New vs Old - Is This An 'Existential' Battle For Car Companies? | The Fully Charged Podcast 196
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- Опубликовано: 13 июл 2024
- This week’s podcast sees Robert joined by Fully Charged’s CEO Dan Caesar to discuss the fascinating and rapid changes taking place in the global automotive industries.
Picking up where his recent blog left off (see link below) and covering all the current dominant, emerging and potentially dying car brands, Dan poses questions like “Are the legacy OEMs already powerless to compete?”, “Is 2023 the start of a new manufacturing race?”, “Will Chinese EVs be coming sooner than we think?” and “How many luxury SUV customers can there really be?” - BMW, Audi, and Mercedes appear to believe there are lots!
We also get lots of updates about who’ll be at this year's Fully Charged LIVE events!
Read Dan’s blog here: fullycharged.show/blog/red-al...
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Yes, internal combustion engines will be like steam engines. We all like to go for a ride on a steam train but we don't want them running through the suburbs as the regular inner city commute.
How do you feel about diesel electric.No pure electric trains around here,but occasionally a steam loco appears.
@@johnmcconville6055 One Step at a time, Trains will be next. I think what @johnsamsungs7570 was talking about is the revolution that happened in the 1930's.
"Firstly the diesel engine has an impressively high thermal efficiency - with modern diesel engines achieving 45% efficiency compared to a steam engines 10% giving them greater distances between refuelling stops.
This combined with the absence of water stops and reduced inspection and repair costs resulted in greatly reduced overall running costs.
In short the switch from Steam to Diesel was a no-brainer for the railway companies, speeded up greatly by the need to cut costs following the economic depression of the 1930’s."
@@christopperharley7472 There was a battery electric train used between Aberdeen and Ballater in the late 50s until the line closed in 1966,so it has been achieved before.However to electric the network north of Edinburgh has so far been rejected as too expensive.
a partial condensing, renewable solid fueled steam car would be on par with electric for pleasantness. a gentle chuffing at high speeds, dead silent when slow. steam trains are usually non-condensing, so bloody noisy, and use filthy fuel, there's some steam train clubs in britain testing renewable coal replacements now.
then there's the efficiency, many people quote bulldoodoo numbers when comparing steam and diesel, in the smallest steam plants, meaning, toys, those numbers are correct, in larger plants steam beats diesel, the reason they quote such miserable numbers is that they are usually 0% condensing, terrible efficency in that case.
correct. The stink when ICE vehicles pass me on my bike, has to stop. Let alone the noise, and what about the Harley Davidson diabolical noise machines. Governments not addressing these issues.
The two I want to see take off this year are Sono Sion and Cannoo. I do hope the politicians I wrote to about Fully Charge Live Show turn up so they can learn some things. One thing I would like them to learn is that hydrogen is not what they have been told. Hydrogen has its place but not what they seem to think.
I bought my ticket to the Sydney show late last year and I am so keen to get to Sydney (also from Brisbane) too. I am looking forward to seeing all of the BEV cars currently available in Oz on display and to look at domestic batteries. I thought you, Robert, made the point well that Australia is on the precipice of this long over due change and it's all quite exciting really. However, I wouldn't be at this point were it not for Fully Charged ... thank you!
Watch Sandy Munro’s recent video where he talks about Tesla’s build costs and their Gross and Net or margins and you can see why they can afford a huge price cut and if they wanted to, drop them again! Demand hasn’t dropped but the reverse!
The prestige German brands used to have the advantage of comfort, tech, speed and silence. The only thing they still have an advantage with is comfort. They desperately need to lower prices now that they’ve lost their previous advantages. So far it looks like they will keep pricing ridiculously high in Aus and lose all their customers.
Also the idea of “luxury” is changing. Is luxury opulent leather or is it intuitive and flawless, fun to use, software?
Is luxury lots of buttons or is it a car that you can use your voice to issue commands for it to change settings?
Is luxury a car that feels great to steer around corners or is it a car that can steer for you around those corners?
Perceptions change.
@@nickmcconnell1291 It was all bullshit and now there is another kind of bullshit to part suckers and their money. 😀
Well, the big issue is that EVs are so damn expensive that companies have been throwing "luxury" features in for free because theres no other way to get people to pay $60k on an average SUV. Also, Tesla blew conventional thinking out of the water when they decided it was just flat out cheaper to give away the luxury features as standard rather than have to merge in different seats etc in the production line. Having all of those different trim levels actually makes "base" cars more expensive to build. Same reason a bunch of manufacturers have stopped offering manual transmissions for base models, because its actually cheaper to just sell everyone the same transmission. The sum result is that many manufacturers no longer really have a "base" model any more. That isnt just problematic for the "luxury" brands, its really problematic for us poor people who cant afford these mid-level vehicles at the new "low" end.
Recently saw an iD4 in Germany is now 4000Euro more expensive than a Tesla 3. I think VW have a problem.
Re: Luxury. These days, that means seamless & reliable OTAU that is only possible via vertically integrating all key (chipped) components, which has a knock on effect of unifying (vs contending) suppliers whose loyalty are paramount to success. The only way to accomplish that is through “greenfield” (viz., bespoke EV) design & manufacturing. The only “major” having done that (since their Day 0) is Tesla, with ALL others trying to extricate themselves from decades old parts bin “savings” dependencies, putting them interminably in arrears.
Meanwhile, Re: Reciprocal Engine “Efficiency.” Per Corey Stubin, Munro pres, ICE loses 60% energy to heat & vibration that, in turn, are the greatest causes of vehicular wear & tear.
Also, Re: EV Make/Break. It all seems to be coming down to “Born Brain Dead” (intentionally to deter EV adoption? Aka, careful what you wish for) VW Penitence CCS vs Tesla’s “Always Up, Everywhere” NACS tech based cars. VW & regulators have, for all practical purposes, unrequitedly handed EV dominance to Tesla, despite unrelenting FUD & anti-Elon character assassination from all their extremely well heeled opponents (chiefly Big Oil & Legacy ICE)! Doing so is allowing Tesla to leverage its efficiency (i.e., margin) advantages , by undercutting already weak competitors & cannibalizing vast proportions of their potential sales. Shades of Henry Ford’s Model T outcomes! Anyone needing a new car in 2023, recession aside, will soon regret not investing their hard earned savings in anything other than Tesla. The public backlash upon the legacy status quo’s are only just beginning to become apparent.
I would love Fully charged, or everything electric to offer a new buyers guide on both second hand electric cars and new ones. Do's and Don'ts on what you want to look for, battery quality, price ranges all sorts.
Just don't get jack to review internal practically, the guy is obsessed with back seats fitting 6'5 men, he needs 🤐
Excellent chat. Thanks. See Sandy Monroes podcast last week to see exactly how tesla was able to drop their prices and still make over 30% profit on each car. Amazing.
Sandy is an amazing engineer. Works out the cost to the last trim clip.
Thanks for finally helping me understand Japan's energy conundrum in the local context. It is a tough nut to crack. It explains their recent push for orbital solar as well, even though there are clear efficiency issues with such a system. But for Japan, it could be worth it.
They were essentially conned by the hydrogen lobbiests who promised a miracle fuel. Japanese OEMs could have developed natural gas powered vehicles at a fraction of the cost and and at a fraction of the running costs for their internal markets and still had R&D money left to develop EVs for export. But they just flat out got conned. Their OEMs entire R&D budgets have been eaten by a fuel that is a complete waste of resources and is expensive to buy and difficult to transport. Its really sad.
Japan used to be an innovative country. “ Oh there are no floating wind turbines “ might have been seen as a business opportunity by a country famous for building large ships and oil rigs. Let alone the entire “ let’s not exploit our geothermal resources because hot springs “ scare campaign.
the largards are going to be in for a shock sometime after 2030 because due to lack of demand the numbers of filling stations will drop off dramatically... at some point they are basically going to be like h2 now where 95% of people will live 100+ miles from a petrol station and im really intrigued to see when we start seeing the number of filling stations drop off
There will be plenty of petrol stations for another 20 years. You've still got muggins buying new ICE cars now and plenty of existing serviceable ICE cars which will last another 15 years.
The manufacturers have got to be careful as people are just going to stop buying ICE cars shortly.
Home plastic to liquid fuel cottage industry coming?
You should cut back on the weed mate. The working poor will continue to drive more and more decrepit petrol and diesel fuelled vehicles well into the future, just like we continued to walk, cycle and take public transport well into the eighties. By then, the mere idea of owning your own car will hopefully have gone the way of the dinosaur, and communities around the world will once again understand the value of a sustainable public transport system, as we’re already drowning in private cars - ICE or EV it matters not.
@@alexwilsonpottery3733 I live in the heart of the Southern US... motorhead central... and gas stations have been slowly disappearing for about a decade now. Every time theres a gas crisis causing shortages, another station disappears. Sure, new ones pop up, but usually not in the same areas because real estate prices have gone through the roof. Anyone sitting on a lot with a gas station is making pennies on the gallon and in this economy, the land is worth WAYY more than the business. I know of a dozen restaurants that were gas stations only 20 years ago in my town alone. And despite having digital screens to accept payment, many are no longer 24 hours because rich people dont want to live near 24 hour gas stations. There are even long stretches of interstate now on the East Coast where I cant get gas. It used to be that EVERY exit had a minimum of two gas stations, one on each side of the highway. That is no longer true. It used to be that gas stations were in every neighborhood, open until all hours of the night, that is also no longer true.
There is absolutely nothing in the so called law of supply and demand that says that high demand has to be met with either convenience or affordable prices. The opposite really usually applies. Which means that the likelihood is very strong that gas stations will completely disappear in some areas, and the ones that remain will have insanely high prices, constantly have lines, and likely have to deal with regular shortages. And that isnt my imagination, that is just already the trend. There is absolutely nothing that says the poor are guaranteed transportation. And in a cutthroat employement market, anyone who cant get to work is out of a job, as simple as that.
@@patreekotime4578, interesting; here in Iowa almost every hamlet has a gas-station…sometimes two, and where I live there are three within a stone’s throw of my house. We all know that gas-station owners/lessees don’t make their money from gas sales, but from pickles, cigarettes and beer - that’s been the case for decades now, and perhaps they’ll stay in business serving the needs of EV drivers for a while. I’d expect to see more restaurants with charging stations, but until relatively reliable cheap used EVs become available, the gas-fuelled car will keep on ticking.
For me, an EV is just another car, probably being driven by an inattentive doofus like most of the others…plus ca change, eh?
So looking forward to the Sydney show, will be amazing to see what is there and well worth a trip from Brisbane to see. Also seeing Atto 3's suddenly pop up quite a bit in Brisbane.
Yeah, looking forward to the show as well, driving down in the Tesla with my oldest son for the weekend.
Thank you, such a good and intresting chat. Enjoy your 'Holiday' down under Sir Robert! and nice words and foursight Dan!
32C in all of Australia?
Given Australia spans 12 degrees south of the equator to nearly 40 degrees south of the equator I am going to guess the temperature varied a bit in that day
100% the best show!!! Share and share again!
I have been enjoyed, so thank you for delivering.
A lot of Holden dealerships are now LDV and great wall here in Adelaide south Australia. Great podcast. See you all in March
The free charger at that uni saved my bacon a few times years back when I was driving a Nissan Leaf and wasn't sure I'd make it home to Ipswich (west of Brisbane). Glad to hear it's still free.
Speaking of vehicle clubs there is one in Australia, NRMA I think it was, who has taken the viewpoint that ‘our job is to support our members and helping them go electric is just a new part of that job’ which I found an absolutely amazing and groundbreaking stance on things, which it really shouldn’t be, but it just really drummed home the fact that this club isn’t manufacturing cars so they aren’t brand loyal or ICE loyal in this case, they just help their members with their cars and EVs are just another type of car and they want to help inform and support their members through that transition. Which was just an amazing stance to have.
Yes. NRMA (mostly NSW based) has rolled out a very impressive regional network which makes tripping throughout NSW easy (and historically free).
With other state based motoring associations they've also recently acquired Chargefox which is one of the largest charging operators and billing systems.
@@mark123655 Thanks for the confirmation and additional details! Here’s to hoping the rest of NRMA across the country and other clubs follow suit!
I was the first person in my village to put in Solar & Batteries plus an air-source heat pump and now I've bought an electric car. I'm constantly bombarded by people who tell me that none of this stuff works. It's staggering.
My energy bills are REALLY low and today, for instance, I've charged the car from my solar & batteries and it's late January - the middle of the winter in the UK. But still my neighbours tell me they'll stick to their oil-fired heating and their smoky old diesel cars.
Well done
I'm a big fan of EVs and renewables and always pushed people to pay extra for heat pump dryers when I worked in retail BUT there are some problems with everyone going to solar, battery storage, and heat pumps for powering and heating homes in the UK. First is the cost as no one is saving any money until the costs for the equipment and installation are paid off. I watched a RUclipsr who changed to a heat pump BUT it cost £8k after the gov £5k discount as he needed pipe and radiator upgrades also. A new gas boiler would cost him £3k he said. Also, Dale Vince from Ecotricity has said and shown in reports that we would need 300% more renewables to power everyone's heating if they change from Gas, it's a big challenge. What I would like to see is a low or 0% interest loan for up to 10 years on these so you would probably see instant savings then? - we also need to see major upgrades to the UK housing as they are nowhere near efficient as I can testify from my 20-year-old flat. It's a big challenge in all areas but I'm optimistic with regards to renewables after my forum chats with Graeme Cooper from Nation Grid as he said we should have 300% more wind installed by 2030 and have 300% of our energy needs met from zero-carbon sources by 2050 so we can become a new energy exporter, we will see...
@@markreed9853 You've got to look at the long term.
You say that if you replace a gas boiler you still have to pay £3k which puts it on a par with a heat pump install after the discount. With heat pumps like the Vaillant aroTherm-plus (like mine) you DON'T have to change the rads or pipework because they produce a flow temperature of up to 70c - which is more than enough. Mine has been working perfectly all through the recent cold snap and my house is toasty warm. Plus the heat pump unit is outside so I've saved space in my kitchen. It's VERY quiet - we can sit a few feet away and don't hear it.
If you can find anyone who'll give you interest free for 10 years please get them to call me! I got mine on interest free for two years so the outlay hasn't been bad. Also I managed to get in on the RHI scheme which pays me £194 every quarter for 7 years (now replaced by the discount scheme). This effectively covers all my energy costs because I only pay about £65 per month to Octopus
@@scottcompany4040 no I said £8k, £13k before the government's £5,000 discount
@@markreed9853 mine was £8k before discount
I wish I had found your channel earlier! Your videos are fantastic!
Fantastic episode guys!
We have lots of Atto 3's in Palmerston North Aotearoa. You won't know about Palmerston North except that we officially named our rubbish tip Mount Cleese, after John Cleese said some not very nice things about our little city.
Nice talk guys. I thoroughly enjoyed that.
Look forward to the video about the Aus fleet conversion company. Keen to encourage them to be in NZ so many people have truck/utes here big demand.
Fascinating discussion by two great influencers.
I have heard Japan's problems expressed as this: "Japan has been stuck in the year 2000 since 1985."
A very interesting podcast, insightful especially about Japan. As a bonus I was slightly distracted by the menu above Dan's head where the Alphabet soup has a list of ingredients. Nice bit of anarchic humour from somebody.
Glad that you are having a holiday. Really very well deserved. Hope you have a good time, do stay there you're missing nothing.
I've seen about 5 atto 3s just around my suburb in Brisbane. Way more than I was expecting.
‘Robert talking about conversion companies in Australia and mentioning he’s been interviewing people’
Really hope this means we get a video/podcast!! It would be great to get an update on where the mass business ute conversion company is at! Also what types of business they are targeting if they have disclosed that at all yet… was walking past an idling council ute the other day and was just thinking ‘I hope they are on the conversion list’, probably not but hopefully some day!
Thank you
Good to hear Dan's trenchant analysis
Living in Australia 2023 we will see many EU EV's that we haven't had. Also Robert the Atto 3 is #2 is EV sales for Dec only beaten by Tesla. There was over 1200 of them sold last year since they launched or that may just be Dec sales. I still have my classic Ioniq 28 that Robert reviewed many years ago now but it's on it's final year and the Atto 3 is currently top of my shortlist for my next EV when my current lease expires. The Atto 3 is also a 5 Star safety rated by EuroNCAP. Just software is where the work needs to happen.
Great episode - I valued Dan’s overview of the chances of survival of the existing legacy car makers. Will the Osborne effect doom Ford - switching customers to electric so empty legacy factories but unable to replace with sufficient EVs.
Love your new office. 😁
This got me excited
going to have to book in some time off work and drive down to the show from QLD
Many words and much wisdom! Nice one 😁
Great vid chaps. 💚⚡🔋
Great podcast, supprised no mention of the Aptera?
Ok I know it's a long way off but I've already got my tickets for FullyChargedLive in Vancouver (Sept. 2023) and can't wait to see what the FullyCharged team is going to have on show for us. If Robert wants to see/meet petrol heads ... well ... the American border isn't that far away from Vancouver is it?
19:09 "GM is struggling" I've recently wondered if they are being deliberately bad about EVs. EV Hummer is an example. Terrible idea right out of the gate and they pushed it through. Has all sorts of issues off road. So I wonder if they are trying to make EVs look bad and unworkable. GM EV1 was a brilliant car and they smashed them all when they got rulings reversed requiring EVs to be built. So GM is a company that seems to dislike EVs.
With over 95% of their sales coming from pure ICE cars, all of the OEMs hate EVs. It's as simple as that.
No, they are just f…d
All of the OEM's still churning out ICE cars are going to disappear/bought and they know it. They have put their head in the sand, prioratised short term profits with final ICE vehicles at the cost of the company surviving long term.
The OEMs are controlled by dinosaurs who pander to share holders above all else.
Robert has lost so much weight in Australia. Must be the heat! He looks so healthy!
i had somebody (a brexit voting brit) tell me he would "never buy an MG4 because british cars suck"
i laughed ... a lot.....
That’s Brexit, brain removed voted for it.
Oh Hell! I brought Japanese. A Sunderland LEAF. Did I do wrong?
@@solentbum I'm 102k miles in on our Sunderland built leaf, no issues!
@@DorsetSaferRoads My other LEAF, also from "Japanese" Sunderland has just passed 83K miles without problems.
My sons "British" MG 4EV had its first recall last week after 3 months use.
@@solentbum mg4 is a new car bound to have issues, leaf had a recall too remember.
Looking good Robert
Haha super cool still shot… keep up the good stuff.
Holy crap the thumbnail to this video was the greatest
As I said before never mind about the yank tanks, that are prevalent here, the problem is the huge 4x4s, and 2cab utes,.
The transition continues with gusto.
The sodium battery is an interesting thing but I don’t think relevant to vehicles. The low energy per Kg seems to limit its application to static storage. However, that application is likely a game changer. I gather sodium batteries have a very long cycle life, a good volumetric efficiency and because of the abundance of sodium, a VERY low cost.
I wonder what happens to gross profit on a vehicle as soon as you outsource its manufacture. Does jag push the iPace? Not really. And I assumed it was because it didn’t make them any money. It could have done, but they decided they didn’t want to take the risk.
Confession to Fully Charged Live: Dan I have to confess, everytime I see or hear mention of you I remember getting your name wrong in reporting back to my car club after attending a Fully Charge Live event... I don't think I'll ever get over it...must mean I'll never be a good presenter. Anyway!..
Great Episode!... Comment...
1st. I think we would do well to realize there is still a battle of the multiple cultures within the American OEM industry. The visionaries are pondering how to best move their corporations forward. Many other powerful factions in the traditional auto industry unbelievably want to insure combustion engines remain a leading part of their industry regardless of the data. To ignore them is to ignore the American congressmen voting completely ignoring anything including proven science their party has not agreed upon.
Also I like your breakdown of ev adoption.
I am So Hoping 23 is the year ev's in many formats reach the tipping point of adoption.
Speaking of resistance to evs, apparently someone’s surprised reaction to Dad having a Tesla the other day was ‘but you’re a mechanic!?’ and Dad was basically like ‘yes but the fuel’s cheaper’ XD He also was dead set on the Tesla Model 3, long range because of the fuel efficiency given he and Mum had a 2-3 hour daily commute which is naturally really expensive in an ICE vehicle. They only had the car for a few weeks before the last electrical bill came so looking forward to the next one to compare fuel costs!
He’s a plant (farm) mechanic so cars aren’t really his thing so he doesn’t have to worry about his job there but he’s well aware that electric farm equipment is incoming.
46:50ish I am really curious about researching converting my Subaru Crosstrek into electric here in the States. Seems a tall mountain to climb though.
GM Ultium is rebranded Bolt battery cells from LG Chem. The ones that caught fire so easily. Good luck with that?
Solar panels on cars are green-wash at best. There is simply not enough surface area to make them worthwhile.
Legacy Auto think they can keep selling the same old same using the same old technology. Very (very) few are going to survive.
Japan wants to use nuclear hydrogen as it’s a significant by product of pressurised water reactors. Snag is the glacial pace of nuclear power.
British Moltex with their nuclear waste fuelled reactor gave up in UK. Killed by regulators who exist to stifle nuclear power of any type.
Ford and Holden were told to bugger off by our federal treasurer at the time! Never mind all the other companies that supplied them. Tesla is making huge profits compared to others. Glad we so far anyway have a not so hot summer.
In Sydney peak hour traffic you can't drive for more than 2 minutes without seeing a Tesla. BYD as the new challenger, based I feel as it's more affordable, is also making a push and doing well in the sales area. Polestar is sitting a little bit behind, but Tesla is the monster for sure.
Yes, Japan doesn't have any way of generating green energy after all they are a island nation with volcanoes like Iceland and Greenland, so just perhaps Japan could have geothermal.
Or perhaps wave power...
There aren't many places to have solar power so they would have to peoples roofs, or have solar roads and solar pavements, or there is that new technology where a window is also a solar panel generating from the UV light and IR light.
But there is also hydroelectric if you have mountains and rivers, you can stick a water wheel in there.
But I'm sure floating wind is probably the cheapest.
So there are a few ways Japan could be generating renewable electricity.
One issue not discussed is what countries are doing about gasoline taxes as drivers ultimately buy less gas. Here in Texas the gasoline tax is a huge source of revenue for the state and they are wasting no time in finding ways to shift that burden over to EV buyers. Here is what we are looking at: "Texas state senators are discussing a bill that would charge EV drivers between $200 and $250 for their car each year, plus another $190 or more if they drive over 9000 miles." Of course the worst possible thing you can say to a conservative Texan is "Why don't you have an income tax?" An income tax would eliminate the need for a gas or EV tax, but they won't ever let that happen as long as they are in power. We also have an onerous property tax system that also could be reduced if we had an income tax. And naturally the people who hate and fight the idea of an income tax the most in Texas - the rich ones. They even managed to amend the state constitution, banning nay income tax. So, EVs will eventually proliferate in Texas, but it will be more expensive to drive one here.
Rivian is producing the 100,000 electric delivery vans for Amazon! That is huge!
Japan can do ocean wave power, and wind and solar and geothermal.
some updates - ruclips.net/video/hZpqzfOSAjM/видео.html
I'm jealous! I'm in the middle of winter and now I see this. ;)
In my own lifetime I am amazed at how the world has changed so quickly in my lifetime. Here we are now with our mode of transportation going to electric.
You should look to get Richard Hammond on. He was talking about how his small cog workshop would be okay post 2030 as it was set up to target ICE enthusiasts. Would be an interesting discussion
When are the tickets for Farnborough going on sale ??? When you said it was almost sold out I take it that you mean people displaying and not visiting ?
Dan & Robert touched on so many subjects that have been big topics recently.
Probably the one omission is the sad, if inevitable news that BritishVolt has gone into administration for want of a promised, but early government investment injection. And with it the British lithium battery manufacturing industry, before it even got started. All the employees have been made redundant.
I read a fairly revealing article on the BBC News website called "Japan was the future but it's stuck in the past", which just illustrates the overall problems for change Japan has.
Tesla's profits are so large that they can drop the vehicle prices dramatically, and still make more net profit than anyone else, according to costs/reverse engineering experts Munro & Associates. This backs up Musk's several statements in 2021-22 that Tesla's cars were embarrassingly expensive and that they promised to drop prices as soon as they were able. Well, they certainly did.
Regarding laggards - It has always been my belief that one should never hang onto an old technology for too long if the new looks likely to change one's life for the better. And, at least be open minded. Never dig the heels in. Yes, we can all play our vinyl records - I still do. But Electric Vehicles vs Internal Combustion? It's a one-sided contest that need not even be happening.
And as far as companies being in a race to electrify is concerned, one commentator recently observed that if all the manufacturers were lined up to start a 100 metre race, Tesla and China would have 1 metre left to run, to win.
Some of the Australian charging companies Chargefox and EVIE Network have RFID cards that work better than a Mobile phone if the single is weak.
The UK has actually required that all new rapid chargers will work from contactless Credit/Debit cards. No need for clunky phone apps or restricted RFID cards.
Interesting conversation! My two cents: 1. Home storage batteries and solar are getting so good that when prices drop a bit more, homeowners and commercial real estate owners are going to move away from the large, expensive utility monopolies. Our utility monopoly and the petrol companies are corrupt, expensive train wreck. My goal, by adopting solar and an EV is to help turn corrupt Exxon and our corrupt utility monopoly into Kodak. 2. EV adoption will skyrocket as people brag to their friends how much money they are saving by becoming their own electric generation companies by putting solar on their roofs.
Have you ever covered Munro Motors in Scotland?
As a guy in the US, I so wish some US brand would make an *affordable* EV.
Aptera
You are so right about the word of mouth thing. A work colleague of mine recently went on holiday to America to visit relatives. He left here as anti EV as it's possible to be. He saw theirs, drove it, saw how easy it was to live with and came back totally converted.
In the UK though, I think we are in danger of stalling. I have owned EVs for a few years now and have felt the infrastructure improve and then go backwards. It is simply not keeping pace with the adoption of EVs in my opinion and I am, for the first time since switching to them, hesitating to take on a long journey in my car when the partners petrol car is there and I know it will be a much easier journey. When the chargers are there and available, I have nothing but praise for going electric. When they are not, it can absorb time like a big time absorbing sponge. What can we do to kick the government out of their rug pulling apathy and get us back on track?
I have an electric motorcycle, Zero.
I intend to buy an EV ASAP, probably an MG4.
My worry is the amount of anti ev lobby groups queueing up to bully the government to delay the 2030 ban on new ice vehicles.
Is there a pro ev lobby group or groups I can join forces with?
Thank you for the great videos and podcasts.
good choice there! i love it too
I'm Australian and drive a Mitsubishi Triton "Ute" for work. These vehicles are very popular here as they are very good for transporting tools and stuff for work. Also they attract a tax deduction for companies and self employed. I would love to have an electric one, but there just isn't one available. You cant get the F150 electric here and they are a bit too big and expensive for our purposes.
Great show guys, thanks. I've been whingeing for ages that too many of the traditional companies are looking to produce high-end electric vehicles. Where's the electric Fiat 500, Morris Minor, VW Beetle or 2CV? I'm currently working within the Geely group on a high end vehicle but the amount of tech being put in to the interiors is mad! Do we really need all these screens and ambient lights and god knows what else? How much energy are they draining out of the batteries? It feels like they are gearing up to anonymous vehicles where you are basically sitting in your lounge and the lounge delivers you to your destination. Perhaps the whole concept of what a vehicle is is changing. It won't be long before AI vehicles run in 'trains' on the motorways probably drawing the energy by induction from beneath the vehicle. So the question would be what do you want the car for? As a delivery vehicle for humans or as a a sport or recreation where you are in control and can have fun? (Yeh I know, both!) 🙂
Electric Fiat 500 has been around for years and so has the VW e-UP. Energy consumtion of a few screens in the dashboard is completely incomparable to the energy consumed by the drivetrain. It makes no difference. Touchscreen controls make the cars easier to assemble and therefore cheaper.
@@Simon-dm8zv Sadly though the Fiat 500e is not cheap at over £30k for some models though the quality is very good from what I've seen. I think the VW eUP and clones from Seat and Scoda when too far though with no screens (phone holder) and low charging speeds.
Great show but if Robert thinks Queensland is great then he must be saving the best to last Western Australia. Fully Charged did a factory tour of BYD 18 months ago and another on Shenzhen's electrification of all buses and taxis. One BYD ATTO/YuanPlus sold. Like the HAN and Seal but not currently avbl. The irony of old vs new is the Perth BYD showrooms are in an out of business once main Holden dealership.
My trip to the shops yesterday involved taking time out to talk with 4 people curious to know about the BYD brand and electric cars in general . I've also run a Chevy/Holden Volt for 4yrs (totally electric apart from the required half tank per year for maintenance) that was the foot in the water, still love it.. Home totally solar with Huawei batteries, therefore power bills zero.
For me, Magna are the most exciting company. Not only as component developers and suppliers, but potentially as a manufacturer of conversion kits, to take ICE vehicles to EV. Most existing car manufacturers will cease to exist, as they fail to "get it".
Interesting you mention Tesla doing well in Australia, I was in Perth over Christmas and New Year and in 3 weeks I saw a handful of Teslas, 1 EV6 and a Polestar 2, nothing else. It might be that EVs are slower to arrive 'out West'. I didn't see any obvious charging points whilst driving about either.
I live in Perth and you'll find charging stations at most shopping malls... but definitely not as obvious as driving around the UK. Also depends which suburbs you drive around in Perth, a lot more Teslas between the city and Cottesloe beach. I think the push by MG and BYD will be the game changer for WA and Australia as a whole...
@downwind_david admittedly I was mainly in the area North of the City. I visited Joondalup and Ocean Keys malls and didn't see the charging points, which doesn't mean they weren't there. (I was based in Mindarie).
One other factor clearly is that I'm attuned to spotting EVs in the UK, and I wouldn't recognise any of the newer Chinese models in the wild.
Suffice to say I had a lovely time in WA.
@@kmoorman2008 So Joondalup mall has two charging spots near the cinema - so that's two amongst thousands of parking bays! Not an easy find...
The PlugShare app helps and once you look, it is surprising how many there are, but most are AC chargers (22KW if you're lucky)... there are very few DC fast chargers although the recent government commitment to electrify from Esperance to Kunnunara will hopefully see some improvements in our charging infrastructure as a whole. The old joke is that WA stands for the Wait Awhile state - we are always behind the Eastern states, who are always behind what's happening in Europe and U.S. We'll get there... eventually
Hey guys, ACE Electric Vehicles are making electric cars in Australia. They've got a ute called Yewt, some vans and a small car
Don’t dismiss Hybrids just yet. In countries like Thailand where I am visiting grandchildren and the infrastructure is very limited they can make a useful contribution. My son has just bought a hybrid Volvo and has installed a home charger. He can do all his driving for work and around Chiang Mai on pure electric but driving to Bangkok (a full days drive) the ICE is needed. The alternative is flying which we all need to avoid
Bjørn Nyland proves otherwise. He regularly drives between Chang Mai and Bangkok in electric vehicles in less than 8 hours. Thailand is changing fast.
Well I can’t speak for German brands, but my family used to primarily have Toyotas and we only got another one a few years ago as an emergency purchase because EVs weren’t easily available or affordable yet, and now my parents primary vehicle is a Tesla Model 3 long range for their shared 2-3hour round trip commute every day with a caravan lead trickle charge serving them quite well thanks to a powerpoint upgrade or a quick trip down to the fast charger for a top up after longer weekend trips, while their ICE SUVs have been entirely sidelined in terms of commuting trips.
Meanwhile my small second hand Toyota is still going strong and a great car, but I have zero intentions of buying a Toyota as my next vehicle when I go electric. Personally I’d love to get my hands on a long range Carver and hoping against hope that _maybe_ they will be coming to Australia for the Fully Charged show, or at least consider entering the country at some point! Also that if they do come that they will hopefully be legal to drive on a car licence instead of only for motorbike licence holders.
Around the 38 minute mark, they were speaking about the price cuts from Tesla. According to Sandy Munro, Tesla is still going to make around 25% profit on each car sold. The reason to cut costs wasn't due to a lack of demand, but rather, due to the new IRA laws passed here in America, which will give up to $7500 tax break to "qualified" buyers purchasing "qualified" vehicles. Cars that get the discount include a Stellantis-made eJeep, which has aa full-size gas engine AND just enough batteries to go 21 miles on pure electric. Another car that qualifies is an Audi gas car, no batteries at all, And it isn't made in America. But the Tesla Model Y 5-seat gets the tax break, (sold as a sedan, with a price cap of $55,000), while the Model Y 7-seat version gets HALF the maximum, as it is sold as an SUV. Same car, same motors, same batteries, yet those two tiny extra seats get you half the tax break.
THAT is why Tesla dropped prices across the board, so more people can now afford to buy a Tesla in the first place AND get the full advantage of the Government tax breaks, (and State tax breaks added on to save much more money on their purchase.
As you could guess, the tax break rules were written by the IRS, (Internal Revenue Service), and not the EPA, (Environmental Protection Agency). The EPA says that ALL Tesla's below a certain price point are eligible for the tax break, but the IRS has its own agenda and many electric cars are not eligible, while some gas cars are. Got to live with these crazy mixed up laws, don't you.
I thought the problem is that the Model Y does not qualify as an SUV according to the IRS, not the price of the vehicle. So that means that Tesla buyers do still not get a tax break, despite the price drop. Or am I wrong?
I can remember when Alfa Romeo drivers used to wave to each other 🙂
I am still wondering what happened to the 20K evs in the United States. Who makes enough to finance a 60K ev?
Tesla model 3 starts at 38k without IRA tax reduction. Your point remains though. Tesla wants to mass produce a lower priced vehicle but simply doesn't have the capacity right now. I would bet they'll start with that next year at the earliest.
Mg make a very good. £26k EV, the MG4, they are already here with more coming.
It’s the richest car market in the world
COVID knocked things back. Don't know how long for. But $60k is mid premium. Also $40k more than $20k and there's a bunch of EVs in between. Cheapest long-range BEV is the Bolt which starts at $27.4k.
I think Rob is lovely, but I'm freezing 🥶 in the UK right now, so my first reaction was GIT! 😘
16:30 Both Sono and Lightyear are in serious financial difficulty and IMO likely wont make it out of this year. And no we dont want cars with solar because its an expensive gimmick unless you live in Arizona or maybe have a large very lightweight 2-seater.
Robert please let Dan know I apologize for bothering him so much at Fully Charged live 2020 at the Circuit of Americas in Austin, Texas. Am I the reason y'all haven't come back to Texas for a Fully Charged live show again? I'm willing to pick you up at the airport in a VW ID4. Since you have been, Thank you for making the video.
BYD makes buses in Hawthorne California. What would it take to bring the BYD EV Cars to the United States?
The new IRA is good in some ways but it will make it harder and more costly for any car brand that makes cars outside the US and you also have this heavy distrust of China which doesn't help.
It will take a change in the attitude of Washington looking for reds under the bed to feed the MIC.
The story of the emergence of the new electric companies is less about the brilliance of its leaders and founders but more about the complete and utter incompetence of the existing car manufacturers. How does Tesla bring out an electric car in 2012 (Model S) and Toyota, a $281 BILLION car manufacturer, cannot release something even close to it in 2022 ???? Coming from the computer industry it would be like Intel releasing a 486 CPU in 2012 and AMD releasing a 386 CPU in 2022!!! The complete reluctance of the car manufacturers is most visible here in NZ. Teslas, Audis, Kias, etc are all close to 100K cars which very few people have any chance of buying. With every other established car manufacturer already in NZ (Toyota, Nissan, etc) doing nothing, we'll just get the cheap electric Chinese cars. Which i'm totally fine with. Its just really weird
And yet, Toyota sold 12x more cars in Oz than Tesla in 2022.
Tesla were mad not to advertise. Marketing a car cost $600 per vehicle here in Oz. With marketing, Tesla could have sold 10x more cars, and possibly have even overtaken Toyota.
Think about it. Toyota : Tesla = 12:1
@@nordic5490 They couldn't have sold 10x more Teslas because they have had a scarcity of batteries for the past few years, plus all the supply chain disruptions from covid. Things are improving now, hence the semi truck finally being produced etc. They will probably advertise at some point but probably not for a few years yet
That is a scary, “thumbnail” foto. Ooh, Australia sounds very nice.
Most Australians are waiting for the BYD Dolphin, Seagull and the MG4. The key to more Evs in Australia is affordability. Chinese cars are going to dominate the Australian market.
19:00. In America it appears that GM is actually owned by the old guard government. Ford appears to be a more benevolent company. The Ford Lightning is the best electric truck made so far, in the world. It's the nicest looking out of all of them, and more practical than Rivian (Rivian are good but only for wealthy people who want a fringe vehicle). The Lightning has about 8 or 10 outlets for 120 volt tools, all over the vehicle, it has all sorts of storage cubbies, and it has a screen that displays the total vehicle weight on the screen as you're driving, so as you place supplies in the truck, it shows you the total weight in real time, which is something I don't think any other EV has in the world. The Ford truck will look good 50 years from now, because it's the same body shape that been used since the late 1960's. In America, people still rebuild and restore trucks back to 1953, on a regular basis. The best part about an American truck, is that it has the beautiful truck shape. Ford shows their immense wisdom, by having restraint; doing wild changes to the shape of the best selling truck in America (The Ford F150), would be completely idiotic.
Wasn't Sandy Munro stating that Tesla make about +30% profit, as everything is direct (hello earlier Apple!), so of course they can cut price, especially as their production will get even cheaper.
Don't go to Tesco to charge, if it's not trading hours you'll get a parking penalty charge 😡
Not happy
Not many companies in Britain creating EV's if any ?
Amazing what a change of government will do for a country.
I wonder if Japan has strong currents they could utilize with Hydro? Also not sure how that tech does with the environment, fish etc…
Japan needs to go nuclear. It has one of the largest plutonium stockpiles in the world, 46 tonnes. It's enough for 5,000 nuclear bombs or could be used to power the country for many decades. They have to decide which.
some good info here with some good research in the islands of Scotland here - ruclips.net/video/gxR_ktz18Q0/видео.html
No, because Godzilla :)
@@markreed9853 that was a good video, i like Matt Ferral’s content. I also googled Japan’s ocean currents and there’s a 75-100km river of an ocean current running around the pacific side of Japan… maybe they should look into this🤷♂️
@@michaelsmithers4900 I do think most people think tidal is easy but the sea is a very harsh place for machinery and any spinning blades are going to need a lot of maintenance which increases costs. Also, there are major concerns regarding wildlife like whales. This all increases costs over cheaper solar and wind and while not as consistent has a proven track record.
Still seeing U.K newspaper opinion articles on people who bought a BEV but went back to an ICE car, wonder how many years until they can't do that anymore, 5, maybe 10?
What’s interesting is how certain channels harp on Tesla’s drop in market value but fail to add a little context like… how much other companies have dropped in value… these channels mention Rivian (which I own and have lost a BUNDLE), lightyear which might survive but…
GM and Ford have dropped as well and are rethinking their BEV schedule. Not to mention the tech stocks.
Let’s try to put some context around our statements. Just for fun.
Yes but you are living in the bubble of wealthy, smug, relatively warm South/SE of England with, in normal times, multiple public transport ways of getting about too. The e-car blogger in West Yorkshire very recently admitted seven of the ten nearest charger points (several miles apart) did not work. We outside the golden zone HAVE to depend on a private car to work, shop, get to the doctor, distant hospital, socialise etc. Very short mileage vehicles, especially in Winter, are factually of no use in the majority of this country, the forgotten large swathes away from the totally London centric UK.
What about Aptera?
There is more than 2 attos in Brisbane!
If you can afford a good EV, then they're good, if you can't, then you're stuck with what you have, because manufacturers have raised their prices to recoup what they'll losing & you're better off just waiting for a sensibly priced modern car!
How very dare you say that about GM, 'Mary led...and it matters' 😂
Love to know the etymology of the word "Laggard"
Already too late for many legacy auto makers.
Is Germany allowed to bailout auto makers under EU rules?
Hope not but fear they will if at same time France+ Italy can do the same. Anyway a bailout with unions on the background and not firing all top executives will not work.
Be happy Germany has Tesla!!!!!
My feeling at minimum half of all European brands will be eliminated finally.
@@lumtavon1952 Japan companies look even more in trouble to me.
I'd love the income to get an EV. but for now, it's funny watching FC. podcast in my car reminded me to put oil in it ! it needed a lot. thanks Robert 🙂
I understand as I work in retail but depending on where you are there are some good used EVs like the BMWi3 and rex versions if the range is a concern. Here in the UK used prices start around £11k for a 2014 model.
@@markreed9853 reasonable car loans are not easy to get right now for Evs. I have, this month had 10 loan companies approve my loan as long as it’s under 100,000 miles, 2015 or newer… and ice. It’s frustrating, and for me, I will take years to save, but I need a car now. Right now, evs feel like toys for rich people to enjoy, which I’m sure is the same as every new technology.
@@PippetWhippet I would never buy a new vehicle anyway but most people here in the UK who do buy them on PCP or lease I understand 🤔 - can you not get something like that or buy one used where you are?