Oh my gosh, I just found the original video of that circus mass. Novena Solene | Entrada da Bíblia - 3º dia - dia 05 de Outubro de 2012 I thought the video maker inserted that circus music!
GuineaPigDan this Mass was World Youth Day 2013. The accompaniment was March of the Gladiators and from what I understand from a Brazilian friend of mine the song has a very different connotation there than it does here.
It is impossible that the music is like this in that catholic mass it is prohibited by the Vatican to use circus music in it and why is there no crozier held by the bishop
Margarito Trevino It's not only the circus song... It's also that procession with the caroussel, that weird structure with people swinging on it, the roller blading angels... so sad.... the Church does not recongnize sacred anymore.
I'm a Catholic here in the Philippines and it's more better to attend a mass here in my country because the churches here still follows the traditions way back to the spanish era and it's more peaceful and sacred.
Join ark of salvation orthodoxy! Reason why catholic church illegimate: 1.why theres is god like leader? Why they don’t accept christ as leader but pontiff? 2.its not agreed that rome is sovergin by ecumenical council. 3.all bishops must be equal,theres no leader like main bishop.
I am Orthodox and I know that a typical Catholic mass is not like the one portrayed in this video... The Orthodox liturgy here is a hierarchal service. Though the Orthodox liturgy is quite beautiful , this is not a typical service...Let's be kind to our Roman Catholics please.
To be fair, the Catholic mass shown here is also hierarchical. It's taking place in the second-largest Catholic basilica in the world. But yes, it's far from typical. Although, I always found perfectly ordinary masses shocking enough, with sufficient abuses to embarrass any Orthodox.
@Bloreen Kobux the Lantin mass is a better representation Catholic theology , and Cathilic tradition. The new mass is a simplified version , and can be said well with reverence, unfortunately we find to often liturgical abuses creep in to the new mass , more or less depending on the parish. I'm one of many Catholics who are heart broken over this . I pray for the Bishops to correct these problems.
Yes and that was not an entrance,it was a procession after the mass so they were wishing everyone and tell bye ,and at the end they made it look as if it was a procession
I am a Roman Catholic and I must say that this is not the true catholic divine liturgy, but a liturgical abuse. Unfortunately, it happens more frequently than we would like. But liturgical rules, if correctly and faithfully followed, would produce a ceremony very different than this one showed in this video. And it is totally unfair with priests faithfull to the liturgy as prescripted by the Catholic Church to show this video as if this abomination were happening in all catholic temples. I am a testimony that it is not.
I truly respect Orthodox Church. However, things showed in this video in comparison to Orthodox Ceremony do NOT happen in Catholic Church. Please share the truth insead of falsehood and at least go see the Catholic Ceremony prior to putting your beliefs in public.
Oh orthodox priest have sin they are able to marry but chatolic priest doesntandnit was said by the bible that you shouldn't. Compare me to a person serve only me forever and ever
As we say in french : "comparaison n'est pas raison". Orthodox chistianity isn't just russian (and specially this one, the one of Moscow's Patriarchate...) and Catholicism isn't only this brazilian show. ;-)
The difference is that you see these pathetic shows in every continent of the Earth in the Papist World. You don't see that in Russia, nor in Jerusalem, Georgia, Serbia, etc...
What do papist want ? To go on ruling what they consider beeing their world. What do the New Evangelical churches want ? Make money and end with the Papist power. Do you think some Orthodox Churches aren't looking for gold and power too ? Sorry, but about some o'them, I don't think they just seek for purity and holiness...
Thank you fore posting. I am a Roman Catholic who attended Orthodox Masses while on St George Island, Alaska. I was truly impressed with the Clergy and also my fellow worshippers.
I am Orthodox , and the mass show here is unfair because it is a daft charismatic guitar mass in central or South America. But even the Tridentine mass pales to The Divine Liturgy . Also this is a Hierarchal Liturgy .
This is obviously a very biased, unfair comparison. The Catholic Church has very beautiful liturgical rites, some basically identical as the ones celebrated by the Orthodox. There has been a lot of liturgical negligence here and there, unfortunately, sure, but that doesn't take away from the fact that we also celebrate the Divine Liturgy (Mass) in ways that are unique and extremely beautiful.
Чварков Ђорђе - Well, you can either show where Rome supports liturgical abuses like these or else just look like a person of a big mouth and no idea of what he's saying.
Чварков Ђорђе - I can only let the responsible men (even if among them are the Pope and bishops) give account to God for their way of serving Him. You are being very judgemental and are committing the mistake of generalizing.
+Чварков Ђорђе The issue is that he compared an Orthodox Liturgy to a Catholic service, not a Mass, and that's the obvious clear part about it. That "Gospel procession" never took place during a Mass. Secondly, if you read Vatican 2 documents and the Mass liturgy, then you'd actually realize that Cardinals and Bishops do not support or encourage a Mass like this. Thirdly, devotions to God are not lame in any light. Regardless of what religion this is, criticizing someone's worship of God is childish
To make a real comparison you should compare the orthodox with The Catholic Church in Rome, because in Brazil we live in a situation that our bishops doesn't quite obey Rome, culminating in stuff like that.
@@TheRealRealOK The fact that you call it papism, and not Catholicism shows your bias. Only those who hate the church and will do anything to slander it call it papism. Use real terms, I’m not calling Orthodoxy “patriarchism”.
I am an italian Catholic Cristian, and I have something to say about that. This video isn't objective at all: you are trying to manipulate the public. You are comparing the liturgy and worship of an Orthodox Church with the one of a veeery weird brazilian Church. European Catholics would find blasphemous and extremely inappropriate this wild cerimony, so it's unfair to portray a faith of Millions people with a ridiculous collage. For sure you have never seen a Catholic worship. Plus, you should be ashamed as a Christian for incite hatred, rather than find and promote the common points between our Churches. Greetings
***** I can give you my own explanation, even if I'm not a theologian or an historian. Catholicism as well as Christianity is a global widespread religion, so during centuries, it adapted to the local cultures. For this reason you can find multiple and different versions of Catholicism. Maybe in that area of Brazil, people are very festive or fun-loving, so they created a carnival-like Liturgy. Of course I'm horrified, but what do you expect, an intervention of the Inquisition, or an excommunication? By the way I think it's completely ignorant to compare a little crazy situation with the Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, which is a much more bigger reality. I have attended many Orthodox ceremonies, and I have never felt any distance or discrimination. How many of you can say to have experienced the different? Happy Catholic Christmas, and to the Orthodox friends, we will celebrate the January 7th :)
Allie S: try Milwaukee WI with "Liturgical Dance" under Weakland. Clown Masses all over the nation. "Buddhist" Masses in New Mexico. I have seen it here in the USA.
Having been raised Catholic as a child but returning back to my Orthodox Christian roots, I cannot deny the deep reverence, respect and power that comes out from an Orthodox liturgy compared with a Catholic mass. You certainly see that the Orthodox Church has kept all its traditions with great pride, whereas most of the Catholic Church has modernised quite alot of itself to remain 'popular' with changing times. I also find that people of the Orthodox faith tend to fast and really uphold their beliefs alot more than Catholics in general. I am not saying that one is better than the other, they are both Apostolic Churches and I deeply respect both.
hahaha... I'm Brazilian and this is here next to where I live... but you put this was so unfair with this... you change the song in it.... it is Our Lady of Aparecida Sanctuary.... and this maybe have happened in 12 October... our Lady day and children's day in Brazil too... so please... be honest when you try to do a video... now I have a total different vision of Orthodox folks... I used to think that you are serious but after it I just have too thanks God for being Roman Catholic by Jesus and His Mother and Mine! have peace...
Delta De Venus OK... 1st: This children dressed like angels and the other stuff are NOT common.. This is the first time I see something like it. 2nd: like I said before, in Brazil Our Lady's day is 12nd October and the children's day is 12nd October too.. and 3rd: yeah! that was just the Bible entering... I mean, maybe they tried to do something theatrical there... why not? why not just a time? as I said, I never see something like that in masses from here, maybe in that day they did it. So comparing one random footage and pretending that in ALL CATHOLIC MASSES this happens is kind of shameful :) so as you said: Jesus Christ! And I keep on the church that Christ himself created! Have a nice day and a (late) merry Christmas ;)
@Danilo ramos Well, yes it is unfair to manipulate videos in such way, I agree. But also would not be fair to think because one minor kid who make this video to think all orthodoxian are like him. Your statement "thanks god for being Roman Catholic" makes you look arrogant and superior over your sisters and brothers in Christ. Do you don't think so? Sometimes I see the behavior of christians then I think christians are not much better than muslims. This would be very sad. However, take care and may you have a good life!
I have never seen the Holy Mass celebrated like that.It is time the message of Our Lord.the message of love and reconciliation,is what really matters,not comparisons in practice.God is love!.
i watched up to 1:31 and then realise you aren't interested in a general comparison... just anti-catholic anti-anything not orthodox. you chose the most solemn patriarchal entrance, but the most relaxed archbishopric entrance. thanks for increasing the gap in christian unity.
To all those who say we need to be fair to our Roman Catholic friends I agree. However, several points are needed to be made about this comparison. Is it showing some of the worst of Catholic liturgy? Yes. Is the Hierarchical Divine Liturgy something that happens often? No. But as many have made mention, the Mass we saw here is also technically Hierarchical, in a sense it is a Pontifical Mass so it is a one for one comparison. Moreover, the real issue this video is highlighting, which everyone who is butt hurt in the comment section is only further proving, is that there is a HUGE problem with a faith communion that allows any basilica to put on such a scandalous and shameful liturgy as the one we were subjected to. If you're mad about this as a Catholic, don't be mad that this happens almost never, and this video is making an unfair comparison, be mad that your church allows this kind of liturgy to happen with little to no repercussions. As a recent convert to Orthodoxy, it only further reifies why we must *jealously* guard the Liturgy, because once changes are made and we let things slide, it can lead to these disasters, we lose our identity, and we make a mockery of worship to God.
As an American Roman Catholic and an attendee of Mass in both the ordinary (Novus Ordo) and extraordinary (Latin/Traditional) forms (and several Orthodox Masses of family/friends of the Greek and Ukrainian Rite...), I find this portrayal of Catholicism in particular to be appalling and grossly misleading. In my 30+ years attending thousands of Masses in many US states, Canada and many Catholic churches in several European countries as well as one in China when I taught there, I have NEVER attended a Catholic Mass conducted in such a way! This video does NOT in any way that I have ever experienced depict the actual and true liturgical practices that takes place in a Catholic church... Anyone who watches this video, please take note it was created in a very purposefully biased way. To accurately understand and witness the common "liturgical practices" of either the Orthodox or Catholic church, go to a Mass at each church on your own and talk with the parishioners (laity), religious (sisters, brothers, deacons and priests. Relying on such a faux perception as this is highly misleading and manipulative. Praying for 'theomimesis' who chose to do this...
I'm Orthodox and I will admit that this is a poor comparison. An accurate comparison would have been a Russian Orthodox Patriarchal liturgy at Christ the Savior in Moscow with a Papal mass as St. Peter's in Rome.
I am A Orthodox myself with Serbian background. I've attended a few Catholic masses and I must say that sadly The Catholic Church has lost its way. From 1052 you have lost your way of the teachings due to power and greed. Europe once had four popes at the same time vying for power. Since then it has been a steady decline to a point where it is a joke. You Catholics need to get back to the true teachings of the apostolic church or leave her and come back to the one and true apostolic church which is Orthodoxy. Just my thoughts. May God guide you back to the original church, Amen.
Orthodox or catholics same difference. They both practice IDOLATRY, and follow human traditions that are not Biblical. There is only one Leader of the Church and that is Our Lord Jesus Christ, and not some human performing satanic rituals. (Hebrews 4:14, 15)
Dalia Thompson The Orthodox are not idolaters. Idolatry is specifically condemned by the Seventh Ecumenical Council. If anyone at an Orthodox church dares to attribute to an icon or a saint the worship due to God alone, they are anathema (excommunicated and accursed). Indeed the Greek word eikon differs from the word eidol, in that an idol is an image that is to be worshipped, whereas an eikon is any representational art (think about the icons on your iPhone or your PC and you get the idea). Historically, the Jews themselves used images in worship, and like the Orthodox, did not worship them, but venerated them, the most prominent examples being the sculpted Cherubim on the Ark of the Covenant, and the rich iconography excavated at various ancient Jewish synagogues, such as at Dura Europos in Syria. The idea that any use of imagery whatsoever is idolatry is of Islamic origin; the Byzantine Emperor attempted to ban icons in order to make a peace gesture to the Muslims, which failed, and the Seventh Ecumenical Council condemned him and the iconoclasts as heretics; at the same time, there were idolaters in the church as well, who did worship the icons, and did things like scratch off bits of paint and mix it in with the Communion wine, and they were also anathematized. Martin Luther, most Anglicans since the 19th century, and indeed most Protestants share our views on this subject. Protestants tend to use stained glass windows as iconography; Roman Catholics prefer statues, and we prefer paintings, but the effect is the same: to represent on Earth the heavenly realm above. That this is permissible is because the incarnate Word became Man, Jesus Christ, and thus to reject icons is to reject the reality of the Incarnation, for men did see God the Word, the Son of God, Jesus Christ, with their eyes.
God COMMANDED the use of images for HIS glory only. He never said anything about making images of Mary or dead people and then worshiping them. You Catholics and Orthodox go around your church making out with your heretical "icons." Repent and believe in the true God. You only need to seek salvation in Jesus Christ and accept Him as your personal Lord ans Savior. Idolatry is condemned in the Bible and in the 10 commandments. You only need to repent and accept Jesus as your savior and Lord. It matters not how much you kiss and make out with your idols but you will never find salvation in them. Salvation is only found in Jesus Christ ALONE.
Dalia Thompson As I said in my previous post, we do NOT worship any icons, even those icons of Jesus Christ; worship is due ONLY to God the Holy Trinity. Anyone who worships an icon in the Orthodox church is subject to excommunication. We venerate icons of our saints in the same manner you venerate photographs you may have of your deceased relatives, but we do not worship them. We ask for their prayers, along with the prayers of the living, but we do not pray to them, and we do not believe they have the power to answer our prayers, only to pray for us, as they are members of the Church Triumphant, and they can pray, just as members of the Church Militant can on Earth. Anyone who worships a saint, or who worships an icon, even an icon of Jesus Christ, is anathema.
IAWC - Support Persecuted Christians Lastly the Orthodox Church entirely agrees that salvation is found through Christ alone, and that Mary was in need of this salvation as much as anyone else; it is some Catholics who believe Mary to be the co-redemptrix (although even that is not the official doctrine of the Roman church, as much as their official Mariolatry must make the good Lady blush).
Should have compared a traditional latin Catholic mass with the Orthodox service. This is a joke, comparing a post Vatican 2 one (especially a really nutso "liberal" one) with the Eastern orthodox, which never actually had any Vatican 2 style changes. I was hoping to see a comparison of the core beliefs as practiced in a mass. No such luck.
Obviously this post presents a complete distortion of the picture, there are many similarities between Orthodox and Catholic liturgy and churches yet each has apostolic succession and many unique difference/fundamentals - what we see here is not an authentic comparison and perhaps deliberate... + Deacon Athanasius (Orthodox Christian and repenting sinner)
The purpose of this video was to mock people. Notice how the poster didn't put up a video from the Vatican or any proper Catholic Cathedral Latin service.
I do agree this is perhaps a biased representation regarding modern Roman worship... never the less... it exists and is allowed. The problem isnt trying to find a more "traditional service" in regards to the Vatican... The problem les within the Vatican itself.. It is a fireign religion void of historical and preserved Christian Truth.
First of all, with all respect Orthodox brothers, your can not talk about liturgy when you are schismatic. this is due to the Second Vatican Council; before him, the liturgy was precious and 100% respected, incomparable. Oh, and if they have some liturgy, it is due to another beautiful Catholic rite.
Luis, the word "pope" didn't show up until the 11th century and the Pope's then falsified documents on the "Donation of Constantine" which had been disproven as far back as the 15th century. The Pope was originally a Patriarch(first among equals) but was explicitly power hungry. Numbers do not make you right.
I am neither Orthodox or Catholic but I have attended services of both confessions. Its sad that whoever put this together created a propaganda piece for the orthodox church at the expense of the Catholic faith. Shame on you!!!
Don't fight brother's. Read a copy of Qur'an and understand what god's message for humanity is. All prophets have the same message. The message is there is no god but Allah (God) and Muhammad is his prophet. Similarly for other prophets. But as time passed people changed/mixed/ added/substracted bible and moved astray. So a new prophet comes.
This is not representative of the Latin rite of the Holy Mass! I think the Divine Liturgy is beautiful but our rite is beautiful too and I do not see the real Roman Latin rite in this video!
+Orthodox Church please read motu proprio "summorum pontificum" of Pope Benedict XVI :) Vatican II not forbidden the Latin Mass ! NEVER ! This is beautiful catolic Rite!
+Natalia Marfik hey I'm living in Moldova Orthodox .I want to talk to someone you may even want to know how you are thinking how to spend liturgies is absolutely trivial to believe in Catholic liturgy 's circus
As one of the posters below stated, Rome does indeed need to get her liturgical house in order, and I say this as an unapologetic Roman Catholic. That said, this video is a joke and the poster cannot be taken as anything other than a troll for presenting the worst excesses of the post-Vatican II Roman Church as the norm. It isn't, despite all the troubles we are having with liturgical abuse
But see, this is such an American plague, both North and South. But in Rome, and most parts of Europe, true reverence still exists. That's the issue with the Novus Ordo; not that it necessarily was meant to be Modernist, but many parishes with a heavy Protestant force locally affected the Mass. That's why the Latin Mass is the better form. Though BOTH forms are valid, the Latin mass leaves no room for error, irreverence, or liberalism. But I agree, these abuses need to be addressed and dealt with, along with the lack of Catholic identity and devotion.
I do agree with you in general, but with one exception: some of the most severe liturgical abuses recorded have been in Europe; there is a priest who does "Circus Masses" in Switzerland, and meanwhile the archidocese of Cardinal Schonburn, an ultra-liberal figure, is a haven for all sorts of irreverance of the same sort experienced in the US.
This is what happens when church services of any kind become entertainment. People may complain that this isn't a typical example of a Catholic mass. Maybe not. But it is a disgrace that it could happen at all. It certainly didn't happen in an Orthodox Church, and I guess that the real point.
I'm Roman Catholic. I have gone to many Divine Liturgies. I love both Rites. I'm appalled at this video. Do you really believe that Our Lord Jesus Christ would approve? How can one judge a persons faith by the style of their worship? You can't. So you make a film of one Catholic Mass that's chaotic and judge the Catholic faithful? If you are an example of an Orthodox faithful. Why would I want to go?
Our Lord Jesus Christ would approve of anything that brings us closer to Him. While I think the Catholic service was weird, I doubt that the Orthodox rite is much better. It's a bunch of old men in funny costumes, separated from the people -with the congregation just spectators. I doubt that's what He had in mind at the Last Supper.
S4andy63: I have seen Masses like this in California, Mexico and Illinois. The Catholic Church has divorced itself from its Holy Tradition and is adrift. Now we have a Modernist Pope who puts down traditional Catholics.
Gumboz1953 I really don't think you understand Orthodox Worship--how can you from a few minutes of video? BTW, do you know the music they're using in the Latin Mass is called "The March of the Gladiators?" It's used in circuses! There is no piety or humility when you debase worship with that secular noise.
I attend Orthodox church and I want to say this video is horrible. No one should make such a video, there is nothing respectful about it. There is no competition between anyone venerating, and the mere thought of anything such as this video makes me want to smash my computer into pieces.
I do in part agree with you, although I think the poster of this video was trying to warn the Orthodox of a dangerous problem the Roman church is wrestling with, which is at risk of infecting our own communions. There is always a danger in polemics of degenerating into nationalism or triumphalism, but I don't see that here; I rather see a video that looks to me like it can serve both as a valuable warning to the Orthodox, and as a wake up call to Catholics. When you see the profoundly negative reaction Catholics have at seeing this video, when they realize such gross impiety is occurring routinely in their church, one cannot help but feel that this video might contribute positively to the very important effort on the part of the Catholic church to reform itself, and purge itself of the Modernist heresy, which is certainly a prerequisite for the full reconciliation between them and the East, that I am sure that we both desire.
IAWC - Support Persecuted Christians I agree with both of you. As someone that attends both forms of the Catholic Mass Ordinary and Extraordinary, I very much acknowledge I've seen liturgical abuse in the Novus Ordo, so yes, if strict rules are not observed bad things can happen at times. No faithful person who wants to give reverence to God would, or should accept that. At the same time, this video is just to mock the few instances where rubrics are not followed. It's very prideful and arrogant on your part to whomever posted it What's really unfortunate is you give no respect to your fellow Orthodox who do not condone or defend the point you're trying to make. I hope Catholics as well do not do this with protestant liturgy, it's equally as demeaning and I as Catholic would not want any part in it. Not in Gods name.
CP Ramos It should be noted that it has always been legitimate to mock heretics. St. Irenaeus hillariously satirized Valentinian Gnosticism in Against Heresies. St. Elijah, whose holiness got him direct access to Heaven in a chariot of fire, openly ridiculed priests of Baal. The liturgical abuses depicted in this video are blasphemies, as bad as anything taught by Valentinus, and deserve nothing less than mocking and condemnation. Thus, its entirely wrong of you to describe this video, which does not even comment on that which it depicts, but merely presents excerpts of actual occurences, as prideful or arrogant, given that in the grand scheme of polemics, this is rather mild. One would be entirely justified in going far beyond the mild criticism this offers, in regards to liturgical abuses (and as a delightful example of such heresiology, take a look at the blog "Bad Vestments.")
IAWC - Support Persecuted Christians I should lastly say that the idea that it is somehow unchristian to make fun of, ridicule or lambast non-Christian religions or heresies is a novel one; both the Bible and the Patristic tradition are full of valiant saints who defeat, through firery and at times very humorous rhetoric, the enemies of God.
IAWC - Support Persecuted Christians Well if your Tradition teaches you to mock others to change their hearts, so that it will bring them to the Truth of Jesus' Gospel, then that to me speaks for itself. And my point completely flew over your head. Catholics like myself who attend the Tridentine Mass never see anything remotely depicted in the video, and never will. So the bias and mockery presented in the video paints things with a very broad brush. Furthermore, I doubt the fiery ideological justification you mention would apply to Catholics of the Byzantine Rite who use the divine liturgy. Of course you'll say that's because they conform to your Orthodox standards. If these types of videos brings joy and justification to your heart and mind then feed off it lol You can learn some humility by reading what Michael Lunz wrote,he'll bring more people to the Orthodox Church as well as the plight of the persecuted Christians in the Middle East and Africa, than the ideologue factions of your church.
I am Orthodox now, but was raised RC. I left party because of Vatican II. Of course, I had a few other reason to leave. (Yes, I am an old man.) I remember things getting a little wild after Vatican II, but not this wild. I tend to agree that we should have some way to confirm if this was something that really did happen at an RC service.
Unfortunately, yes. This outrageous mass happened in Aparecida Basílica. Since Vatican II, masses in Brazil kept going worse and worse, some kind of woke religion took control of the once known as Una Sancta Catholica et Apostólica Eclesia...😢😢😢
Im Catholic and ive never seen such a Mass before... if you want to do the comparison for sound purposes just put the papal Mass for example, i see no need for this comparison and especially the way it's done here, we are both Christ's Church and soldiers, we are ONE as the Father Son Holy Spirit are ONE! †
The "mass" in this video is the new mass, which is not Catholic, it is the new mass which is invalid. The scary part though, is that most of "Catholicism" celebrates the invalid new mass! We must inform people to return to the Holy Tridentine Mass.
Roman Catholic Truth This is NOT the "new mass"... I go to mass almost everyday and have never seen such a circus. Obviously this video was produced to ridicule Catholics and sublimize the Orthodox. Hasn´t 1,000 years of hatred and distrust been enough? Isn´t about time that ALL Christians began following Christ´s wishes?
B Rumm It's certainly not schismatic for a Roman Catholic to prefer the Extraordinary Form of the Roman Mass, and to attend such masses as provided by their legitimate diocese under the instructions of Summorum Pontificum, issued by Benedict XVI. It is however certainly schismatic to attend those masses celebrated by SSPX, or the sedevacantists, or any number of other traditionalist groups, many of which are anti-Semitic. The SSPX in particular, with its chic website and premium private schools, has turned religious intolerance into a luxury brand, and no Christian of any denomination should have anything to do with it. I myself am not Catholic, but I routinely attend the Tridentine Mass as celebrated in my local diocese, as I love the beauty and elegance of it, and am a liturgical enthusiast. Interestingly enough, as a member of the Syriac Orthodox church, I am even allowed to take communion. The Catholic church ought to reform the new mass so that it exhibits the same solemn dignity as the Tridentine mass, by celebrating it ad orientem, discontinuing lay eucharistic ministers, using more traditional music, and clamping down hard on liturgical abuse.
As a traditional Roman Catholic, I object strongly to this unfair portrayal of our faith. Many a Pope since Vatican II has issued statements in condemnation of the type of nonsense here. It is something we have a big problem with, but if you would simply show the true Latin Mass, preformed ad orientem as it was intended to be, you'd realize our liturgy is also very beautiful. And as far as the sex scandals go, keep in mind that, while indictments are handed out often, comparatively few arrests are made. There is no proof Catholic priests are more guilty of child molestation than any other group. A good lawer can get a ham sandwich to appear before a judge. And the lawyer is ALWAYS a Jew. I don't think I have to explain to my separated Orthodox brethren what it's like to be targeted by those godless people.
There is another longer video that shows a more balanced comparison of the two liturgical traditions. This video is basically comparing a sort of "Worst of Catholicism" to a typical Orthodox service. That said, the point, from an Orthodox perspective, is that before we can make progress with ecumenical dialogue, Rome needs to get her liturgical house in order.
***** First of all, it is not incumbent upon us to change a shred of our doctrine. While our liturgical house has fallen into disarray due to the subversion of Jews, homosexuals, Freemasons, and Communists that have infiltrated our seminaries, our Doctrine has remained. You 'orthodox' preach a lousy doctrine, which is why you tolerate evils like contraception, and Russians practice abortion at truly cataclysmic levels. Your Marian teaching is wrong, and you must renounce it. She was conceived immaculate. If this is not understood, then she is not the Ark of the New Covenant. But Luke makes it clear, using OT types, that she is. ABSENT THAT UNDERSTANDING, THE NEW TESTAMENT DOES NOT FULFILL THE COVENANT. A denial of the Immaculate Conception is close to apostasy. Every other teaching is ok by us, in my opinion. You don't want the filioque, don't use it, like Eastern churches that aren't in schism. But don't tell us it's a heresy. We believe in Consubstantialism. As I understand it, so do you. That given, not saying 'filioque' is just a point of emphasis. Look, the fact is you all can't get a council together, so it follows that you don't know how to define heresy. I'm sure videos like this make you all feel very warm and toasty inside, because you can take some Brazilian parade and make it seem like this is what Catholics do everyday, when Russians preserve a very beautiful (and, near as I can tell, unproblematic) liturgy. But, the truth is your doctrinal house is as disordered as our liturgical.
DemilichFan From my standpoint as a member of the Syriac Orthodox Church, I do not object to the immaculate conception of Mary, but I would say that she was as much in need of salvation by Christ as anyone else. The Syriac Orthodox Church officially believes in the doctrine of the Assumption of Mary, which is not unreasonable; if Enoch and Elijah could ascend directly into Heaven, then surely Mary is deserving of the same honor. If she was not taken up into heaven, either before or immediately after death, then one finds oneself with the rather pressing question, as to where are her remains?
DemilichFan I should also say, that the only Marian devotion in the Roman church that I consider to be problematic is that to the Immaculate Heart; devotion to the Sacred Heart of Jesus strikes me as Nestorian, and devotion to a body part of a saint, aside from a preserved relic, is utterly bizarre.
Catholic practices really tend to differ from country and cultures. From the Catholic practices in the video, it could be only be applicable to Brazilian or South American Catholics due to the fact that many elements of the local culture has been infused into the Order of the Mass. Orthodox practices would stay the same no matter where you would go. So it would be ridiculous to actually compare due to the fact that the Catholic Church would differ slightly from culture to culture while...
The greatest difference here I believe, is the reverence and humility of the parish/congregation...many of whom have the hymns memorised and are singing in worship to the Lord Who is the center of all activities in the Holy Orthodox Church!
Shouldn't the first caption be "KGB agent Mikhailov enters the church"? And, everything you show is also practiced by the church that is the TRUE recipient of the baptism of the Rus', The Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church.
Thomas Athanasius Thomas, you are so right. This is a faked together production of a Russian Orthodox liturgy with as Brazilian non liturgical celebration of National Children's Day and festival day of Our Lady of Protection Immaculate Conception. As I exposed in another blog that has been removed from here, the circus music has been superimposed to suggest a circus. It does not fit. Russian Orthodox have convinced themselves they are the Second Byzantium and Third Rome. The Catholic is going more Christ being honored by Christ honoring His lowly. Which "circus" rows His boat.
TGene ciarlo Oh yes. By the way. The Creole celebrating in St Peter's is the case in point of Catholicism allowing Creoles to honor God right at Mass. Get over yourselves everybody!
+Jacob Good that would fall in line with Orthodox Theology. We do consider ourselves the Catholic Church and so does the rest of.the world. These are little difference s I hope to see reconciled in my lifetime. We have much more in common. The Saints, Apostolic Succession, The Blessed Mother and most importantly Our Eucharistic Lord. I make the sign of the cross when I pass an Orthodox Church. One time I even venerated relics in an Orthodox Church while in Uniform. The people where happy to have us. The Orthodox bishop had no problem with us venerating the relics.
+jacob good we were all one before the Major Schism. The East broke away. The filioque can be understood correctly with both interpretations. The Pope is Infalliable only when speaking ex cathedra on faith and morals. Using the term heresy does not help in the Ecumenical movement. Many positive steps have taken place on the last 50 years.
The style of worship is very important...because it expresses the way you feel inside of yourself...its your composure ....if one is in peace or agitated. if one is in contemplation or out of it. There is a huge difference.
I'm A Catholic Turned Atheist, But I Have To Say, I Much Prefer The Orthodox Version Of The Mass……It's More Accurate To The Original Message And The Priests Clothes And Singing Is Beautiful….. What Is The First Hymn You Hear At The Very Start Of The Orthodox Clip? When The Patriarch Enters The Church?
This video is biased to Orthodoxy. I am Catholic, and I'd never seen a Catholic liturgy like this before... Show the real Catholic liturgy that they may know the truth.
I am a Protestant - yep I m headed home to the true roots of our faith.. Orthodox holds the true catholic faith. I can see this is a mere rare and crazy example of how the Roman West has lost its way.. of which much was inherited by us Non-Catholics in the West after the 16th century.. The Orthodox East has kept itself true and pure despite any short comings.
This video is unfair. It is a shame that the Novus Ordo is susceptible to this. However, I have seen very nice Novus Ordo masses. Even though I still am not for the Novus Ordo personally since it's an oversimplification of the liturgy, it can still be nice. Thankfully the Latin mass is making a huge comeback in the Roman rite Catholic Church.
ὁ κατέχων Actually the Latin Mass is making a comeback but not a huge one. This present Modernist "pope" hates anything traditional. "Pope" Francis is the embodiment of Vatican II.
ὁ κατέχων Vatican II conservative?? It was a revolution in the Church!!! Ambiguous documents and it completely changed Catholic worship!!! As for "Pope" Francis he hates anything traditional and his actions and words prove that. He puts down tradiational Catholics, he has dismembered the traditional Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate, and wants, through machinations in the so-called "Family Synod" to welcome homosexual couples into the Church.
Thomas Carney Actually, it changed mass very little. It was the 1969 missal which was a complete revolution in the mass. The missal we call the Novus Ordo. Explain how he has put down traditional Catholics. Also, I looked into that Fransiscian thing a while ago. I forgot the exact reason why he does not allow them to do it anymore. But it had nothing to do with him hating the traditional mass. And when did he ever say he wants to welcome homosexual couples? He is obviousley against it. He even said one time that transgenderism is like a nuclear bomb! I suggest you stop being in schism, and join the Church.
Thomas Carney Yes, I realize that. You are misquoting him. He did not say that, he said that we should move into a more modern form. This is merely his opinion. Also, a statement from the FFI, " Many of us-I would hope most of us-Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate, welcome the Holy Father’s intervention into our life and trust fully that Holy Mother Church knows exactly what she is doing, even when the journalists do not. We entrust ourselves to her care, just as we do to the Immaculate." They also stated that what the Pope did was specific to a problem they were having within the FFI. He was not contradicting Benedict. Can you give me links to your other claims which I had not heard about ever.
I live in Chile a mostly catholic country of South America and yes, I have watched ridiculous things in the Holy Mass. Old women singing out of tune cheesy songs, weird dances, and all that. The sad thing is that in Latin America the only apostolic church known here is the catholic, so they say it's the "original, preserved church that Christ founded". It's all they know. They don't know that exist the even more preserved and the only original, the holy Catholic Orthodox church.
+Magda Abdulmasih Well. To be perfectly fair, old women sing out of tune (and loudly) in churches of every confession the world over. You can probably go to some animist chicken sacrifice in the middle of Africa and find an old woman chanting out of tune and out of rhythm.
This is not an unfair comparison. In fact less than 1% of Roman Catholics worldwide attend the old-style Latin Mass. Most Catholics today have never seen the Traditional Latin Mass. Most Catholics, the overwhelming majority, attend the Novus Ordo which is extremely plain, with the priest facing the people like an actor on stage, and the music usually insipid guitar pieces. In contrast, the Orthodox Divine Liturgy is always a solemn occasion, unchanged for the past 17 hundred years, always chanted with sung responses, always with incense, always with the Priest facing in the same direction as the people, ad orientem. The Roman Catholics are always interested in Aggiornamento, which means "updating." The Orthodox prefer traditions that are indeed timeless and beautiful. So it is not biased and it is not unfair. One can easily find similar videos of Roman Catholic Liturgical events very similar to this with the Pope himself participating.
+James Thornton it's unfair because I've never seen kind of things ever. it's like a festival with clowns, etc inside of the temple when a liturgical celebration is going on..... Never ever. I'm from Chile where catholicism is majority and you may find a very simple almost poor liturgy with a couple guitars and chorus and just a priest or even a deacon ...
+James Thornton I not agree. Ok, maybe about(rather than less) 1% attend old-style Latin Mass, but in most greater cities it's available, it's not something, which happened "practicaly never"(like someone could deduce from Your comment). And what more... in my parish(and all in what i was in my country(Poland - whre catholicism is also majority of course)) such thing like in this movie NEVER happened. This doesn't look like catholic mass, it looks rather like protestant parody off mass(this what happened by protestant isn't mass - practicaly they have no priest, no liturgy, and no transubstantiation... in what they even don't belive(as far as I know)). Ok, maybe there are guitars in Novus Ordo Mass, but definitely not allways. In my parish there are 5 mass in Sunday(+1 Saturday in the evening) and the guitars plays only in two of them(or one, I'm not sure about mass at 10.00 a.m). So usually there are no guitars. And im sure, that even if somewhere(this propably was in latin America, acording to this what language i could hear(sound like spanish or something like that)) in the Catholic Church happend such protestant-like pathologies such things also happened in Eastern Orthodox Church. So it should compare pathologic Mass in Catholic and Southern Orthodox Church or normal mass(Novus Ordo or old-style) in both churches. Not pathologic Mass in Catholic Church with normal Mass in Eastern Orthodox Church(if it even was a normal and not extraordinary solemn Mass...). So this video is VERY unfair. It's only need to not be blind to see it.
I am Melkite Catholic, which is Orthodox (lots of tradition), but under the authority of the Pope. I was raised Roman Catholic, though, and I have never seen anything like the spectacle in this film. It really isn't fair. You could have made your point just as well by comparing a formal Orthodox ceremony with, say, a regular Christmas or Easter Mass in the United States. By the way, we all have opinions as to which service we prefer, but which one would Christ really prefer? The old men in funny costumes, separated from the people-- , or the congregation (men, women, and children) clearly having a good time and happy to be there with Him?
ajosephcirene I can't believe some people. Чварков Ђорђе is neither Catholic nor Orthodox because of the way he speaks. Neither Church accepts this behavior and hopefully he can one day see his problems.
So, I laughed at the Brazil video - herein lies part of the problem with the Roman Catholic Mass since the Second Vatican Council. The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass (many western Catholics refer to it these days simply as 'mass', and with a small 'm') is no laughing matter - Christ was not throwing a dinner party, and what the Apostles witnessed hardly gave them cause for celebration. Since those events, the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass evolved continuously in solemnity and beauty. Since the Council, however, it has degenerated into a man-centered sentimental community service. In many Catholic Churches, the priest stands facing the people and with his back to the Tabernacle in which the Blessed Sacrament resides - this is man-centered instead of Christo-centered; in some, the Tabernacle isn't even in the Sanctuary but, tucked away in a corner as if less important than man. In many Catholic Churches they no longer have the 'Bix Six' candles representing other six Sacraments (the Blessed Sacrament is the first). In the Novus Ordo, the congregation no longer watch the priest's actions at the Holy Altar - instead, they are distracted by singing songs. The consequential loss of faith is fueling the catastrophic tide of lapsation. The resurgence of the Usus Antiquior (the old rite, known as the Tridentine Rite) appears to be attracting souls to return. Let us all pray for our shepherds, and for guidance from the Holy Spirit. +
I am Orthodox and I can say that I've been in Catholic Churches and I've heard beautiful services; what happens here in this video is strange and disturbing. The Catholic Church should keep their old ways, which are just as beautiful as the Eastern ones. In Eastern European countries, the Catholic Church is still traditional, just like our Orthodox Church because people would not accept something else and because there are many people going to church, both Churches. But in west, they sing with drums and guitars just to make young people go there ; people should not go for fun but for faith.If they don't want to come to Church, it's their choice but do not make spectacle just to keep them attached.
+Daniela de la Lazuri I am Catholic, and I think you are completely right, friend. But it will not be long before the Tridentine Rite is restored to the Church. God will put an end to this crisis, in the same way He put an end to the Arian heresy and the Great Western Schism. Perhaps then we will be able to be reconciled with our Eastern brothers, no? :)
orthodox the only and true religion with many proves! 'just' go to 'Holy Mount' Athos in Greece........ i'd say a much more but just dont feel like its right time and place to do it...
LOL... I could not stop laughing at the catholic portrayal of the procession of the Bible 😂. I’m still laughing...in 49 years of attending Catholic masses & services I have never seen anything like this before 😅. Where in the world does this take place?! Brazil!? I thought I heard Portuguese. OMG...this is golden! It’s so funny, my sides hurt 😊. Where did you get this footage? What is the name of this church?
It is not something to laugh, but to weep. It happened in my country, Brazil, in the Country's Patroness Basílica, Our Lady Aparecida. Pray for the Church 😢😢😢
@@marcosleaoteodosio5496 I’m so sorry. This obviously causes you pain. I’ve just never seen anything like this before. It just doesn’t seem real. Was this a one time event or does this occur frequently?
We would love to see (and hear) more participation by those "assisting" - Orthodoxy was not meant to be a "spectator" worship! Of course, many have prayers memorised and we cannot judge who is praying and/or not but ...more singing by people would be to return to the "original" way of celebrating!
I am a Roman Catholic and I am appalled at what is depicted here as the practices of the Latin Rite. In my 52 years on this earth I have never ever seen anything this outrageous. It is displays like this that give Catholicism a bad name. The Protestants that have commented here are having a field day. Outrageous, simply outrageous.
votre religion ne vous enseigne t-elle pas la charité chrétienne comme la plus grande des vertus ? Puis je vous rappeler que le démon est aussi appeler "le diviseur" et qu'il cherche tout simplement à diviser les chrétiens. Par ce genre de vidéo vous vous mettez au service de sa cause. Prions les uns pour les autres et regardons avec bienveillance nos différences loin des excès des uns et des autres (comme ici) par amour pour Le Christ Jésus Notre Seigneur.
Why not have an actually Latin Mass instead of the vernacular? It would've been a better comparison because the official liturgy is the Extraordinary form
I thank God every day that I am an Orthodox Christian. Absolutely everything that is experienced in the Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom is filled with the Holy Spirit and is centered on the saving work of Our Lord Jesus Christ. We worship in a deliberate atmosphere of beauty because Our Lord is the very essence of beauty and we can do nothing less. We stand in awe at the glorious mysteries of our faith and we rejoice in them.
No fair, guys. There are tons of other videos from the present day of the Tridentine Latin Mass. You couldn't have picked footage from those instead? I think it'd make a better comparison.
I would like to see a comparison of the Byzantine Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church. I am a member of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church (which is of the Byzantine Rite) and I do not see any difference between Orthodox and Byzantine Catholic.
Yes! you are right no difference. The day you start reading the Holy Bible your eyes will open. You will realize all of you followers of Orthodox and Catholics have been deceived.
Daniel Maldonado you don't know what you're talking about. Many of the traditions are even older than the Bible. Who do you think wrote it? Your anti-catholic, anti- orthodox shtick is old & tired. Grow up.
Read the Bible if you have one. If not you should definitely buy one. Exodus 20: 4, 5 (Idolatry) Praying for the dead, infant baptism, confessing your sins to a priest, Praying to Mary, Mary the mediator to God, bowing down to Mary and icons, Praying to saints, calling a priest father, etc. All of those believes are forbidden by our Lord.
We have no idols. You are misinformed, angry, and boring. You were raised to be a fundamentalist, literalist, arrogant bore. I don't blame you however. It's a rather long tradition itself now. None of it bothers me. I didn't choose to return to the Church. The Lord led me back here for His own reasons. You don't need to understand it, like it, or agree. But your demonic conspiracy theories are insane.
Cannot deny that these things have happened in the west. Hopefully this video will open some people's eyes to how bad the abuses really are. Now, it would be terrific if you were to show the best you can find of Latin-rite services so people can have a comparison of how beautiful each liturgy really should and can be.
@@ryanl5817So it would appear, at the moment. But the FSSP (where most of the movement is going on) is VERY robust, and I am hearing reports that many dioceses are still allowing Latin Masses to quietly continue. Time will tell what God has in store for the Church's liturgy.
Hahahah because the video is just a lie😂 This is the real catholic liturgy ruclips.net/video/zcOTkbhlEIg/видео.html ruclips.net/video/KJ9DZgo4bBM/видео.html
The video is a giant logical fallacy. You cannot judge a faith based on a liturgy that is really not representative of the catholic liturgy. There may be some sort of difference in liturgical rites in some countries but it is too specific to represent the catholic liturgy as a whole. This kind of specificity is never generalizable. Even in research methodology, the kind of sampling used here is biased sampling. Why not choose the liturgical rites at the Vatican City instead?
Ryan James Gaspar I agree , they chose the worst example of liturgy , I am Brazilian and see, for example the liturgy of the Mass at the Monastery of São Bento in São Paulo would see as the liturgy is well made.
the catholic church is dealing with a lot of problems today, but there are a lot of underground true catholics that secretly run the protestant headed dildos. currently we have an agenda to make the non-faithful baptised leave the church out of anger and then rebuild from the little faithful. mind you, when I say little, I would like to emphasize that there are enough of us to make an impact. The things that resemble protestantism are not truly catholic, and they will be soon ridden out.
Jonathan Robbins Since the Council of Trent and especially with the new Code of Canon Law signed by JPII in the 1980s, more power than ever before has been put in the papacy. The Faithful...many are confused, even more LOVE the NO as a form of entertainment with the no-requirements pseudo-Catholic Church we have today.... it's going to take a non-Modernist pope with BALLS to fix the problems....we have not had a pope with REAL BALLS since Pope St. Pius X.
and many catholics, real catholics would agree, but at the time being, I have my reasons to be faithful to St. Peters chair, and I have faith that the holy spirit will guide the next pope to bring back the ways of old.
Jonathan Robbins What if the Cardinals DO NOT listen the Holy Spirit?? That happened in the election of Pope Alexander VI, who literally bribed his way into the papacy with his harem and illegitimate children!!! The camerlengo of that election said, "Let us dispense with the Prayers to the Holy Spirit because we already know who the next pope is going to be." This is documented. Tell me the Cardinals are going to listen.
I was going to say that, to be fair, you would need to compare similar services from the same culture. Say, RC in Greece compared to Orthodox in Greece, and both, say, a hierarchical liturgy for Holy Thursday. Then I saw that....thing.....in the RC service. I was raised RC, kind of remember the Mass in Latin. Fully as reverent and inspiring as the Orthodox Liturgy (should be, since both are the Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom).
I am Catholic and I am soo shameful that the Bible was venerated this way ,but this does not happen in india ,here we give respect and venerate it as holy as Orthodox do by spreading insence, bowing do before we read it and all other rituals
I understand that the Catholic mass here portrayed is not the usual Catholic mass but , the very fact that those stuff happened in a Catholic church itself is ... a disgrace
As a Christian that attends Catholic Church for over 25+ years. I've never seen anything of this in mass. Especially at 5:35 time stamp. I'm literally mind-blown and surprised to see this. I'm watching this and thinking "what am I watching?!"
Exactly, from my experience, every catholic mass is always very strict. The Same boring strict liturgy. I haven't seen a circus freak show like the one in this video.
As a life-long Catholic I have to admit I am very embarrassed by this mass, in particular the 'gospel procession' part. I presume the circus music was not part of the actual church service, but even without it the "procession" was embarrassing and inappropriate. We have definitely gone wrong somewhere when this codology is taking place in the Catholic Church, even if it is in a Spanish speaking culture.
We Reformed Protestants don't have processions with the Bible like the Roman Catholic Church or Eastern Orthodox Church. We don't encrust it with gold, bow to it, cover it with incense, lower candles before it, have vestment-wearing clergy stand around it. But we do read our Bible and obey what it says.
Regarding the Divine Liturgy according to Metropolitan Kallistos Ware, ".....the whole text of each service is shot through with Biblical language, and it has been calculated that the Liturgy contains 98 quotations from the Old Testament and 114 from the New." How much of your Reformed Protestant service is actually taken from the Bible, versus just your arrogant pastor spewing self-generated heresy from the pulpit?
IAWC - Support Persecuted Christians By the way, I'm sorry if that came off as a bit vitriolic, I am just really sick of ignorant Protestants calling us heretics, while not lifting a finger to help their Christian brothers and sisters in Syria who are being killed daily. Do you even pray for them?
IAWC - Support Persecuted Christians Don't worry about the vitriol. I take a deeply active concern regarding persecuted brethren in other parts of the world. One of the chief charities to which I donate is Voices of the Martyrs, which aims to support Christian communities that are under serious attack. I would urge anyone concerned about the plight of the persecuted church to donate to this charity. They do good work. And certainly pray for these communities. But go further and place resources on the line for them as well. In regards to our worship, ours is essentially a ceaseless recitation of the scriptures; hymns and psalms obviously based on scripture; exhortations from the scriptures; and a sermon that exposits and proclaims the scriptures. It's very hard to argue that we orthodox Protestants somehow fall short on the scripture stakes, given that it is our "thing": heeding the words of God alone. Even some eminent Catholics will acknowledge our commitment and reverence to the word of God.
jlandles Note that Jesus Christ is actually the Word of God, according to John chapter 1. If the Bible is also the Word of God, then each Bible is literally a manifestation of Jesus, similiar to the Guru Granth Sahab of Sikism, which would make the manner in which many protestants carry about the Bible in the liturgy rather impious, to say the least. However, I think its more accurate to say that the Bible is the valid Testament of God, pointing to the Word, but not in itself the Word, which is Christ. We Orthodox in our worship also ceaselessly recite scripture. The entire psalter is read through every two weeks; in Lent, it is read through weakly in the course of the daily Hours. The hours together with the liturgy contain a robust cycle of scripture references. Now regarding your Protestant church, are you using the Three Year Revised Common Lectionary? Interestingly enough, that was actually based on the lectionary introduced in the Roman Catholic church in 1969 with the Novus Ordo Mass. In the Orthodox church we do not use that however, rather, we use a much older lectionary that reads through in a single year. We don't get through the Bible in its entirety in the church, but that's alright, as each service's lections are designed to convey the theological message for that particular day. The lectionary also contains readings for each day of the week, and not just Sunday. In the actual church services, the Gospel Book which you see us venerating in the above video is arranged according to the Lections, so for each liturgy, the priest reads the appointed Gospel, and then simply moves the bookmark as needed for the next service. Many of these Gospel books are incredibly old. In addition to the main Epistle and Gospel readings in the Divine Liturgy (the service of Holy Communion), and the antiphons, a few other readings of special form are interspersed, for example, the Prokeimenon, which is a single verse of scripture used to set the theme for the Epistle and Gospel reading that follow. This is functionally similar to a Collect, only its taken directly from scripture, as opposed to being a written prayer.
IAWC - Support Persecuted Christians I am uninterested in a protracted debate, but I would point out that your statement that the Word made flesh (Christ) somehow nullifies the Bible being the "word of God" is not how the Bible itself refers to scripture, or how the apostolic writers speak of scripture. With all respect, this is one of the frustrations in dialoguing with people who belong to traditionalist churches; they simply do not know their scriptures well enough to have a detailed discussion about it. Paul tells the Corinthians that they do not "peddle the word of God" for profit (2 Cor 2:17); that they present "the word of God in its fullness" (Col 1:25); and he commands us to take up the "Sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God" (Ephesians 6:17). To these three references, I could add about 20 others from across the letters, including from the letters of Peter. If a person must take a position that would undercut the apostolic writers themselves, then might I suggest it's not a very good argument? In relation to lectionaries and the rest of the issues you refer to, you are evidently proud of your church, its rituals and rites, its traditions and practices. But we orthodox Protestants have simple worship. We worship as closely as possible to that of the New Testament Christians, with simple singing of biblical hymns, preaching, and fellowship. For us, worship is about glimpsing the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ, which outshines all the gold and incense in the world. Gold, complex calendars and rituals (to our mind) is the externalising of worship, which is what inevitably happens when there is no regeneration of the heart. Because true heart worship cannot happen (since the heart remains dead), worship must be exported into the outside world of the tangible. Perhaps for this reason I have often heard Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox express great pride in their church, but I have never once heard either express pride and affection for the Most High Jesus Christ and joy in their salvation - unless first prompted. Always, in my experience, a R.C. or E.O. will glory first in their church, not in Christ Jesus.
sakor88 You should stay in the Church for the truth and for salvation of your immortal soul, not leave it over liturgical issues. Anyway, you can be Catholic of Greek Rite (like I am) and enjoy both beautiful liturgy and the truth.
+standev1 What kind of an infallible "Vicar of Christ" would have allowed all of the post VII nonsense? Liturgical matters are not peripheral -- "lex orandi lex credendi est." And what kind of Pope would allow this stuff? It is right there on video recording -- and I've heard of many such examples.
I understand people having different styles of music and worship and all, but don't you think making a church service indistinguishable from a carnival might be overdoing it?
very unfair comparison, I've never witnessed masses as bad as these. It would be more fair if you compared with the Tridentine mass, Papal mass, or with another liturgy unique to Catholicism such as a Maronite liturgy or Syriac. I've seen some beautiful Novus Ordo masses and bad ones but none this bad. I wish the Orthodox had the kind of worship diversity that Catholics have, the Orthodox restrict themselves to Byzantine Rite only while Catholics have about 23 different liturgical rites and traditions, how sad.
Orthodox do have more rights than just Byzantine, Byzantine rite is the main rite, just like Roman rite is main in the Vatican Church. Orthodox have revived the Liturgy of pope st Gregory the Great. Orthodox Church is working hard to revive Celtic and Galitic Liturgies Rome and Anglicans destroyed. Orthodox have not tried to impose union on some monophysite sects, so because of that Orthodox don't have many as 23 rights. Maronite Liturgy is shame of Rome, it was completely destroyed and Latinized by Rome, and it was once authentic Liturgy. Plus, it is not unfair comparison, it is Rome's fault that bishops and even cardinals are celebrating such Liturgical abuse. Video shows that Liturgy is a play thing for many Roman-Catholics, and in Orthodoxy Liturgy is gift from God, that is why it is called Divine.
Celtic and Gallican rites are just variations of the Roman Rite such as the Mozarabic, Sarum, and Ambrosian, very similar. The Maronite liturgy is beautiful and very unique because it has been blended with the Latin Rite, the East meets the West in the Mozarabic liturgy. I agree it's shameful liturgies that happen but there are just as many beauties and reforms are slowly being made to rectify the chaos Vatican 2 caused. I know the Orthodox don't understand this because they never hold Ecumenical councils but after every council there is always a great upheaval that takes many years to sort out.
Unity does not necessarily mean uniformity. The Maronites are not monothelites now and they will argue that they never were. Also John I can understand, I've been to "western" Orthodox churches that have Byzantine influenced Latin liturgies. Hopefully all Catholic churches will renew their liturgical traditions in time, we are already seeing great progress. We just have to keep in mind that different people benefit from different worship styles, and liturgy is not a one size fits all spiritualitys.
We orthodoxs should not interphere with the poor unbaptised pope slaves. We should not even greet them at all,not even a word. The only thing we can do is to pray for them to return to the mother church and save their souls,or else they are doomed. Hard but thats the truth,God bless all.
***** Read what our fathers say about how to treat heretics and then talk. Its our duty to avoid them,love them and pray for them but avoid them. Love is not always behind kindness but also on things that seem rude to others.
***** Unbaptised people cant be saved,or else it would not matter to follow orthodoxy. Lets get serious,no orthodox people will be saved,we pray everyday for them to return to one and only Holy Catholic Church which only orthodoxs follow.
Vasilios one passage from the bible is enough to destroy your hateful comment And you know the passage I'm talking about "love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you"
+tactical “assault” plunger Love my enemies,but not love herecies. Pray for heretics to return to Jesus,because with Pope are with the devil. Simple as that
Let's not forget that Apostle Peter firstly established Patriarchate of Antioch, then he moved to Rome and established Patriarchate of Rome. Arch-heretic pope claims his heresy and primacy because he is successor of Apostle Peter, well Patriarch of Antioch is also successor of Apostle Peter, but Patriarch of Antioch never claims primacy or any other kind of satanic arrogance. Antioch remained Orthodox, while Rome has fallen in to heresy, and is slowly turning in to this in this video. The only reason why Rome was proclaimed to be FIRST AMONG EQUAL, is because Rome was capital of Roman Empire. That is why Constantinople was second, because Constantinople was second capital of Roman Empire. With the Roman Patriarch as Orthodox center gone, Constantinople is FIRST AMONG EQUAL now, and it will remain so until Rome returns to Orthodoxy. But i doubt Rome wants to return, all what Rome does is ruining Christianity, after all, 40 000 Protestant sects exist because of Rome's corruption and heresy. Rome's faults created Protestantism, which made Christian world almost impossible to unite under One True Apostolic Universal Church (Orthodox).
Calvinism is a sect and heresy, just like all other Protestant dominations. Protestantism is logical conclusion of the Roman fall. The Truth rests in the Orthodox Church, as this video clearly shows.
***** You must have take too much LSD. John Calvin invented Calvinism. It was based upon a lot of faulty logic and the work of Thomas Aquinas. Thomas Aquinas work was the project of even faultier logic and the work of Augustine of Hippo. Augustine of Hippo was working with a very poorly translated of version of the Scripture. So, basically Calvinism is the product of poor logic and a poorly translated Scripture. Since John Calvin was not born until 1509, it would be impossible for the Early Fathers of the Church to have been Calvinist unless they also had a time machine. If you learned any of this nonsense at any sort of an institution of higher learning, I strongly suggest you apply for a refund, as you really got taken. lol
***** So, the early Church Fathers had some sort of time machine? They traveled forward in time to the Reformation, met with John Calvin, learned of Calvin's vile heresy and used their time machine to travel back to the time of the Early Church? You are a crazy person, Calvinismls. You are just plain insane.
As some people wrote, this video is not obejective, because it does a comparaison between a old tradition and a new rite created after the Vatican II Concile. This is not the real latin Church tradition. The real Tradition for the latin Church is the St Pius V liturgy, this liturgy were used by the Church for hundreds of years, some parts of this liturgy is from the apostolic tradition. There is still some communities in the Church using this liturgy like the FSSP, ICRSP and the FSSPX. Of course the Byzantine rite uses by the Greeks and the Russians is beautiful, but they are missing one thing, they are not attach the the head of the Church, the successor of St Peter, established by the Christ himself.
Roman Catholic Truth Oh, yes! Vatican II sect! Vatican I sect! Council of Trent sect! Council of Florence sect! It is so funny the way the Roman Catholics keep dreaming up new heresies. We would have more respect for them of they would just admit that they were club, like the Masons, and not a real religion that could help people actually get to Heaven.
Prince Lazar You are being deceived by Satan. There is no salvation outside of Christ. You deny this dogmatic teaching by calling the Catholic Church pagan, repent.
Very biased portrayal of the Church (Catholic) - to be completely honest, the Orthodox priests in their ridiculous finery and jeweled hats speaks less of dignity and holiness than it does a rather unbecoming opulence.
Damn straight! The catholic priests have simple robes they can slip off easily when they r around little children unlike the Orthodox priests "in their ridiculous finery and jeweled hats" :-P
There's a longer video that shows a more balanced comparison, although the Orthodox point here is that this kind of liturgical abuse has sadly become de rigeur in the Catholic church, but is unknown in Orthodoxy. I agree that Paedophilia is no laughing matter, and 11AlphaHOA's remark was a cheap shot. That said, the Eastern Orthodox, and the Eastern Catholics, have married priests, and have not experienced the problems of abuse peculiar to the Western Rite. I think a case could be made for allowing secular clergy to marry, while working to increase the number of vocations to the Religious orders, such as the Canons Regular, the Franciscan and Dominican friars, the Oratorians, and so on.
IAWC - Support Persecuted Christians This is bogus too - where are your comparative statistics? "peculiar to the Western Rite"? Oh, you mean the largest denomination of Christians on the planet. Eastern Orthodox teaching on divorce is alone so completely suspect and utterly heretical that I really can't image there being much leeway here, even though the Church has bent over backwards trying to work for reconciliation. Which is not to mention the endemic racism that characterises Orthodox churches.
Pete Farrugia The Eastern Catholics allow clerical marriage, except in North America. I think this is a valid practice that should be implemented in the Latin Rite. Note that I myself am ethnically Swedish, and was received into the Syriac Orthodox church; I am the only non-Syriac member of the parish, but the enthusiasm and hospitality with which I was welcomed brought tears to my eyes. Your mileage may vary, depending on the Orthodox church in question, but know that Ethnophyletism, the idea that people of different ethnicity should worship in different churches, was condemned by a pan Orthodox council in the 1890s. There are also many "ethnic" Roman Catholic churches in the United States that are dominated by Poles, or Irish, or other ethnic groups, and I have read reports of people of different ethnicities being made to feel uncomfortable there. Racism sadly exists in every church, and both the Orthodox Church and the Roman Catholic Church, along with nearly all Protestant churches, have officially condemned it.
Angels skating to circus music at 5:48?! I'm sorry, but that is undignified, not worthy of the solemn occasion. I'm glad they don't have that at St. Patricks Cathedral in NYC.
Somebody already pointed out that the video belongs to a Brazilian folkloric celebration of the Virgin Mary 'Senhora Aparecida' That circus production was probably one of a kind will not be seen again even in Brazil. Think of the logistics to put on such a show. It´s like a Broadway musical! It is quite dishonest (and un-Christian) to present that video as typical of a Catholic mass.
tinaine1 The new mass is not Catholic. You'd be surprised to see all the abuses that people who celebrate the new mass commit. "By their fruits you shall know them." (Matthew 7:16)
tinaine1 Are you kidding? Across the US, you can find variously themed moronic "masses" being done in many dioceses. Polka masses, dance masses, fairy masses, clown masses, many of which are centered on youth and activities to "suck in" and deceive/desensitize younger generations as to hide what true Tridentine (original) Catholic Masses and worships must be.
If your referring to the phony Novus Ordo Mess, extolled by the heretical apostate antipope Francis the Fraud, who himself is not even a Christian, let alone Catholic, then your participating, in the words of that great musical group Styx, truly a "grand delusion".
Oh my gosh, I just found the original video of that circus mass. Novena Solene | Entrada da Bíblia - 3º dia - dia 05 de Outubro de 2012 I thought the video maker inserted that circus music!
GuineaPigDan this Mass was World Youth Day 2013. The accompaniment was March of the Gladiators and from what I understand from a Brazilian friend of mine the song has a very different connotation there than it does here.
Is that allowed?
It is impossible that the music is like this in that catholic mass it is prohibited by the Vatican to use circus music in it and why is there no crozier held by the bishop
Guineapigdon - you can now go to your wash places to contemplate about the next item called guineadog.
Margarito Trevino It's not only the circus song... It's also that procession with the caroussel, that weird structure with people swinging on it, the roller blading angels... so sad.... the Church does not recongnize sacred anymore.
I'm a Catholic here in the Philippines
and it's more better to attend a mass here in my country because the churches here still follows the traditions way back to the spanish era
and it's more peaceful and sacred.
Join ark of salvation orthodoxy!
Reason why catholic church illegimate:
1.why theres is god like leader?
Why they don’t accept christ as leader but pontiff?
2.its not agreed that rome is sovergin by ecumenical council.
3.all bishops must be equal,theres no leader like main bishop.
@@GreekOrthodoxChurchRblx Jesus left Saint Peter in charge
@@RS-tp3uu no god always leader
St.peter didn’t left him
@@GreekOrthodoxChurchRblx actually say with the original church
@@GreekOrthodoxChurchRblx some Catholic chirches oare more traditional
I am Orthodox and I know that a typical Catholic mass is not like the one portrayed in this video... The Orthodox liturgy here is a hierarchal service. Though the Orthodox liturgy is quite beautiful , this is not a typical service...Let's be kind to our Roman Catholics please.
To be fair, the Catholic mass shown here is also hierarchical. It's taking place in the second-largest Catholic basilica in the world.
But yes, it's far from typical. Although, I always found perfectly ordinary masses shocking enough, with sufficient abuses to embarrass any Orthodox.
Keri Grandalski 💖💖
Dont be judgemental. You dont know whole Orthodox liturgies.
Thank you for standing up for a true Mass of all time.
IMO the Traditional Latin Mass is by far the most beautiful form of worship.
I'm Eastern Orthodox and I know that isn't what the Catholic Church looks like.
The guys should've took a video from Vatican or other basilicas churches
But the fact that it's possible says a lot.
Nice to see someone who does
@Bloreen Kobux all Eastern Churchs used to be Catholic
@Bloreen Kobux the Lantin mass is a better representation Catholic theology , and Cathilic tradition. The new mass is a simplified version , and can be said well with reverence, unfortunately we find to often liturgical abuses creep in to the new mass , more or less depending on the parish. I'm one of many Catholics who are heart broken over this . I pray for the Bishops to correct these problems.
You compared absolutely typical Orthodox service with an absolutely not typical Catholic service, and it is not nice on your behalf.
Except there is NO Orthodox service to compare with that.
In every orthodox church its typical
Yes and that was not an entrance,it was a procession after the mass so they were wishing everyone and tell bye ,and at the end they made it look as if it was a procession
this is chatolic church singing in Croatia... ruclips.net/video/L9GJtf-Dkmg/видео.html
StratKruzer No, there are examples to be found in liberal parts of the Orthodox world
5:35 Looks more like Rio's Carnival than a Bible Procession. I've never seen anything like it at Catholic Cathedral.
The Gospel on a circus Ladder and people swinging around it. I think they have crossed the limits.
That's because it's NOT Catholic. This liar uses a Vatican II, heretical "mass"
@@wes6363 uh Vatican II Novus Ordo is a valid Catholic Mass. You must be a Latin schismatic?
Steven Wright - No, I avoided the schism by retaining the Catholic faith.
Steven Wright - I don't like to spit in the face of Christ, so i don't attend Vatican II anti mass
I am a Roman Catholic and I must say that this is not the true catholic divine liturgy, but a liturgical abuse. Unfortunately, it happens more frequently than we would like. But liturgical rules, if correctly and faithfully followed, would produce a ceremony very different than this one showed in this video.
And it is totally unfair with priests faithfull to the liturgy as prescripted by the Catholic Church to show this video as if this abomination were happening in all catholic temples. I am a testimony that it is not.
I truly respect Orthodox Church.
However, things showed in this video in comparison to Orthodox Ceremony do NOT happen in Catholic Church.
Please share the truth insead of falsehood and at least go see the Catholic Ceremony prior to putting your beliefs in public.
Oh orthodox priest have sin they are able to marry but chatolic priest doesntandnit was said by the bible that you shouldn't. Compare me to a person serve only me forever and ever
Obviously these things DO happen in Catholic churches.
@@henzlarry8965 that's Donatism (a condemned heresy) and forcing priests to be cellibate is a western innovation.
As we say in french : "comparaison n'est pas raison". Orthodox chistianity isn't just russian (and specially this one, the one of Moscow's Patriarchate...) and Catholicism isn't only this brazilian show. ;-)
The difference is that you see these pathetic shows in every continent of the Earth in the Papist World. You don't see that in Russia, nor in Jerusalem, Georgia, Serbia, etc...
What do papist want ? To go on ruling what they consider beeing their world. What do the New Evangelical churches want ? Make money and end with the Papist power. Do you think some Orthodox Churches aren't looking for gold and power too ? Sorry, but about some o'them, I don't think they just seek for purity and holiness...
@@alentejaneiro They are all human institutions and as such will all have flaws and scandals.
@@alentejaneiro our Church isn't a house of cards unlike the papacy
@@0hhtecMusicianTheNotecianHero That’s because it toppled centuries ago.
Thank you fore posting. I am a Roman Catholic who attended Orthodox Masses while on St George Island, Alaska. I was truly impressed with the Clergy and also my fellow worshippers.
I'm catholic but I've never seen like this before .
+John Smith That are video from the charismatic group here from Brazil.
Now you see wierd things happening in your Church
Unbelievable
I am Orthodox , and the mass show here is unfair because it is a daft charismatic guitar mass in central or South America. But even the Tridentine mass pales to The Divine Liturgy . Also this is a Hierarchal Liturgy .
orthodoxs and catholics we are all brothers in our lord Jesus Christ!!! God bless all of you !!!
amen
never say this anymore as orthodox i say that catholic are not christian and it is heresy
+Giorgi Amiranashviliil I'm catholic , I love God
true
orthodox real cristian and true way catholick is nothing
+Giorgi Amiranashvili,the
Creed your talking about is NOT written in bible.Its man made,not god made.
Simply gorgeous. The Orthodox Mass leaves me yearning for the Face of God Creator/Redeemer...
Thank you for posting.
Catholics have Eastern rites too
This is obviously a very biased, unfair comparison. The Catholic Church has very beautiful liturgical rites, some basically identical as the ones celebrated by the Orthodox.
There has been a lot of liturgical negligence here and there, unfortunately, sure, but that doesn't take away from the fact that we also celebrate the Divine Liturgy (Mass) in ways that are unique and extremely beautiful.
Чварков Ђорђе - Well, you can either show where Rome supports liturgical abuses like these or else just look like a person of a big mouth and no idea of what he's saying.
***** - Sure.
Juan Salinas Rome supports it by not excommunicating the bishops who perform these abuses.
Чварков Ђорђе - I can only let the responsible men (even if among them are the Pope and bishops) give account to God for their way of serving Him.
You are being very judgemental and are committing the mistake of generalizing.
+Чварков Ђорђе The issue is that he compared an Orthodox Liturgy to a Catholic service, not a Mass, and that's the obvious clear part about it. That "Gospel procession" never took place during a Mass.
Secondly, if you read Vatican 2 documents and the Mass liturgy, then you'd actually realize that Cardinals and Bishops do not support or encourage a Mass like this.
Thirdly, devotions to God are not lame in any light. Regardless of what religion this is, criticizing someone's worship of God is childish
"Children of God,all one family".How can such a video help to promote unity and true Christianity?
To make a real comparison you should compare the orthodox with The Catholic Church in Rome, because in Brazil we live in a situation that our bishops doesn't quite obey Rome, culminating in stuff like that.
ruclips.net/video/GFQwfDcdtY4/видео.html
Lara 1 Nah, clown masses are valid in Papism.
@@TheRealRealOK The fact that you call it papism, and not Catholicism shows your bias. Only those who hate the church and will do anything to slander it call it papism. Use real terms, I’m not calling Orthodoxy “patriarchism”.
@@Brother_Piner it is papism, since you follow the pope
I am an italian Catholic Cristian, and I have something to say about that.
This video isn't objective at all: you are trying to manipulate the public. You are comparing the liturgy and worship of an Orthodox Church with the one of a veeery weird brazilian Church. European Catholics would find blasphemous and extremely inappropriate this wild cerimony, so it's unfair to portray a faith of Millions people with a ridiculous collage. For sure you have never seen a Catholic worship.
Plus, you should be ashamed as a Christian for incite hatred, rather than find and promote the common points between our Churches.
Greetings
***** I can give you my own explanation, even if I'm not a theologian or an historian. Catholicism as well as Christianity is a global widespread religion, so during centuries, it adapted to the local cultures. For this reason you can find multiple and different versions of Catholicism. Maybe in that area of Brazil, people are very festive or fun-loving, so they created a carnival-like Liturgy.
Of course I'm horrified, but what do you expect, an intervention of the Inquisition, or an excommunication?
By the way I think it's completely ignorant to compare a little crazy situation with the Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, which is a much more bigger reality.
I have attended many Orthodox ceremonies, and I have never felt any distance or discrimination. How many of you can say to have experienced the different?
Happy Catholic Christmas, and to the Orthodox friends, we will celebrate the January 7th :)
I would agree that the intent of this posting is unfair.
Chiara: I have seen garbage like this in American Catholic Churches.
Thomas Carney
Not in U.S. Churches.
Allie S: try Milwaukee WI with "Liturgical Dance" under Weakland. Clown Masses all over the nation. "Buddhist" Masses in New Mexico. I have seen it here in the USA.
Having been raised Catholic as a child but returning back to my Orthodox Christian roots, I cannot deny the deep reverence, respect and power that comes out from an Orthodox liturgy compared with a Catholic mass. You certainly see that the Orthodox Church has kept all its traditions with great pride, whereas most of the Catholic Church has modernised quite alot of itself to remain 'popular' with changing times. I also find that people of the Orthodox faith tend to fast and really uphold their beliefs alot more than Catholics in general. I am not saying that one is better than the other, they are both Apostolic Churches and I deeply respect both.
hahaha... I'm Brazilian and this is here next to where I live... but you put this was so unfair with this... you change the song in it.... it is Our Lady of Aparecida Sanctuary.... and this maybe have happened in 12 October... our Lady day and children's day in Brazil too... so please... be honest when you try to do a video... now I have a total different vision of Orthodox folks... I used to think that you are serious but after it I just have too thanks God for being Roman Catholic by Jesus and His Mother and Mine! have peace...
Man, take it easy. This video is just a joke (not very good one) on the Internet.
With love and respect, Greek Orthodox
Regardless of which song he used what happens after minute 5 is not normal and does not belong in any church
Delta De Venus OK... 1st: This children dressed like angels and the other stuff are NOT common.. This is the first time I see something like it.
2nd: like I said before, in Brazil Our Lady's day is 12nd October and the children's day is 12nd October too.. and 3rd: yeah! that was just the Bible entering... I mean, maybe they tried to do something theatrical there... why not? why not just a time? as I said, I never see something like that in masses from here, maybe in that day they did it. So comparing one random footage and pretending that in ALL CATHOLIC MASSES this happens is kind of shameful :) so as you said: Jesus Christ! And I keep on the church that Christ himself created! Have a nice day and a (late) merry Christmas ;)
@Danilo ramos
Well, yes it is unfair to manipulate videos in such way, I agree. But also would not be fair to think because one minor kid who make this video to think all orthodoxian are like him. Your statement "thanks god for being Roman Catholic" makes you look arrogant and superior over your sisters and brothers in Christ. Do you don't think so? Sometimes I see the behavior of christians then I think christians are not much better than muslims. This would be very sad.
However, take care and may you have a good life!
Danilo Ramos no the song is unchanged and please read the description of the video
I am chatolic but I never seen the mass like in this video. What mass is that? In what chruch?
I have never seen the Holy Mass celebrated like that.It is time the message of Our Lord.the message of love and reconciliation,is what really matters,not comparisons in practice.God is love!.
The Orthodox liturgy was truly beautiful! To be in the presence of God is awe inspiring!
i watched up to 1:31 and then realise you aren't interested in a general comparison... just anti-catholic anti-anything not orthodox. you chose the most solemn patriarchal entrance, but the most relaxed archbishopric entrance. thanks for increasing the gap in christian unity.
thedoctorplusone Not sure who your post was meant for but I totally agree with you on everything you said and you said it well.
To all those who say we need to be fair to our Roman Catholic friends I agree. However, several points are needed to be made about this comparison. Is it showing some of the worst of Catholic liturgy? Yes. Is the Hierarchical Divine Liturgy something that happens often? No. But as many have made mention, the Mass we saw here is also technically Hierarchical, in a sense it is a Pontifical Mass so it is a one for one comparison. Moreover, the real issue this video is highlighting, which everyone who is butt hurt in the comment section is only further proving, is that there is a HUGE problem with a faith communion that allows any basilica to put on such a scandalous and shameful liturgy as the one we were subjected to. If you're mad about this as a Catholic, don't be mad that this happens almost never, and this video is making an unfair comparison, be mad that your church allows this kind of liturgy to happen with little to no repercussions. As a recent convert to Orthodoxy, it only further reifies why we must *jealously* guard the Liturgy, because once changes are made and we let things slide, it can lead to these disasters, we lose our identity, and we make a mockery of worship to God.
You could have chosen a proper Pontifical High Mass in the Tridentine Rite as your Catholic example instead of that circus show.
Such Circus show is Roman chatholic church in Brasil that forbid tridentina rite
@@TheUlrixHe took some of the worst examples of catholicism practices that is in Brasil (again)...
Most of catholic masses are a circus show, every local Catholic Church I go to is like this
@@kaizarchan hmm lets see what is taking place in rome, oh whats that? pope francis places an idol on the altar? interesting
May our Sovereign God gives us divine wisdom, grace and true repentance!
As an American Roman Catholic and an attendee of Mass in both the ordinary (Novus Ordo) and extraordinary (Latin/Traditional) forms (and several Orthodox Masses of family/friends of the Greek and Ukrainian Rite...), I find this portrayal of Catholicism in particular to be appalling and grossly misleading. In my 30+ years attending thousands of Masses in many US states, Canada and many Catholic churches in several European countries as well as one in China when I taught there, I have NEVER attended a Catholic Mass conducted in such a way! This video does NOT in any way that I have ever experienced depict the actual and true liturgical practices that takes place in a Catholic church... Anyone who watches this video, please take note it was created in a very purposefully biased way. To accurately understand and witness the common "liturgical practices" of either the Orthodox or Catholic church, go to a Mass at each church on your own and talk with the parishioners (laity), religious (sisters, brothers, deacons and priests. Relying on such a faux perception as this is highly misleading and manipulative. Praying for 'theomimesis' who chose to do this...
I'm Orthodox and I will admit that this is a poor comparison. An accurate comparison would have been a Russian Orthodox Patriarchal liturgy at Christ the Savior in Moscow with a Papal mass as St. Peter's in Rome.
TDZ Exactly.
I am A Orthodox myself with Serbian background. I've attended a few Catholic masses and I must say that sadly The Catholic Church has lost its way. From 1052 you have lost your way of the teachings due to power and greed. Europe once had four popes at the same time vying for power. Since then it has been a steady decline to a point where it is a joke. You Catholics need to get back to the true teachings of the apostolic church or leave her and come back to the one and true apostolic church which is Orthodoxy. Just my thoughts. May God guide you back to the original church, Amen.
Orthodox or catholics same difference. They both practice IDOLATRY, and follow human traditions that are not Biblical. There is only one Leader of the Church and that is Our Lord Jesus Christ, and not some human performing satanic rituals. (Hebrews 4:14, 15)
Dalia Thompson The Orthodox are not idolaters. Idolatry is specifically condemned by the Seventh Ecumenical Council. If anyone at an Orthodox church dares to attribute to an icon or a saint the worship due to God alone, they are anathema (excommunicated and accursed). Indeed the Greek word eikon differs from the word eidol, in that an idol is an image that is to be worshipped, whereas an eikon is any representational art (think about the icons on your iPhone or your PC and you get the idea).
Historically, the Jews themselves used images in worship, and like the Orthodox, did not worship them, but venerated them, the most prominent examples being the sculpted Cherubim on the Ark of the Covenant, and the rich iconography excavated at various ancient Jewish synagogues, such as at Dura Europos in Syria. The idea that any use of imagery whatsoever is idolatry is of Islamic origin; the Byzantine Emperor attempted to ban icons in order to make a peace gesture to the Muslims, which failed, and the Seventh Ecumenical Council condemned him and the iconoclasts as heretics; at the same time, there were idolaters in the church as well, who did worship the icons, and did things like scratch off bits of paint and mix it in with the Communion wine, and they were also anathematized.
Martin Luther, most Anglicans since the 19th century, and indeed most Protestants share our views on this subject. Protestants tend to use stained glass windows as iconography; Roman Catholics prefer statues, and we prefer paintings, but the effect is the same: to represent on Earth the heavenly realm above. That this is permissible is because the incarnate Word became Man, Jesus Christ, and thus to reject icons is to reject the reality of the Incarnation, for men did see God the Word, the Son of God, Jesus Christ, with their eyes.
God COMMANDED the use of images for HIS glory only. He never said anything about making images of Mary or dead people and then worshiping them. You Catholics and Orthodox go around your church making out with your heretical "icons." Repent and believe in the true God. You only need to seek salvation in Jesus Christ and accept Him as your personal Lord ans Savior. Idolatry is condemned in the Bible and in the 10 commandments. You only need to repent and accept Jesus as your savior and Lord. It matters not how much you kiss and make out with your idols but you will never find salvation in them. Salvation is only found in Jesus Christ ALONE.
Dalia Thompson As I said in my previous post, we do NOT worship any icons, even those icons of Jesus Christ; worship is due ONLY to God the Holy Trinity. Anyone who worships an icon in the Orthodox church is subject to excommunication. We venerate icons of our saints in the same manner you venerate photographs you may have of your deceased relatives, but we do not worship them. We ask for their prayers, along with the prayers of the living, but we do not pray to them, and we do not believe they have the power to answer our prayers, only to pray for us, as they are members of the Church Triumphant, and they can pray, just as members of the Church Militant can on Earth. Anyone who worships a saint, or who worships an icon, even an icon of Jesus Christ, is anathema.
IAWC - Support Persecuted Christians Lastly the Orthodox Church entirely agrees that salvation is found through Christ alone, and that Mary was in need of this salvation as much as anyone else; it is some Catholics who believe Mary to be the co-redemptrix (although even that is not the official doctrine of the Roman church, as much as their official Mariolatry must make the good Lady blush).
Should have compared a traditional latin Catholic mass with the Orthodox service. This is a joke, comparing a post Vatican 2 one (especially a really nutso "liberal" one) with the Eastern orthodox, which never actually had any Vatican 2 style changes. I was hoping to see a comparison of the core beliefs as practiced in a mass. No such luck.
Especially with the Orthodox service with the Patriarch present. It's like an exceptional thing given the size of the church
Obviously this post presents a complete distortion of the picture, there are many similarities between Orthodox and Catholic liturgy and churches yet each has apostolic succession and many unique difference/fundamentals - what we see here is not an authentic comparison and perhaps deliberate... + Deacon Athanasius (Orthodox Christian and repenting sinner)
The purpose of this video was to mock people. Notice how the poster didn't put up a video from the Vatican or any proper Catholic Cathedral Latin service.
I do agree this is perhaps a biased representation regarding modern Roman worship... never the less... it exists and is allowed. The problem isnt trying to find a more "traditional service" in regards to the Vatican... The problem les within the Vatican itself.. It is a fireign religion void of historical and preserved Christian Truth.
West could never really handle Theology and Liturgical Worship. This what we see is only the logical epilogue of Rome's fall.
Orthodox Church im planning on converting from Catholicism to orthodox
First of all, with all respect Orthodox brothers, your can not talk about liturgy when you are schismatic. this is due to the Second Vatican Council; before him, the liturgy was precious and 100% respected, incomparable. Oh, and if they have some liturgy, it is due to another beautiful Catholic rite.
Luis, the word "pope" didn't show up until the 11th century and the Pope's then falsified documents on the "Donation of Constantine" which had been disproven as far back as the 15th century. The Pope was originally a Patriarch(first among equals) but was explicitly power hungry. Numbers do not make you right.
Which Saint was in the tomb?
The orthodox are schismatic, without succession and do not accept some dogmas of the Councils.
I am neither Orthodox or Catholic but I have attended services of both confessions. Its sad that whoever put this together created a propaganda piece for the orthodox church at the expense of the Catholic faith. Shame on you!!!
ruclips.net/video/GFQwfDcdtY4/видео.html
@Joshua张志鸿 That's cute.
@Joshua张志鸿 Go eat your batsoup.
Don't fight brother's. Read a copy of Qur'an and understand what god's message for humanity is. All prophets have the same message.
The message is there is no god but Allah (God) and Muhammad is his prophet.
Similarly for other prophets. But as time passed people changed/mixed/ added/substracted bible and moved astray. So a new prophet comes.
@@MS-Hussain the Quran is corrupt.
This is not representative of the Latin rite of the Holy Mass! I think the Divine Liturgy is beautiful but our rite is beautiful too and I do not see the real Roman Latin rite in this video!
+TheSwissMan95 Complain to Vatican II, not to us.
+Orthodox Church
The Novus Ordo of the Roman Rite can be beautiful too!
+Orthodox Church please read motu proprio "summorum pontificum" of Pope Benedict XVI :) Vatican II not forbidden the Latin Mass ! NEVER ! This is beautiful catolic Rite!
+Natalia Marfik hey I'm living in Moldova Orthodox .I want to talk to someone you may even want to know how you are thinking how to spend liturgies is absolutely trivial to believe in Catholic liturgy 's circus
+GangPrakStur ok make you one video
Papists stop complaining about the video. That is your official Liturgy now
Nonsense... if you are going to compare something do it honestly. This is just wrong !
I love how you comment is right but still the real comparison in in the comments not the video lol
As one of the posters below stated, Rome does indeed need to get her liturgical house in order, and I say this as an unapologetic Roman Catholic. That said, this video is a joke and the poster cannot be taken as anything other than a troll for presenting the worst excesses of the post-Vatican II Roman Church as the norm. It isn't, despite all the troubles we are having with liturgical abuse
That was me actually, and yes, I agree, the video is trolling. There is a longer 11 minute video that offers a more balanced comparison.
But see, this is such an American plague, both North and South. But in Rome, and most parts of Europe, true reverence still exists. That's the issue with the Novus Ordo; not that it necessarily was meant to be Modernist, but many parishes with a heavy Protestant force locally affected the Mass. That's why the Latin Mass is the better form. Though BOTH forms are valid, the Latin mass leaves no room for error, irreverence, or liberalism. But I agree, these abuses need to be addressed and dealt with, along with the lack of Catholic identity and devotion.
I do agree with you in general, but with one exception: some of the most severe liturgical abuses recorded have been in Europe; there is a priest who does "Circus Masses" in Switzerland, and meanwhile the archidocese of Cardinal Schonburn, an ultra-liberal figure, is a haven for all sorts of irreverance of the same sort experienced in the US.
قال الله سبحانه وتعالى :(( قُلْ يَا أَهْلَ الْكِتَابِ تَعَالَوْا إِلَى كَلِمَةٍ سَوَاءٍ بَيْنَنَا وَبَيْنَكُمْ أَلَّا نَعْبُدَ إِلَّا اللَّهَ وَلا نُشْرِكَ بِهِ شَيْئًا وَلا يَتَّخِذَ بَعْضُنَا بَعْضًا أَرْبَابًا مِنْ دُونِ اللَّهِ فَإِنْ تَوَلَّوْا فَقُولُوا اشْهَدُوا بِأَنَّا مُسْلِمُونَ )) صدق الله العظيم .. سورة آل عمران .. الاية (64)
Quran is garbage and Muhammad the fake prophet is in hell burning forever.
This is what happens when church services of any kind become entertainment. People may complain that this isn't a typical example of a Catholic mass. Maybe not. But it is a disgrace that it could happen at all. It certainly didn't happen in an Orthodox Church, and I guess that the real point.
I'm Roman Catholic. I have gone to many Divine Liturgies. I love both Rites. I'm appalled at this video. Do you really believe that Our Lord Jesus Christ would approve?
How can one judge a persons faith by the style of their worship? You can't. So you make a film of one Catholic Mass that's chaotic and judge the Catholic faithful? If you are an example of an Orthodox faithful. Why would I want to go?
Are you out of your mind? Lex orandi, lex credendi. "How you worship, how you believe." If you debase your liturgy/worship you debase your theology.
Our Lord Jesus Christ would approve of anything that brings us closer to Him. While I think the Catholic service was weird, I doubt that the Orthodox rite is much better. It's a bunch of old men in funny costumes, separated from the people -with the congregation just spectators. I doubt that's what He had in mind at the Last Supper.
This is not catholic Liturgy! Compare traditional latin Mass to orthodox Divine Liturgy and you will see that both rites are saint!
S4andy63: I have seen Masses like this in California, Mexico and Illinois. The Catholic Church has divorced itself from its Holy Tradition and is adrift. Now we have a Modernist Pope who puts down traditional Catholics.
Gumboz1953 I really don't think you understand Orthodox Worship--how can you from a few minutes of video? BTW, do you know the music they're using in the Latin Mass is called "The March of the Gladiators?" It's used in circuses! There is no piety or humility when you debase worship with that secular noise.
Спасибо большое за видео. Посмотрел и поблагодарил Господа, что являюсь Православным христианином!
Catholic Church is the true Christian
католики истина!
I attend Orthodox church and I want to say this video is horrible. No one should make such a video, there is nothing respectful about it. There is no competition between anyone venerating, and the mere thought of anything such as this video makes me want to smash my computer into pieces.
I do in part agree with you, although I think the poster of this video was trying to warn the Orthodox of a dangerous problem the Roman church is wrestling with, which is at risk of infecting our own communions. There is always a danger in polemics of degenerating into nationalism or triumphalism, but I don't see that here; I rather see a video that looks to me like it can serve both as a valuable warning to the Orthodox, and as a wake up call to Catholics. When you see the profoundly negative reaction Catholics have at seeing this video, when they realize such gross impiety is occurring routinely in their church, one cannot help but feel that this video might contribute positively to the very important effort on the part of the Catholic church to reform itself, and purge itself of the Modernist heresy, which is certainly a prerequisite for the full reconciliation between them and the East, that I am sure that we both desire.
IAWC - Support Persecuted Christians I agree with both of you. As someone that attends both forms of the Catholic Mass Ordinary and Extraordinary, I very much acknowledge I've seen liturgical abuse in the Novus Ordo, so yes, if strict rules are not observed bad things can happen at times. No faithful person who wants to give reverence to God would, or should accept that.
At the same time, this video is just to mock the few instances where rubrics are not followed. It's very prideful and arrogant on your part to whomever posted it What's really unfortunate is you give no respect to your fellow Orthodox who do not condone or defend the point you're trying to make. I hope Catholics as well do not do this with protestant liturgy, it's equally as demeaning and I as Catholic would not want any part in it. Not in Gods name.
CP Ramos It should be noted that it has always been legitimate to mock heretics. St. Irenaeus hillariously satirized Valentinian Gnosticism in Against Heresies. St. Elijah, whose holiness got him direct access to Heaven in a chariot of fire, openly ridiculed priests of Baal. The liturgical abuses depicted in this video are blasphemies, as bad as anything taught by Valentinus, and deserve nothing less than mocking and condemnation.
Thus, its entirely wrong of you to describe this video, which does not even comment on that which it depicts, but merely presents excerpts of actual occurences, as prideful or arrogant, given that in the grand scheme of polemics, this is rather mild. One would be entirely justified in going far beyond the mild criticism this offers, in regards to liturgical abuses (and as a delightful example of such heresiology, take a look at the blog "Bad Vestments.")
IAWC - Support Persecuted Christians I should lastly say that the idea that it is somehow unchristian to make fun of, ridicule or lambast non-Christian religions or heresies is a novel one; both the Bible and the Patristic tradition are full of valiant saints who defeat, through firery and at times very humorous rhetoric, the enemies of God.
IAWC - Support Persecuted Christians Well if your Tradition teaches you to mock others to change their hearts, so that it will bring them to the Truth of Jesus' Gospel, then that to me speaks for itself.
And my point completely flew over your head. Catholics like myself who attend the Tridentine Mass never see anything remotely depicted in the video, and never will. So the bias and mockery presented in the video paints things with a very broad brush.
Furthermore, I doubt the fiery ideological justification you mention would apply to Catholics of the Byzantine Rite who use the divine liturgy. Of course you'll say that's because they conform to your Orthodox standards. If these types of videos brings joy and justification to your heart and mind then feed off it lol
You can learn some humility by reading what Michael Lunz wrote,he'll bring more people to the Orthodox Church as well as the plight of the persecuted Christians in the Middle East and Africa, than the ideologue factions of your church.
What's the name of what they're chanting when the Patriarch steps out and makes the sign of the Cross over the congregation?
Ispola Eti Despota
I am Orthodox now, but was raised RC. I left party because of Vatican II. Of course, I had a few other reason to leave. (Yes, I am an old man.) I remember things getting a little wild after Vatican II, but not this wild.
I tend to agree that we should have some way to confirm if this was something that really did happen at an RC service.
Unfortunately, yes. This outrageous mass happened in Aparecida Basílica. Since Vatican II, masses in Brazil kept going worse and worse, some kind of woke religion took control of the once known as Una Sancta Catholica et Apostólica Eclesia...😢😢😢
Im Catholic and ive never seen such a Mass before... if you want to do the comparison for sound purposes just put the papal Mass for example, i see no need for this comparison and especially the way it's done here, we are both Christ's Church and soldiers, we are ONE as the Father Son Holy Spirit are ONE! †
The "mass" in this video is the new mass, which is not Catholic, it is the new mass which is invalid. The scary part though, is that most of "Catholicism" celebrates the invalid new mass! We must inform people to return to the Holy Tridentine Mass.
Roman Catholic Truth This is NOT the "new mass"... I go to mass almost everyday and have never seen such a circus. Obviously this video was produced to ridicule Catholics and sublimize the Orthodox. Hasn´t 1,000 years of hatred and distrust been enough? Isn´t about time that ALL Christians began following Christ´s wishes?
Roman Catholic Truth circus or not, it is still valid. please get out of your little schismatic sect, and fight for the church *in* the church.
B Rumm
It's certainly not schismatic for a Roman Catholic to prefer the Extraordinary Form of the Roman Mass, and to attend such masses as provided by their legitimate diocese under the instructions of Summorum Pontificum, issued by Benedict XVI. It is however certainly schismatic to attend those masses celebrated by SSPX, or the sedevacantists, or any number of other traditionalist groups, many of which are anti-Semitic. The SSPX in particular, with its chic website and premium private schools, has turned religious intolerance into a luxury brand, and no Christian of any denomination should have anything to do with it.
I myself am not Catholic, but I routinely attend the Tridentine Mass as celebrated in my local diocese, as I love the beauty and elegance of it, and am a liturgical enthusiast. Interestingly enough, as a member of the Syriac Orthodox church, I am even allowed to take communion. The Catholic church ought to reform the new mass so that it exhibits the same solemn dignity as the Tridentine mass, by celebrating it ad orientem, discontinuing lay eucharistic ministers, using more traditional music, and clamping down hard on liturgical abuse.
tinaine1 It's the new mass, it's just an extreme version of it, it's still the new mass, the invalid mass of Satan.
As a traditional Roman Catholic, I object strongly to this unfair portrayal of our faith. Many a Pope since Vatican II has issued statements in condemnation of the type of nonsense here. It is something we have a big problem with, but if you would simply show the true Latin Mass, preformed ad orientem as it was intended to be, you'd realize our liturgy is also very beautiful. And as far as the sex scandals go, keep in mind that, while indictments are handed out often, comparatively few arrests are made. There is no proof Catholic priests are more guilty of child molestation than any other group. A good lawer can get a ham sandwich to appear before a judge. And the lawyer is ALWAYS a Jew. I don't think I have to explain to my separated Orthodox brethren what it's like to be targeted by those godless people.
There is another longer video that shows a more balanced comparison of the two liturgical traditions. This video is basically comparing a sort of "Worst of Catholicism" to a typical Orthodox service. That said, the point, from an Orthodox perspective, is that before we can make progress with ecumenical dialogue, Rome needs to get her liturgical house in order.
***** I highly agree, and I think the Roman Catholic church is moving in that direction; thanks be to God!
***** First of all, it is not incumbent upon us to change a shred of our doctrine. While our liturgical house has fallen into disarray due to the subversion of Jews, homosexuals, Freemasons, and Communists that have infiltrated our seminaries, our Doctrine has remained. You 'orthodox' preach a lousy doctrine, which is why you tolerate evils like contraception, and Russians practice abortion at truly cataclysmic levels. Your Marian teaching is wrong, and you must renounce it. She was conceived immaculate. If this is not understood, then she is not the Ark of the New Covenant. But Luke makes it clear, using OT types, that she is. ABSENT THAT UNDERSTANDING, THE NEW TESTAMENT DOES NOT FULFILL THE COVENANT. A denial of the Immaculate Conception is close to apostasy. Every other teaching is ok by us, in my opinion. You don't want the filioque, don't use it, like Eastern churches that aren't in schism. But don't tell us it's a heresy. We believe in Consubstantialism. As I understand it, so do you. That given, not saying 'filioque' is just a point of emphasis. Look, the fact is you all can't get a council together, so it follows that you don't know how to define heresy. I'm sure videos like this make you all feel very warm and toasty inside, because you can take some Brazilian parade and make it seem like this is what Catholics do everyday, when Russians preserve a very beautiful (and, near as I can tell, unproblematic) liturgy. But, the truth is your doctrinal house is as disordered as our liturgical.
DemilichFan From my standpoint as a member of the Syriac Orthodox Church, I do not object to the immaculate conception of Mary, but I would say that she was as much in need of salvation by Christ as anyone else. The Syriac Orthodox Church officially believes in the doctrine of the Assumption of Mary, which is not unreasonable; if Enoch and Elijah could ascend directly into Heaven, then surely Mary is deserving of the same honor. If she was not taken up into heaven, either before or immediately after death, then one finds oneself with the rather pressing question, as to where are her remains?
DemilichFan I should also say, that the only Marian devotion in the Roman church that I consider to be problematic is that to the Immaculate Heart; devotion to the Sacred Heart of Jesus strikes me as Nestorian, and devotion to a body part of a saint, aside from a preserved relic, is utterly bizarre.
Catholic practices really tend to differ from country and cultures. From the Catholic practices in the video, it could be only be applicable to Brazilian or South American Catholics due to the fact that many elements of the local culture has been infused into the Order of the Mass. Orthodox practices would stay the same no matter where you would go. So it would be ridiculous to actually compare due to the fact that the Catholic Church would differ slightly from culture to culture while...
The greatest difference here I believe, is the reverence and humility of the parish/congregation...many of whom have the hymns memorised and are singing in worship to the Lord Who is the center of all activities in the Holy Orthodox Church!
Shouldn't the first caption be "KGB agent Mikhailov enters the church"?
And, everything you show is also practiced by the church that is the TRUE recipient of the baptism of the Rus', The Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church.
Thomas Athanasius Thomas, you are so right. This is a faked together production of a Russian Orthodox liturgy with as Brazilian non liturgical celebration of National Children's Day and festival day of Our Lady of Protection Immaculate Conception. As I exposed in another blog that has been removed from here, the circus music has been superimposed to suggest a circus. It does not fit. Russian Orthodox have convinced themselves they are the Second Byzantium and Third Rome. The Catholic is going more Christ being honored by Christ honoring His lowly. Which "circus" rows His boat.
TGene ciarlo Oh yes. By the way. The Creole celebrating in St Peter's is the case in point of Catholicism allowing Creoles to honor God right at Mass. Get over yourselves everybody!
Gene ciarlo You lie through your teeth! That was a Mass in a real Catholic Cathedral!!!
I understand the Romans do things differently than we do; however this is not a fair apples to apples comparison.
well said. BTW for those who dont know some Eastern Churches are in Union with the Catholic church. I love icons.
Icons are central to the veneration of Christ, the Blessed Mother, and the saints...they are I believe essential to traditional Christian worship
Roman Catholics are one of the Rites of the Catholic Church.
+Jacob Good that would fall in line with Orthodox Theology. We do consider ourselves the Catholic Church and so does the rest of.the world. These are little difference s I hope to see reconciled in my lifetime. We have much more in common. The Saints, Apostolic Succession, The Blessed Mother and most importantly Our Eucharistic Lord. I make the sign of the cross when I pass an Orthodox Church. One time I even venerated relics in an Orthodox Church while in Uniform. The people where happy to have us. The Orthodox bishop had no problem with us venerating the relics.
+jacob good we were all one before the Major Schism. The East broke away. The filioque can be understood correctly with both interpretations. The Pope is Infalliable only when speaking ex cathedra on faith and morals. Using the term heresy does not help in the Ecumenical movement. Many positive steps have taken place on the last 50 years.
This is why I've chosen to be Russian Orthodox and not Roman Catholic.
ObnoxiousAgnostic This video is not Catholic, it is protestant...
+WanderLink orthodox divine liturgy*
The style of worship is very important...because it expresses the way you feel inside of yourself...its your composure ....if one is in peace or agitated.
if one is in contemplation or out of it.
There is a huge difference.
I'm A Catholic Turned Atheist, But I Have To Say, I Much Prefer The Orthodox Version Of The Mass……It's More Accurate To The Original Message And The Priests Clothes And Singing Is Beautiful….. What Is The First Hymn You Hear At The Very Start Of The Orthodox Clip? When The Patriarch Enters The Church?
This video is biased to Orthodoxy. I am Catholic, and I'd never seen a Catholic liturgy like this before... Show the real Catholic liturgy that they may know the truth.
ruclips.net/video/GFQwfDcdtY4/видео.html
I am a Protestant - yep I m headed home to the true roots of our faith.. Orthodox holds the true catholic faith.
I can see this is a mere rare and crazy example of how the Roman West has lost its way.. of which much was inherited by us Non-Catholics in the West after the 16th century.. The Orthodox East has kept itself true and pure despite any short comings.
This video is unfair. It is a shame that the Novus Ordo is susceptible to this. However, I have seen very nice Novus Ordo masses. Even though I still am not for the Novus Ordo personally since it's an oversimplification of the liturgy, it can still be nice. Thankfully the Latin mass is making a huge comeback in the Roman rite Catholic Church.
ὁ κατέχων Actually the Latin Mass is making a comeback but not a huge one. This present Modernist "pope" hates anything traditional. "Pope" Francis is the embodiment of Vatican II.
Thomas Carney Vatican II was actually a pretty conservative council. But, can you elaborate on how Pope Francis is a modernist?
ὁ κατέχων Vatican II conservative?? It was a revolution in the Church!!! Ambiguous documents and it completely changed Catholic worship!!! As for "Pope" Francis he hates anything traditional and his actions and words prove that. He puts down tradiational Catholics, he has dismembered the traditional Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate, and wants, through machinations in the so-called "Family Synod" to welcome homosexual couples into the Church.
Thomas Carney Actually, it changed mass very little. It was the 1969 missal which was a complete revolution in the mass. The missal we call the Novus Ordo. Explain how he has put down traditional Catholics. Also, I looked into that Fransiscian thing a while ago. I forgot the exact reason why he does not allow them to do it anymore. But it had nothing to do with him hating the traditional mass. And when did he ever say he wants to welcome homosexual couples? He is obviousley against it. He even said one time that transgenderism is like a nuclear bomb! I suggest you stop being in schism, and join the Church.
Thomas Carney Yes, I realize that.
You are misquoting him. He did not say that, he said that we should move into a more modern form. This is merely his opinion. Also, a statement from the FFI, " Many of us-I would hope most of us-Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate, welcome the Holy Father’s intervention into our life and trust fully that Holy Mother Church knows exactly what she is doing, even when the journalists do not. We entrust ourselves to her care, just as we do to the Immaculate." They also stated that what the Pope did was specific to a problem they were having within the FFI. He was not contradicting Benedict.
Can you give me links to your other claims which I had not heard about ever.
I live in Chile a mostly catholic country of South America and yes, I have watched ridiculous things in the Holy Mass. Old women singing out of tune cheesy songs, weird dances, and all that. The sad thing is that in Latin America the only apostolic church known here is the catholic, so they say it's the "original, preserved church that Christ founded". It's all they know. They don't know that exist the even more preserved and the only original, the holy Catholic Orthodox church.
+Magda Abdulmasih Well. To be perfectly fair, old women sing out of tune (and loudly) in churches of every confession the world over. You can probably go to some animist chicken sacrifice in the middle of Africa and find an old woman chanting out of tune and out of rhythm.
+Lytrigian I wish I could "like" your comment a hundred times. So funny and very true!
Lytrigian It's true, but not in a serious byzantine church choir
Magda Abdulmasih It most certainly is. If you think otherwise, you cannot have heard very many Byzantine-rite church choirs.
+Lytrigian your comment it's really true and....funny ;)
This is not an unfair comparison. In fact less than 1% of Roman Catholics worldwide attend the old-style Latin Mass. Most Catholics today have never seen the Traditional Latin Mass. Most Catholics, the overwhelming majority, attend the Novus Ordo which is extremely plain, with the priest facing the people like an actor on stage, and the music usually insipid guitar pieces. In contrast, the Orthodox Divine Liturgy is always a solemn occasion, unchanged for the past 17 hundred years, always chanted with sung responses, always with incense, always with the Priest facing in the same direction as the people, ad orientem. The Roman Catholics are always interested in Aggiornamento, which means "updating." The Orthodox prefer traditions that are indeed timeless and beautiful. So it is not biased and it is not unfair. One can easily find similar videos of Roman Catholic Liturgical events very similar to this with the Pope himself participating.
+James Thornton it's unfair because I've never seen kind of things ever. it's like a festival with clowns, etc inside of the temple when a liturgical celebration is going on..... Never ever. I'm from Chile where catholicism is majority and you may find a very simple almost poor liturgy with a couple guitars and chorus and just a priest or even a deacon ...
+James Thornton I not agree. Ok, maybe about(rather than less) 1% attend old-style Latin Mass, but in most greater cities it's available, it's not something, which happened "practicaly never"(like someone could deduce from Your comment). And what more... in my parish(and all in what i was in my country(Poland - whre catholicism is also majority of course)) such thing like in this movie NEVER happened. This doesn't look like catholic mass, it looks rather like protestant parody off mass(this what happened by protestant isn't mass - practicaly they have no priest, no liturgy, and no transubstantiation... in what they even don't belive(as far as I know)). Ok, maybe there are guitars in Novus Ordo Mass, but definitely not allways. In my parish there are 5 mass in Sunday(+1 Saturday in the evening) and the guitars plays only in two of them(or one, I'm not sure about mass at 10.00 a.m). So usually there are no guitars.
And im sure, that even if somewhere(this propably was in latin America, acording to this what language i could hear(sound like spanish or something like that)) in the Catholic Church happend such protestant-like pathologies such things also happened in Eastern Orthodox Church. So it should compare pathologic Mass in Catholic and Southern Orthodox Church or normal mass(Novus Ordo or old-style) in both churches. Not pathologic Mass in Catholic Church with normal Mass in Eastern Orthodox Church(if it even was a normal and not extraordinary solemn Mass...).
So this video is VERY unfair. It's only need to not be blind to see it.
I fully agree with you
I fully agree with you
Where i can find the full Orthodox Liturgy from the video?
I am Melkite Catholic, which is Orthodox (lots of tradition), but under the authority of the Pope. I was raised Roman Catholic, though, and I have never seen anything like the spectacle in this film. It really isn't fair. You could have made your point just as well by comparing a formal Orthodox ceremony with, say, a regular Christmas or Easter Mass in the United States.
By the way, we all have opinions as to which service we prefer, but which one would Christ really prefer? The old men in funny costumes, separated from the people-- , or the congregation (men, women, and children) clearly having a good time and happy to be there with Him?
Another uniate traitor... How you even dare to speak to us, you allied with Latins who slaughtered us. Disgusting.
Чварков Ђорђе
How sad that you should write such a comment.
Чварков Ђорђе
May God forgive you.
ajosephcirene I can't believe some people. Чварков Ђорђе is neither Catholic nor Orthodox because of the way he speaks. Neither Church accepts this behavior and hopefully he can one day see his problems.
iStouts Roman-Catholic Church are murderers, and pope is a leader of pedophiles, it has nothing to do with a way how i speak to uniate whores.
Very poor comparison between 2 churches.
So, I laughed at the Brazil video - herein lies part of the problem with the Roman Catholic Mass since the Second Vatican Council. The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass (many western Catholics refer to it these days simply as 'mass', and with a small 'm') is no laughing matter - Christ was not throwing a dinner party, and what the Apostles witnessed hardly gave them cause for celebration. Since those events, the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass evolved continuously in solemnity and beauty. Since the Council, however, it has degenerated into a man-centered sentimental community service. In many Catholic Churches, the priest stands facing the people and with his back to the Tabernacle in which the Blessed Sacrament resides - this is man-centered instead of Christo-centered; in some, the Tabernacle isn't even in the Sanctuary but, tucked away in a corner as if less important than man. In many Catholic Churches they no longer have the 'Bix Six' candles representing other six Sacraments (the Blessed Sacrament is the first). In the Novus Ordo, the congregation no longer watch the priest's actions at the Holy Altar - instead, they are distracted by singing songs. The consequential loss of faith is fueling the catastrophic tide of lapsation. The resurgence of the Usus Antiquior (the old rite, known as the Tridentine Rite) appears to be attracting souls to return. Let us all pray for our shepherds, and for guidance from the Holy Spirit. +
I am Orthodox and I can say that I've been in Catholic Churches and I've heard beautiful services; what happens here in this video is strange and disturbing. The Catholic Church should keep their old ways, which are just as beautiful as the Eastern ones. In Eastern European countries, the Catholic Church is still traditional, just like our Orthodox Church because people would not accept something else and because there are many people going to church, both Churches. But in west, they sing with drums and guitars just to make young people go there ; people should not go for fun but for faith.If they don't want to come to Church, it's their choice but do not make spectacle just to keep them attached.
+Daniela de la Lazuri I am Catholic, and I think you are completely right, friend. But it will not be long before the Tridentine Rite is restored to the Church. God will put an end to this crisis, in the same way He put an end to the Arian heresy and the Great Western Schism. Perhaps then we will be able to be reconciled with our Eastern brothers, no? :)
orthodox the only and true religion with many proves!
'just' go to 'Holy Mount' Athos in Greece........ i'd say a much more but just dont feel like its right time and place to do it...
+Uros Djorgovic i think that orthodox christianity has keeped original rite, like Jerusalem, Antioch, Alexandrian, Constantinople churches.
+skugric donji I want to learn more about the Orthodox Church, but don't know where to start.
+Homey Van Smack try visiting an orthodox church, and ask for a priest or a bishop, and tell him or ask him what you want and he will help you
+zaid “ByzantineOrthodox” taimeh We have Greek Orthodox near where I live. Is there much difference between the Orthodox denominations?
LOL... I could not stop laughing at the catholic portrayal of the procession of the Bible 😂. I’m still laughing...in 49 years of attending Catholic masses & services I have never seen anything like this before 😅. Where in the world does this take place?! Brazil!? I thought I heard Portuguese. OMG...this is golden! It’s so funny, my sides hurt 😊. Where did you get this footage? What is the name of this church?
It is not something to laugh, but to weep. It happened in my country, Brazil, in the Country's Patroness Basílica, Our Lady Aparecida. Pray for the Church 😢😢😢
@@marcosleaoteodosio5496 I’m so sorry. This obviously causes you pain. I’ve just never seen anything like this before. It just doesn’t seem real. Was this a one time event or does this occur frequently?
We would love to see (and hear) more participation by those "assisting" - Orthodoxy was not meant to be a "spectator" worship! Of course, many have prayers memorised and we cannot judge who is praying and/or not but ...more singing by people would be to return to the "original" way of celebrating!
I am a Roman Catholic and I am appalled at what is depicted here as the practices of the Latin Rite. In my 52 years on this earth I have never ever seen anything this outrageous. It is displays like this that give Catholicism a bad name. The Protestants that have commented here are having a field day. Outrageous, simply outrageous.
votre religion ne vous enseigne t-elle pas la charité chrétienne comme la plus grande des vertus ? Puis je vous rappeler que le démon est aussi appeler "le diviseur" et qu'il cherche tout simplement à diviser les chrétiens. Par ce genre de vidéo vous vous mettez au service de sa cause.
Prions les uns pour les autres et regardons avec bienveillance nos différences loin des excès des uns et des autres (comme ici) par amour pour Le Christ Jésus Notre Seigneur.
Why not have an actually Latin Mass instead of the vernacular? It would've been a better comparison because the official liturgy is the Extraordinary form
I thank God every day that I am an Orthodox Christian. Absolutely everything that is experienced in the Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom is filled with the Holy Spirit and is centered on the saving work of Our Lord Jesus Christ. We worship in a deliberate atmosphere of beauty because Our Lord is the very essence of beauty and we can do nothing less. We stand in awe at the glorious mysteries of our faith and we rejoice in them.
try reading the parabola of the pharisee and the publican... maybe you see semblances
No fair, guys.
There are tons of other videos from the present day of the Tridentine Latin Mass. You couldn't have picked footage from those instead? I think it'd make a better comparison.
I would like to see a comparison of the Byzantine Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church. I am a member of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church (which is of the Byzantine Rite) and I do not see any difference between Orthodox and Byzantine Catholic.
Yes! you are right no difference.
The day you start reading the Holy Bible your eyes will open. You will realize all of you followers of Orthodox and Catholics have been deceived.
Daniel Maldonado you don't know what you're talking about. Many of the traditions are even older than the Bible. Who do you think wrote it? Your anti-catholic, anti- orthodox shtick is old & tired. Grow up.
Read the Bible if you have one. If not you should definitely buy one. Exodus 20: 4, 5 (Idolatry)
Praying for the dead, infant baptism, confessing your sins to a priest, Praying to Mary, Mary the mediator to God, bowing down to Mary and icons, Praying to saints, calling a priest father, etc. All of those believes are forbidden by our Lord.
We have no idols. You are misinformed, angry, and boring. You were raised to be a fundamentalist, literalist, arrogant bore. I don't blame you however. It's a rather long tradition itself now. None of it bothers me. I didn't choose to return to the Church. The Lord led me back here for His own reasons. You don't need to understand it, like it, or agree. But your demonic conspiracy theories are insane.
God bless you.
I'm Catholic, but that procession seems like something that would happen at a Carnaval parade. and is not actually done in other Catholic countries...
Jan Gregory Mappatao True.
Cannot deny that these things have happened in the west. Hopefully this video will open some people's eyes to how bad the abuses really are. Now, it would be terrific if you were to show the best you can find of Latin-rite services so people can have a comparison of how beautiful each liturgy really should and can be.
latin mass is all but banned
@@ryanl5817So it would appear, at the moment. But the FSSP (where most of the movement is going on) is VERY robust, and I am hearing reports that many dioceses are still allowing Latin Masses to quietly continue. Time will tell what God has in store for the Church's liturgy.
May the lord have mercy on us. I hope these Catholics in the video can find the true faith! God bless all of u
RESPECT !
GREETINGS FROM SERBIA!
Ahahaha why so many dislikes??? 😂😭 Long Live Orthodoxy 🙏🏻☦️
Maybe because people understand that God is not a religion
Hahahah because the video is just a lie😂
This is the real catholic liturgy
ruclips.net/video/zcOTkbhlEIg/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/KJ9DZgo4bBM/видео.html
The music at ~7:00 is most apropos for the invalid Novus Ordo Mess; it truly is a 3-ring circus!
The video is a giant logical fallacy. You cannot judge a faith based on a liturgy that is really not representative of the catholic liturgy. There may be some sort of difference in liturgical rites in some countries but it is too specific to represent the catholic liturgy as a whole. This kind of specificity is never generalizable. Even in research methodology, the kind of sampling used here is biased sampling. Why not choose the liturgical rites at the Vatican City instead?
Ryan James Gaspar I agree , they chose the worst example of liturgy , I am Brazilian and see, for example the liturgy of the Mass at the Monastery of São Bento in São Paulo would see as the liturgy is well made.
This is totally wrong in catholique church we would all be quiet and we do not dance !
Make an unbiased comparison with the tridentine mass, this is not who the catholic church is.
Jonathan Robbins The Catholic Church is mainstream protestant today. I
the catholic church is dealing with a lot of problems today, but there are a lot of underground true catholics that secretly run the protestant headed dildos. currently we have an agenda to make the non-faithful baptised leave the church out of anger and then rebuild from the little faithful. mind you, when I say little, I would like to emphasize that there are enough of us to make an impact. The things that resemble protestantism are not truly catholic, and they will be soon ridden out.
Jonathan Robbins Since the Council of Trent and especially with the new Code of Canon Law signed by JPII in the 1980s, more power than ever before has been put in the papacy. The Faithful...many are confused, even more LOVE the NO as a form of entertainment with the no-requirements pseudo-Catholic Church we have today.... it's going to take a non-Modernist pope with BALLS to fix the problems....we have not had a pope with REAL BALLS since Pope St. Pius X.
and many catholics, real catholics would agree, but at the time being, I have my reasons to be faithful to St. Peters chair, and I have faith that the holy spirit will guide the next pope to bring back the ways of old.
Jonathan Robbins What if the Cardinals DO NOT listen the Holy Spirit?? That happened in the election of Pope Alexander VI, who literally bribed his way into the papacy with his harem and illegitimate children!!! The camerlengo of that election said, "Let us dispense with the Prayers to the Holy Spirit because we already know who the next pope is going to be." This is documented. Tell me the Cardinals are going to listen.
I was going to say that, to be fair, you would need to compare similar services from the same culture. Say, RC in Greece compared to Orthodox in Greece, and both, say, a hierarchical liturgy for Holy Thursday.
Then I saw that....thing.....in the RC service.
I was raised RC, kind of remember the Mass in Latin. Fully as reverent and inspiring as the Orthodox Liturgy (should be, since both are the Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom).
I am Catholic and I am soo shameful that the Bible was venerated this way ,but this does not happen in india ,here we give respect and venerate it as holy as Orthodox do by spreading insence, bowing do before we read it and all other rituals
I understand that the Catholic mass here portrayed is not the usual Catholic mass but , the very fact that those stuff happened in a Catholic church itself is ... a disgrace
As a Christian that attends Catholic Church for over 25+ years. I've never seen anything of this in mass. Especially at 5:35 time stamp. I'm literally mind-blown and surprised to see this. I'm watching this and thinking "what am I watching?!"
+Bao Duong idk what's that , but one thing I know is that there is no difference between a circus freak show and that .
Exactly, from my experience, every catholic mass is always very strict. The Same boring strict liturgy. I haven't seen a circus freak show like the one in this video.
As a life-long Catholic I have to admit I am very embarrassed by this mass, in particular the 'gospel procession' part. I presume the circus music was not part of the actual church service, but even without it the "procession" was embarrassing and inappropriate. We have definitely gone wrong somewhere when this codology is taking place in the Catholic Church, even if it is in a Spanish speaking culture.
rocochap21 I agree with you, yes is in latin american culture but these aren't spanish speakers, these are portuguese speakes from Brazil.
We Reformed Protestants don't have processions with the Bible like the Roman Catholic Church or Eastern Orthodox Church. We don't encrust it with gold, bow to it, cover it with incense, lower candles before it, have vestment-wearing clergy stand around it.
But we do read our Bible and obey what it says.
Regarding the Divine Liturgy according to Metropolitan Kallistos Ware, ".....the whole text of each service is shot through with Biblical language, and it has been calculated that the Liturgy contains 98 quotations from the Old Testament and 114 from the New." How much of your Reformed Protestant service is actually taken from the Bible, versus just your arrogant pastor spewing self-generated heresy from the pulpit?
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By the way, I'm sorry if that came off as a bit vitriolic, I am just really sick of ignorant Protestants calling us heretics, while not lifting a finger to help their Christian brothers and sisters in Syria who are being killed daily. Do you even pray for them?
IAWC - Support Persecuted Christians Don't worry about the vitriol.
I take a deeply active concern regarding persecuted brethren in other parts of the world. One of the chief charities to which I donate is Voices of the Martyrs, which aims to support Christian communities that are under serious attack. I would urge anyone concerned about the plight of the persecuted church to donate to this charity. They do good work. And certainly pray for these communities. But go further and place resources on the line for them as well.
In regards to our worship, ours is essentially a ceaseless recitation of the scriptures; hymns and psalms obviously based on scripture; exhortations from the scriptures; and a sermon that exposits and proclaims the scriptures. It's very hard to argue that we orthodox Protestants somehow fall short on the scripture stakes, given that it is our "thing": heeding the words of God alone. Even some eminent Catholics will acknowledge our commitment and reverence to the word of God.
jlandles
Note that Jesus Christ is actually the Word of God, according to John chapter 1. If the Bible is also the Word of God, then each Bible is literally a manifestation of Jesus, similiar to the Guru Granth Sahab of Sikism, which would make the manner in which many protestants carry about the Bible in the liturgy rather impious, to say the least.
However, I think its more accurate to say that the Bible is the valid Testament of God, pointing to the Word, but not in itself the Word, which is Christ.
We Orthodox in our worship also ceaselessly recite scripture. The entire psalter is read through every two weeks; in Lent, it is read through weakly in the course of the daily Hours. The hours together with the liturgy contain a robust cycle of scripture references.
Now regarding your Protestant church, are you using the Three Year Revised Common Lectionary? Interestingly enough, that was actually based on the lectionary introduced in the Roman Catholic church in 1969 with the Novus Ordo Mass. In the Orthodox church we do not use that however, rather, we use a much older lectionary that reads through in a single year. We don't get through the Bible in its entirety in the church, but that's alright, as each service's lections are designed to convey the theological message for that particular day. The lectionary also contains readings for each day of the week, and not just Sunday. In the actual church services, the Gospel Book which you see us venerating in the above video is arranged according to the Lections, so for each liturgy, the priest reads the appointed Gospel, and then simply moves the bookmark as needed for the next service. Many of these Gospel books are incredibly old.
In addition to the main Epistle and Gospel readings in the Divine Liturgy (the service of Holy Communion), and the antiphons, a few other readings of special form are interspersed, for example, the Prokeimenon, which is a single verse of scripture used to set the theme for the Epistle and Gospel reading that follow. This is functionally similar to a Collect, only its taken directly from scripture, as opposed to being a written prayer.
IAWC - Support Persecuted Christians I am uninterested in a protracted debate, but I would point out that your statement that the Word made flesh (Christ) somehow nullifies the Bible being the "word of God" is not how the Bible itself refers to scripture, or how the apostolic writers speak of scripture.
With all respect, this is one of the frustrations in dialoguing with people who belong to traditionalist churches; they simply do not know their scriptures well enough to have a detailed discussion about it.
Paul tells the Corinthians that they do not "peddle the word of God" for profit (2 Cor 2:17); that they present "the word of God in its fullness" (Col 1:25); and he commands us to take up the "Sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God" (Ephesians 6:17). To these three references, I could add about 20 others from across the letters, including from the letters of Peter.
If a person must take a position that would undercut the apostolic writers themselves, then might I suggest it's not a very good argument?
In relation to lectionaries and the rest of the issues you refer to, you are evidently proud of your church, its rituals and rites, its traditions and practices. But we orthodox Protestants have simple worship. We worship as closely as possible to that of the New Testament Christians, with simple singing of biblical hymns, preaching, and fellowship. For us, worship is about glimpsing the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ, which outshines all the gold and incense in the world.
Gold, complex calendars and rituals (to our mind) is the externalising of worship, which is what inevitably happens when there is no regeneration of the heart. Because true heart worship cannot happen (since the heart remains dead), worship must be exported into the outside world of the tangible. Perhaps for this reason I have often heard Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox express great pride in their church, but I have never once heard either express pride and affection for the Most High Jesus Christ and joy in their salvation - unless first prompted.
Always, in my experience, a R.C. or E.O. will glory first in their church, not in Christ Jesus.
This is an unfair comparison. Why are you comparing a traditional Orthodox service with an non-traditional/non-Latin Mass? There is no comparison.
sakor88 You should stay in the Church for the truth and for salvation of your immortal soul, not leave it over liturgical issues. Anyway, you can be Catholic of Greek Rite (like I am) and enjoy both beautiful liturgy and the truth.
+standev1 What kind of an infallible "Vicar of Christ" would have allowed all of the post VII nonsense? Liturgical matters are not peripheral -- "lex orandi lex credendi est."
And what kind of Pope would allow this stuff? It is right there on video recording -- and I've heard of many such examples.
oldwest517 I encourage you to read what infallibility of Pope means and what it doesn't mean. A lot of people misunderstand this dogma.
I understand people having different styles of music and worship and all, but don't you think making a church service indistinguishable from a carnival might be overdoing it?
very unfair comparison, I've never witnessed masses as bad as these. It would be more fair if you compared with the Tridentine mass, Papal mass, or with another liturgy unique to Catholicism such as a Maronite liturgy or Syriac. I've seen some beautiful Novus Ordo masses and bad ones but none this bad. I wish the Orthodox had the kind of worship diversity that Catholics have, the Orthodox restrict themselves to Byzantine Rite only while Catholics have about 23 different liturgical rites and traditions, how sad.
Orthodox do have more rights than just Byzantine, Byzantine rite is the main rite, just like Roman rite is main in the Vatican Church. Orthodox have revived the Liturgy of pope st Gregory the Great. Orthodox Church is working hard to revive Celtic and Galitic Liturgies Rome and Anglicans destroyed. Orthodox have not tried to impose union on some monophysite sects, so because of that Orthodox don't have many as 23 rights. Maronite Liturgy is shame of Rome, it was completely destroyed and Latinized by Rome, and it was once authentic Liturgy.
Plus, it is not unfair comparison, it is Rome's fault that bishops and even cardinals are celebrating such Liturgical abuse. Video shows that Liturgy is a play thing for many Roman-Catholics, and in Orthodoxy Liturgy is gift from God, that is why it is called Divine.
Celtic and Gallican rites are just variations of the Roman Rite such as the Mozarabic, Sarum, and Ambrosian, very similar. The Maronite liturgy is beautiful and very unique because it has been blended with the Latin Rite, the East meets the West in the Mozarabic liturgy. I agree it's shameful liturgies that happen but there are just as many beauties and reforms are slowly being made to rectify the chaos Vatican 2 caused. I know the Orthodox don't understand this because they never hold Ecumenical councils but after every council there is always a great upheaval that takes many years to sort out.
Maronites were monotelite heretics and then uniates. Maronites are proof that Rome cared only about power, about unions, not about orthodox faith.
Unity does not necessarily mean uniformity. The Maronites are not monothelites now and they will argue that they never were. Also John I can understand, I've been to "western" Orthodox churches that have Byzantine influenced Latin liturgies. Hopefully all Catholic churches will renew their liturgical traditions in time, we are already seeing great progress. We just have to keep in mind that different people benefit from different worship styles, and liturgy is not a one size fits all spiritualitys.
Mark Le Roy Novus Ordo was great renewal. lol
I am Orthodox from Eritrea 🇪🇷 Thanks so much my God that I am in the right Religion
Btw the mass he shows isnt in my opinion liturgy but liturgical abuse
We orthodoxs should not interphere with the poor unbaptised pope slaves.
We should not even greet them at all,not even a word.
The only thing we can do is to pray for them to return to the mother church and save their souls,or else they are doomed.
Hard but thats the truth,God bless all.
***** Read what our fathers say about how to treat heretics and then talk.
Its our duty to avoid them,love them and pray for them but avoid them.
Love is not always behind kindness but also on things that seem rude to others.
***** Unbaptised people cant be saved,or else it would not matter to follow orthodoxy.
Lets get serious,no orthodox people will be saved,we pray everyday for them to return to one and only Holy Catholic Church which only orthodoxs follow.
true words vasilios 👏
Vasilios one passage from the bible is enough to destroy your hateful comment
And you know the passage I'm talking about "love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you"
+tactical “assault” plunger Love my enemies,but not love herecies.
Pray for heretics to return to Jesus,because with Pope are with the devil.
Simple as that
A Celebração Litúrgica e Eucarística da Igreja Otodoxa é Extraordinária, Belíssima!
Roman Catholic procession with the bible is not true,
Fuck you bibl is 100% true
Let's not forget that Apostle Peter firstly established Patriarchate of Antioch, then he moved to Rome and established Patriarchate of Rome. Arch-heretic pope claims his heresy and primacy because he is successor of Apostle Peter, well Patriarch of Antioch is also successor of Apostle Peter, but Patriarch of Antioch never claims primacy or any other kind of satanic arrogance. Antioch remained Orthodox, while Rome has fallen in to heresy, and is slowly turning in to this in this video.
The only reason why Rome was proclaimed to be FIRST AMONG EQUAL, is because Rome was capital of Roman Empire. That is why Constantinople was second, because Constantinople was second capital of Roman Empire. With the Roman Patriarch as Orthodox center gone, Constantinople is FIRST AMONG EQUAL now, and it will remain so until Rome returns to Orthodoxy. But i doubt Rome wants to return, all what Rome does is ruining Christianity, after all, 40 000 Protestant sects exist because of Rome's corruption and heresy. Rome's faults created Protestantism, which made Christian world almost impossible to unite under One True Apostolic Universal Church (Orthodox).
LOL
Calvinism is a sect and heresy, just like all other Protestant dominations. Protestantism is logical conclusion of the Roman fall. The Truth rests in the Orthodox Church, as this video clearly shows.
***** You must have take too much LSD. John Calvin invented Calvinism. It was based upon a lot of faulty logic and the work of Thomas Aquinas. Thomas Aquinas work was the project of even faultier logic and the work of Augustine of Hippo. Augustine of Hippo was working with a very poorly translated of version of the Scripture. So, basically Calvinism is the product of poor logic and a poorly translated Scripture.
Since John Calvin was not born until 1509, it would be impossible for the Early Fathers of the Church to have been Calvinist unless they also had a time machine. If you learned any of this nonsense at any sort of an institution of higher learning, I strongly suggest you apply for a refund, as you really got taken. lol
Church fathers were Orthodox Bishops of today's Orthodox Church. It is tragicomic to claim Calvinism over holy Orthodoxy.
*****
So, the early Church Fathers had some sort of time machine? They traveled forward in time to the Reformation, met with John Calvin, learned of Calvin's vile heresy and used their time machine to travel back to the time of the Early Church?
You are a crazy person, Calvinismls. You are just plain insane.
As some people wrote, this video is not obejective, because it does a comparaison between a old tradition and a new rite created after the Vatican II Concile. This is not the real latin Church tradition. The real Tradition for the latin Church is the St Pius V liturgy, this liturgy were used by the Church for hundreds of years, some parts of this liturgy is from the apostolic tradition. There is still some communities in the Church using this liturgy like the FSSP, ICRSP and the FSSPX. Of course the Byzantine rite uses by the Greeks and the Russians is beautiful, but they are missing one thing, they are not attach the the head of the Church, the successor of St Peter, established by the Christ himself.
It is fair, because there are no new rites in Orthodoxy. It is not our fault because you allow your Church to have clown masses.
It looks like they are making fun of the Catholic Church and I don't they would ever play clown music during a mass
It's not the Catholic Church, it's the Vatican II sect.
Roman Catholic Truth Oh, yes! Vatican II sect! Vatican I sect! Council of Trent sect! Council of Florence sect! It is so funny the way the Roman Catholics keep dreaming up new heresies. We would have more respect for them of they would just admit that they were club, like the Masons, and not a real religion that could help people actually get to Heaven.
Prince Lazar You are being deceived by Satan. There is no salvation outside of Christ. You deny this dogmatic teaching by calling the Catholic Church pagan, repent.
Pagan or heretic, take your pick. The Roman Church is a real sham anyway you look at it.
Rebel Czech You are thinking of the Vatican II sect.
Very biased portrayal of the Church (Catholic) - to be completely honest, the Orthodox priests in their ridiculous finery and jeweled hats speaks less of dignity and holiness than it does a rather unbecoming opulence.
Damn straight! The catholic priests have simple robes they can slip off easily when they r around little children unlike the Orthodox priests "in their ridiculous finery and jeweled hats" :-P
11AlphaHOA
Pedophilia isn't a laughing matter.
There's a longer video that shows a more balanced comparison, although the Orthodox point here is that this kind of liturgical abuse has sadly become de rigeur in the Catholic church, but is unknown in Orthodoxy. I agree that Paedophilia is no laughing matter, and 11AlphaHOA's remark was a cheap shot. That said, the Eastern Orthodox, and the Eastern Catholics, have married priests, and have not experienced the problems of abuse peculiar to the Western Rite. I think a case could be made for allowing secular clergy to marry, while working to increase the number of vocations to the Religious orders, such as the Canons Regular, the Franciscan and Dominican friars, the Oratorians, and so on.
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This is bogus too - where are your comparative statistics? "peculiar to the Western Rite"? Oh, you mean the largest denomination of Christians on the planet. Eastern Orthodox teaching on divorce is alone so completely suspect and utterly heretical that I really can't image there being much leeway here, even though the Church has bent over backwards trying to work for reconciliation. Which is not to mention the endemic racism that characterises Orthodox churches.
Pete Farrugia The Eastern Catholics allow clerical marriage, except in North America. I think this is a valid practice that should be implemented in the Latin Rite. Note that I myself am ethnically Swedish, and was received into the Syriac Orthodox church; I am the only non-Syriac member of the parish, but the enthusiasm and hospitality with which I was welcomed brought tears to my eyes. Your mileage may vary, depending on the Orthodox church in question, but know that Ethnophyletism, the idea that people of different ethnicity should worship in different churches, was condemned by a pan Orthodox council in the 1890s. There are also many "ethnic" Roman Catholic churches in the United States that are dominated by Poles, or Irish, or other ethnic groups, and I have read reports of people of different ethnicities being made to feel uncomfortable there. Racism sadly exists in every church, and both the Orthodox Church and the Roman Catholic Church, along with nearly all Protestant churches, have officially condemned it.
Angels skating to circus music at 5:48?! I'm sorry, but that is undignified, not worthy of the solemn occasion. I'm glad they don't have that at St. Patricks Cathedral in NYC.
HERESY. Heresy everywhere. It is truly an undignified HERESY.
Claudius Brown Amen!
It is the Vatican II sect.
Somebody already pointed out that the video belongs to a Brazilian folkloric celebration of the Virgin Mary 'Senhora Aparecida' That circus production was probably one of a kind will not be seen again even in Brazil. Think of the logistics to put on such a show. It´s like a Broadway musical! It is quite dishonest (and un-Christian) to present that video as typical of a Catholic mass.
tinaine1 The new mass is not Catholic.
You'd be surprised to see all the abuses that people who celebrate the new mass commit.
"By their fruits you shall know them." (Matthew 7:16)
tinaine1 Are you kidding? Across the US, you can find variously themed moronic "masses" being done in many dioceses. Polka masses, dance masses, fairy masses, clown masses, many of which are centered on youth and activities to "suck in" and deceive/desensitize younger generations as to hide what true Tridentine (original) Catholic Masses and worships must be.
As a Brazilian, I am offended by such a comparison! This is the way Cristians in my country express their Faith.
If your referring to the phony Novus Ordo Mess, extolled by the heretical apostate antipope Francis the Fraud, who himself is not even a Christian, let alone Catholic, then your participating, in the words of that great musical group Styx, truly a "grand delusion".