The detailing (programming) of how the smart key system works is amazing. With a known good operating vehicle system, the key tester, scope and the book he had in his car, now you can go back to the dealer and say wrong key by showing the key book. Thank you for this lesson Bernie!
Bernie thank you for taking the time to make this video. I’m sure you probably new the problem very quickly BUT you took the time to help me and many others to understand the proper system functions
You should be partnered with an online service manual provider like Mitchell for example and provide short videos accessed within the repair manual. Manuals with access to short videos from you could be “premium service manuals”.
Incredibly informative diagnosis and tutorial. I would have thought that by comparison to the original key you could tell the new ones were wrong. Well done and thanks!
Great content Bernie. I wish that you can make more content like this regarding antitheft systems and how to test when the module is operating correctly. I have a transponder that talks to the PCM over CAN lines and that is difficult to troubleshoot when we dont know what we should be looking for on the signals.
Bernie, AWESOME video/information and really easy to understand how those system works more of this kind of info would be much appreciated thanks brother for all the time and effort to show us all that A+++++.
Amount of information here is amazing. This is the video, and i would like all of your videos are alike. This one is really detailed and well explained, i wish that you produce more videos like this. In some videos you are kinda rushing things assuming that all out there have the necessary knowledge to follow your content but this one in my opinion was at professor level. I enjoyed this one so much. You proved that dealer is not the ultimate level and authority after all. Thank you.
Hi Bernie. When are you gonna make another immobilizer troubleshooting videos like this? I really like this kind of videos when using lab scope and explaining how things work. Amazing video and Bernie as always. Thanks Bernie
Out of curiosity I looked to see if the key frequency is on Pro Demand and it is. But it’s backwards, shows the 315MHz for the GT and the 433.92 for the sedan. Claimed to be OE information.
Just a thought, with all due respect, when you are referencing ground, why would you not want to reference the same plane as the modules? That isn't necessarily battery ground or chassis ground. In fact, even at the DLC, there is a difference between chassis ground and signal ground. I have seen techs miss the problem when they scoped from the battery/chassis ground when the actual problem was that the modules were missing their ground plane for communication. The tech saw a signal on the scope, but then couldn't figure out why the modules could not communicate. The issue was that the signal ground wasn't there. Had they referenced signal ground, they would not have wasted time going sideways on the problem.
I wonder if the signal is audible if you were able to tune into that frequency. Your radio signal tester was beeping in different tones. Was it converting the signal into an audio representation of the actual data transmission?
Those wires that you are probing at the Control Module are not capable of carrying RF signal (i.e. anything over 1 MHz), as they are quite long without any shielding, so even if you had a 5 or 10GHz scope you will never see the UHF signal, also you will need special very expensive probes to even pick up such a high frequency signal, the actual radio frequency signal is produced close to the antenna where the carrier frequency is modulated with signals coming from the Control Module.
My questions is, why couldn’t the shop compare the original key and the new key from the dealer? This could’ve been prevented from the start and saved mr Bernie a trip. The keys are physically different.
Nice video and explanation. I guess it goes back to the old saying. „Trust, but verify“ I can see going down a rabbit hole without the proper knowledge and test equipment.
I’m sorry I forgot to tell you that my vehicle is a 2007 Hyundai Veracruz Limited I have two key fob’s and as I stated earlier I have to juggle and twist and turn to get it to start now it is frozen it will not let me turn The ignition at one time it was loose. It had a lot of play for the last several months but now it is completely locked up and I need to know how to repair it was the first step I’m at a total loss. Thanks.
Hey have you ever heard about the XTOOL X100 PAD2? u know if its bi directional? AND the Ancel X6 OBD2 Diagnostic?? (supposedly does some bi directional controls)?? cheerz!
I thought mine start button was bad cause it wouldn’t shut the engine off the whole system is intermittent some times the horn won’t blow and the headlines won’t come on any hints already checked fob batt brake lite switch etc ty
Need help with the ignition switch. I have to juggle and juggle the key for it to start. Sometimes I can juggle it with just my hand and start it without the key key fob ….now it is completely frozen it would not turn at all, so I’m stranded with my car parked in my driveway can you please help urgently
Nice job sir and very very good information how can iget this book and how much I do also car electric and key job like this book and iam intrested this book thanku boss let me now please
Hello there can anybody tell me why you would need antennas in the console and the shifter I understand why you need the key ring one but why the other two
Josh, they are used to pick up the key signal and see if it is presently inside the car, which in turn lets you start the car. That's why it's possible to have key in your pocket or purse or cup holder and start up the engine. There's antennas all over including the trunk, if the trunk antenna picks up the key signal , the car wont lock the trunk, i.e. so you don't lock the key in it. The key ring antenna is not necessarily an antenna but more of a "exciter" or transceiver , it's more for a back up, on most keyless cars you need a way to still "wake up" the key to get it's rolling code for immobilizer functions, so if the key battery is dead or the antennas are dead , you can put the key by the push start button and there will be communication present there when you request engine start, no different with a normal ignition lock key you insert and key info gets transmitted when you turn ignition lock. hope this helps.
A few people were inquiring about the Book Mr. Thompson is using : Author is Michael Hyde keydirect.ca/product/autosmart-2019-by-michael-hyde-foreign-domestic-set-spiral-bnd/
Bernie really makes this whole video confusing as hell. The number of antennas and where they are located has nothing to do with the problem he is experiencing. He confuses everyone by repeating these nonsensical antenna tests over and over again. It really is simple and takes about a minute to explain. When the ID code from the key matches the ID code in the computer's memory, the immobilizer is disabled and the vehicle will start. There are two ways to get that information to the computer. This first as he points out is to have the key very close to the ignition. And he explains how that code is read. The 2nd is transmitting the code over the air via its modulation on a particular radio frequency. And in order for that to be accomplished the frequency of the signal transmitted from the key has to match the fixed tuning of the receiver in the car. Think about your car radio. To hear a particular radio station you have to tune the receiver in the car to the frequency of the transmitting radio station. The music and voice is the information modulated on the stations radio frequency. The difference in the smart key system is the receiving side of the key and the car are fixed and therefore the frequencies of each must match in order for each to hear the other. So even though the ID code information modulated on the carrier frequency is the id signal necessary to start the car because the carrier frequency of the key is different from tuning of the receiver attached to the computer it cannot be heard by the car.
When you said “very high voltage”, you meant “very high frequency”, as that is how voltage induction works. Most mechanics don’t spend the time to really understand modern cars and their computers and digital systems. This would have been a very simple diagnostic if they just checked the frequency of the car vs the key they were given. It’s simply the difference between the American vs the European standards (433 MHz vs 315 MHz).
Which is wrong. It isn't voltage. The process is called "inductive coupling." That is what I found strange at the onset. There isn't "high voltage." There isn't a lightening bolt jumping from the button to the FOB. There is a magnetic field from the coil, which is also an antenna. The FOB has two sides to it, a low frequency side and a high frequency side. They both can transmit, one at LF and the other at HF. When, for some reason, the high frequency portion, which is what we normally use for passive start/entry does not work, we have to rely on the LF side. What is happening is, there is a coil assembly placed somewhere on the vehicle for backup operation. Ford and GM usually put theirs in the console area, Chrysler and Hyundai like to hide theirs in the start button. When we have the FOB in close proximity to the coil, a magnetic field from the coil induces a small voltage into the FOB which gives it enough of a charge to provide energy for the LF side to respond to the challenge wirelessly by means of a LF signal back to the coil which is also an antenna. It is exactly the same method that the the old transponder keys used to energize them going way back to the 1990's.
@@darrenbeanard6966 I'm not watching the video again at this point, but if memory serves, the context was about transmitted power. Yes, frequency does have a role in the amount of power transmitted in an inductively coupled system, but in this case, it's tuned at a specific carrier frequency. In order to transmit higher power, at a specific carrier frequency, the variable that you can change is voltage.
15 minutes to show the send/receive is working.. Write a script that will help keep your thoughts more concise. The info is great, but too wordy. That said, being a hyundai owner I know that key is too new.... just by looking at it.
Авто/Мото
Damn Bernie Thompson is a complete automotive Savage.
2 minutes in and Bernie is blowing my mind. Love your videos mate. 👍
Yes! Wooow, this is so damn good!
I agree!! I have learned from bernie for a while now, but this one made my brain hurt!!!! 'bout time to hang up my tools.... Or buy even more tools!
The detailing (programming) of how the smart key system works is amazing. With a known good operating vehicle system, the key tester, scope and the book he had in his car, now you can go back to the dealer and say wrong key by showing the key book.
Thank you for this lesson Bernie!
Bernie thank you for taking the time to make this video. I’m sure you probably new the problem very quickly BUT you took the time to help me and many others to understand the proper system functions
Your knowledge is outstanding sir
We love all your videos thanks again
You should be partnered with an online service manual provider like Mitchell for example and provide short videos accessed within the repair manual. Manuals with access to short videos from you could be “premium service manuals”.
Incredibly informative diagnosis and tutorial. I would have thought that by comparison to the original key you could tell the new ones were wrong. Well done and thanks!
Wow..loving to learn every time i watch you explain the diagnose👍🏻
Great content Bernie. I wish that you can make more content like this regarding antitheft systems and how to test when the module is operating correctly. I have a transponder that talks to the PCM over CAN lines and that is difficult to troubleshoot when we dont know what we should be looking for on the signals.
Bernie, AWESOME video/information and really easy to understand how those system works more of this kind of info would be much appreciated thanks brother for all the time and effort to show us all that A+++++.
Amount of information here is amazing. This is the video, and i would like all of your videos are alike. This one is really detailed and well explained, i wish that you produce more videos like this. In some videos you are kinda rushing things assuming that all out there have the necessary knowledge to follow your content but this one in my opinion was at professor level. I enjoyed this one so much. You proved that dealer is not the ultimate level and authority after all. Thank you.
Great video Bernie , enjoying you sharing your knowledge with us common folk lol . Thanks love your tools , very satisficed with them .
Excellent video and in depth explanation of the system! Tank you Mr.Thompson!
Next level diagnostics.
..... Smarter than the manufacturer...!!
Just fantastic , you're blowing informations .. can't stop watching your videos
You are fabulous at educating while keeping it interesting. Adore your delivery!
I am amazed again at your knowledge Bernie, is there anything that beats you 🤔 I believe not 👏👏
Just an awesome lesson on security issues, Thank you Bernie
This was absolutely wonderful to watch. You're an amazing teacher.
You are the best Sir 👍. thanks for teaching us how to use the oscilloscope
Bernie you are a auto genius love your videos so much info woul have love to been an apprentice and you as my teacher
Thank you Sir for sharing all your diagnose. I learned a lot.. and I’m a big fan.. thanks again
If someone were on a budget and needed to do this kind of a test, there is a receiver called the RTLSDR. It is an inexpensive(
That's what I do :)
Hi Bernie. When are you gonna make another immobilizer troubleshooting videos like this? I really like this kind of videos when using lab scope and explaining how things work. Amazing video and Bernie as always. Thanks Bernie
Wow, this was really great information! Thank you for the lesson!
Awesome video and information. Thank you for sharing!
This was outstanding. Thank you
Bernie does not serve fish. He tells you the best places to bait and drop your hook. Priceless.
ONE of your best video. Bernie religion.
Where did you get the key manual from Bernie?
Great subject matter thanks Bernie thank you very much
Mind blowing great information!
Your videos are very interesting thank you for sharing.
Great info. Much appreciated
Fantastic Information Thank You !!!
Good video, the dealer should pay for all the diagnostic.
Thanks for sharing Bernie... Cheers.
Very informative video. Thank you!
Those books are AWESOME...spiral version, 3 ring version or spiral plus web....soooo cool!!!!
Great job and video like always
thank you for this explaning
Out of curiosity I looked to see if the key frequency is on Pro Demand and it is. But it’s backwards, shows the 315MHz for the GT and the 433.92 for the sedan. Claimed to be OE information.
Great work very Professional
You the man 👍 brilliant
Great video can’t wait to put this in to practice. What was the setting on the scope?
Outstanding
This man is turning me into a monk
Just a thought, with all due respect, when you are referencing ground, why would you not want to reference the same plane as the modules? That isn't necessarily battery ground or chassis ground. In fact, even at the DLC, there is a difference between chassis ground and signal ground. I have seen techs miss the problem when they scoped from the battery/chassis ground when the actual problem was that the modules were missing their ground plane for communication. The tech saw a signal on the scope, but then couldn't figure out why the modules could not communicate. The issue was that the signal ground wasn't there. Had they referenced signal ground, they would not have wasted time going sideways on the problem.
The man is awesome
I wonder if the signal is audible if you were able to tune into that frequency. Your radio signal tester was beeping in different tones. Was it converting the signal into an audio representation of the actual data transmission?
Very good my. Friend. ... Bernii
Those wires that you are probing at the Control Module are not capable of carrying RF signal (i.e. anything over 1 MHz), as they are quite long without any shielding, so even if you had a 5 or 10GHz scope you will never see the UHF signal, also you will need special very expensive probes to even pick up such a high frequency signal, the actual radio frequency signal is produced close to the antenna where the carrier frequency is modulated with signals coming from the Control Module.
My questions is, why couldn’t the shop compare the original key and the new key from the dealer? This could’ve been prevented from the start and saved mr Bernie a trip. The keys are physically different.
Another episode from Bernie's Book of Knowledge
i love you sir
Nice video and explanation. I guess it goes back to the old saying. „Trust, but verify“ I can see going down a rabbit hole without the proper knowledge and test equipment.
I’m sorry I forgot to tell you that my vehicle is a 2007 Hyundai Veracruz Limited I have two key fob’s and as I stated earlier I have to juggle and twist and turn to get it to start now it is frozen it will not let me turn The ignition at one time it was loose. It had a lot of play for the last several months but now it is completely locked up and I need to know how to repair it was the first step I’m at a total loss. Thanks.
100👍👍👍likes . Thanks Bernie
FM band is 88 to 108Mhz. 432 is the UHF band (Amateur Radio band)
Where can we procure that book and key reader?
Hey have you ever heard about the XTOOL X100 PAD2? u know if its bi directional? AND the Ancel X6 OBD2 Diagnostic?? (supposedly does some bi directional controls)?? cheerz!
Throws the new key on the ground to prove his point. Love it lol
Would this system be in a 2011 also I’m trying to figure mine out without a scope TY
I thought mine start button was bad cause it wouldn’t shut the engine off the whole system is intermittent some times the horn won’t blow and the headlines won’t come on any hints already checked fob batt brake lite switch etc ty
Need help with the ignition switch. I have to juggle and juggle the key for it to start. Sometimes I can juggle it with just my hand and start it without the key key fob ….now it is completely frozen it would not turn at all, so I’m stranded with my car parked in my driveway can you please help urgently
Nice job sir and very very good information how can iget this book and how much I do also car electric and key job like this book and iam intrested this book thanku boss let me now please
where can an owner get a programmer shown in video??
dealership messed up or wrong vin was given
The only people who are down voting this work at the dealer that gave the shop the wrong part.
Just replace the 7.5 memory fuse under the drivers side fuse box , simple as that
Hello there can anybody tell me why you would need antennas in the console and the shifter I understand why you need the key ring one but why the other two
Josh, they are used to pick up the key signal and see if it is presently inside the car, which in turn lets you start the car. That's why it's possible to have key in your pocket or purse or cup holder and start up the engine. There's antennas all over including the trunk, if the trunk antenna picks up the key signal , the car wont lock the trunk, i.e. so you don't lock the key in it. The key ring antenna is not necessarily an antenna but more of a "exciter" or transceiver , it's more for a back up, on most keyless cars you need a way to still "wake up" the key to get it's rolling code for immobilizer functions, so if the key battery is dead or the antennas are dead , you can put the key by the push start button and there will be communication present there when you request engine start, no different with a normal ignition lock key you insert and key info gets transmitted when you turn ignition lock. hope this helps.
@@DTEAuto wow thanks
It looks like you purchased the incorrect smart key, I did not watch past 10 minutes, was that the issue?
Ok, so now the hard part - tell me how to get the dealer to give you a brand new key.
Show the fix.
A few people were inquiring about the Book Mr. Thompson is using :
Author is Michael Hyde
keydirect.ca/product/autosmart-2019-by-michael-hyde-foreign-domestic-set-spiral-bnd/
Trump should hired Bernie to do a forensic check on a voting machine.
Pure brain surgery
How does the dealer provide the wrong key if they have the cars VIN number?
They don't, they have to be programed using a pin code .they ALL come unprogram.
@@greywolf1113 The key the dealer provided was transmitting the wrong frequency.
Bernie really makes this whole video confusing as hell. The number of antennas and where they are located has nothing to do with the problem he is experiencing. He confuses everyone by repeating these nonsensical antenna tests over and over again. It really is simple and takes about a minute to explain. When the ID code from the key matches the ID code in the computer's memory, the immobilizer is disabled and the vehicle will start. There are two ways to get that information to the computer. This first as he points out is to have the key very close to the ignition. And he explains how that code is read. The 2nd is transmitting the code over the air via its modulation on a particular radio frequency. And in order for that to be accomplished the frequency of the signal transmitted from the key has to match the fixed tuning of the receiver in the car. Think about your car radio. To hear a particular radio station you have to tune the receiver in the car to the frequency of the transmitting radio station. The music and voice is the information modulated on the stations radio frequency. The difference in the smart key system is the receiving side of the key and the car are fixed and therefore the frequencies of each must match in order for each to hear the other. So even though the ID code information modulated on the carrier frequency is the id signal necessary to start the car because the carrier frequency of the key is different from tuning of the receiver attached to the computer it cannot be heard by the car.
what really solved the problem was that wonderful reference book on smart keys.
When you said “very high voltage”, you meant “very high frequency”, as that is how voltage induction works.
Most mechanics don’t spend the time to really understand modern cars and their computers and digital systems.
This would have been a very simple diagnostic if they just checked the frequency of the car vs the key they were given.
It’s simply the difference between the American vs the European standards (433 MHz vs 315 MHz).
No, you missed his point. He said, and meant, voltage. Watch it again.
You should've finished the video first lol
Which is wrong. It isn't voltage. The process is called "inductive coupling." That is what I found strange at the onset. There isn't "high voltage." There isn't a lightening bolt jumping from the button to the FOB. There is a magnetic field from the coil, which is also an antenna.
The FOB has two sides to it, a low frequency side and a high frequency side. They both can transmit, one at LF and the other at HF.
When, for some reason, the high frequency portion, which is what we normally use for passive start/entry does not work, we have to rely on the LF side.
What is happening is, there is a coil assembly placed somewhere on the vehicle for backup operation. Ford and GM usually put theirs in the console area, Chrysler and Hyundai like to hide theirs in the start button.
When we have the FOB in close proximity to the coil, a magnetic field from the coil induces a small voltage into the FOB which gives it enough of a charge to provide energy for the LF side to respond to the challenge wirelessly by means of a LF signal back to the coil which is also an antenna. It is exactly the same method that the the old transponder keys used to energize them going way back to the 1990's.
@@darrenbeanard6966 I'm not watching the video again at this point, but if memory serves, the context was about transmitted power. Yes, frequency does have a role in the amount of power transmitted in an inductively coupled system, but in this case, it's tuned at a specific carrier frequency. In order to transmit higher power, at a specific carrier frequency, the variable that you can change is voltage.
@@darrenbeanard6966 in this case he's backprobing the module and reading the primary induction coil voltage
Alligator clip bookmark 😍
15 minutes to show the send/receive is working.. Write a script that will help keep your thoughts more concise. The info is great, but too wordy. That said, being a hyundai owner I know that key is too new.... just by looking at it.