Agree. Unreal test equipment and knowledge. Gene rules. The only thing I'm waiting for is Gene to force receiver and amp manufacturers to voluntarily or be REQUIRED to give us 5,7,and All channels driven wattage outputs! I've been done with 2 channels driven and never being told by the manufacturers what the actual surrounds etc are getting! Thanks for the awesome info, Gene
Thanks for the update video and the additional measurement work Gene. You're a consummate profressional that really cares about getting to the bottom of truth. Your hard work has paid off with a wonderful surprise of improved results. That's really great news.
Gene is simply the best there is regarding home audio equipment reviews. So few reviewers back up their findings with measurements and those that do often have a narrow focus on a single measurement. Gene, his affiliate James Larsen on speakers and Erin of Erin's Audio Corner (also speakers) are the ones to follow.
Making and correcting a mistake is the detention of science. I highly commend you coming back with a video to correct the record and your dedication to obtaining the proper measurement. Thanks for your work!
Thanks Gene!! waiting excitedly for the amp10 review.. so I can be sure about spending WAAAY MOOORE money then I'd planned for my HT upgrade. Coming from a Denon AVR X6200W from 2015.
I mainly use the AV 10 for 2 channel and I'm so impressed with the performance over the 8802A prior. The 8802A was really good but the AV 10 is clearly better. It is so cool to have a the best of both worlds( 2 channel and surround sound) in one unit. Yes it's expensive but it's such a good upgrade that I'm still very happy that I bought.
If you love to hear hiss and distortion, then no...SINAD is not a factor to take in consideration... But for me, is one of the most other important factors that I take in consideration when judging the quality of an audio product.
@@florinbizu7583 after a certain point SINAD is irrelevant, SINAD can also be manipulated in several ways to produce nice results, including increasing the voltage out of the device. A SINAD at 1khz is useless.
@@GuiltyRocker I agree. Measured at just 1 KHz sinewave, is not relevant. It should be made multiple measurement in full audio spectrum, at 2 to 4V output, EQ on in 0 dB, than raised up to +6dB at 30 to 60 Hz, 10Khz, 16 KHz and finally up to 20 Khz.
I saw another RUclipsr walk through how the testing envelope/range can really effect the results. I wish I had the reference on hand to share. But the takeaway was that Audio Science Reviews chart leading Topping products, really only outshine their competitors under the specific test conditions that ASR does. Sorry to be fussy on the details everyone, it’s a powerful insight that the numerous parameters of the audio precision can shape how one product appears ahead of another. Which is no fault to ASR who chose their test parameters with thoughtful consideration, and tests with standardized consistency. It’s just the nature of the beast that with so many counter factuals, and narrowing degrees of freedom, that some products are going to fit really well into the parameters and others aren’t. I think this test synergy, is analogous to the observed phenomenon of some products having mellifluous synergy. That is perhaps not readily apparent in the single nominal value of input impedance and output impedance for one example. All our nominal values are poor substitutions to spectrally diverse dynamics, that are better represented as undulating charts. To the point that it may even be worth reporting on segments of the spectrum in granular detail. Maybe following inspiration from common crossover points in 2way and 3 way speakers. Which would be highly relevant for impedance and damping factor. Information that would actually be really useful in the context of projecting behavior with a speaker of known characteristics. An example being a class d amplifier with rolling off high frequency current delivery and a speaker with 8ohm woofers and 4 ohm tweeters. The receiver and the speaker could both be nominally rated at 6ohms but be mutually incompatible in the high frequency range.
Right on right on… is there an analog multi channel in? That connection seems to be going away. Glad my marantz still has it. I love hdmi, but some blurays sill sound amazing with that outdated surround sound connection. Just my opinion. Cheers
honestly, Gene, i'd buy the AV 10 based on glowing praise alone! let alone these amazing measurements! it isn't just what's being said.. it's by whom it's being said just as much. in my humble opinion.. but it is awesome you are out here making certain we are very well informed, and re-informed if need be! your amazing sir! keep up the O.C.D..!.. I I MEAN THE GOOD WORK! lol lol lol, we love ya buddy!
Simple and direct question, does the marantz AV 10 compared to the Marantz AV 8805\A have a better sound?, by better sound I mean more precision, greater details, more spatiality, more channel separation, more three-dimensional stereophony and better than the 8805A? It's more musical and has a cinematic timbre like trinnov or storm audio thanks
With the exception of adding a better control in full spectrum frequencies and time impulse domain offered by Dirac Live, there is no significant improvement in audio quality rendition. Just more channels...and a front design with lights.
Did they fix the arc connectivity issue? I bought a Nad processor, and never have had a problem. I like Marantz but it's too damn complicated, independent Control of video sound for each source is difficult. Video select on a Marantz is difficult.
Hi Gene, good review as always . I own the AV 8805A and I am happy with the bass I get. Any other reason I should consider upgrading the the AV10 ? Thanks
@@Audioholics LOL and it seems like the best processor pre-amplifier released in the last 5 years. Look at there DAC analog out board. 8 x dedicated stereo DACS per pair channels. Can't wait for Audio Advice to sell this enmasse.
Hi Gene. I have a Anthem AVM 60 Processor. I am looking to upgrade to a processor with more power to push my AMP (McIntosh 8207) with better sound and better video processing. Would the AV10 accomplish this? I strictly use my system for watching movies; discs only. My 8207 drives my B&W 702’s, B&W HTM82, B&W CM 8’s and B&W 706’s and I have 2 B&W DB4S subs and 1 B&W CM 12. Any insight and advice would be greatly appreciated. Jeff
I'm hoping someone can explain a comment made in the review. It says that the AV 10 "isn't a true differential design" when discussing the balanced XLR outputs. This was also mentioned in the previous video. What does this mean and in what circumstances would this matter? Thank you!
Most consumer audio doesn't use fully complimentary circuit paths from input to output. Instead, they use a phase splitter to get a balanced output. It's more cost effective and simple to do this. You still get good ground immunity but don't realize the full distortion reducing benefits of a true differential circuit. Regardless, the distortion is so low in this case, it doesn't really matter.
@@Audioholics It could still matter for the cables though? Please correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't balanced cable runs mitigate external noise much better than non-balanced?
@@Audioholics Thank you! I don't think I've ever heard that explained before. Do any processors have a true differential design? Do you have to step up to the Stormaudio-class to get that level of quality?
Everything matters in audio quality rendition, but in AV10 you will find many cheap tech solution implemented - not a true differential design in XLR output, is one of them.
Quick question, will there be or has there been a firmware update for the AV10 to relocate the on screen display of the volume level? I'm using an anamorphic lens with my NZ8 projector and consequently I cannot have onscreen volume display with the AV10. I can choose top or bottom but it places it right at the edge so in the stretch mode for the anamorphic lens, the volume display is off the screen. Thanks, Monte.
Hi how are you? This has nothing to do with this video but I was wondering if you could recommend a good flat speaker wire that I could run underneath my carpet?
Not sure if this is related to measurements but I have a Marantz SR014 connected to a stereo integrated amp (AVR pre outs to amp RCA inputs). The integrated amp has an auto shut down function when it detects no signal after 30 minutes, and I have found the amp shuts down when AVR is being used. So, I connected an am/fm tuner to the amp and it did not power down. Does this mean the AVR signal at the pre-out is somewhat weaker than the tuner?
Gene, from one engineer to another, you do a great job in your critical reviews. But after 45 years of being an audiophile, trying 5.1 for 20 years, I went back to 2.1 and that's all I need.
Do you think the price will drop any since its been out 1 year , are they going to keep the price point at 7K retail until Kamala gets in and raise it to 10K ?
One of the things that really bugs me about processors and AVRs is that they very rapidly become obsolete, whether it's because of newer audio or video standards, or newer hardware standards like HDMI versions. I would probably buy the AV10, but not if I have to throw it away in 3 years, and I cannot find anything about whether this unit will last through these kinds of updates. Is the hardware and software upgradeable?
You can expect new technology to improve on AV hence why you don’t go all in on AV. The noise/distortion is so small the difference is not noticeable on premium gear. The only reason I even considered AV 10 was for balanced outputs. If you spend 7k on AV10 you can expect another AV to supersede AV 10 in 3+ yrs. You can’t recoup that 7k since no one even in used will spend 7k when something less does better. Also don’t go all in on DACs since technology also evolving rapidly. Expect other premium AV gear from Marantz in 2024/2025 less than AV10 perhaps does not do it all but close enough. I go all in on AMPs and speakers since you can keep premium AMPs and speakers for a very long time 5 - 10 yrs even more if they are well built they last forever.
Hey Gene. It would be nice if you answered me back about my questions I had asked you about my Def tech bp 2002s. And hooking them up to a 5 channel power amp through my pioneer elite vsx-82txs receiver. But nothing yet. Thanks
@@peterv.7409 I would say they should pursue a more neutral sound but I think a lot of people like the way they, and Denon, sound. I think a lot of their customers expect a warmer sound from them. I'm just not one of those. Personally, I prefer Yamaha and Pioneer Elite. It's a shade brighter and more detailed.
@@batman.darthmaul I think that is what the selectable DAC filter gives you; "slow" for the Marantz warmth (filter #1), or "fast" for testing/Denon flat sound (filter #2).
@@peterv.7409 Well, I haven't heard the Marantz so I can't say whether switching the DAC to a slow roll-off will cure the dark sound, but my current pre-pro, a Yamaha, has the same feature. Switching to the fast roll-off does not make the unit dark-sounding.
What keeps me away from buying Marantz is that damn too small window display.. I want to see more info that just isnt possible on that tiny display. Redesign needed!
I here you! I have the Same question I'm om the fence. Just looking to get the most Bang for my Buck. But I've also had products from both companies. If I'm hearing correctly the AV 10 gives you functions close to Trinnov and maybe Strom Audio offer.
Hey Gene, hopefully you can help! Love your channel and your updates. Please help a semi newbie here. I have my Klipsh sub connected to my Denon rec. I have my sub connected by the LFE, should I turn the crossover dial all the way and use my rec to control the crossover? I have heard so many things. I need an experts answer With many thanks
Not really interested in covering Emotiva products anymore. I've had too many die after the warranty expired. Also, they never got bass management quite right on prior models. I hope the RMC1 and newer units fixed those issues.
I have stopped following these reviews for a while now. It seems like, in the last four years at least, there is a lack of killer application for these systems. I own a, now ancient, Yamaha adventage 5200, and the additional benefits of these newer systems seem to be the ability to handle yet more speakers. Even in my ancient 7.1.4, I already have 12 speakers and it seems to me the added ability to handle16 speakers is not even an incremental benefit. Most streaming programs, stream in 5.1 or 7.1 (ok, you can upscale the audio) audio and 4K video. 8K in the house seems a product for those few who have HUGE houses. The only thing I would definitely like is the ability to switch input faster, the 5200 is pretty slow in synchronising HDMI, but that is not worth it the price. These systems seem to be, at the moment, a solution in search of a problem, question is, what is the next killer feature worth it a few grands for upgrading?
Let's talk about expectations from an AV flagship processor in 2023, because I'm sick and tired to wait for a much better version in term of options and audio quality rendition, comparing with the 14 years old Denon AVP A1HDA, which I owned. Digital technology implemented in flagships AV processors (of different mass producers like the ones of the top 3 in the world - Denon, Marantz, Yamaha - not the more 'exotic' brands like Lyngdorf, StormAudio or Trinnov) has to be comparable on the level of digital components and technology used in flagships of smartphone producers like Huawei, Xiaomi, Samsung, Apple, Honor. Because in digital tech, what is a flagship component today, will become obsolete in just a year or two... This is why in 2023, I don't want to buy old, outdated technology at an unjustified cost! Only the newest and best-performing components have to be used and I don't see this in AV10 or in the Denon AVR A1H... In regards only to the audio side of the Marantz AV10... My level of expectation at 7000 USD (or even more) is that I need one AV unit to sound like a flagship stereo, on ALL channels! BTW...let's be totally honest... ...who is using a 16...19 channels configuration in a living room, or even in a dedicated home cinema room? Or zones... Zone 2, zone 3... Who is really willing to deploy kilometers of wires for zone 2 or zone 3 connections in which the end result is to play the same music everywhere, instead of separate very good quality audio components in those rooms? We are not talking about hearing the same music in corridors or on an elevator of a hotel, because who really wants this? Also, who is really using HEOS?? This is a GADGET zone, NOT a high-end area... Sabre DAC ES 9018 used inside AV10? Why not at least ESS 9039Pro or AKM4191EQ? Or dedicated very low noise stereo DAC in dual differential mode per channel? As a flagship product in 2023, it should have! And where is HDCD decoding? Audiophile CD format is not dead, SACD is not dead, and Dolby Digital is not dead... In the audiophile community, we are still spinning HDCD CDs, SACD discs, and DVD Audio discs - and for HDCD, we need that decoder also. Even vinyl is not dead, and in 2023 we still not having a decent phono preamplifier for both MM and MC cartridges in a flagship AV processor... Talking about being in 2023...where is streaming and decoding native DSD1024 audio files? I want to see ultra-low noise separate power supplies inside of a top-of-the-line AV processor... This is the level of quality that I expect from a Marantz or Denon AV processor flagship, in 2023. RCA connectors are made from gold-plated brass? This is NOT desirable, because of brass's low conductivity. It should be made at least from silver or gold-plated OFC copper (again... I'm modest...I'm not mentioning pure silver-made connectors...). I want to see OCC pure copper or OCC pure silver wires used in inside cabling! Talking further...what OP-AMP is used inside? No info here... Also, the producer did not offered no tech spec at launch in regarding DAC inside, what brand of capacitors have been used, SINAD, output volume, etc, etc.. I want an upscale even from DVD definition, to 4k and 8k resolution! McIntosh is having same marketing and publicity policy... No detailed info regarding inside components used, and no tech info regarding very important audio performance in their flagship AV processor... Only high prices! With all due respect for these companies and their work, for an educated audiophile this is NOT acceptable.
The parts used inside matter much less than implementation and how the unit measures as a result. The AV 10 produced excellent results on the test bench. I have no complaints.
@@Audioholics I agree that electronic scheme implementation (and software) matters as well when it comes to a complex product like an AV processor is. But as I said before EVERYTHING matters when it comes to reach high quality audio rendition. That includes electronic components used inside. And not only on audio, but also on video section. I saw only one main power transformer used... This is also a cheap implementation of hardware, with weak results when it comes to many aspects both in audio and in video rendition. Let's not forget that we are talking about a flagship product!
@Florin Bizu Your assessment is very wrong. I showed with measurements that this unit is well engineered. The power supply is clean, the DAC implementation is nearly perfect. You're too hung up on individual parts and not looking at implementation and the end result.
@@Audioholics Am I wrong? "Nearly perfect'' is far from perfect, for me. How about crosstalk? How about speed and rendering micro and macrodinamics with precision... How about detail and resolution, how about not being able to play DSD at 512 or even more, at 1024... And when using the room acustics compensation from Audissey or Dirac, things in audio gets even more complicated, as you know already...We are talking about expectations achievable with technology, software and components that are available in 2023! Please compare the quality of construction of an 14 years old AVP A1 HDA (HDCI for the USA market), with AV10... In a blink of an eye, present AV10 is a shame!
All dose measurement doesn't mean it sounds good, Tirinnov and and Storm audio where not the best in measurement on paper a few years ago, but if you listen to the best of all the home theater processor, they came out first for audio immersive sound quality. cant wait to see your report on sound quality......
@@abdullahdanze2061 You're repeating exactly what i said, they did not have the best measurement, but they sound amazing.......measurement don't always go with the sound you hear.
@@abdullahdanze2061 The last time I've seen the report on measurement o the net on home theater processor, they where not on top, but they far better then some best home theater processor rated.png
Not Gene. And now he is defining Hi-Fi significant measure benchmark units. Industry should be paying Gene for common sense. Thank god no one @ Masimo is sending the AV10 to Amir to review. Maybe one oh his stooge patrons will buy a unit and send it to him. Down with SINAD!
I’m just not buying that the Marantz is a great product. Especially when we start referencing how great their previous products were because none of them have been. I don’t understand why Marantz can’t achieve good separation in sound but they just cannot. Show all the measurements you like, they are not great sounding. At best I would say Marantz doesn't quite avoid the smearing of sound you hear coming out of their systems but falls in line with anyone wanting a budget sound but not looking hard to discover much better sound at a similar cost.
Receiver, processor, amplifier "sounding" is often a personal preference based on your hearing and many other factors, but that doesn't necessarily mean the product isn't good and may be great for many other people. For example. I never liked the "sound" of Yamaha's "natural sound" receivers. For some reason it just didn't sound right to me. But Yamaha's 3-way Speakers sound really good to me. Weird! A lot of this may have to do with the chipsets etc used in a particular production line and the way those chips and processors analyze and output Dolby, DTS, or CD audio ,etc. I always thought Sony made cheap receivers and they left a lot to be desired on connections! But, I had a STR-DG510 receiver and out of the box, making no adjustments EQ etc wise and running a dvd/blu ray movie the Sony( I believe won an Audio award the year or two it came out) and I can say it was despite no banana plug connectors which I don't understand and hate standard "clip in bare wire", the DTS sound out of that unit was utterly perfect! Also, what speakers you use makes a huge difference! And the speakers may sound different with a Marantz than your favorite receiver/processor, but you can adjust about anything now ti achieve the "right sound" for you. Food for thought!
I challenge anyone to compare an AV7705 to a budget Denon (using Pre-Out) Atmos receiver. To me and I am willing to bet most people would choose the budget.Even the atmos processing was more accurate on the budget Denon. That being said Marantz may have improved. You need to hear it too and compare. Does it sound better than what it is compared to.
Nothing but respect. This is how you build and retain trust. Can’t wait for the results of the poweramp.
Yes, I want to see the 5,7, all channels driven test results!
Best reviewer of home theatre gear on the web
Agree. Unreal test equipment and knowledge. Gene rules. The only thing I'm waiting for is Gene to force receiver and amp manufacturers to voluntarily or be REQUIRED to give us 5,7,and All channels driven wattage outputs! I've been done with 2 channels driven and never being told by the manufacturers what the actual surrounds etc are getting! Thanks for the awesome info, Gene
Thanks for the update video and the additional measurement work Gene. You're a consummate profressional that really cares about getting to the bottom of truth. Your hard work has paid off with a wonderful surprise of improved results. That's really great news.
Thanks!
Gene is simply the best there is regarding home audio equipment reviews. So few reviewers back up their findings with measurements and those that do often have a narrow focus on a single measurement. Gene, his affiliate James Larsen on speakers and Erin of Erin's Audio Corner (also speakers) are the ones to follow.
Making and correcting a mistake is the detention of science. I highly commend you coming back with a video to correct the record and your dedication to obtaining the proper measurement. Thanks for your work!
Thanks
Thanks Gene!! waiting excitedly for the amp10 review.. so I can be sure about spending WAAAY MOOORE money then I'd planned for my HT upgrade. Coming from a Denon AVR X6200W from 2015.
I mainly use the AV 10 for 2 channel and I'm so impressed with the performance over the 8802A prior. The 8802A was really good but the AV 10 is clearly better. It is so cool to have a the best of both worlds( 2 channel and surround sound) in one unit.
Yes it's expensive but it's such a good upgrade that I'm still very happy that I bought.
A true engineer, always trying to get the most accurate info out to us.... great work mate
Thank you.
Would appreciate you addressing faux XLR [balanced] outputs. Not just on the Marantz, all preamps.
Very glad you call out SINAD as not a good number to judge a product on, we have a few sites pushing that nonsense.
If you love to hear hiss and distortion, then no...SINAD is not a factor to take in consideration... But for me, is one of the most other important factors that I take in consideration when judging the quality of an audio product.
@@florinbizu7583 after a certain point SINAD is irrelevant, SINAD can also be manipulated in several ways to produce nice results, including increasing the voltage out of the device. A SINAD at 1khz is useless.
@@GuiltyRocker I agree. Measured at just 1 KHz sinewave, is not relevant. It should be made multiple measurement in full audio spectrum, at 2 to 4V output, EQ on in 0 dB, than raised up to +6dB at 30 to 60 Hz, 10Khz, 16 KHz and finally up to 20 Khz.
Good job. I like your true to the "No Snake Oil" approach.
Can't wait to watch another one.
Awesome, thanks Gene! Definitely on my buy list.
I saw another RUclipsr walk through how the testing envelope/range can really effect the results. I wish I had the reference on hand to share. But the takeaway was that Audio Science Reviews chart leading Topping products, really only outshine their competitors under the specific test conditions that ASR does.
Sorry to be fussy on the details everyone, it’s a powerful insight that the numerous parameters of the audio precision can shape how one product appears ahead of another.
Which is no fault to ASR who chose their test parameters with thoughtful consideration, and tests with standardized consistency.
It’s just the nature of the beast that with so many counter factuals, and narrowing degrees of freedom, that some products are going to fit really well into the parameters and others aren’t.
I think this test synergy, is analogous to the observed phenomenon of some products having mellifluous synergy. That is perhaps not readily apparent in the single nominal value of input impedance and output impedance for one example.
All our nominal values are poor substitutions to spectrally diverse dynamics, that are better represented as undulating charts. To the point that it may even be worth reporting on segments of the spectrum in granular detail. Maybe following inspiration from common crossover points in 2way and 3 way speakers. Which would be highly relevant for impedance and damping factor. Information that would actually be really useful in the context of projecting behavior with a speaker of known characteristics.
An example being a class d amplifier with rolling off high frequency current delivery and a speaker with 8ohm woofers and 4 ohm tweeters. The receiver and the speaker could both be nominally rated at 6ohms but be mutually incompatible in the high frequency range.
I friggin love my Marantz Cinema 50!!!
Right on right on… is there an analog multi channel in? That connection seems to be going away. Glad my marantz still has it. I love hdmi, but some blurays sill sound amazing with that outdated surround sound connection. Just my opinion. Cheers
Have you ever done this with the 8805?
honestly, Gene, i'd buy the AV 10 based on glowing praise alone! let alone these amazing measurements! it isn't just what's being said.. it's by whom it's being said just as much. in my humble opinion.. but it is awesome you are out here making certain we are very well informed, and re-informed if need be! your amazing sir! keep up the O.C.D..!.. I I MEAN THE GOOD WORK! lol lol lol, we love ya buddy!
Simple and direct question, does the marantz AV 10 compared to the Marantz AV 8805\A have a better sound?, by better sound I mean more precision, greater details, more spatiality, more channel separation, more three-dimensional stereophony and better than the 8805A? It's more musical and has a cinematic timbre like trinnov or storm audio thanks
With the exception of adding a better control in full spectrum frequencies and time impulse domain offered by Dirac Live, there is no significant improvement in audio quality rendition. Just more channels...and a front design with lights.
Did they fix the arc connectivity issue? I bought a Nad processor, and never have had a problem. I like Marantz but it's too damn complicated, independent Control of video sound for each source is difficult. Video select on a Marantz is difficult.
Hi Gene, good review as always . I own the AV 8805A and I am happy with the bass I get. Any other reason I should consider upgrading the the AV10 ? Thanks
Only if you need more processing channels and more advanced bass management and routing.
@@Audioholics LOL and it seems like the best processor pre-amplifier released in the last 5 years. Look at there DAC analog out board. 8 x dedicated stereo DACS per pair channels.
Can't wait for Audio Advice to sell this enmasse.
Hi Gene.
I have a Anthem AVM 60 Processor. I am looking to upgrade to a processor with more power to push my AMP (McIntosh 8207) with better sound and better video processing. Would the AV10 accomplish this?
I strictly use my system for watching movies; discs only. My 8207 drives my B&W 702’s, B&W HTM82, B&W CM 8’s and B&W 706’s and I have 2 B&W DB4S subs and 1 B&W CM 12.
Any insight and advice would be greatly appreciated.
Jeff
Really impressive performance from Marantz! Curious how this measures so clean if they are still using their HDAM modules that add distortion?
New HDAM, maybe they improved?
I'm hoping someone can explain a comment made in the review. It says that the AV 10 "isn't a true differential design" when discussing the balanced XLR outputs. This was also mentioned in the previous video. What does this mean and in what circumstances would this matter? Thank you!
Most consumer audio doesn't use fully complimentary circuit paths from input to output. Instead, they use a phase splitter to get a balanced output. It's more cost effective and simple to do this. You still get good ground immunity but don't realize the full distortion reducing benefits of a true differential circuit. Regardless, the distortion is so low in this case, it doesn't really matter.
@@Audioholics It could still matter for the cables though?
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't balanced cable runs mitigate external noise much better than non-balanced?
@Mikkel Kirketerp they can, and the XLRs still have that benefit as I stated.
@@Audioholics Thank you! I don't think I've ever heard that explained before. Do any processors have a true differential design? Do you have to step up to the Stormaudio-class to get that level of quality?
Everything matters in audio quality rendition, but in AV10 you will find many cheap tech solution implemented - not a true differential design in XLR output, is one of them.
Quick question, will there be or has there been a firmware update for the AV10 to relocate the on screen display of the volume level? I'm using an anamorphic lens with my NZ8 projector and consequently I cannot have onscreen volume display with the AV10. I can choose top or bottom but it places it right at the edge so in the stretch mode for the anamorphic lens, the volume display is off the screen. Thanks, Monte.
Hi how are you? This has nothing to do with this video but I was wondering if you could recommend a good flat speaker wire that I could run underneath my carpet?
Not sure if this is related to measurements but I have a Marantz SR014 connected to a stereo integrated amp (AVR pre outs to amp RCA inputs). The integrated amp has an auto shut down function when it detects no signal after 30 minutes, and I have found the amp shuts down when AVR is being used. So, I connected an am/fm tuner to the amp and it did not power down. Does this mean the AVR signal at the pre-out is somewhat weaker than the tuner?
Hi sir gene, I'm waiting the new Yamaha aventage line, any news when they release? Before i decide which avr brand to buy. Thank you
So when Measurement's of mighty Denon A1H ????
Gene, from one engineer to another, you do a great job in your critical reviews. But after 45 years of being an audiophile, trying 5.1 for 20 years, I went back to 2.1 and that's all I need.
you dont need 2.1
go back to mono😂
Sometimes less is more
@@junior-OG i’m gonna going to my processor right now and hit the mono switch
2.2 is more than enough for me.
But for movies, surround is nice.
Do you think the price will drop any since its been out 1 year , are they going to keep the price point at 7K retail until Kamala gets in and raise it to 10K ?
One of the things that really bugs me about processors and AVRs is that they very rapidly become obsolete, whether it's because of newer audio or video standards, or newer hardware standards like HDMI versions. I would probably buy the AV10, but not if I have to throw it away in 3 years, and I cannot find anything about whether this unit will last through these kinds of updates. Is the hardware and software upgradeable?
I don’t think so. Last major update was Atmos. Other than that, nothing is a must have. 8k is far from a must have
@@SS-cs6wt "8k is far from a must have" So true. For me, not even Atmos is a "must have."
@@SS-cs6wt I guess it's time to find out what kind of systems they use at the movies. Maybe this would inform one of the potential for obsolescence.
@@SS-cs6wtdirac Art. There you go - another soon to be must have. Whether AV10 will get it very unclear.
You can expect new technology to improve on AV hence why you don’t go all in on AV. The noise/distortion is so small the difference is not noticeable on premium gear. The only reason I even considered AV 10 was for balanced outputs. If you spend 7k on AV10 you can expect another AV to supersede AV 10 in 3+ yrs. You can’t recoup that 7k since no one even in used will spend 7k when something less does better. Also don’t go all in on DACs since technology also evolving rapidly. Expect other premium AV gear from Marantz in 2024/2025 less than AV10 perhaps does not do it all but close enough. I go all in on AMPs and speakers since you can keep premium AMPs and speakers for a very long time 5 - 10 yrs even more if they are well built they last forever.
Hey Gene. It would be nice if you answered me back about my questions I had asked you about my Def tech bp 2002s. And hooking them up to a 5 channel power amp through my pioneer elite vsx-82txs receiver. But nothing yet. Thanks
This sounds like an impressive piece of gear. Unfortunately, Marantz tunes their DACs too dark for me.
Looks like they’ve added a selectable DAC filter.
@@peterv.7409 I would say they should pursue a more neutral sound but I think a lot of people like the way they, and Denon, sound. I think a lot of their customers expect a warmer sound from them. I'm just not one of those. Personally, I prefer Yamaha and Pioneer Elite. It's a shade brighter and more detailed.
@@batman.darthmaul I think that is what the selectable DAC filter gives you; "slow" for the Marantz warmth (filter #1), or "fast" for testing/Denon flat sound (filter #2).
@@peterv.7409 Well, I haven't heard the Marantz so I can't say whether switching the DAC to a slow roll-off will cure the dark sound, but my current pre-pro, a Yamaha, has the same feature. Switching to the fast roll-off does not make the unit dark-sounding.
What keeps me away from buying Marantz is that damn too small window display.. I want to see more info that just isnt possible on that tiny display. Redesign needed!
Flip the lid for the bigger display
How do you think this compares to the Anthem AVM 90?
Both are incredible in their own right. I'd be hard pressed to declare a winner.
@@Audioholics
Thank you. I am a new subscriber and really enjoy your content!
I here you! I have the Same question I'm om the fence. Just looking to get the most Bang for my Buck. But I've also had products from both companies. If I'm hearing correctly the AV 10 gives you functions close to Trinnov and maybe Strom Audio offer.
Good video, thanks.
I was hoping to see benchmarks for Cinema 40 & 50 soon 🙁
Awesome gene! Just bought the amp 10 and av 10 now I need speakers lol looking at focal aria line vs evoke any thoughts would greatly be appreciated!
Where did you get the AV10? Every place I've looked has been sold out.
God damn , 14k… wish i could buy one 😂
Bigger the woofer better dynamic range.
Hey Gene, hopefully you can help! Love your channel and your updates. Please help a semi newbie here. I have my Klipsh sub connected to my Denon rec. I have my sub connected by the LFE, should I turn the crossover dial all the way and use my rec to control the crossover? I have heard so many things. I need an experts answer
With many thanks
Vs RMC fully differential?
Not really interested in covering Emotiva products anymore. I've had too many die after the warranty expired.
Also, they never got bass management quite right on prior models. I hope the RMC1 and newer units fixed those issues.
I only own a cinema 60 still i am happy as a bunny in a cloverfield.
I have stopped following these reviews for a while now. It seems like, in the last four years at least, there is a lack of killer application for these systems. I own a, now ancient, Yamaha adventage 5200, and the additional benefits of these newer systems seem to be the ability to handle yet more speakers. Even in my ancient 7.1.4, I already have 12 speakers and it seems to me the added ability to handle16 speakers is not even an incremental benefit. Most streaming programs, stream in 5.1 or 7.1 (ok, you can upscale the audio) audio and 4K video. 8K in the house seems a product for those few who have HUGE houses. The only thing I would definitely like is the ability to switch input faster, the 5200 is pretty slow in synchronising HDMI, but that is not worth it the price. These systems seem to be, at the moment, a solution in search of a problem, question is, what is the next killer feature worth it a few grands for upgrading?
Let's talk about expectations from an AV flagship processor in 2023, because I'm sick and tired to wait for a much better version in term of options and audio quality rendition, comparing with the 14 years old Denon AVP A1HDA, which I owned.
Digital technology implemented in flagships AV processors (of different mass producers like the ones of the top 3 in the world - Denon, Marantz, Yamaha - not the more 'exotic' brands like Lyngdorf, StormAudio or Trinnov) has to be comparable on the level of digital components and technology used in flagships of smartphone producers like Huawei, Xiaomi, Samsung, Apple, Honor.
Because in digital tech, what is a flagship component today, will become obsolete in just a year or two... This is why in 2023, I don't want to buy old, outdated technology at an unjustified cost! Only the newest and best-performing components have to be used and I don't see this in AV10 or in the Denon AVR A1H...
In regards only to the audio side of the Marantz AV10... My level of expectation at 7000 USD (or even more) is that I need one AV unit to sound like a flagship stereo, on ALL channels!
BTW...let's be totally honest... ...who is using a 16...19 channels configuration in a living room, or even in a dedicated home cinema room? Or zones... Zone 2, zone 3... Who is really willing to deploy kilometers of wires for zone 2 or zone 3 connections in which the end result is to play the same music everywhere, instead of separate very good quality audio components in those rooms? We are not talking about hearing the same music in corridors or on an elevator of a hotel, because who really wants this? Also, who is really using HEOS?? This is a GADGET zone, NOT a high-end area...
Sabre DAC ES 9018 used inside AV10? Why not at least ESS 9039Pro or AKM4191EQ? Or dedicated very low noise stereo DAC in dual differential mode per channel? As a flagship product in 2023, it should have!
And where is HDCD decoding? Audiophile CD format is not dead, SACD is not dead, and Dolby Digital is not dead... In the audiophile community, we are still spinning HDCD CDs, SACD discs, and DVD Audio discs - and for HDCD, we need that decoder also.
Even vinyl is not dead, and in 2023 we still not having a decent phono preamplifier for both MM and MC cartridges in a flagship AV processor...
Talking about being in 2023...where is streaming and decoding native DSD1024 audio files?
I want to see ultra-low noise separate power supplies inside of a top-of-the-line AV processor... This is the level of quality that I expect from a Marantz or Denon AV processor flagship, in 2023.
RCA connectors are made from gold-plated brass? This is NOT desirable, because of brass's low conductivity. It should be made at least from silver or gold-plated OFC copper (again... I'm modest...I'm not mentioning pure silver-made connectors...). I want to see OCC pure copper or OCC pure silver wires used in inside cabling!
Talking further...what OP-AMP is used inside? No info here...
Also, the producer did not offered no tech spec at launch in regarding DAC inside, what brand of capacitors have been used, SINAD, output volume, etc, etc..
I want an upscale even from DVD definition, to 4k and 8k resolution!
McIntosh is having same marketing and publicity policy... No detailed info regarding inside components used, and no tech info regarding very important audio performance in their flagship AV processor... Only high prices!
With all due respect for these companies and their work, for an educated audiophile this is NOT acceptable.
The parts used inside matter much less than implementation and how the unit measures as a result. The AV 10 produced excellent results on the test bench. I have no complaints.
@@Audioholics I agree that electronic scheme implementation (and software) matters as well when it comes to a complex product like an AV processor is. But as I said before EVERYTHING matters when it comes to reach high quality audio rendition. That includes electronic components used inside. And not only on audio, but also on video section. I saw only one main power transformer used... This is also a cheap implementation of hardware, with weak results when it comes to many aspects both in audio and in video rendition. Let's not forget that we are talking about a flagship product!
@Florin Bizu Your assessment is very wrong. I showed with measurements that this unit is well engineered. The power supply is clean, the DAC implementation is nearly perfect. You're too hung up on individual parts and not looking at implementation and the end result.
@@Audioholics Am I wrong? "Nearly perfect'' is far from perfect, for me. How about crosstalk? How about speed and rendering micro and macrodinamics with precision... How about detail and resolution, how about not being able to play DSD at 512 or even more, at 1024... And when using the room acustics compensation from Audissey or Dirac, things in audio gets even more complicated, as you know already...We are talking about expectations achievable with technology, software and components that are available in 2023! Please compare the quality of construction of an 14 years old AVP A1 HDA (HDCI for the USA market), with AV10... In a blink of an eye, present AV10 is a shame!
Until they implement Dirac bass management and Dirac Art this is not worth the money. Only then it will make it worth every penny.
All dose measurement doesn't mean it sounds good, Tirinnov and and Storm audio where not the best in measurement on paper a few years ago, but if you listen to the best of all the home theater processor, they came out first for audio immersive sound quality. cant wait to see your report on sound quality......
This isn't true. "Tirinnov and and Storm audio where not the best in measurement on paper a few years ago"
@@abdullahdanze2061 You're repeating exactly what i said, they did not have the best measurement, but they sound amazing.......measurement don't always go with the sound you hear.
@@invisibles362 No, I'm telling you that is not true. Storm audio and trinnov market products on their state of the art measurements.
@@abdullahdanze2061 The last time I've seen the report on measurement o the net on home theater processor, they where not on top, but they far better then some
best home theater processor rated.png
Not Gene. And now he is defining Hi-Fi significant measure benchmark units. Industry should be paying Gene for common sense.
Thank god no one @ Masimo is sending the AV10 to Amir to review.
Maybe one oh his stooge patrons will buy a unit and send it to him.
Down with SINAD!
Literally, the SINAD thing has become ridiculous
I’m just not buying that the Marantz is a great product. Especially when we start referencing how great their previous products were because none of them have been. I don’t understand why Marantz can’t achieve good separation in sound but they just cannot. Show all the measurements you like, they are not great sounding. At best I would say Marantz doesn't quite avoid the smearing of sound you hear coming out of their systems but falls in line with anyone wanting a budget sound but not looking hard to discover much better sound at a similar cost.
That's your opinion, which isn't supported by any empirical evidence.
Receiver, processor, amplifier "sounding" is often a personal preference based on your hearing and many other factors, but that doesn't necessarily mean the product isn't good and may be great for many other people. For example. I never liked the "sound" of Yamaha's "natural sound" receivers. For some reason it just didn't sound right to me. But Yamaha's 3-way Speakers sound really good to me. Weird! A lot of this may have to do with the chipsets etc used in a particular production line and the way those chips and processors analyze and output Dolby, DTS, or CD audio ,etc. I always thought Sony made cheap receivers and they left a lot to be desired on connections! But, I had a STR-DG510 receiver and out of the box, making no adjustments EQ etc wise and running a dvd/blu ray movie the Sony( I believe won an Audio award the year or two it came out) and I can say it was despite no banana plug connectors which I don't understand and hate standard "clip in bare wire", the DTS sound out of that unit was utterly perfect! Also, what speakers you use makes a huge difference! And the speakers may sound different with a Marantz than your favorite receiver/processor, but you can adjust about anything now ti achieve the "right sound" for you. Food for thought!
I challenge anyone to compare an AV7705 to a budget Denon (using Pre-Out) Atmos receiver. To me and I am willing to bet most people would choose the budget.Even the atmos processing was more accurate on the budget Denon. That being said Marantz may have improved. You need to hear it too and compare. Does it sound better than what it is compared to.
@@Audioholics I can spend all day on REW with a Marantz and it just never sounds alive. Marantz just doesn’t have it.
@@sdvolley off-topic, but you live in AZ by chance?