Thompson, living alone and leading the LNER during WAR, did what he had to do. The p2s were only available for about 55% of the time, and after their rebuild that number raised to about 75-78% i think. Railway mainia had a podcast on thompsen and it shows that he might not even be as bad as people say.
Yeah, I later learned all that a year ago. No need to remind me there. I was hoping to address that in a Halloween video that’ll premiere this October but I didn’t have enough time, and so devoted it toward something even bigger that has been demanding my own personal rectification in video form
Any man who is a Gresley fan is a friend of mine. The P2 is being built just 60 miles from where I live and going by the quality of workmanship they put into their A1 "Tornado" loco, it will be spectacular. Tornado has already been run at over 100 miles per hour in a controlled test run, so I wait developments of the P2 with excitement. Thanks for a very interesting video.
For those who have suggested me to do an Extinct UK Steam locomotives list, your request is granted! Thank you for 700 subscribers! Oh and a minor correction to the P2 project. The expected completion is said to be in 2023, but might change again
It’s almost worse: one was marked out to be preserved but the sign was only painted on one side of the cab and the chap with the gas axe started on the other side. True story.
@@andrewcraig-bennett3659 I know one was to be preserved but wait... on *one* side and he scrapped it anyway? if I was there and saw the word, I'd instantly put the cutter's torch down, no question.
Your silly outburst at the end is both self-demeaning and self-destructive. Most people in UK already know about the antipathy of ET towards the LNER hierarchy. He was a pretty sick man, too. I am a Bulleid as well as a Gresley man. Despite which it’s worth reporting that certain Gresley features required a great deal of skilled and time-consuming maintenance, which began to vanish during and after the war. And not in the least, the question of the national debt.
The chief mechanical engineers I like are urie of the SR maunseal of the SR and bulleid of the SR and well I guess staniar and collet are ok to I guess but the good ones are the southern ones are best
@@robinfryer479 Rude. Isaiah is still trying to get better at talking and you're putting him, her or they down because of something they said. That's like telling a person who is relearning to walk and you're yelling not good enough. Grow up and show some decency and respect.
Can I just point out that what Thompson lacked in his pacifics he made up for in his freight locomotives, and all his locomotives introduced some semblance of standardization to the LNER which they needed for World War II (even though they didn’t know it at the time) and gave them some modern freight locomotives that weren’t ridiculously complicated and were reliable.
Baldwin 60000 was an experimental (4-10-2) locomotive. It was built in 1926. It was meant to be a prototype for future locomotive designs. However, none of the American railroads sought interest in it, despite having successful demonstration runs. It was put in storage in 1928 and in 1933, Baldwin 60000 was donated to the Franklin Institute where it remains on display.
Hi Andrew. Very enjoyable video. I am the editor of the magazine of the B17 Steam Locomotive Trust so was pleased to see your number 2 pick! Can we use your video please for promotional purposes at our various meetings and exhibitions?
True, but here’s where things start to get admittedly controversial. Thompson as stated scrapped an entire class of (admittedly only) 2 locomotives that were still pretty successful, and worsened some of Gresleys best locomotives. Please don’t get me wrong, what he went through in his life with loosing his wife to an incurable disease and having his house burn and force him to live in his office. Poor guy. but we all have to agree that what he did was not awesome. 😕
@@levidarling5107if you watch Railway Mania and Simon A.C. Martin’s podcast, you’ll know that the P1s were practically life expired and it was cheaper to just replace them.
I WAS MISGUIDED BY MISINFORMATION AT THE TIME; just like with GTW 5629. The current version of me WOULD HAVE NEVER DONE SUCH DISSERVICE, and never would be doing so since some point in 2022 when I learned the truth of Thompson thanks to H.I.T.D. Had the 2022 version of me or the present written that script, you wouldn’t even be writing this comment since such versions of me would be much more neutral and sympathetic rather than biased.
I WAS MISGUIDED BY MISINFORMATION AT THE TIME; just like with GTW 5629. The current version of me WOULD HAVE NEVER DONE SUCH DISSERVICE because, and never would be doing so since some point in 2022 when I learned the truth of Thompson thanks to H.I.T.D. Had the 2022 version of me or the present written that script, such versions of me would be much more natural and sympathetic rather than biased.
The cutter's torch is no match for a well designed engine. Even if their butchered and scrapped, their legacy will birth new life to continue on the name. Steam will forever live on, no matter what happens. And Gresley's extinct warriors are a testimony of that.
*laughs* I don’t know about you guys, but I like the e2’s. however I will be nice to the class and say that L.B Billington was lazy about upgrading and improving the design, sadly making the class not very liked in real life. In fiction, very much loved though!
I'd love to see a build of the Highland Railway 'River' Class of 4-6-0. Due to misunderstanding of the effect of hammer blow, the HR Civil Engineer would not accept them and they were sold to the Caledonian Railway which found them to be better than their own designs. After the formation of the LMS in 1923, they returned to the Highland line and saw out their career doing their original task with great success.
LMS Patriot Midlland 3F Midland/LMS 2P LNWR King George V LNWR Claughton LNWR Cauliflower L&Y Dreadnought 6256 Sir William A Stanier FRS Stanier 2 cylinder 2-6-4 Tank Skye Bogie There's a few to be going on with.
To be fair, in defense of the A2/2's, even if they couldn't run the Edinburgh to Aberdeen, they could work more around the LNER network as in a railway podcast ft. Simon A.C. Martin, the availability figure for the ex-P2's were 57% during the war years and became 73% when they were rebuilt as the A2/2's. I admit, they are ugly, and yes, they did slip quite a bit, but engines do slip on occasion. I'm not saying I like the A2/2's more, but it's nice to point out that they weren't the worst things in the world.
A nice video. Only a tiny mistake in your honourable mentions you put the Midland compounds. No.1000 is preserved and own by the national railway museum
@@MiLewisProductions1226 true but I'm talking bout the company the first batch was from the mr the second ones were made by the lms so same identity but different company built
The first 10 locos I wish weren’t scrapped (that don’t have an active new build project): 10) GWR No. 111 “The Great Bear” 9) LNWR DX Goods 8) more Furness Railway locomotives 7) LBSCR “Remembrance” tank 6) GER Decapod 5) LBSCR E2 4) L&YR 3) GCR Atlantic 2) LNER “Hush Hush” 1) GCR 9N
Considering how much those script writing skills had improved since making your American version, I’m not surprised that this list has more views than even part 1 of your American version
Re your comments there are some additional facts that may help you. The LB&SCR H1 and H2 locos are having a replica built at Sheffield Park on the Bluebell railway and re the P1 locos and the fireman's work, they were short valve travel engines and would be coal hungry. They were also hand fired whereas many larger engines in the USA had automatic stokers. The passenger version of them, the P2s were also coal guzzlers until Thompson rebuilt them.
The song making fun of Thompsons A2’s, I was all like, “ahhahaha. *snort* haha. What in the hail?” You cracked me up bro! Not a huge fan of profanity, but I need to admit that that song was absolutely hilarious. But I why you may dislike the e2 tank engines, I can understand that, I personally like them. Good video by the way. I laughed my own guts out at that song! 🤣
My feeling is that Thomson gets a worse press than is his due. He was CME during WW2 when the requirement was for solid reliable locomotives, which were easy to maintain. Thus his B1 was a straightforward 2 cylinder 4-6-0 which did its job as well as Stanier's Black Fives on the LMS. Gresley's 3 cylinder locos had always had a problem with the derived motion for the middle cylinder which needed careful setting up and maintenance and, even then, when the engine was stressed could result in wild variation in valve events for the middle cylinder.. The classic example was Mallard blowing up when setting the World Steam Speed Record. In wartime, with the 'Perfect Storm' of reduced maintenance, inexperienced engineers and heavily overloaded trains, the Gresley 3 cylinder locos all exhibited poorer availability than simpler designs. A decade later, when maintenance had improved under BR, optical lining of the frames and careful work on the derived motion for the centre cylinders pretty well sorted out the problem. It's also noticeable that when Peppercorn replaced Thomson for the final years of the LNER after the war he built his new 3 cylinder locos with 3 separate valve gears for the 3 cylinders and they were probably the very best of the 'Gresley' lineage. I believe that, had Gresley lived to see the LNER to its end he was a great enough engineer to admit the limitations of his design and that he'd have gone the same route as Peppercorn did. All that said, Thomson did have a bit of an irrational dislike of the Great Northern tradition which dominated the LNER (he began in the North Eastern Railway component)and this was probably the reason for his 'bastardisation' of the P2s when a simple 3rd valve gear would have done the trick more quickly and economically. His new build Pacifics were just as awkward and I think he possibly hit his limit in trying to design larger than a 4-6-0 Mixed Traffic loco. So on balance, I'd say at that Thomson was a good engineer but had human limitations which probably included a fair degree of jealousy towards the genius that was Gresley and quite likely Stanier as well. After all he didn't need to design a new loco in the B1. It would have saved time, effort and money to order a batch of Stanier's Black Fives. BTW - I put a bit of cash into both Tornado and the P2 builds. I'd recommend doing the same to anyone
I actually have a series called Scrapped Steam Locos of Britain, where I cover extinct classes. The segment on the Churchward Counties is actually not that different from Episode Three of my series.
@@FeatherWings78 Right here. ruclips.net/video/-SnT0p6VvGg/видео.html Also, the sprite work is a bit shoddy, but that was just because I was only just starting out with sprite-making.
I THINK, British Railways didn't bother renumbering the GWR engines because their numbers were on the side of the cab as a cast brass plaque, whereas the other companies just painted them on and thus could be painted over easily. On pronunciation, this isn't exact, but you may have a chance of pronouncing the Welsh town Llangollen as Langothlen (though the 'L' is more complicated but I daresay your tongue has never been in the right shape in your mouth to replicate the real sound). Norwich is pronounced Noritch (in standard English) and Tottenham, Totnum .... Norwich City and Tottenham Hotspur are famous football teams, so Tottenham Hotspur can also just be pronounced Spurs for short. (can you see the brass football in the middle of the nameplates?) we say 'worse' instead of badder, btw I'm in Doncaster.
Just found your video on RUclips, and thought it was a Great one. well done on your pronunciations, although Llangollen was funny, I'm sure the Welsh pronounce it "klan-goff-len" or something like that. please could you do a video on your top 10 favourite preserved UK steam locos. From an Americans paint of view, I'd find that interesting. 👍
One thing that I believe would’ve been a good honorable mention would be the A1 class which was an LNER design but was not produced until the merger into British rail in 1948. The reason that it would’ve been only an honorable mention rather than an actual entry would be because since the year 2008 A new locomotive of the class named “tornado” after the Gulf war air jet bomber of the same name has been in use after being built in the 1990s and most of the 2000s.
Thanks for including the Claud Hamiltons, but there were some other Great Eastern classes. Can I propose the Adam’s C8 class 4-4-0 and the Holden class P43 4-2-2? Oh, and of course the Decapod!
Very excellent and most enjoyable. I can't disagree with any of the inclusions and almost agree about Thompson - definitely as far as 1471 and P2's are concerned. He did redeem himself to a large extent with the B1 class and arguably with the rebuilt B17 to B2, which used to haunt my local line. Having come from a maintenance specialisation, he detested the complication of the Gresley conjugated valve gear for 3-cylinders. Anyway, great video: thanks.
So many of these were out of service before 1960. I know that in (I think) 1962 I saw a classic 2-4-0 of some kind in apple green livery sitting in steam on a track inside a London passenger shed. It was a storybook moment and a blessing. At least one of the old girls lived long enough for me to see her.
That might have been one of the T19 (LNER E4's) that ran mainly on the line from Colchester to Sudbury. One was supposed to be preserved, but was "lost" and by the time they knew where it was, it was too late.
@@robertwilloughby8050One of the E4s is preserved. It's part of the National Collection and is currently on static display at the Bressingham Steam Gardens.
Mr. Kennedy… you didn’t understand that it was done by the French northern railway company who put the outside cylinders behind the leading bogie, due to the de glehn inside cylinders being so huge, that Alfred de glehn resulted to do the unthinkable… and I think that Thompson doing the same thing that Alfred de glehn did 60 years later… but with 3 cylinders in of 4.
The Gresley V3s deserve the new build treatment. The V3s were the most powerful tank engines ever built in Britain. As a diehard LMS fanatic who gets an erection on the sight of a Black 5, CAN SOME GROUP FORM AND MAKE A PLAN TO BRING BACK THE V3s!?! Because although they are LNER East Coast steaming scrap iron they have a place in history regardless
In the honorable mentions the LMS 4-4-0 4 cylinder compounds are mentioned, however this is not an extinct class. One of them, No.1000 is preserved. Which are extinct are the very similar looking 2P's, they only differ in not having outside cylinders, they were a lighter less powerful version. Also, the very first pic of the Furness railway K2 isn't a K2, it's a Dutch locomotive of the Rhine Railway Company serie 101-109, later after the grouping of companies in 1924 Dutch Railways 1600 class. Many Dutch locomotives had a very British appearance.
imagine saying "clangocklen" while clearing your throat and you'll almost be there for the first "LL" in "LLangollen" and then let the spittle rumble on for the second "LL" and... well.... Welsh is tricksy for the English, let alone ... no! not gonna say "You Yanky...." Noooo! ;-) (Nice vid btw :) )
oh.. and "Norwich" is pronounced "Norich" and "Tottenham" is "Totnam" - yeah I know... Just don't get me started on "Leicester" ;-) (time to put the glass down and leave the bar ;-) )
Try the L&YR Class 8 Dreadnought 4-6-0's, the GCR 9Q Colliers Friend 4-6-0's, the NER V/V09 4-4-2's, LNER (actually NER) B16 4-6-0's, GWR 6800 Granges 4-6-0's, LMS Fowler Tea Kettle 2-6-2T's, SR Class N15X 4-6-0's and LSWR Class T14 Paddleboxes 4-6-0's
There were attempts that the U.K. in the early railroad days to import two copies of the Cumberland Valley railroad Pioneer. The ship that was shipping the to copies sunk in route due to a storm. My only favorite British built is the LNWR Precedent class. Other than that, I prefer the American builts like the S100 & S160 including the Baldwin and Alco trench locomotives.
On the Southern K1, and the Ks before them, they were notoriously unstable at speed, especially on the Southern's under-par trackwork, and keeping any of them around was an accident waiting to happen. The singular K1 was rebuilt into the U1 prototype after the Sevenoaks accident where K class A800 River Cray derailed. All-in-all, I say it was a good thing the SR K1 went extinct. However, the U1s also did not survive, and that is the point I say was wrong. However, the two-cylinder variant, the U class, has had four preserved examples, including one I've seen in person.
I would have included the LBSCR D tanks and the LSWR Ilfracombe Goods 0-6-0s. Both would be practical smaller locos for a heritage railway. Both at points in their lives worked alongside the ubiquitous A1x Terriers. The D tanks almost lived long enough to likely be preserved, but the Ilfracombes were gone before WWII iirc.
My objection to a lot of the choices are that they were one offs (or at best there were a handful of examples built) and were frequently failures. I would suggest that the criteria for inclusion should include how many were built and how long they lasted. I would suggest by my criteria the most important missing locomotive is the Johnson class 2 0-6-0 of which there were 935 built and were in service from 1875 to 1964. And, in addition, IMHO, were the best looking inside cylinder 0-6-0s
Just a note, the first pic you used for the Furness K2 isnt a Furness K2, but an NS 1600 Also one of the two P2s is probably not gonna happen, they've been saying they'll build it for years, the man after it doesnt know what he's doing, they have raised barely any funds etc
A few more to add to he list.. BR standard class 3mt, tank and tender.. GWR Grange.. GWR/BR country 4-6-0 GWR 31xx 2-6-2 LMS Fowler 2-6-4 ..2P T, Stanier 2-6-2 T.. SR Z, L1/2 4-4-0s Think of some more.....
Lovely list but you were a bit harsh on Thompson. 1) When rebuilt the A2/2 could do what the P2 can but more efficiently since the P2s only had a sum around 40% reliability (mostly because of the crankpin problems you failed to mention) but compared that to the A2/2's which had 70% reliability 2) Also the A2's COULD run on the Edinburg mainline and did it better then in their Gresley form. 3) The piston positioning was made for more easier maintenance since it was a wartime era. Also the valve gear change was not the cause of slipping but because of the messed up weight destribution caused by the conversion from Mikados to Pacifics. And speaking about slipping, it was just common for Pacifics even the A1's slipped and cracked their frames in service but their not considered bad locos. 4) Thompson modifying the P2s to be better engines couldn't be possible cause of the wartime restrictions holding back passenger engine development. 5) As for P1's they were two nonefficient locomotive's in a system with more than suitable engines that can do their work so keeping them on, in a wartime conditions I might add, wouldn't be the most practical idea. I love the passion but please don't spread miss information and doing the opposite of what u claim to be trying to do with these videos.
Did you mention the L&Y Class 8 4-6-0's? The Dreadnoughts were terrible in their earliest form (very heavy on coal, and a swine to keep steam tight) but were much improved by rebuilding and the later builds were much better, still a little heavy on coal and a bit notorious for vibration, but still decent engines who were "masters of their work" to quote a chap called Eric Marshall.
Yeah, same. 😕 Oh well, at least you and I love and cherish them thanks to Thomas. Hey! If one were to be rebuilt, how about the club can ensure that these guys are better runners to make these guys popular in real life?! 😃
I don’t know why you put the Midland Compound (or 4P as they were classed) in the honourable mentions as extinct, the very first still survives as part of the National Collection, number 1000 is in the National Railway Museum in York though sadly may never steam again same with the V2 Green Arrow.
Tbh though, Edwards's basis K2 is hideous. Cuz it looks too dinky if in real life. Also edward was the 1st official character created by the god, wilbert awdry.
Hereford - Herri-ford.. Llangollen, that's a tricky one. Ll is a Welsh letter and has a special pronunciation. It's not something I can write about you have to watch it and hear it being pronounced. A good effort on your part though.
9:57 which is now retired. 11:39 actually 112 people were killed, not 340. 11:50 actually some of its parts after being scrapped were used on BR standard class 8 71000 the duke of Gloucester.
Thompson, living alone and leading the LNER during WAR, did what he had to do. The p2s were only available for about 55% of the time, and after their rebuild that number raised to about 75-78% i think. Railway mainia had a podcast on thompsen and it shows that he might not even be as bad as people say.
Yeah, I later learned all that a year ago. No need to remind me there. I was hoping to address that in a Halloween video that’ll premiere this October but I didn’t have enough time, and so devoted it toward something even bigger that has been demanding my own personal rectification in video form
Any man who is a Gresley fan is a friend of mine. The P2 is being built just 60 miles from where I live and going by the quality of workmanship they put into their A1 "Tornado" loco, it will be spectacular. Tornado has already been run at over 100 miles per hour in a controlled test run, so I wait developments of the P2 with excitement. Thanks for a very interesting video.
For those who have suggested me to do an Extinct UK Steam locomotives list, your request is granted!
Thank you for 700 subscribers!
Oh and a minor correction to the P2 project. The expected completion is said to be in 2023, but might change again
Hahaha hush hush XD
You hate Thomas the tank in 😭😭😭
"Not a single Claud Hamilton escaped the cutter's torch"
That's just really sad
It’s almost worse: one was marked out to be preserved but the sign was only painted on one side of the cab and the chap with the gas axe started on the other side. True story.
@@andrewcraig-bennett3659 I know one was to be preserved but wait... on *one* side and he scrapped it anyway? if I was there and saw the word, I'd instantly put the cutter's torch down, no question.
You should do least favorite LNER tank/tender engines. Favorite LNER tank/tender engines.
Still struggling at talking, but Getting better
Your silly outburst at the end is both self-demeaning and self-destructive. Most people in UK already know about the antipathy of ET towards the LNER hierarchy. He was a pretty sick man, too. I am a Bulleid as well as a Gresley man. Despite which it’s worth reporting that certain Gresley features required a great deal of skilled and time-consuming maintenance, which began to vanish during and after the war. And not in the least, the question of the national debt.
The chief mechanical engineers I like are urie of the SR maunseal of the SR and bulleid of the SR and well I guess staniar and collet are ok to I guess but the good ones are the southern ones are best
@@robinfryer479 Now that’s just rude.
@@robinfryer479 Rude. Isaiah is still trying to get better at talking and you're putting him, her or they down because of something they said. That's like telling a person who is relearning to walk and you're yelling not good enough. Grow up and show some decency and respect.
@@robinfryer479 rude boy
Can I just point out that what Thompson lacked in his pacifics he made up for in his freight locomotives, and all his locomotives introduced some semblance of standardization to the LNER which they needed for World War II (even though they didn’t know it at the time) and gave them some modern freight locomotives that weren’t ridiculously complicated and were reliable.
Baldwin 60000 was an experimental (4-10-2) locomotive. It was built in 1926. It was meant to be a prototype for future locomotive designs. However, none of the American railroads sought interest in it, despite having successful demonstration runs. It was put in storage in 1928 and in 1933, Baldwin 60000 was donated to the Franklin Institute where it remains on display.
Hi Andrew. Very enjoyable video. I am the editor of the magazine of the B17 Steam Locomotive Trust so was pleased to see your number 2 pick! Can we use your video please for promotional purposes at our various meetings and exhibitions?
You do Edward Thompson a disservice, he was hand tied by finance and war time shortages. Yet he built the B1s, a superb mix traffic class.
True, but here’s where things start to get admittedly controversial. Thompson as stated scrapped an entire class of (admittedly only) 2 locomotives that were still pretty successful, and worsened some of Gresleys best locomotives. Please don’t get me wrong, what he went through in his life with loosing his wife to an incurable disease and having his house burn and force him to live in his office. Poor guy. but we all have to agree that what he did was not awesome. 😕
@@levidarling5107 well you may be right, others will say you are wrong, I sit in the middle and look at his major achievement the B1s with admiration!
@@levidarling5107if you watch Railway Mania and Simon A.C. Martin’s podcast, you’ll know that the P1s were practically life expired and it was cheaper to just replace them.
I WAS MISGUIDED BY MISINFORMATION AT THE TIME; just like with GTW 5629. The current version of me WOULD HAVE NEVER DONE SUCH DISSERVICE, and never would be doing so since some point in 2022 when I learned the truth of Thompson thanks to H.I.T.D. Had the 2022 version of me or the present written that script, you wouldn’t even be writing this comment since such versions of me would be much more neutral and sympathetic rather than biased.
@@AndrewTheRocketCityRailfan4014 don’t worry Andrew. We forgive you.
Love the work, keep making videos like this, perhaps do a least favorite if you want or maybe a top canadian loco list!
If I was edward Thomson I will just put the radial technology on the bogeys on the P2
The P2 does not have bogies. It has a leading pony truck and a trailing truck.
@@EuroScot2023 That's what i. Meant
True that mate!
I WAS MISGUIDED BY MISINFORMATION AT THE TIME; just like with GTW 5629. The current version of me WOULD HAVE NEVER DONE SUCH DISSERVICE because, and never would be doing so since some point in 2022 when I learned the truth of Thompson thanks to H.I.T.D. Had the 2022 version of me or the present written that script, such versions of me would be much more natural and sympathetic rather than biased.
Can we have
10 British steam engine that are getting a new build
Good idea for diverging from the trends of extinct engines
The cutter's torch is no match for a well designed engine. Even if their butchered and scrapped, their legacy will birth new life to continue on the name.
Steam will forever live on, no matter what happens. And Gresley's extinct warriors are a testimony of that.
29:33 NO! NO!!! DOES NOT COMPUTE!!!! DOES NOT COMPUTE!!!
0:45. Andrew: “I won’t include classes I hate.” ‘Shows picture of E2’
Thomas: How dare you shame me and my dead brothers!
You’ll know why tomorrow.
Oh, and I meant was that those wouldn't be on the list.
*laughs* I don’t know about you guys, but I like the e2’s. however I will be nice to the class and say that L.B Billington was lazy about upgrading and improving the design, sadly making the class not very liked in real life. In fiction, very much loved though!
The E2s were useless in real life.
Sorry to ruin your childhood.
I'd love to see a build of the Highland Railway 'River' Class of 4-6-0. Due to misunderstanding of the effect of hammer blow, the HR Civil Engineer would not accept them and they were sold to the Caledonian Railway which found them to be better than their own designs. After the formation of the LMS in 1923, they returned to the Highland line and saw out their career doing their original task with great success.
The Beyer Garratts of the LMS, and LNER, the biggest most powerful steam locomotives ever on the UK network!
LMS Patriot
Midlland 3F
Midland/LMS 2P
LNWR King George V
LNWR Claughton
LNWR Cauliflower
L&Y Dreadnought
6256 Sir William A Stanier FRS
Stanier 2 cylinder 2-6-4 Tank
Skye Bogie
There's a few to be going on with.
To be fair, in defense of the A2/2's, even if they couldn't run the Edinburgh to Aberdeen, they could work more around the LNER network as in a railway podcast ft. Simon A.C. Martin, the availability figure for the ex-P2's were 57% during the war years and became 73% when they were rebuilt as the A2/2's. I admit, they are ugly, and yes, they did slip quite a bit, but engines do slip on occasion. I'm not saying I like the A2/2's more, but it's nice to point out that they weren't the worst things in the world.
I noticed a forgot a few notable locomotives for both the list and honorable mentions.
LNER J50s and J70s
LMS Patriots
LBSCR E3
Rip steam train that got scrapped you will be missed
Nice to see an American appreciating the Clauds. Although no judgement for not realising you had a pic of the Royal train in the sequence.
A nice video. Only a tiny mistake in your honourable mentions you put the Midland compounds. No.1000 is preserved and own by the national railway museum
He was taking about the lms made 4-4-0 compounds not the midland railway 1000 class 4-4-0 compounds
@@zyancuerdo7392 Yes, but the one he featured was of Midland Decent
@@MiLewisProductions1226 true but I'm talking bout the company the first batch was from the mr the second ones were made by the lms so same identity but different company built
Brits will resent this vid.
Yeah,
This is one of my older videos, and thus made back when I was still a complete noob. So it’s no surprise this vid is bad even to me
The first 10 locos I wish weren’t scrapped (that don’t have an active new build project):
10) GWR No. 111 “The Great Bear”
9) LNWR DX Goods
8) more Furness Railway locomotives
7) LBSCR “Remembrance” tank
6) GER Decapod
5) LBSCR E2
4) L&YR
3) GCR Atlantic
2) LNER “Hush Hush”
1) GCR 9N
When people know more and like the Lner hush hush locomotive than you
"Angry LMS Fury noise"
Considering how much those script writing skills had improved since making your American version, I’m not surprised that this list has more views than even part 1 of your American version
Re your comments there are some additional facts that may help you. The LB&SCR H1 and H2 locos are having a replica built at Sheffield Park on the Bluebell railway and re the P1 locos and the fireman's work, they were short valve travel engines and would be coal hungry. They were also hand fired whereas many larger engines in the USA had automatic stokers. The passenger version of them, the P2s were also coal guzzlers until Thompson rebuilt them.
2:44 while showing the SMALL boiler version
I was an idiot back then when it came to making these video’s because I was inexperienced
I also liked what you did at 33:11, that was hilarious 🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂
The song making fun of Thompsons A2’s, I was all like, “ahhahaha. *snort* haha. What in the hail?” You cracked me up bro! Not a huge fan of profanity, but I need to admit that that song was absolutely hilarious. But I why you may dislike the e2 tank engines, I can understand that, I personally like them. Good video by the way. I laughed my own guts out at that song! 🤣
I dislike the E2's because they were terrible IRL. That's why I made my E2 video
didnt even mention Big Bertha, the 0-10-0, 4 cylinder, one of a kind locomotive of the Lickey incline
My feeling is that Thomson gets a worse press than is his due. He was CME during WW2 when the requirement was for solid reliable locomotives, which were easy to maintain. Thus his B1 was a straightforward 2 cylinder 4-6-0 which did its job as well as Stanier's Black Fives on the LMS.
Gresley's 3 cylinder locos had always had a problem with the derived motion for the middle cylinder which needed careful setting up and maintenance and, even then, when the engine was stressed could result in wild variation in valve events for the middle cylinder.. The classic example was Mallard blowing up when setting the World Steam Speed Record.
In wartime, with the 'Perfect Storm' of reduced maintenance, inexperienced engineers and heavily overloaded trains, the Gresley 3 cylinder locos all exhibited poorer availability than simpler designs. A decade later, when maintenance had improved under BR, optical lining of the frames and careful work on the derived motion for the centre cylinders pretty well sorted out the problem. It's also noticeable that when Peppercorn replaced Thomson for the final years of the LNER after the war he built his new 3 cylinder locos with 3 separate valve gears for the 3 cylinders and they were probably the very best of the 'Gresley' lineage. I believe that, had Gresley lived to see the LNER to its end he was a great enough engineer to admit the limitations of his design and that he'd have gone the same route as Peppercorn did.
All that said, Thomson did have a bit of an irrational dislike of the Great Northern tradition which dominated the LNER (he began in the North Eastern Railway component)and this was probably the reason for his 'bastardisation' of the P2s when a simple 3rd valve gear would have done the trick more quickly and economically. His new build Pacifics were just as awkward and I think he possibly hit his limit in trying to design larger than a 4-6-0 Mixed Traffic loco.
So on balance, I'd say at that Thomson was a good engineer but had human limitations which probably included a fair degree of jealousy towards the genius that was Gresley and quite likely Stanier as well. After all he didn't need to design a new loco in the B1. It would have saved time, effort and money to order a batch of Stanier's Black Fives.
BTW - I put a bit of cash into both Tornado and the P2 builds. I'd recommend doing the same to anyone
Yeah, I too think I took it a little too far on him too. I’ll be more careful next time
I agree wish flying scotsman was apple green again
Who would ever have guessed that you are an LNER and Gresley man! Glade to have you in the club.
The way I see it steam is steam no matter where it's from
Thomason’s Pacifics we’re just so goddam ugly. At least mr Peppercorn put the cylinders back in the right place.
I actually have a series called Scrapped Steam Locos of Britain, where I cover extinct classes. The segment on the Churchward Counties is actually not that different from Episode Three of my series.
Really?
@@FeatherWings78 Indeed.
@@reesochacon1448 where is the vid
@@FeatherWings78 Right here. ruclips.net/video/-SnT0p6VvGg/видео.html Also, the sprite work is a bit shoddy, but that was just because I was only just starting out with sprite-making.
@@reesochacon1448 I see.
I THINK, British Railways didn't bother renumbering the GWR engines because their numbers were on the side of the cab as a cast brass plaque, whereas the other companies just painted them on and thus could be painted over easily.
On pronunciation, this isn't exact, but you may have a chance of pronouncing the Welsh town Llangollen as Langothlen (though the 'L' is more complicated but I daresay your tongue has never been in the right shape in your mouth to replicate the real sound). Norwich is pronounced Noritch (in standard English) and Tottenham, Totnum .... Norwich City and Tottenham Hotspur are famous football teams, so Tottenham Hotspur can also just be pronounced Spurs for short. (can you see the brass football in the middle of the nameplates?) we say 'worse' instead of badder, btw I'm in Doncaster.
Just found your video on RUclips, and thought it was a Great one. well done on your pronunciations, although Llangollen was funny, I'm sure the Welsh pronounce it "klan-goff-len" or something like that. please could you do a video on your top 10 favourite preserved UK steam locos. From an Americans paint of view, I'd find that interesting. 👍
One thing that I believe would’ve been a good honorable mention would be the A1 class which was an LNER design but was not produced until the merger into British rail in 1948. The reason that it would’ve been only an honorable mention rather than an actual entry would be because since the year 2008 A new locomotive of the class named “tornado” after the Gulf war air jet bomber of the same name has been in use after being built in the 1990s and most of the 2000s.
Thanks for including the Claud Hamiltons, but there were some other Great Eastern classes. Can I propose the Adam’s C8 class 4-4-0 and the Holden class P43 4-2-2? Oh, and of course the Decapod!
Let's see...
LBSC L1
SR Remembrance Class
LSWR A12 Jubilee
LNWR G2A
GER D16
They need to recreate some.
Believe me, most people want scotsman in apple green
Great Northern had to be rebuilt, it was in horrible condition before Thompson saved it
Exactly. Something that never caught my sharp eyes until over a year ago
Could you do a video on Australian Steam locomotives please
Actually the very first K2s which werent built for the furness railway were sent to the netherlands were one survives
Wait, there’s 1 STILL AROUND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Maybe, the only differents I can see from the 2, is the dutch one looks different and has westinghouse pump
Man if im ever rich i will bring back these beauty's from the death.
Very excellent and most enjoyable. I can't disagree with any of the inclusions and almost agree about Thompson - definitely as far as 1471 and P2's are concerned.
He did redeem himself to a large extent with the B1 class and arguably with the rebuilt B17 to B2, which used to haunt my local line. Having come from a maintenance specialisation, he detested the complication of the Gresley conjugated valve gear for 3-cylinders.
Anyway, great video: thanks.
It should be noted that the princess anne locomotive’s destruction is what led to the creation of BR 71000 Duke of Gloucester.
Two locomotives from the UK for me would be the LBSCR L Class 4-6-4 'Brighton Baltics' and the GWR 3031 Class 4-2-2s (AKA the Dean Singles).
The Rebuild May of Ruined the P2s Cosmetically, But in Performance, they Were actually better, some of Britain's most powerful pacifics.
So many of these were out of service before 1960. I know that in (I think) 1962 I saw a classic 2-4-0 of some kind in apple green livery sitting in steam on a track inside a London passenger shed. It was a storybook moment and a blessing. At least one of the old girls lived long enough for me to see her.
That might have been one of the T19 (LNER E4's) that ran mainly on the line from Colchester to Sudbury. One was supposed to be preserved, but was "lost" and by the time they knew where it was, it was too late.
@@robertwilloughby8050One of the E4s is preserved.
It's part of the National Collection and is currently on static display at the Bressingham Steam Gardens.
Good video, your deffo getting better at talking. Just as a side note, its Fane of Fife, not Fane of Fire for 2005
I cant wait for 2007 to be finished
Mr. Kennedy… you didn’t understand that it was done by the French northern railway company who put the outside cylinders behind the leading bogie, due to the de glehn inside cylinders being so huge, that Alfred de glehn resulted to do the unthinkable… and I think that Thompson doing the same thing that Alfred de glehn did 60 years later… but with 3 cylinders in of 4.
2021 me who made the video was a complete idiot and noob. I know I know, it's been said enough times in this comments section already.
Lms midland compound one is preserved. Lner j39
The Gresley V3s deserve the new build treatment. The V3s were the most powerful tank engines ever built in Britain. As a diehard LMS fanatic who gets an erection on the sight of a Black 5, CAN SOME GROUP FORM AND MAKE A PLAN TO BRING BACK THE V3s!?! Because although they are LNER East Coast steaming scrap iron they have a place in history regardless
Could you do a top 10 extinct Australian steam locomotives
In the honorable mentions the LMS 4-4-0 4 cylinder compounds are mentioned, however this is not an extinct class.
One of them, No.1000 is preserved.
Which are extinct are the very similar looking 2P's, they only differ in not having outside cylinders, they were a lighter less powerful version.
Also, the very first pic of the Furness railway K2 isn't a K2, it's a Dutch locomotive of the Rhine Railway Company serie 101-109, later after the grouping of companies in 1924 Dutch Railways 1600 class.
Many Dutch locomotives had a very British appearance.
I'd like to see ten wheeler E class steam up again.
I understand not putting the LBSC E2 on the list, as there were some problems that were never fixed before they were scrapped.
imagine saying "clangocklen" while clearing your throat and you'll almost be there for the first "LL" in "LLangollen" and then let the spittle rumble on for the second "LL" and... well.... Welsh is tricksy for the English, let alone ... no! not gonna say "You Yanky...." Noooo! ;-) (Nice vid btw :) )
oh.. and "Norwich" is pronounced "Norich" and "Tottenham" is "Totnam" - yeah I know... Just don't get me started on "Leicester" ;-) (time to put the glass down and leave the bar ;-) )
"Bedenoch" = "Bad-en-nock" - and my fave has to be the Q1.. cos they are so ugly they are beutiful!!!
Try the L&YR Class 8 Dreadnought 4-6-0's, the GCR 9Q Colliers Friend 4-6-0's, the NER V/V09 4-4-2's, LNER (actually NER) B16 4-6-0's, GWR 6800 Granges 4-6-0's, LMS Fowler Tea Kettle 2-6-2T's, SR Class N15X 4-6-0's and LSWR Class T14 Paddleboxes 4-6-0's
There were attempts that the U.K. in the early railroad days to import two copies of the Cumberland Valley railroad Pioneer. The ship that was shipping the to copies sunk in route due to a storm. My only favorite British built is the LNWR Precedent class. Other than that, I prefer the American builts like the S100 & S160 including the Baldwin and Alco trench locomotives.
On the Southern K1, and the Ks before them, they were notoriously unstable at speed, especially on the Southern's under-par trackwork, and keeping any of them around was an accident waiting to happen. The singular K1 was rebuilt into the U1 prototype after the Sevenoaks accident where K class A800 River Cray derailed. All-in-all, I say it was a good thing the SR K1 went extinct. However, the U1s also did not survive, and that is the point I say was wrong. However, the two-cylinder variant, the U class, has had four preserved examples, including one I've seen in person.
I was surprised not to hear the non/rebuilt patriots
I would have included the LBSCR D tanks and the LSWR Ilfracombe Goods 0-6-0s. Both would be practical smaller locos for a heritage railway. Both at points in their lives worked alongside the ubiquitous A1x Terriers. The D tanks almost lived long enough to likely be preserved, but the Ilfracombes were gone before WWII iirc.
11:40 - the Harrow and Wealdstone crash killed 112 and injured 340, not the other way around.
My objection to a lot of the choices are that they were one offs (or at best there were a handful of examples built) and were frequently failures.
I would suggest that the criteria for inclusion should include how many were built and how long they lasted. I would suggest by my criteria the most important missing locomotive is the Johnson class 2 0-6-0 of which there were 935 built and were in service from 1875 to 1964. And, in addition, IMHO, were the best looking inside cylinder 0-6-0s
I think another engine on this list should be the LMS Patriot 4-6-0s
Yeah, I forgot to put these in the honorable mentions
Just a note, the first pic you used for the Furness K2 isnt a Furness K2, but an NS 1600
Also one of the two P2s is probably not gonna happen, they've been saying they'll build it for years, the man after it doesnt know what he's doing, they have raised barely any funds etc
Any progress on the remake?
If I could have a a2/2 preserved but not in p2 form I would take the offer
the Furnace Railroad k2s look exactly like Edward from T&F
I loved the A2/3 especially ET itself they were fast and powerful and way better than the P2
The new night owl is being built by the great Western society at didcot which is now called didcot railway center
clan-goth-luhn is Llangollen (It's in Wales, a double L is a sort of c sound in Welsh)
the claud hamilton engines are the basis for molly in thomas the tank engine
@Joshua W56 Yeah, Don't get your hopes up dude...
A few more to add to he list..
BR standard class 3mt, tank and tender..
GWR Grange..
GWR/BR country 4-6-0
GWR 31xx 2-6-2
LMS Fowler 2-6-4 ..2P T, Stanier 2-6-2 T..
SR Z, L1/2 4-4-0s
Think of some more.....
21:45 - Norwich is pronounced NOR-rich and Tottenham is TOT-num
can you please do top 10 extinct Australian steam locomotives
Lovely list but you were a bit harsh on Thompson.
1) When rebuilt the A2/2 could do what the P2 can but more efficiently since the P2s only had a sum around 40% reliability (mostly because of the crankpin problems you failed to mention) but compared that to the A2/2's which had 70% reliability
2) Also the A2's COULD run on the Edinburg mainline and did it better then in their Gresley form.
3) The piston positioning was made for more easier maintenance since it was a wartime era. Also the valve gear change was not the cause of slipping but because of the messed up weight destribution caused by the conversion from Mikados to Pacifics. And speaking about slipping, it was just common for Pacifics even the A1's slipped and cracked their frames in service but their not considered bad locos.
4) Thompson modifying the P2s to be better engines couldn't be possible cause of the wartime restrictions holding back passenger engine development.
5) As for P1's they were two nonefficient locomotive's in a system with more than suitable engines that can do their work so keeping them on, in a wartime conditions I might add, wouldn't be the most practical idea.
I love the passion but please don't spread miss information and doing the opposite of what u claim to be trying to do with these videos.
The Great Western Society is making a new build County Class 4-6-0 No. 1014 "County of Glamorgan at the Didcot Railway Centre.
Did you mention the L&Y Class 8 4-6-0's? The Dreadnoughts were terrible in their earliest form (very heavy on coal, and a swine to keep steam tight) but were much improved by rebuilding and the later builds were much better, still a little heavy on coal and a bit notorious for vibration, but still decent engines who were "masters of their work" to quote a chap called Eric Marshall.
i was hoping for a LB&SCR E2
Yeah, same. 😕 Oh well, at least you and I love and cherish them thanks to Thomas. Hey! If one were to be rebuilt, how about the club can ensure that these guys are better runners to make these guys popular in real life?! 😃
Watch my E2 episode of DOA and you'll find out why I didn't include them
*edwards theme ends*
British us and canida steamers are my favorite
I don’t know why you put the Midland Compound (or 4P as they were classed) in the honourable mentions as extinct, the very first still survives as part of the National Collection, number 1000 is in the National Railway Museum in York though sadly may never steam again same with the V2 Green Arrow.
22:02
Huh!!
22:05
2860 is alive and well, hurray
Tbh though, Edwards's basis K2 is hideous. Cuz it looks too dinky if in real life.
Also edward was the 1st official character created by the god, wilbert awdry.
The best thomas character edward the old kind engine
GWR Grange Class!!!!
J 38 0-6-0 Gresley’s first LNER design.
I'm planning on doing Australia is anyone else keen
The Midland/LMS 2P 4-4-0 is a sad gap in the steam roster in the uk.
I can recommend Railway mania ep5 might change your mind on Thomson it did for me
Hereford - Herri-ford.. Llangollen, that's a tricky one. Ll is a Welsh letter and has a special pronunciation. It's not something I can write about you have to watch it and hear it being pronounced. A good effort on your part though.
wow Edward is at the beginning yay
9:57 which is now retired. 11:39 actually 112 people were killed, not 340. 11:50 actually some of its parts after being scrapped were used on BR standard class 8 71000 the duke of Gloucester.
340 were the injured