Hey, Kira! Venelin here, CEO of BeastBurst Entertainment! Amazing video, sir! Thank you for reviewing our kickstarter campaign. All our intentions when inviting all these content creators were to show we have no "hidden" or malevolent intentions, we invited them to prove we are not scared to be completely open and transparent. You know the story of MMoRPG and Kickstarter better than anyone else. What better way to prove you are not a SCAM if not open your door and prove nothing to hide ? Thank you again ,sir! Wish you good health and best of luck! P.S. All content creators that appeared in our video were asked for approval by seeing the full video and making sure we not presenting them in any way out of context!
@@SystemCrasher113 because of the sheer amount of failed/scam kickstarter mmorpgs he's seen. There are also content creators who are paid to say good stuff about a game. Hence why he's skeptical about this.
These guys need better PR/marketing. As everyone keeps saying, Callum addresses many of the issues on his video but that's because he has exclusive information. The average gamer is more likely to have the same reaction as Kira in this video because they won't know what Callum does.
Yeah, re: not knowing what Callum does... When Kira was talking about using content creators for implied endorsements, my immediate reaction was "They're taking a risk using Callum for it, since he rips into bad games the same way Kira does, so if they screw everything up he'll be right there talking about it already."
Just a little insight into what happened: All of us were flown out there to take a look at the game. They wanted constructive feedback, and gave us access to an Alpha version of the game. It was very buggy, was very limited, but was a real, playable game. All of us, including Callum, gave very harsh criticisms in a number of different areas - which obviously weren't included in the Kickstarter backing video. Under no circumstance were we ever quiet about what we thought. We were flown out to tell them what they were doing wrong, based off of a history of playing games that do an abundance of things wrong. The Kickstarter video definitely doesn't reflect our impressions or thoughts - we sat and talked for over 2 hours, meaning 99% of our conversation is missing, as is the context for what we were saying in each segment used. As for endorsing the game publicly - I know both Josh and I have chosen not to attach our names to the game. We spoke about that at the time. I'm more than happy, personally, to stream the game and continue covering it in updates. I've seen that the devs do genuinely have a passion for the game - whether that culminates in a cohesive product one day remains to be seen.
@@speed0spank We never went there with the expectation of being in their promotional video. We went there to be a part of their "round table" discussion, and to critique their game, which we had done, and is uploaded to their channel. If they had told us they wanted us flown out to appear in their advertising for the game, I believe Josh would've said no, as I would have as well.
For context, and this is after watching Callum Upton's video on this game, I've learned that the MMO has already had something in their range of 1-2 million invested, and further investment is coming from private investors. It appears that the Kickstarter's entire point is to prove to the investors that there is actual demand and support for the MMO but is not actually in any way connected to the funding because of course the sum it's asking for is trivial. Have a look at Callum's video sometime, Kira. I'd love to hear your thoughts with that context added.
1-2 million is trivial for making an MMO, even AA single player games end up costing more to make. Everquest 1 without considering inflation cost around 3 million to make and when it came out it was super basic.
@CoderWilll I don't disagree, but there's a huge gulf between trying to drum up 200k from backers and having 2 million seed money with potentially more coming in from a set of investors. I don't know really, this is just what I gathered from what Callum Upton explained. It is however, a different context than having no investment whatsoever and trying to raise peanuts on Kickstarter.
Behind the scenes is just some people working on an MMO. Having offices and actually working on the game doesn’t mean it’ll deliver and won’t be a scam or complete failure Doing a 160k kickstarter for an MMO is a huge red flag
@@HansFriedrich532The game isn't being funded by this Kickstarter, it's to gauge interest and promote it. Upwards of a million has already gone into the development.
It's also done by someone who spent many hours with the actual team at their actual site doing real-life consulting. The praise was genuine, not paid for.
@@robertpop9996 "This was part of the clause, when I was consulting, that I could still talk freely, openly and candidly about this game and obviously my thoughts around it." It doesn''t sound like much of an NDA according to Callum. Take his word for whatever it's worth to you.
@@WalkerRileyMCNot sure if we watched the same video. For me Callum’s video felt nothing like an ad, more like an inside look with some positives and some negatives, but mostly just general stuff that’s neither. For me it felt mostly neutral and didn’t really make me more or less interested in the game.
Kira - it looks like the devs have similar approach and ethics like those of Mandragora game you've liked. Also - while you've rejected devs offer to be involved - Callum Upton and Josh Strife Hayes got involved as consultants. They've seen the studio, got access to their code and Callum will be using their in house solution with his own game.
@@yaldabaoth2 so are you saying they sold themselves out? For what? What reason they would have to completely destroy their credibility supporting the scam? I would understand if they went for Star Citizen kind of money - not indie Bulgarian one 🤣
@@guresuzume "Sell" no. But if you are in the marketing material for something, you give up all neutrality and should not be trusted as objective. This is what influencers do, not critics.
@@yaldabaoth2 He never claimed to be neutral. He gave full disclosure in the video about his bias, which is what you do when you have a conflict of interest. That does not mean you become an influencer or unable/unwilling to criticize a product - critics have conflict of interest every now and then, but you inform so people can take it into account. As a consultant he gets paid regardless of how the game does, he has no vested interested financially masking a bad product.
The devs could easily address the concerns around perceived creator endorsement by including a quick intro to that section... just something explaining that the studio had brought creators out to meet the team & give them feedback. It would help to give some context to the comments that they make too, since many looking at the Kickstarter may not know who the creators are.& why they are talking about things like networking. Having seen Callum's video first I get the impression that this is a studio trying to use Kickstarter the way it was originally intended (to engage a community in the development of a game/product, rather than looking to crowdfunding as the sole funding source, as KS has become)... they just need to be clear in explaining the who/what/why/when/how in their video. I get the feeling they've fallen into the old 'assumed knowledge' trap you get in long-term projects... they are so deep into development that they are always interacting with people familiar with the game, so they've forgotten that they need to explain things from scratch for the rest of us. Happens to us all!
Old school mmos used to have a lot of single player side activities with the main activity being focused on the group but nowdays it feels like they shifted to make more and more main activities into single player activities while abandoning the side activities. I remember when my friends weren't online to play, I just did the side activities while waiting for them until we were ready to progress together because it was just easier and faster to progress together. Now it's just way more efficient to do most of the progress solo, so you play 40 hours until you would be ready to finally group up with your friends to progress together. Getting someone new to the genre to play and enjoy the modern mmo is nearly impossible.
I totally get the idea of mobile versions for games like this from the company perspective and I'm not naive enough to believe a game can't be good if it does have a mobile version. However, I think there will always be concessions as soon as you introduce a mobile version to a game. The simple fact is that they will need to make everything you can do on PC also be doable on mobile. A PC has an entire keyboard to work with and much larger real estate on the screen. You simply cannot replicate this on mobile, not fully at least. Albion online was fun for as long as I played it, a month or two, and that game having a mobile version didn't take away from the fun of it so it's totally possible to make a fun game that runs on PC and mobile but you can also clearly see where Albion clearly has aspects of the game with mobile in mind. Not immediately a bad thing for me since I didn't mind how the game played but it can be an issue for others. I just think a PC game with a mobile version is always going to feel different than if the game had a PC version only and I think it's valid to be concerned about that.
I think the word you were looking for is endorsement from the content creators. It might be good that if the CCs provide their own videos on this game then those should be linked on the kickstarter page for further context. It's a fair point you raise. It could be seen as trying to associate brands; to give one (lesser known) entity a positive view from people who don't know them/their brand due to an association with another brand that is well known and presumably more respected within this area (mmorpgs). I'll be keeping an eye out for this game and will test it out when an opportunity arises.
Callum Upton seems to think they just want to prove investors that they are relevant. This amount of money is nothing for their project but proves there is a place for them in the this market.
60 people is a lot of staff to pay - asking for $200k only? Something is off, 50 of those must have submitted a single asset and are now counted as staff.
I'm not really seeing the problem here tbh. These guys seem professional and comitted to being transparent, something I would expect this channel to appreciate more. Say about the game itself what you will, it doesn't personally appeal to me, but it's giving a way better impression than any of those MMOs spearheaded by deluded egomaniacs that spend more time blogging than developing.
@@infernaloverkill4896 I wouldn't go that far, perhaps he was just tired or smth and didn't feel like putting more effort into research for the video or smth. It happens. I just think he's not giving these particular devs enough credit.
I think you can take Callum being in the video as him promoting the game. Because he has released a video himself telling everyone that he likes this project.
Damn Kira... I really want to see this game succeed, but man you're always the voice of reason and pragmatism... Hats off to you man, your integrity is (painfully sometimes) undisputed.
Unless they pay him the right amount of money to sponsor a video of course, then he’ll happily accept the money and run an ad at the start of a video saying how great their game is.
btw some of those creators were hired as consultants, and do actively give feedback for the direction/mechanics of the game. The video does have the banner on the top "we do listen to feedback from critics." I think it is less malevolence, and more "hey we're not an internal echo chamber, we're listening to people you trust., and the company/game is real" The kickstarter is less for funds and more a proof of interest for investors ( for the real funds).
It actually does literally say that and outline multiple other reasons they have a kickstarter in the "Why kickstarter?" section of the kickstarter.. Yah they're not the best at PR, they expected people to read before making conclusions.🤷♂ @@speed0spank
Whatever way you look at it those guys were paid and used to promote the kickstarter. They were a huge part of this promotional video, and thus have a massive conflict of interest in terms of them being claimed to be critical of the game.
You are highly misunderstanding..so much. No one is saying the game is good. Not us watching the video, not the paid consultants. What is being said is that the game is actually being developed and that they are taking input on gameplay from people whose opinion on gameplay we are familiar with.@@learntooilpaint
Damned if you do, damned if you don't. If they'd not had anyone come and see the studio in they'd just be some unknown studio that might not even exist. I think the real question for me is, why pay for a free-to-play game that doesn't need your money to be finished? I think they should have focused more on what they can do with more funding to improve on what they have currently.
For as much as I would love this to be a success, the devs are aiming for an extremely small and amready saturated niche. Good luck to them, they will need it.
appreciate your skeptical view , and agree that yea even with the best of intentions including the well known critics of the genre feels a bit pandering . however i would encourage you to atleast get into the game and try it out , we can collectively postulate on all the reasons why mmorpg might not succeed , however what we need most is the pure crits on gameplay design , direct examples of when and where a design decision fails or has unforseen consequences , to collectively try and fix those issues for all future games of the genre we care about .
Thanks for highlighting this game mate, looks great. I 100% thought this was going to be a scam highlight given the video length but it looks like they're giving it a solid go
i really don't like Josh and Callum promoting this kickstarter mmorpg. i enjoy them being neutral. but this clearly is a promotion. if they wanted it to be a promotion or not.
Personally I prefer the 2010s era of MMOs more than the early 2000s era. The big 2 I think of are The Old Republic and FF14. FF14 for how robust and content rich the game is, especially for people like me that don’t especially care for the combat but ADORE the gathering and crafting systems baked into the game’s engine. Old Republic, meanwhile, does something I really appreciate where they treat the game like a proper game. Fully voice acted…eight wholly unique and varied campaigns with the ability to shape your story as you see fit…and a greater reliance on your own story being what matters beyond the individual interactions with other players.
The Old Republic went really too far with the single player stuff imo though. I usually play mmos with my husband and when Eternal Thrones came out there was single player instance after single player instance. It was like "well thanks for walking from that instance to this instance with me, I'll see you in two hours."
@@TheCandystripedlegs sure, the dlc got a bit too reliant on single player, but I’d say for every game like Old Republic there’s 100 MMOs that leave you alone and hope you make friends.
First thing I learned when starting my career as translator specialized in video games? The mobile gaming market is larger than PC + all consoles combined. And from what I've been translating, I can confirm this. I don't like this as PC gamer and old NES first-hour-fan, but it's the truth.
Yes, there was a video focusing on Blizzard and the whole "do you not have phones?" thing. In an annual statement they showed that most of their profit came from Diablo Online microtransactions, and some staggering amount of their player base being in Asia... on mobile. Us PC 'masterrace' fans don't realise the huge market changes that have already happened. Where the money is, that is where the company will direct it's attention.
I dunno, flying Josh Strife Hayes and Callum Upton over to the studio as consultants for this game lends a lot of credibility to it IMHO. They've seen the books and level of funding that's gone into it so far, they've gotten to know the team, and they've even been given access to the backend and the code. I'm not saying this game is gonna be a grand success, but it's certainly not a scam that's going nowhere. I did decide to back it even though I'm usually a solo MMO player (and this game is group focused) because I like what they're doing here. It's a donation, not a purchase. The game will be free-to-play and I'm aware of that fact, but I still wanted to toss some cash in the pot to show players are interested because that's the entire purpose of this crowdfunding effort (not to actually fund, but to gauge interest). I saw on a Kickstarter update today that they announced the playtest this weekend and I'm excited to get to check it out even if it turns out it's not my cup of tea.
There are tons of ways for investors to gauge feasibility of a project that don't involve kickstarter, tons of games being made right now without going through the kickstarter charade, which is mainly used as a lottery ticket to try and cash some more money in this case, no point in making a crowdfunded project if you are investor backed instead. Having said that, getting reputable content creators to act as consultants is both a good and a sly move at the same time, since is very difficult for somebody to talk shit about their client/employer you know. Bottom line is that the game still looks pretty bad and i'm honestly worried that this is the result of a 60 people investor backed game company.
@@manuelrapino5917 I think kickstarters can be an excellent way to gauge interest. Well, they used to be... too many people have been burned, especially by this genre. I've been rather lucky because I have backed frequently (both video and tabletop) since 7 Days to Die back in the day and have never been burned by a Kickstarter. Knock on wood. The only game I've ever been burned by was Identity and it was outside of Kickstarter and a dumb move on my part. Anywho, I understand the skepticism here but I think people might be a little TOO burned on this topic and are jumping the gun. You've got people in this very comment section calling the game a scam (clearly isn't) or incorrectly thinking they are trying to fund development with that very low number on Kickstarter. The thing that might hurt this game the most is past history with other projects, not due to anything they're doing wrong themselves. I'm curious, are you going to try it out this weekend? That's gonna be the best thing for it, people at least checking it out to see if we like what's being made. And if we don't, we say so. Both with our words and our money (as in, withholding it).
@@manuelrapino5917 I just wrote a (friendly) three paragraph response to you and RUclips's stupid new comment gobbling algorithm deleted it. I want to cry. Ugh, this problem is getting so bad. It's like 50/50 in regards to whether or not a comment will pass the test and stick.
@@manuelrapino5917 But basically I'll leave out all the other stuff I wrote and just get to the question I had in the end: Will you be testing the game out this weekend? I think the best shot it has is getting people in to play it so we can make a decision about whether or not we like the direction it's going in. And if we don't, we let them know and see if changes follow or we pass on it entirely.
@@MadameCirce yeah youtube is getting wild with the comments XD. My point was not really about this game in particular, which is a totally subjective thing, it was more about the fact that we as consumers need to start being a bit more mindful about how we spend our money in my opinion. Not everyone should "have the chance" to make games, or art or anything else just because they feel like it. If we start giving money where money is due, and stop the perorder craze, like in the old days, then the median quality of the products that we will get is bound to get higher, otherwise we will continue seeing this dilution in quality that's rampant in art and media.
I seriously think Callum, Josh, and Stix will regret appearing in this promo video in the future. I've not checked the site but do the developers state clearly that the crowdfunding is to proof to the investors that there's interest in the game? Why does Callum need to explain this in his video as some commenters mentioned here? They should outright say it in the Kickstarter page. As someone watching this promo video without any contexts, I cannot but think that the appearance of my favourite content creators is to give their general approval of this game because this is how the video seems to imply.
Neither Josh nor I have openly endorsed the game. We played it, gave thoughts and opinions, but that is the extent of our involvement. I’ll continue to cover it sure, but as an outsider looking in.
@@MMOByte I am glad to hear that. However, I am afraid anyone watching the video will see it as an endorsement due to how the developers presented the video. It is implied heavily which is why I worry for you guys if something is to go wrong in the future.
@@oldnoobgamer90 Oh I totally understand. I'm not trying to deflect from that fact - I'm well aware of what it looks like. Unfortunately, no matter what we say, they were allowed to present our chat in whatever way they want since we were paid to discuss the game and critique it. The critique was just left out of their promotional material haha.
Given the state of gaming in general lately combined with the fact that I now have 2 kids, it would take something insanely massive to get me into an MMO. What looks like a WoW clone isn't going to do it for me. And frankly the entire idea of "F2P" basically kills everything it touches. Maybe after we've all had our mandatory brain chips and can experience "full-dive" style gameplay... but I hate the first part of that so much that I don't think I'll be able to do the latter.
It's sad to see how cynical Kira has become, to the point where he wont' even cover OR play indie MMO projects. That was some of my favorite content from him too. I'm at least really happy to see that Callum actually still cares enough to check them out and vet them. I think this game will get released and is definitely not a scam. What is Kira's criteria at this point for vetting MMO's? He has none. He even said in this video that they have done this Kickstarter the best possible way imaginable, and yet he still does not endorse this at all. I've been feeling this way for a while. I think it's just an unsub for me.
Callum Upton said in his video that the reason for this kickstarter was to attract more investors, the sum of 200 000 would obviously not help very much, but getting the attention of more investors will.
So say that is all true and correct..... They raise the money from the Kickstarter, BUT that does not draw in any more investors... Thus the point of the Kickstarter would be failure!! They would not be able to create the game they believe they could without more investment. So that game never gets made and all the people disappointed and left holding the bag per say are going to be all the people who took part in the Kickstarter. And another point is you mention Callum's video in the way that information was explained or more context was given... But there is the very real reality that there is No crossover for a huge amount of gamers.. so those people may only ever see the Kickstarter video and never see any of the other videos from the RUclips creators or posts they make on some other social media platform!!??!!
At this point if people are still gullible enough to believe in this stuff they deserve to have their money thrown into the void. Agree that the guys are not necessarily nefarious, but they're selling you on a dream that even a fully funded Kickstarter prob can't deliver on with the best of intentions.
Endorsement is the word you’re looking for re the other content creators.. and you’re right. This was a poor decision. By all parties. It was all so cringy.
mobile might be played but it can't be a mmo their only point is skill rotation, buffs debuffs etc and that means more than the current light arpgs who are designed for mobile too with their 4 skills builds I don't think that's what mmo players are looking for so they're making a game for no one
You dont need the old school idea of 57 active abilities to be fun though. Most MMOs I've played, 95% of the time you're using the same 4 or 5 abilities and rarely the others unless you're in some super specific bit of content
Seriously, I think nowadays if you wanna create an MMO, the most viable choice is to go through the Minecraft/Terraria/Palworld route, get some seed funding through early access while giving your players to run their own private servers and get them hooked on the gameplay loop while you figure out how much funds you need to inject on your server infrastructure to maintain MMO, and then what kind of story you want to tell within your game. Even Palworld's spending close to $100k/yr on server infrastructure, and they're not even running an MMO.
Making an MMO is like building a house: you can have a solid foundation, you can put up perfectly aligned walls/ doors/ windows, but it is the game's full launch and it is up to the PLAYERS to build the ROOF. Nothing else sadly matters, cause even if it is perfect all below that... does it matter if you tuck in for bed at night and it is snowing on your face in the middle of winter, all your stuff get soaked cause it rained? It is all good when the weather is clear and good but that only lasts so long. IF the MMO could go in the direction [roof down] it would have a better chance. It is just the way the technology works - the current limits - no one has shown a stable product working backwards (as far as I know). Good people fail all the time, Bad people will say what ever to take your money and it is just hard to know.
If I may, Kira, you pointed out that 200k for a mmo kickstarted is quite iffy, but these guys have been developing the game for years and have put quite a lot of money on it, so I believe the kickstarter was made to raise awareness on it, more than for raising money. As many have pointed out, Josh, Callum and others have been involved, and I personally trust them , but putting blind faith on anyone is a bad idea nowadays. So yeah, I believe you are right to be wary on such projects. That said, a year or so ago I gave some money to the project, because I could do it and the team sounded trustworthy and I wanted to help, but as you said, no one can say for sure that such game will be successful. Good video as always. Keep up the good work.
That would be better as a sandbox with private server fuctionality, similar to palworld or lost ark... no 1 has time for classic mmo's any more where you spend 10 hours 2 find a party to do a 2hr ish task...
I generally trust josh's opinion... however, I don't like them using him in the KS video. I assume he got paid for his consultancy and maybe the contract had some wording in it that allows them to use his feedback in this way, but it feels a bit of icky to me.
Why? I’m actually just interested in why you think that? Does he need to immediately support any Kickstarter mmo that doesn’t happen to be a scam? Why? I mean he’s right about them including mmo creators in the pitch, the creators obviously are giving their honest opinions but that’s not the point, the developers are most definitely including them in the pitch to create trust in the game when it isn’t actually deserved. They’re also doing this because Kickstarter mmos have the worst reputation of any game related kickstarters. The game is selling packages for $5000 man this doesn’t indicate to you that they are trying to create trust for a reason? Suddenly the presence of Josh or Callum makes you more likely to give them 5k so they can hit their goal. I’ve seen every mmo creator on here blindly support this game having Kira bring everyone back to reality and remind them that even the Kickstarter mmos that weren’t scams never released because making an mmo is insanely hard is a good thing.
Seeing Josh and Callum in a promotional video for a MMO makes my first reaction wonder if they are shilling for this company. I'm definitely going to check out their channels to see what they have to say about the game, but on the surface it makes me question things.
I was hired to consult on some basic systems, not promote the game, which is why I'm not promoting the game. The footage they used was of my visit and discussing the systems they had made.
My concern over any MMO or, indeed, any open world game being even partially crowdfunded is that they all too often ask for too little. The reason for that is that they need a lot of cash, yes, but they don't want to ask for so much that it fails to reach their goal and so the crowdfunding fails. They choose Kickstarter because the fact that it is an "all or nothing" platform, it gives a little more credibility to their proiect - that they're not just doing a quick cash grab to get whatever they can get their hands on and that they're being serious. The fact that in this case they seem to be quite well advanced in the development process suggests they've had some decent funding sources in the past, which may be a small red flag in that they've either lost that source or they've burned through what money they were previously able to raise.
No that's usually solo devs or people scraping their friends together to form a company. A lot of these types of fund-raisers are a tool to secure more funding. Showing a big investor that you have $200k shows them you can make and handle large amounts of money so they're safe to give you more
I mean Kira just give the cautious response. He says that they did the kickstarter pitch basically the best way possible. But he recommends to be cautious anyway and he shares his reasoning behind this. I think Kiras reasoning is good, there hasn't been good MMOs born from kickstarter at all. Even the biggest budget and brain companies fail at MMOs, so why trust this indie studio? Why trust, when you can just wait and see how it goes? Also big question, why are these people doing a kickstarter in the first place? 200k won't give them much. For a team of 60 people, that's probably less than 1 month of salary. And if they use this kickstarter to get some marketing and rumor going, then I'm not sure if that's morally the right way of doing it, even if it works.
@@crankpatate3303 this isnt a moral issue,its not the company doing kickstarter cuz they want it,its industry standard to use kickstarter to gauge interest by investors
@@zoonal-gg nonsense, there are other tools to gauge investment feasibility that don't involve kickstarter, tons of games being made right now without being on kickstarter.
I feel like a big problem is there is a huge gap for Single-Player/Co-Op games with MMO like progression, and that's why so many people play MMOs alone. I for example play retail wow mostly alone outside of some keys and stuff and tbh if a huge sandbox fantasy game came out with the same type of progression came out i'd be all over it
The game looks SUSPICIOUSLY like WoW. The studio is called "Beast burst Entertainment" with a familiar logo too.. Really? How can anyone take this seriously?
i'm sure this MMO will see the light, like every other crowd funded MMO made by people with no coding or software development experience. HOW CAN IT FAIL AM I RIGHT?
While I am tired of these type of RPG MMOs, because they look so identical and uninspired, I disagree with the criticism. They may do bad marketing decisions like putting in RUclipsrs into their videos, but that does not reflect on the quality of the game. Everyone, especially people like them are desperate for attention, because attention directly translates into money.
Yeah, this more a nonbrainer than anything: Callum and Josh think it's not a scam, so it most likely isn't. But making a good MMORPG is incredibly hard and resiource intensive. It would be naive to expect success. This Kickstarter is a highrisk investment. And if you're okay with that, there is no reason to not fund it if you want yet another overambitious MMORPG try to be the one which actually doesn't fail and is fun to play. Chances are low but still better than a lottery ticket.
@@cassolmedia yeah callum has the info from going in, being paid to advise it and even testing it so has more info and a feel for if the game would come out and be as outlined.... Kira has the view of the every day person, its great to see both sides, I do hope he comes up with a response to callums video on this game too and shares his view on that too
Won't shame the man cuz bag does need to be gotten- but the irony of going from all that discourse to then shilling ourt gamersupps, even if he does legit respek them as a product, is nonetheless funny.
Not gonna try it, not gonna investigate at all, just say "mmo, must be scam" what lazy bad take kira. Check out Callum Upton's video for more context. For your information, the Kickstarter isn't to fund the whole game; it's how the company demonstrates interest to investors. Maybe do your homework before condemning
Yea when I saw Callum (whose views I generally) it seemed like his presence lent credibility to this game and implied a co-sign as you mentioned, which may not have been his intent.
Ever since Palworld kinda gave us the litmus test of how expensive servers are to run, I feel some type of way, knowing that anyone hoping to launch an MMO who doesn’t have this metric accounted for, is kinda asking a lot from the general public if your product overperforms and they can’t pay the maintenance fees. Microsoft spent money to keep Palworld afloat… who’s going to foot the bill here?
Palworld is a terrible litmus test for server cost as its horribly optimized to run as a multipler game. Servers don't usually take 10-16gb to run what palworld runs.
This reminds me of Runes of Magic, the game they are making looks so much like they are trying to make a World of Warcraft look alike. All the assets look so similar to WoW. Looking at the icons of the races and classes in the Kickstarter also look a lot like the WoW ones. They are clearly trying to bait Warcraft fans. Would not be surprised to hear the old saying of "This game is going to be a WoW killer". If the trailer of the game was shown to me without mentioning the name of the game I would assume it was World of Warcraft.
Everybody has different tastes. Everybody is susceptible to some form of corruption. YTers are strangers. A video doesn’t tell me how the game actually feels. Sugary words don’t get me gameplay testing. The problem with Kickstarter campaigns is it’s a big “Trust me bro” situation. You don’t enter strange vans on the promise of candy. You don’t give developers money without some hands on proof the game is worth it. Anything can be faked in a video. Ubisoft has been doing it for decades to resounding success and sighs from those who got duped. If you can support something somebody else promises just off faith and videos? More power to you. Taking risks sometimes leads to great reward. The problem is, that’s a very rare occurrence and more often than not, you end up disappointed. I won’t throw a penny at you until you put something in my hands that shows me what I have to look forward to. Devs used to do it in the form of demos, alphas and betas as a way to gain support. Obviously the culture has changed and “trust me” is now as valid as actually giving you proof in the form of hands on testing and having YTers hype your products. I don’t trust YTers. I don’t know them. I know what they do on their videos, but I find that a lot of YTers seem to be getting busted for very corrupt and criminal things a lot these days. Still a stranger waving a bag of candy at you from an open van door honestly. Being a fan of content and knowing who the person is behind the screen are two WAAAAAAAY different things. Unfortunately, I have a feeling that a lot of people these days would get in the van if a YTer waved candy at them. It’s a sad state of affairs. One of which has led to many displeasing results. “Trust me bro” culture is strong these days.
They also said you can pay a monthly sub to be a tester for their game. Imagine playing a company to alpha/beta test their game, used to be the other way around where they pay QA testers. Still I've been following this game for quite a while now. Will wait and see if the game will be released.
8 месяцев назад+3
Hello Kira, my boyfriend works there and I know that it is not SCAM, but a good visit to the game, see you. Follow the new content shared by BB Entertainment, cheers.
always hilarious with devs claiming overmonetized f2p mmo as "old-school", get real if the game was going to be truly old-school it would be subscription based with zero mtx
Looks a bit cookie cutter in all aspects, I wish it had a component that look considerably better than what we have with other mmos, like combat or crafting. Massive potential though
I was listening to this without watching so I got really confused when I heard Callum Upton’s voice all of a sudden, I thought RUclips started playing a different video. But yeah, hearing people like this especially Josh Strife Hayes, really does make it feel like an endorsement and if I just saw that video with those people I would think this game was legitimate and good.
Nobody should have to go to Callum to get info about this Kickstarter. It is the game's responsibility to explain that stuff. Maybe swap out the creator clips and actually explain your plan to the people you're asking for money.
@@speed0spank sure, thats fair, but still .. as a reporter you do your research .. it was assumed instead of done .. the research, I'd argue. I expect a bit more from Kira tbh. Still, your point is correct about that it is mainly the games responsibility to clear things up.
I don't fully understand why it's always the MMO these people want to try, the hardest possible type of game to get right and "yah we want 100k to do it"
I'm sorry but the game just looks ugly. You can go for "old" aesthetics, have them in whatever style you want including cartoonish, but this isn't it. What bothers me the most is definitely shadows. In most shots it looks like there's simply none, and in the few there are, it's just not enough.
this isone of the first times ive ever disagreed with your take. they have millions of $ sinking into the project already. and the playable pre-alpha has a fun loop. the only caution i bring people is that it's definitely more geared towards those who like late 90s/early 00s style mmos. it will not appeal to those who only like new wave mmos.
Nothing you wrote here guarantees that a) the game will even see a full release; b) will be successful when it releases. Even when a project is developed by a well-meaning and at least somewhat competent team, it does not prevent the opportunity of failure. Just because Callum Upton places his trust in the project, does not mean that it won't join the graveyard of Kickstarter MMO's
@@IdleCommentator my comment obviously is addressing his misinformed points. it's kinda of obvious? ^ ^' i dont really care about influencers much tbh (i didn't mention them). speaking only to the misinformation about funds and if the product has a better chance at being viable (am a dev myself, can gauge things fairly well) also i do state it seems like it'll be a more niche game. it's got the oldschool way of going about things, which i happen to like, and that's the audience type it'll capture.
mobile versions are great. I can hook my bluetooth keyboard and mouse up and play literally anywhere and let's be real, the performance of these machines is not notably worse than laptops at this point.
Hey, Kira! Venelin here, CEO of BeastBurst Entertainment! Amazing video, sir! Thank you for reviewing our kickstarter campaign. All our intentions when inviting all these content creators were to show we have no "hidden" or malevolent intentions, we invited them to prove we are not scared to be completely open and transparent. You know the story of MMoRPG and Kickstarter better than anyone else. What better way to prove you are not a SCAM if not open your door and prove nothing to hide ?
Thank you again ,sir!
Wish you good health and best of luck!
P.S.
All content creators that appeared in our video were asked for approval by seeing the full video and making sure we not presenting them in any way out of context!
All content creators in promo video are locally sourced and free range. Best of luck to you guys. =)
Hope it a hit
Yeah I don't see why he is so upset?
It's not my kind of game but it looks genuine and that's already rare today. That's why I fully support this project
@@SystemCrasher113 because of the sheer amount of failed/scam kickstarter mmorpgs he's seen. There are also content creators who are paid to say good stuff about a game. Hence why he's skeptical about this.
These guys need better PR/marketing. As everyone keeps saying, Callum addresses many of the issues on his video but that's because he has exclusive information. The average gamer is more likely to have the same reaction as Kira in this video because they won't know what Callum does.
@@azuz2008 *25 minute video. Like, five minutes longer than this one.
Yeah, re: not knowing what Callum does... When Kira was talking about using content creators for implied endorsements, my immediate reaction was "They're taking a risk using Callum for it, since he rips into bad games the same way Kira does, so if they screw everything up he'll be right there talking about it already."
No matter how good Callum's reputation is, this is *entirely irrelevant* to me as a potential backer if his words are *sponsored* by the studio.
@@azuz2008Callum also said he's paid himself to go there.
@@CainXVII He's IN the marketing material, bro. He's left critic territory and joined influencer level. This was a big mistake, paid or not.
Just a little insight into what happened:
All of us were flown out there to take a look at the game. They wanted constructive feedback, and gave us access to an Alpha version of the game. It was very buggy, was very limited, but was a real, playable game. All of us, including Callum, gave very harsh criticisms in a number of different areas - which obviously weren't included in the Kickstarter backing video. Under no circumstance were we ever quiet about what we thought. We were flown out to tell them what they were doing wrong, based off of a history of playing games that do an abundance of things wrong.
The Kickstarter video definitely doesn't reflect our impressions or thoughts - we sat and talked for over 2 hours, meaning 99% of our conversation is missing, as is the context for what we were saying in each segment used.
As for endorsing the game publicly - I know both Josh and I have chosen not to attach our names to the game. We spoke about that at the time. I'm more than happy, personally, to stream the game and continue covering it in updates. I've seen that the devs do genuinely have a passion for the game - whether that culminates in a cohesive product one day remains to be seen.
Bump
Being in their promotional video is tying yourself to the game though whether you view it that way or not.
@@speed0spank We never went there with the expectation of being in their promotional video. We went there to be a part of their "round table" discussion, and to critique their game, which we had done, and is uploaded to their channel. If they had told us they wanted us flown out to appear in their advertising for the game, I believe Josh would've said no, as I would have as well.
Thanks for context, this really needs to be pinned. @Kira ?
That's wild, but this is also coming from the guy who thought Echocalypse was a good game and totally wasn't paid to say that.
This seems more like a long shot than a scam. Best of luck to the dev team, I really hope it works out.
I mean how would it? They're asking for a measly $200k. We've been here so many times already
"assume it's a donation" is the best advice to get from this
For context, and this is after watching Callum Upton's video on this game, I've learned that the MMO has already had something in their range of 1-2 million invested, and further investment is coming from private investors. It appears that the Kickstarter's entire point is to prove to the investors that there is actual demand and support for the MMO but is not actually in any way connected to the funding because of course the sum it's asking for is trivial.
Have a look at Callum's video sometime, Kira. I'd love to hear your thoughts with that context added.
1-2 million is trivial for making an MMO, even AA single player games end up costing more to make. Everquest 1 without considering inflation cost around 3 million to make and when it came out it was super basic.
@CoderWilll I don't disagree, but there's a huge gulf between trying to drum up 200k from backers and having 2 million seed money with potentially more coming in from a set of investors. I don't know really, this is just what I gathered from what Callum Upton explained. It is however, a different context than having no investment whatsoever and trying to raise peanuts on Kickstarter.
@@CoderWilll Actually, Callum said that it's much more than that, but because he wasn't sure if he could say the real number, he said well over 1-2mil
there is ALWAYS demand to make another mmo; there is RARELY demand to keep playing it after its out.
I always though using kickstarter to "show investors that there is enough demand" is stupid.
Callum upton made a video about this. He had responded to their queries and seen behind the scenes.
Interesting to see a different take
Behind the scenes is just some people working on an MMO. Having offices and actually working on the game doesn’t mean it’ll deliver and won’t be a scam or complete failure
Doing a 160k kickstarter for an MMO is a huge red flag
@@HansFriedrich532 behind the scenes is also a ton of traditional funding, if you believe callum at all, as your comment seems to support.
@@HansFriedrich532The game isn't being funded by this Kickstarter, it's to gauge interest and promote it. Upwards of a million has already gone into the development.
@@HansFriedrich532 they have a lot of the funding - the kickstarter itself is probably supposed to help secure more funding from investors.
couple other people pointing it out but its worth watching Callums video on this for another perspective
My issue with Callum's video is it's a twenty minute long ad for the game.....it doesn't really get into the game itself.
It's also done by someone who spent many hours with the actual team at their actual site doing real-life consulting. The praise was genuine, not paid for.
@@WalkerRileyMC He probably signed an NDA
@@robertpop9996 "This was part of the clause, when I was consulting, that I could still talk freely, openly and candidly about this game and obviously my thoughts around it."
It doesn''t sound like much of an NDA according to Callum. Take his word for whatever it's worth to you.
@@WalkerRileyMCNot sure if we watched the same video. For me Callum’s video felt nothing like an ad, more like an inside look with some positives and some negatives, but mostly just general stuff that’s neither. For me it felt mostly neutral and didn’t really make me more or less interested in the game.
Kira - it looks like the devs have similar approach and ethics like those of Mandragora game you've liked.
Also - while you've rejected devs offer to be involved - Callum Upton and Josh Strife Hayes got involved as consultants. They've seen the studio, got access to their code and Callum will be using their in house solution with his own game.
That's why I respect Kira and not those others. They've made themselves accomplices.
@@yaldabaoth2I don't think you understood the comment at all brotherman
@@yaldabaoth2 so are you saying they sold themselves out? For what? What reason they would have to completely destroy their credibility supporting the scam?
I would understand if they went for Star Citizen kind of money - not indie Bulgarian one 🤣
@@guresuzume "Sell" no. But if you are in the marketing material for something, you give up all neutrality and should not be trusted as objective. This is what influencers do, not critics.
@@yaldabaoth2 He never claimed to be neutral. He gave full disclosure in the video about his bias, which is what you do when you have a conflict of interest. That does not mean you become an influencer or unable/unwilling to criticize a product - critics have conflict of interest every now and then, but you inform so people can take it into account. As a consultant he gets paid regardless of how the game does, he has no vested interested financially masking a bad product.
The devs could easily address the concerns around perceived creator endorsement by including a quick intro to that section... just something explaining that the studio had brought creators out to meet the team & give them feedback. It would help to give some context to the comments that they make too, since many looking at the Kickstarter may not know who the creators are.& why they are talking about things like networking.
Having seen Callum's video first I get the impression that this is a studio trying to use Kickstarter the way it was originally intended (to engage a community in the development of a game/product, rather than looking to crowdfunding as the sole funding source, as KS has become)... they just need to be clear in explaining the who/what/why/when/how in their video.
I get the feeling they've fallen into the old 'assumed knowledge' trap you get in long-term projects... they are so deep into development that they are always interacting with people familiar with the game, so they've forgotten that they need to explain things from scratch for the rest of us. Happens to us all!
Old school mmos used to have a lot of single player side activities with the main activity being focused on the group but nowdays it feels like they shifted to make more and more main activities into single player activities while abandoning the side activities.
I remember when my friends weren't online to play, I just did the side activities while waiting for them until we were ready to progress together because it was just easier and faster to progress together.
Now it's just way more efficient to do most of the progress solo, so you play 40 hours until you would be ready to finally group up with your friends to progress together. Getting someone new to the genre to play and enjoy the modern mmo is nearly impossible.
I totally get the idea of mobile versions for games like this from the company perspective and I'm not naive enough to believe a game can't be good if it does have a mobile version.
However, I think there will always be concessions as soon as you introduce a mobile version to a game. The simple fact is that they will need to make everything you can do on PC also be doable on mobile. A PC has an entire keyboard to work with and much larger real estate on the screen. You simply cannot replicate this on mobile, not fully at least.
Albion online was fun for as long as I played it, a month or two, and that game having a mobile version didn't take away from the fun of it so it's totally possible to make a fun game that runs on PC and mobile but you can also clearly see where Albion clearly has aspects of the game with mobile in mind. Not immediately a bad thing for me since I didn't mind how the game played but it can be an issue for others.
I just think a PC game with a mobile version is always going to feel different than if the game had a PC version only and I think it's valid to be concerned about that.
I think the word you were looking for is endorsement from the content creators. It might be good that if the CCs provide their own videos on this game then those should be linked on the kickstarter page for further context. It's a fair point you raise. It could be seen as trying to associate brands; to give one (lesser known) entity a positive view from people who don't know them/their brand due to an association with another brand that is well known and presumably more respected within this area (mmorpgs).
I'll be keeping an eye out for this game and will test it out when an opportunity arises.
Free playtest is this weekend, just FYI in case you really are interested in checking it out. Starts 02/10 at 6pm UTC.
Why are all these RPGs always named "[something] of [something]"? "Tales of Elerium", "Hearts of Wulin", "Scars of Honor"...
Because "World of Warcraft". Also it makes for a nice 3 lettered acronym "xOx".
Yeah it's the WoW or LoL factor. It's cringe and they don't realize they all sound like garbage tier mobile games or poor imitations
It's just a trope in epic fantasy: Game of Thrones, Storm of Swords, Way of Kings, Words of Radiance, Furies of Calderon etc etc
New World should have been named 'New of World'
Ashes of Creation.
Callum Upton seems to think they just want to prove investors that they are relevant. This amount of money is nothing for their project but proves there is a place for them in the this market.
60 people is a lot of staff to pay - asking for $200k only? Something is off, 50 of those must have submitted a single asset and are now counted as staff.
I'm not really seeing the problem here tbh. These guys seem professional and comitted to being transparent, something I would expect this channel to appreciate more. Say about the game itself what you will, it doesn't personally appeal to me, but it's giving a way better impression than any of those MMOs spearheaded by deluded egomaniacs that spend more time blogging than developing.
What do you expect from a guy who makes a living of being cynical and skeptic for the sake of it, i think that's where Kira comes off as dishonest...
@@infernaloverkill4896 I wouldn't go that far, perhaps he was just tired or smth and didn't feel like putting more effort into research for the video or smth. It happens. I just think he's not giving these particular devs enough credit.
I think you can take Callum being in the video as him promoting the game. Because he has released a video himself telling everyone that he likes this project.
Damn Kira... I really want to see this game succeed, but man you're always the voice of reason and pragmatism... Hats off to you man, your integrity is (painfully sometimes) undisputed.
Unless they pay him the right amount of money to sponsor a video of course, then he’ll happily accept the money and run an ad at the start of a video saying how great their game is.
btw some of those creators were hired as consultants, and do actively give feedback for the direction/mechanics of the game. The video does have the banner on the top "we do listen to feedback from critics." I think it is less malevolence, and more "hey we're not an internal echo chamber, we're listening to people you trust., and the company/game is real"
The kickstarter is less for funds and more a proof of interest for investors ( for the real funds).
Seems like they should have had less clips of popular RUclipsrs and more clips explaining the point of their Kickstarter.
It actually does literally say that and outline multiple other reasons they have a kickstarter in the "Why kickstarter?" section of the kickstarter..
Yah they're not the best at PR, they expected people to read before making conclusions.🤷♂ @@speed0spank
Whatever way you look at it those guys were paid and used to promote the kickstarter. They were a huge part of this promotional video, and thus have a massive conflict of interest in terms of them being claimed to be critical of the game.
You are highly misunderstanding..so much. No one is saying the game is good. Not us watching the video, not the paid consultants. What is being said is that the game is actually being developed and that they are taking input on gameplay from people whose opinion on gameplay we are familiar with.@@learntooilpaint
I did not expect to see Callum there
I predict the graphics of this MMO will throw off a lot of potential players in 2024.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't. If they'd not had anyone come and see the studio in they'd just be some unknown studio that might not even exist.
I think the real question for me is, why pay for a free-to-play game that doesn't need your money to be finished? I think they should have focused more on what they can do with more funding to improve on what they have currently.
For as much as I would love this to be a success, the devs are aiming for an extremely small and amready saturated niche.
Good luck to them, they will need it.
appreciate your skeptical view , and agree that yea even with the best of intentions including the well known critics of the genre feels a bit pandering . however i would encourage you to atleast get into the game and try it out , we can collectively postulate on all the reasons why mmorpg might not succeed , however what we need most is the pure crits on gameplay design , direct examples of when and where a design decision fails or has unforseen consequences , to collectively try and fix those issues for all future games of the genre we care about .
I... I can't focus on the video. I see kitten in background, my mind drifts away and stares at the kitty. Cute little furrball! :)
Cat cam when??
Thanks for highlighting this game mate, looks great. I 100% thought this was going to be a scam highlight given the video length but it looks like they're giving it a solid go
This looks a bit more promising than the average MMO kickstarter slop, I dunno.
Been a part of it pretty much since the startup. Its fun and I look forward to where it goes.
i really don't like Josh and Callum promoting this kickstarter mmorpg. i enjoy them being neutral. but this clearly is a promotion. if they wanted it to be a promotion or not.
Personally I prefer the 2010s era of MMOs more than the early 2000s era. The big 2 I think of are The Old Republic and FF14. FF14 for how robust and content rich the game is, especially for people like me that don’t especially care for the combat but ADORE the gathering and crafting systems baked into the game’s engine. Old Republic, meanwhile, does something I really appreciate where they treat the game like a proper game. Fully voice acted…eight wholly unique and varied campaigns with the ability to shape your story as you see fit…and a greater reliance on your own story being what matters beyond the individual interactions with other players.
The Old Republic went really too far with the single player stuff imo though. I usually play mmos with my husband and when Eternal Thrones came out there was single player instance after single player instance. It was like "well thanks for walking from that instance to this instance with me, I'll see you in two hours."
@@TheCandystripedlegs sure, the dlc got a bit too reliant on single player, but I’d say for every game like Old Republic there’s 100 MMOs that leave you alone and hope you make friends.
First thing I learned when starting my career as translator specialized in video games? The mobile gaming market is larger than PC + all consoles combined. And from what I've been translating, I can confirm this.
I don't like this as PC gamer and old NES first-hour-fan, but it's the truth.
Yes, there was a video focusing on Blizzard and the whole "do you not have phones?" thing. In an annual statement they showed that most of their profit came from Diablo Online microtransactions, and some staggering amount of their player base being in Asia... on mobile. Us PC 'masterrace' fans don't realise the huge market changes that have already happened. Where the money is, that is where the company will direct it's attention.
I dunno, flying Josh Strife Hayes and Callum Upton over to the studio as consultants for this game lends a lot of credibility to it IMHO. They've seen the books and level of funding that's gone into it so far, they've gotten to know the team, and they've even been given access to the backend and the code. I'm not saying this game is gonna be a grand success, but it's certainly not a scam that's going nowhere. I did decide to back it even though I'm usually a solo MMO player (and this game is group focused) because I like what they're doing here. It's a donation, not a purchase. The game will be free-to-play and I'm aware of that fact, but I still wanted to toss some cash in the pot to show players are interested because that's the entire purpose of this crowdfunding effort (not to actually fund, but to gauge interest). I saw on a Kickstarter update today that they announced the playtest this weekend and I'm excited to get to check it out even if it turns out it's not my cup of tea.
There are tons of ways for investors to gauge feasibility of a project that don't involve kickstarter, tons of games being made right now without going through the kickstarter charade, which is mainly used as a lottery ticket to try and cash some more money in this case, no point in making a crowdfunded project if you are investor backed instead. Having said that, getting reputable content creators to act as consultants is both a good and a sly move at the same time, since is very difficult for somebody to talk shit about their client/employer you know. Bottom line is that the game still looks pretty bad and i'm honestly worried that this is the result of a 60 people investor backed game company.
@@manuelrapino5917 I think kickstarters can be an excellent way to gauge interest. Well, they used to be... too many people have been burned, especially by this genre. I've been rather lucky because I have backed frequently (both video and tabletop) since 7 Days to Die back in the day and have never been burned by a Kickstarter. Knock on wood. The only game I've ever been burned by was Identity and it was outside of Kickstarter and a dumb move on my part.
Anywho, I understand the skepticism here but I think people might be a little TOO burned on this topic and are jumping the gun. You've got people in this very comment section calling the game a scam (clearly isn't) or incorrectly thinking they are trying to fund development with that very low number on Kickstarter. The thing that might hurt this game the most is past history with other projects, not due to anything they're doing wrong themselves.
I'm curious, are you going to try it out this weekend? That's gonna be the best thing for it, people at least checking it out to see if we like what's being made. And if we don't, we say so. Both with our words and our money (as in, withholding it).
@@manuelrapino5917 I just wrote a (friendly) three paragraph response to you and RUclips's stupid new comment gobbling algorithm deleted it. I want to cry. Ugh, this problem is getting so bad. It's like 50/50 in regards to whether or not a comment will pass the test and stick.
@@manuelrapino5917 But basically I'll leave out all the other stuff I wrote and just get to the question I had in the end: Will you be testing the game out this weekend? I think the best shot it has is getting people in to play it so we can make a decision about whether or not we like the direction it's going in. And if we don't, we let them know and see if changes follow or we pass on it entirely.
@@MadameCirce yeah youtube is getting wild with the comments XD. My point was not really about this game in particular, which is a totally subjective thing, it was more about the fact that we as consumers need to start being a bit more mindful about how we spend our money in my opinion.
Not everyone should "have the chance" to make games, or art or anything else just because they feel like it. If we start giving money where money is due, and stop the perorder craze, like in the old days, then the median quality of the products that we will get is bound to get higher, otherwise we will continue seeing this dilution in quality that's rampant in art and media.
The fact that Callum Upton and Josh Strife Hayes were brought in by the devs to provide feedback at least lends some credibility.
They were paid toygh
Lmao why because they are iNfLuEnCeRs y00t00b3rz? Is a fucking wow clone clossplatform (mobile trash) get over it
@@ajejebrazorf1888more like "paid off"
not really
Callum is clearly biased because he got paid by the devs.
I seriously think Callum, Josh, and Stix will regret appearing in this promo video in the future.
I've not checked the site but do the developers state clearly that the crowdfunding is to proof to the investors that there's interest in the game?
Why does Callum need to explain this in his video as some commenters mentioned here?
They should outright say it in the Kickstarter page. As someone watching this promo video without any contexts, I cannot but think that the appearance of my favourite content creators is to give their general approval of this game because this is how the video seems to imply.
Neither Josh nor I have openly endorsed the game. We played it, gave thoughts and opinions, but that is the extent of our involvement. I’ll continue to cover it sure, but as an outsider looking in.
@@MMOByte I am glad to hear that. However, I am afraid anyone watching the video will see it as an endorsement due to how the developers presented the video. It is implied heavily which is why I worry for you guys if something is to go wrong in the future.
@@oldnoobgamer90 Oh I totally understand. I'm not trying to deflect from that fact - I'm well aware of what it looks like. Unfortunately, no matter what we say, they were allowed to present our chat in whatever way they want since we were paid to discuss the game and critique it. The critique was just left out of their promotional material haha.
Would love to see Kira tell a developer their shit game is shit, followed by the lengthy awkward silence only British people have mastered.
the kickstarter isn't the sole funding, its to help with finding more funding backers after this
Exactly this point here. They have a financial backer. They just set a achievable 200k goal for the kick starter.
Given the state of gaming in general lately combined with the fact that I now have 2 kids, it would take something insanely massive to get me into an MMO. What looks like a WoW clone isn't going to do it for me. And frankly the entire idea of "F2P" basically kills everything it touches.
Maybe after we've all had our mandatory brain chips and can experience "full-dive" style gameplay... but I hate the first part of that so much that I don't think I'll be able to do the latter.
I really don't like the kickstarter "rewards" of "design a part of our game for us, and pay us to do it!"
It's sad to see how cynical Kira has become, to the point where he wont' even cover OR play indie MMO projects. That was some of my favorite content from him too. I'm at least really happy to see that Callum actually still cares enough to check them out and vet them.
I think this game will get released and is definitely not a scam. What is Kira's criteria at this point for vetting MMO's? He has none. He even said in this video that they have done this Kickstarter the best possible way imaginable, and yet he still does not endorse this at all.
I've been feeling this way for a while. I think it's just an unsub for me.
Welp he's almost always correct so it seems like the cynicism is well placed.
Callum Upton said in his video that the reason for this kickstarter was to attract more investors, the sum of 200 000 would obviously not help very much, but getting the attention of more investors will.
So say that is all true and correct..... They raise the money from the Kickstarter, BUT that does not draw in any more investors... Thus the point of the Kickstarter would be failure!! They would not be able to create the game they believe they could without more investment.
So that game never gets made and all the people disappointed and left holding the bag per say are going to be all the people who took part in the Kickstarter.
And another point is you mention Callum's video in the way that information was explained or more context was given... But there is the very real reality that there is No crossover for a huge amount of gamers.. so those people may only ever see the Kickstarter video and never see any of the other videos from the RUclips creators or posts they make on some other social media platform!!??!!
At this point if people are still gullible enough to believe in this stuff they deserve to have their money thrown into the void. Agree that the guys are not necessarily nefarious, but they're selling you on a dream that even a fully funded Kickstarter prob can't deliver on with the best of intentions.
Endorsement is the word you’re looking for re the other content creators.. and you’re right. This was a poor decision. By all parties.
It was all so cringy.
mobile might be played but it can't be a mmo their only point is skill rotation, buffs debuffs etc and that means more than the current light arpgs who are designed for mobile too with their 4 skills builds I don't think that's what mmo players are looking for so they're making a game for no one
You dont need the old school idea of 57 active abilities to be fun though. Most MMOs I've played, 95% of the time you're using the same 4 or 5 abilities and rarely the others unless you're in some super specific bit of content
Only thing better than a Kira video is TWO Kira videos!
Seriously, I think nowadays if you wanna create an MMO, the most viable choice is to go through the Minecraft/Terraria/Palworld route, get some seed funding through early access while giving your players to run their own private servers and get them hooked on the gameplay loop while you figure out how much funds you need to inject on your server infrastructure to maintain MMO, and then what kind of story you want to tell within your game. Even Palworld's spending close to $100k/yr on server infrastructure, and they're not even running an MMO.
Making an MMO is like building a house: you can have a solid foundation, you can put up perfectly aligned walls/ doors/ windows, but it is the game's full launch and it is up to the PLAYERS to build the ROOF. Nothing else sadly matters, cause even if it is perfect all below that... does it matter if you tuck in for bed at night and it is snowing on your face in the middle of winter, all your stuff get soaked cause it rained? It is all good when the weather is clear and good but that only lasts so long.
IF the MMO could go in the direction [roof down] it would have a better chance. It is just the way the technology works - the current limits - no one has shown a stable product working backwards (as far as I know). Good people fail all the time, Bad people will say what ever to take your money and it is just hard to know.
Looks fine! If it releases, gets good reviews, and isn’t pay to win or pay for convenience, I’d check it out.
If I may, Kira, you pointed out that 200k for a mmo kickstarted is quite iffy, but these guys have been developing the game for years and have put quite a lot of money on it, so I believe the kickstarter was made to raise awareness on it, more than for raising money. As many have pointed out, Josh, Callum and others have been involved, and I personally trust them , but putting blind faith on anyone is a bad idea nowadays.
So yeah, I believe you are right to be wary on such projects. That said, a year or so ago I gave some money to the project, because I could do it and the team sounded trustworthy and I wanted to help, but as you said, no one can say for sure that such game will be successful.
Good video as always. Keep up the good work.
That would be better as a sandbox with private server fuctionality, similar to palworld or lost ark... no 1 has time for classic mmo's any more where you spend 10 hours 2 find a party to do a 2hr ish task...
I get what you mean, but as soon as I see Josh Strife Hayes is on board with their idea, I’m in.
I generally trust josh's opinion... however, I don't like them using him in the KS video. I assume he got paid for his consultancy and maybe the contract had some wording in it that allows them to use his feedback in this way, but it feels a bit of icky to me.
Kira, big miss on this one. You don't need to endorse it, but the cynicism is misplaced here. Sorry man.
Why? I’m actually just interested in why you think that? Does he need to immediately support any Kickstarter mmo that doesn’t happen to be a scam? Why?
I mean he’s right about them including mmo creators in the pitch, the creators obviously are giving their honest opinions but that’s not the point, the developers are most definitely including them in the pitch to create trust in the game when it isn’t actually deserved. They’re also doing this because Kickstarter mmos have the worst reputation of any game related kickstarters.
The game is selling packages for $5000 man this doesn’t indicate to you that they are trying to create trust for a reason? Suddenly the presence of Josh or Callum makes you more likely to give them 5k so they can hit their goal.
I’ve seen every mmo creator on here blindly support this game having Kira bring everyone back to reality and remind them that even the Kickstarter mmos that weren’t scams never released because making an mmo is insanely hard is a good thing.
Seeing Josh and Callum in a promotional video for a MMO makes my first reaction wonder if they are shilling for this company. I'm definitely going to check out their channels to see what they have to say about the game, but on the surface it makes me question things.
I was hired to consult on some basic systems, not promote the game, which is why I'm not promoting the game. The footage they used was of my visit and discussing the systems they had made.
They're pretty smart because they never actually say you'll get access to the game in the pledges. :)
My concern over any MMO or, indeed, any open world game being even partially crowdfunded is that they all too often ask for too little. The reason for that is that they need a lot of cash, yes, but they don't want to ask for so much that it fails to reach their goal and so the crowdfunding fails. They choose Kickstarter because the fact that it is an "all or nothing" platform, it gives a little more credibility to their proiect - that they're not just doing a quick cash grab to get whatever they can get their hands on and that they're being serious. The fact that in this case they seem to be quite well advanced in the development process suggests they've had some decent funding sources in the past, which may be a small red flag in that they've either lost that source or they've burned through what money they were previously able to raise.
No that's usually solo devs or people scraping their friends together to form a company. A lot of these types of fund-raisers are a tool to secure more funding. Showing a big investor that you have $200k shows them you can make and handle large amounts of money so they're safe to give you more
it is a little weird they would spend all that money on creators giving a simple review
Not weird at all to me, look at all the people in the comments defending this random game solely because youtubers they like are in the video.
@@speed0spank that's the red flag. the money was used to buy a cult following instead of developing the game
This time will be different!
idk if id turn away from this game based on this video. this video came off as more skepticism than anything.
Damn Callum Upton had different opinion on this xd
well callum is involved,he was there
I mean Kira just give the cautious response. He says that they did the kickstarter pitch basically the best way possible. But he recommends to be cautious anyway and he shares his reasoning behind this. I think Kiras reasoning is good, there hasn't been good MMOs born from kickstarter at all. Even the biggest budget and brain companies fail at MMOs, so why trust this indie studio? Why trust, when you can just wait and see how it goes?
Also big question, why are these people doing a kickstarter in the first place? 200k won't give them much. For a team of 60 people, that's probably less than 1 month of salary.
And if they use this kickstarter to get some marketing and rumor going, then I'm not sure if that's morally the right way of doing it, even if it works.
@@crankpatate3303 this isnt a moral issue,its not the company doing kickstarter cuz they want it,its industry standard to use kickstarter to gauge interest by investors
Having a successful kickstarter is used to show their investors its worth giving him more. The CEO in a video even says this himself.
@@zoonal-gg nonsense, there are other tools to gauge investment feasibility that don't involve kickstarter, tons of games being made right now without being on kickstarter.
I feel like a big problem is there is a huge gap for Single-Player/Co-Op games with MMO like progression, and that's why so many people play MMOs alone.
I for example play retail wow mostly alone outside of some keys and stuff and tbh if a huge sandbox fantasy game came out with the same type of progression came out i'd be all over it
The game looks SUSPICIOUSLY like WoW. The studio is called "Beast burst Entertainment" with a familiar logo too.. Really? How can anyone take this seriously?
i'm sure this MMO will see the light, like every other crowd funded MMO made by people with no coding or software development experience. HOW CAN IT FAIL AM I RIGHT?
While I am tired of these type of RPG MMOs, because they look so identical and uninspired, I disagree with the criticism. They may do bad marketing decisions like putting in RUclipsrs into their videos, but that does not reflect on the quality of the game. Everyone, especially people like them are desperate for attention, because attention directly translates into money.
He doesnt want to develop or even play new mmo. All he want is to bring back the feeling when he was younger and played all night with with friends.
Thank you friend-o.
Yeah, this more a nonbrainer than anything: Callum and Josh think it's not a scam, so it most likely isn't. But making a good MMORPG is incredibly hard and resiource intensive.
It would be naive to expect success.
This Kickstarter is a highrisk investment.
And if you're okay with that, there is no reason to not fund it if you want yet another overambitious MMORPG try to be the one which actually doesn't fail and is fun to play.
Chances are low but still better than a lottery ticket.
Nice vid, what's the thing on your desk under the octo plushie?
Some audio mixing-magic thingy probably.
I honestly don't see the problem here...? Are you sure they didn't deny your self-invite or something more along those lines?
Surprised to see callum and kira with very different opinions
I think the difference is just callum having more information.
@@cassolmedia yeah callum has the info from going in, being paid to advise it and even testing it so has more info and a feel for if the game would come out and be as outlined.... Kira has the view of the every day person, its great to see both sides, I do hope he comes up with a response to callums video on this game too and shares his view on that too
Wow our gaming philosophy could not be more different but this was wn interesting video regardless.
This game looks like it's trying to copy WoW's homework.
Won't shame the man cuz bag does need to be gotten- but the irony of going from all that discourse to then shilling ourt gamersupps, even if he does legit respek them as a product, is nonetheless funny.
Not gonna try it, not gonna investigate at all, just say "mmo, must be scam" what lazy bad take kira. Check out Callum Upton's video for more context. For your information, the Kickstarter isn't to fund the whole game; it's how the company demonstrates interest to investors. Maybe do your homework before condemning
Yea when I saw Callum (whose views I generally) it seemed like his presence lent credibility to this game and implied a co-sign as you mentioned, which may not have been his intent.
He made a 30 minute infomercial for the game on his channel so I think it might be his intent.
Callum and JSH shilling their heart out in that one. Kinda jarring compared to the content they usually make.
How am I shilling? I consulted on design for 2 days and now do not talk about the project.
massive L comment
Surprised you don't recommend it because your friend I believe, Callum did talk positively about it.
Ever since Palworld kinda gave us the litmus test of how expensive servers are to run, I feel some type of way, knowing that anyone hoping to launch an MMO who doesn’t have this metric accounted for, is kinda asking a lot from the general public if your product overperforms and they can’t pay the maintenance fees. Microsoft spent money to keep Palworld afloat… who’s going to foot the bill here?
Palworld is a terrible litmus test for server cost as its horribly optimized to run as a multipler game. Servers don't usually take 10-16gb to run what palworld runs.
This reminds me of Runes of Magic, the game they are making looks so much like they are trying to make a World of Warcraft look alike. All the assets look so similar to WoW. Looking at the icons of the races and classes in the Kickstarter also look a lot like the WoW ones. They are clearly trying to bait Warcraft fans. Would not be surprised to hear the old saying of "This game is going to be a WoW killer". If the trailer of the game was shown to me without mentioning the name of the game I would assume it was World of Warcraft.
Yeah, orcs, goblins, humans, elves, dwarfs, demon. WOW definitely was unique. No other fantasy universe has ever used those races.
@@mrnotsure8655 I'm meaning the actual artwork.
Everybody has different tastes. Everybody is susceptible to some form of corruption. YTers are strangers. A video doesn’t tell me how the game actually feels. Sugary words don’t get me gameplay testing.
The problem with Kickstarter campaigns is it’s a big “Trust me bro” situation. You don’t enter strange vans on the promise of candy. You don’t give developers money without some hands on proof the game is worth it. Anything can be faked in a video. Ubisoft has been doing it for decades to resounding success and sighs from those who got duped.
If you can support something somebody else promises just off faith and videos? More power to you. Taking risks sometimes leads to great reward. The problem is, that’s a very rare occurrence and more often than not, you end up disappointed.
I won’t throw a penny at you until you put something in my hands that shows me what I have to look forward to. Devs used to do it in the form of demos, alphas and betas as a way to gain support. Obviously the culture has changed and “trust me” is now as valid as actually giving you proof in the form of hands on testing and having YTers hype your products.
I don’t trust YTers. I don’t know them. I know what they do on their videos, but I find that a lot of YTers seem to be getting busted for very corrupt and criminal things a lot these days. Still a stranger waving a bag of candy at you from an open van door honestly. Being a fan of content and knowing who the person is behind the screen are two WAAAAAAAY different things. Unfortunately, I have a feeling that a lot of people these days would get in the van if a YTer waved candy at them.
It’s a sad state of affairs. One of which has led to many displeasing results. “Trust me bro” culture is strong these days.
They also said you can pay a monthly sub to be a tester for their game. Imagine playing a company to alpha/beta test their game, used to be the other way around where they pay QA testers.
Still I've been following this game for quite a while now. Will wait and see if the game will be released.
Hello Kira, my boyfriend works there and I know that it is not SCAM, but a good visit to the game, see you. Follow the new content shared by BB Entertainment, cheers.
"HOW MANY TIMES DO WE NEED TO TEACH YOU THIS LESSON, OLD MAN?!?!"
The whole F2P aspect of this is what really turns me off about it. When it releases, how many paywalls will there be?
Kira ragebaiting without even checking on Callum, a better mmorpg scam reporters page lol
Well, you look at FF14, the award winning MMO, and it's just a single player game until you hit raids.
always hilarious with devs claiming overmonetized f2p mmo as "old-school", get real if the game was going to be truly old-school it would be subscription based with zero mtx
They are currently at 33.000 out of 200.000 dollar. Even if they hit their goal it's a drop in the ocean. What possible difference could it make?
Looks a bit cookie cutter in all aspects, I wish it had a component that look considerably better than what we have with other mmos, like combat or crafting. Massive potential though
I was listening to this without watching so I got really confused when I heard Callum Upton’s voice all of a sudden, I thought RUclips started playing a different video.
But yeah, hearing people like this especially Josh Strife Hayes, really does make it feel like an endorsement and if I just saw that video with those people I would think this game was legitimate and good.
Did you discuss with Callum Upton or at least watched his video on it regarding why its only 200k, and what they already have invested?
Nobody should have to go to Callum to get info about this Kickstarter. It is the game's responsibility to explain that stuff. Maybe swap out the creator clips and actually explain your plan to the people you're asking for money.
@@speed0spank sure, thats fair, but still .. as a reporter you do your research .. it was assumed instead of done .. the research, I'd argue. I expect a bit more from Kira tbh. Still, your point is correct about that it is mainly the games responsibility to clear things up.
@@PlanetJeroen research on a game typically wouldn't include watching other opinion pieces imo
Kira my man, you are amazing!
THESE CREATYORS COMING OVER is a terrible idea, and a dangerous precedent, and the fact that they couldn't see it is concerning. nowe they are biased
I finally can relate to a video I supported these guys man that sucks.
Looks like a cheap wow knockoff
I don't fully understand why it's always the MMO these people want to try, the hardest possible type of game to get right and "yah we want 100k to do it"
Because that's not what happens. These companies usually have other investors but they need a certain amount of capital to secure those investments
I really miss Kira's Kickstarter Adventures :(
I'm sorry but the game just looks ugly. You can go for "old" aesthetics, have them in whatever style you want including cartoonish, but this isn't it. What bothers me the most is definitely shadows. In most shots it looks like there's simply none, and in the few there are, it's just not enough.
To be fair that's is one of the easiest improvements they can make and it is pre release content
this isone of the first times ive ever disagreed with your take. they have millions of $ sinking into the project already. and the playable pre-alpha has a fun loop. the only caution i bring people is that it's definitely more geared towards those who like late 90s/early 00s style mmos. it will not appeal to those who only like new wave mmos.
Nothing you wrote here guarantees that a) the game will even see a full release; b) will be successful when it releases. Even when a project is developed by a well-meaning and at least somewhat competent team, it does not prevent the opportunity of failure. Just because Callum Upton places his trust in the project, does not mean that it won't join the graveyard of Kickstarter MMO's
@@IdleCommentator my comment obviously is addressing his misinformed points. it's kinda of obvious? ^ ^' i dont really care about influencers much tbh (i didn't mention them). speaking only to the misinformation about funds and if the product has a better chance at being viable (am a dev myself, can gauge things fairly well)
also i do state it seems like it'll be a more niche game. it's got the oldschool way of going about things, which i happen to like, and that's the audience type it'll capture.
@@spiculicious Nothing Kira says in the video can be qualified as misinformed. You're "debunking" the points that actually are not made in the video.
mobile versions are great. I can hook my bluetooth keyboard and mouse up and play literally anywhere and let's be real, the performance of these machines is not notably worse than laptops at this point.