Atmospheric Sounds Using a Violin Bow on Cymbals Placed Upside Down On Timpani~Steve Barber.wmv
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- Опубликовано: 6 фев 2010
- I'm using a 22" Medium 2002 Paiste crash and a 22" 2002 Paiste China Type, and the cymbal is being used on a 28" symphonic timpani. The sound is produced by using the pitch pedal on the timpani to raise & lower the pitch of the timpani head after bowing the cymbal. The same method is used during playing the upside down cymbal with timpani beaters.
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The sound of the bow running on the cymbal is eerily close to the sound of the old nuclear/tornado sirens in the Chicago area. :D and exactly what I need!
Never thought I would find the eerily relaxing music in a video posted years ago.
I could definitely use this in my music. So much ambience
You basically just made the overused reality TV sound effect
amazing atmosphere...mysterious and a bit unnerving...perfect!
I know that I'm super late to the party, but I literally just discovered this because of a comment on a Kitchen Nightmares video! Maybe I'm a weirdo, but I found this super relaxing! Love it!
Wow! Thank you **SO** much for watching, for the very nice comment and compliment. I don't think you're a "weirdo" at all for feeling that this is relaxing, and you're never "late" to the party". I am amazed at how many people are still joining in on the party 6, going on 7 years after I posted this video. Welcome! Thanks again!
I do too! this is awesome!! I learned about this sound in a music piece we're playing in band!
I would like to say it again. One of the best ideas I've ever seen :-) This is insane!
Hazal Elif Yalvac Hi Hazal, many thanks for watching, and also for your very kind comment. It shocked me when I first learned about it while reading an interview by Carl Palmer in a 1974 edition of "Drums and Percussion" magazine. Thanks so much for watching and your very much appreciated comment.
Thank you so much for posting! A big help for understanding the technique!
Thank you for such a very nice comment and you are very welcome! I am very glad I was able to help in some way.
Thanks so much. I'm glad you like it!
So beautiful.
it sounds unique! a great thing to do in the studio, thanks for sharing! very educational
This is awesome man!
Wow, that bow is eerie sounding! The tympanis make a great resonating chamber. Very cool Steve!
oh man!!!! this is totally rad! i've never heard this before, this is simple magic...
That was awesome...
Thanks very much, Nicholas. I wish I could take credit for this, but I first heard about this through Carl Palmer of Emerson, Lake and Palmer, who learned it from percussionist James Blades. Carl featured it on the Brain Salad Surgery album, in Karn Evil 9 2nd Impression.
This is Sick!!
Thanks a lot!
Hi, thanks so much. Absolutely, you can use a floor tom--or any tom--as long as it is level. You can bow cymbals on cymbal stands, but they should be held tightly in the bell. You don't want the cymbal to move freely, and please make sure that the bow is well rosined and the hairs are tensioned. When I used it on the floor tom, I pushed into the enter of the cymbal while bowing, and then continue pressing up and down while the cymbal resonates. It produces nearly the same sound. Thanks so much!
So cool
that is absolutly amazing!!!
ive seen people use violin bows on electric guitars but this is amazing...
Did u go to the radio lab show in november?
yes
Karl Kabeiseman Hi Karl, I thought so too, when I discovered that Carl Palmer did this on cymbals!
Great for making sound effects
Yes it sure is. It's unbelievable the things one can do with a violin or double bass bow using musical instruments, or even simple things you might have in your home!
Very helpful! Thanks!
Thank you, Raymond!
Ho Pepe7drum! I know just how you feel upon hearing this for the first time! I learned about it being done for the first time in my life in a tune called Karn Evil 9 2nd Impression, by Emerson, Lake and Palmer. I found out how it was done by reading an interview by Carl Palmer in "Drums and Percussion" 1974 magazine. I had to rush out and get myself a bow, and I did it on my floor toms by pushing in the bell after I bowed the cymbal. It works GREAT! Timps are great too! Thanks so much!!!!
thats very cool
Thank you very much endeed! for you post.
Great Carl Palmer its great endeed
0:07 - 0:50 was just what I needed! Thank you!
Thanks.
Wild !
thats so wild!
okay, thanks man! will try this, just this kind of atmosphere would sound great in my music. keep going!
I'm doing the second technique at the beginning of 'Michigan morn' in my orchestra. The said it creates a 'twilight' sort of feeling.
*conductor
*Gordon Ramsaying intensifies*
You're welcome!
Hi, Thanks very much. The cymbal at 1:44 is a Paiste 2002 "China Type", and what you are seeing "under the cymbal" is the bell of the cymbal. The bell rests against the timpani head. Paiste 2002 China Type cymbals all have the squarish cylindrical type bell. Thanks, again.
Hi,
I learned about this through a piece by Emerson, Lake and Palmer titled Karn Evil 9 2nd Impression, from the album "Brain Salad Surgery". Carl Palmer does this within the piece. He learned about it through his teacher James Blades,in the early 70's. Blades was a master at creating atmospheric sounds with percussion. Carl also featured it, very briefly, in his "Concerto for Percussion" available on his anthology CD "Do You Wanna Play?" . I hope this helps. Thanks for your interest.
the sound of transporter effect from Star Trek
Muito feliz em poder ver esses vídeos que dificilmente chegarão ao 🇧🇷 e mais feliz ainda é poder ler sua história e saber que a Paiste te deu um prato com a especificação parecida com a do Carl. Estou tentando achar o vídeo de um rapaz que usou gongos artificiais em uma apresentação ao ar livre.
Thanks for watching and thanks for your comment, thefnbled!
Beautiful, thank you for this video!
Do you know how much would it be possible to influence the pitch of the bowed cymbal on the timpani? I am hoping to get a high E(5 or 6) - will it be helpful if the Timpani is tuned to E as well to highlight that fundamental? I believe the smaller the cymbal the more defined the pitch is, but with this technique, perhaps it is possible to achieve that effect as well with larger cymbals?
Thank you!
Hi kontekruel, Thanks for watching. I've never heard a waterphone. I'll have yo check one out! Thanks so much.
And people, here are your sounds from the sky
Great playing and ideas. I am a composer and am wondering how would you notate the timpani pedal changes? What way would be easiest for a percussionist to understand?
Look up the score Video of George Crumb's "Makrokosmos III", he uses that technique at the end of the first movement
ik you comment this 8 years ago, but check out the opening to John Mackey's "The Frozen Cathedral" (PDF on his website), he does this with crotales but the notation should still work. I also know this is used in Ticheli's "Vesuvius" and Michael Daugherty's "Raise The Roof"
Dude, that shit is bomb! I just heard 1:52, where you hear the fifth and the third together... this almost reminds me of the very first track off Neurosis' 1992 album "Souls At Zero."
+MandrakeSauvignon Thanks a lot, MandrakeSauvignon, for the compliment and comment! I will have to listen to Neurosis' Soulls At Zero!!!! I have since replaced the two timps I was using in this video as well as the 22" Paiste 2002 China. There was too much noise created while using the pedal on the timps in the video, so I purchased some newer ones, same sizes, and I now a have a prototype 24" Paiste 2002 China Type, which Paiste made for me. The difference that two more inches makes is unbelievable, and the 24" is much thicker than the 22". Thanks so much for watching!!!!
Hi. I was using a regular violin bow that I bought at a music store,but then I found out that a bass bow works a little bit better because of the wider amount of horse hair within the bow. I bought one from Amazon for around $30.00, I think. The bass bow is a little easier to control since it is shorter than a violin bow. If you don't want to spend a lot of money, I would just try the violin bow first, and I didn't use anything but the cheapest I could find. I hope this helps in some way.
nice video, love the sound! what do you think, would that work with any other type of drum than timpani (they are pretty damn expensive u know.) can I just try that with loose stand/floor tom?
Was the pitch change on the bowed crash achieved with the foot pedal? There was a whole step change at 0:30. This is a beautiful technique that I look forward to using in a piece I'm working on. Thanks for the video!
Hi Daniel, You're welcome! Yes, the pitch change occurs whilst moving the pedal to stretch the head after the bowing of the cymbal. Even after you have completed the application of the bow across the edge of the cymbal, once you remove the bow and allow the cymbal to "ring", the cymbal is still vibrating and you can move the pedal up and down to create these pitch change effects. You can have a lot of fun doing this. I learned this from Emerson, Lake and Palmer when Carl Palmer recorded himself doing this in a tune called Karn Evil 9 Second Impression, which is a piano interlude, which, in my opinion, this tune alone shows the absolute genius of these three gentlemen. I wish you great success with your project!
The first pitch that you play is F5. Do you notate the sounding pitch on the staff? That seems awful high for timpani.
I heard this was used on Outlast for a lot of the spooky noises.
ZupaTr00pa Really? What is "Outlast"?
+Steve Barber
Horror game ;)
+MrSolcys Oh wow. Did they use the sounds from my video, do you mean? I would love to see/hear what they did with it!!
+Steve Barber I must have missed your earlier reply, my bad. No they didn't use yours but they made their own. It really creates tension in the horror environment. Look for 'Outlast: Composing the Score' on RUclips and it's around the 2:00-2.10 mark where they mention it.
ZupaTr00pa
Darn! I was hoping they used mine so I could hear which parts they matched to whatever the video game is. :) Thanks so much, I will check it out!
Thanks for watching, asilaydyingrules1! I will have to try this and see how it sounds! thanks for the suggestion!
Nice video! How would I go about notating this?
Thanks,
James.
i have everything i need to do this. what room should i do it in for the best effect?
Hi _frostyy, Thanks for your question. I was in no special type room, just a room that was carpeted, bare walls, no type of muffling or insulation of any kind. The room was an average size bedroom. The timp bowls are copper, if yours are fiberglass, you may not get the exact same effect. I wish you great success at doing this!
Can I do this on a live setting without the timpani? or does it help with the creepy ambient effect? If a timpani is needed, can I use a floor tom as a substitute? Very much thanks. :)
+Mark Eurenz Cabusas Hi Mark, yes, you can get a creepy effect bowing a cymbal alone, on a cymbal stand, in a live setting. I first started doing this on a floor tom years and years before I purchased a pair of timpani, so yes a floor tom will work fine, and, while holding the upside down cymbal still by placing three fingers and your thumb in the center of the bell, you can carefully push down on the cymbal--slightly-- to stretch the head so as to get a similar sound as you would using the timp pedal. Just be very careful on the floor tom not to allow the cymbal to touch the drum rim. I hope this helps. Thanks again for watching and commenting.
reminds me how waterphone works :) do you have one?
How do you change the pitch of the different sounds that come from the cymbals???
It is so cool!!!
by the way, may I know what did you put under the cymbal at 1:44?
It sounds interesting!!!!!!
Hey Steve, I was wondering if you could tell about the kind of timps and cymbals you are using? I want to use this within a composition and was wondering if you could tell me a bit more about the technique? Great video and great channel, thank you very much for sharing this.
Kind Regards
Bryce Hope
+Bryce Hope And also, do you use a certain kind of bow?
Hi Bryce! Thank you so much for watching and for your very kind comment and encouragement! I specifically use all Paiste 2002 cymbals, except for one ,which is a 17" Paiste Rude Crash/Ride, which I use as a Heavy Ride, since it's so thick. My timps are vintage Slingerland Supreme, Copper bowls, 25" and 28". They are equipped with the pedal, and I use Remo Timpani heads. The bow is a double bass bow. A violin bow works well, but with the double bass bow, they are shorter and have a wider set of hairs, which takes less effort to produce the sound. Any bow will work, though. The bow I was using in the video was a regular cheapie violin bow. I think I paid $20 or $30.00 for it. One last thing. the 17" Paiste I mentioned bows fantastically. I sure hope this helps you, and that you will get a lot of enjoyment trying this. When I first heard about this, which was back in the 70's, I was running around the house picking up things with a thin edge and bowing it! Glass drinking glasses, cowbells, gongs, my Flex-A-Tone (made by the "LP" percussion company) you name it, I tried to get a sound out of it! You will have a blast! Have fun, and thanks ever so much for your comments and questions. Let me know how you work it out. Take care! Best regards,
Steve
I learned a ton just from this comment. Thanks so much for sharing Steve, this already gave me a lot of cool ideas.
what piece(s) is this technique used in? I recently saw the percussion ensemble at my university perform a piece where the timpani did this, but I'm curious as to what other pieces/composers use this technique. it sounds awesome! & I'm also putting it in a piece I'm currently writing.
I just realised you have Timpani in your house. How can you fit them?
Well...very carefully, lol.
That's amazing!! Could you tell me how to write it in parts for players?
Thanks so much. That is something I can't do. You can't predict what sound is going to emanate from the cymbal once you bow it because it isn't controlled. The one and only thing you can do is create a nice glissando with the timpani pedal which you **can** control with your foot.
Steve Barber ok I see, but do you think that I can write in parts something like "put a cymbal in the timpani and play on it"? jaja sorry but i don't know how to write the correct indication.
Hi Again, Juan. I don't see any reason why you couldn't write the words like that in, or something like "Cymbal bowing upside down on timpani whilst using pedal" or words to that effect?
thank you so much!!!, i appreciate a lot your answer. I will use it a lot I think! jaja
It's my pleasure, Juan. I am very pleased to be of any help I can. I am so surprised that so many people enjoy this video. Thanks so much.
Can I use dark cymbals and still achieve a harsh sounding ambience?
Mark Eurenz Cabusas Hi Mark, you most certainly can. Small ones, thin ones--any type of cymbal will work. There are people who also bow marimba's if you can believe that! Thank you so much for watching and commenting.
Would the bow with a tremolo, I wonder...
I want to buy a violin bow for my cymbal playing, but I don't know what kind of bow to buy. How much did the one you are using in this video cost you?
what size is the bow? is it from a violin, viola, cello or double bass?
Hi Timo, Thanks or your question. This particular bow is a well rosined violin bow. I've since switched to using a double bass bow because they're shorter, and wider, making it easier to produce the sounds.
You're welcome. I'm glad I could help, I think : )
Thanks.