Clarification: When I stated you can't get 400 watts x 7 off a 15 amp line I meant a 120Vac. You would need almost 25A at 120Vrms to yield that kind of power output assuming the amplifier's power supply is BIG enough to generate that much current which the Amp 10 is not.
This is something that I had no idea about - I think you may want to do a video or an article explaining that. If someone has a 85 inch LED TV which consumes 250 watts, a gaming console (PS5 or XSX) that consumes another 200 watts on a 15A circuit, they have 1350 watts left for their AVP and AMP. I have no clue how much power an AVP consumes and some have toroidal transformers in them. Let's say the AVP consumes up to 150 watts in this scenario which then would leave you with 1,200 watts left over. As you pointed out in previous articles, Class A/B transformers are more inefficient and can actually reach crazy wattage numbers even if they are just pushing 100 watts for 7 channels (essentially it takes more power to generate the 700 watts of sound) Oh fudge, I totally forgot about the subwoofer. How much power does that thing need? Even if it's a SVS 3000 Micro, the specs for that say it needs 800 watts (let's forget about the 2,500 watts claim). Does that affect the amplifier then? I guess I'm lucky I don't have a PC with a 4090 that needs 500-600 watts or a 2nd sub - I'd need to rewire my house which I probably should have done before I built my basement. But for many people, the location of their home theater limits them to a single circuit. But I'm now worried that I'm starving my AVR and buying an external amp without a separate circuit to feed it would be a silly thing unless I can find an amp that has 200% efficiency (essentially it generates more sound than the power it consumes) 🙂Maybe that's the future!
Thanks for validating that. Well before you got into the analysis, my 2 mathematical brain cells had told that 16 channels at 200w would over tax the standard consumer wall mains outlet. So, is the manufacturer expecting end users to install a dedicated high power mains supply to achieve optimal performance?
YES.....im in uk,so we are lucky 120volt needs 25 amp? circuitbreaker. 240volt needs 12 amp? Circuitbreaker. We use 2.5mm diameter copper wire which can carry around 15 amps.... Because we are on a "ring main" each socket gets 2 wires from breaker, wired around a room in a circle with 5? Double mains socket outlets on it.... So, as a circle, each socket can get 15 + 15 amps to it (potentially)but like Christmas lights, in a real world senario, other things (like washing machine, dryer, kettle etc) are also driben off that "ring main"..... Or "normal" fusing for each ring main is 13 amps, but i dare say one could safely up that to 15 amps and still be safe before heat damadge could occur. (Ive seen 1mm wire off a 5amp light circuit power a 2 bar electric fire that drew 8amps of power, and neither either heated up or blew the breaker...... Soooooooo we're safe in uk, for usa, i guess get a 25amp circuit breaker (maybe for an electric shower or higher) run your equivelent of 4mm diameter copper wire into a dedicated socket..... (when i say 4mm, i mean in copper diameter csa, cross sectional area,).... and thats for the amp and power amplifier only.... ONLY !..... other items (record player, streamer, tape deck etc) can be run off a normal circuit at 20 amp breaker for you, and 13 for us..... Lear ohms law w=i×v and v=ixr where w is whatts, i is current or amperage, v is volts, and r is the resistance..... Watts can be dived by volts to determin current or amperadge if an item just give its usadge in watts value 👍🏻🙂👌 2kw ÷ 240v = around 8 amps.....so use a 10amp fuse to be safe.... same maths can be used in america..... (should be the same all things being equal 😂👍🏻) 2kw ÷ 120v = 16 amp..... soooo thats expensive regarding fuses and circuit breakers, and 2kw isnt much really.... I guess at 120v one would realistically need 50 amp circuitbreaker (or 2x 25amp breakers) to run your avr set up safely...... Alot of people from their wall sockets use extension plugged into extention, pluggerd into extension etc...... this is a VERY BAD PRACTICE.... as the nearest extension to the wall socket has to carry the loading of all the other extensions plugged into eachother like a chain of lights....... Best practice, use first extension, and then plug the other 6 extensions straight into it, and then load them up with devices, instead of chaining extensions one after another..... Make sure the wires in extensions are very thick and have the highest ratings for load possible (dont skimp unless you want a house fire) 💥🧯......! If you need a long run to your avr, 1st option is running double mains cable to your outlet socket, if you need to use an extension, for the first extension, rip out the cable and get thicker cable, (i believe earth cable can be quiet thick, and you can get sleaves at either end denoting which is earth, live and neautral, after using a meter set to ohms, to check if you have got the wires correct, platt them in a weave, (you will loose 33% of the length, so buy extra) and then insulate them to hold them together, thats how to make a higher current low loss extension, you can also buy exteriour fancy shielding and heat shrink covers for the cables to make them look prity, and them fat plugs...... i would also run that wire into a mains purifier instead of a normal extension if funds allow....... Hope that helps, as that is what i have done..... ana-dia-alog (my italian friend) has more on this in one of his videos how to make mains cable, and re-wire the mains purifier to get less ground loop problems and more current to devices (basically wire each plug from the board instead of to the "bars" that feeds all the plugs.... cut the bar and feed each plug directly.... If this is a little "whooooosh" over your heads, go watch the video 🙂👍🏻..... Hope this helps..... take care.... 🇬🇧
Finally something that makes sense, a multi channel amplifier in class D. All AV receivers should be with class D amps, and limited to 7 amplified channels. For more channels only separates should be used. Great review 👍
That Denmark company ICE make great Class D amp modules. Parasound and Marantz have chosen them for good reasons. 5 channels all putting out 200w of simultaneous clean power The proof is in the pudding!
Great video and details Gene! Wouldn’t the frequency dip you showed at the 10:00 mark with 7 channels be an audible issue? Can you share more why this is or isn’t a big deal? (Especially since this is a multichannel amp)
Hey Gene love your show, and continue to learn from all your knowledge. I do have a question, I was wondering if you could dona bench test on Marantz cinema 40 for those of us that can’t afford the separates. It would be greatly appreciated.
Gene, when can we get your take on sound quality? I am particularly interested in 2CH. Is it good enough to take on dedicated 2CH high performance gear? Please take into account both the AVP and AMP in your review. Thanks!
Yes! I'm absolutely loving the sound I'm getting from this combo powering my Perlisten S7t system. It's very dynamic and clean and great transparency. I will elaborate in my formal review.
There’s no sign of IceEdge, on the IcePower website. So I’m thinking “edge” may demarcate engineering collaboration. This model has Marantz HDAM in it, and I wonder if that’s in theirs pre-amp processing section or built into the iceEdge modules. The nearest visual icepower module on the icepower website is the 300A2 with 3 small grey capacitors ahead of a ferris wheel looking inductor, and a taller black capacitor after but where we see the modules in the Marantz depart is in having a larger red capacitor. Which being red probably makes it go really fast! Price per icepower module is $180 and they are 2 channel. And we see 8 in this marantz for the 16 channels. So $1500 in power modules, and $5,500 dollars in Marantz engineering, chassis, assembly, surround processing chips and design, licensing, etc. All which Onkyo seems to pull off for $500 at Best buy. But they just skirted bankruptcy so a bit of margin is sensible. A $7,000 receiver is not. But wait this isn’t even a receiver, it’s just a power amp. The margins on this gotta be insane. I know plastic surgery is expensive, but Phil doesn’t need it. It’s safe assume all the executives are paid just as much as the line workers in Bangkok who make icemodules. So where does all the money go? To the Reptilians! Or Reps for short, and you’d only need cosmetic surgery if you were secretly a salamander. But I digress, when the amp 10 is arguably the best in the world and the history of all mankind thus far. One could say $150,000 is more than reasonable for the very best of all existence. For me, I’m goona need the sale price ha ha And maybe a heat lamp since it runs so cool and I suspect some of my guests to be cold blooded. Onkyo and their best buy Amphibians with their endless compromises to quality and performance, deceptively advertised at 1khz can get F🎉ed
Hey, Paisan! Being a mechanical guy, most of the tech stuff is over my head, but I can kinda get the gist of it the way you explain it. I don't need that many channels (honestly, who actually does?), and from what I gather the NAD M28 is a cleaner, more powerful amp (if your review of the M23 is any indication) with all 7 driven anyway, so, I think that will be my next upgrade. I'm eager to hear your subjective listening review of the M23. Keep up the great work! Ciao!
Hey Gene great job! Can you please also measure the Rotel RB-1590 (350W 8Ω / 648W 4Ω)? That's MICHI like performance for half the price. I want to know how much SINAD it has. And if you could measure the MICHI S5 that would be awesome too. Thanks!
Oh, and peak current and power output into 2 ohms is always handy to know. Most real world speakers have effective impedance dips below 2ohms. Not being able to power those dips can give issues.
Most modern speakers today typically don't dip below 3.2 ohms. With the rare exception of large monolithic towers with lots of bass drivers, of course.
@@Audioholics the measured impedance may not, but the phase angle that gets created can create an effective impedance that's a lot lower, with current demands that are similar.
If im buying separates of this price it has to be rated all channels driven. Unfortunately i understand with this many channels I imagine its just not possible. I'd rather a 7 channel and a 9 channel each delivering full rated power all channels driven.
@@Audioholics Exactly, what happens with 15A outlets. Is there any point to me getting a 8 channel Hypex 502 which has 350 WPC all channels driven. That's 2.8kW which is way over my 1.8kW. Not to mention that I have my TV connected there, my AVR, and my Xbox/PS5 and they all draw power. And it's all going through my Belkin Surge Protector. What powers would I be getting? Is there any point to getting an external amplifier if I already have a Marantz SR8000 series for 5 channels (bi-amping LR)?
You have to go multiple circuits in your room. Have it professionally done though so you can avoid grounding noise problems! I added extra circuits in my room and I was astonished him much my powered subs opened up with all that extra current available! 👍
@@Geerladenlad Unfortunately, I've finished my basement so there's no way to rewire anything for my main system which is in the living room (not in the basement). Can that be done at the junction box?
The high frequency region is still tricky for them. From what gene showed this one looks really good through the audible range, but we still see some roll off there, and there may be some more frictions there with certain speakers, ones that aren’t readily perceptible in these static resistive load measurements.
@Audioholics Great video G! Would you recommend this "all in one" solution over separate power amps? Considering a 7.2.4 setup, larger LCR speakers up to 500 wpc at 4 ohms, I cant decide between the AMP 10 or separate power amps. Thanks for your input.
What would you recommend for a system that is mainly two channel stereo but also in a home theater room with a 7.2.4 atmos system. AV10/Amp10 or a big integrated amp with ht bypass and a cinema30 avr?
Gene I'm not an audiophile so I have a question. Are there 4 or 2 ohm speakers that are too power hungry for the 10 to handle and if so what is a solution?
@user-yq5od9uj3f I drive the 4-ohm Perlisten S7t fullrange bridged on the Amp10 with no issues. It's going to take a very esoteric speaker to be a problem w this amp.
Gene, at the 10 minute mark where you were talking about the dip at 70Hz. Was that dip consistently at 70Hz always, or was it an attenuation where the amp power supply ran out of power playing the lower frequency portion of the sweep and then attenuated everything briefly which happened to coincide with the 70Hz portion of the sweep. and released the clamp shortly after at the 70Hz portion of the sweep to resume full power output? IE. If you had a slower sine wave sweep would the dip be at a lower Hz? Or a faster sweep the dip be at a higher Hz? Or was it 70Hz consistently?
And later at the 12 minute mark where you said it delivers 200 watts per channel at 7 channels. Was that just the 1Khz test? Seeing that at the 10 minute mark you said it was dipping out at 70Hz ish? (Assuming less power when FR isn’t flat?)
Honestly I didn't dig too deep into this issue since it was all 7CH driven and it WAS a relatively slow sweep of 500ms and not a real world use scenario. This was my only test result Marantz wasn't able to replicate.
Obviously it can't run all 16 channels anywhere near 200watts. At 90% efficiency it would be drawing more than 3500 watts, which is way more than a 20A breaker can handle, let alone what most people have (15A breaker). It was clipping with 7 channels driven. No need to test anymore channels.
Another great video im awaiting delivery of the Amp 10 plus Av10 do you think it would be ok to bi amp these speakers with my new kef R11 meta as i see they don't advise bridging many thanks
Marantz should have made it a 17 channel amp instead of a 16 because the AV10 actually has 17 channels, but only supports 15 channels at a time. The 2 extra channels that the AV10 has are switchable, so that you can take advantage of all the audio formats without have to sacrificing channels. This way you can setup 17 speakers in your room for all audio formats
You might have mentioned this on another video but how does the Marantz 10 processor compare to the older av8805a? I have the 8805a in my main room and the 7705 in my bedroom, but I've been dying to find out if it's worth upgrading either of my units?
AV10 is a significant upgrade on many levels. Better DACs, build quality, cleaner preamp and most importantly Dirac and Audyssey, 4 independent sub outs and better hdmi stability and functionality.
So I would just a 16 channel pre amp and a stack of crowns xls (even more power) and probably still have money left... . Silly comparison? Is it? I mean for 7k you can find some incredible componentry not being class D... I don't know but just a thought , would you as reader buy this amp....or keep looking around ? I feel that's fair to wonder
@audioholics I’m running a 14 channel arendal 1723 setup. Is the amp10 strong enough to power 13 4ohm speakers ? I’m running an av10 with dual monolith 7x amps currently.
Haha. I'm thinking of getting an AV10? I saw your comment on AVS which said if channel count is below 15, get an AV10 over a Trinnov and pocket the change? Does this still stand? I'm about to pull the trigger on one or the other. :) @@Audioholics
@aaronao1 absolutely 💯. We have affiliate links for all 3 processors in the video description, but I would still pick the AV 10 or AVM90 over Trinnov for 15CH or less processing.
Marantz likes lower numbers for higher end products. The -10 is their reference flagship. PM-10 for best “pre main” (integrated amp). SA-10 (super audio CD). Now AV and AMP 10 for the home theater flagships.
Another great video I'm based in the UK and awaiting delivery of the AV10 and Amp10 I'm planning on connecting this amp to my new Kef R11 Meta I see you mentioned against bridging but do you think bi amping would be OK??many thanks
Would be really interested to see THD vs frequency. A lot of class D amps are clean as at 1khz, but have rising distortion (in some cases, quite alarmingly) as frequency rises. This leads to their reputation as being cold, hard and brittle sounding, with a rough treble. Purifi modules don't do this. I don't know about the modules used here.
Ud be surprised that analog amps have the same problem, thus the "slew rate" spec and "full power bandwidth" (reviewer didn't mention at what power he tested at, critical, amateur to miss this). This is an area Bryston was famous for.
@@Audioholics but at what power?? Critical part of that measure. Ie "slew rate", class D is notoriously low, even the best tech out of TI analog. ( pretty amature to miss this in 2023).
@@gregdee9085 rarely get to more than 10 watts at 10khz+, so doesn't really matter at what power. But, Purifi modules are clean, even at full power. Fact that the frequency response didn't droop at full power is also a good sign for these modules. Class A/B amps tend to 2nd/3rd harmonic distortion, which is smooth & warm sounding. Class D (they're still analogue, by the way - class D is not digital) tend to have higher orders, which is why they can sound hard and brittle.
How does it sound though? I watched Shane Lees review and he absolutely didn´t like it. Not a big open sound, but boxed in and lacking detail in the fine highs. Maybe that´s just the Marantz signature sound, but didn´t sound very impressive and it sounds like a product You´d be better off passing for better options
No Poweramp is perfect however, it better be for 7 grand! Even if i had the money, i wouldn't buy it. You can buy three good quality 5 channel amps at 2 grand a piece and have a grand left over and be happy and satisfied. I know that doesn't equal what the Marantz offers but I'm just trying to put things in perspective.I love Denon and Marantz but thats crazy money for an amp thats not perfect! 🤟
I was twice disappointed using marantz, not because the sound quality... All because strenght or durability of the product. First i used SR7005 less than 2 years damaged... The IC damaged. The electricity in my house is good. Second time i used SR5014... In a different house. Only about 1 year 5 months the hdmi board damaged. And for SR5014 was the first time trouble in Indonesia until february 2023. I used only for ordinary things... Music, movie... Very unfortunate for such a big brand like marantz.
Video could be more shot profesional. I don't like to see and hear the presentator drinking water from a bottle, the background is a mess looking like a room of an adolescent and use a power point instead of the webpages for showing graphs. Also the camera is to high, making the presentator looking up.
That's great. If you want a professionally shot video of this product, check out @therealShanelee. If you want technical facts, and test measurements NOBODY else provides, deal with my water drinking and shooting at my work desk.
@@Audioholics Gene, the content you provide and how you provide it is exactly why I have followed you for so long and years before your RUclips channel. As a fellow engineer (different field but started in EE) (and paisano ;) I am very skeptical of claims and exaggerations made in the field of audio and therefore very much appreciate your balanced objectivist and subjectivist points of view. There are very few people I respect in this hobby and you my friend are one of those few. Keep up the fine work and keep telling it like it really is!
@Audioholics I’ll admit there was a time I used to want the same thing. After years of watching I actually have grown to appreciate your authentic purity to focus on the details, data and info vs producing a trendy and flashy show
Clarification: When I stated you can't get 400 watts x 7 off a 15 amp line I meant a 120Vac. You would need almost 25A at 120Vrms to yield that kind of power output assuming the amplifier's power supply is BIG enough to generate that much current which the Amp 10 is not.
This is something that I had no idea about - I think you may want to do a video or an article explaining that. If someone has a 85 inch LED TV which consumes 250 watts, a gaming console (PS5 or XSX) that consumes another 200 watts on a 15A circuit, they have 1350 watts left for their AVP and AMP.
I have no clue how much power an AVP consumes and some have toroidal transformers in them. Let's say the AVP consumes up to 150 watts in this scenario which then would leave you with 1,200 watts left over. As you pointed out in previous articles, Class A/B transformers are more inefficient and can actually reach crazy wattage numbers even if they are just pushing 100 watts for 7 channels (essentially it takes more power to generate the 700 watts of sound)
Oh fudge, I totally forgot about the subwoofer. How much power does that thing need? Even if it's a SVS 3000 Micro, the specs for that say it needs 800 watts (let's forget about the 2,500 watts claim). Does that affect the amplifier then?
I guess I'm lucky I don't have a PC with a 4090 that needs 500-600 watts or a 2nd sub - I'd need to rewire my house which I probably should have done before I built my basement. But for many people, the location of their home theater limits them to a single circuit.
But I'm now worried that I'm starving my AVR and buying an external amp without a separate circuit to feed it would be a silly thing unless I can find an amp that has 200% efficiency (essentially it generates more sound than the power it consumes) 🙂Maybe that's the future!
Thanks for validating that. Well before you got into the analysis, my 2 mathematical brain cells had told that 16 channels at 200w would over tax the standard consumer wall mains outlet. So, is the manufacturer expecting end users to install a dedicated high power mains supply to achieve optimal performance?
YES.....im in uk,so we are lucky
120volt needs 25 amp? circuitbreaker.
240volt needs 12 amp? Circuitbreaker.
We use 2.5mm diameter copper wire which can carry around 15 amps....
Because we are on a "ring main" each socket gets 2 wires from breaker, wired around a room in a circle with 5? Double mains socket outlets on it....
So, as a circle, each socket can get 15 + 15 amps to it (potentially)but like Christmas lights, in a real world senario, other things (like washing machine, dryer, kettle etc) are also driben off that "ring main".....
Or "normal" fusing for each ring main is 13 amps, but i dare say one could safely up that to 15 amps and still be safe before heat damadge could occur. (Ive seen 1mm wire off a 5amp light circuit power a 2 bar electric fire that drew 8amps of power, and neither either heated up or blew the breaker......
Soooooooo we're safe in uk, for usa, i guess get a 25amp circuit breaker (maybe for an electric shower or higher) run your equivelent of 4mm diameter copper wire into a dedicated socket..... (when i say 4mm, i mean in copper diameter csa, cross sectional area,).... and thats for the amp and power amplifier only.... ONLY !.....
other items (record player, streamer, tape deck etc) can be run off a normal circuit at 20 amp breaker for you, and 13 for us.....
Lear ohms law w=i×v and v=ixr where w is whatts, i is current or amperage, v is volts, and r is the resistance.....
Watts can be dived by volts to determin current or amperadge if an item just give its usadge in watts value 👍🏻🙂👌
2kw ÷ 240v = around 8 amps.....so use a 10amp fuse to be safe.... same maths can be used in america..... (should be the same all things being equal 😂👍🏻)
2kw ÷ 120v = 16 amp..... soooo thats expensive regarding fuses and circuit breakers, and 2kw isnt much really....
I guess at 120v one would realistically need 50 amp circuitbreaker (or 2x 25amp breakers) to run your avr set up safely......
Alot of people from their wall sockets use extension plugged into extention, pluggerd into extension etc...... this is a VERY BAD PRACTICE.... as the nearest extension to the wall socket has to carry the loading of all the other extensions plugged into eachother like a chain of lights.......
Best practice, use first extension, and then plug the other 6 extensions straight into it, and then load them up with devices, instead of chaining extensions one after another.....
Make sure the wires in extensions are very thick and have the highest ratings for load possible (dont skimp unless you want a house fire) 💥🧯......!
If you need a long run to your avr, 1st option is running double mains cable to your outlet socket, if you need to use an extension, for the first extension, rip out the cable and get thicker cable, (i believe earth cable can be quiet thick, and you can get sleaves at either end denoting which is earth, live and neautral, after using a meter set to ohms, to check if you have got the wires correct, platt them in a weave, (you will loose 33% of the length, so buy extra) and then insulate them to hold them together, thats how to make a higher current low loss extension, you can also buy exteriour fancy shielding and heat shrink covers for the cables to make them look prity, and them fat plugs...... i would also run that wire into a mains purifier instead of a normal extension if funds allow.......
Hope that helps, as that is what i have done..... ana-dia-alog (my italian friend) has more on this in one of his videos how to make mains cable, and re-wire the mains purifier to get less ground loop problems and more current to devices (basically wire each plug from the board instead of to the "bars" that feeds all the plugs.... cut the bar and feed each plug directly....
If this is a little "whooooosh" over your heads, go watch the video 🙂👍🏻.....
Hope this helps..... take care.... 🇬🇧
Great review, as always Gene! New Marantz AMP 10 200 watt x 16CH Amplifier Bench Test Results! Thanks🤟
Thanks Gene! I just ordered my AMP10/AV10 combo last week.
Did you get it and if so how are you finding the marantz I’m considering getting the amp and processor combo myself
Finally something that makes sense, a multi channel amplifier in class D. All AV receivers should be with class D amps, and limited to 7 amplified channels. For more channels only separates should be used. Great review 👍
That Denmark company ICE make great Class D amp modules. Parasound and Marantz have chosen them for good reasons.
5 channels all putting out 200w of simultaneous clean power The proof is in the pudding!
I look forward to flagship AVR’s coming out with class D amplification.
Sounds like we need more designs like this one but in various channel configs.
Thanks Gene Appricate all the work put in , I have learned alot from you over 30 years !! Geez buddy we getting older '
Great video and details Gene! Wouldn’t the frequency dip you showed at the 10:00 mark with 7 channels be an audible issue? Can you share more why this is or isn’t a big deal? (Especially since this is a multichannel amp)
Great review as always and a great product.
I hate you… now I want to buy one (I’ve always been a fan of ICEpower)
Hey Gene love your show, and continue to learn from all your knowledge. I do have a question, I was wondering if you could dona bench test on Marantz cinema 40 for those of us that can’t afford the separates.
It would be greatly appreciated.
Can you comment on how linear the AMP 10 is down to 2 ohms? I’ve got a pair of mains that dip below 3 ohms (2.7 to be exact).
I didn't test into a 2 ohm load but I've been hammering this amp in bridged mode with my 4 ohm Perlisten S7ts and it's been working like a champ.
Thank you for the effort and valuable review.
Gene, when can we get your take on sound quality? I am particularly interested in 2CH. Is it good enough to take on dedicated 2CH high performance gear? Please take into account both the AVP and AMP in your review. Thanks!
Yes! I'm absolutely loving the sound I'm getting from this combo powering my Perlisten S7t system. It's very dynamic and clean and great transparency. I will elaborate in my formal review.
There’s no sign of IceEdge, on the IcePower website. So I’m thinking “edge” may demarcate engineering collaboration. This model has Marantz HDAM in it, and I wonder if that’s in theirs pre-amp processing section or built into the iceEdge modules.
The nearest visual icepower module on the icepower website is the 300A2 with 3 small grey capacitors ahead of a ferris wheel looking inductor, and a taller black capacitor after but where we see the modules in the Marantz depart is in having a larger red capacitor. Which being red probably makes it go really fast!
Price per icepower module is $180 and they are 2 channel. And we see 8 in this marantz for the 16 channels.
So $1500 in power modules, and $5,500 dollars in Marantz engineering, chassis, assembly, surround processing chips and design, licensing, etc. All which Onkyo seems to pull off for $500 at Best buy. But they just skirted bankruptcy so a bit of margin is sensible. A $7,000 receiver is not. But wait this isn’t even a receiver, it’s just a power amp. The margins on this gotta be insane. I know plastic surgery is expensive, but Phil doesn’t need it. It’s safe assume all the executives are paid just as much as the line workers in Bangkok who make icemodules. So where does all the money go? To the Reptilians! Or Reps for short, and you’d only need cosmetic surgery if you were secretly a salamander.
But I digress, when the amp 10 is arguably the best in the world and the history of all mankind thus far. One could say $150,000 is more than reasonable for the very best of all existence.
For me, I’m goona need the sale price ha ha
And maybe a heat lamp since it runs so cool and I suspect some of my guests to be cold blooded.
Onkyo and their best buy Amphibians with their endless compromises to quality and performance, deceptively advertised at 1khz can get F🎉ed
Impressive numbers Gene , but do you think its time to replace my 2 Lexicon zx-7 amplifiers ? 🤔
not if you're happy with your current amplifiers.
take care of zx. there are none like that anymore
Hey, Paisan! Being a mechanical guy, most of the tech stuff is over my head, but I can kinda get the gist of it the way you explain it. I don't need that many channels (honestly, who actually does?), and from what I gather the NAD M28 is a cleaner, more powerful amp (if your review of the M23 is any indication) with all 7 driven anyway, so, I think that will be my next upgrade. I'm eager to hear your subjective listening review of the M23. Keep up the great work! Ciao!
Hey Gene great job!
Can you please also measure the Rotel RB-1590 (350W 8Ω / 648W 4Ω)? That's MICHI like performance for half the price. I want to know how much SINAD it has.
And if you could measure the MICHI S5 that would be awesome too.
Thanks!
Oh, and peak current and power output into 2 ohms is always handy to know. Most real world speakers have effective impedance dips below 2ohms. Not being able to power those dips can give issues.
Most modern speakers today typically don't dip below 3.2 ohms. With the rare exception of large monolithic towers with lots of bass drivers, of course.
@@Audioholics the measured impedance may not, but the phase angle that gets created can create an effective impedance that's a lot lower, with current demands that are similar.
If im buying separates of this price it has to be rated all channels driven. Unfortunately i understand with this many channels I imagine its just not possible. I'd rather a 7 channel and a 9 channel each delivering full rated power all channels driven.
and if you plug both amps into the same outlet, you still aren't getting rated power at "All channels driven".
@@Audioholics Exactly, what happens with 15A outlets. Is there any point to me getting a 8 channel Hypex 502 which has 350 WPC all channels driven. That's 2.8kW which is way over my 1.8kW.
Not to mention that I have my TV connected there, my AVR, and my Xbox/PS5 and they all draw power.
And it's all going through my Belkin Surge Protector.
What powers would I be getting? Is there any point to getting an external amplifier if I already have a Marantz SR8000 series for 5 channels (bi-amping LR)?
@Tech Samurai only for sheer dynamics. Most people don't have speakers that would benefit, though.
You have to go multiple circuits in your room.
Have it professionally done though so you can avoid grounding noise problems!
I added extra circuits in my room and I was astonished him much my powered subs opened up with all that extra current available! 👍
@@Geerladenlad Unfortunately, I've finished my basement so there's no way to rewire anything for my main system which is in the living room (not in the basement). Can that be done at the junction box?
Switching class d is the future. It just takes time i think
The high frequency region is still tricky for them. From what gene showed this one looks really good through the audible range, but we still see some roll off there, and there may be some more frictions there with certain speakers, ones that aren’t readily perceptible in these static resistive load measurements.
It's tough - I love toroidals...
@Audioholics Great video G! Would you recommend this "all in one" solution over separate power amps? Considering a 7.2.4 setup, larger LCR speakers up to 500 wpc at 4 ohms, I cant decide between the AMP 10 or separate power amps. Thanks for your input.
If rack space is an issue, then yes. Amp 10 bridged is pretty awesome for front 3 LCRs.
Since you mentioned the long discontinued Denon POA-A1HD 10ch 150W amp... how do they compare?
What would you recommend for a system that is mainly two channel stereo but also in a home theater room with a 7.2.4 atmos system. AV10/Amp10 or a big integrated amp with ht bypass and a cinema30 avr?
Gene I'm not an audiophile so I have a question. Are there 4 or 2 ohm speakers that are too power hungry for the 10 to handle and if so what is a solution?
@user-yq5od9uj3f I drive the 4-ohm Perlisten S7t fullrange bridged on the Amp10 with no issues. It's going to take a very esoteric speaker to be a problem w this amp.
Gene, at the 10 minute mark where you were talking about the dip at 70Hz. Was that dip consistently at 70Hz always, or was it an attenuation where the amp power supply ran out of power playing the lower frequency portion of the sweep and then attenuated everything briefly which happened to coincide with the 70Hz portion of the sweep. and released the clamp shortly after at the 70Hz portion of the sweep to resume full power output? IE. If you had a slower sine wave sweep would the dip be at a lower Hz? Or a faster sweep the dip be at a higher Hz? Or was it 70Hz consistently?
And later at the 12 minute mark where you said it delivers 200 watts per channel at 7 channels. Was that just the 1Khz test? Seeing that at the 10 minute mark you said it was dipping out at 70Hz ish? (Assuming less power when FR isn’t flat?)
Honestly I didn't dig too deep into this issue since it was all 7CH driven and it WAS a relatively slow sweep of 500ms and not a real world use scenario. This was my only test result Marantz wasn't able to replicate.
@@jvonengeln Anytime I test an amp with more than 2CH drive, it's done as a 1kHz sweep. 2CH and below are continuous fullbandwidth.
Nice review, as always Gene! Wondering if you have a update for the review of the Denon A1H?
not this year, unfortunately.
@@Audioholics Wow, really? I thought it was on the short list to review?
@@abefroman. Oh I can get one right now. I'm just swamped with other projects, unfortunately.
@@Audioholics Copy that. Does this mean Matthew isn't either, or...?
Obviously it can't run all 16 channels anywhere near 200watts. At 90% efficiency it would be drawing more than 3500 watts, which is way more than a 20A breaker can handle, let alone what most people have (15A breaker). It was clipping with 7 channels driven. No need to test anymore channels.
Is there anything you would suggest (in that price range) for just two channels?
I want to feed my RF-7IIIs all they can take.
Cambridge Audio EVO 150 for $3,200 is a steal and sounds great!
bit.ly/CambridgeEVO150Delorean
Another great video im awaiting delivery of the Amp 10 plus Av10 do you think it would be ok to bi amp these speakers with my new kef R11 meta as i see they don't advise bridging many thanks
Yes absolutely
Thanks Gene always great advice
Marantz should have made it a 17 channel amp instead of a 16 because the AV10 actually has 17 channels, but only supports 15 channels at a time. The 2 extra channels that the AV10 has are switchable, so that you can take advantage of all the audio formats without have to sacrificing channels. This way you can setup 17 speakers in your room for all audio formats
Umm no. Adding 2 more channels for a very low use case isn't worth the cost.
You might have mentioned this on another video but how does the Marantz 10 processor compare to the older av8805a? I have the 8805a in my main room and the 7705 in my bedroom, but I've been dying to find out if it's worth upgrading either of my units?
AV10 is a significant upgrade on many levels. Better DACs, build quality, cleaner preamp and most importantly Dirac and Audyssey, 4 independent sub outs and better hdmi stability and functionality.
Would love to see the OSD X11 tested this way including the Storm Audio PA16 🍻🤘🏻⚡️🍿
I definitely need to test the Storm since I have it in my theater room.
How does this setup "AV 10 and AMP 10" sound for two channel playback? I have a Rega turntable and Biuesound Node for streaming.
Excellent. I've been loving music on this gear.
I would only need 11 channels with my AV 10. That is 9 total channels with fronts Bi amped. Would this be over kill?
There's no such thing as overkill on this channel.
So I would just a 16 channel pre amp and a stack of crowns xls (even more power) and probably still have money left...
.
Silly comparison? Is it? I mean for 7k you can find some incredible componentry not being class D...
I don't know but just a thought , would you as reader buy this amp....or keep looking around ?
I feel that's fair to wonder
Sure if you want to use sound reinforcement amps in home theater and you don't care about noise and distortion, Crown is a cheaper alternative.
Well how does it sound?
@audioholics I’m running a 14 channel arendal 1723 setup. Is the amp10 strong enough to power 13 4ohm speakers ? I’m running an av10 with dual monolith 7x amps currently.
Yes but you already have good amplification. I probably wouldn't change it if everything is working.
Does this work with JBL SCL 6/7 speakers with 4 ohm impedance
still amazing who needs that much power :)
But Sparechange says it didn't sound good?? how do we explain his results??
He uses crappy cables
Haha. I'm thinking of getting an AV10? I saw your comment on AVS which said if channel count is below 15, get an AV10 over a Trinnov and pocket the change? Does this still stand? I'm about to pull the trigger on one or the other. :) @@Audioholics
@aaronao1 absolutely 💯. We have affiliate links for all 3 processors in the video description, but I would still pick the AV 10 or AVM90 over Trinnov for 15CH or less processing.
Can you say something about the fan noise?
I never heard the fans engage in my testing or in use
Why not Amp 16?
Marantz likes lower numbers for higher end products. The -10 is their reference flagship. PM-10 for best “pre main” (integrated amp). SA-10 (super audio CD). Now AV and AMP 10 for the home theater flagships.
Agreed. Makes no sense. 😅
Another great video I'm based in the UK and awaiting delivery of the AV10 and Amp10 I'm planning on connecting this amp to my new Kef R11 Meta I see you mentioned against bridging but do you think bi amping would be OK??many thanks
@@Tofartony yes biamping is safe for 4 ohm loads on the Amp 10.
Would be really interested to see THD vs frequency. A lot of class D amps are clean as at 1khz, but have rising distortion (in some cases, quite alarmingly) as frequency rises. This leads to their reputation as being cold, hard and brittle sounding, with a rough treble.
Purifi modules don't do this. I don't know about the modules used here.
I checked this and the AMP 10 was clean full bandwidth, fortunately.
Good to know. Thanks for the reply.
Ud be surprised that analog amps have the same problem, thus the "slew rate" spec and "full power bandwidth" (reviewer didn't mention at what power he tested at, critical, amateur to miss this). This is an area Bryston was famous for.
@@Audioholics but at what power?? Critical part of that measure. Ie "slew rate", class D is notoriously low, even the best tech out of TI analog. ( pretty amature to miss this in 2023).
@@gregdee9085 rarely get to more than 10 watts at 10khz+, so doesn't really matter at what power. But, Purifi modules are clean, even at full power. Fact that the frequency response didn't droop at full power is also a good sign for these modules.
Class A/B amps tend to 2nd/3rd harmonic distortion, which is smooth & warm sounding. Class D (they're still analogue, by the way - class D is not digital) tend to have higher orders, which is why they can sound hard and brittle.
Gene,
This amp is NOT a good deal @ $7000. BUCKEYE - Two Hypex NC252MP Amplifiers, 8-channel $3190 or Two NC502MP Amplifiers, 8-channel $4390.
I agree not for the price! I instead went for two 8 channel Monolith 8250x amps...And the saw Buckeye and became very Mad...Lol
@@michaelslocumbsr.2286 haha
What power do the Buckeyes deliver for 8 channels driven?
@@techsamurai11 350W @ 8 Ohms for the NC502MP version.
@@techsamurai11
NC252MP Power, all channels driven:
180w per channel @ 2ohms
250w per channel @ 4ohms
150w per channel @ 8ohms
How does it sound though? I watched Shane Lees review and he absolutely didn´t like it. Not a big open sound, but boxed in and lacking detail in the fine highs. Maybe that´s just the Marantz signature sound, but didn´t sound very impressive and it sounds like a product You´d be better off passing for better options
Shane didn't like the sound bc the batteries in his Audioquest cables died 😉 This amp sounds great in my room.
No Poweramp is perfect however, it better be for 7 grand! Even if i had the money, i wouldn't buy it. You can buy three good quality 5 channel amps at 2 grand a piece and have a grand left over and be happy and satisfied. I know that doesn't equal what the Marantz offers but I'm just trying to put things in perspective.I love Denon and Marantz but thats crazy money for an amp thats not perfect! 🤟
what are the amps u refered to 2k cost for 5 channel amps?
can i know what are the other 2 grand 5 channel amps u're referring to?
Shoutout to BlueJeansCable 🎉
Who needs 16 channels... Rather have a Marantz SM1000.
7,000 ? Ouch!
I was twice disappointed using marantz, not because the sound quality... All because strenght or durability of the product.
First i used SR7005 less than 2 years damaged... The IC damaged.
The electricity in my house is good.
Second time i used SR5014... In a different house.
Only about 1 year 5 months the hdmi board damaged.
And for SR5014 was the first time trouble in Indonesia until february 2023.
I used only for ordinary things... Music, movie...
Very unfortunate for such a big brand like marantz.
sound quality is not great with marantz honestly. Denon sounds way better.
So then Danny from GR is right about having steel connectors that is not good for the system.
Not when you're measuring SINAD > 100dB. Nobody uses alligator clips to connect their speakers.
why ? it really does not matter. f those barel things :) aligator clips work fine ;) hehe
great amp if you aint got neighbours 😁
Video could be more shot profesional. I don't like to see and hear the presentator drinking water from a bottle, the background is a mess looking like a room of an adolescent and use a power point instead of the webpages for showing graphs. Also the camera is to high, making the presentator looking up.
That's great. If you want a professionally shot video of this product, check out @therealShanelee. If you want technical facts, and test measurements NOBODY else provides, deal with my water drinking and shooting at my work desk.
@@Audioholics Gene, the content you provide and how you provide it is exactly why I have followed you for so long and years before your RUclips channel. As a fellow engineer (different field but started in EE) (and paisano ;) I am very skeptical of claims and exaggerations made in the field of audio and therefore very much appreciate your balanced objectivist and subjectivist points of view. There are very few people I respect in this hobby and you my friend are one of those few. Keep up the fine work and keep telling it like it really is!
@Audioholics I’ll admit there was a time I used to want the same thing. After years of watching I actually have grown to appreciate your authentic purity to focus on the details, data and info vs producing a trendy and flashy show