I did this a couple years ago with my original t1 from 2003 and t4 16. Pillow ball suspension and one way. Indoor on crc carpet. I tried both modern rubber and old foam tires. Massive traction roll with the t1. It was really only driveable with 21.5 motor. I used a lipo saddle pack, but a pretty bad radio, esc and servo. After watching your video i'd like to do it again. I found a nos stratus body and I would use a better radio. I also have a t4 20 and x4 now to compare. I have done this with offroad cars too. Very cool Alex, thanks!
I just purchased a T1 Team model (with Schumacher dampers) to race Touring Car at my local indoor carpet track. I wanted something belt drive and high quality to race with. Even though it’s old it’s very nice. It should do well as the track is small and the atmosphere is “have fun and participate”.
The other day I got an x-ray from Facebook marketplace that looks exactly like your t1 but mine has upper a arms in the front and the carbon plate on top of the front bumper is fully connected between the two front body posts. Is mine the very first t1 model released?
Really nice video Alex and I'm glad you mentioned the body - if you could have got a modern body to fit the T1 I'm sure you would have had got some of that missing steering back and been even closer on the times. I do miss the days when touring cars actually looked like touring cars...
I still have the T1R Raycer from X-ray. Recently I started driving with it again with too modern electronics. Have been too long away from a RC track or just RC riding in general. Now waiting for dry weather to get on the road again. Enjoyed your video!
@@denniszellers6423 yes the TC3 would be a great comparison with the 7 to show advancements, or how about a first gen 10L against the last of the 10 models?
I’ve always thought about taking the old cars off the wall and racing them. The problem I’ve always have is figuring out how to make Lipos fit in old saddle pack cars.
This is really, really interesting. If the T1 had the same body and double joint driveshaft, the results would have been more similar. I think there doesn't seem to be much change in chassis capability for a 20-year gap. Again, the powertrain is the biggest factor.
Agreed. The advancements have really come from the introduction of brushless and LiPo's as well as more stable / less glitchy 2.4GHz radios and digital servos. On reflection, ball diffs were the big thing 20 or so gears ago with gear diffs cast aside. Now I'm seeing gear diffs everywhere with ball diffs not commonly used. Perhaps this is due to the torque, but I'd also say the easier rebuild and setup of the gear diff makes up for the few extra grams of weight it may induce. I've returned to the hobby with an Associated TC4 running 13.5t. The car has ball diffs and shaft drive, two things not commonly seen on modern chassis. But it manages to hold its own against the more modern chassis at my local club. I do have to confess I've bought an X4 '22 to see what the difference is, and having only done one run with it so far I'm impressed with the 'out the box' setup - I recall the TC4 took a few option parts and changes to the base setup to get it tuned for carpet racing, but the X4 'just worked'.
actually i do remember the first time Alexander Hagberg visit the local track in my area everybody that saw his xray went drooling and eaven i went amazed about the milled alu parts and carbon fibre parts. some members of that club got hold of xray cars as fast as posible as they where like the next generation of touring cars. since that time i always had a dream and feelings about xray tho i at that time couldent afford an xray at that time i gone and filled that dream last year as i got hold of a brand new box of XB2-22 last year soon after they released those cars.
Great comparison Alex!! I'm so glad you did this. I've wondered the same thing for years. The T1 Evo2 was a BEAST on carpet with foam tires. I wonder how it would fare now on rubber tires against the X4 on carpet?
The car makes really good traction! But I think it would be difficult to make it turn as much as the X4 without violently grip rolling on black carpet!
I remember when they released the T1, it was a straight copy of the Corally touring car. I hade the Corally touring car and we bought alu part from the T1 to fit on the Corally :)
@@hagberg you mentioned testing carbon chassis on carpet, 2mm or thicker? I remember some 3mm from awhile back with the bulkheads recessed down into chassis. Basically do you think a thicker bottom plate would work or even thick upper as well?
Hi Alex, great video. and very interesting findings. From a totally new to the hobby I would add a couple of points: 1 - The human factor is important and ofter neglected. Point being other drivers could find it harder to adapt to older technologies and they would probably get bigger time differences. 2 - Has tyre and electronics technology evolved more in 20 years than the design of chassis? It would be interesting to compare side by side two X4s, one with 20 year old electronics and tyres (if we could get a few sets now). My take would be that based only on tires, the time difference could be more than just half a second. Thanks for sharing
1. You're right. In fact it took me quite some time to adapt my driving style to the handling of the T1. 2. Tire technology is in fact the only one on the car which hasn't evolved in the last 20 years. If anything, the tires are worse today than they were back then! But the electronics are of course massively different, much more powerful these days!
Interesting comparison, Alex. As you pointed out, the body played a bit of a factor as well, which is something I personally experienced last year. Due to a product mishap with a body shell I had ordered online and last minute for my first race in 20 years, I had to use an old Protoform Honda Accord shell that I still had new in the bag from my previous RC life. 🙂 The Accord is from the same era as the Alfa you used. A fellow brand driver (sorry, I drive another brand that I won’t mention here 😉) lent me an extra Protoform Turismo that he had, and the body change alone improved my lap times .4 a lap… Makes you wonder what the T1 might do if it could accommodate a modern shell… On the other hand, I still love those old bodies, which remind me of my early days with pan cars where we regularly ran the Jaguar XJR10’s, the Nissan GTP ZX-Turbos, and the Porsche 962’s. Cars easily identifiable with the IMSA prototypes of that era…. But yes, the new shells are yet another innovation in the quest for speed and grip. Anyway - yes, I drive another brand chassis, but I still love the innovation that XRay and others have brought to the class in recent years, and the X4 is yet another push forward. This is why I love to follow ALL brands and how they continue to advance the hobby/sport.
Thanks for your message. I agree with you. And for the record, I absolutely LOVE the late 80's and early 90's LMP/IMSA prototypes. Some of the most beautiful racing cars in history in my opinion!
If I were XRay CeoI wouldn’t have allowed publishing this video: it shows clearly that technical progress weighs very little and that it is only a prowess question
How about minimum ground clearance. How about all championship touring car races are done on parking lots. How about some rules on how far you can go from real cars on the shape of the body? How about minimum droop and suspension travel rules? How about picking a battery size and sticking with it? How about tires that are made to drive many race events? Noooo we will just let things get more and more out of hand to the class dies. I get to watch off road die now.
That was great Alex. I was also very surprised how well you wheeled the old T1. Low bite tracks are great equalizers.
I'm an off road racers and I enjoyed this comparison.... keep those videos coming... awesome job
Awesome. Really one of the best rc video ever seen, a joy for guys like me who loves tech aspects. Thank you very much Alex to have done.
grande Alexander ma non'ho ancora capito quanti anni hai, se già vent'anni fa eri un drive man di XRAY, oggi invece sei un esempio per tutti!!BRAVO.
Had the T1 way back when and it came with a free tool kit which I still use to this day
Awesome video! My T1 Factory Kit is getting reassembled ASAP, and getting back to the track :)
Great video, Alexander. Thanks for taking the time to share this with us.
Fantastic to see this comparison and get your commentary of there feel. Many thanks for sharing 👏👏👏
I did this a couple years ago with my original t1 from 2003 and t4 16. Pillow ball suspension and one way. Indoor on crc carpet. I tried both modern rubber and old foam tires. Massive traction roll with the t1. It was really only driveable with 21.5 motor. I used a lipo saddle pack, but a pretty bad radio, esc and servo. After watching your video i'd like to do it again. I found a nos stratus body and I would use a better radio. I also have a t4 20 and x4 now to compare. I have done this with offroad cars too. Very cool Alex, thanks!
Alexander, thanks. Great video! Very interesting video, especially considering the cost of T1 relative to X1 ... :)
I just purchased a T1 Team model (with Schumacher dampers) to race Touring Car at my local indoor carpet track. I wanted something belt drive and high quality to race with. Even though it’s old it’s very nice. It should do well as the track is small and the atmosphere is “have fun and participate”.
The other day I got an x-ray from Facebook marketplace that looks exactly like your t1 but mine has upper a arms in the front and the carbon plate on top of the front bumper is fully connected between the two front body posts. Is mine the very first t1 model released?
Hi mate, this question will be difficult for me to answer without seeing a picture. Do you mind sending me a picture or a link to a picture?
@hagberg I don't know how to send a picture to someone on RUclips. Do you have Facebook?
@@brsrc759Facebook.com/alexander.hagberg
Really nice video Alex and I'm glad you mentioned the body - if you could have got a modern body to fit the T1 I'm sure you would have had got some of that missing steering back and been even closer on the times.
I do miss the days when touring cars actually looked like touring cars...
I was enjoy the video on this interesting comparison, I still drive my T208 sometime and it goes very good run, thx Alexander.
I still have the T1R Raycer from X-ray. Recently I started driving with it again with too modern electronics.
Have been too long away from a RC track or just RC riding in general.
Now waiting for dry weather to get on the road again.
Enjoyed your video!
BRAVO Mr Hagberg. Pas très commercial pour Xray mais très honnête. Un top pilotes sur une ancienne voiture reste un top pilote. Super vidéo. Merci.
Nice video Alex💪🔝
Superb video and comparison, I would love to see an AE comparison of sorts one day from a team driver just like you did here with the X 🤙🏻
Associated doesn't have an onroad program anymore. That said I'm sure the tc3 wouldn't be super far off of the tc7.2.👍🏼
@@denniszellers6423 yes the TC3 would be a great comparison with the 7 to show advancements, or how about a first gen 10L against the last of the 10 models?
@@jderbedrossian I think they bailed on the 10L5 maybe. I have the necessary cars for this shootout tho.👍🏼
@@denniszellers6423 that would be sweet bud🤙🏻
@@jderbedrossian the 10L is still a capable pan car with today's electronics I'd imagine. Still one of the best front end designs.
I am a 100% buggyman but this was very nice to see. You make good videos. Bra pratat!
Thank you for sharing this very interesting comparison.
Great video Alexander!!👍🏼
I’ve always thought about taking the old cars off the wall and racing them. The problem I’ve always have is figuring out how to make Lipos fit in old saddle pack cars.
Actually much easier than you'd think, lcg shorty lipos can fit in some really tight chassis.
Drew maxamps still makes saddle packs in lipo, I run one in my 10LSS
Nice video Alex. Did you try to put the alfa bodyshell on the X4 ?
Very interesting look at the old and the new. Thanks!
Beautiful comparision, good job! 😀👍
This proves my point. Getting driving skills up beats investing in getting the latest (talking club level only)
This is really, really interesting. If the T1 had the same body and double joint driveshaft, the results would have been more similar. I think there doesn't seem to be much change in chassis capability for a 20-year gap. Again, the powertrain is the biggest factor.
Agreed. The advancements have really come from the introduction of brushless and LiPo's as well as more stable / less glitchy 2.4GHz radios and digital servos.
On reflection, ball diffs were the big thing 20 or so gears ago with gear diffs cast aside. Now I'm seeing gear diffs everywhere with ball diffs not commonly used. Perhaps this is due to the torque, but I'd also say the easier rebuild and setup of the gear diff makes up for the few extra grams of weight it may induce.
I've returned to the hobby with an Associated TC4 running 13.5t. The car has ball diffs and shaft drive, two things not commonly seen on modern chassis. But it manages to hold its own against the more modern chassis at my local club. I do have to confess I've bought an X4 '22 to see what the difference is, and having only done one run with it so far I'm impressed with the 'out the box' setup - I recall the TC4 took a few option parts and changes to the base setup to get it tuned for carpet racing, but the X4 'just worked'.
actually i do remember the first time Alexander Hagberg visit the local track in my area everybody that saw his xray went drooling and eaven i went amazed about the milled alu parts and carbon fibre parts.
some members of that club got hold of xray cars as fast as posible as they where like the next generation of touring cars.
since that time i always had a dream and feelings about xray tho i at that time couldent afford an xray at that time i gone and filled that dream last year as i got hold of a brand new box of XB2-22 last year soon after they released those cars.
Great comparison Alex!! I'm so glad you did this. I've wondered the same thing for years. The T1 Evo2 was a BEAST on carpet with foam tires. I wonder how it would fare now on rubber tires against the X4 on carpet?
The car makes really good traction! But I think it would be difficult to make it turn as much as the X4 without violently grip rolling on black carpet!
That was brilliant and very informative thank you👍👍
Is the X-ray t1 fk05 the same as the t1 evo
With the high spur gear and the belt drive it looks similar to the Tamiya TA04 from around the same era.
Nice video! I'd have to imagine if you put in electronics from that time period it would have been over a second slower, maybe 1.5 seconds!! Thanks!!
Great video
I still love the t1 evo 2 it was such a great car back in the day!
I remember when they released the T1, it was a straight copy of the Corally touring car. I hade the Corally touring car and we bought alu part from the T1 to fit on the Corally :)
Do another test on a high grip track!!
I'm very tempted to do that. Would be way bigger difference. Or even black carpet. That thing would traction roll if you just touched the wheel!
@@hagberg you mentioned testing carbon chassis on carpet, 2mm or thicker? I remember some 3mm from awhile back with the bulkheads recessed down into chassis. Basically do you think a thicker bottom plate would work or even thick upper as well?
@@denniszellers6423 The T1FK kit had an optional 3.5mm thick chassis! The bulkheads were indeed recessed into the chassis!
Your X4 has horizontal body mounts as well as the usual vertical ones? So 6 clips hold it on?
Wow 20 years and only 5/10ths better, I would have thought 1 second minimum if not more. Cool comparison though.
Hi Alex, great video. and very interesting findings.
From a totally new to the hobby I would add a couple of points:
1 - The human factor is important and ofter neglected. Point being other drivers could find it harder to adapt to older technologies and they would probably get bigger time differences.
2 - Has tyre and electronics technology evolved more in 20 years than the design of chassis? It would be interesting to compare side by side two X4s, one with 20 year old electronics and tyres (if we could get a few sets now). My take would be that based only on tires, the time difference could be more than just half a second.
Thanks for sharing
1. You're right. In fact it took me quite some time to adapt my driving style to the handling of the T1.
2. Tire technology is in fact the only one on the car which hasn't evolved in the last 20 years. If anything, the tires are worse today than they were back then! But the electronics are of course massively different, much more powerful these days!
@@hagberg Wondering what made the tires back then better?
@@adtjtjdjsj more rubber content. Not as much synthetic ingredients.
Interesting comparison, Alex. As you pointed out, the body played a bit of a factor as well, which is something I personally experienced last year. Due to a product mishap with a body shell I had ordered online and last minute for my first race in 20 years, I had to use an old Protoform Honda Accord shell that I still had new in the bag from my previous RC life. 🙂 The Accord is from the same era as the Alfa you used.
A fellow brand driver (sorry, I drive another brand that I won’t mention here 😉) lent me an extra Protoform Turismo that he had, and the body change alone improved my lap times .4 a lap… Makes you wonder what the T1 might do if it could accommodate a modern shell… On the other hand, I still love those old bodies, which remind me of my early days with pan cars where we regularly ran the Jaguar XJR10’s, the Nissan GTP ZX-Turbos, and the Porsche 962’s. Cars easily identifiable with the IMSA prototypes of that era…. But yes, the new shells are yet another innovation in the quest for speed and grip.
Anyway - yes, I drive another brand chassis, but I still love the innovation that XRay and others have brought to the class in recent years, and the X4 is yet another push forward. This is why I love to follow ALL brands and how they continue to advance the hobby/sport.
Thanks for your message. I agree with you. And for the record, I absolutely LOVE the late 80's and early 90's LMP/IMSA prototypes. Some of the most beautiful racing cars in history in my opinion!
Should have tried the Alfa body on the x4 for a fair comparison.
Nice video though, 👍👍
The t1 probably would have beaten the X4 🤣
Xray should do a vintage re-release of the evo 2FOC, it would sell like hot cakes🔥
This is probably a reason to keep racing my T4 2016, i need to get better, not a better car.
And could you do it with a T4 against the X4 please. And please without sandbagging.
I think you missed chassis flex. Old cars had little flex. New designs control the flex along the chassis centerline.
Interesting an informative
Great that you did this! What about cross platform next?
Thanks! As for cross platform - what did you have in mind?
@@hagberg a mix of X4, gtx8(e), Nt1, rx8 or for indoor x4 vs x10, x12, x1
Nice.
Any chance of being able to buy that T1 from you? 🙏
I borrowed the car from a friend, and I am afraid that it won't be up for sale!
@@hagberg 😭
Ang. kaross du skulle ha satt Alfan på X4:an. Den moderna karossen passade ju inte på T1, men Alfan hade passat på X4:an. Kul test du gjorde. (o:
I am sure in stock the difference would be even smaller
Vad har du för esc på x4? fläktgsllret ser lite annorlunda ut?
Grym video.
HW prototyp reglage (släpps snart!)
I have the 12 scale T1 mini Touring carbon fiber the T1 10 scales little bro ahah
Ahhh yes…..the days when a built chassis fit into the box it came in.
Please send the T1 to me . I'm not surprised by the results .
Pillow ball setup
#mydreamcomparison!
Put alfa body in the x4 and show us the results😉
If I were XRay CeoI wouldn’t have allowed publishing this video: it shows clearly that technical progress weighs very little and that it is only a prowess question
So in a few words Xray is Always Great! 👍 😉
I still run my t1
How about minimum ground clearance. How about all championship touring car races are done on parking lots. How about some rules on how far you can go from real cars on the shape of the body? How about minimum droop and suspension travel rules? How about picking a battery size and sticking with it? How about tires that are made to drive many race events? Noooo we will just let things get more and more out of hand to the class dies. I get to watch off road die now.
it´s not the RC Car, it´s the Pilot.