Это видео недоступно.
Сожалеем об этом.
Predestination: Do we have a choice? | Ep 132
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 30 июн 2019
- Does God choose us as believers? What about free will?
► Subscribe to the podcast:
iTunes: apple.co/2UVssnP
Spotify: spoti.fi/2FwkXxj
Google Play: bit.ly/2HJ3CVu
Connect with Allie on Social Media:
/ conservmillen
/ alliebstuckey
/ allieblazetv
The issue is repeatedly framed inaccurately by Allie. The issue is not whether "predestination" is biblical, but is it Calvinistic (as she believes it to be). In other words, it's not, "Does the Bible teach predestination?," but rather, "Is the Biblical teaching of predestination the same as what Calvinists believe it to be?" Of course the Bible teaches that God predestines certain things--the word is used, after all--but it never teaches that God unconditionally predestines certain individuals to faith and others to be left unchangeably to being lost. So, Allie just frames the questions at the beginning as a matters of "predestination," but does not make it clear that Calvinists understand "predestination" as something different than non-Calvinists.
Best comment I've read in a long time regarding this subject. Seriously. Thank you my friend.
This. Allie is usually so good. But is soooooo bad on the subject of reformed theology.
God loved us since before the foundation of the world. And he loved us, not by works done by us in righteousness, but because of his own mercy and grace. If God loved us before we were ever born, before we ever had thoughts or desires, or made any decisions or acted in this world, then that means that his love is unconditional.
@@nerychristian Yes. But his salvation is not. It is through faith. That makes it conditional.
@@nerychristian Sure. But Calvinists assume He does that irresistibly. They assume we cannot choose to keep them closed.
Love the video. Just my 2 cents though. Foreknowledge and pre destiny are not the same thing. God can have all knowledge and all power and still have the restraint to allow us to make decisions. Allowing others to have a choice does not show that God lacks power. I believe that just shows His power.
Totally agree! And more importantly, the Bible shows this.
I think its both. God knows the choices we are going to make and confirms it.
for example in exodus is says both Pharaoh hardened his own heart and God hardens pharaohs heart.
We make the choice but God uses those who he knows their heart and the choices they will make even millennia before they are born.
Matt Miller this is exactly right. God creates the system of free will that we are bound by and he acts within the boundary he created. First level predestination is way different than second level predestination...
My youth pastor teaches that God is sovereign and all powerful and that he carries out his will through our free choices
Humans make choices all the time. But the reason they make their choices is because first God himself determined all the choices that would ever be made. So yes, we effectively are playing out a simulation that was all pre-programmed.
“ The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance. “ Peter
Amen. The Calvinist never seems to see the condition in any of their prooftext. The “Sovereignty of God”, that term is no where in the Bible, but freewill and willingly is. They think just because God knows everything, that means he ordained it all before Genesis 1:1. They use Romans 9 as their proof text but never actually read Exodus
@@JesusSaves1611 I see how you study Scripture with a biaist mind. That's known as eisegesis.
Have you ever studied the doctrines of grace? Have you ever studied Arminianism and Calvinism? Or just one side.
A personal hypothetical question, if God was with you face to face and said, "I have chosen/elected to save one person in the entire human history and did/will not chose to save anyone else, but that one person." What would you tell him?
If he would've told you, "you nor anyone has freewill, only I. You and everyone else are my robots/puppets. And I have decreed for everyone to go to Hell." What would you say to him?
@@thetruthinhim8862 , you said a bunch, and proposed some hypotheticals, but we really care about what the Bible says. The Bible says Christ tasted death for Everyman, and god reconciled the world to himself, via Jesus Christ.
How can “tasted death for every man” = “only for the elect chosen ones, and the rest get hell”? It Cant.
@@craigjoyner9857 ah! Praise God for universalism then! Those are good news indeed! Since Jesus tasted death for every human being then every person should not tasted death nor the wrath of God. And since every person is reconciled then every individual (including Hitler, Nero, Judas Iscariot, Julius Cesar, Goliath, Hilary Clinton, etc.) that ever existed will be blessed in the presence of the Lord! I am sure these people will be worshipping the Tirune God one day since they have been reconciled to God and death has been tasted on their behalf.
@@thetruthinhim8862 , the Bible says we have to be reconciled twice. You know that, right?!?
From a post I made in a group on Facebook.
The Universal Boogieman
We see a lot of the same old, bad arguments around here. Maybe we should try to put some of those to bed, so we can discuss topics and understandings that are more along the lines of what we should be debating. The one that I’ve heard for years is the universal atonement boogieman argument, if you don’t hold to limited atonement. It’s a really bad argument, that we should stop using.
****
See Colossians 1 below. God reconciled all things to himself, via Jesus Christ shed blood (verse 20). This is the corporal aspect of the atonement, strictly between the fathers just wrath, being bore by the son, who had no sin while suffering the punishment for sin. This required no action by man, this by itself does not forgive anyone’s sins, it simply makes salvation by grace possible for everyone, including the Old Testament saints who had to wait in Abraham’s bosom, for Christ to get them and present them as blameless because they obeyed in faith in the Old Testament. See below.
Colossians 1:20-23 KJV
[20] And, having 👉🏿made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. 👈🏿[21] And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled [22] In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: [23] 👉🏿If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, 👈🏿and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
Note the conditionality above in verse 22 and 23. We are only presented before the father as holy and blameless, when we have submitted to Jesus Christ in faith and remains steady and grounded (ie enduring until the end).
In 2 cor below, note that god reconciled the world to himself (as Col 1 demonstrated), then sends the ministry of reconciliation (the gospel), and then calls for us to “be reconciled”.
We have to be reconciled twice. God reconciled back With all mankind, via Jesus Christ accomplished work, strictly between the father and the son. This is when the veil is torn from top to bottom, breaking down the wall of enmity, so salvation is now possible. That is corporal reconciliation. Then we are preached the gospel, and when we submit in faith, then we are reconciled (individual reconciliation) and must endure to the end.
2 Corinthians 5:19-21 KJV
[19] To wit, that God was in Christ, 👉🏿reconciling the world unto himself, 👈🏿not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the 👉🏿word of reconciliation.👈🏿 [20] Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, 👉🏿be ye reconciled to God.👈🏿 [21] For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; 👉🏿that we might be made 👈🏿the righteousness of God in him.
It’s really really clear. I don’t know why anyone would assert that you have to be a universalist, when the scriptures make it plain that the atonement is made for all, so all can be saved, but only applies to those who submit in faith.
Lastly, I made a video about it already. See below. Play it at 1.5 speed, because I was sick when I made it and talked slow.
A Calvinist dies and goes to heaven. When he arrives, he sees two lines to get in. One's labelled "Predestination" and one is labelled "Free Will". So, he goes to the back of the Predestination line and waits his turn.
When he gets to the front of the line, the angel asks, "Why did you get in this line?" to which he relies, "Well, I believe in predestination, so I chose to get in this line." The angel shakes his head and says, "No, in that case you need to be over in the free will line" - so off he goes and joins the free will line.
When he gets to the front of the free will line the Angel asks him "why are you in the free will line?" and the Calvinist answers - "that guy over there told me to"
Wow!
LOL
Now that’s funny!!
I have a better one:
As you head to enter the gates of heaven right above the gates is a sign that says "whosoever will" and when you enter and look back at the pearly gates there's a sign above the entrance that says "chosen by God".
Ahh someone explain it I want to understand the joke too 😂
When it comes to predestination I have no problem saying I have no idea, we'll find out when we're dead. In the meantime it's best not to presume.
The Bible clear about freewill. Predestination, election and adoption are all under a condition but the Calvinist always seems to miss the condition. Anyways, 2 Peter 3:9 “NOT willing that ANY should perish, but ALL should come to repentance” no point in having this verse and many other verses like this if we were all “ordained” before genesis 1:1. “Sovereignty of God” term is no where in the Bible and when they use their prooftext like Eph1:4, Peter, and etc and their examples. They always miss out on something in the scriptures. “Freewill” and “willingly” are biblical terms Ezra 1:4-6 is just the first one out of many. Predestination is real but there is a condition. See if you can find it in Eph 1:4
No need to presume anything brother. All the answers you need are right there in Scripture and it is crystal clear on this issue. Predestination should makes us humble and grateful. Unfortunately it makes some people lazy and arrogant. But that’s typical of sinful man. God is in complete control-Colossians 1;16 and many others make this abundantly clear. God bless.
@Michael Lopez 2 Peter 3 is speaking of the believers. Please refer to the Greek Lexicon for "any" and "all" as they can be translated to mean certain groups (i.e., those who are morally justified). Furthermore, verse 9 talks about God's promise. Who is He making a promise to? Does He not fulfill all His promises or is He a liar? Does He promise that any and all will be saved in the literal sense or those whom He justified?
The words "Trinity" or "omnipotence" are not found in the Bible either, but the concepts are located within the scriptures just as God's sovereignty is (see passages Psalm 103:19, 115:3, Job 42:2, and Proverbs 19:21 for examples).
We do have a will, but our will is to do evil (Romans 3:9-18 and James 1:13-15) and we are slaves to sin before regeneration (John 8:34 and Romans 6:6-7).
Be blessed :)
@@JesusSaves1611 if He truly wills that none would perish, don't you think He is powerful enough to make that happen?
I believe God has a plan for everyone. It's up to the person to go with God's plan, or go against it. That's what free will is. Every time in my life that I'm doing what I believe God wants me to do the ride always seems smoother. Other times, when I'm away from God, life is much more difficult. I don't believe it's coincidence.
There is no such thing as free will
If we had free will, we would choose hell. Our flesh, in its nature, hates God.
@@cariowithchan That seems like a major generalization.
@@rachelderosa6380 No, that's just the way it is.
@@steventhury8366 Where is an example in Scripture?
The question of predestination isn't where God wants our focus. The idea that God only loves some of his creation is childish. We are all predestined for salvation. That is what Christ did. Only we can change that. God exists outside of time that is true. But we do not. Prayer works, we have work to do here and what we do matters. If I'm not mistaken it says that hell was not intended for any of us. Predestination is a theological distraction.
With all due respect, if predestination is not where God wants our focus (in your opinion), predestination is certainly talked about throughout the Bible enough that it can't be ignored - which means it probably shouldn't be ignored - and therefore I think it does demand our focus.
What about John 3:16? For WHOSOEVER believes in Him?
God, being outside time, knows the end of a thing before it begins. Predestination may not be that dissimilar from His ability to use someone's evil intentions to further a larger good result that is part of his plans. He can weave our simple actions that are locked in time into his timeless plans. I agree with Allie that it is not hard at all for me to believe God can see our hearts even before we are conceived and as he judges the intentions of our hearts , knows which of us will choose to love him even while we are flawed and then he works out plans in our favor. He doesn't need to violate our small freewill to also have chosen is before we existed because he knew everything about us before we existed. Free will and the sovereignty of ancient of days can coexist because He created ALL things, including free will.
I cannot believe this is 3 years old, I would've thought this to have just been posted recently since it is so incredible! How have I only come across it now? I will be sharing it with everyone as this is so far the best, quickest, and biblically accurate explanation of predestination. Others rely too much on their emotions than on the almighty One. My husband and I will continue to pray blessings and continued strength to you and your family, Allie, as God has great plans for you! Thank you for speaking out on truth, regardless of how unpopular it may be.
What's the theme of Romans chapter 9 - that God has favorites based on His sovereign selection? No, that's Calvinism! Fact is God doesn't pick some to be lost and some to be saved. That's a misunderstanding of Paul's writings. Then how do we approach Romans chapter 9?
Well, there are some key verses that run though the whole chapter. Let's look at those and then try to understand Paul's point:
Verse 11: "not of works but of Him who calls"
Verses 15,16: "I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion. So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy."
Verses 30-32: "What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness of faith; but Israel, pursuing the law of righteousness, has not attained to the law of righteousness. Why? Because they did not seek it by faith, but as it were, by the works of the law."
What's Paul's point? God will not have mercy on the Jew or Gentile who insists that God must must allow him into heaven based on his performance. That's all Paul is saying.
Now go To Eph 1:7,10,11 "In Him (in Christ) we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace...In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, having been PREDESTINED according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will..."
What's Paul saying? That "in Christ" God has predestined "all men". In Him we have redemption based on His mercy - not based on men's works.
That's why Paul states the following in Gal 1:6 "If we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed..."
There's only one way into heaven and that is faith "in Christ". Any other way God will not accept!!! Therefore God will have mercy on the person who puts His faith in Christ's performance, but He will not have mercy on the one who expects a reward based on or in his law performance.
Wow God is surly using you as a mouth piece for himself, your teachings (not preaching) is truth! Thank you & keep doing what you’re doing, you are a light & God is so so good 🙌🏼
- "faith (comes by) hearing and [hearing by] the word of God" - is the rightly divided explanation as to this
I have always thought that God just knows everything. He wants all of us to come to Him but He can't help but see whether or not we will come to Him.
that creates a picture of a God who is pacing with fingers crossed hoping someone takes His gift, not a very powerfull image:)
The Apostle Paul was confronted by a God who intervenes in human affairs.
I’ve never met a Calvanist who thought it possible that their own children could possibly not be in the elect.
That is just not true. No one in my church believes that and I interact with many other Reformed fellowships. We all recognize that our children are not necessarily elect. We teach our kids and pray that God will save them. Infant baptism is not a proclamation that our children are saved. People completely misunderstand the Reformed faith.
I disagree. There are plenty who raise up their own children in fear and admonition of the Lord, but one child is a born-again Believer while the other child is reprobate.
Curious: Do Calvanists believe the elect is changeable. That God will change His mind on who the elect are by our prayers?
If predestination is true, you hen why do you Christians get e upset with woke cultural, it is all predestibed, you there is nothing you can do. Also, the woke can't change because God doesn't care or love them. And if the woke are going to hell and you ate going to heaven, shouldn't you step aside and let them do as they want on Earth.
Calvinist have a false soteriology crafted by Satan. Sadly many will not see this until they see Jesus.
God is the author of all. We are like characters in the finest novel. Like characters in a story, we experience our life fully and our choices matter and have consequences. Thankfully we can rest in the truth that God is in control of how history and our lives play out. The rejection of predestination has profound implications in how our faith plays out. Scripture is foundational. There is so much peace that can be found in biblical truth of predestination.
I know that this is old but I'm so encouraged that you talked this topic and did so exactly with the truth of scripture. Not that this is easy teaching but all believers are required to submit to what scripture actually says.
So certain people are predestined to go to hell no matter what they do? How is that even remotely fair or just?
Why submit? I’m not elect…. Jesus died for some.
It’s illogical.
Do we have a choice? Yes and because of the fall and mankind's radical corruption man always chooses against God, man has freedom to choose the sin he desires but when the grace of God appeared hearts were changed by God the Holy Spirit, not by works of righteousness which we have done but according to His mercy He saved us. Amen. Anyone who claims election & predestination makes God into a monster is someone who is deeply deceived and still hasn't understood who they are and who God is.
If you always choose something and can’t not choose it, that’s called determinism
Also not a choice
Dead is dead. Just as a dead person can not reach for oxygen or even breathe the air around them…the same is for the spirit dead…He has made alive. What faith we have is by Him…it’s ALL Him.
Great explanation of an unpopular and difficult theological concept. Our Western culture rejects the idea of a king, who is in control of all things. It just blows our mind!
The context of Romans 9 isn't salvation. It's raising up or hardening people for His purposes to be accomplished on Earth. Jacob (Israel) was God's chosen vessel to establish a nation on Earth. That doesn't mean that God predestined Jacob for heaven and Esau for hell. It just means that God determined that Jacob was better suited for establishing a covenant people to bring God's Kingdom to Earth.
25:59 While our free will is not the source of the grace, it is the thing God ordained as accepting it.
Well said sister!!!! We are not worthy and only Jesus grace
No we don't but God so loved THE WORLD (not the elect) that He gave His only begotten son that WHOSOEVER shall believe in Him shall not perish (be damned to hell) but have everlasting life. Jn 3-16
At 24:24 I'd like to put my spin on it. Thinking of it this way has helped me to somewhat better 'comprehend', God predestining folks by remembering two things:
1. When God destroyed the world the first time by water, only Noah and his family were saved. Meaning the rest of the people on earth were killed and presumably ended up in Hell.
Meaning that God in that case saved very few and the rest were condemned.
2. Hell IS the default position. It's what Allie was referencing at 24:24... We are ALL destined for Hell, every single one of us. What God is doing when he saves people or predestines them to be saved is because of his love and mercy and kindness and compassion. He is saving certain people - those He has chosen - from that default position of Hell. He could let everyone on the planet of all time and up in Hell, but he doesn't; over the centuries he has rescued
- saved many - from the default position of Hell.
Oh and lastly I've heard from other very good preachers who have said that it's only really in places like the United States, (and perhaps Canada and Great Britian) that people are so worried about predestination not being fair; apparently most other folks in other parts of the world aren't bothered by the 'fairness - or unfairness issue' of predestination
I hope my way of looking at it might give others another angle to consider it from.
Great vid Allie, Thanks!
You are spot on. So glad to hear from folks who actually believe what the Bible says and is given the ability to understand it. It is God’s Word. God bless you and stay in your Bible fellow sister in Christ. I believe His Word no matter what it says and the Greek definition of Predestination supports your/our view on this topic. Thank you and God bless
About the sparrow ... there is God’s perfect will and His permissive will. Just something to learn about. Thank you for sharing.
Consider the below comment on this heated debate that has plagued Christianity since Calvin and Arminius.
"So, in the Calvinism vs. Arminianism debate, who is correct? It is interesting to note that in the diversity of the body of Christ, there are all sorts of mixtures of Calvinism and Arminianism. There are five-point Calvinists and five-point Arminians and at the same time three-point Calvinists and two-point Arminians. Many believers arrive at some sort of mixture of the two views. However, both systems fail in that they attempt to explain the unexplainable. Human beings are incapable of fully grasping a concept such as this. Yes, God is absolutely sovereign and knows all. Yes, human beings are called to make a genuine decision to place faith in Christ unto salvation. These two facts seem contradictory to us, but in the mind of God they make perfect sense."
I've struggled for many years to reconcile the folks who add: to scripture, "God looked down the corridor of time and saw who would choose him."
I've heard this statement but nowhere does God tell us HOW election works. I leave it to God who very plainly tells us, "My thoughts are not your thoughts, neither your ways my ways." Isaiah 55:8
TL;DR: I think you take things out of context, but still really appreciate you.
EDIT: Wow, there are a lot of Calvinists here! Honestly, I've never even met someone who professed Calvinism, so this is new for me. I do appreciate what people are taking the time to write. "As iron sharpens iron, so one person sharpens another." (Prov.27:17)
So, I'm looking at one of your favorite examples: Pharaoh. Pharaoh's heart was already hardened before God hardened it (Exodus 8:15, 19, 32 & 9:7). It makes sense that it would already be hard: he watched brutal slavery practices and saw himself as a "god" his whole life before Moses came. IDK, Allie, I like a lot of what you say, and you say not to cherry-pick, but whenever you talk predestination, you cite one verse at a time, maybe because you bounce around too quickly for me(?).
I look right to the source; right to Jesus. I look at John 3 in which Jesus clearly lays out the salvation plan: that God sent him to save the *world,* But, we must choose to believe in him.
Maybe, you just go to quickly. I have questions and objections, but you move on. I guess it's the nature of a one-woman-show. I'd like to see a conversation between a Calvinist and a non-Calvinist. Slow down, really look at the whole thing.
All this to say, I'm not convinced, but I'm glad you shared and I still appreciate your other views, such as how a Christian should live and act in the world. :)
Eugene S Smith cite your manuscript(MS) history to backup your assertion. Citing anonymous liberal textual critical scholars does nothing.
Do you want God, as He describes Himself in His Word, to be real? Your answer will tell me all one needs to know about your presuppositions.
I would seriously recommend Dr James R White’s teachings on this subject.
Read Romans. It's biblical
e batdorf, there are plenty of discussions and debates on this subject. One very telling one is between Dr. James White and Dr. Leighton Flowers going over Romans 9. Dr. White wanted both of them to go verse by verse in Romans 9 to show the interpretation. White did so, but Flowers went off on another direction and didn't do so.
No offense, the claim that Allie cherry picked is unfair because she quickly cited verses. She even said at the end that there are other places you can go to dig into the subject. And I think she did a decent job of presenting objections and answering them. I don't think Allie went into this too quickly as if she didn't study this subject because she took almost 30 minutes to explain as much as she could.
But I want to correct you on something quickly; Pharaoh's heart was hardened because God did it first; God is self-existent and anything in His sovereign plan starts with Him. In Exodus 4:11, God tells Moses he would harden Pharaoh's heart before Moses ever encounters Pharaoh. After that, God says He will harden Pharaoh again in Exodus 7:3. Then in Exodus 7:22, after the first plague, it says Pharaoh's heart was hardened (not at all that Pharaoh did it, just that it was hardened). In Exodus 8:15 is the first time it says Pharaoh hardened his heart. Then in Exodus 8:19, it says Pharaoh's heart was hardened. Then in 8:32, it again says Pharaoh hardened his heart. Exodus 9:7 then says the heart of Pharaoh's heart was hardened. In Exodus 9:12, it says the Lord hardened Pharaoh's heart. In 9:35, it says Pharaoh's heart was hardened. In Exodus 10:1, it says God hardened Pharaoh's heart. In Exodus 10:20, it again says the Lord hardened Pharaoh's heart. It says again in Exodus 10:27 that the Lord hardened Pharaoh's heart. Again, in Exodus 11:10 it says the Lord hardened Pharaoh's heart. In the twelve verses cited, it only says Pharaoh hardened his own heart twice, that Pharaoh's heart was hardened four times (not indicating that Pharaoh did it, just that it was), and the other six times it says God did it. And God told Moses He would do it first.
As for John 3:16, it does say world. But what is the definition of world here? And what type of love are we talking about? Is the love for unbelievers as the same as for believers? Not at all or Romans 8:35-39 would apply to unbelievers that never trusted in Christ, but the context of those verses clearly shows that is not true because it applies to those in Christ. These are just some of the verses and things to consider.
@Eugene S Smith fyi, Jesus said Moses was real. And He would know.
what does GOD say about "free will?"
(Isa 63:17 BSB) Why, O LORD, do You make us stray from Your ways and harden our hearts from fearing You? Return, for the sake of Your servants, the tribes of Your heritage.
(Psa 105:24-25 HCSB) The LORD made His people very fruitful; He made them more numerous than their foes,
(25) whose hearts He turned to hate His people and to deal deceptively with His servants.
(2Ki 19:6-7 NASB) Isaiah said to them, "Thus you shall say to your master, 'Thus says the LORD, "Do not be afraid because of the words that you have heard, with which the servants of the king of Assyria have blasphemed Me.
(7) "Behold, I will put a spirit in him so that he will hear a rumor and return to his own land. And I will make him fall by the sword in his own land."'"
(Pro 19:21 CSB) Many plans are in a person’s heart, but the LORD’s decree will prevail.
(Isa 14:24 BSB) The LORD of Hosts has sworn: “As I have planned, so will it be; as I have purposed, so will it stand.
(Isa 14:27 NHEB16) For the LORD of hosts has planned, and who can stop it? His hand is stretched out, and who can turn it back?"
(Isa 41:4 GNB) Who was it that made this happen? Who has determined the course of history? I, the LORD, was there at the beginning, and I, the LORD, will be there at the end.
(Deu 32:39 KJV) See now that I, even I, am HE, and there is no god with ME: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of MY hand.
(Deu 32:39 Complete Apostles' Bible - LXX) Behold I, even I, am He, and there is no God beside Me: I kill, and I will make to live: I will smite, and I will heal; and there is none who shall deliver out of My hands.
(Job 42:2 BSB) “I know that You can do all things and that no plan of Yours can be thwarted.
(Exo 9:16 NAS77) "But, indeed, for this cause I have allowed you to remain, in order to show you My power, and in order to proclaim My name through all the earth.
(Pro 20:24 Complete Apostles' Bible - LXX) A man's steps are directed by the Lord: how then can a mortal understand His ways?
(Pro 16:1 NHEB16) The plans of the heart belong to man, but the answer of the tongue is from the LORD.
(Exo 4:11 NLT) Then the LORD asked Moses, “Who makes a person’s mouth? Who decides whether people speak or do not speak, hear or do not hear, see or do not see? Is it not I, the LORD?
(Pro 16:4 BSB) The LORD has made everything for His purpose- even the wicked for the day of disaster.
(Psa 135:6 CSB) The LORD does whatever HE pleases in heaven and on earth, in the seas and all the depths.
(Jer 10:23 ESV) I know, O LORD, that the way of man is not in himself, that it is not in man who walks to direct his steps.
(Psa 115:3 NAS77) But our GOD is in the heavens; HE does whatever HE pleases.
(Pro 16:9 EVID) A man’s heart devises his way: but the LORD directs his steps.
(1Ki 22:19-23 HCSB) Then Micaiah said, "Therefore, hear the word of the LORD: I saw the LORD sitting on HIS throne, and the whole heavenly host was standing by HIM at HIS right hand and at HIS left hand.
(20) And the LORD said, 'Who will entice Ahab to march up and fall at Ramoth-gilead?' So one was saying this and another was saying that.
(21) "Then a spirit came forward, stood before the LORD, and said, 'I will entice him.'
(22) "The LORD asked him, 'How?' "He said, 'I will go and become a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.' "Then HE said, 'You will certainly entice him and prevail. Go and do that.'
(23) "You see, the LORD has put a lying spirit into the mouth of all these prophets of yours, and the LORD has pronounced disaster against you."
(2Sa 24:1 ESV) Again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and HE incited David against them, saying, “Go, number Israel and Judah.”
(1Ch 21:1 ESV) Then Satan stood against Israel and incited David to number Israel.
(1Ch 21:7 ESV) But GOD was displeased with this thing, and HE struck Israel.
(Job 34:10 NLT) “Listen to me, you who have understanding. Everyone knows that GOD doesn’t sin! The Almighty can do no wrong.
(Job 36:22-23 NASB) "Behold, GOD is exalted in HIS power; Who is a teacher like HIM?
(23) "Who has appointed HIM HIS way, And who has said, 'YOU have done wrong'?
(Job 40:8 ESV) Will you even put ME in the wrong? Will you condemn ME that you may be in the right?
(Lam 3:37-38 CEV) No one can do anything without the Lord's approval. (38) Good and bad each happen at the command of God Most High.
(Lam 3:37-38 ERV) No one can say something and make it happen, unless the Lord orders it. (38) God Most High commands both good and bad things to happen.
(1Sa 2:6-7 HCSB) The LORD brings death and gives life; He sends some to Sheol, and He raises others up.
(7) The LORD brings poverty and gives wealth; He humbles and He exalts.
Great job Allie, truth speaks volumes.... I respect your audacity. So admirable
The biggest take ever is, no one becomes a calvanist by reading God's word themselves but more taught to see Calvinism in the text
This is what would happen if the choice were ours:
Romans 3:10-12 LSB
[10] as it is written, “There is none righteous, not even one; [11] There is none who understands, There is none who seeks for God; [12] All have turned aside, together they have become worthless; There is none who does good, There is not even one.”
Everyone would face eternal punishment.
Predestination is "fair", because All men are guilty and fall short of the glory of God. The wages of sin is death. BUT, God in His mercy and out of His good pleasure has predestined some to eternal life as co-heirs with His Son.
It only seems unfair and cruel on the part of God when we deny our sinful state by thinking we are entitled to God's forgiveness.
Good job Allie!
The difficulty if free will and God's sovereignty is a hard question for many. Glad you focused on God rather than feelings.
The WCF (Westminster confession of faith) does a good job of explaining the two.
its both and its paradoxical but when you have an all knowing God who lives outside space and time, he knows all outcomes and possibilities, he knows our lives and our choices even before he created earth and his still chose too.
He can do whatever he wants but we still choose as well
It doesn't do a "good" job explaining. It refers to a mystery rather than offering Biblical continuity or clarity. It does make clear statements to keep people in orthodoxy rather than falling into heresy by following the system to its logical conclusions.
All things decreed by God... (All would mean all, even sin)... But then the WCF offers the disclaimer, God did not author sin... That EXPLAINS nothing. It just makes contradictory statements and lands on an orthodox belief as final.
Interesting how Calvinists always go back to their confessions and systematic theology books for support. Allie uses a definition of election from Wayne Grudem and not the Bible. My pastor did the same thing. I love Allie and everything her channel is about but this understanding is not biblical. I’m so sorry. Please check out Soteriology 101 channel with Leighton Flowers if any of you are confused by this. Calvinism is doctrines of man read into the Bible. Not exegeted out. But they hide behind exegesis and sola scriptura sayings. But again; I love Allie. Not trying to spread any hate here. Please do more study on this topic.
Interesting... I’ve been led to a lot of Calvinist pastors and teachings and I haven’t made a decision on whether I believe in predestination or not but this has me thinking and I know in time God will allow me to see His truth so I can make my our decision. Thank you for this video
If I can offer advice, I would say read and understand Scripture as literal as possible. Allegorizing Scripture is very dangerous. I’m not a Calvanist, but I think they interpret Scripture better than the Armeniast do. But Scripture is way too clear on this topic. Important to note that man is completely responsible for his or her unbelief. Kinda hard to completely understand but true none the less. God bless you.
God bless.
Calvinism is not a good take on predestination, and the Bible in general
Check out Dr Jordan Cooper's take on it, on Just and Sinner podcast.
Hello Allie! Any chance you can arrange a debate between Dr. James White and Leighton Flowers on your show about this topic?
I am sure there would be tons of your brothers and sisters who would love to see that happening on your show.
Give Mike Winger a watch. He explores the scripture much more deeply and comes to a different conclusion.
Mike is the man!
Winger and Flowers can't handle the biblical teaching of God's predestination, choosing, and election. They can't handle sovereign grace.
@@philipmurray9796 or maybe they come to an ever so slightly different, but also reasonable and sober interpretation of God's word.
@@amrosh791 why not just agree with Paul and Jesus?
@@philipmurray9796 lol man. Come on. Be real. There is legitimate and reasonable understanding of Paul and Jesus' teaching to be not "tulip"
God is sovereign and knows all. Because of that we have a limited free will. He knows what I will choose because He is God and outside of time, but it is His will that ALL be saved so we are to spread the good news. Verses like Ezekiel 3:18-19 lead me to believe that we choose to accept the gift of salvation. He sends no one to Hell. They choose it themselves by rejecting the free gift of salvation. In His sovereignty He allows us to be wrong sometimes, just as a parent allows their child to make poor choices that breaks their heart. He doesn't want anyone to go to Hell, but He allows people to choose to live in sin without repentence and it breaks His heart. That's limited free will. He allows all things and will give every opportunity for people to choose life...to choose to follow Jesus. God is big. His ways are not our ways. We often like to try to put Him in frameworks that make most sense to our finite minds. I don't think it is an either/or, but a both/and. God is sovereign and we have a limites free will to accept Him or to choose death..."I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse. Therefore choose life, that you and your offspring may live..." Deut. 30:19. This verse in the Old Testament, but oh so relevant today, also leads me to believe that God in His power, sovereignty and wisdom has put us in position with the faculty to choose life or death.
GerDonna Ellis does God fail to save any that He redeemed? And while we are commanded to repent and obey the Gospel, show me a Bible verse that teaches we creatures have autonomous free will. Or put another way and paraphrasing Nebuchadnezzar(Daniel 5:35), who can resist His will?
@@jerramiehelmick7999 Not here to argue. Just as Allie said, God is so big and all wise. I just wanted to share my take on it. The real issue amd most important thing is do you believe that Jesus Christ is Lord and are you living a life submitted to Him. That's the real deal. If you believe you get to heaven because God chose you or because you accepted Christ, the point is did you get there and did you live for Him :)
GerDonna Ellis your comment shows you don’t understand what we Reformed people believe.
@@jerramiehelmick7999 I hear ya, but the real issue isn't reformed vs whatever, it is are you saved and living for Christ. Many churches have split over issues that are menial in the grand scheme. We are at liberty to disagree on such a minor point and still live as brothers and sisters in Christ...just like issues of post tribulation or pre trib. We are merely sprculating based on interpretations of scripture. The real issue is to just be ready whenever Christ returns or calls you home. If it gets into "I'm right, you're wrong" when there is no clear indisputable backing based in scripture, then it falls into the vain argumemt category that we as Believers are not to engage in. If it remains a sharing of ideas to grow and pursue the heart and will of God then it is fruitful. I am completely willing to admit that I don't have God figured out, nor will I ever have Him figured out. I am the created, He is the creator. He is all powerful, all knowing, all wise, and I have a lot of growing, surrendering, and learning to do.
@@gerdonnaellis2441 Amen! Our ways are not God's ways. Let us focus on spreading the Gospel that more shall be saved. Only God knows who will receive the message and be saved. We are called to do our part to live as living sacrifices unto the Lord.
Calvin was wrong. Christ did not die for the sins of the elect. Jesus Christ died on the cross for the entire world and Scripture could not be more clear on this.
the word "world" has many different definitions ie; (Joh 12:19 NASB) So the Pharisees said to one another, "You see that you are not doing any good; look, the world has gone after Him."
Did the "world" go after HIM?
World
(1):
(n.) The inhabitants of the earth; the human race; people in general; the public; mankind.
(2):
(n.) In a more restricted sense, that part of the earth and its concerns which is known to any one, or contemplated by any one; a division of the globe, or of its inhabitants; human affairs as seen from a certain position, or from a given point of view; also, state of existence; scene of life and action; as, the Old World; the New World; the religious world; the Catholic world; the upper world; the future world; the heathen world.
(3):
(n.) The earth and its inhabitants, with their concerns; the sum of human affairs and interests.
(4):
(n.) As an emblem of immensity, a great multitude or quantity; a large number.
(5):
(n.) The earth and its affairs as distinguished from heaven; concerns of this life as distinguished from those of the life to come; the present existence and its interests; hence, secular affairs; engrossment or absorption in the affairs of this life; worldly corruption; the ungodly or wicked part of mankind.
(6):
(n.) Any planet or heavenly body, especially when considered as inhabited, and as the scene of interests analogous with human interests; as, a plurality of worlds.
(7):
(n.) Individual experience of, or concern with, life; course of life; sum of the affairs which affect the individual; as, to begin the world with no property; to lose all, and begin the world anew.
(8):
(n.) The customs, practices, and interests of men; general affairs of life; human society; public affairs and occupations; as, a knowledge of the world.
(9):
(n.) The earth and the surrounding heavens; the creation; the system of created things; existent creation; the universe.
where is scripture clear on this?
what you are implying is universal salvation.
Jesus died for all that will believe and being dead in sin and tresspass one can only believe when God opens their eyes. All God.
Allie Beth, still did not square the circle that Ben Shapiro asked you about. Just talked in circles again.
??
Just read the scriputres that she did, its all there.
Ill admit I got lost here. Do you believe in both? I agree with another comment that God be all knowing doesn’t equal predestination. My second question: when Christ became literal sin on the cross, did he only become sin for the ones He already picked? The premise of predestination makes evangelizing that much harder once the unbeliever finds out that they may have not been chosen. I agree with everything else I’ve listened of yours Allie, but this hurts my heart a bit.
Parable Of The Wedding Feast - (EMTV)
Mat 22:8 Then he said to his servants, 'The wedding indeed is ready, but those who were invited were not worthy.
Mat 22:9 Therefore go into the highways, and as many as you find, invite to the wedding.'
Mat 22:10 "So those servants went out into the highways and gathered together all whom they found, both bad and good. And the wedding hall was filled with guests.
Mat 22:11 But when the king came in to see the guests, he saw a man there not dressed with wedding clothes.
Mat 22:12 So he said to him, 'Friend, how did you come in here not having wedding clothes?' And he was speechless.
Mat 22:13 Then the king said to the servants, 'Tie him up hands and feet, take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'
Mat 22:14 "For many are called, but few are chosen."
Jesus's death was a definite atonement, His death secured salvation for His people. john 10:11; eph 5:25; rev 5:9; mark 10:45; john 11:52.
I used to feel as you do till I realized some things, first we all deserve Hell, the question is why does God save anyone? Mercy is a gift He freely gives the sinner, not for anything we have done or will do, but because He choses to. The unrepentent sinner will not be in hell wondering why. If God is sovereign He must be sovereign in all things or He is not God.
We know there is not universal salvation, so that leaves the question did Jesus die for a guaranted group of people? or did He secure salvation for no one? I believe scripture concludes that Jesus died for His people.
We still.share the gospel with everyone since scripture says too and we do not know who the elect are. All that come to Jesus will find a perfect savior.
All that I know Is that I asked Jesus to save my soul by His sacrifice on Calvary and His resurrection. No one had better tell me that I may still go to hell despite that.
ruclips.net/video/S4OSc16ckIM/видео.html
Allie, with all respect, you just read a few verses on predestination and on people being chosen and then jumped to individual predestination to salvation. Scholars and christians who dont believe in that know of those verses. They dont dismiss them. I recommend you check out their explanation to see who's is better. This is a very one sided viewpoint.
2 Timothy 1:9
He has saved us and called us to a holy life-not because of anything we have done but because of His own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time.
Grace was given to individuals before the beginning of time. The "us" and "we" that are used in this verse are personal pronouns.
I feel, just my take so far, that God does know the beginning and the end, and all inbetween, all at the same time, so, while he does give us free will, because he is "I am", he can and does know of who throughout the course of time, will come to him and repent, and conquer their sins through him. This includes all progression of each individual, so yes, we have free will, but for God, it might seem like pre-destination in our simple minds, but in reality, it's not pre-destination, it's still our own free will journeys, he just simply is aware of how those journeys all pan out, because again, he is the beginning and the end, and it all exists at once for him all at the same time. But it's true that this is a silly thing to focus on, as it does not aid in the progression of a personal relationship with the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
Pre Destination is confirmation that god knows all. He knew the end from the beginning and has prepared the inheritance of all his children.
He's not condemning us to any fate. We all have the opportunities in life to accept his will and keep his commandments, and to repent if we fall short.
We have free will. Pre-destination seems more like we have no autonomy, but that only works if god doesn't know what we will choose and is watching things unfold as we would. He doesn't choose our destination, we do. We reap what we sew.
It bugs me when atheists try and throw pre-destination as proof positive that mankind has no free will according to Christians. Whereas, I think 99.99% of Christians would agree that god isn't cruel, and doesn't program us to follow a path into a particular fate. Otherwise, what's the point of temptation and redemption? They're obsolete if we'll all choose what we're going to choose one way or another and we have no say in the matter.
Under that paradigm, it sounds like God would be just as happy playing a game of pinball as battling for our eternal happiness.
It is God's Sovereign Will that we have free will. Who wants a relationship with a robot? Jesus died to redeem the world
.
Henry Ward Beecher quaintly put it, “The elect are the “whosoever wills” and the non-elect are the “whosoever won'ts”..”
@@nerychristian God is calling out all sinners to repentance. If you're a sinner, He is speaking to you.
- the answer towards the why as to evangelizing : 'faith (comes by) hearing and (hearing by) the word the God'
RUclips hasn't banned you is a BLESSING of IT'S own....
I think we have missed a very important verse here... John 3:17.... Jesus did not come to condemn the world. If He chooses those whom he will merifully give faith but not others, then He is condeming those who He chooses not to give faith to accept Christ.
The most loving thing God did was send His only begotten son to die on the cross for all of His creation, even while knowing not all would receive Him. God has reconciled us to Himself through Christ, and we are all called to be reconciled to God. 2 Corinthians 5:17-21
The 6th Ecumenical Council condemned double predestination.
But by nature, determinism of the elect necessitates that those not elect be damned. You could say the elect have a choice, but idk if you could find the support for that. Determinism is a belief system of extremes. If you want to be consistent, you have to be extreme.
Ward, using the term, "double predestination" is not a biblical, or Calvinistic teaching.
I think the term represents your misunderstanding of biblical predestination. Using the term "double predestination" indicates a denial of man's depravity and that it's not fair if God chooses some, and passes by others.
Amen
Good job, I would only add this- you can have Mercy without Grace but you can not have Grace without Mercy,
Chew on that
The two biggest problems I see in Scripture with everything falling under the God's will umbrella. In Genesis 6 it says that God "felt sorry" He had made man. I would say He knew things would go bad which is why He designated Jesus as Savior from before the beginning. But knowing things would go bad and knowing just exactly HOW bad seem to be at odds. We also see in God's judgment of other nations and Israel too that the way they sacrificed their children and the evils they were committing "didn't even enter His mind to be done."
I like how Alisa Childers answered the problem of suffering and it bears repeating here. God knew all the possible universes and how things might go before He made this one. Everything was established in wisdom. So this world and all its pitfalls, God has decided is the best possible world that can exist under the curse and under the terms He has ordained. We can take comfort in that, that even though this world seems so paradoxical in so many ways, that everything is still going to worked out and redeemed for good.
The way I reconcile choice and election is this way:
Look at it as a play; what you see in front stage are the actors playing out their role. In this case, choosing Christ, etc. But behind the curtains is what drives these players to perform these acts, such coming and believing in Christ.
So, did we come to Christ? Yes!
Did God draw us to his Son? Yes!
A look at it as a novel:
The author plans and writes his novel. The characters in the book are clueless on what is going to happen in the next pages, unlike the author, He knows everything (because He wrote it). Furthermore, the characters will do what the author have decreed/wrote in the novel. Why? Well because it pleased the author.
Complex as it is to our finite minds, never angry because God ordained/decreed whatever. Simply say, "your will be done."
My peanut size brain can only handle a minuscule amount of God's infinite wisdom. Thus, I will just say, "you chose us, and we came to your Son. You equipped us with faith/belief/repentance, and I was able to believe and repent and I thank You for that." At the end His will was done.
Tupac
Total depravity (of man)
Unconditional election
Particular redemption
All powerful grace
Certainty of salvation
@Johan Strydom
no
Give your best joke acronym
We all know the standard five point acronym
Lmao
😂😂🤣🤣😂😂
Yes we have a choice!
So, how do I know if I am chosen or not?
I just noticed you have not received an answer after a whole year. I just listened to the entire video and she has done a great job explaining this.
Here is your answer. Jesus said all who come to me I will never turn away. That means if you have done that and you see that everyday you are seeking him , you don't need to ever ask this question. Why ? Because your assurance comes from His promise to you. That does not mean you wont stumble, it means when you do then you still turn to Him and repent- everyday since we sin everyday.
I hope this helps.
Because God is Sovereign and all knowing, He predestined that the Seed of the woman would bring us Salvation. And God Predestined that those who trust in Him Will be conformed to the Image of His Son, by the working of the Holy Spirit. God also Predestined us to be Righteous and without blame through Faith, and spend Eternity with Him.
However, God also has drawn all men to Himself for purposes of Salvation, for all are without excuse. And we are called to not resist the drawing of the Spirit, do not harden your heart, for the Spirit will not always draw but at some point will give us over to a reprobate mind. God's Sovereignty and Foreknowledge doesn't equate that only some are called and others not. God made us to have a relationship with Him. God shows His Sovereignty and Power by providing Salvation to Redeem us back to Himself to those who respond and repent. But those who don't want a relationship with God, will spend eternity in the judgment that God Predestined for satan and his demons. And because God is Sovereign and all knowing, He knows who will accept or reject Him.
I personally believe that God is all knowing and because of that he knows who will be saved and who won’t be, but he gives us the free will and the opportunity to choose him. I believe that when we choose not to follow God and accept Jesus as our savior, we go to hell. I believe that we are the ones that decide if we go to hell or not. There are verses like John 3:16, Romans 1:15, 1 Peter 3:9, John 6:40 (and probably others) that say that salvation is given to everyone who believes, and that God wants everyone to believe in him and have eternal life. God gives us the opportunity to be saved and to become a child of God and inherit his kingdom. God predestined everyone to be saved, he wants everyone to be saved, but it’s up to us what to do with that invitation. A 21st century analogy that I came up with is that God is sending a friend request to everyone, but they have to choose to accept that friend request or not. It is God moving in our hearts that compels us to choose him and to choose to be saved. Salvation is a choice that God gives to us. He isn’t wishing of anyone to perish but for everyone to have eternal life. It would not be fair for God to only pick a select few to be saved and then send the rest to hell. That is not how it works. We choose to send ourselves to hell by not trusting in Jesus alone.
not fair? do we really want whats fair? if so, heaven will be empty as we sll deserve hell.
Salvation is a gift from God, He gets to choose who He gives it to. He does not send anyone to hell .
He saves some and passes over others. No one will be in hell wondering why.
salvation is all God.
soli deo gloria^
Very good explanation of predestination from the word of God. I agree, the word of God needs to be used to explain questions that arise in the reading of any passage. It does, and there is no contradictions in the bible. What you said in your summary is the answer to the age old question, What is the meaning of life? We are to glorify God!
I'd love to see you sit down and have a conversation with Dr. Leighton Flowers of the Soteriology 101 podcast.
I don't agree. We are chosen as a people to be saved, not as individuals. Believers in Christ are predestined to live with God after we die and those who reject Him are predestined to live without Him after they die. We as individuals have the choice to be a part of God's people or to not to be.
Just like a child being born into an abusive family, they didn't have control over what family they were born into, so you could argue that this child is 'predestined' to be with this family. But it is the child's choice on how they respond to this situation. They can harden their hearts and carry on the abuse onto their own family or they can be different and choose love. (this is just an example, I know it's not that easy)
Here's the situation I based that off of: John 15:16, You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit-fruit that will last-and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you. The disciples didn't have a choice when Jesus asked them to follow him, they were asked whether they wanted to be or not, but they could have walked away at any time. And many followers did. Judas is the first that come to most people's mind. I'm sure there's so much more that I could add on but I would need to research it more in depth, I would love to hear a response!
My approach is different from most. I've noticed those from a reformed perspective spit out a bunch of scripture with no analysis (hence misusing passages like Romans 9) but those of non reformed tend to use little scripture and mostly logic. I think both are flawed. Use Scripture, but make sure you use it correctly, the way it's written. If you're interested, go to my channel and watch my video on the worst arguements for and against reformed theology. A critique for both main sides.
One Outta One Yes. They butcher the orthodox understanding of Romans 9.
"Maybe God isn't omnipotent. Maybe he's just been around so long, he knows everything."
- Phil Connors
"If anything happens outside of His control then He is no longer sovereign..." As you can see, for the Calvinist (and Allie), God is a control freak. He has to be the cause of everything in the universe else He is not God . He therefore is the cause of all sin and evil in the world and was responsible for man to fall in the Garden. He caused sin and death to enter into the world. He is responsible for all people to be evil and to be dead in sin. He is all powerful and can give everybody the grace to be saved but does not love everybody. He prefer to cast those He does not help into eternal fire so that His sovereignity can be glorified... Fortunately the God of Calvin (and of Allie) is not the God of scripture. Thank God...
I'm glad you are objective about this
No Calvinist believes that just because we're predestined that there is no order of salvation or reason to commit to God and be saved if you will. Look up the "Ordo Salutus". Jesus talks about this in John in the parable of the sown seeds. It shows the various circumstances of with the seeds are sown but ultimately only one makes it fruition and that is by the grace of God. Just because we have been predestined doesn't mean that there isn't a moment in our life that we come to our salvation and commit to Christ. That's how we have a testimony and share with others. We don't know who is saved and who is not. That is completely for God to change hearts and lives. It is completely his will.
'According to His purpose' many are predestined to 'be conformed to the image of His Son' (Rom.8:28,29, 9:21,23). What does this mean? It means that there is a remnant that 'shall be saved' (Rom.9:27), which 'receive with meekness the engrafted Word' (Ja.1:21, 4:3) to which He grants grace and salvation (1Pet.1:9,10,13).
We learn this from Jesus (Matt.11:29, 18:3) as He points out those which are justified by grace (Lu.18:14, Tit.3:7, 1Pet.5:5,6, Ps.149:4). Look up these key verses, and think about them, and to whom God gives grace (Is.61:1, Prov.3:34,35) as He wills (Matt.25:33,34, Eccl.10:2, Ps.149:4, Jn.5:21). This truly is Good News, designed for His sheep!
22:54 Most of what you said last few minutes is correct, however the Bible doesn't say God's grace is irresistible, and it would be clumsy of God to be able to ordain our salvation _only_ by exchanging one unfreedom for another.
Also, "divine tension" - it's a tension for our understanding, but not for God.
A distinction must be made between the terms predestination and election. They are not the same and should not be used interchangeably.
Regarding Predestination three questions need to be asked when reading the text.
Who is being predestined?
To What are they being predestined?
How does scripture specifically define that destination?
In Ephesians 1 who are those being described as being predestined? Saints or sinners?
Ephesians 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God,
To the saints who are in Ephesus, and faithful in Christ Jesus
Paul is speaking to saints.
To what were the Saints predestined?
Ephesians 1:5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will.
Predestined Saints to adoption.
What is the adoption?
Romans 8:23 Not only that, but we also who have the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body.
The adoption is the redemption of the body. It is a future event that we are currently waiting, which will happen when Christ returns.
A distinction about adoption needs to be made at this point. There is a spiritual adoption and a physical adoption the bible makes clear.
We are sealed with the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of adoption once we are born again.
Romans 8:15-17 For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.” 16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, then heirs-heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together.
And Ephesians 4:30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
Repentant believers who trust in Jesus Christ life, death, burial, and resurrection are sealed with the Holy Spirit who is the Spirit of adoption. However, the adoption will not be physically manifested until there is the redemption of the body which will happen at the second coming of Christ. It is all by grace through faith and all by the finished work of Christ.
So far there has been no reference to an unsaved person being predestined to hell. But who are those that God foreknew?
Galatians 4:8-9 But then, indeed, when you did not know God, you served those which by nature are not gods. 9 But now after you have known God, or rather are known by God, how is it that you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage?
One does not become known by God until after they are born again. Paul is speaking to born again Christians in Galatians.
Romans 8:29-30 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified
We are known by God once we are born again. In the context of Galatians it begins once a person is born again. It's at the point of the new birth a believer becomes predestined to be heirs with Christ. Notice the past tense in Romans 8:29-30. Are we currently glorified? No. However, in God's foreknowledge once we are born again, we are glorified. He is infinite and omnipresent so to Him, we, born again believers, are already glorified with Jesus Christ, it just hasn't manifested physically and won't until Christ returns.
Again. In the context of Romans 8 and Ephesians 1 predestination is referencing born again believers from the point of repentance/salvation/spirit adoption to the coming of Christ/our physical adoption.
No where in the context of scripture does it reference some people being predestined for heaven and some people being predestined for hell.
That must be your presupposition when reading the text which is eisogesis and not wise to use.
Clear exegesis of scripture shows Adoption, Redemption of the body, conformed to Christ's image, and glorification are all things followers of Jesus Christ are predestined to partake in, Once they are born again and predestined from the point of the new birth till the second coming of Christ.
Very good! Rightly dividing the word.
@@ItsGabieLikeBaby Thank you. God bless you richly.
Allie this was absolutely amazing, kudos to being able to tackle all of this fairly in under half an hour lol thank God for what He's doing through you ✝️💪❤️
I've grown up not believing or living out the idea of predestination, and it's not even on the realm of our church body's mission statement or 7 core values. ("To share, grow, and live the new life of Jesus Christ - one person at a time!") I grew up in a Christian & Missionary Alliance church and am now in a non-denominational church as an adult (mid-20s). Interested to hear your take on it, especially since you did grow up believing in and putting a focus on predestination!
ruclips.net/video/S4OSc16ckIM/видео.html
17:07 Yes, God could stop anything, _and_ do so _any way He choses_
God's omnipotence in face of your choice may be less of His decreeing it, and more of His allowing it. Being able to stop it and chosing not to.
Seems to me you’re a Calvinist, but I respectfully disagree. In Romans 8:29, you’re so focused on “predestined” but you kinda missed what “Foreknew” means. God is all knowing on which we agree, meaning God knew who are His by the choices we make and the reason he predestined believers. Free will is still vital in the premise of foreknowledge of God.
This same word translated "foreknew" in Romans 8:29 is also used in 11:2 regarding God's knowledge of Israel ("God has not rejected His people whom He foreknew), It is used in Acts 26:5 of the knowledge the Jews had of Paul's way of life as a Pharisee, In 1 Peter 1:20 it is used of God's knowledge of Christ ("He was foreknown before the foundation of the world..."), and it is used in 2 Peter 3:17 of the knowledge that believers have regarding false teachers ("You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand,..."). I am sorry, but the Biblical usage of the word Proginosko does not uphold your interpretation as God looking into the future and seeing what would happen. Your interpretation makes God subservient to man.
Rebecca Otis I respectfully disagree. God is never subservient to man. Omniscient God can use man’s bad choices into good use (Joseph sold as slave). God created angels with free will. The reason Satan is. Man would never fallen if your claim is true.
@@pastortedhuelgas9232 Creatures don't and cannot have the same will as their Creator; that was the point Rebecca was trying to get across. The devil's will is not free and autonomous like God's, he's on a tight leash and still needs to ask for permission to do things (See Job and Revelation)
Choice Meat Randy we can’t compare God’s will to His creation. First, His Will is perfect and good. Our will could be either good or bad. Secondly, He’s sovereign and we are not. Our will could be bad, but putting it into action is where, just like Satan has limitations as it depends on God’s sovereignty & permissive will. That being said, our innermost desire (hearts) and will is where God looks at. If God can’t look onto our future decisions and will, he is not God anymore. God is omniscient and omnipresent. He is not subject to time and space that He created. We can’t say what God can and cannot do. But we can say what the Bible has already said.
@@HuelgasTed Did you respond to the wrong person? Seems like you're agreeing with all I said.
The first mistake is equating the Church with Mathew 24 but that's a side note (just a pet peeve).
I believe the incorrect assumption in these debates is a lack of understanding of Heaven and Hell or where we go when we die as opposed to the distinction between Predestination and Free Will.
God is Sovereign and in that sovereignty, He has given us Free Will
Genesis 1:28
28 Then God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”
He gave us His dominion over the earth. He is still all-knowing and He uses that knowledge to allow every person free will to lead humanity ultimately where He wants it to go. That is why Bible prophecy exists. It shows us that through our free will to choose His Sovereign Will is fulfilled.
Yes God knows who will accept Him and who will reject Him, however, I think there is a great lack of understanding as to how people will end up in Hell. The "Elect" doesn't mean saved it means chosen for a purpose.
Romans 9 (the famous debated passage)
10 And not only this, but when Rebecca also had conceived by one man, even by our father Isaac 11 (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls), 12 it was said to her, “The older shall serve the younger.” 13 As it is written, “Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated.”
In the OT yes Israel was God's chosen people but not for salvation, but that they would be used for His purposes.
Romans 9
17 For the Scripture says to the Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth.” 18 Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens.
Did Pharoah die and go to an eternal Hell? No.
Are we chosen to be the Church? Yes. Not to replace Israel but to be the Gentile chosen people alongside the Jews for the purpose to bring the message of God to the rest of the world. Does that mean we're the only ones in Heaven? No.
We are chosen for a specific purpose but we are not the only ones chosen.
The problem I have with Allie's video is the conclusion.
Guess the number of occupants in eternal Hell right now? IT'S ZERO!!.
When you understand what Jesus did the 3 days while He was in the tomb and have a clear understanding of Eschatology then it'll be clear. The first ones to ever be sent to the Lake of Fire or eternal Hell is the beast and the false Prophet (Revelation 19:19-20) and then Satan. Then comes the Great White Throne Judgment Rev 20, When you understand these aspects you'll understand that Yes there will be those who in full knowledge of God will reject Him, however, the grace of God will have given them every opportunity to choose Him and they still reject Him making it more than fair and deserving of Praise.
It's not necessarily the doctrinal understanding ie predestination, it's the conclusion and lack of understanding of salvation in its entirety that I have an issue.
Currently what was accepted as the biblical doctrine that Jesus after His death went to Hades, has now been questioned out of context. The thief that went to Paradise with Jesus wasn't to Heaven it was to Abraham's Bosom Luke 16.
Ephesians 4
7 But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ’s gift. 8 Therefore He says: “When He ascended on high, He led captivity captive, And gave gifts to men.”
9 (Now this, “He ascended”-what does it mean but that He also first descended into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He who descended is also the One who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill all things.)
1 Peter 3
18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, 19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water."
The Apostles Creed
I believe in God the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, And in Jesus Christ his only Son our Lord, Who was conceived by the Holy Ghost, Born of the Virgin Mary, Suffered under Pontius Pilate, Was crucified, dead, and buried. He descended into hell; The third day He rose again from the dead; He ascended into heaven, And sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty;
We use hell when we should use Hades.
Hippolytus (born 170 AD-died 235 AD) a disciple of Irenaeus who was a disciple of Polycarp who was a direct disciple of the Apostle John wrote "He (Jesus) showed all power given by the Father to the Son. Who is ordained LORD of things in heaven, and things on earth and things under the earth, and Judge of all: Of things in heaven, because He was born, the Word of God, before the ages; and of things on earth, because He became man in the midst of men to re-create our Adam through Himself; and of things under the earth, because He was also reckoned among the dead, preaching the Gospel to the souls of the saints and by death overcoming death."
Between this writing and 1 Peter 3:19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah,..."
I think that Jesus was in Hades (Luke 16) and preached to all who had died not just the saints in Abrham's Bosom but those in the place of torment so that they could receive salvation and be set free.
To me, the issue is not whether both views are correct (Pre-destination or Free-will) but it's the conclusion of when and how people end up in eternal Hell. When we get locked into a narrow understanding of God's plan which is in Scripture in full, and we only see it through our eyes instead of His, we're going to get into a lot of doctrinal problems. Hope this helps.
God knows who He will draw to Himself; we do not. “Go ye therefore and make disciples...”😎
I believe in predestination because it’s clearly written in Scripture. What you said is completely correct and Biblical. God bless stay in His Word.
so should it turn out you're not of the "elect" - will you still accept God's sovereign will & plan he set for you (because even your eternal destruction will have one purpose: to glorify him) or will you instead rebel against him?
@@leegray6165 so should it turn out you're not of the "elect" - will you still accept God's sovereign will & plan he set for you (because even your eternal destruction will have one purpose: to glorify him) or will you instead rebel against him?
@@blackfalkon4189 I believe in Him only because He allows it to be so, Scripture is crystal clear on that fact, so I must be elected. Scripture is also crystal clear that eternal salvation is promised by Him, so I don’t ever go where you hypothetically suggest I go. His will be done, not mine, not yours, His. It’s a tough thing to understand but the facts remain that He is in complete control and I find peace and humility in all of it. God bless.
@@leegray6165 _"I believe in Him only because He allows it to be so, Scripture is crystal clear on that fact, so I must be elected"_
ah but the snag is, how do you know you really believe? for all you know you could simply be deluded into believing only to be in for mucho surprise (Matthew 7:21) _and_ this delusion could also be predetermined as part of God's plan for you
so in the end you may claim to somehow know God's hidden will & ultimate plan for you (despite agreeing with what the OPsaid, but nvm) but what makes you think you really believe, and not just believe you believe?
_"His will be done"_
exactly and 1 Timothy 2:4 also states his will
but tell me, since your statement is most interesting - how often do you say the Lord's prayer? ("our father who art in heaven hallowed be thy name") : often? rarely? never?
_"It’s a tough thing to understand"_
au contraire frenchman Calvin's (and his bosch predecessor Luther's) doctrine is the easiest to understand because determinism's what reductionist atheists have been arguing all along (like Stephen Hawking himself) they'd make great calvinists too :|
and assuming the atheists & calvinists are right, the only question of course as I said is, what makes you think you won that draw & got a winning ticket? that is all
14:30 *And he said: Therefore did I say to you, that no man can come to me, unless it be given him by my Father.*
[John 6:66]
Note, it says of "unless it be given him by my Father" not of "comes" but of "can come" ...
14:37 It is not an automatic result.
This was a great summery thank you.
The sovereignty of God has been mightily misunderstood and misused by many in and out of the church. Yes He IS sovereign, BUT He gave mankind dominion over the earth, He gave us the choice, OUR choices invite the devil to kill steal and destroy, if my loved one gets tragically killed, and someone says it must have been God’s will, they gonna hear a word from me. The Father is a GOOD father, he does not make people sick, poor, YES he is aware of everything, does NOT mean it was his will for horrible things to happen…but IN that he can work with us and draw us to him, and carry us through, that DOES NOT mean he made it happen. What would be the point of Him “blessing” us with illness only to turn around and heal them all as Jesus did. It is HIS will that all should be saved, but clearly that is not the case, for if he executed his will at every turn in the life of humanity, we all WOULD be saved. If someone thinks God gave them sickness or some other tragedy to bring them closer to him, that it was his will, then don’t take any measures in the natural or else you will be going directly against his will if this is your honest opinion of the Father. Jesus said he ONLY said\did what the Father said or did, when did we ever see Jesus make someone sick? NO… He healed them ALL!!! And since God the Father gave US dominion, if he would now go back on that and micromanage our every turn, that would make him a liar and HE CAN NOT LIE. Sovereign = dominant power or supreme authority, yes that’s GOD, it’s NOT making everything happen that happens, that’s on us, We cannot blame God for bad things that happen to us or others, this is a fallen world, and the issue of sin is the cause of all the terrible things happening all around us. I have listened to the best series on the true nature of God, from someone who has spent the last 55 years of his life ( he’s now 74 ) living for the Lord, and has lead tens of thousands to saving Grace and salvation. I know this isn’t the main focus of this video, but when the sovereignty topic came up I just knew it would be the version that paints
God as one who controls us like pieces on a game board. And my final word, God being aware of everything, people, creatures, hairs on our heads, falling leaves, falling birds, does not mean He made that happen. If we put our trust in Jesus, and make him the lord of our life, and turning from sin in gratitude for his amazing grace( not to earn his favour, we can never do that, that’s why Jesus had to put on our robes of filth, and give us his robes of righteousness) he makes us accepted in the beloved, and that’s all I need to know. He is a Good, loving father, yes he is Just & Holy, but he is good and loving, and I’m so blessed and grateful to belong in his family.
How does 2 Peter 3:9 fit into this? It says "...it's not God's will that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. "
None would come to repentance of their own free will, that's why He had to predestine the worst of us to repentance.
Romans 3:10-12 LSB
[10] as it is written, “There is none righteous, not even one; [11] There is none who understands, There is none who seeks for God; [12] All have turned aside, together they have become worthless; There is none who does good, There is not even one.”
I believe in this, but because of the parable in mathew 18:21-35 I also believe it can be taken away from any of us, but I do believe that the way we get into the faith in the first place is only through the love and grace of God through Jesus Christ.
What taken away? Your salvation?
Okay but where does the Holy Spirit come in? Why do we follow the prompts of the Holy Spirit if we have no choice what we do. I’ve definitely been prompted and ignored it.
In the end I still don't agree with predestination and Calvinism but I cant agree with you on what's really important, sharing the gospel.
23:35 _and_ this means the ordained means contain, _not just_ evangelising, _but also_ the prayers of the saints.
Example. Jacob was predestined. However, his predestination would not have come to pass except for the prayers of ... looking up ... Isaac. Because Isaac prayed for his wife to conceive. And Jacob arguably grew in grace because of the prayers of his mother Rebecca, who loved him over Esau.
So, Genesis 25 is a Classic Catholic proofpassage of prayers of the saints contributing to predestination, not as its cause, but as means to its end.
Thank you for this. I needed more clarification
19:41 "Like hardening pharao's heart" - I think I recall Jonathan Sarfati using this to argue Calvinism.
But let's recall, the same pharao hardened his heart himself first, so God's harding His heart was not bereaving him of real choice, but just finalising the choice He had already allowed him to make.
3:05 Molina says God has sth like "scientia media"
A) God certainly has the knowledge of all possibilities;
B) God also has the knowledge of all things He ultimately decrees;
B U T
C) God also has an omniscient knowledge of all conditionals.
I e, God eternally knows what so and so _will_ do _if_ He gives him sanctifying grace, and what He won't do in such a case - and therefore God makes His decree on account of this.
I believed that he chose the way (through Faith in Jesus Christ)…and by choosing the way he chose the who? Who? - All who call upon the name of the Lord. It is a hard topic to explain. I do believe that he gave all men a measure of faith and we do choose where we place the faith. He does know our choice.
In his sovereignty God gave us free will
The truth is this . God has declared the beginning from the end. So in a moment of time ,God saw all , and knew all that would receive Him , and those who would not. Now we all are going throughout God measure of time. I suppose the truth is no one can with stand God. The Spirit does the work , we can take credit for nothing. Just thank God and praise God that it is you that He has called out of darkness , into His light.
But if we are just tools God uses us without our knowledge, don't we have the glory? Aren't we just an extension of God? All our actions are God's actions, so God's glory is our Glory?
15:03 One cannot deny freewill because God is all knowing.
I know you made this video, that doesn't mean I determined you should make it.
God eternally knew in advance you would make it. _Also_ doesn't mean He determined it beyond your having any choice.
15:43 God offering you a real choice doesn't mean God abandons being sovereign - it means He uses His sovereignty in a very fine tuned manner.
Allie read Roman about 10 times back to back because you are not understanding Romans. I know this is an old video I hope you have better understanding.
Ephesians 1
Romans 8
John 6
may i ask what you put those verses for ?
@@skafan89
those are chapters relevant to a subject such as this "Predestination: Do we have a choice?"
Entire narrative of Bible from Genesis to Revelation. The Bible doesn’t stop at three chapters.
@@bucsfan2565 - "Predestined: we have a choice, and we always choose what He decrees"
@@timffoster "I believe in free will. You have the free will to do what God forces you to do".
Allie, this is all well and good for Christians who Know for sure of their salvation and have had a progressive growth in Christ. (I feel so alone in admitting this), my salvation experience and growth? have not been at all the way it should be. My selfishness and stubborn will have been my way of life with God many times showing me what My way has caused. The saying ‘………changed when she hit rock bottom’. My problem is I never hit bottom. From the time I wake up til I sleep, going to hell is on my mind even tho from the outside I look normal. People have no idea what’s going on within. From childhood, I’ve always felt different from my church/Christian friends. Does this probably mean in God’s sovereign will, He has destined me for hell? I wish I could have not been like this. My thoughts are so bad. I pray for Jesus to take control but He doesn’t. Other Christians get some kind of help at some point but I do not. That has to mean I’m not saved.
Calvinist theologian James White, in a debate with Hank Hannegraaf and George Bryson, was asked, “When a child is raped, is God responsible and did He decree that rape?” To which Mr. White replied… “Yes, because if not then it’s meaningless and purposeless and though God knew it was going to happen he created it without a purpose… and God is responsible for the creation of despair… If He didn‟t [decree child rape] then that rape is an element of meaningless evil that has no purpose.”[11]
If you pray that God would heal a sick person, rather than pray that God would make it possible for them to be healed - you may be more Calvinist than you know
For those of you that have a problem with Calvinism, I suggest you look up Adrian Rogers. He uses the same Bible verses, but with a totally different interpretation. God did not create some people to send them to hell. He sent Jesus to save those who ask in his name. As an omniscient God, he knows what your choice will be, but he will not intervene.
The Bible talks so much of our inability to do what God requires, even to believe in faith. So much for our "free will"! Our will is enslaved and our choices are limited by our sinful nature. Just as a fish cannot fly or a bat cannot do geometry, sinners cannot repent, though we are called to do so, and it is through the preaching of the gospel that the Holy Spirit might bring conviction of sin and replace the heart of stone with a heart of flesh that is broken by their sin and wants to stop rebelling and start pleasing God. But It must come from outside the sinner.
John 6 is extraordinarily clear from our Lord's own words. He says all that the Father gives me will come to me... Noone can come to me, no one is able, unless the father who sent me draws him. This is God's will: that Jesus won't lose any that God has given to Jesus.
Isn't that comforting as a child of God prone to the drifts of human emotions that our renewed spirit didn't originate from within us and we cannot undo that transformation - it is the mission of our Lord to keep us grafted into himself.
I also loved 1 Corin 2, go and read the whole train of thought, but Paul specifically says: the natural person does not accept the things of the spirit of God, indeed he cannot.
So good! Well done, sister!
I do not believe God decides who will and who will not believe in Jesus. I believe predestination in scripture is talking about the rewards His children will receive.
If God picked certain people for heaven, then Jesus did not die for the whole world and there is no reason to spread the gospel, which is absolute heresy.
Elect, always refers to service. Elect NEVER refers to salvation.
Who is drawn unto Him? EVERYONE
King James Bible John 12:32
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
I cannot stand calvinist cult. I would say believe in simple truths and we don’t have to complicate things. there is two ways, either Christ’s way or Devil’s way.Period.
If you CHOOSE to believe in Christ then you are saved. Simple.
We are NOT predestined to go to hell. God doesn’t choose people to go to hell.
On the other hand. Let God be God!!! He is just and merciful and He has choices too but that doesn’t contradict with His ways and rules.