I absolutely love the GS-6's. 4460 always had a special place in my heart ever since I saw her a when I was 5 years old. I really hope she runs again one day🙏
Yep, and I’m grateful that History In The Dark is encouraging others to spread the real truth with his 5629 video. I’ve known the real truth(that it was Jenson’s fault) ever since the day it was put up, and even shared in my community tab to announce my learning of the real truth so as to prevent further users from being mislead and making fun of me
If Richard Jensen got his shit together we wouldn't have lost her, 5629 was an unlucky case of how not to do steam preservation especially when lawsuits are coming
Yes, I DID enjoy this very informative video, immensely! Thank you for taking the time out of your busy life to research, produce and post it. It's a real labor of love.
A very well-thought-out list. I think my only addition would be the H7, H8, & H9 consolidations. Many railroads used them, or designs which were derived and practically identical to them. The ones off the top of the head that I can think of are the New York Central, P&LE, Western Maryland, P&WV, Bessemer & Lake Erie, Grand Trunk Western, W&LE, LS&I, the Montour Railroad, the N&W I believe, Illinois Central, as well as at least a dozen others.
IN the early days of railroads there was quite a lot of experimentation with different locomotive designs. By the 1850s or so there were multiple locomotive builders offering their own standard designs. Train lengths in the early days were limited by coupler strength and braking power, so huge locomotives were not really needed. The standard designs were more than good enough. By the end of the 19th century the knuckle coupler (patented 1873, standardized by 1893), air brakes (first patented 1869, with many improvements to follow), steel frames and improved draft gear allowed much longer trains to be operated safely. Railroads gradually began asking for locomotives customized for use on their lines. And each road had their own particular limitations, grades, curves, rail weight, bridge strength, speed limits, etc. BY 1900 almost every RR was ordering locomotives with their unique specifications. So the first age of standardization ran from around 1850-1890. But even those were frequently modified by the railroads to some degree. E.E. Harriman became owner of several railroads in the early 1900s, including Union Pacific, Southern Pacific, Illinois Central, Central of Georgia, as well as owning large amounts of stock in other roads which he did not have complete control over. He developed standardized locomotive designs which could be ordered in huge lots and be distributed to his various holdings. He was a board member of the Erie RR and convinced them to purchase over 80 of his standard 2-8-0 consolidations, and his designs also appeared on other roads where he had an influence.
On the C&O 0-8-0s, IIRC, 30 of the final 1948 batch were sold to N&W in 1950. The N&W was so pleased with these that they built another 45 duplicates of that model, including #244, the very last steam locomotive built for domestic use in the USA. I'd also like to mention that I'm surprised the CofG 4-8-4s weren't mentioned alongside the SP GS6, as they were unstresmlined copies of the GS6, not the GS2.
interestingly enough, ORHF is trying to buy WP 484's tender so they can convert it to be 4449's newer, bigger Aux tender, which, even more interestingly is an old Cab Forward tender thats currently 4449's aux tender.
I looked up several northern type locomotives. The SP&S 700 looks similar to a design the Northern Pacific used. Plus the NP was the 1st American railroad to use the 4-8-4 configuration.
I think the Harriman Common Standard locomotives should be considered. The Harriman Common Standard locomotives from UP, SP, and IC were practically indistinguishable. 2-8-0s, 4-4-2s, 4-6-2s, and 2-8-2s (Mikado/MacArthur). Even the rebuilds/remanufactured locomotives were standardized to the point that they were, for all appearances and operations, the same. The Harriman Lines 4-4-0s were updated, and plans were renovated to evolve to such designs as the Espee E-23. I think the universal American locomotive would be the “American” 4-4-0. A third choice would be the Shay design. Logging roads to the New York Central and San Pedro Los Angeles & Salt Lake (later LASL) (Union Pacific) had Shay design to Willamette Iron Works designs.
Nice video! Love the GS-6's. I wish someone with deep pockets would rescue 4460. One minor correction is that the SP GS-6s did come with Franklin boosters installed. They later removed them in the twilight years.
Another group of wartime engines, the Central of Georgia K Class 4-8-4s, were like the the GS-6s-they were GS-2s without the skyline casing and with shorter tenders.
There were some challengers built for the Delaware and Hudson. I want to say they are UP heavy design but don't necessarily look like it off the bat as they applied their 'British treatment' to them, giving them a sleek, uncluttered appearance by hiding everything under boiler cladding and they featured headlights recessed into the smokebox front.
USed this for a story....The E3s and a lot of Big Boys and Challengers where actually sold as scrape to United Mage Rail and converted to mana assited jumpers for jumps between Earth and the Domhan Mor dimensional pocket. Changes included and enclosed cab for crews, an air injected fire box for more effeciant burning of coal along with runic array along the engine at frontm middle and back to interface with jump points. Plus a half again as long tender car with both more fuel and an attached condenser for the long distances across Domhan Mor.
The USRA designs were about as close as we ever got to having "universal" steam locomotives. Always a go-to for equipping a model railroad if custom power isn't available to buy or easy to kitbash. Slap a roadname on the tender and call it a day, if you want to get fancy kitbash a few appliances/cosmetics.
None of these steam locomotives were a common design other than wheel arrangement. Back in the steam days, locomotives were not only custom engineered for individual railroads, but custom engineered to run on specific divisions of those railroads. Comparing steam locomotives, even with the same wheel arrangement, from different railroads is like comparing apples to oranges. What worked so well on one railroad, may be a total disaster on another railroad.
Enjoyed your work as it's most informative. Suggest you give your videos a throught edit to catch those minor clitches and distractions. Thanks Andrew.
The Mikado got it's name because it was originally made for the Japanese rail service, but because the Japanese rail service used a different gauge track and wasn't able to use them as a result, so they were used by the US rail service
It's kinda stretching the topic but Chinese QJ class was partially based on the Soviet LV class, and I remember reading somewhere the LV was partially based on Stolen Nazi Kriegslok engines, but that part might not be true. Anyway 3 QJ's ended up in America during the preservation era, and one of them ran charity excursions and revenue freight trains until it recently went in for a rebuild. That's a lot of people using the same basic design.
Also called smoke lifters because the air they collected at the front of the loco got forced upward and as a result carried the smoke from the stack up and further above the loco cab making breathing easier for the engineer and train passengers.
What? UP had Shay's. Either way, my interest with geared locomotives was not up to snuff at the time. I'll look into it more the next time I make a sequel.
Yeah 3985 really needs to masquerade as D&RG 3802 because it needs More attention Like come on 844 and 4014 can't have all the attention for themselfs they need to share some with 3985
I stand with it. More compact for their weights, tractive efforts, and sizes. The Alleghanies are still cool, but machines aren't made the equally like us humans
@@AndrewTheRocketCityRailfan4014 agreed. I actually feel kinda sorry for the Alleghenys, that they were not used for what they were desined for, and that mis-calculated weight. If LIMA wrote the exact number as the actuall weight of the Alleghenys, and that the C&O and Virginian used them for their intended porpuse, i would have a higher likeing for them
Because I'm a terrible narrator of whom it's the voice that went all over the place, and I didn't have speakers, only headsets. Even I can’t listen my voice in this one because I can’t stand how abnormal it is. I didn’t even know how to sound normal yet. It wasn’t until I learned how to sound normal during voiceover(which was during the production of part 1 for my remastered Top 11 Retired Steam Excursion Stars) that I found out how to sound normal. Once I did, not only did my voice start sounding better and more resemblant of how I talk outdoors with others, but it also didn’t go all over the place like it does along with the audio in videos made before it(My E2 video is an exception though).
USRA would like to know your location Also the amount of times you break your own rules is fucking laughable, the Central ordered plenty of Hudsons for its subsidiaries (see the B&A especially,) technically speaking every railroad was a quasi subsidiary of the USRA when the Decapods were kept at home so those also don't count. the Berkshire development line is wrong, the Erie's came first, then along came the Plate's, which were coincidentally built at the same time as the NKP's, and the C&O's came as late as the NKP S2 class was being constructed, all of this was done out of the fact that the Van Sweringen brothers had a hand in the motive power decisions the roads had, and even then the Erie's berks didn't allow for much outside of more reliability and strength, the Erie's main already offered a steady paced, quick mainline with a good deal of variation in the grades and the like. the Wheeling berks also aren't Van Sweringens, they were built by ALCo, and ironically Plate crews remarked how they pulled a little harder than the original S class berks. grouping the 1309 under the USRAs is just outright silly, the design was BASED off the USRA design but it was not a USRA design outright, plus it was built too late to qualify. the early UP CSAs are not at all the same as the NP challengers. you also COMPLETELY forgot how the SP&S was joint owned as a subsidiary by the NP and the GN so that's out the window, and it should be noted that the GN HATED their Challengers and was basically forced to acquire them thanks in part to the shared motive power agreements between the NP, the SP&S, and the GN. also to shit on UP, it's not our most iconic--it's our most patriotic (even if it's just for marketing.)
Where are all of the geared locos? Shays, Climaxes, and Heislers were probably the most widely used and prolific designs shared/ordered by multiple railroads in all of North America. Why no love for the little curve shredding mountain climbers of logging and mining fame?
The USRA designs were about as close as we ever got to having "universal" steam locomotives. Always a go-to for equipping a model railroad if custom power isn't available to buy or easy to kitbash. Slap a roadname on the tender and call it a day, if you want to get fancy kitbash a few appliances/cosmetics.
Streamliners with smoke deflectors are such a vibe
I absolutely love the GS-6's. 4460 always had a special place in my heart ever since I saw her a when I was 5 years old. I really hope she runs again one day🙏
Agreed while GS-4 is Red and Orange But The GS-6 receive. White,Red and Blue clearly make it different!
She actually might.
I will turn the Southern Pacific GS-6 #4460 into the Western Pacific GS-64 #485 And Use The GS-64 #484's Tender Which Is Left Behind
Oh & My GS-64 #485 Would have the SP 6 Chime From NYS&W #142
Maybe the 4460 will doublehead with 4449 the Daylight
Fun fact- The famous picture of a train that had a boiler explosion in Ohio was a T1.
The USRA 0-8-0 and 0-6-0 also have a number of members preserved from various railroads, including L&N 2132.
If you wanna know, 2132 is not a USRA design, she's her own type. Although 2152 is a USRA design but heavily modded by the l&n.
@@LouisvilleNashville2132 Ah, okay. Thanks for the clarity.
9:18 RIP GTW #5629. Betrayed by the one who saved her. The tender from Western Pacific #484 survives though at the WPRM.
Yep, and I’m grateful that History In The Dark is encouraging others to spread the real truth with his 5629 video. I’ve known the real truth(that it was Jenson’s fault) ever since the day it was put up, and even shared in my community tab to announce my learning of the real truth so as to prevent further users from being mislead and making fun of me
If Richard Jensen got his shit together we wouldn't have lost her, 5629 was an unlucky case of how not to do steam preservation especially when lawsuits are coming
Nice history lesson of steam locomotives thank you so much 🙂👍
as of watching this video i saw 1604 yesterday
Yes, I DID enjoy this very informative video, immensely! Thank you for taking the time out of your busy life to research, produce and post it. It's a real labor of love.
Thanks for the info for how steam locomotives are compared to each other!
Boston and Maine R1d 4-8-2 and Lehigh and Hudson # 10 - 12. L&HR 10 - 12 were copies of the B&M R1.
A very well-thought-out list. I think my only addition would be the H7, H8, & H9 consolidations. Many railroads used them, or designs which were derived and practically identical to them. The ones off the top of the head that I can think of are the New York Central, P&LE, Western Maryland, P&WV, Bessemer & Lake Erie, Grand Trunk Western, W&LE, LS&I, the Montour Railroad, the N&W I believe, Illinois Central, as well as at least a dozen others.
IN the early days of railroads there was quite a lot of experimentation with different locomotive designs. By the 1850s or so there were multiple locomotive builders offering their own standard designs. Train lengths in the early days were limited by coupler strength and braking power, so huge locomotives were not really needed. The standard designs were more than good enough. By the end of the 19th century the knuckle coupler (patented 1873, standardized by 1893), air brakes (first patented 1869, with many improvements to follow), steel frames and improved draft gear allowed much longer trains to be operated safely. Railroads gradually began asking for locomotives customized for use on their lines. And each road had their own particular limitations, grades, curves, rail weight, bridge strength, speed limits, etc. BY 1900 almost every RR was ordering locomotives with their unique specifications.
So the first age of standardization ran from around 1850-1890. But even those were frequently modified by the railroads to some degree.
E.E. Harriman became owner of several railroads in the early 1900s, including Union Pacific, Southern Pacific, Illinois Central, Central of Georgia, as well as owning large amounts of stock in other roads which he did not have complete control over. He developed standardized locomotive designs which could be ordered in huge lots and be distributed to his various holdings. He was a board member of the Erie RR and convinced them to purchase over 80 of his standard 2-8-0 consolidations, and his designs also appeared on other roads where he had an influence.
On the C&O 0-8-0s, IIRC, 30 of the final 1948 batch were sold to N&W in 1950. The N&W was so pleased with these that they built another 45 duplicates of that model, including #244, the very last steam locomotive built for domestic use in the USA.
I'd also like to mention that I'm surprised the CofG 4-8-4s weren't mentioned alongside the SP GS6, as they were unstresmlined copies of the GS6, not the GS2.
interestingly enough, ORHF is trying to buy WP 484's tender so they can convert it to be 4449's newer, bigger Aux tender, which, even more interestingly is an old Cab Forward tender thats currently 4449's aux tender.
I looked up several northern type locomotives. The SP&S 700 looks similar to a design the Northern Pacific used. Plus the NP was the 1st American railroad to use the 4-8-4 configuration.
Believe it or not, the SP&S 700 is essentially an oil-burning NP A3, so therefore it is also the closest to an NP 4-8-4 still in existence.
I think the Harriman Common Standard locomotives should be considered. The Harriman Common Standard locomotives from UP, SP, and IC were practically indistinguishable. 2-8-0s, 4-4-2s, 4-6-2s, and 2-8-2s (Mikado/MacArthur). Even the rebuilds/remanufactured locomotives were standardized to the point that they were, for all appearances and operations, the same. The Harriman Lines 4-4-0s were updated, and plans were renovated to evolve to such designs as the Espee E-23.
I think the universal American locomotive would be the “American” 4-4-0. A third choice would be the Shay design. Logging roads to the New York Central and San Pedro Los Angeles & Salt Lake (later LASL) (Union Pacific) had Shay design to Willamette Iron Works designs.
The Western Maryland Potomac looks very similar to the Reading T1 but different
Yep
*patomic
@@chrisdelux125 no it’s Potomac not patomac
@@chrisdelux125 lol
@@theothermrsaturn You replace the letter I with a or the pre-last letter
The c&o t1s are mindBLOWing!
the Delaware and Hudson railroad also operated several UP spec. ALCO Challengers
Nice video! Love the GS-6's. I wish someone with deep pockets would rescue 4460. One minor correction is that the SP GS-6s did come with Franklin boosters installed. They later removed them in the twilight years.
Another group of wartime engines, the Central of Georgia K Class 4-8-4s, were like the the GS-6s-they were GS-2s without the skyline casing and with shorter tenders.
There were some challengers built for the Delaware and Hudson. I want to say they are UP heavy design but don't necessarily look like it off the bat as they applied their 'British treatment' to them, giving them a sleek, uncluttered appearance by hiding everything under boiler cladding and they featured headlights recessed into the smokebox front.
USed this for a story....The E3s and a lot of Big Boys and Challengers where actually sold as scrape to United Mage Rail and converted to mana assited jumpers for jumps between Earth and the Domhan Mor dimensional pocket. Changes included and enclosed cab for crews, an air injected fire box for more effeciant burning of coal along with runic array along the engine at frontm middle and back to interface with jump points. Plus a half again as long tender car with both more fuel and an attached condenser for the long distances across Domhan Mor.
You could count the shay designs as well
For the nyc J1’s you forgot to mention the 2 nyc Hudson sold to the Toronto Hamilton & Buffalo railway in 1948
The USRA designs were about as close as we ever got to having "universal" steam locomotives. Always a go-to for equipping a model railroad if custom power isn't available to buy or easy to kitbash.
Slap a roadname on the tender and call it a day, if you want to get fancy kitbash a few appliances/cosmetics.
None of these steam locomotives were a common design other than wheel arrangement. Back in the steam days, locomotives were not only custom engineered for individual railroads, but custom engineered to run on specific divisions of those railroads. Comparing steam locomotives, even with the same wheel arrangement, from different railroads is like comparing apples to oranges. What worked so well on one railroad, may be a total disaster on another railroad.
The Rio Grande had Baldwin made Challengers and didn't like having two different maintenance programs, especially as dieselization progressed
Enjoyed your work as it's most informative. Suggest you give your videos a throught edit to catch those minor clitches and distractions. Thanks Andrew.
The Portland Forney type was used on almost all of the Maine 2 foot gauge raioriads
At 8:55 the C&O 1309 is on static display near Huntington WV second to last steam locomotive built by Baldwin, a local group maintains her appearance.
Actually a the Tender of NYC Hudson J-1D 5313 has survived but has been converted into a steam heater car at Steamtown National Historic Site.
Very interesting topic. I thought the Lima challengers were used by other railroads other than the Chessie.
When did the Chessie used the challengers?
The Mikado got it's name because it was originally made for the Japanese rail service, but because the Japanese rail service used a different gauge track and wasn't able to use them as a result, so they were used by the US rail service
Did a double-take on the Allegheny, a real piece of art.
It's kinda stretching the topic but Chinese QJ class was partially based on the Soviet LV class, and I remember reading somewhere the LV was partially based on Stolen Nazi Kriegslok engines, but that part might not be true. Anyway 3 QJ's ended up in America during the preservation era, and one of them ran charity excursions and revenue freight trains until it recently went in for a rebuild. That's a lot of people using the same basic design.
14:25 my favorite part
I was hoping the Berkshires would show up! (Not sure how to pronounce/spell the actual name of them, but I’m glad to see they appeared)
Elephant Ears for deflecting smoke. Always wondered what those were called and the purpose they served.
Also called smoke lifters because the air they collected at the front of the loco got forced upward and as a result carried the smoke from the stack up and further above the loco cab making breathing easier for the engineer and train passengers.
The Frisco (SLSF) 4-8-4 is nearly identical to the Burlington (CB&Q) 4-8-4.
what about the shay??? it was used by many RR including UP
What? UP had Shay's. Either way, my interest with geared locomotives was not up to snuff at the time. I'll look into it more the next time I make a sequel.
What type of challengers did the D&H use?
I'm starting to thing some or most of the big Russian locomotives are made by American rail factory's
maybe 3985 will be painted up as a D&RGW loco at some point in time now that is going to return
It will be nice to see 3985 ride the rails again when she gets moved to the RRHMA in Silvis!
Only USRA heavy Pacifics were built for Erie. There are no heavy Pacifics left
Well OG ones, there are evolutions of the USRA heavy B&O 5300, A&WP 290 and Southern 1501 respectively.
The rio grande challengers are just such a bizarre concept
The SP G-1s stole 844’s wing deflectedera
question - pls, bigger wheels means the locomotive has higher forward velocity? goes faster? thank you
Wait unless I'm hearing this wrong, did the heavy challengers come out after big boy?
8:29 an 0-6-0 with a coal pusher in the tender? Also wasn't there a road that had a version of the Southern PS-4 class Pacifics?
narrow gauge railroads and railways:
Milwaukee Road S2 was copy of the Rock Island 5000 class.
Alaska Railroad s160 2-8-0s
What about all those locomotives (especially 4-4-0s) that were standard in the 1800s?
Southern 4501 has to be the most famous usra Mikado. If anyone thinks different fight me
Actually it's not, That locomotive was built in 1911 by Baldwin
3:52 *Did any of the seaboard airline 2-10-0s run in the state of Florida?*
the seaboard airline did run in florida
How about the S160 it was used by the ARR and all across the world
Ruski locomotives wild!@@
Ahhhh yes the PRR pigtails Ripping off others... What's new? : D
Reading t1
Hi I think that the Rock Island 4-8-4 (R57’s) were copied by other railroads.
cool
Yeah 3985 really needs to masquerade as D&RG 3802 because it needs More attention Like come on 844 and 4014 can't have all the attention for themselfs they need to share some with 3985
Surprising to see you here
@@mrsaturngamingandstories me too
Well bye
@@mrsaturngamingandstories bye
Excuse me but um, what? No?
Why would an SP GS not have a booster? XD last time i checked 4449 had one lol
GOOD JOB 809 MY SANTA FE
Slight mistake: The Virginian was never a subsidiary of the Norfolk & Western, just a friendly rival until the N&W bought them out in 1959.
BRITISH RAIL next
(Creative top 10s idea) Top 10 extinct Canadian steam locomotives
The N&W class As and UP Big Boys are better than the C&O Alleghenys
I stand with it. More compact for their weights, tractive efforts, and sizes. The Alleghanies are still cool, but machines aren't made the equally like us humans
@@AndrewTheRocketCityRailfan4014 agreed. I actually feel kinda sorry for the Alleghenys, that they were not used for what they were desined for, and that mis-calculated weight. If LIMA wrote the exact number as the actuall weight of the Alleghenys, and that the C&O and Virginian used them for their intended porpuse, i would have a higher likeing for them
Also, it's a shame that non of the Northern Pacific and SP&S Challengers were not preserved :(
fix the audio. I'm not turning the volume up and down to follow the playback.
Wasn't the 4 4 0 American of the mid to late 1800s also widely used?
I never thought about that. I went with 20th century designs. Maybe I might do one for 19th century ones in some form in the future
Your volume goes up and down and is kind of annoying. Good video, though.
Because I'm a terrible narrator of whom it's the voice that went all over the place, and I didn't have speakers, only headsets. Even I can’t listen my voice in this one because I can’t stand how abnormal it is. I didn’t even know how to sound normal yet. It wasn’t until I learned how to sound normal during voiceover(which was during the production of part 1 for my remastered Top 11 Retired Steam Excursion Stars) that I found out how to sound normal. Once I did, not only did my voice start sounding better and more resemblant of how I talk outdoors with others, but it also didn’t go all over the place like it does along with the audio in videos made before it(My E2 video is an exception though).
USRA would like to know your location
Also the amount of times you break your own rules is fucking laughable, the Central ordered plenty of Hudsons for its subsidiaries (see the B&A especially,) technically speaking every railroad was a quasi subsidiary of the USRA when the Decapods were kept at home so those also don't count. the Berkshire development line is wrong, the Erie's came first, then along came the Plate's, which were coincidentally built at the same time as the NKP's, and the C&O's came as late as the NKP S2 class was being constructed, all of this was done out of the fact that the Van Sweringen brothers had a hand in the motive power decisions the roads had, and even then the Erie's berks didn't allow for much outside of more reliability and strength, the Erie's main already offered a steady paced, quick mainline with a good deal of variation in the grades and the like.
the Wheeling berks also aren't Van Sweringens, they were built by ALCo, and ironically Plate crews remarked how they pulled a little harder than the original S class berks. grouping the 1309 under the USRAs is just outright silly, the design was BASED off the USRA design but it was not a USRA design outright, plus it was built too late to qualify. the early UP CSAs are not at all the same as the NP challengers. you also COMPLETELY forgot how the SP&S was joint owned as a subsidiary by the NP and the GN so that's out the window, and it should be noted that the GN HATED their Challengers and was basically forced to acquire them thanks in part to the shared motive power agreements between the NP, the SP&S, and the GN.
also to shit on UP, it's not our most iconic--it's our most patriotic (even if it's just for marketing.)
Where are all of the geared locos? Shays, Climaxes, and Heislers were probably the most widely used and prolific designs shared/ordered by multiple railroads in all of North America. Why no love for the little curve shredding mountain climbers of logging and mining fame?
The USRA designs were about as close as we ever got to having "universal" steam locomotives. Always a go-to for equipping a model railroad if custom power isn't available to buy or easy to kitbash.
Slap a roadname on the tender and call it a day, if you want to get fancy kitbash a few appliances/cosmetics.
And we still have dozens of them left