Great video, I used this PCV valve on my 2017 GM 2.4l GDI Ecotec. I blocked off the internal fixed orifice, installed it with a catch can. Fresh air circuit is stock, and still a closed system. I installed a vacuum fitting on my valve cover and ran tubing into the car with a manometer. It can precisely measure low levels of vacuum and pressure. I was able to tune both circuits much better while driving under various road conditions, loads and speeds. I get regular crankcase vacuum .1 -.3 inHg, and .6" at wide open throttle. The engine is absolutely clean, factory compression, better than new mpg after 100k miles. I learned the importance of a proper PCV system back in the 80s with my first Buick V-6 engine. A PCV delete caused oil, leaks, oil consumptio, sludge and ruined the engine. An old timer high school auto shop teacher slapped some sense into me and never forgot it.
Mike, I installed the M/E Wagner Adjustable PCV on my '71 Chevelle (SBC) after reading about it in Hemmings Muscle Machines - and I love the results. No oil consumption, oil stays clean and throttle response is great. One thing I had to do was to modify the baffle in the valve cover. I'm using a set of vintage M/T valve covers, and there was not enough clearance between the bottom of the PCV and the baffle. M/E recommended at least 3/8" clearance to avoid restricting the valve. That worked perfectly! Great guys at M/E Wagner.. super helpful!!
Thanks Bob! What an awesome testimonial... I totally agree, if you don't have adequate baffling before the valve, you'll be sucking oil. I'm about 2000 miles into mine, and I too have zero oil consumption, and the oil still looks new! Love it! Thanks again for the comment!
Mike, as a follow-up to my comments about the ME Wagner PCV Valve, I wanted to know if you had considered installing a catch can (air oil separator) inline with the hose before you route it back to your intake. The guys at Wagner said installing one is good insurance to keep your intake clean. Thoughts?
This is great information. Early cars (before yours) just meatball the crank gasses into a carb... very messy and does not work unless you want to gum up your carb and have real problems. The old PCV valves have those weighted spring loaded mystery valves (like you showed) and those are next to useless. The "flam arrester pans" inside the case that keep oil out of the PCV are clogged most times so this is a place for super clean and a large plate is a must... as you said. My older cars just vent to atmosphere but I do have oil sludge issues. I really have no way to use this on most of my cars but just understanding the issues is SO important. Thank you for bringing this vastly overlooked issue up as it is key and a true tuning point. Remember too that high crankcase pressure will cause odd oil leaks. Thank You for this information. Bobby
Thanks Bobby! Love the testimonial. Totally agree that one of the symptoms of a poor PCV system is strange oil leaks, or even pushing your dipstick out of it's holder, as another subscriber mentioned. Much appreciated!
@@bobeaseshop9389 I grew up in that era where everything was rebuilt in shop, adding pressurized oil filter systems, oil bathe air cleaners, draft tube is the name of non-PCV system which worked and legal but fumes came into the cabin as farmers & towns people in our rural area found rust and put it under the carpet for safe keeping. Delco sold a kit to convert these and I have a Delco PCV inlet for testing. It's like a tune. You read the spark plugs first, then a compression test & wrote it on the ticket. Second the distributor went on the Sun distributor machine. I still have Delco tubes of points cam lube as points needed adjusted or replaced every 3,000 to 6,000 miles. Adjusting the front drum brakes to pull straight was not only a job, but a question on the "Brake" test of the National Institute of Automotive Service Excellence or shortened to ASE. I was well into the Datsun dealer as one of three techs. They had 4 VW and 1 Porsche tech and nobody wanted to take the 8 test. The mgr offered $0.05 cents for each I took and passed. I got a $0.040 cent flat rate pay raise. But then, customer pay was only $24 per hour at the dealer in a Capital City. I was given all multiport EFI 1976 Datsun 280Z, multi-carb Convertible Roadsters (1600 & 2000) and some 240Z plus everything electrical. We had a new high school, but no shop. I apprenticed at a two man shop before moving to get a job with benefits. Then I woke up 40 years later! What happened?
Hello Mike. I watch all of your videos from my country and i appreciate to learn a lot because you speak clearly ans step by step. Thank you so much to share your knowledge 😊
Just 2 hours ago finishedinstalling one on a mild 302 in my '31 Ford. The PCV that I was using was the same p/n as what I had on a well built 351W in another car but for some reason sucked lots of oil even with a small air - oil separator on the 302. Due to time constraints with having to remove that separator because of where it was installed am hoping that I wont have to find a way to reinstall. Oh well, simple project once I plowed through 8 pages of info 2-3 times.
Great to hear! I have about 700 miles on it so far... zero oil consumption, and the oil still looks brand new. Awesome side affect of having a perfect PCV system. Have fun!
Great to hear, Brian! I just finished my first 500 miles with it installed... zero oil loss, and the oil looks brand new! Where in the past it would already start turning brown. Crazy! Thanks for the comment!
Thanks Johnny... it's the rattle can paint from Inline Tube. Here's the video where I painted it; ruclips.net/video/Zt9r-xWeMQo/видео.htmlsi=UVrO9y59uc4BZJIB Oh, it WAS a 400. It's now a Butler 470 :)
I'll have to try one of those. $160 is worth it to keep from burning oil. I run a oil catch can with a bronze filter, works great, but this would be batter.
Why do I need a pcv valve ? My stock Oldsmobile just had a vent cap with a hose going to the intake. Could you tell me if this is good enough, or why it might be bad? I recently rebuilt the motor and installed and open atmosphere vent. So I’m not sucking in all that oil vapor. However, when is running Oil vapor starts to collect on top of the valve cover. Yeah I Probably got some blow by. I just need to last a little while longer.
Good question. All naturally aspirated engines need a PCV, or evac system. The vent cap with tube was your PCV. Your engine needs some sort of mechanism to remove the excess blow by from your crankcase. If you've been running without it, change your oil immediately, and get that fixed. Keep us posted. Thanks!
Mike it is Dave with the ULTRA RAM ok After I had the install of ACES EFI Joker Multi port It started a bad oil leak 360 chevy I had the PVC hooked up With the new Ultra Ram I dunno if it is not needed or my tuner just forgot to hook it up So my 1st question is NEEDND on the ultra ram 2nd question not being hooked up will you more prone to oil leak I know that sounds like a stupid question Thanks Dave Dad's Ole Garage
Dave... good questions. ONE, ALL engines require an adequate PCV system to clear out harmful fumes. If you don't have one, or it's not working well, excessive pressure can build in the crankcase, which tends to push oil into places it shouldnt be ... like outside the engine. :) Make sure your PCV is hooked up correctly!
I never thought twice about my pcv valve. My engine only makes 8in of manifold vacuum at idle. If i understand it correctly that means my stock valve probably wasn’t closing at idle. My idle is rough which I figured was the cam (sounds cool.) I wonder if it was partially due to the pcv being open? I ordered the Wagner valve. I wonder if it will give me more idle vacuum which my brake booster could really use. Who knows, I don’t understand it but I can follow instructions so I ordered one.
Good choice! Let us know how your engine performs after install. My biggest win was my oil stayed "new" for wayyy longer. And, of course, I can rev easier now too. Have fun!
my oil dipstick pops out about an inch almost every time i drive my 68 GTO w/455 & 5 speed tremec. Could it be excess crankcase pressure from a faulty PCV system?
Same thing used to happen to me when I had the PCV in the drivers side valve cover. I did what Mike had and returned to a stock style Valley pan, put the PCV back in the pan and added a second breather on the drivers side. Eliminated the problem completely.
Great video! I think I’ll be purchasing one of these for my 406” Pontiac 400. Going in a 75 Formula 400 Firebird. Wish you would have showed a pic of the valve after you had everything assembled. I’ll be running mine from the valley pan. So I would’ve liked to seen how you had yours setup, even though I’m running a Holley 800cfm spreadbore carb and FI.
Yeah, good call... so worth the money to have an adequate PCV system. I'll have to think of a video that shows it installed. It's kinda tough to see as I ran the hose underneath the manifold. Which is good. Have fun!
I just have an open system, this being said couldn't I install this in the lower section of my airgap manifold? I just got 439,906 miles on my sbc but I had Zero sludge in my engine, My ENTIRE block has been polished and I only run Amsoil and dual filters. My engine failed due to tampering.
Not sure how to answer your question... it should go near where your standard PCV valve is supposed to go. Sorry, I'm not an expert on SBC engines, but sounds like you got some fantastic life out of the last build.
Thanks Dan! It's a smaller show in SoCal at the Automobile Driving Museum. Pontiacs Only. I conducted a few different interviews. One of which will blow your mind. Thanks again!
Mike, I don’t believe you’ve listed the valley pan grommet with the 1/2” opening. I’m splitting my manifold like you’ve done and would prefer to use just the grommet rather than the adapter. Thanks!
Good point Kevin... here it is... butlerperformance.com/i-24724590-rpc-push-in-pcv-grommet-for-pontiac-aluminum-valley-pans-75-id-1-2-od-rpc-s4998.html?ref=search:https%3A%2F%2Fbutlerperformance.com%2Fsearch.html%3Fq%3Dpcv
I like the idea I can’t find much of any aftermarket pcv/crankcase flow valves or setup like that. What about turbo motors though? I think only plausible would be two check valves two vac lines one to turbo intake and one to intake manifold one check valve that closes intake vac line under boost and one that flows only into turbo intake when boost is present. Idle no boost:vac from intake (vac hose to turbo intake check valve won’t allow vac to pull though) Boost: vac from turbo intake (other check valve on vac line from intake manifold closes holds boost in manifold) It’s weird looking up manufacturers and how there pcv/oil separator valves flow and regulate.
In theory that would work. Typically most aftermarket superchargers or turbos require the use of a belt driven evac pump. Especially at boost because there's a lot more blow by versus a standard engine. If you find out anything different, let us know. Thanks for the comment.
First time I’ve actually seen one of these cool devices. Seems to be well matched for cars with 12” vacuum or more. Does the fixed orifice configuration essentially bypass all of the adjustability?
Good question Steve... Fixed orifice is still adjustable, it just doesn't swap over from idle to cruise. It's purely based on idle vacuum. It's well explained on the W/E Wagner Site. I love it!
Monty..dude I really want see more of ur gto running and just in general, I think sweet build an star of the show..you don't show it nearly enough..there are folks that love gtos want see them every video you should least show a intro slide show of it every episode
Hmmm, good idea Joseph. I'll have to figure out how to implement that into every intro. I really wish I had my own camera guy to film me when I'm doing driving events, like the Drag Racing one... I asked someone to shoot for me. Thanks for looking out! See ya!
I have found a more common issue with standard PVC valves regardless of where you put them in the return system. At low rpm with a 3/8" line to the PVC valve to the base of the carb, it has so much vacuum going to it the valve flutters so bad at low rpm the valve gets extra hot from the friction of all the fluttering! ( Note Pontiac V8s do it the most ) To cure this issue I installed a vacuum restrictor in the line. True, I am still pumping oil mist back into the intake, but at a greatly reduced amount to the point the flutter is gone, and the hot PVC valve is now much cooler. I have to replace my rod bearings, timing chain & oil pump about every 15,000 miles because it's a balls to the wall race motor with a forged crank & rods that I twist it up over 8,000 rpm all the time in the traps. So far over all the tear downs there was no sludge or extra build up anywhere, so I assume that restriction the PVC system to stop the fluttering is the way to go for my application. I am not advising anyone to do this, I am just saying if your having the fluttering PVC vale issue, this is one way out.
Very interesting Mike... I've honestly never heard that before. Thanks for sharing! My PVC gets hot too... but, it is connected to a hot piece of Iron, lol.
before 1963, no engines even had a PCV valve in USA, they had road draft tubes. the blowby gases blew downward out a dump tube behind the engine. it's a good idea to pull vacuum on an engine, and remove blowby, it helps the rings keep oil out of the combustion chamber- but it's a BAD IDEA, to then take oil mist and blowby, and put it back into the intake manifold ! oil dilutes the gas charge, and actually causes DETONATION. spark knock. it will effectively LOWER the octane rating of the fuel you are using ! there should be a catch can between the pcv valve and intake manifold fitting, to remove the oil mist completely. Bill Jenkins used pan vac fittings in the header collectors, in conjunction with a PCV valve, catch can, on his pro stock Chevys back in the 1970's. The entire system is described in detail in his old Chevrolet Racing Engine manual. the PCV would pull at idle, part throttle, and the pan vac headers system would pull at wide open throttle. the system worked so well he had to remove the valve stem seals, to lubricate the valves, as they were running dry. the LAST THING you want to do, is put WOT level blowby oil mist, directly into the intake manifold ! take a look inside your intake manifold after you use that pcv valve for a few years, you'll see it's all grimey with oil. GM 3800 II engines would actually have a pool of oil inside the floor of the plastic intake manifold ! it's got to be captured with a catch can, or into the headers, or at least out a dump tube. you don't want it in the intake manifold. the slightest bit of oil mist in the intake, will drive a high compression racing engine into detonation.
I agree with you . The hose has to be oil resistant and stiff . I would think a larger diameter as well and form a loop . At the bottom of the loop would be your catch can . You could see the effectiveness by having a drain valve at the bottom of the can .
If it uses a "standard" pcv, yes. Sorry, I'm just not familiar with that engine. But, all engines have some sort of pcv valve. Let us know what you find out.
Nice video. Thanks for the great install information. I noticed your FiTech and a different FI manifold that is different than tue one you had in your FI video series. What intake are you using and how did you get it to work with your FiTech? Unless you have a video I missed maybe?
Thanks Rick... great catch. During my last rebuild I switched to a Torker II with port injection provisions. I currently have FiTech injectors in those rails. But, they're not operational, yet. Next step is to dyno the Throttle Body injection. Then, convert to Port Injection and dyno again. A great comparison... stay tuned!
Sorry to bother you but I was searching for the Wagner PCV valve online and up comes this valve looks exactly like the Wagner. They call it an inline billet dual flow pcv valve. Do you know anything about this? apparently it connects to hoses and not to the valve cover or valley pan. Very strange but its $24.99. Im not going to buy it but Im curious about this item
Ha! Good catch Ryan... in the next few months I'm going to be doing a dyno comparison between a FiTech Throttle Body, and FiTech's Port Injected solution. (Which isn't invented yet :)) So, the rails are not operational, yet. The cam is a custom Roller Grind from Butler 282/288, 230/236, .510/.521, 112 LS Here; butlerperformance.com/i-25039411-butler-comp-sp-street-performance-billet-roller-cam-hr-282-288-230-236-510-521-112-ls-std-firing-order-std-journals.html?ref=category:1272239 Stay tuned!
@@FastMonty Very similar specs to my Comp stump puller cam from SD Performance. Its 286/289, 230/236 but at .565/.570 lift. I had it ground at 114. I absolutely love this cam. Lots of vacuum and smooth idle. Its great to see someone who love Pontiacs as much as me showing how all the trick parts work. Keep up the great work and I look forward to seeing the port injection in the future.
@@rohrt1 Ohhh nice! I've heard great things about the "Stump Puller". Yeah, our cams put out massive torque, which puts the smile on your face, as you're mashing the pedal. Ha, ha... Thanks again for sharing your details. See ya!
Great question Anthony... yes, they're FiTech injectors in those rails. But, they're not operational, YET. Gonna Dyno the Throttle Body version, then Dyno the Port injected version. Stay tuned for that!
@@FastMonty you can't slip stuff past me pal! Lol. So will you delete the injectors in the throttle body? ....well I guess I can't make you give away your next podcast. Lol Thanks for all your work!
@@anthonydavis5993 HA! I think you're the first to catch it. Although I kind of explained it in my Torker II video. Anyway, after we dyno the existing throttle body, we replace it with a throttle body designed for port injection. So, there's obviously no fuel rails or injectors inside the next throttle body. We shall see!
@@FastMonty yes Sir, of course being a car detective I had to investigate.... Lol Looking forward to the next vid my man. Such a cool car, and it has a Pontiac motor! Thank you! Lol
Crankcase ventilation is one of the most overlooked and misunderstood mods you can do to a high compression or high rpm 4 cycle engine. Anyone who tells you to eliminate the pcv system and just let it vent to atmosphere is missing the boat. A well laid out pcv system can drastically improve engine performance.
@@FastMonty Harley Davidson engines are notorious for spraying oil everywhere, especially when meat heads attempt to "hotrod" them and rev them over 5000rpm alot. They were never designed to be wound up like crotch rocket. All that displacement with a crankcase that tiny, results in all kinds of problems when their pushed hard for more than a couple minutes. A vacuum pump would certainly help those bikes.
@@andrewbecker3700 I heard about the Wagner valve. Little bit expensive for me. I've also heard of a sort of closed system that pulls actual vacuum from the carb (race engines using vac pumps), but there is no "ventilation". I'm designing a system, no fully my idea but thinking it could work. I'm using 3 of the Billet aluminum pcv valves you can get (I might add a forth) but gutting the regular parts inside of them. They will all get a ball bearing check valve installed inside them. The one Billet pcv valve will be connected to the intake (run through a catch can) like a regular pcv valve. The line is also going through an adjustable unit I'm building. It can be fine tuned for maximum vacuum allowed in that line. Once the max vac is reached, it opens up the ball bearing valve and vents vacuum. That line will connect to my air filter so it will be clean air entering the system. I will also add a needle valve in line so I can adjust the actual flow of whole system. The other 2 Billet units will be located on the opposite, passenger side valve cover. Those have check valve ball bearings inside also, and will also connect directly to the main air filter for clean air. Those 2 units should build a vacuum but once I'm at full throttle with no manifold vacuum, they open up and allow flow into the air filter. The pcv valve on the drivers side valve cover will also stay open and allow blow by gasses to escape (not as much as the passenger side) while at full throttle. I'm thinking a max crankcase vacuum of 10" should be good. Some racers build 16" crankcase vacuum in a sbc with no problems. My engine at idle only makes 5" of vac due to the big mutha thumper comp cam in installed. Cruising at 3000 rpms it makes 15". Do you think the flow through the system will/could have enough flow to keep the oil cleaner? Right now I'm just venting to atmosphere and I have strange oil leaks. (motor has all new seals everywhere), this is why I'm doing this whole mod. I don't put many miles on the car per year either.
Hello Mike. Do you know if an oil leak issue at low rpm but not at idle is a pcv valve issue ? I have a c3 corvette and when i open the hood at idle i don't see any leak but after a cruise i can see oil on the frame etc...
Good question. Do you know where the oil is coming from? ie valve covers, oil pan gasket, etc? A pcv issue (ie excess crankcase pressure can happen at any rpm) Let me know.
Hello Mike. From everywhere. But mostly from the valve cover and between the intake manifold and the surface block where the gasket is. I thought it was a leak from the oil gallery plug in front of the block too but i know I'm wrong now.
@@labalade_7791 Ohhh man, sorry to hear that. Definitely get that gasket changed out. If the PCV is indeed creating too much crankcase pressure, the oil will find it's way out by the path of least resistance. Keep us posted!
@@FastMonty I think I will get a -10 ORB to -12 ORB adapter, the base of this pcv valve is the same as -12 ORB. My idea is to place it on the outlet of a sealed oil catch can instead of the valve cover on my inline pcv system.
Mike love your channel how smooth does your engine idle? I have the exact cam but have considered sending it back and using a114 Lsa rather than 112 I want a smooth idle
PCV valves are not created equally. A stock engine has a calibrated spring and valve assembly. It is when changes are made that effect manifold vacuum, the PCV activity & volume change. While domestic engines run a 18-19" of vacuum, imports ran 20-22" for years. How tight the ring, piston & cylinder wall fit are all factors. OBD-II caused improvements few know and vacuum climbed. Changing intake port volume, large tube headers, compression ratio, valve stem/guide clearance plus positive stem seals all change intake vacuum. Water is a by-product of burning a fossil fuel, blow by that forms carbon, raw fuel vapors for cold start & short trips all end up as pressure in the crankcase. The 99-04 LS truck engine pulls thru a PCV valve in the drivers side rocker cover and wears the tips of the valve stem, leaving witness marks and need dressed. Basically, the intake valve is frequently left out after a oil can it installed. It needs to meter the air from any oil can back to the intake. It is a calculated air leak and the only device that OBD-II can not monitor, it simply makes you engine last longer and perform correctly with a carb, throttle body or port EFI. A fixed orafice is better than none at all. DK, ASE master tech since 78.
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Great video, I used this PCV valve on my 2017 GM 2.4l GDI Ecotec. I blocked off the internal fixed orifice, installed it with a catch can. Fresh air circuit is stock, and still a closed system. I installed a vacuum fitting on my valve cover and ran tubing into the car with a manometer. It can precisely measure low levels of vacuum and pressure. I was able to tune both circuits much better while driving under various road conditions, loads and speeds. I get regular crankcase vacuum .1 -.3 inHg, and .6" at wide open throttle. The engine is absolutely clean, factory compression, better than new mpg after 100k miles. I learned the importance of a proper PCV system back in the 80s with my first Buick V-6 engine. A PCV delete caused oil, leaks, oil consumptio, sludge and ruined the engine. An old timer high school auto shop teacher slapped some sense into me and never forgot it.
That's awesome! Thanks for sharing your detailed story for others to learn from!
Mike, I installed the M/E Wagner Adjustable PCV on my '71 Chevelle (SBC) after reading about it in Hemmings Muscle Machines - and I love the results. No oil consumption, oil stays clean and throttle response is great. One thing I had to do was to modify the baffle in the valve cover. I'm using a set of vintage M/T valve covers, and there was not enough clearance between the bottom of the PCV and the baffle. M/E recommended at least 3/8" clearance to avoid restricting the valve. That worked perfectly! Great guys at M/E Wagner.. super helpful!!
Thanks Bob! What an awesome testimonial... I totally agree, if you don't have adequate baffling before the valve, you'll be sucking oil. I'm about 2000 miles into mine, and I too have zero oil consumption, and the oil still looks new! Love it! Thanks again for the comment!
Mike, as a follow-up to my comments about the ME Wagner PCV Valve, I wanted to know if you had considered installing a catch can (air oil separator) inline with the hose before you route it back to your intake. The guys at Wagner said installing one is good insurance to keep your intake clean. Thoughts?
Hello Monty, thank you for the detailed video. I've now ordered one too. Greetings from Germany 🤩
Awesome! Have fun!
I just put one on my 70 Vette with a Dart 372..... Seems to be working great. I think it flows 2 or 3 times the air from the crankcase..
That sounds about right... glad it's working out! Thanks for sharing your story. Enjoy that clean oil for an extra 1000 miles. ha, ha...
This is great information. Early cars (before yours) just meatball the crank gasses into a carb... very messy and does not work unless you want to gum up your carb and have real problems. The old PCV valves have those weighted spring loaded mystery valves (like you showed) and those are next to useless. The "flam arrester pans" inside the case that keep oil out of the PCV are clogged most times so this is a place for super clean and a large plate is a must... as you said. My older cars just vent to atmosphere but I do have oil sludge issues. I really have no way to use this on most of my cars but just understanding the issues is SO important. Thank you for bringing this vastly overlooked issue up as it is key and a true tuning point. Remember too that high crankcase pressure will cause odd oil leaks. Thank You for this information. Bobby
Thanks Bobby! Love the testimonial. Totally agree that one of the symptoms of a poor PCV system is strange oil leaks, or even pushing your dipstick out of it's holder, as another subscriber mentioned. Much appreciated!
We gotta keep this information out there for guys like us! Bobby
@@bobeaseshop9389 I grew up in that era where everything was rebuilt in shop, adding pressurized oil filter systems, oil bathe air cleaners, draft tube is the name of non-PCV system which worked and legal but fumes came into the cabin as farmers & towns people in our rural area found rust and put it under the carpet for safe keeping. Delco sold a kit to convert these and I have a Delco PCV inlet for testing. It's like a tune. You read the spark plugs first, then a compression test & wrote it on the ticket. Second the distributor went on the Sun distributor machine. I still have Delco tubes of points cam lube as points needed adjusted or replaced every 3,000 to 6,000 miles. Adjusting the front drum brakes to pull straight was not only a job, but a question on the "Brake" test of the National Institute of Automotive Service Excellence or shortened to ASE. I was well into the Datsun dealer as one of three techs. They had 4 VW and 1 Porsche tech and nobody wanted to take the 8 test. The mgr offered $0.05 cents for each I took and passed. I got a $0.040 cent flat rate pay raise. But then, customer pay was only $24 per hour at the dealer in a Capital City. I was given all multiport EFI 1976 Datsun 280Z, multi-carb Convertible Roadsters (1600 & 2000) and some 240Z plus everything electrical. We had a new high school, but no shop. I apprenticed at a two man shop before moving to get a job with benefits. Then I woke up 40 years later! What happened?
Hello Mike. I watch all of your videos from my country and i appreciate to learn a lot because you speak clearly ans step by step. Thank you so much to share your knowledge 😊
That's great to hear! Thanks for being a part of the channel!
Just 2 hours ago finishedinstalling one on a mild 302 in my '31 Ford. The PCV that I was using was the same p/n as what I had on a well built 351W in another car but for some reason sucked lots of oil even with a small air - oil separator on the 302. Due to time constraints with having to remove that separator because of where it was installed am hoping that I wont have to find a way to reinstall. Oh well, simple project once I plowed through 8 pages of info 2-3 times.
yeah, lot's or re-reading instructions for me too... but, I love this valve! Hopefully it helped your situation! Thanks for the comment!
I got a 5.7 l 350 put a high-rise intake and a bigger carburetor runs great the problem is every time I get on it it sucks all through the PVC
Yeah, that makes sense... this PVC valve will help tremendously. Have fun!
Sold! Been looking at this for awhile and your great video made me pull the trigger.
Great to hear! I have about 700 miles on it so far... zero oil consumption, and the oil still looks brand new. Awesome side affect of having a perfect PCV system. Have fun!
Awesome review! Bought one for my GTO
Thanks Kyle! You're gonna love it!
Been using this for a few years. It’s awesome 👏🏼
Great to hear, Brian! I just finished my first 500 miles with it installed... zero oil loss, and the oil looks brand new! Where in the past it would already start turning brown. Crazy! Thanks for the comment!
Can't wait to see the Pontiac Show. Very nice work on your car Mike.
Thanks Jose! Yeah, got a few interviews at the show too... my best so far.
You explained this so well! The drawings really helped. Very interesting device. Thanks for posting this
Thanks Brother! Yeah, I love the concept... after my debacle with my PCV plumbing, everyone needs to know. Thanks again!
@@FastMonty *sister, actually... ;)
@@RestorationObsession Ohhh my gosh. What a horribly rude, and sexist assumption I just made, eh? So sorry... Thanks for correcting me, my Sister!
@@FastMonty LOL no worries my friend! :) Thank you.
Hi nice engine paint who's did you go with very nice is your motor 389 or 400?
Thanks Johnny... it's the rattle can paint from Inline Tube. Here's the video where I painted it; ruclips.net/video/Zt9r-xWeMQo/видео.htmlsi=UVrO9y59uc4BZJIB Oh, it WAS a 400. It's now a Butler 470 :)
Very good. I never new a stock PCV might not work in HP engines. Thanks!
Yeah, I didn't either... very cool idea. Look up their website...
Cool piece of tech. A great mod for a classic car
Totally agree. Thanks for the comment!
Cool bit of kit Mike. I got to make note of that to get one for my 400. I'm ready for the Poncho show video now. :-)
Ha! Yeah, it'll be a good show. And one heck of a test drive for the Goat.
Great auto part !
Been thinking of using !
Thanks for taking the time to explain !
Happy B-day !
Thanks Chris! Yeah, very cool part to add to your arsenal. Thanks for the comment, and birthday wishes...
I'll have to try one of those. $160 is worth it to keep from burning oil. I run a oil catch can with a bronze filter, works great, but this would be batter.
Agreed! I love it! Thanks!
Why do I need a pcv valve ? My stock Oldsmobile just had a vent cap with a hose going to the intake. Could you tell me if this is good enough, or why it might be bad?
I recently rebuilt the motor and installed and open atmosphere vent. So I’m not sucking in all that oil vapor. However, when is running Oil vapor starts to collect on top of the valve cover. Yeah I Probably got some blow by. I just need to last a little while longer.
Good question. All naturally aspirated engines need a PCV, or evac system. The vent cap with tube was your PCV. Your engine needs some sort of mechanism to remove the excess blow by from your crankcase. If you've been running without it, change your oil immediately, and get that fixed. Keep us posted. Thanks!
Mike it is Dave with the ULTRA RAM ok After I had the install of ACES EFI Joker Multi port It started a bad oil leak 360 chevy I had the PVC hooked up With the new Ultra Ram I dunno if it is not needed or my tuner just forgot to hook it up So my 1st question is NEEDND on the ultra ram 2nd question not being hooked up will you more prone to oil leak I know that sounds like a stupid question Thanks Dave Dad's Ole Garage
Dave... good questions. ONE, ALL engines require an adequate PCV system to clear out harmful fumes. If you don't have one, or it's not working well, excessive pressure can build in the crankcase, which tends to push oil into places it shouldnt be ... like outside the engine. :) Make sure your PCV is hooked up correctly!
@@FastMonty Thank you for the info I just ordered one
I never thought twice about my pcv valve. My engine only makes 8in of manifold vacuum at idle. If i understand it correctly that means my stock valve probably wasn’t closing at idle. My idle is rough which I figured was the cam (sounds cool.) I wonder if it was partially due to the pcv being open? I ordered the Wagner valve. I wonder if it will give me more idle vacuum which my brake booster could really use. Who knows, I don’t understand it but I can follow instructions so I ordered one.
Good choice! Let us know how your engine performs after install. My biggest win was my oil stayed "new" for wayyy longer. And, of course, I can rev easier now too. Have fun!
Great Info Mike I will have to get one for mine
Thanks Brian... yeah, sure doesn't hurt to get the PCV system tuned correctly.
my oil dipstick pops out about an inch almost every time i drive my 68 GTO w/455 & 5 speed tremec. Could it be excess crankcase pressure from a faulty PCV system?
That's exactly what's going on... get that fixed! Read up on the symptoms on W/E Wagners' site.
Same thing used to happen to me when I had the PCV in the drivers side valve cover. I did what Mike had and returned to a stock style Valley pan, put the PCV back in the pan and added a second breather on the drivers side. Eliminated the problem completely.
@@stevebrown6175 Great testimonial, thanks Steve!
Great video! I think I’ll be purchasing one of these for my 406” Pontiac 400. Going in a 75 Formula 400 Firebird. Wish you would have showed a pic of the valve after you had everything assembled. I’ll be running mine from the valley pan. So I would’ve liked to seen how you had yours setup, even though I’m running a Holley 800cfm spreadbore carb and FI.
Yeah, good call... so worth the money to have an adequate PCV system. I'll have to think of a video that shows it installed. It's kinda tough to see as I ran the hose underneath the manifold. Which is good. Have fun!
I just have an open system, this being said couldn't I install this in the lower section of my airgap manifold? I just got 439,906 miles on my sbc but I had Zero sludge in my engine, My ENTIRE block has been polished and I only run Amsoil and dual filters. My engine failed due to tampering.
Not sure how to answer your question... it should go near where your standard PCV valve is supposed to go. Sorry, I'm not an expert on SBC engines, but sounds like you got some fantastic life out of the last build.
Nice job, still waiting for my engine so this is all good stuff. Thanks
What show?
Thanks Dan! It's a smaller show in SoCal at the Automobile Driving Museum. Pontiacs Only. I conducted a few different interviews. One of which will blow your mind. Thanks again!
Mike, I don’t believe you’ve listed the valley pan grommet with the 1/2” opening. I’m splitting my manifold like you’ve done and would prefer to use just the grommet rather than the adapter. Thanks!
Good point Kevin... here it is... butlerperformance.com/i-24724590-rpc-push-in-pcv-grommet-for-pontiac-aluminum-valley-pans-75-id-1-2-od-rpc-s4998.html?ref=search:https%3A%2F%2Fbutlerperformance.com%2Fsearch.html%3Fq%3Dpcv
Thanks Mike! Love your videos, they’ve been lots of help.
@@kevinmason9579 Great to hear! Thanks!
I like the idea I can’t find much of any aftermarket pcv/crankcase flow valves or setup like that.
What about turbo motors though?
I think only plausible would be two check valves two vac lines one to turbo intake and one to intake manifold one check valve that closes intake vac line under boost and one that flows only into turbo intake when boost is present.
Idle no boost:vac from intake (vac hose to turbo intake check valve won’t allow vac to pull though)
Boost: vac from turbo intake (other check valve on vac line from intake manifold closes holds boost in manifold)
It’s weird looking up manufacturers and how there pcv/oil separator valves flow and regulate.
In theory that would work. Typically most aftermarket superchargers or turbos require the use of a belt driven evac pump. Especially at boost because there's a lot more blow by versus a standard engine. If you find out anything different, let us know. Thanks for the comment.
First time I’ve actually seen one of these cool devices. Seems to be well matched for cars with 12” vacuum or more. Does the fixed orifice configuration essentially bypass all of the adjustability?
Good question Steve... Fixed orifice is still adjustable, it just doesn't swap over from idle to cruise. It's purely based on idle vacuum. It's well explained on the W/E Wagner Site. I love it!
Does fitech recommend having it in a fixed position like holley does ?
Not sure what you mean? Have what in a fixed position?
Monty..dude I really want see more of ur gto running and just in general, I think sweet build an star of the show..you don't show it nearly enough..there are folks that love gtos want see them every video you should least show a intro slide show of it every episode
Hmmm, good idea Joseph. I'll have to figure out how to implement that into every intro. I really wish I had my own camera guy to film me when I'm doing driving events, like the Drag Racing one... I asked someone to shoot for me. Thanks for looking out! See ya!
No problem FM..look forward seeing more!
Do you plug that in to Manifold or port vac?
All PCV's should plumb to the big fat Manifold vacuum port. Thanks!
I have found a more common issue with standard PVC valves regardless of where you put them in the return system. At low rpm with a 3/8" line to the PVC valve to the base of the carb, it has so much vacuum going to it the valve flutters so bad at low rpm the valve gets extra hot from the friction of all the fluttering! ( Note Pontiac V8s do it the most ) To cure this issue I installed a vacuum restrictor in the line. True, I am still pumping oil mist back into the intake, but at a greatly reduced amount to the point the flutter is gone, and the hot PVC valve is now much cooler. I have to replace my rod bearings, timing chain & oil pump about every 15,000 miles because it's a balls to the wall race motor with a forged crank & rods that I twist it up over 8,000 rpm all the time in the traps. So far over all the tear downs there was no sludge or extra build up anywhere, so I assume that restriction the PVC system to stop the fluttering is the way to go for my application. I am not advising anyone to do this, I am just saying if your having the fluttering PVC vale issue, this is one way out.
Very interesting Mike... I've honestly never heard that before. Thanks for sharing! My PVC gets hot too... but, it is connected to a hot piece of Iron, lol.
Can you provide part numbers
Please check the description of the video, they should all be there. Thanks!
before 1963, no engines even had a PCV valve in USA, they had road draft tubes. the blowby gases blew downward out a dump tube behind the engine. it's a good idea to pull vacuum on an engine, and remove blowby, it helps the rings keep oil out of the combustion chamber- but it's a BAD IDEA, to then take oil mist and blowby, and put it back into the intake manifold ! oil dilutes the gas charge, and actually causes DETONATION. spark knock. it will effectively LOWER the octane rating of the fuel you are using ! there should be a catch can between the pcv valve and intake manifold fitting, to remove the oil mist completely. Bill Jenkins used pan vac fittings in the header collectors, in conjunction with a PCV valve, catch can, on his pro stock Chevys back in the 1970's. The entire system is described in detail in his old Chevrolet Racing Engine manual. the PCV would pull at idle, part throttle, and the pan vac headers system would pull at wide open throttle. the system worked so well he had to remove the valve stem seals, to lubricate the valves, as they were running dry. the LAST THING you want to do, is put WOT level blowby oil mist, directly into the intake manifold ! take a look inside your intake manifold after you use that pcv valve for a few years, you'll see it's all grimey with oil. GM 3800 II engines would actually have a pool of oil inside the floor of the plastic intake manifold ! it's got to be captured with a catch can, or into the headers, or at least out a dump tube. you don't want it in the intake manifold. the slightest bit of oil mist in the intake, will drive a high compression racing engine into detonation.
Good stuff! Totally agree. I'm checking the manifold intake line religiously for any signs of oil, and/or mist. Thanks for sharing!
I agree with you . The hose has to be oil resistant and stiff . I would think a larger diameter as well and form a loop . At the bottom of the loop would be your catch can . You could see the effectiveness by having a drain valve at the bottom of the can .
Will theis pcv valve work on a 5.7 hemi 3rd gen?
If it uses a "standard" pcv, yes. Sorry, I'm just not familiar with that engine. But, all engines have some sort of pcv valve. Let us know what you find out.
Nice video. Thanks for the great install information. I noticed your FiTech and a different FI manifold that is different than tue one you had in your FI video series. What intake are you using and how did you get it to work with your FiTech? Unless you have a video I missed maybe?
Thanks Rick... great catch. During my last rebuild I switched to a Torker II with port injection provisions. I currently have FiTech injectors in those rails. But, they're not operational, yet. Next step is to dyno the Throttle Body injection. Then, convert to Port Injection and dyno again. A great comparison... stay tuned!
Cool video Mike . August 30th is Fast Monty's Birthday so , everyone wish Mike a Happy Birthday.🎉🎊🎂🎆✌😂
Ha! Thanks John!
Sorry to bother you but I was searching for the Wagner PCV valve online and up comes this valve looks exactly like the Wagner. They call it an inline billet dual flow pcv valve. Do you know anything about this? apparently it connects to hoses and not to the valve cover or valley pan. Very strange but its $24.99. Im not going to buy it but Im curious about this item
Ha! Too funny... I have no idea. It sounds like a cheap knock off. Thanks for the heads up!
Yo Fast Monty. Why do you have a FiTech and Fuel rails? And what Cam are you running?
Ha! Good catch Ryan... in the next few months I'm going to be doing a dyno comparison between a FiTech Throttle Body, and FiTech's Port Injected solution. (Which isn't invented yet :)) So, the rails are not operational, yet. The cam is a custom Roller Grind from Butler 282/288, 230/236, .510/.521, 112 LS Here; butlerperformance.com/i-25039411-butler-comp-sp-street-performance-billet-roller-cam-hr-282-288-230-236-510-521-112-ls-std-firing-order-std-journals.html?ref=category:1272239 Stay tuned!
@@FastMonty Very similar specs to my Comp stump puller cam from SD Performance. Its 286/289, 230/236 but at .565/.570 lift. I had it ground at 114. I absolutely love this cam. Lots of vacuum and smooth idle.
Its great to see someone who love Pontiacs as much as me showing how all the trick parts work. Keep up the great work and I look forward to seeing the port injection in the future.
@@rohrt1 Ohhh nice! I've heard great things about the "Stump Puller". Yeah, our cams put out massive torque, which puts the smile on your face, as you're mashing the pedal. Ha, ha... Thanks again for sharing your details. See ya!
Are you running port injection with the FiTech injectors?
Great question Anthony... yes, they're FiTech injectors in those rails. But, they're not operational, YET. Gonna Dyno the Throttle Body version, then Dyno the Port injected version. Stay tuned for that!
@@FastMonty you can't slip stuff past me pal! Lol. So will you delete the injectors in the throttle body? ....well I guess I can't make you give away your next podcast. Lol
Thanks for all your work!
@@anthonydavis5993 HA! I think you're the first to catch it. Although I kind of explained it in my Torker II video. Anyway, after we dyno the existing throttle body, we replace it with a throttle body designed for port injection. So, there's obviously no fuel rails or injectors inside the next throttle body. We shall see!
@@FastMonty yes Sir, of course being a car detective I had to investigate.... Lol
Looking forward to the next vid my man. Such a cool car, and it has a Pontiac motor! Thank you! Lol
@@anthonydavis5993 Ha! Thanks for keeping me on my toes. Next vid should be fun... back to car shows.
great info as usual!
Thanks Chad!
Crankcase ventilation is one of the most overlooked and misunderstood mods you can do to a high compression or high rpm 4 cycle engine. Anyone who tells you to eliminate the pcv system and just let it vent to atmosphere is missing the boat. A well laid out pcv system can drastically improve engine performance.
Thanks Andrew! Totally agree, which is why I love this valve so much.... someone took the time to design it right. Thanks again.
@@FastMonty Harley Davidson engines are notorious for spraying oil everywhere, especially when meat heads attempt to "hotrod" them and rev them over 5000rpm alot. They were never designed to be wound up like crotch rocket. All that displacement with a crankcase that tiny, results in all kinds of problems when their pushed hard for more than a couple minutes. A vacuum pump would certainly help those bikes.
@@andrewbecker3700 Yup, a vacuum pump would be ideal for all engines. lol Thanks!
@@andrewbecker3700 I heard about the Wagner valve. Little bit expensive for me. I've also heard of a sort of closed system that pulls actual vacuum from the carb (race engines using vac pumps), but there is no "ventilation".
I'm designing a system, no fully my idea but thinking it could work.
I'm using 3 of the Billet aluminum pcv valves you can get (I might add a forth) but gutting the regular parts inside of them.
They will all get a ball bearing check valve installed inside them.
The one Billet pcv valve will be connected to the intake (run through a catch can) like a regular pcv valve. The line is also going through an adjustable unit I'm building. It can be fine tuned for maximum vacuum allowed in that line. Once the max vac is reached, it opens up the ball bearing valve and vents vacuum. That line will connect to my air filter so it will be clean air entering the system. I will also add a needle valve in line so I can adjust the actual flow of whole system.
The other 2 Billet units will be located on the opposite, passenger side valve cover. Those have check valve ball bearings inside also, and will also connect directly to the main air filter for clean air. Those 2 units should build a vacuum but once I'm at full throttle with no manifold vacuum, they open up and allow flow into the air filter. The pcv valve on the drivers side valve cover will also stay open and allow blow by gasses to escape (not as much as the passenger side) while at full throttle.
I'm thinking a max crankcase vacuum of 10" should be good. Some racers build 16" crankcase vacuum in a sbc with no problems.
My engine at idle only makes 5" of vac due to the big mutha thumper comp cam in installed. Cruising at 3000 rpms it makes 15".
Do you think the flow through the system will/could have enough flow to keep the oil cleaner?
Right now I'm just venting to atmosphere and I have strange oil leaks. (motor has all new seals everywhere), this is why I'm doing this whole mod.
I don't put many miles on the car per year either.
Hello Mike. Do you know if an oil leak issue at low rpm but not at idle is a pcv valve issue ? I have a c3 corvette and when i open the hood at idle i don't see any leak but after a cruise i can see oil on the frame etc...
Good question. Do you know where the oil is coming from? ie valve covers, oil pan gasket, etc? A pcv issue (ie excess crankcase pressure can happen at any rpm) Let me know.
Hello Mike. From everywhere. But mostly from the valve cover and between the intake manifold and the surface block where the gasket is. I thought it was a leak from the oil gallery plug in front of the block too but i know I'm wrong now.
@@labalade_7791 Ohhh man, sorry to hear that. Definitely get that gasket changed out. If the PCV is indeed creating too much crankcase pressure, the oil will find it's way out by the path of least resistance. Keep us posted!
@@FastMonty hello Mike. I just received the new pcv like yours. Hope to definitely solve this issue .
@@labalade_7791 Awesome... I hope it helps too. You still might need new gaskets.. valley pan, valve covers, etc... good luck!
I wish there was a -10 ORB fitting adapter for it
Maybe they can make one for you?
@@FastMonty I think I will get a -10 ORB to -12 ORB adapter, the base of this pcv valve is the same as -12 ORB. My idea is to place it on the outlet of a sealed oil catch can instead of the valve cover on my inline pcv system.
@@DWGarageProject Ahhh, very interesting. Have fun!
Mike love your channel how smooth does your engine idle? I have the exact cam but have considered sending it back and using a114 Lsa rather than 112 I want a smooth idle
It idles great, about 800 rpm... you can kind of tell in this video too. Not sure if that helps?
PCV valves are not created equally. A stock engine has a calibrated spring and valve assembly. It is when changes are made that effect manifold vacuum, the PCV activity & volume change. While domestic engines run a 18-19" of vacuum, imports ran 20-22" for years. How tight the ring, piston & cylinder wall fit are all factors. OBD-II caused improvements few know and vacuum climbed. Changing intake port volume, large tube headers, compression ratio, valve stem/guide clearance plus positive stem seals all change intake vacuum.
Water is a by-product of burning a fossil fuel, blow by that forms carbon, raw fuel vapors for cold start & short trips all end up as pressure in the crankcase. The 99-04 LS truck engine pulls thru a PCV valve in the drivers side rocker cover and wears the tips of the valve stem, leaving witness marks and need dressed.
Basically, the intake valve is frequently left out after a oil can it installed. It needs to meter the air from any oil can back to the intake. It is a calculated air leak and the only device that OBD-II can not monitor, it simply makes you engine last longer and perform correctly with a carb, throttle body or port EFI. A fixed orafice is better than none at all. DK, ASE master tech since 78.
Good stuff Dean! Thanks for the education!
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If our Canadian dollar wasn’t such a turd, I’d buy one for my 1970 Z/28. $129 USD = $165.13 CAD
Not to worry John, I'm sure the US Dollar will crash soon. Then you can get a new PCV Valve! Ha, ha...