Today on CSB, Woolie and Pat have their fight in the rain (Woolie shirtless, Pat naked) before ultimately standing back-to-back and yelling “JACKPOT” at their true enemy: The Audience. In the end, It Had to Be This Way.
like honestly?? The Audience IS wrong this time. QWERTY only came about as a compromise to Telegraph manufacturers who literally were trying to Frankenstein together a "hybrid control" compromise of PRE-transistor circuits that automatically input the correct frequency of beeps. It was NEVER designed for controlling a character's rapid movements in a fast action high precision shooting simulation..especinally not in 3d as telegraphing wasn't even real Binary
@@iller3 And trees were never designed for making houses, boats, furniture, tools, etc. But people found out that it works really well for those purposes.
"Woolz, your habit of explaining yourself can come off as explaning why you were really right." "Let me explain why I do that." "Wait, you're explaining right now." "Let me explain why I feel the need to explain why I explain."
At this point, they're basically trying to insinuate that Woolie's _entire personality_ is invalid. That everything he is and everything he thinks, down to the way his mind processes information, is inherently wrong. That he needs to remake himself into a completely different person because what he is now is somehow a bad thing *not because it's actually bad, but because it's different.* He's being chastised for being himself, which is not everyone else, how dare he. It's like when the school yard bully picks out That One Kid on the playground as the target of their impotent rage simply because they stick out from the rest of the crowd, except _everyone_ is the school yard bully, perpetually, for the entirety of their lives and you will never be allowed to exist as you are without their approval. The "It's pronounced gas-lighting" comment was more apt than I think even the commenter knows.
All right, I'll bite. It's stupid as fuck to say "tHeY (who are 'they', by the way? The international Woolie-hating brigade?) ArE tRyInG tO sAy ThAt WoOlIe'S wHoLe PeRsOnAlItY iS iNvAlId". People are commenting on ONE BEHAVIOR TRAIT. Not "being honest", not "being a genuine person", one specific thing: "when a person insists upon explaining themself after the fact despite it being not asked for or necessary, that comes off dickish". Nobody is "invalidating his entire identity as a person", you fucking numbskull.
If somebody said to me "tri3s4life, your habit of telling every girl you see that you want to bang them makes everybody around you uncomfortable" and my response was some dumb bullshit like "I'm just being HONEST! That's who I am as a person!" I'd be a fucking retard.
I understood this about Woolie for a long time, he likes to explain his logic and reasoning, he gets a little too defensive and it sounds like an excuse, to most everyone else they think Woolie is insincere and is belittling everyone's opinion/advice on the topic and dismissing them. Woolie then in turns becomes super self conscious and tries to better explain himself in the future and breaks it down into smaller and smaller steps to be as concise as possible. which in turn just sounds like a fake sincere way of saying "you just don't get it guys so i'm trying to help by explaining"
I felt like I was crazy all these years watching people put Woolie on a fucking cross for some of the shit he said, thank you for expressing this so succinctly
Since your comment is speculation and only Woolie could figure out what his type is, (But if true) I find it funny that Pat's comment around 1:03:30 talks about how Woolie thinks people also think like him.. My personality type is intj-t... So i guess i get Woolie because I also think like Woolie a little bit
Im shock Woolie didn't know people HATE logic and reasoning bro also the fact he quotes a man trying to both sides the face he's a know for sexually assaulting women and now openlly a bigot
Could be worse, at least he isn't standing over his comatose partner jerking off. (Seriously, fuck Shinji and anyone trying to defend his character for that.)
Merc A flawed human being is something like being clumsy, or maybe being quite angry, or even having weird mind goblins. Jacking off over your comatose, life-endangered friend isn't a flaw, it's a degenerate act or a very disturbed person. It somehow puts you under actual bad people. Like even DIO, a guy that set Jonathan's dog on fire, would give Shinji a dirty look for that.
The sweetest part of this *real* conversation was when Pat , feeling that Woolie was in a sensitive spot , and didnt want to risk their beutiful friendship that has lasted so long and been genuinly fruitfull , decided the best way to stop him from feeling down and defeated , was to divert and direct all of his frustrations and negative energies , towards the audience/chat and make the audience the villain in this story . Cuz screw the podacast. Friendship matters most .And it was honestly really beutiful and wholsome and kinda inspiring .
I mean he's not wrong... The audience might understand that mouse+keyboard is considered the "META" but they may never understand the history on it, why it's still technically a "neophyte" solution, and also how Woolie being more gifted than them when it comes to software and hardware modding is not a "Negative" for people **like** Woolie just because they themselves think it sounds like way too much "work" to go through.
"Vergil why won't you just use guns they're so useful and take way less energy than summoning swords" "I just prefer summon swords I'm not trying to get anyone to copy me, they work fine, it's just how I was raised"
Dante: "I have a secret for y'all. You know how Vergil is all, like, serious and kinda cool sometimes? He's actually just as wacky as I am, he's just better at hiding it."
I don't know why, but Pats pause like his brain hit reset after Woolie told him his wrists get tired from using a mouse and keyboard made me laugh more than it probably should have.
really depends on the Keyboard design I think, , where it rests, and whether it's ergonomic... and also the shape of the mouse. Pat has stumbo goblin hands, woolie has basketball-american hands ... one of them would have to either stretch or curl their fingers uncomfortably back in on a mouse that was ideal for the other person. ALSO there's a rule in the professional gaming sphere most normies DON'T know which is "Move your whole arm Stupid!! Not just your wrist!"
@@Sigismund697 Really recommend finding a posture and desk height that compliments a kbm. And that's Not to mention the more ergonomic mice and keyboards out there
Woolie, you're probably getting floods of dollar store therapy over this, but I just wanna say that Pat almost hit the nail on the head when he talked about other people not being you. Because the thing is your methods aren't invalid like to seem to the think they are by the end of this, they're just not a swiss army knife you can apply to any person. You don't need to change how you approach everything, you simply need to improve your ability to discern when it's worth it for you to pursue the truth and find the root of the problem. Because sometimes it's just gonna make things muddy and frustrate people, especially when you have a wide audience of people who only know you through a weekly podcast and years of let's plays
No, if he would just take the next step towards something called a "SpeedPad" on the other hand, then it **becomes** the ultimate Swiss Army Knife for EVERY PC GAME. ...and I don't USE consoles! I'm saying this as a 25-year PC masterrace FPS-MMORPG alpha nerd who's ranked competitively
Same thing with Pat's point of view, no? Nothing is one size fits all. Everyone has different preferences. A keyboard is not the _RIGHT_ way to play. Woolies way is not the _RIGHT_ way to play. There is no such thing as a _RIGHT_ way to play. It's all opinion and preference and Pat was trying to burn Woolie at the stake for having a different preference than he does, essentially gaslighting him the whole time trying to convince him his preference is wrong. Literally saying "you'd rather do this bad thing instead of a comfortable keyboard" when Woolie is saying "playing with a keyboard is uncomfortable for me." He's actually trying to convince Woolie his *_opinion_* is wrong. Pat even compared Woolies perfectly rational explanation for Woolies preference to his own _actual_ mental illness (mind goblins) that is not dictated by logical rationale at all but rather illogical consequences that he cannot control perceiving. Woolie said he tried a bunch of different things to find what's most comfortable to him. Pat was born with or developed a mental illness that compels him to do certain irrational actions to avoid a panic response or a gnawing feeling. Those things aren't comparable at all lol. Pat is just saying that he's making fun of Woolie because Woolie makes fun of him, which is fine, but trying to paint it as wrong is silly. If you prefer to scoop your soup into your mouth with a ladle as opposed to a tablespoon then that's fine. Neither way is right or wrong. Both get the job done.
Exactly! I completely agree. I think that if Woolie would stop explaining "how he got there" as often as he dies, it wouldn't be as bad. If he explained sometimes and didn't explain at other times, No one could claim he's one way or the other. That can't say "he's always so stubborn.".
@@PredatoryQQmber If he's having fun, then what does it matter? As someone who's not watching that lp, this argument sounds like "but you're not playing it the way I want you to play".
Woolie has been perpetually trapped in an endless cycle of self-deprication and genuine honesty. Is this a curse? Bestowed upon him by a world that will watch for every mistake; a world that will deflect every compliment? I wonder if Woolie hopes for a chance to see it in it's entirety, and have his chance to kill it. i mean lmao woolie hole goes omnom omnom omnom
Woolie's genuine sincerity in a generation of fork-tongued liars is the only reason why people believe he is doing something wrong; explaining ones thoughts and steps towards the actions they took should always be respected and recognized for what it is: Honest.
I had a similar thought as I was listening through this. Like some people, for whatever reasons they may have in their own lives, approach any engagement with other people from a standpoint of "okay, where's the lie?"
Indeed, he's a sincere modernist in a hyper-defensive post-modernist shithole of a culture too cowardly to present their ego properly. Also, he could really use an Azeron device if his hand feels THAT disgusted with the WASD movement method and the finger repositioning. It's even more optimal and ergonomic than a keyboard and no one could fault him for preferring it.
I felt really bad for Woolie during this. Him explaining his thought processes never sounded like excuses to me. Lets not forget the time Woolie and Pat both profusely apologized and felt bad when they got stuff super wrong about that Jojo game
Yeah, I mean explaining how you reached your conclusion, even if it's wrong, is a good thing. That way you can at least understand how they got to their conclusion
Yeah but just listen to 1:01:01... he's not talking about being wrong, he's talking about "agree to disagree". Explaining his reasoning so that you can realize his point of view is right for him. It's not unreasonable, but in the context of "I always admit when I'm wrong. If I over-explain, here's why..." it goes a bit off topic, and ends up supporting people who say he's dodging/making excuses. Of all the things to give him crap for though, his "hybrid" set up is not a big deal.
I see you're taking the adventure time approach of making a longer than usual episode and naming it ominously after your main character a la "Finn the Human", "Jake the Dog". Can't wait for part 2, "Pat"
Woolie creates people out of raw meat and then eats them because he's racist against meat homonculi. (Real answer: it's a topic they brought up in the podcast about exponentially growing falsehood from a telephone game style misinterpretation from people that never saw the original context.)
FINALLY, SOMEONE WHO UNDERSTANDS, i always got confused when i explained myself when i do something weird/wrong/stupid, and people got angry specially my parents, im not saying im not wrong i just trying that you understand so maybe you can give me feedback or just know why this happened, most of the time people always say "you are just making excuses, stop that, shut up"
Skim through the comments and watch other people not getting it and doing that exact thing to people trying to explain their thoughts. A lot of people probably are like Woolie (myself I think, maybe not) but don't have moments like this to call back to memory.
You'd think more people would understand the difference between an explanation and an excuse. I think people just like shutting down explanations as "excuses" because it gives them a sense of power & dominance over the other person.
@@Harril8265 Well, there's that, but also a lot of people may experience that exact "excuse after excuse" kind of thing in their lives. And stopped recognizing that not everyone does that. To play both sides though, obviously some people are not willing to see the difference (willfully ignorant) and some are just not aware enough and come off the wrong way.
the only explanation i ever got from my parents was "you made a mistake, the rest its useless information, you are wasting time on purpose, get over it"
@@MagnusPrimeZ That sounds irrationally dismissive, but I have one reason why I can understand that view. I have a form of schizophrenia, which among other things makes it a bit harder for me to process info that comes in. I recognize it in the moment when I say it, but I still tend to get angry when people give me way more than I need for a given task or question. And I do try to come back later and explain that I wasn't trying to be cruel or anything, I just can't deal with too much "extra" bouncing around my head.
I know EXACTLY how Woolie feels so hard. I know exactly how he feels. I go through shit like this *all* the time. Not understanding where others are coming from. Wanting to defend one own's side or at least explain how they got there. I don't think I've ever been mistaken for Sea-Lioning, but I know what that looks like. How people assume a lot of disingenuity and stuff. And one of the most knock it out of the ballpark lines of all of this is "You want to admit you're wrong, but you don't believe you're wrong." Because yeah. Sometimes that's how it is too. Sometimes it's the Evangelion or TWEWY thing of "You will *never* truly understand the other point of view", or even just "I know I'm 'wrong' it but it feels 'right'".
I think one of the big issues is the assumptions themselves. There's a lot of people who make an assumption and just roll with it as truth instead of verifying it.
@@lucidindarkness5019 Indeed. I too am guilty of thinking someone's longwinded explanation of things was just them trying NOT to apologise, but rather, explain why HE thinks he's right. I was angry and super frustrated that I never heard come out of their mouth. "You're right, man. I'm sorry, we cool?" That was all I was looking for.
@@NekoKujo6785 I'm not going to lie, a lot of times I've heard someone go into a long explanation, I'm actively listening and trying to parse out details. But I have muted/blunted emotions and a neutral face a lot of the time, so I see people scramble sometimes thinking I'm judging them when I'm just trying to hear them out. It honestly DOES suck that too many assholes have ruined the ability to believe someone is genuine.
@@NekoKujo6785 I've always believed that it's better for me to be proven wrong and know it for sure than it is for me to believe I'm right and never find out otherwise.
This is the quintessential Woolie episode, and 'Mind Goblins' is the quintessential Pat episode. They make up the best CSB segments of all time thus far.
As someone who does this myself on a regular basis, how sincere you come across as is directly proportional to the _length_ of your explanation. If you can admit fault and simplify the explanation to the degree that it fits entirely within the same sentence, you're usually fine. If you can't, depending on who you're talking to it can be easier to just forego the explanation entirely. One thing that comes in with this is realizing how much someone actually cares about how you got to where you are. The issue is not that you aren't clear enough, but that you're TOO clear, because your desire for other people to understand where you're coming from, or to validate your viewpoint, can overpower the actual content of what you're trying to say. There's also the problem that, if you admit to being wrong, then quickly jump to a five minute tangent trying to justify your action, by the end, listeners are going to forget completely that you admitted guilt, if they even accept it at all, since that made up such a small portion of your statement. If you feel compelled to explain things, try to condense your explanations into something simple. You tend to ask 'you know?' a lot during explanations, which comes off as rhetorical, but I gather you're actually seeking confirmation when you say this, and as no one is answering, you keep elaborating and beating that horse dead. I gather this is the case because it's something I have a habit of, myself. The answer to 'what do I do differently?' is to put a harder emphasis on that first 'you know?', then fight against your compulsion to keep talking, whether to fill dead air or otherwise. Give the others in the room more of a window to absorb and either follow up if they're interested or change the subject if they are not. You may find that often times, you care more about your mistake than anyone else in the room, and the conversation will quickly brush past it if you just simply let it go.
It also helps when you show that you understand the problem. And when you ask a question, give the person the same time to respond, as you would like to be given to explain yourself.
I'm glad to have listened through all of this. Pleased to hear this wasn't a catastrophe like I was worried about. Hold on to the ones you love Mr. Woolie Madden, cause there are lots of them. Hope the both of you crazy (in a good way) guys stay safe in the quarantine.
At the beginning of this video I was laughing at Woolie being crazy Now at the end though, I am sympathizing with him, because I've been in the exact same situation in regards to trying to explain myself and not understanding people being dismissive of it. I don't know how to feel about this, other than this touching something visceral in me and leaving me feeling super uncomfortable.
There's a lot to unpack here but serious Props to Woolie for being so open to having his entire psychology cracked open for all to see like this. It takes a big man to see his 'faults' objectively and in real time. Sometimes people just want their pound of flesh. It's the toll you pay for something. I get stink eye from people when we go out to eat for ordering my steak done well done. They don't want a dissertation on why I like my steak ruined, they just want to feel a little superior or have a little fun. And ultimately you're right, it super isn't fair for people like streamers and podcasters where a literal 100% joke about getting raw meat eating employees fired will eventually gain a life of its own and become a factual statement about your character. You know what they should do? Get a meme phrase like Pat has before his crazy bullshit that lets people know the Woolie thing is about to happen. Thereby taking away its power.
Also, on the controller thing, it actually kinda makes sense, that he just never developed that muscle memory for keyboard, so of course doing some weird hybrid thing would feel better for him. Like, sure he could put in the time to "get used to it" but honestly, if what he's doing feels good for him and works just as well, then I say go for it. You have people out here playing overwatch on a bunch of bananas wired up to the computer and somehow playing well; not to mention people with various issues/disabilities using special controllers/set ups. If it works, it works. I myself have recently been thinking about trying to work out something with foot pedals because carpletunnle is starting.
He's a grown man and can do what he wants, but honestly, instead of rigging up some weird hybrid setup, self-imposing rules and restrictions on himself, and developing bad habits, he _should_ have just learned kb+m from the start, and that's the same advice I'd give to anyone in that situation. He's essentially being a picky eater, and the way you fix that is to stop ordering off the kids' menu and eat things even if you don't like them. Eventually you acquire the taste. Sometimes it's best to just force yourself through some discomfort. Maybe it's too late for him now, but I'd say better late than never. This isn't necessarily a big deal, but he's always going to run into situations where his hodgepodge methods aren't supported and he's going to wind up losing out on fun times because of it.
@@SuzakuX What bad habits has he developed and what self-imposed rules and restrictions does he put on himself? What he does is nothing other than preference. It's essentially "I prefer a firmer matters because it's more comfortable." Why on gods green earth would he force himself to get used to sleeping on a softer, more uncomfortable matters? It's like forcing yourself to eat bananas when you could just as easily buy apples instead. Makes no sense.
@@Edward-Not-Elric It makes no sense because you're not trying to make sense of it. You have your stance on this and you're pushing back against people instead of seeing valid points being made. The underlying issue for both sides to see: Woolie is on a couch, with a specific setup most people don't have. Unless he actually gets comfortable with the same tool as Pat's, keyboard and mouse is not viable due to wrist concerns. And at the same time, the hybrid *is* kind of a bad habit because it's not actually solving the issue, it's just letting him get by with less issues.
@@michaelmaguire4147 Are you saying that after that came up in the podcast or are you being genuine? Because if the other person doesn't *want* to have a conversation, fine, I only respond when there's a back and forth to gain something from. Otherwise, I like going into discusions like this; unless someone comes out swinging, I'm not assuming anyone's feelings are getting hurt.
As someone with wrist/arm tendonitis i feel you Woolie- i also have horrible back pain when i sit, so i play games standing up with a hip-level shelf for support (great for arcade accurate fight stick feel too!)
The main problem with Pats whole argument against Woolie is that Woolies thing is a personal preference made for comfort reasons, while Pats weird quirks are biological compulsions made from his own internal mind goblins.
@Line Error how is that inconsistent? Just means he has a lot of problems, it'd be inconsistent if at some point he said any of those problems don't actually exist or even implied they're not actually problems
8:18 "Nobody uses ctrl anymore" Say what now? The default crouch button for every game ever is not used by anyone anymore? Well damn, guess I'm no one then.
Eidos, who Woolie tested for, by default binds crouch to C. Extrapolating to the entire industry, from the one weirdass company that defies the standard.
I feel that though, I rebind control to alt or c in any game i play. LCtrl is such an awkward key to hit, my pinky has to bend backwards and i dont like it
Who would've thought that the guy who openly mocks "mind goblins" would have people waiting in the wings to mock their own. Sure, there's also an combination of "just use the control method inherent to the platform" mixing with like 15 years of bad PC ports having bad KB/M setups being a free pass because "just use a controller, it's what it was designed for" while the inverse is CLEARLY not allowed to exist chafing at people. But that's what it mostly is. People finally having an outlet when "the one sane man in the room" confesses to having a control method that literally rips the operating system apart as it switches between kernel modes every half a second.
You say that but that's basically the perfect solution for the drawbacks of both regular controllers and keyboard and mouse controls. You have the joystick so you don't have to deal with a glorified dpad surrounded by other buttons that can easily be pressed while trying to move around on a 3d space, and you have the wiimote with gyro and ir sensors so you don't have to deal with the inaccuracies of trying to aim with a joystick. People made fun of people playing Modern Warfare on the Wii when in reality everyone else was playing the game in an inferior way.
I just realized, through Pat and Woolies' conversation on it, that the phrase "let's agree to disagree on it" bothers me so much because I've rarely herd used the way Woolie thought it was used, and more in a dismissive way in arguments when poeple couldn't find a way to justify their side of the argument on why they do something shitty, like when I argued with an old lady at my old job about gay and trans rights, and all of her arguments were just shitty and didn't justify anything, or when a former client of mine assumed women were only speaking up about rape for money. That phrase always seemed like a dismissive defense mechanism to stop you from actually questioning your world view and look into things deeper than "That's the way it's always been."
@@Chubbz969 I was young, stupid, and emotional, plus trump had just been elected when I argued with the old lady, who was a co-worker. She brought the religion shield in when I brought up stuff about trans and gay rights stuff up. The other guy was 3 years later on my "break" (100 hour work weeks at "live in" jobs don't give you much time for sleep or breaks) and he just randomly brought up Bill Cosby and Harvey Weinstein. It was an insightful conversation on who I was working for, I'll say that much.
But that is the problem with idioms. As they aren't crafted words that express your feelings, people can take the triteness of it and do whatever they can to misinterpret it. It's like after you break up and someone says "There are other fish in the sea". There are a million reasons to get bothered by that phrase. You don't want another fish. Your pain is great now. You don't want to think about another relationship. But I think the most galling thing is that this is a time of serious emotion and someone can't even come up with some original thoughts to say. Just a canned phrase that is used in B rated Rom-coms. Just as you say, it comes off dismissive when you were raw and uncut. Sayings have no place in genuine exchanges of emotions.
"Agree to disagree" to many people just equals "I'm losing so I'm going to stop talking. You're wrong but I'm going to let you think you're right. I'm bored of this conversation." Or some other iteration of that. Not "Both our opinions are valid but not right for the other person, so we can just accept each other for who we are."
Why everyone calling Woolie crazy? He just said that it's just a personal thing, you see on the tone of his voice that he has a problem with WASD and that's it, if he was like Pat he would make a whole sociological and physical argument about how WASD is the worst and ignore anything agaisnt his arguments And on a side note I have something similar, I refuse to hold a xbox controller ever again, I did once and it was the most uncomfortable gaming experience up to this day.
I agree, while I personally don't enjoy hybrid it doesn't negatively affect me that woolie does like it, he isn't saying wasd sucks he just doesn't like it fair enough
In this case I still think he should go for the keyboard, the fact that he has to scroll through weapons is going to consistently hurt him. In HL2 I believe there's a weapon wheel which should make it fine
See I have the opposite problem, I’d rather replay all my PS3 games on other systems, even Jak II Fucking Hard, if it means I don’t have to look at a DS3 ever again. That controller feels like it’s going to disintegrate in my hands.
@@Comkill117 My favorite controller until now still is the DS2, because with each hand I can press all the button of each side with no effort and using all my fingers, DS3 even tho is basically the same feels heavier but when I got a ps4... after the DS5 reveal, at this point I could just buy a xbox and start using prosthetics because there's no escape for me anymore
Pat trying to understand and explain to woolie how he might come off and them both having a calm dialogue about all this gave me warm fuzzy feelings :')
Woolie actually uses "agree to disagree" correctly, it's "supposed to be" about opinions, because opinions can and will be different between different people, the problem is that some people try to use it when talking about facts just to end an argument, and also more and more people regard their opinions as facts. Also, maybe I just have the same kinda crazy as Woolie, but I'm the same way with trying to follow the logic on how I got to an incorrect conclusion when I'm wrong (maybe it's a debugger habit).
I think it also has value as a way to express, "Look, we've been going in circles for a while, and neither one of us has made any headway. Clearly neither of us is going to persuade the other, and frankly I'm tired of talking to you about this, so can we just drop this and still be civil to each other?" Sometimes, you just can't get through to the other guy, or you can, and they simply disagree. Not everyone has to be on the same page, and more to the point, not everyone is GOING to be.
@ the part where they talk about when someone pronounces something wrong or calls something the wrong thing 100% of the time: I had a manager at work (retail) who would ALWAYS refer to aisle 19 as "the poultry aisle." Aisle 19 contains paper plates, cups, and plastic silverware. Our aisles aren't named, only numbered, so she could have just called it aisle 19, but no, always "the poultry aisle" every time. She would say it over the walkie talkies and everyone just figured out what she meant by context clues and never mentioned it. The best I could think of was that she was thinking of the word "cutlery" and didn't know that poultry means bird meat, which was nowhere near that area.
"i like woolie because he's a SNK fan, just like me!" i wrongly thought now i know, i like woolie because i feel the same exact impulse of "explaining why am i wrong" and people just call that i'm full of shit.
The way I see it is that everyone has their own amount of crazy that others can't truly understand no matter how hard or little they try. I am slightly on the spectrum and was told this at a very young age so I think of social interaction a lot so that I don't seem weird so I would plan out dialogue trees in my head for every type of conversation. When I think of people defending them self I think of it as the branch in the tree that means you're digging in your heels to potentially start an argument. So when I say something to someone about how I think they're wrong and they start to defend them self it feels like they haven't listened to what I said. I think Woolie can't just admit he's wrong and stop there, this is because he's terrified of misinterpretation but doesn't understand that what he does to explain himself just causes more misinterpretation. I think a way you can help this is if you explain the big stuff but just "yeah I was wrong" on small stuff. Currently you always feel like you have to explain yourself but you can just say "I was wrong" and people would understand that more than an explanation.
I've never empathized so much with a man as i have with Woolie in this Podcast. I do the. exact. same. thing. and for a DECADE my family and friends thought i never admitted I was wrong.
I don't, but I got a head start on having it be playable for me because the muscle memory from Splatoon's Gyro and Kid Icarus: Uprising's Touch-Trackball controls carried over for me. So while I could feel that some of you guys aren't giving a chance... I can't imagine being able to stand trying to get used to a controller for more than a month , so I can't really say you guys don't have a valid reason for not liking the Steam Controller. I guess in a way, it's like the controller version of "The game gets good 20 hours in" for you guys, and I can't blame you for not putting up with that.
Woolie’s concept of needing to provide ‘breadcrumbs’ for his actions and thoughts is actually something I can really relate to, and I also followed his attempts to do so in the past. I can empathize a lot with the thought process of needing to provide context and an explanation in order to give and gain some kind of understanding and awareness of the ‘why’. So for what it’s worth, you have at least one on your side Wools
Thing is, Pat's methods of explaining his oddities is about as clear cut and "my reality is the only one that makes sense", demonstrated 100% perfectly when he talked about why he kept dropping an entire roll of toilet paper into the toilet. Woolie is able to explain (with RATIONALE) why he is the way he is, he can write an essay, deliver it on a podcast episode, deliver a thesis statement with proofs. Pat's rationale is "Cause" (more or less).
I believe you just want to explain your thought process, but when you start explaining it really sounds: "Hey i know it looks like i did something wrong, but the process of thinking was actually right, its only the result that didn't match. So you see i was right initially by X-logic process of thinking which sounds solid, yet the result is the problem since it didn't coincide. You see? The resulting action seems crazy nonsense, but the process was solid." Which really sounds a stubborn way to not admitting you were wrong. What Pat does is either say "ops" or some phrase to try to make it sounds like it didn't matter or bother him being wrong, which makes chat mad/pissy. OR he just stays quiet and for the next 1-2 minutes people pointing and laugh at him, then drop that after.
Man the first 10 minutes have thoroughly convinced me Woolie has some janky wrists. Maybe that arcade stick theory is right...at the end of the day there's gotta be something wrong with me when I'm agreeing with Pat on an issue.
@@phoenixsplash135 Do hitboxes offer all the same functionality while solving the wrist issues period? Or do they just allow you to heal and not keep taking damage?
@@lucidindarkness5019 Some things are easier to do on a hitbox, some things are harder, its mostly a preference thing. I guess it depends what was causing your pain? If its the hand and wrist position (like what Woolie talks about with using a keyboard) then I dont think it would help much, but if its all being caused by doing motions with a stick then it would be a huge help.
This is legitimately one of my favorite podcast moments. The funny stuff is great and all, but this was a very real situation where 2 friends tried desperately to understand each other and work through an issue that's affected them for years. For every person that says "This segment was boring" for stuff like this, I hope I speak for many more when I say please feel free to keep these in as much as you want. It's incredibly interesting and the genuineness of it all is part of why I really enjoy you guys.
I actually thought they were gonna throwdown for a second there. For a moment there I started to feel like a little kid again. Like "Is dad getting angry again? Oh shit! Hide!" kinda flashback. I honestly had to pause the video and take a few minutes and remember these two dorks are friends and sometimes get confrontational over stupid things and then go back to being chill again.
Honestly I admire Woolie’s openness to grow. I agree with Pat that he’s not ACTUALLY sealioning. Fuck chat. I love these guys. I’m glad something totally uninteresting (a game I don’t know about and control preferences) ended up being something totally interesting and relatable.
I fully understand Woolie. I get called pretentious all of the time because I always clarify statements with information beforehand. I do it because I want to clarify communications (make sure I'm on the same page with whomever I am talking to), not because I want to act like "I'm so smart," but that is how many people take it.
I too am a wordy man and get into trouble for it. Short and concise can in some situations be more powerful than weight of evidence. It's REAL hard for me.
Pat's argument about food opinions applies here. You can talk all the logic you want, but at the end of the day you either like something or you don't. Woolie does not like mouse/keyboard controls and the way they feel, but Pat is trying to logic him out of that opinion and is getting frustrated that he can't.
Except back during the sbfc days when overwatch came out, he explicitly said "I know that I just have to keep playing with keyboard and mouse and get good at some point" He's putting up roadblocks so that he doesn't have to play keyboard and mouse.
@@GreekJR2 No this isn't the problem, this is someone pointing out his acknowledgment of the issue and then watching him "roadblock" his own progression. And it isn't that he doesn't want to use it, it's that he's currently uncomfortable with it *right now*. Telling someone to leave it alone is in the same mindset as the people screaming to "just use keyboard and mouse". Just because you don't want to go deeper with a conversation doesn't mean you get to tell others to drop it.
@@GreekJR2 You're assuming a lot to think I'm someone pushing Woolie to use keyboard when he doesn't want to. I'm arguing against flawed logic, I don't particularly care which choice Woolie makes, it's his choice.
Today on CSB, Woolie and Pat have their fight in the rain (Woolie shirtless, Pat naked) before ultimately standing back-to-back and yelling “JACKPOT” at their true enemy: The Audience.
In the end, It Had to Be This Way.
Would adding full-back yakuza tattoos to that be too much?
PLEASE
like honestly?? The Audience IS wrong this time. QWERTY only came about as a compromise to Telegraph manufacturers who literally were trying to Frankenstein together a "hybrid control" compromise of PRE-transistor circuits that automatically input the correct frequency of beeps. It was NEVER designed for controlling a character's rapid movements in a fast action high precision shooting simulation..especinally not in 3d as telegraphing wasn't even real Binary
@@iller3 And trees were never designed for making houses, boats, furniture, tools, etc. But people found out that it works really well for those purposes.
@@XShrike0 I mean, Woolie already has his.
1 hour video summary: “We aren’t so different; you and I.”
"Where do your mind goblins lead you? Back to me."
-Pat
"BUT IN THE END, IT HAS TO BE THIS WAYYYY"
I am so glad to be the 666th upvote on the comment.
Because perhaps the true Castle Super Beast was the friends we made along the way.
"I chose my path, you chose the way of the hero. But despite everything you've done for them, one day they will turn on you."
this title and video length is really ominous
Im getting SUPER BEST FRIENDS (FINAL) vibes
It's the same vibe as when a chapter/level is just named after one of the characters
cursed
I had the same feeling. I was thinking, "Great what happened now that poisoned all of this for Woolie?"
@@Punchodile Final Chapter: Woolie
Objective: Figure it out
*TFW the anime episode title is just the main character's name.*
Me: *CONCERN*
PANIK
Sometimes it's a dank finale but you right
well son of a bitch.... fancy meeting you here
"The Beast That Shouted 'Do Combo' at the Heart of the World"
"The Beast That Shouted -'Do Combo'- 'Drop Your Shield, Perfect' at the Heart of the World"
@@FutBoy281 Ya know what I mean?
@@Psyqualia01 perfect!
@@bearandthebull2372 Godlike!
@@Psyqualia01 Excuse me
If you bump the video to 720p and squint really hard, you can see Woolie's Persona beginning to manifest.
"Woolz, your habit of explaining yourself can come off as explaning why you were really right."
"Let me explain why I do that."
"Wait, you're explaining right now."
"Let me explain why I feel the need to explain why I explain."
This is it
This is the entire video
At this point, they're basically trying to insinuate that Woolie's _entire personality_ is invalid. That everything he is and everything he thinks, down to the way his mind processes information, is inherently wrong. That he needs to remake himself into a completely different person because what he is now is somehow a bad thing *not because it's actually bad, but because it's different.* He's being chastised for being himself, which is not everyone else, how dare he. It's like when the school yard bully picks out That One Kid on the playground as the target of their impotent rage simply because they stick out from the rest of the crowd, except _everyone_ is the school yard bully, perpetually, for the entirety of their lives and you will never be allowed to exist as you are without their approval.
The "It's pronounced gas-lighting" comment was more apt than I think even the commenter knows.
@@Armameteus
No, you fucking lunatic.
All right, I'll bite.
It's stupid as fuck to say "tHeY (who are 'they', by the way? The international Woolie-hating brigade?) ArE tRyInG tO sAy ThAt WoOlIe'S wHoLe PeRsOnAlItY iS iNvAlId". People are commenting on ONE BEHAVIOR TRAIT. Not "being honest", not "being a genuine person", one specific thing: "when a person insists upon explaining themself after the fact despite it being not asked for or necessary, that comes off dickish". Nobody is "invalidating his entire identity as a person", you fucking numbskull.
If somebody said to me "tri3s4life, your habit of telling every girl you see that you want to bang them makes everybody around you uncomfortable" and my response was some dumb bullshit like "I'm just being HONEST! That's who I am as a person!" I'd be a fucking retard.
>Clip just called Woolie
>Is an hour long
Alright well I guess I need to get off my ass and listen to the entire podcast NOW
Not really, the first Half of it's really boring because Persona weebery
It's like when the last mission of the game is named after the title of the game
@@iller3 persona is good though
I understood this about Woolie for a long time, he likes to explain his logic and reasoning, he gets a little too defensive and it sounds like an excuse, to most everyone else they think Woolie is insincere and is belittling everyone's opinion/advice on the topic and dismissing them. Woolie then in turns becomes super self conscious and tries to better explain himself in the future and breaks it down into smaller and smaller steps to be as concise as possible. which in turn just sounds like a fake sincere way of saying "you just don't get it guys so i'm trying to help by explaining"
I felt like I was crazy all these years watching people put Woolie on a fucking cross for some of the shit he said, thank you for expressing this so succinctly
based on this i would say woolie's personality type would be intj-t.
Since your comment is speculation and only Woolie could figure out what his type is, (But if true) I find it funny that Pat's comment around 1:03:30 talks about how Woolie thinks people also think like him.. My personality type is intj-t... So i guess i get Woolie because I also think like Woolie a little bit
it's indeed speculation. i'm also projecting to a degree as i have similar behaviour and scored as such.
Im shock Woolie didn't know people HATE logic and reasoning bro
also the fact he quotes a man trying to both sides the face he's a know for sexually assaulting women and now openlly a bigot
WOOLIE FIGURES IT OUT: WOOLIE
Welp.....know thyself.
and he still failed the test
This is better if you imagine Woolie sitting in a spotlit folding chair like in the last two episodes of Eva.
Could be worse, at least he isn't standing over his comatose partner jerking off. (Seriously, fuck Shinji and anyone trying to defend his character for that.)
@@armchairmaster asuka enjoy it.
Is that another episode of Wrestlemania?
@@armchairmaster it's almost like he's a flawed human being or something and not a paragon of heroism
Merc A flawed human being is something like being clumsy, or maybe being quite angry, or even having weird mind goblins.
Jacking off over your comatose, life-endangered friend isn't a flaw, it's a degenerate act or a very disturbed person.
It somehow puts you under actual bad people. Like even DIO, a guy that set Jonathan's dog on fire, would give Shinji a dirty look for that.
I love how Pat looks physically more uncomfortable the more Woolie explains his set up.
MIND GOBLINS ACTIVATING
@@cyberninjazero5659 *ACHIEVING MAXIMUM GOBLIN TEMPERATURE*
The moment I read this comment is the moment Par puts his face in his hand, lol
The sweetest part of this *real* conversation was when Pat , feeling that Woolie was in a sensitive spot , and didnt want to risk their beutiful friendship that has lasted so long and been genuinly fruitfull , decided the best way to stop him from feeling down and defeated , was to divert and direct all of his frustrations and negative energies , towards the audience/chat and make the audience the villain in this story . Cuz screw the podacast. Friendship matters most
.And it was honestly really beutiful and wholsome and kinda inspiring .
I mean he's not wrong... The audience might understand that mouse+keyboard is considered the "META" but they may never understand the history on it, why it's still technically a "neophyte" solution, and also how Woolie being more gifted than them when it comes to software and hardware modding is not a "Negative" for people **like** Woolie just because they themselves think it sounds like way too much "work" to go through.
@@iller3 . Yes.
I don't think he even said that just to save the friendship, I think he was being genuine and honest. The audience is indeed retarded sometimes.
@@Maxim0M1 . I dont dispute that at all.
I'll take that.
"Vergil why won't you just use guns they're so useful and take way less energy than summoning swords"
"I just prefer summon swords I'm not trying to get anyone to copy me, they work fine, it's just how I was raised"
Hey, when you can cut a man from a mile away in the blink of an eye, using guns is just an opinion.
@@randominternetsurfersurfin7595 but guns can cut multiple men from miles away
@@HarshNerf Bullets don't cut. They pierce. Summon swords can do _both._
Dante: "I have a secret for y'all. You know how Vergil is all, like, serious and kinda cool sometimes? He's actually just as wacky as I am, he's just better at hiding it."
@@Armameteus Cutting and piercing are the same thing.
Pat's insight flip flops between being genuinely heartfelt to being the behavior of a cartoon character. It's like watching a Bojack Horseman episode.
I love how Woolie is like a breaking mirror while Pat is basically so broken he's a fun house mirror now
He embraces it. "Woolie, you're too attached to what you were. Accept that you're what I am." -Pat.
@@TealWolf26 Is... is Pat just turning Woolie to the Dark Side ? Is Kotor becoming real?
@@slayer2k89 It's not a story the Jedi would tell you...
@@slayer2k89 Pat is voluntarily accepting that he is chaotic neutral, Woolie is still trying to fight it and be true neutral.
AHHAHAHAHA
The existentialism have started to move
IT'S SETTING IN
I FEEL ENNUI!!
THERE IS NO EXISTENTIAL CRISIS ON THE TRAIN.
Oh no. :( Woolie is no longer friends with Woolie.
I don't know why, but Pats pause like his brain hit reset after Woolie told him his wrists get tired from using a mouse and keyboard made me laugh more than it probably should have.
I can relate, the same happens with me using mouse
really depends on the Keyboard design I think, , where it rests, and whether it's ergonomic... and also the shape of the mouse. Pat has stumbo goblin hands, woolie has basketball-american hands ... one of them would have to either stretch or curl their fingers uncomfortably back in on a mouse that was ideal for the other person. ALSO there's a rule in the professional gaming sphere most normies DON'T know which is "Move your whole arm Stupid!! Not just your wrist!"
@@Sigismund697 Really recommend finding a posture and desk height that compliments a kbm. And that's Not to mention the more ergonomic mice and keyboards out there
Or well, if you care I mrwn
Woolie, you're probably getting floods of dollar store therapy over this, but I just wanna say that Pat almost hit the nail on the head when he talked about other people not being you.
Because the thing is your methods aren't invalid like to seem to the think they are by the end of this, they're just not a swiss army knife you can apply to any person. You don't need to change how you approach everything, you simply need to improve your ability to discern when it's worth it for you to pursue the truth and find the root of the problem. Because sometimes it's just gonna make things muddy and frustrate people, especially when you have a wide audience of people who only know you through a weekly podcast and years of let's plays
"They're not a swiss army knife that you can apply to any person" is probably the best way I think I've seen anyone explain this.
No, if he would just take the next step towards something called a "SpeedPad" on the other hand, then it **becomes** the ultimate Swiss Army Knife for EVERY PC GAME. ...and I don't USE consoles! I'm saying this as a 25-year PC masterrace FPS-MMORPG alpha nerd who's ranked competitively
Same thing with Pat's point of view, no? Nothing is one size fits all. Everyone has different preferences. A keyboard is not the _RIGHT_ way to play. Woolies way is not the _RIGHT_ way to play. There is no such thing as a _RIGHT_ way to play. It's all opinion and preference and Pat was trying to burn Woolie at the stake for having a different preference than he does, essentially gaslighting him the whole time trying to convince him his preference is wrong. Literally saying "you'd rather do this bad thing instead of a comfortable keyboard" when Woolie is saying "playing with a keyboard is uncomfortable for me." He's actually trying to convince Woolie his *_opinion_* is wrong.
Pat even compared Woolies perfectly rational explanation for Woolies preference to his own _actual_ mental illness (mind goblins) that is not dictated by logical rationale at all but rather illogical consequences that he cannot control perceiving. Woolie said he tried a bunch of different things to find what's most comfortable to him. Pat was born with or developed a mental illness that compels him to do certain irrational actions to avoid a panic response or a gnawing feeling. Those things aren't comparable at all lol. Pat is just saying that he's making fun of Woolie because Woolie makes fun of him, which is fine, but trying to paint it as wrong is silly.
If you prefer to scoop your soup into your mouth with a ladle as opposed to a tablespoon then that's fine. Neither way is right or wrong. Both get the job done.
Exactly! I completely agree. I think that if Woolie would stop explaining "how he got there" as often as he dies, it wouldn't be as bad. If he explained sometimes and didn't explain at other times, No one could claim he's one way or the other. That can't say "he's always so stubborn.".
@@PredatoryQQmber If he's having fun, then what does it matter? As someone who's not watching that lp, this argument sounds like "but you're not playing it the way I want you to play".
"Woolie, this is gonna ruin your life"
"...you can't ruin my life"
HE ALREADY DID
Woolie has been perpetually trapped in an endless cycle of self-deprication and genuine honesty. Is this a curse? Bestowed upon him by a world that will watch for every mistake; a world that will deflect every compliment? I wonder if Woolie hopes for a chance to see it in it's entirety, and have his chance to kill it.
i mean lmao woolie hole goes omnom omnom omnom
Woolie will NOT figure it out
Woolie: All I have are negative thoughts.
@Black Pilled Son but they were asking for it!
Woolie's genuine sincerity in a generation of fork-tongued liars is the only reason why people believe he is doing something wrong; explaining ones thoughts and steps towards the actions they took should always be respected and recognized for what it is: Honest.
Too pure for this sinful Earth
It's the That One Guy syndrome spoiling it for all the good-hearted Woolies out there.
thats a very nice comment
I had a similar thought as I was listening through this. Like some people, for whatever reasons they may have in their own lives, approach any engagement with other people from a standpoint of "okay, where's the lie?"
Indeed, he's a sincere modernist in a hyper-defensive post-modernist shithole of a culture too cowardly to present their ego properly. Also, he could really use an Azeron device if his hand feels THAT disgusted with the WASD movement method and the finger repositioning. It's even more optimal and ergonomic than a keyboard and no one could fault him for preferring it.
This was one of the most interesting segments I've seen in a podcast ever
to steal from another commentor, Woolie Will Figure It Out: Woolie
For some reason I thought the title was "Woolie (FINAL)"
Woolie and Pat are No Longer Friends
@@FutBoy281 at that point i would have to assume Pat is the problem
I can't believe Woolie fucking _died_ onstream!
@@FutBoy281 Woolie and Woolie are no longer friends.
Woolie has stolen the final pie.
Remember that time Woolie murdered that 3 day old cheesecake on the football field
...don't forget that Hobo found in the bushes behind the field
for breakfast!!!
In the rain
He did it all for the Hulk Doll
and the Atomic Purple GameBoy he was using as an undropped shield.
The Woolie mind goblins has never shown itself so hard ever before
Pat and Woolies Controller are no longer friends
Well I laughed, so I guess it's officially no longer too soon.
Pat calling Woolie crazy? A glass house was just shattered by a rock somewhere.
Pat fired a fucking cannonball out of his glass house into Woolie's yard.
Pat, in all his infinite wisdom, found a work around for this exact problem by surrounding his glass house with rocks.
@@-Cetus- damn. Must get drafty when he takes a shit now
More like a craning a glass house into another glass house.
An infinite number of glass houses contained within larger and larger glass houses.
I can't believe Pat forced that raw meat to get fired
I can't believe Pat forced that raw meat to get fried
I can't believe a piece of raw meat fired Pat from the force
believe
I can't believe Pat forced himself on fried meat.
I can't believe Pat tore into that metal can with his mandibles and rawed my meat
This is like watching a movie and they say the title in the movie and it's super ominous that it's an hour long
Imma be real with you.
Pat and Woolie are SUPER BEST FRIENDS.
No, they're something else... something more powerful... SUPER BEAST FRIENDS
@@LockjawGael I like that.
The more they deny, the more they are alike.
I felt really bad for Woolie during this. Him explaining his thought processes never sounded like excuses to me.
Lets not forget the time Woolie and Pat both profusely apologized and felt bad when they got stuff super wrong about that Jojo game
Or the 2 hour Indivisible debate.
Yeah, I mean explaining how you reached your conclusion, even if it's wrong, is a good thing. That way you can at least understand how they got to their conclusion
Yeah but just listen to 1:01:01... he's not talking about being wrong, he's talking about "agree to disagree". Explaining his reasoning so that you can realize his point of view is right for him. It's not unreasonable, but in the context of "I always admit when I'm wrong. If I over-explain, here's why..." it goes a bit off topic, and ends up supporting people who say he's dodging/making excuses.
Of all the things to give him crap for though, his "hybrid" set up is not a big deal.
If Pat was 30 years older he'd be hitting left handed kids with a ruler until they turn right handed
MMOs taught me spider typing. I will never quit.
@@Bigwigrah07 Pat wasn't a developer he doesn't think about min maxing typing speed. he was a tester, the dirty pigs of the gaming industry
The mind gobolins make the game fit the template OR ELSE.
@@TealWolf26 God thats the realest comment I've seen in a long time. I appreciate you.
This is just a transcript of Woolie’s autobiography.
I see you're taking the adventure time approach of making a longer than usual episode and naming it ominously after your main character a la "Finn the Human", "Jake the Dog".
Can't wait for part 2, "Pat"
Pat is even more ominous with it being short and the amount of slam you can have while saying his name even moreso if its in caps
Finn the Human, Jake the Dog and Woolie the Sealion
That one was Pat coming to tbe realization that not everyone in the world is out to screw you and continued on the subreddit
Pat, the man holding the toilet paper roll while peeing: YOU'RE CRAZY!
...with his pants around his ankles remarking: FEELS GOOD MAN
The man planking over the toilet with his dick in the bowl
@@malikoniousjoe The boy is too small for that, he would just fall inside.
in the dark
I can't believe that slab of raw meat that Woolie and Pat trained to play with hybrid controllers went to jail for tiger fraud... smh
"Went to jail for tiger fraud" is a damn good sentence!
what happened
@@mastermindepsilon9517 yeah wtf is this raw meat thing?
Woolie creates people out of raw meat and then eats them because he's racist against meat homonculi.
(Real answer: it's a topic they brought up in the podcast about exponentially growing falsehood from a telephone game style misinterpretation from people that never saw the original context.)
oh, ok
FINALLY, SOMEONE WHO UNDERSTANDS, i always got confused when i explained myself when i do something weird/wrong/stupid, and people got angry specially my parents, im not saying im not wrong i just trying that you understand so maybe you can give me feedback or just know why this happened, most of the time people always say "you are just making excuses, stop that, shut up"
Skim through the comments and watch other people not getting it and doing that exact thing to people trying to explain their thoughts. A lot of people probably are like Woolie (myself I think, maybe not) but don't have moments like this to call back to memory.
You'd think more people would understand the difference between an explanation and an excuse. I think people just like shutting down explanations as "excuses" because it gives them a sense of power & dominance over the other person.
@@Harril8265 Well, there's that, but also a lot of people may experience that exact "excuse after excuse" kind of thing in their lives. And stopped recognizing that not everyone does that. To play both sides though, obviously some people are not willing to see the difference (willfully ignorant) and some are just not aware enough and come off the wrong way.
the only explanation i ever got from my parents was "you made a mistake, the rest its useless information, you are wasting time on purpose, get over it"
@@MagnusPrimeZ That sounds irrationally dismissive, but I have one reason why I can understand that view. I have a form of schizophrenia, which among other things makes it a bit harder for me to process info that comes in. I recognize it in the moment when I say it, but I still tend to get angry when people give me way more than I need for a given task or question. And I do try to come back later and explain that I wasn't trying to be cruel or anything, I just can't deal with too much "extra" bouncing around my head.
I know EXACTLY how Woolie feels so hard. I know exactly how he feels. I go through shit like this *all* the time. Not understanding where others are coming from. Wanting to defend one own's side or at least explain how they got there. I don't think I've ever been mistaken for Sea-Lioning, but I know what that looks like. How people assume a lot of disingenuity and stuff. And one of the most knock it out of the ballpark lines of all of this is "You want to admit you're wrong, but you don't believe you're wrong." Because yeah. Sometimes that's how it is too. Sometimes it's the Evangelion or TWEWY thing of "You will *never* truly understand the other point of view", or even just "I know I'm 'wrong' it but it feels 'right'".
I think one of the big issues is the assumptions themselves. There's a lot of people who make an assumption and just roll with it as truth instead of verifying it.
@@lucidindarkness5019 Indeed. I too am guilty of thinking someone's longwinded explanation of things was just them trying NOT to apologise, but rather, explain why HE thinks he's right. I was angry and super frustrated that I never heard come out of their mouth. "You're right, man. I'm sorry, we cool?" That was all I was looking for.
@@NekoKujo6785 I'm not going to lie, a lot of times I've heard someone go into a long explanation, I'm actively listening and trying to parse out details. But I have muted/blunted emotions and a neutral face a lot of the time, so I see people scramble sometimes thinking I'm judging them when I'm just trying to hear them out. It honestly DOES suck that too many assholes have ruined the ability to believe someone is genuine.
@@NekoKujo6785 I've always believed that it's better for me to be proven wrong and know it for sure than it is for me to believe I'm right and never find out otherwise.
This is the quintessential Woolie episode, and 'Mind Goblins' is the quintessential Pat episode. They make up the best CSB segments of all time thus far.
This is the Castle Super Beast - Therapist Edition
Woolie is just trying to create a rockband drumset using controllers
I kind of admire Woolie just kinda... inventing his own weirdo-ass way to control Black Mesa.
HYBRID MASTER RACE, FUCK USING KEYBOARDS FOR VIDEO GAMES (except rts and mobas) #WoolieIsRight
@@He11Jumper Your crazy, but I respect your exceptions.
Yeah... but you recognize he's wrong though, right?
@@Samael1113 Honestly? If it works for him, it's in a weird way, right for him, i guess? It's wrong as hell for me though.
@@Mochachocakon you misspell shit, but I respect your opinion too
Hang in there woolie, we all gonna make it.
As someone who does this myself on a regular basis, how sincere you come across as is directly proportional to the _length_ of your explanation. If you can admit fault and simplify the explanation to the degree that it fits entirely within the same sentence, you're usually fine. If you can't, depending on who you're talking to it can be easier to just forego the explanation entirely.
One thing that comes in with this is realizing how much someone actually cares about how you got to where you are. The issue is not that you aren't clear enough, but that you're TOO clear, because your desire for other people to understand where you're coming from, or to validate your viewpoint, can overpower the actual content of what you're trying to say.
There's also the problem that, if you admit to being wrong, then quickly jump to a five minute tangent trying to justify your action, by the end, listeners are going to forget completely that you admitted guilt, if they even accept it at all, since that made up such a small portion of your statement.
If you feel compelled to explain things, try to condense your explanations into something simple. You tend to ask 'you know?' a lot during explanations, which comes off as rhetorical, but I gather you're actually seeking confirmation when you say this, and as no one is answering, you keep elaborating and beating that horse dead. I gather this is the case because it's something I have a habit of, myself. The answer to 'what do I do differently?' is to put a harder emphasis on that first 'you know?', then fight against your compulsion to keep talking, whether to fill dead air or otherwise. Give the others in the room more of a window to absorb and either follow up if they're interested or change the subject if they are not. You may find that often times, you care more about your mistake than anyone else in the room, and the conversation will quickly brush past it if you just simply let it go.
This is a great way to put it! keep the explanation short. If a person really cares about the full explanation, they will ask follow-ups
Best response I've seen on the topic so far.
It also helps when you show that you understand the problem. And when you ask a question, give the person the same time to respond, as you would like to be given to explain yourself.
Woolie: The overthinking man's Darlington.
I agree with Woolie. I'd definitely vomit in my shirt.
I'm glad to have listened through all of this. Pleased to hear this wasn't a catastrophe like I was worried about. Hold on to the ones you love Mr. Woolie Madden, cause there are lots of them. Hope the both of you crazy (in a good way) guys stay safe in the quarantine.
Getting Into Woolie: Woolie - Woolie of the Year Edition
You forgot '(FOR WOOLIE)'
@@fishes249 358 Woolsworth/ 2 Darlingtons HD FINAL WOOLIE Remix
Featuring woolie from woolie versus
@@FutBoy281 this is getting more convoluted than a questionable ebay listing!
Ultimate Madden 3 & Woolie 64-2 + Woolie's Minions
At the beginning of this video I was laughing at Woolie being crazy
Now at the end though, I am sympathizing with him, because I've been in the exact same situation in regards to trying to explain myself and not understanding people being dismissive of it.
I don't know how to feel about this, other than this touching something visceral in me and leaving me feeling super uncomfortable.
They r both crazy
There's a lot to unpack here but serious Props to Woolie for being so open to having his entire psychology cracked open for all to see like this. It takes a big man to see his 'faults' objectively and in real time.
Sometimes people just want their pound of flesh. It's the toll you pay for something. I get stink eye from people when we go out to eat for ordering my steak done well done. They don't want a dissertation on why I like my steak ruined, they just want to feel a little superior or have a little fun. And ultimately you're right, it super isn't fair for people like streamers and podcasters where a literal 100% joke about getting raw meat eating employees fired will eventually gain a life of its own and become a factual statement about your character.
You know what they should do? Get a meme phrase like Pat has before his crazy bullshit that lets people know the Woolie thing is about to happen. Thereby taking away its power.
It is as simple as “it’s okay, I don’t need to justify my preference”
And if necessary, sandbag beyond it until they understand that topic is now done
Also, on the controller thing, it actually kinda makes sense, that he just never developed that muscle memory for keyboard, so of course doing some weird hybrid thing would feel better for him. Like, sure he could put in the time to "get used to it" but honestly, if what he's doing feels good for him and works just as well, then I say go for it. You have people out here playing overwatch on a bunch of bananas wired up to the computer and somehow playing well; not to mention people with various issues/disabilities using special controllers/set ups. If it works, it works. I myself have recently been thinking about trying to work out something with foot pedals because carpletunnle is starting.
He's a grown man and can do what he wants, but honestly, instead of rigging up some weird hybrid setup, self-imposing rules and restrictions on himself, and developing bad habits, he _should_ have just learned kb+m from the start, and that's the same advice I'd give to anyone in that situation.
He's essentially being a picky eater, and the way you fix that is to stop ordering off the kids' menu and eat things even if you don't like them. Eventually you acquire the taste. Sometimes it's best to just force yourself through some discomfort.
Maybe it's too late for him now, but I'd say better late than never. This isn't necessarily a big deal, but he's always going to run into situations where his hodgepodge methods aren't supported and he's going to wind up losing out on fun times because of it.
@@SuzakuX What bad habits has he developed and what self-imposed rules and restrictions does he put on himself? What he does is nothing other than preference. It's essentially "I prefer a firmer matters because it's more comfortable." Why on gods green earth would he force himself to get used to sleeping on a softer, more uncomfortable matters? It's like forcing yourself to eat bananas when you could just as easily buy apples instead. Makes no sense.
@@Edward-Not-Elric It makes no sense because you're not trying to make sense of it. You have your stance on this and you're pushing back against people instead of seeing valid points being made. The underlying issue for both sides to see: Woolie is on a couch, with a specific setup most people don't have. Unless he actually gets comfortable with the same tool as Pat's, keyboard and mouse is not viable due to wrist concerns. And at the same time, the hybrid *is* kind of a bad habit because it's not actually solving the issue, it's just letting him get by with less issues.
Lucid In Darkness I think y'all need to learn how to agree to disagree
@@michaelmaguire4147 Are you saying that after that came up in the podcast or are you being genuine? Because if the other person doesn't *want* to have a conversation, fine, I only respond when there's a back and forth to gain something from. Otherwise, I like going into discusions like this; unless someone comes out swinging, I'm not assuming anyone's feelings are getting hurt.
God woolie and devil pat having a heart to heart
With mortal chat listening in
As someone with wrist/arm tendonitis i feel you Woolie- i also have horrible back pain when i sit, so i play games standing up with a hip-level shelf for support (great for arcade accurate fight stick feel too!)
The main problem with Pats whole argument against Woolie is that Woolies thing is a personal preference made for comfort reasons, while Pats weird quirks are biological compulsions made from his own internal mind goblins.
@Line Error how is that inconsistent? Just means he has a lot of problems, it'd be inconsistent if at some point he said any of those problems don't actually exist or even implied they're not actually problems
>his own internal mind goblins
Ummm excuse me. I think you mean family bloodline technique!
Those are the same things though. "Comfort" is just a universal mind goblin.
It's neither comfortable nor effective, watch his streams.
@@bennymountain1 are you saying that because you tried it for yourself?
8:18 "Nobody uses ctrl anymore"
Say what now? The default crouch button for every game ever is not used by anyone anymore? Well damn, guess I'm no one then.
Eidos, who Woolie tested for, by default binds crouch to C.
Extrapolating to the entire industry, from the one weirdass company that defies the standard.
I feel that though, I rebind control to alt or c in any game i play. LCtrl is such an awkward key to hit, my pinky has to bend backwards and i dont like it
@@Terramagu nobody in the world uses Metric anymore.
i don't know i always rebind it back to ctrl whenever i see crouch as C, it's just closer to the shift button so my pinky can use more buttons near it
@Boring Name I have the same problem with older games that break before they could handle being minimized. The Windows Key is the Devil, Bobby Bouche.
I love how cheery Pat is, not being in the hot seat for once.
Who would've thought that the guy who openly mocks "mind goblins" would have people waiting in the wings to mock their own.
Sure, there's also an combination of "just use the control method inherent to the platform" mixing with like 15 years of bad PC ports having bad KB/M setups being a free pass because "just use a controller, it's what it was designed for" while the inverse is CLEARLY not allowed to exist chafing at people.
But that's what it mostly is. People finally having an outlet when "the one sane man in the room" confesses to having a control method that literally rips the operating system apart as it switches between kernel modes every half a second.
Woolie Origins: *RAW MEAT*
this is like being a fly on the wall in a psychiatrists office
Sounds like Woolie's ideal controller is the Wii Nunchuk + Wiimote combo.
You say that but that's basically the perfect solution for the drawbacks of both regular controllers and keyboard and mouse controls. You have the joystick so you don't have to deal with a glorified dpad surrounded by other buttons that can easily be pressed while trying to move around on a 3d space, and you have the wiimote with gyro and ir sensors so you don't have to deal with the inaccuracies of trying to aim with a joystick. People made fun of people playing Modern Warfare on the Wii when in reality everyone else was playing the game in an inferior way.
Both of them have powerful mind goblins but the goblins are equally matched, so these two complement eachother perfectly. Its great to see
I just realized, through Pat and Woolies' conversation on it, that the phrase "let's agree to disagree on it" bothers me so much because I've rarely herd used the way Woolie thought it was used, and more in a dismissive way in arguments when poeple couldn't find a way to justify their side of the argument on why they do something shitty, like when I argued with an old lady at my old job about gay and trans rights, and all of her arguments were just shitty and didn't justify anything, or when a former client of mine assumed women were only speaking up about rape for money. That phrase always seemed like a dismissive defense mechanism to stop you from actually questioning your world view and look into things deeper than "That's the way it's always been."
Wait, why are you talking about religion or politics at work in the first place? Don't... don't do that.
@@Chubbz969 I was young, stupid, and emotional, plus trump had just been elected when I argued with the old lady, who was a co-worker. She brought the religion shield in when I brought up stuff about trans and gay rights stuff up. The other guy was 3 years later on my "break" (100 hour work weeks at "live in" jobs don't give you much time for sleep or breaks) and he just randomly brought up Bill Cosby and Harvey Weinstein. It was an insightful conversation on who I was working for, I'll say that much.
But that is the problem with idioms. As they aren't crafted words that express your feelings, people can take the triteness of it and do whatever they can to misinterpret it.
It's like after you break up and someone says "There are other fish in the sea". There are a million reasons to get bothered by that phrase. You don't want another fish. Your pain is great now. You don't want to think about another relationship.
But I think the most galling thing is that this is a time of serious emotion and someone can't even come up with some original thoughts to say. Just a canned phrase that is used in B rated Rom-coms. Just as you say, it comes off dismissive when you were raw and uncut. Sayings have no place in genuine exchanges of emotions.
"Agree to disagree" to many people just equals "I'm losing so I'm going to stop talking. You're wrong but I'm going to let you think you're right. I'm bored of this conversation." Or some other iteration of that. Not "Both our opinions are valid but not right for the other person, so we can just accept each other for who we are."
Dated: 4/29/2022
I am excited for next week’s podcast for “Woolie Part 2: Not Listening Tendency”
Why everyone calling Woolie crazy? He just said that it's just a personal thing, you see on the tone of his voice that he has a problem with WASD and that's it, if he was like Pat he would make a whole sociological and physical argument about how WASD is the worst and ignore anything agaisnt his arguments
And on a side note I have something similar, I refuse to hold a xbox controller ever again, I did once and it was the most uncomfortable gaming experience up to this day.
I agree, while I personally don't enjoy hybrid it doesn't negatively affect me that woolie does like it, he isn't saying wasd sucks he just doesn't like it fair enough
In this case I still think he should go for the keyboard, the fact that he has to scroll through weapons is going to consistently hurt him. In HL2 I believe there's a weapon wheel which should make it fine
@@JoeHeisler he did say he is using his mouse side buttons for weapon switching so no difference to using numbers on akeyboard
See I have the opposite problem, I’d rather replay all my PS3 games on other systems, even Jak II Fucking Hard, if it means I don’t have to look at a DS3 ever again. That controller feels like it’s going to disintegrate in my hands.
@@Comkill117 My favorite controller until now still is the DS2, because with each hand I can press all the button of each side with no effort and using all my fingers, DS3 even tho is basically the same feels heavier but when I got a ps4... after the DS5 reveal, at this point I could just buy a xbox and start using prosthetics because there's no escape for me anymore
Pat trying to understand and explain to woolie how he might come off and them both having a calm dialogue about all this gave me warm fuzzy feelings :')
The fact that Pat tries to argue against Woolie just preferring something for (among other things) comfort reasons is really funny.
Woolie actually uses "agree to disagree" correctly, it's "supposed to be" about opinions, because opinions can and will be different between different people, the problem is that some people try to use it when talking about facts just to end an argument, and also more and more people regard their opinions as facts. Also, maybe I just have the same kinda crazy as Woolie, but I'm the same way with trying to follow the logic on how I got to an incorrect conclusion when I'm wrong (maybe it's a debugger habit).
Considering how many arguments he's had with Pat "the brick wall" Boiven, it's only natural he'd say that phrase a lot.
I think it also has value as a way to express, "Look, we've been going in circles for a while, and neither one of us has made any headway. Clearly neither of us is going to persuade the other, and frankly I'm tired of talking to you about this, so can we just drop this and still be civil to each other?"
Sometimes, you just can't get through to the other guy, or you can, and they simply disagree. Not everyone has to be on the same page, and more to the point, not everyone is GOING to be.
Braxton Spaulding I mean true, sometimes even when presented with facts people refuse to change their minds.
I also care more about learning where the problem was to prevent future problems but different people got different motivations.
@ the part where they talk about when someone pronounces something wrong or calls something the wrong thing 100% of the time:
I had a manager at work (retail) who would ALWAYS refer to aisle 19 as "the poultry aisle." Aisle 19 contains paper plates, cups, and plastic silverware. Our aisles aren't named, only numbered, so she could have just called it aisle 19, but no, always "the poultry aisle" every time. She would say it over the walkie talkies and everyone just figured out what she meant by context clues and never mentioned it. The best I could think of was that she was thinking of the word "cutlery" and didn't know that poultry means bird meat, which was nowhere near that area.
Standing here.
I realise.
You were just like me.
Trying to fight mind Goblins
"i like woolie because he's a SNK fan, just like me!" i wrongly thought
now i know, i like woolie because i feel the same exact impulse of "explaining why am i wrong" and people just call that i'm full of shit.
The way I see it is that everyone has their own amount of crazy that others can't truly understand no matter how hard or little they try. I am slightly on the spectrum and was told this at a very young age so I think of social interaction a lot so that I don't seem weird so I would plan out dialogue trees in my head for every type of conversation. When I think of people defending them self I think of it as the branch in the tree that means you're digging in your heels to potentially start an argument. So when I say something to someone about how I think they're wrong and they start to defend them self it feels like they haven't listened to what I said. I think Woolie can't just admit he's wrong and stop there, this is because he's terrified of misinterpretation but doesn't understand that what he does to explain himself just causes more misinterpretation. I think a way you can help this is if you explain the big stuff but just "yeah I was wrong" on small stuff. Currently you always feel like you have to explain yourself but you can just say "I was wrong" and people would understand that more than an explanation.
Woolie saying there are no landmines is a complete falsehood. He literally built his setup to get around them. That is the point of his setup.
I can see the frustration of years and the resignation with knowing your friends won't change on Pat's face.
This conversation is just two incredibly powerful mind goblins muda muda'ing each other for an hour straight.
I've never empathized so much with a man as i have with Woolie in this Podcast. I do the. exact. same. thing.
and for a DECADE my family and friends thought i never admitted I was wrong.
I too regret buying a steam controller.
I got it for a dollar and even I regret it.
when all the controllers were on sale for cheap af but they sold out, smh
I was gifted one
It makes me sad because it had potential
I love it for what it could have been
The Steam Controller is a concept that I've always wanted to exist as an alternative to M+KB, but it sucks that the execution fell short.
I don't, but I got a head start on having it be playable for me because the muscle memory from Splatoon's Gyro and Kid Icarus: Uprising's Touch-Trackball controls carried over for me. So while I could feel that some of you guys aren't giving a chance... I can't imagine being able to stand trying to get used to a controller for more than a month , so I can't really say you guys don't have a valid reason for not liking the Steam Controller.
I guess in a way, it's like the controller version of "The game gets good 20 hours in" for you guys, and I can't blame you for not putting up with that.
Woolie’s concept of needing to provide ‘breadcrumbs’ for his actions and thoughts is actually something I can really relate to, and I also followed his attempts to do so in the past. I can empathize a lot with the thought process of needing to provide context and an explanation in order to give and gain some kind of understanding and awareness of the ‘why’. So for what it’s worth, you have at least one on your side Wools
That's a title to put fear in my heart.
Thing is, Pat's methods of explaining his oddities is about as clear cut and "my reality is the only one that makes sense", demonstrated 100% perfectly when he talked about why he kept dropping an entire roll of toilet paper into the toilet.
Woolie is able to explain (with RATIONALE) why he is the way he is, he can write an essay, deliver it on a podcast episode, deliver a thesis statement with proofs.
Pat's rationale is "Cause" (more or less).
If we get one of these for Pat, you know it'd have to be about 5 hours. For parts one and two.
Woolie will (not) figure it out
I'd still love every second of it.
Ok Woolz, I’ll open up, I have OCD and I use vynil gloves when I’m on the pc or playing on console so I don’t get the keyboard/controllers dirty
Woolie argues that comfort is the reason for his crazy setup but complains constantly about how uncomfortable it is to get there.
I believe you just want to explain your thought process, but when you start explaining it really sounds:
"Hey i know it looks like i did something wrong, but the process of thinking was actually right, its only the result that didn't match.
So you see i was right initially by X-logic process of thinking which sounds solid, yet the result is the problem since it didn't coincide.
You see? The resulting action seems crazy nonsense, but the process was solid." Which really sounds a stubborn way to not admitting you were wrong.
What Pat does is either say "ops" or some phrase to try to make it sounds like it didn't matter or bother him being wrong, which makes chat mad/pissy. OR he just stays quiet and for the next 1-2 minutes people pointing and laugh at him, then drop that after.
Man the first 10 minutes have thoroughly convinced me Woolie has some janky wrists. Maybe that arcade stick theory is right...at the end of the day there's gotta be something wrong with me when I'm agreeing with Pat on an issue.
Not necessarily, you may just have a closer experience to Pat (....) than to what Woolie is experiencing. Doesn't make it wrong, just different.
Maybe Woolie's wrists suck at pronation? Old injury? Punching problems?
I've got friends who havent played fighting games for nearly as long as Woolie, and they've had to switch to hitboxes because their wrists are boned.
@@phoenixsplash135 Do hitboxes offer all the same functionality while solving the wrist issues period? Or do they just allow you to heal and not keep taking damage?
@@lucidindarkness5019 Some things are easier to do on a hitbox, some things are harder, its mostly a preference thing. I guess it depends what was causing your pain? If its the hand and wrist position (like what Woolie talks about with using a keyboard) then I dont think it would help much, but if its all being caused by doing motions with a stick then it would be a huge help.
I just take off all my clothes to use my gamer cube with my hybrid controller and mouse. You guys are nuts
Woolie is put on trial for something literally everyone does/has done at some point
This is legitimately one of my favorite podcast moments. The funny stuff is great and all, but this was a very real situation where 2 friends tried desperately to understand each other and work through an issue that's affected them for years.
For every person that says "This segment was boring" for stuff like this, I hope I speak for many more when I say please feel free to keep these in as much as you want. It's incredibly interesting and the genuineness of it all is part of why I really enjoy you guys.
Mankind knew they can't change the Pat, so instead of reflecting to themselves they Blamed the Woolie.
Heaven
Or
Hell
Duel 1
Lets Rock!
But they beauty in the lives of Woolie and couldn’t lie to themselves about it
Pat Gate Keeps Woolie About Controller Preferences - The Feature Length Film
I actually thought they were gonna throwdown for a second there.
For a moment there I started to feel like a little kid again. Like "Is dad getting angry again? Oh shit! Hide!" kinda flashback.
I honestly had to pause the video and take a few minutes and remember these two dorks are friends and sometimes get confrontational over stupid things and then go back to being chill again.
Is this Pat's "we're kindred spirits" villain moment?
"You know Woolie...we are not so different, you and I.
We could take this world together"
Honestly I admire Woolie’s openness to grow. I agree with Pat that he’s not ACTUALLY sealioning. Fuck chat. I love these guys. I’m glad something totally uninteresting (a game I don’t know about and control preferences) ended up being something totally interesting and relatable.
This is the "Grew Up Watching RUclips" equivalent of a Greek peasant watching philosophers discuss.
33:46 For the sound banks
I fully understand Woolie. I get called pretentious all of the time because I always clarify statements with information beforehand. I do it because I want to clarify communications (make sure I'm on the same page with whomever I am talking to), not because I want to act like "I'm so smart," but that is how many people take it.
I too am a wordy man and get into trouble for it. Short and concise can in some situations be more powerful than weight of evidence. It's REAL hard for me.
I feel the need to say “if you’re not going to listen to me explain myself, why are we talking about it?” Often
Pat's argument about food opinions applies here. You can talk all the logic you want, but at the end of the day you either like something or you don't. Woolie does not like mouse/keyboard controls and the way they feel, but Pat is trying to logic him out of that opinion and is getting frustrated that he can't.
Except back during the sbfc days when overwatch came out, he explicitly said "I know that I just have to keep playing with keyboard and mouse and get good at some point"
He's putting up roadblocks so that he doesn't have to play keyboard and mouse.
@@BigBearMan Why is it important that he does? This is the problem. He doesn't want to use keyboard/mouse. Fuck it. Leave it alone
@@GreekJR2 No this isn't the problem, this is someone pointing out his acknowledgment of the issue and then watching him "roadblock" his own progression. And it isn't that he doesn't want to use it, it's that he's currently uncomfortable with it *right now*. Telling someone to leave it alone is in the same mindset as the people screaming to "just use keyboard and mouse". Just because you don't want to go deeper with a conversation doesn't mean you get to tell others to drop it.
@@lucidindarkness5019 You are screaming at someone to play your way. Drop it.
@@GreekJR2 You're assuming a lot to think I'm someone pushing Woolie to use keyboard when he doesn't want to. I'm arguing against flawed logic, I don't particularly care which choice Woolie makes, it's his choice.
Still one of the most interesting segments in Castle Super Beast