Fun fact: when I refer to Nico as a Pole, originally in the script I referred to him as a Polack. Because that's what one of the bikers referred to him as. It almost made it into the video until I had a sudden realization of "wait, is that a slur?" Apparently it can be considered a slur, though it varies from person to person. So I decided to re-record the line to be safe and respectful.
(polish person here) it is used as a slur by people of other nationalities but in Polish it's the same as a Pole so its probably the case that others just heard Poles calling themselves "Polack" (Polak) and made it a slur xd so at the same time it a slur and it isnt but i figure most Poles would not get offended (from my experience they dont even know that its supposed to be offensive)
The heroin is also a major plot point interconnecting all 3 games, just like the diamonds: - Jim confirms in TLaD that the heroin got to LC in the Platypus, just like Niko and the diamonds, it was bought by the Triads, then later stolen by the AOD; - Billy uses Jason's death to steal it from the AOD; - Johnny tries to sell with it Niko and Elizabeta's help, the buyer was an undercover cop, which leads to the FIB investigating The Lost, which is the reason Billy tries to testify against them in the endgame; - Billy sends Johnny to sell the heroin back to the Triads, as a ploy to get Johnny killed, this results in the Triads getting the heroin back; - Later in GTA IV proper, Phil Bell sends Niko to steal the same heroin back from the Triads and deliver it to his nephew in north Alderney; - In IV's endgame, Pegorino tries to cut a deal with Dimitri to sell this same heroin, Dimitri backstabs him and loads the heroin back into the Platypus to sell it outside of LC; - After Dimitri's death, Bulgarin's men take the heroin and move it across Hove Beach; - In TBoGT's last mission, Luis kills the Russian mob in Hove Beach and finally destroys the heroin. It's a reoccurring theme in GTA IV that the Platypus arrived in LC with things that brought misery and death to the city: the heroin, the diamonds and Niko himself. The heroin was the worst one though, and that's shown by the fact it was destroyed, the diamonds made that homeless guy rich, and Niko also brought joy to the lives of many people.
Also, I think a news thing in the game reveals that everyone who was on the Platypus ended up either dead or missing. You can find an article talking about how it was basically abandoned. Additionally, it gets destroyed in the Multiplayer missions.
I always found it cool yet hilarious how the three characters are both helping/screwing each other over and aren't even aware of it. In the main game after you beat diamonds are a girls best friend you can call Roman (alot of the missions after you beat you can call Roman for a unique phone call) niko will say that luis was there with Tony and he saw him during the diamond deal. Maybe that was a tease for TBOGT?
He also mentions how he has seen "the same dominican looking guy" multiple times and even accurately recalls which times. Roman doesn't seem to be too fazed and sees it as a mere coincidence. But this, for me, is the definitive proof that Rockstar planned out the storylines before making the DLCs and had an idea where they were going. This phone call basically spits it all out. There is something going on with this dominican looking guy, who appears every now and then. Johnny involvement was even more obvious given how they have been working together... and screwing each other without knowing it. It's especially ironic since they seem to respect each other, when they are working together.
@@PadelbootStudios yeah they were planned as far back as 2006 where they confirmed that the Xbox 360 version would get exclusive timed dlc as part of a deal with Microsoft. I take it Rockstars dream gta game would be different characters in different cities like what gta 1 did. You can see it with the 3d games a little and gta 4 did 3 characters in the same city, while gta 5 did the switching to them. So I'm guessing at some point they wanted to remake the gta 1 idea at some point, probably not gonna happen but it would be ambitious.
Just to inform you. The homeless man that found the diamonds did set off to become very rich. You can find this out when tuning into one of the games radio stations. They speak about the homeless man got himself a jet plane and went to live in Vice City
I really hated Trevor, even before I played The Lost and the Damned. They screwed Johnny over hard. Trevor is just disgusting. Great acting performance but I tend to play as Franklin most.
There's only one "the" in The Lost And Damned. Annoyance out of the way, I love that the story is so fleshed out that you can pinpoint what mission in what game canonically comes in what order
The closest game I can think of that did something similar to what gta 4 did with it's stories inter connecting is the yakuza games. Yakuza 4,5 and 0 do it and it's really cool to see.
this is pretty damn cool as someone who appreciates heavily interwoven stories. it shows the writers put a lot of thought into it even if they may not have known everything at the beginning. no plot points wasted and the story was written efficiently. W vid as always
Was looking forward to this kind of video from you when I saw the revenge one! Luckily I've been playing GTAIV a lot too and I also love this plot because I've been doing a ton of research into it and can clarify some points in your vid (will edit as I watch): - As to whether this was planned out or done later, Microsoft spent about 75 million dollars on funding the episodes and making them a timed exclusive for the 360 and they were actually announced by Peter Moore on the same press conference GTAIV was announced and he got that tattoo of it. So the episodes were in development sometime during the tail end of IV's production ending, with the plot points somewhat planned in advance - I think unfortunately it kind of reveals a negative of this era of gaming and of DLC in general: because of how meticulously planned and high quality TLAD and TBOGT are, they essentially had to start making it during the development of IV and thus it doesnt benefit financially or feedback-wise from being truly post-launch like a lot of quicker to make, cheaper to produce DLC does. They still managed to tweak things somewhat, TLAD's bike handling improvements came from people not liking how Vanilla's bikes worked and TBOGT's tone change came from IV specifically being noted as being a bit depressing (they had already written all of TLAD by the time IV was out) - I dont like bringing up V in IV discussions because I like both and find the rivarly silly but I think the consequence of making V's protags all friends is unlike Niko, Luis and Johnny there's no fun mission or story beats where you actively sabotage the other in V. I think that's what V missed in the implementation of this Trinity idea into its gameplay -There's actually a ton of dialogue you can get depending on mission order or whether youve failed before which helps clarify plot points as well as a site on the in-game internet that was never updated post-launch which includes the criminal records of various IV, TLAD and TBOGT characters. So for example we know that the fat bald bearded white guy in "No Way on the Subway" is Jim because of the game files labelling him as such, him using Jim's bike and the criminal record reading deceased when you beat that mission. We do however get some interesting edits to the story that TLAD and TBOGT did in retrospect like originally Ashley was Billy Grey's "old lady" - I actually did a lot of research into this due to someone mentioning they thought Tony was never meant to be Tony in the mission "Diamonds are a Girl's Best Friend", so I did some digging and found a ton of mentions in IV of Tony being friends with Gracie in the LCPD records, Ray mentions him being the original owner of the diamonds and Bulgarin specifically says he thinks Tony and Luis ripped him off after they leave with Niko saying "maybe that homosexual man originally owned them, maybe it was Bulgarin, idk" - I also what I love about the usage of Brucie and Roman in the Episodes is how they really help you root for them in a lot of ways. We hear that Roman gambles constantly off-mission and getting that clarification helps, but I also think Mori acts as a good foil to Brucie because while Mori seems more successful superficially it's somewhat implied he's essentially a burnout crashing on Brucie's couch because he doesnt have anywhere to go and that perhaps the money lent to Tony was not Mori's to spend but that's a personal theory - I also think Ray is greatly benefited characterization-wise via TLAD, because it helped clarify to me why everyone seems to hate him. I'm not going to get into Ray apologetics because he is a criminal but I always felt that for as much they talked about him being "a rat" I always felt he did right by Niko and his mob. He even seems to legitimately care about Ashley. Then you see Johnny's perspective and this to me with his whole "conflict of interests" spiel implies to me along with Phil mentioning that Ray didnt tell Jimmy P or him about the diamonds that Ray was specifically getting these diamonds in order to gain enough money to eclipse The Peg in power and perhaps try to take over the old Guernsey Crew - And TLAD also helps Dimitri's characterization out as well as to round out what I feel is the "theme" of GTA IV and that's the idea of being a big fish in a small pond vs. a small fish in a big pond. Elizabeta, Dimitri and Jimmy P's downfall come from overextending their influence past their little ponds and realizing they dont have the kind of power to keep the big fish from swallowing them. Elizabeta could've been the Queen of Bohan until she died but had to make a ton of corpses in order to be "the big boss", Dimitri was 2nd in command to the Russian Mafia which was doing great in Broker but Dimitri had to call in help from the old country and try to unseat the commission, Jimmy P could've enforced his grip in Alderney but let the Pavanos walk all over him because he thought he could get a seat with John Gravelli if he did so. TLAD showcases more of Elizabeta's body count and both Episodes show how much more powerful the Russian Mafia is under Dimitri and Bulgarin but also how under Faustin it ruled the roost whereas in the Episodes it's fighting for scraps - As for Bulgarin, I think the pronunciation is just due to Luis and Tony having different dialects and not knowing how it's pronounced. I could be wrong tho, depends on if Bulgarin ever says his own name in either? Bulgarin I feel is one of the few misfires of the Trinity, because I get what they were going for in TBOGT but I didnt think it stuck the landing. I think with IV's Bulgarin he wasnt deep or anything because we didnt know him yet but I feel like TBOGT wanted to show the contrast between Bulgarin when doing business and Bulgarin when in his own element. I like the concept, but I feel they didnt have Bulgarin actually show contrast due to TBOGT's lighter tone. What I would've done is had Bulgarin as this cold, all business maniac when in the mission Going Deep and when he turns on Luis but keep the lighter comedic stuff during the mission intros. Then you get a unique character setup: a villain that tries to loosen up and have fun when youre his friend but comes off lame but then you realize he is actually dangerous when youre his enemy - I also want to point out that the cleverest subtle bit of storytelling in IV I feel is during the mission "Pest Control" for Jimmy P: Jimmy thinks someone is squealing, but there never was a rat. The reason why there never was a rat is because the Russian Mafia had the same problem under Faustin, they did too much too quickly and when Faustin says there's a rat Dimitri points out they just have done stupid and loud things and if they lay low they'll be fine. Jimmy didnt have a Dimitri to point this out, Phil's too paranoid, Ray's too much of a suck up who wants to convince Jim to kill Phil and Niko just doesnt care - I also think that giving each episode its own artstyle of sort of helps to convey the difference moods of the story, Luis is an optimist and thus he has a soft blue color filter which really comes alive at night, Johnny has the sepia tone vibe which implies to me how he feels oppressed by the city and Niko has a gloomy fog and brownish tint which implies mystery and sadness but not outright hostility - What's cool as well is how the radio factors into the lore, not only with news reports but there's also the fact that Vladivostock FM in TBOGT plays Eurodance/Europop instead of Eastern European hip hop and indie is because canonically midway thru the story the station is bought out and essentially rebranded. This is because the IRL radio station VFM is based off of went thru the same thing in 2009 when the episodes were coming out -There's also some radio broadcasts which are in vanilla GTA IV which set up events in the Episodes, which is confirmed by them happening after their respective missions. For example Tony's clubs get closed in TBOGT, but in IV late in the game they outright mention this in an internet article, where I think the reason given is "drug running" which could be a retcon or an in-universe coverup. Tony's money troubles are mentioned in "Out of the Closet (pt. 2)" so could be the latter. The bikers fighting the triads is also mentioned in the radio - I also think it's specifically stated or implied that TLAD ends around the mid-point of IV, since No Way on the Subway is around halfway into IV and it's the 2nd last mission of TLAD. it also fits since TBOGT starts around midway into IV so there's almost a reason put into the DLCs as to why these events that take Niko 80 missions happen in around 20 for Luis and Johnny. Technically they arent - Yea originally Rockstar wanted to do a three - simultaneous - protags story since San Andreas. It was abandoned due to technical issues, workshopped in IV and finally implemented in V - I massively agree regarding Ray, it feels like they should've rewrote IV and TLAD before putting them out in order to give Johnny some kind of conclusion. I feel like they could've cut like 20 missions from IV and given ten each to the DLCs to help with this. Johnny or Jim should've killed Ray and Pest Control could've involved maybe helping track Ray on behalf of the bikers, with Peg's logic being that Ray would try to have a deadman's switch that would move his resources towards sabotaging Peg if he knew his boss was coming after him so helping the bikers who already hate him would get them off the Alderney Mob's back and get rid of a supposed liability like Ray But yea I love this shit. I should probably watch Pulp Fiction or Rashomon since I love this so much, but I think there's something special about three separate experiences happening simultaneously from different POVs rather than one experience with multiple POVs baked into the storytelling. It's something only a game, comic, TV show or something otherwise "episodic" can do
In terms of the chronological end of each game: TLAD ends first about 2/3 the way through IV (and around the halfway or 2/3 point of TBOGT presumably based on when you do Not So Fast). As TLAD's final mission takes place immediately after Niko kills Jim, but before he kills Ray Boccino. IV comes next. Factoring in TBOGT, it ends between the events of Ladies Half Price and Departure Time (with Party's Over and possibly For the Man Who has Everything happening in between). The fact Bulgarin was able to take and move Dimitri's H after his death suggests there is some time between those events, but not much. This also suggests that Diamond's Are A Girl's Best Friend happens near the very end of the story (in-game you can do almost the entire chain around the 1/2 point (around the 50 or 60s point in mission count), or even save it to be the last mission before the endgame). And lastly TBOGT as mentioned already, which concludes after the end of IV. Maybe a couple days or a week. And if you count them, the three multiplayer missions appear to take place after the end of TBOGT, as it involved Kenny Petrovic returning to America and blowing up the Platypus.
I wish that Johnny was able to kill Ray instead of Niko and that he was present for Jim’s death. Jason’s death being off-screen at least adds to Billy’s deception. Have Johnny go after Jim in “Was it Worth It?” only to find him dying of his wounds, giving those two a final scene together. For Ray’s death, have “Get Lost” be a longer mission, where Johnny takes out Boccino AND Grey. Johnny cuts all his ties in one final mission. Then, instead of Ray’s men trashing the clubhouse being the reason they burn it, the Lost formally decide to disband and burn it down to avoid any fallout- from both the mafia and the police. As for GTA IV’s main story, Pegorino would mention Ray’s “disappearance”. Could be a cool Donald Love-like mystery until TLAD confirms what happens. This could even add to Jimmy’s paranoia. Not sure what “Pest Control” would end up being w/o Ray’s involvement, but they could’ve had it been Phil Bell instead. The original plan was for that mission to be a choice between Boccino and Bell anyway.
I would have honestly dropped the whole subplot of Pegorino wanting to wack one of his associates. It didn't amount to much outside of that one mission. Then you can have Ray disappear from Nico's perspective and have Johnny take him out, since he's not super important to Nico's story by that point.
@@TBP I agree with that as well, the whole Pegorino side of GTA IV was always underwhelming to me. It should’ve been the Ancelotti Family or something.
@@FeralCabbage tbh: I think it works to really show how much of Joke Pegorino was. His storyline showed that even no matter if you helped him or not he dies regardless because he's a joke. Also that was not a family but a crew. Ray was real one because he died fighting; honestly he was loyal and man of his word just people fucked him over. Johnny brought that on himself from stealing from him and Pegorino killed him even thou he was loyal as to him. Hell, Ray helped Nico found Bernie.
@@FeralCabbageI think that Ray Bulgarian and Jimmy Pegorino should have swapped game prevalence. Jimmy becomes the antagonist of the Ballad of Gay Tony because Tony pissed him off somehow while Ray continues on after "Diamonds are a Girl's Best Friend" and becomes the secondary antagonist of IV during the third act as he teams up and/or gets betrayed by Dimitri later on.
I agree Johnny should've been the one to kill Ray but Niko killing Ray off made sense too because Ray sent his men to actually kill Niko and Johnny at the diamond exchange at the Museum. Except killing him was not for that reason.
14:09 - Been a thing since the late 19th century. For anyone interested, there’s a RUclips documentary called The Cobblestone Wars which explores the rise of the Jewish Mob from street gangs and pretty much the origins of the wise guy mobster that everyone’s familiar with nowadays.
The cobblestone wars sound like the winning side just needed to find iron. Anyway as a jew i was so happy that there's a Jewish mob in gta iv. Especially because they all look the jews from the neighborhoods in Israel that are really religious and don't go to the army like any other Israeli citizen when they turn 18 (jews, druze and any other citizen), which makes me and many people in Israel really hate them and the fact they don't contribute their part because they are "studying the bible" and some other bullshit like that.
A really good example of a game that does this is Suikoden 3. It has three main protagonists, a secondary protagonist, and an antagonist, all playable with interwoven stories. All five of these playable characters are seeing a large scale territorial conflict from different sides. Also, you get to play as a mostly useless dog as a sixth playable character. It's rather hard to get a hold of, but I strongly recommend anybody who likes good storytelling play it.
Years ago when I was able to get a copy of the GTA 4 trilogy, I hope between games to experience the full plot of the games, it amazes me how well it was done
Always loved the intertwined mission structures in all of the GTA 4/Episodes of liberty city! Tbogt has the best pause menu music while 4 and tlad has the darkest
I think The Lost And The Damned has the best pause music showing that Johnny does eventually become lost and damned. Not to mention the harmonica representing hoping for better in life.
All these GTA 4 videos is going to make me want to revisit it. I have always thought of this installment as my least favorite of the series (1 & 2 excluded).
I wish there was a mode in the complete edition where you play the game chronologicaly. Im picturing something like the Catwoman dlc in arkham city (even though it was also not exactly chronological). Maybe the parking spaces could still be the same so you could for example steal a bike that Johnny parked in his clubhouse as niko. Another idea is to make a system that tracks how you play so that if you where walking in a certain street in monday at 15:00 and later when you boot up tlad you could find niko walking around that street when its Monday 15:00. That would be really emesive and awesome, and would make the fact the games are taking place in the same time make sense
The only game that has a convergent or parallel story lines thats not a david cage game that I can think of would be COD3. Which I thought was neat as the 3 campaigns lead to other missions. Like the allied tanks with the POV character of the Polish tankers being the reinforcements for the Americans. The British sabotaging key areas scouted and noted by the Canadians. The Canadians clearing a path for the Americans and rescuing the Polish armour. And the Americans leading the charge and holding the city as the germans are slowly but effectively boxed into one area.
Around 10 years prior to the GTA IV trilogy, Valve experimented with interconnected stories in Half-Life. While its' two expansion packs were outsourced to a different dev team, Marc Laidlaw (Valve's main writer at the time) gave guidance to Gearbox on how the plots for Opposing Force and Blue Shift would tie into the main HL narrative. The expansions may not have been planned from the start, but they still took care to maintain as tight a continuity across the games' depictions of the Black Mesa Incident. Since these take place over a much shorter timespan compared to IV's missions, some have even taken to creating an almost real-time playthrough of the events using the synchronized parallel POVs of the protagonists. This timeline also includes another campaign which much like the Episodes of Liberty City, was once exclusive to consoles. ruclips.net/video/uXn50yVez44/видео.htmlsi=QnHnPMDe1E9poR73
This video’s timing could not have been better considering I just got GTA 4 on Steam recently (I have it on PS3 from when I was young but I only did free roam stuff while my brother and sibling actually did the missions lol). Guess this gives me an incentive to play through it!
I think this video and the one before it support what I have been thinking for a while. Ray Bulgarin should have been the main antagonist in the revenge ending. He is just as much of a threat to Niko as Dimitri was, so he too had to be taken out. Ray should have died in tlad. You can still have that last mission where you kill Billy, because main antagonist doesn't always mean final antagonist, see JoJo part 7. This leaves tbogt without a main antagonist, but I think you could have used Rocco for that role. I mean, he wants to get rid of Tony because he wants to run the nightclubs, so the idea of him using his own goons, maybe working with Bulgarins men and maybe even a desperate Pegorino, whom he promised the white stuff. I think, that this could have worked ou.
That's a good idea. As much as I like TBOGT. Bulgarin being the antagonist felt forced. Rocco being the antagonist doesn't and wouldn't Rocco be dead when Luis denied the deal as Ray's gang is right outside the building.
There is the Multiplayer only Story Missions that are canonically the last things to happen in GTAIV's Timeline. But in terms of strictly single player... Ballad of Gay Tony is the Finale of GTA4.
As for games with multiple inteconnected stories... I also love this stuff, one of them is the first Half Life and its expansion packs, and second one that comes to mind is Aliens vs Predator 2, where the stories are also interconnected (I think that most AvP games do this to some extent).
Well first I’d like to touch on the way that not many GTA 4 characters appear in GTA 5, which is also true of San Andreas and Vice City. Secondly I don’t agree that Ray is Johnny’s main antagonist because Billy appears much more and his release from rehab plays a huge role in the story. Ray however is a much more powerful character than Billy, even at the height of the Lost MC’s power in 2008. Johnny’s crew was too weak to handle a war with the mob, so it fits the narrative told in GTA 4. As for Bulgarin vanishing, the Ballad explains that well, with his business interests tarnished and Dimitri killed, Ray attempts to flee Liberty City and would’ve likely came back to finish things with Niko as well, however Niko has his own problems with Dimitri and possibly Jimmy, and my head canon is that by the end of GTA 4, Niko doesn’t have the strength to continue feuds. The chronological order seems messy yes, but if you see GTA Series Videos’ gameplay you can see then logically narrowing down the order of missions.
I recently replayed the entire trilogy in chronological order for the first time and and man, it is very different from the other GTA. It was depression city after depression city
I've read (probably on TV Tropes, so whether true or if I even remember it correctly are both uncertain), the multi protagonist thing was meant for San Andreas (one per city), then used for IV and its DLCs before finally becoming the crux of V.
This just makes me more sad that all the modern GTA universe is GTA4+DLC and GTA5. Like I'm sure GTA6 will have some characters from the two popping up along with fan service and name drops, but it's just compared to the 3D universe, it's too little in the span of time it's taken to get there. Obvious turn-around time on developing the new game and all, but it's hard to not compare it to the five we got in less time than the gap between GTA4 and 5 let along 5 to 6.
Any other games with intertwined stories? Fahrenheit is first that comes to mind, where they somehow managed to blend controlling both the wanted man and the police without, both sides making progress and stuff, without making it feel contrived or like either one is favoured. I always thought they did pretty good with that
I know this isnt a twisted metal video, but I thought you'd like to know that twisted metal harbor city has been found, and it's almost a complete build, still not entirely a full build, definitely still needed time in the oven. But you can play it, and it's the currently known latest build of the game, with a fully functional overworld, and the parts where you drive into the battles to do them. Thought you'd like to know not sure how else to tell you.
Realest title that perfectly describes the game and it's DLC, IV was definitely leading into something bigger towards V. But as y'all know, bigger doesn't mean better and oh boy i CANNOT wait to be proven right on how bad V is when VI comes out. Ok maybe not bad, but "just good" isn't good enough for me, especially when talking about Rockstar who so far don't miss. V is gonna be so irrelevant, it's already outdated even. I have so much dislike over how mid they handled the 3 protagonists story, the only good thing that came out of this one and ONLY unique selling point of this game, is the seamless character switching...yay. Too bad the story is mid, i wish every mission was as good as "Bury The Hatchet" and that every character was as unique, interesting and fun as our boy Lamar. Not only was the story mid by they TLOU2 Johnny out of it, this to me is a CLEAR diss towards everything IV achieved and stood for. I too was poisoned by the dislike towards IV following the months/years of it's release, our thoughts echoed to the devs as well while making V and with the death of Johnny, now in hindsight it's clear to me that they did that out of spite for all the groundness that IV brought to the series. SA fans like myself were rejecting IV for what it wasn't in this series rather than what it is, so by having Johnny killed the devs clearly stated that they are not doing anything that IV did. I'm happy RDR2 turned out to be a masterpiece and while that may not be the case with VI (at least when it comes to writing because...if you know you know) i'm very hopeful and suspecting that the devs (alongside other GTA fans) have realized that throwing IV under the bus was a terrible idea. Btw TLAD is by far my fav DLC, not because of Johnny but because of the weapons and atmosphere. (again atmosphere with this game) The street sweeper is one of my fav guns to use in my fav games that allow me to use it (like Payday 2...which did it kinda dirty, i think it's terrible and unusable without dragons breath rounds, but since i'm so committed to that gun, changing my build to suit it's needs is a small price to pay) and again just cruising around with the homies never gets old to me. TBOGT doesn't resonate with me as much because i don't like clubs, (unless i'm...you know committing GTA in them) there's no theme better for me than brotherhood (which TLAD had plenty of) and Yusuf can't carry my interest by himself. All the characters were great and interesting btw, i just happen to like Yusuf more than the rest that's why i mentioned him. Also am i the only one that feels like TLAD is like RDR2 on a smaller primitive scale? I also want to add that by ending Bulgarins story from Nikos perspective is kinda reasonable. I mean Niko always tried getting away from his cos he's too powerful so you basically cannot touch him. Finishing Nikos story thinking Bulgarin is still out there is fine at least imo, kinda goofy that Louis destroyed everyone including the plane Bulgarin was in, but it was a perfect way for him to end this story Alsoalsoalso since you asked in the end, Hotline Miami 2: Wrong Number. I am biased af, i didn't give HM a chance when it was new and popular, now since i can give anything i want a chance i fell in love with them both. Eventually i realized 2 was my fav game of all time since i played it so much and the story is just 1 reason as to why. It's the reason i consider TLOU2 a poor man's Hotline Miami 2 but i may be crazy on that, at least that's what i'm lead to believe since no one cares to debate me on it...i managed to get someone though on Tw@ and i won so...i'm still convinced TLOU2 is a poor man's HM2. HM1 is even featured as an easter egg briefly on a random that Ellie stabs the throat of who was playing on a PS Vita....interesting decision of an easter egg Neil Cuckman....very interesting
No joke before i played Tbog. I thought luis was with Johnny and Niko when doing the drug trade but that was Little Jacob. I wish that was Luis. Just 1 scene where they're on the same side.
The 2 gta iv dlc expansions that crossover with gta iv are kinda similar to the 3 half-life expansions which all tell the same story as half-life from a different perspective and also all crossover with each other
the homeless man with the diamonds is seen in the credits of tbogt in a lavish house dancing with bikini clad women, hes also on the radio news that says hes going to open a liquor store and gun store in vice city
To answer your question, the Resident Evil franchise is another set of games that has interweaving stories and characters at the same time. But, GTA did it much better.
depends on when you play it, i actually did Hostile Negotiation in my 100 percent playthru way after I did Museum Piece by putting off Photo Shoot until I had to, but actually in TLAD I *think* you have to do Roman's Holiday in order to unlock the Museum mission
@@maydaymemer4660 roman gets kidnapped when they live in bohan the mission cutscene takes place at the bohan apartment roman goes. Inside the bohan safehouse after the cutscene
@@TordaiJenoArthurJenci that's because Hostile Negotiation is the mission that unlocks the Algonquin safehouse, with X's being optional, because in that mission Roman says he's going to get them an apartment and afterwards he wins enough money gambling to get one. You dont have any other safehouse by that point of the story unless you do Boccino's missions plus Derrick's missions. I get what you mean, lore-wise it probably didnt happen later but you can do Hostile Negotiation way later into the game because the mission Photo Shoot for Playboy X unlocks the Whiz phone which unlocks the ability to get that mission I played the missions in this weird order where I actually did the Gracie kidnapping plot before I did the Roman kidnapping mission and there was a continuity error where the game thought I did Hostile Negotiation in the post-mission phone call to Roman where Niko asks "what was being kidnapped like?" I essentially did it in this order: - Museum Piece - I'll Take Her - Pegorino's Pride - Photo Shoot - Hostile Negotiation - Weekend at Florian's Because of this I managed to unlock the Alderney safehouse before any Algonquin one. It's a weird order! Kinda fits in some ways, because doing the kidnapping missions while you're still working for Ray explains why the McCreary's ask for the diamonds
GTA IV it's my second rank after GTA SA, Very grounded and feel realistic the kind of game i like. But it second rank because the exploration is worse than GTA SA which okay because it's "City" and money to spend. GTA IV is not masterpiece but close enough when you think GTA IV as GTA 3 new chapter to HD universe.
San Andreas definitely has the most varied map of all, with lots of interesting and different locations. Even though V is also supposed to be in the same area, the more rural parts of that map are nowhere as compelling, and the general design of it just puts the entire focus on Los Santos, with the rest just being mostly mountains and highway.
@@chromasus9983 Gta Sa just has that feeling of Adventure, The Map is pretty well designed, when even a road shortcut is memorable. GTA V is great game but show nothing great for, three protagonist is good concept but kinda safe. Then GTA online came along ruin everything rockstar become lazy GTA V dlc canceled....those dlc might redeem GTA V. I have no doubt they recycle dlc content for online pretty lazy. And now many of their franchise in coma.
No they arent 😂 there is no causality between the characters. They just appear on eaxh others stories. Its brainless to think "omg look its that chacacter i recognise therefore its a great story". No. It could ve replaced with generic NPC and still have the same effect. Raise your standards
Fun fact: when I refer to Nico as a Pole, originally in the script I referred to him as a Polack. Because that's what one of the bikers referred to him as. It almost made it into the video until I had a sudden realization of "wait, is that a slur?"
Apparently it can be considered a slur, though it varies from person to person. So I decided to re-record the line to be safe and respectful.
Can you please contact the Jury in Norway........ It has been a long time since our defendant (Kratos) fled from the Greek Jury
Hes a generic Slavic person...
He’s not a polack he’s a gentleman
I find it amusing how Billy, a very chaotic person took time to correct Brian on Niko's ethnicity.
(polish person here) it is used as a slur by people of other nationalities but in Polish it's the same as a Pole so its probably the case that others just heard Poles calling themselves "Polack" (Polak) and made it a slur xd so at the same time it a slur and it isnt but i figure most Poles would not get offended (from my experience they dont even know that its supposed to be offensive)
The heroin is also a major plot point interconnecting all 3 games, just like the diamonds:
- Jim confirms in TLaD that the heroin got to LC in the Platypus, just like Niko and the diamonds, it was bought by the Triads, then later stolen by the AOD;
- Billy uses Jason's death to steal it from the AOD;
- Johnny tries to sell with it Niko and Elizabeta's help, the buyer was an undercover cop, which leads to the FIB investigating The Lost, which is the reason Billy tries to testify against them in the endgame;
- Billy sends Johnny to sell the heroin back to the Triads, as a ploy to get Johnny killed, this results in the Triads getting the heroin back;
- Later in GTA IV proper, Phil Bell sends Niko to steal the same heroin back from the Triads and deliver it to his nephew in north Alderney;
- In IV's endgame, Pegorino tries to cut a deal with Dimitri to sell this same heroin, Dimitri backstabs him and loads the heroin back into the Platypus to sell it outside of LC;
- After Dimitri's death, Bulgarin's men take the heroin and move it across Hove Beach;
- In TBoGT's last mission, Luis kills the Russian mob in Hove Beach and finally destroys the heroin.
It's a reoccurring theme in GTA IV that the Platypus arrived in LC with things that brought misery and death to the city: the heroin, the diamonds and Niko himself. The heroin was the worst one though, and that's shown by the fact it was destroyed, the diamonds made that homeless guy rich, and Niko also brought joy to the lives of many people.
It's unfortunate that those details are somewhat hard to keep track of, especially when some of it relies on gameplay dialogue.
Also, I think a news thing in the game reveals that everyone who was on the Platypus ended up either dead or missing. You can find an article talking about how it was basically abandoned. Additionally, it gets destroyed in the Multiplayer missions.
I always found it cool yet hilarious how the three characters are both helping/screwing each other over and aren't even aware of it. In the main game after you beat diamonds are a girls best friend you can call Roman (alot of the missions after you beat you can call Roman for a unique phone call) niko will say that luis was there with Tony and he saw him during the diamond deal. Maybe that was a tease for TBOGT?
He also mentions how he has seen "the same dominican looking guy" multiple times and even accurately recalls which times. Roman doesn't seem to be too fazed and sees it as a mere coincidence. But this, for me, is the definitive proof that Rockstar planned out the storylines before making the DLCs and had an idea where they were going. This phone call basically spits it all out. There is something going on with this dominican looking guy, who appears every now and then. Johnny involvement was even more obvious given how they have been working together... and screwing each other without knowing it. It's especially ironic since they seem to respect each other, when they are working together.
@@PadelbootStudios yeah they were planned as far back as 2006 where they confirmed that the Xbox 360 version would get exclusive timed dlc as part of a deal with Microsoft. I take it Rockstars dream gta game would be different characters in different cities like what gta 1 did. You can see it with the 3d games a little and gta 4 did 3 characters in the same city, while gta 5 did the switching to them. So I'm guessing at some point they wanted to remake the gta 1 idea at some point, probably not gonna happen but it would be ambitious.
8:39 correction: The Lost narrowly avoided the ire of Niko
Just to inform you. The homeless man that found the diamonds did set off to become very rich. You can find this out when tuning into one of the games radio stations. They speak about the homeless man got himself a jet plane and went to live in Vice City
I forget is 6 going to be set in Vice City?
Would be cool if they brought this back, just to have some more real callbacks to previous entries.
@@Hi_Just_Fredyes, it is in Vice City, and if I remember right, he had plans to open an Ammu-Nation down there
@@NSK-y5sgun and liquor shop in one not Ammunation
Also he didn’t get a private jet he did move to vice city tho
@@chancellor1055 never said he got a private jet.
@@NSK-y5s not you I meant the commenter
johnny didnt deserve it
yep Trevor sucks
TLOU 2 before Naughty Dog.
Agreed 👍💯
I really hated Trevor, even before I played The Lost and the Damned. They screwed Johnny over hard. Trevor is just disgusting. Great acting performance but I tend to play as Franklin most.
Johnny should've let Ashley go. She caused absolutely nothing but trouble.
homeless dude who was in gta 4 better be in 6, because its stated he went to vice city after he found the diamonds
Ithink he owned the pawn shop that the main characters rob on the trailer.
My favourite of the 3 Protagonists formula they’ve done in GTA. I always thought the whole GTA IV and it’s DLC’s should’ve been a TV series.
There's only one "the" in The Lost And Damned.
Annoyance out of the way, I love that the story is so fleshed out that you can pinpoint what mission in what game canonically comes in what order
It only gets a bit weird when two or three GTA IV missions happen during a single TLAD mission
The closest game I can think of that did something similar to what gta 4 did with it's stories inter connecting is the yakuza games. Yakuza 4,5 and 0 do it and it's really cool to see.
The Coca sub-plot is funnier everyone who get hold it somehow having bad luck dying,locked, betrayed, etc. The thing is cursed like Phill Bell said.
Dude's keep posting banger after bangers
this is pretty damn cool as someone who appreciates heavily interwoven stories. it shows the writers put a lot of thought into it even if they may not have known everything at the beginning. no plot points wasted and the story was written efficiently. W vid as always
Was looking forward to this kind of video from you when I saw the revenge one! Luckily I've been playing GTAIV a lot too and I also love this plot because I've been doing a ton of research into it and can clarify some points in your vid (will edit as I watch):
- As to whether this was planned out or done later, Microsoft spent about 75 million dollars on funding the episodes and making them a timed exclusive for the 360 and they were actually announced by Peter Moore on the same press conference GTAIV was announced and he got that tattoo of it. So the episodes were in development sometime during the tail end of IV's production ending, with the plot points somewhat planned in advance
- I think unfortunately it kind of reveals a negative of this era of gaming and of DLC in general: because of how meticulously planned and high quality TLAD and TBOGT are, they essentially had to start making it during the development of IV and thus it doesnt benefit financially or feedback-wise from being truly post-launch like a lot of quicker to make, cheaper to produce DLC does. They still managed to tweak things somewhat, TLAD's bike handling improvements came from people not liking how Vanilla's bikes worked and TBOGT's tone change came from IV specifically being noted as being a bit depressing (they had already written all of TLAD by the time IV was out)
- I dont like bringing up V in IV discussions because I like both and find the rivarly silly but I think the consequence of making V's protags all friends is unlike Niko, Luis and Johnny there's no fun mission or story beats where you actively sabotage the other in V. I think that's what V missed in the implementation of this Trinity idea into its gameplay
-There's actually a ton of dialogue you can get depending on mission order or whether youve failed before which helps clarify plot points as well as a site on the in-game internet that was never updated post-launch which includes the criminal records of various IV, TLAD and TBOGT characters. So for example we know that the fat bald bearded white guy in "No Way on the Subway" is Jim because of the game files labelling him as such, him using Jim's bike and the criminal record reading deceased when you beat that mission. We do however get some interesting edits to the story that TLAD and TBOGT did in retrospect like originally Ashley was Billy Grey's "old lady"
- I actually did a lot of research into this due to someone mentioning they thought Tony was never meant to be Tony in the mission "Diamonds are a Girl's Best Friend", so I did some digging and found a ton of mentions in IV of Tony being friends with Gracie in the LCPD records, Ray mentions him being the original owner of the diamonds and Bulgarin specifically says he thinks Tony and Luis ripped him off after they leave with Niko saying "maybe that homosexual man originally owned them, maybe it was Bulgarin, idk"
- I also what I love about the usage of Brucie and Roman in the Episodes is how they really help you root for them in a lot of ways. We hear that Roman gambles constantly off-mission and getting that clarification helps, but I also think Mori acts as a good foil to Brucie because while Mori seems more successful superficially it's somewhat implied he's essentially a burnout crashing on Brucie's couch because he doesnt have anywhere to go and that perhaps the money lent to Tony was not Mori's to spend but that's a personal theory
- I also think Ray is greatly benefited characterization-wise via TLAD, because it helped clarify to me why everyone seems to hate him. I'm not going to get into Ray apologetics because he is a criminal but I always felt that for as much they talked about him being "a rat" I always felt he did right by Niko and his mob. He even seems to legitimately care about Ashley. Then you see Johnny's perspective and this to me with his whole "conflict of interests" spiel implies to me along with Phil mentioning that Ray didnt tell Jimmy P or him about the diamonds that Ray was specifically getting these diamonds in order to gain enough money to eclipse The Peg in power and perhaps try to take over the old Guernsey Crew
- And TLAD also helps Dimitri's characterization out as well as to round out what I feel is the "theme" of GTA IV and that's the idea of being a big fish in a small pond vs. a small fish in a big pond. Elizabeta, Dimitri and Jimmy P's downfall come from overextending their influence past their little ponds and realizing they dont have the kind of power to keep the big fish from swallowing them. Elizabeta could've been the Queen of Bohan until she died but had to make a ton of corpses in order to be "the big boss", Dimitri was 2nd in command to the Russian Mafia which was doing great in Broker but Dimitri had to call in help from the old country and try to unseat the commission, Jimmy P could've enforced his grip in Alderney but let the Pavanos walk all over him because he thought he could get a seat with John Gravelli if he did so. TLAD showcases more of Elizabeta's body count and both Episodes show how much more powerful the Russian Mafia is under Dimitri and Bulgarin but also how under Faustin it ruled the roost whereas in the Episodes it's fighting for scraps
- As for Bulgarin, I think the pronunciation is just due to Luis and Tony having different dialects and not knowing how it's pronounced. I could be wrong tho, depends on if Bulgarin ever says his own name in either? Bulgarin I feel is one of the few misfires of the Trinity, because I get what they were going for in TBOGT but I didnt think it stuck the landing. I think with IV's Bulgarin he wasnt deep or anything because we didnt know him yet but I feel like TBOGT wanted to show the contrast between Bulgarin when doing business and Bulgarin when in his own element. I like the concept, but I feel they didnt have Bulgarin actually show contrast due to TBOGT's lighter tone. What I would've done is had Bulgarin as this cold, all business maniac when in the mission Going Deep and when he turns on Luis but keep the lighter comedic stuff during the mission intros. Then you get a unique character setup: a villain that tries to loosen up and have fun when youre his friend but comes off lame but then you realize he is actually dangerous when youre his enemy
- I also want to point out that the cleverest subtle bit of storytelling in IV I feel is during the mission "Pest Control" for Jimmy P: Jimmy thinks someone is squealing, but there never was a rat. The reason why there never was a rat is because the Russian Mafia had the same problem under Faustin, they did too much too quickly and when Faustin says there's a rat Dimitri points out they just have done stupid and loud things and if they lay low they'll be fine. Jimmy didnt have a Dimitri to point this out, Phil's too paranoid, Ray's too much of a suck up who wants to convince Jim to kill Phil and Niko just doesnt care
- I also think that giving each episode its own artstyle of sort of helps to convey the difference moods of the story, Luis is an optimist and thus he has a soft blue color filter which really comes alive at night, Johnny has the sepia tone vibe which implies to me how he feels oppressed by the city and Niko has a gloomy fog and brownish tint which implies mystery and sadness but not outright hostility
- What's cool as well is how the radio factors into the lore, not only with news reports but there's also the fact that Vladivostock FM in TBOGT plays Eurodance/Europop instead of Eastern European hip hop and indie is because canonically midway thru the story the station is bought out and essentially rebranded. This is because the IRL radio station VFM is based off of went thru the same thing in 2009 when the episodes were coming out
-There's also some radio broadcasts which are in vanilla GTA IV which set up events in the Episodes, which is confirmed by them happening after their respective missions. For example Tony's clubs get closed in TBOGT, but in IV late in the game they outright mention this in an internet article, where I think the reason given is "drug running" which could be a retcon or an in-universe coverup. Tony's money troubles are mentioned in "Out of the Closet (pt. 2)" so could be the latter. The bikers fighting the triads is also mentioned in the radio
- I also think it's specifically stated or implied that TLAD ends around the mid-point of IV, since No Way on the Subway is around halfway into IV and it's the 2nd last mission of TLAD. it also fits since TBOGT starts around midway into IV so there's almost a reason put into the DLCs as to why these events that take Niko 80 missions happen in around 20 for Luis and Johnny. Technically they arent
- Yea originally Rockstar wanted to do a three - simultaneous - protags story since San Andreas. It was abandoned due to technical issues, workshopped in IV and finally implemented in V
- I massively agree regarding Ray, it feels like they should've rewrote IV and TLAD before putting them out in order to give Johnny some kind of conclusion. I feel like they could've cut like 20 missions from IV and given ten each to the DLCs to help with this. Johnny or Jim should've killed Ray and Pest Control could've involved maybe helping track Ray on behalf of the bikers, with Peg's logic being that Ray would try to have a deadman's switch that would move his resources towards sabotaging Peg if he knew his boss was coming after him so helping the bikers who already hate him would get them off the Alderney Mob's back and get rid of a supposed liability like Ray
But yea I love this shit. I should probably watch Pulp Fiction or Rashomon since I love this so much, but I think there's something special about three separate experiences happening simultaneously from different POVs rather than one experience with multiple POVs baked into the storytelling. It's something only a game, comic, TV show or something otherwise "episodic" can do
This GTA is awesome. Watching this vid makes me wanna play the whole campaign, once more
In terms of the chronological end of each game:
TLAD ends first about 2/3 the way through IV (and around the halfway or 2/3 point of TBOGT presumably based on when you do Not So Fast). As TLAD's final mission takes place immediately after Niko kills Jim, but before he kills Ray Boccino.
IV comes next. Factoring in TBOGT, it ends between the events of Ladies Half Price and Departure Time (with Party's Over and possibly For the Man Who has Everything happening in between). The fact Bulgarin was able to take and move Dimitri's H after his death suggests there is some time between those events, but not much. This also suggests that Diamond's Are A Girl's Best Friend happens near the very end of the story (in-game you can do almost the entire chain around the 1/2 point (around the 50 or 60s point in mission count), or even save it to be the last mission before the endgame).
And lastly TBOGT as mentioned already, which concludes after the end of IV. Maybe a couple days or a week.
And if you count them, the three multiplayer missions appear to take place after the end of TBOGT, as it involved Kenny Petrovic returning to America and blowing up the Platypus.
I wish that Johnny was able to kill Ray instead of Niko and that he was present for Jim’s death. Jason’s death being off-screen at least adds to Billy’s deception.
Have Johnny go after Jim in “Was it Worth It?” only to find him dying of his wounds, giving those two a final scene together.
For Ray’s death, have “Get Lost” be a longer mission, where Johnny takes out Boccino AND Grey. Johnny cuts all his ties in one final mission. Then, instead of Ray’s men trashing the clubhouse being the reason they burn it, the Lost formally decide to disband and burn it down to avoid any fallout- from both the mafia and the police.
As for GTA IV’s main story, Pegorino would mention Ray’s “disappearance”. Could be a cool Donald Love-like mystery until TLAD confirms what happens. This could even add to Jimmy’s paranoia. Not sure what “Pest Control” would end up being w/o Ray’s involvement, but they could’ve had it been Phil Bell instead. The original plan was for that mission to be a choice between Boccino and Bell anyway.
I would have honestly dropped the whole subplot of Pegorino wanting to wack one of his associates. It didn't amount to much outside of that one mission. Then you can have Ray disappear from Nico's perspective and have Johnny take him out, since he's not super important to Nico's story by that point.
@@TBP I agree with that as well, the whole Pegorino side of GTA IV was always underwhelming to me. It should’ve been the Ancelotti Family or something.
@@FeralCabbage tbh: I think it works to really show how much of Joke Pegorino was. His storyline showed that even no matter if you helped him or not he dies regardless because he's a joke. Also that was not a family but a crew.
Ray was real one because he died fighting; honestly he was loyal and man of his word just people fucked him over. Johnny brought that on himself from stealing from him and Pegorino killed him even thou he was loyal as to him.
Hell, Ray helped Nico found Bernie.
@@FeralCabbageI think that Ray Bulgarian and Jimmy Pegorino should have swapped game prevalence.
Jimmy becomes the antagonist of the Ballad of Gay Tony because Tony pissed him off somehow while Ray continues on after "Diamonds are a Girl's Best Friend" and becomes the secondary antagonist of IV during the third act as he teams up and/or gets betrayed by Dimitri later on.
I agree Johnny should've been the one to kill Ray but Niko killing Ray off made sense too because Ray sent his men to actually kill Niko and Johnny at the diamond exchange at the Museum. Except killing him was not for that reason.
Fun fact: in gta 4 police computer, you can check the profiles of the protagonists from gta China Town wars. The more you know ;)
14:09 - Been a thing since the late 19th century. For anyone interested, there’s a RUclips documentary called The Cobblestone Wars which explores the rise of the Jewish Mob from street gangs and pretty much the origins of the wise guy mobster that everyone’s familiar with nowadays.
The cobblestone wars sound like the winning side just needed to find iron. Anyway as a jew i was so happy that there's a Jewish mob in gta iv. Especially because they all look the jews from the neighborhoods in Israel that are really religious and don't go to the army like any other Israeli citizen when they turn 18 (jews, druze and any other citizen), which makes me and many people in Israel really hate them and the fact they don't contribute their part because they are "studying the bible" and some other bullshit like that.
GREAT VIDEOS MAN YOUR AWESOME! GREAT WORK! 🎮
The best intro i have ever seen.
sweet more GTA 4 content from Bacon
A really good example of a game that does this is Suikoden 3. It has three main protagonists, a secondary protagonist, and an antagonist, all playable with interwoven stories. All five of these playable characters are seeing a large scale territorial conflict from different sides. Also, you get to play as a mostly useless dog as a sixth playable character. It's rather hard to get a hold of, but I strongly recommend anybody who likes good storytelling play it.
Years ago when I was able to get a copy of the GTA 4 trilogy, I hope between games to experience the full plot of the games, it amazes me how well it was done
Always loved the intertwined mission structures in all of the GTA 4/Episodes of liberty city!
Tbogt has the best pause menu music while 4 and tlad has the darkest
I think The Lost And The Damned has the best pause music showing that Johnny does eventually become lost and damned. Not to mention the harmonica representing hoping for better in life.
GTA 4 is a masterpiece 💎
All these GTA 4 videos is going to make me want to revisit it. I have always thought of this installment as my least favorite of the series (1 & 2 excluded).
GTA Series Videos made a playlist of all the missions in the 3 games in chronological order, but as you said, there's some ambiguity
“Wouldn’t you know who won the pony?” Is probably one of my favorite Jim Cornette sayings of all time and I’m glad someone else uses it
I wish there was a mode in the complete edition where you play the game chronologicaly. Im picturing something like the Catwoman dlc in arkham city (even though it was also not exactly chronological). Maybe the parking spaces could still be the same so you could for example steal a bike that Johnny parked in his clubhouse as niko. Another idea is to make a system that tracks how you play so that if you where walking in a certain street in monday at 15:00 and later when you boot up tlad you could find niko walking around that street when its Monday 15:00. That would be really emesive and awesome, and would make the fact the games are taking place in the same time make sense
The only game that has a convergent or parallel story lines thats not a david cage game that I can think of would be COD3. Which I thought was neat as the 3 campaigns lead to other missions. Like the allied tanks with the POV character of the Polish tankers being the reinforcements for the Americans. The British sabotaging key areas scouted and noted by the Canadians. The Canadians clearing a path for the Americans and rescuing the Polish armour. And the Americans leading the charge and holding the city as the germans are slowly but effectively boxed into one area.
Around 10 years prior to the GTA IV trilogy, Valve experimented with interconnected stories in Half-Life. While its' two expansion packs were outsourced to a different dev team, Marc Laidlaw (Valve's main writer at the time) gave guidance to Gearbox on how the plots for Opposing Force and Blue Shift would tie into the main HL narrative. The expansions may not have been planned from the start, but they still took care to maintain as tight a continuity across the games' depictions of the Black Mesa Incident. Since these take place over a much shorter timespan compared to IV's missions, some have even taken to creating an almost real-time playthrough of the events using the synchronized parallel POVs of the protagonists. This timeline also includes another campaign which much like the Episodes of Liberty City, was once exclusive to consoles.
ruclips.net/video/uXn50yVez44/видео.htmlsi=QnHnPMDe1E9poR73
This video’s timing could not have been better considering I just got GTA 4 on Steam recently (I have it on PS3 from when I was young but I only did free roam stuff while my brother and sibling actually did the missions lol). Guess this gives me an incentive to play through it!
That's also the same Homeless man Vlad pushed over too.
Oh damn. That's the definition of Elton John's. I'm still standing.
I think this video and the one before it support what I have been thinking for a while. Ray Bulgarin should have been the main antagonist in the revenge ending. He is just as much of a threat to Niko as Dimitri was, so he too had to be taken out. Ray should have died in tlad. You can still have that last mission where you kill Billy, because main antagonist doesn't always mean final antagonist, see JoJo part 7. This leaves tbogt without a main antagonist, but I think you could have used Rocco for that role. I mean, he wants to get rid of Tony because he wants to run the nightclubs, so the idea of him using his own goons, maybe working with Bulgarins men and maybe even a desperate Pegorino, whom he promised the white stuff. I think, that this could have worked ou.
That's a good idea. As much as I like TBOGT. Bulgarin being the antagonist felt forced. Rocco being the antagonist doesn't and wouldn't Rocco be dead when Luis denied the deal as Ray's gang is right outside the building.
I cannot unhear “Ray Pocino” as “Rape-A-Chino” which I assume is a very unpleasant Dunkin’ Donuts item
If you want a game that contains multiple characters with their stories intertwining, check out Hotline Miami 1 and 2.
There is the Multiplayer only Story Missions that are canonically the last things to happen in GTAIV's Timeline. But in terms of strictly single player... Ballad of Gay Tony is the Finale of GTA4.
I laughed way too hard at the "not an actual pole" line 😂
Fallout: New Vegas respectfully intertwined the overarching story through its level design through its DLCs
18:30 this actually appears as news at the end of GTA IV
As for games with multiple inteconnected stories... I also love this stuff, one of them is the first Half Life and its expansion packs, and second one that comes to mind is Aliens vs Predator 2, where the stories are also interconnected (I think that most AvP games do this to some extent).
Well first I’d like to touch on the way that not many GTA 4 characters appear in GTA 5, which is also true of San Andreas and Vice City. Secondly I don’t agree that Ray is Johnny’s main antagonist because Billy appears much more and his release from rehab plays a huge role in the story. Ray however is a much more powerful character than Billy, even at the height of the Lost MC’s power in 2008. Johnny’s crew was too weak to handle a war with the mob, so it fits the narrative told in GTA 4. As for Bulgarin vanishing, the Ballad explains that well, with his business interests tarnished and Dimitri killed, Ray attempts to flee Liberty City and would’ve likely came back to finish things with Niko as well, however Niko has his own problems with Dimitri and possibly Jimmy, and my head canon is that by the end of GTA 4, Niko doesn’t have the strength to continue feuds. The chronological order seems messy yes, but if you see GTA Series Videos’ gameplay you can see then logically narrowing down the order of missions.
Ken Rosenberg has a bigger role in SA than any 4 characters in 5,even Tommy was supposed to appear but didn't because of issues with Ray Liotta
Oh cool Infamous mention
BRING IT BACK SONY!!
As for another game that does this kinda of storytelling well... Resident Evil 6
Uploaded 13 minutes ago, watched it 7 times already.
Fun fact: the guy who ended up getting the diamonds was bumbed by Vlad when he took niko for a long ass walk earlier in the main story
I recently replayed the entire trilogy in chronological order for the first time and and man, it is very different from the other GTA. It was depression city after depression city
I've read (probably on TV Tropes, so whether true or if I even remember it correctly are both uncertain), the multi protagonist thing was meant for San Andreas (one per city), then used for IV and its DLCs before finally becoming the crux of V.
This just makes me more sad that all the modern GTA universe is GTA4+DLC and GTA5. Like I'm sure GTA6 will have some characters from the two popping up along with fan service and name drops, but it's just compared to the 3D universe, it's too little in the span of time it's taken to get there. Obvious turn-around time on developing the new game and all, but it's hard to not compare it to the five we got in less time than the gap between GTA4 and 5 let along 5 to 6.
Gta Chinatown Wars is in the modern universe too
video games!! yeah!!!!
Hey... This isn't a Twisted Metal video.... (20 minutes into the video) [Kidding... Good Work man!]
Any other games with intertwined stories? Fahrenheit is first that comes to mind, where they somehow managed to blend controlling both the wanted man and the police without, both sides making progress and stuff, without making it feel contrived or like either one is favoured. I always thought they did pretty good with that
Started listening to this video while i was in the middle of playing this game.
I know this isnt a twisted metal video, but I thought you'd like to know that twisted metal harbor city has been found, and it's almost a complete build, still not entirely a full build, definitely still needed time in the oven. But you can play it, and it's the currently known latest build of the game, with a fully functional overworld, and the parts where you drive into the battles to do them.
Thought you'd like to know not sure how else to tell you.
I want to play this game Soo bad.
Realest title that perfectly describes the game and it's DLC, IV was definitely leading into something bigger towards V. But as y'all know, bigger doesn't mean better and oh boy i CANNOT wait to be proven right on how bad V is when VI comes out. Ok maybe not bad, but "just good" isn't good enough for me, especially when talking about Rockstar who so far don't miss. V is gonna be so irrelevant, it's already outdated even. I have so much dislike over how mid they handled the 3 protagonists story, the only good thing that came out of this one and ONLY unique selling point of this game, is the seamless character switching...yay. Too bad the story is mid, i wish every mission was as good as "Bury The Hatchet" and that every character was as unique, interesting and fun as our boy Lamar. Not only was the story mid by they TLOU2 Johnny out of it, this to me is a CLEAR diss towards everything IV achieved and stood for. I too was poisoned by the dislike towards IV following the months/years of it's release, our thoughts echoed to the devs as well while making V and with the death of Johnny, now in hindsight it's clear to me that they did that out of spite for all the groundness that IV brought to the series. SA fans like myself were rejecting IV for what it wasn't in this series rather than what it is, so by having Johnny killed the devs clearly stated that they are not doing anything that IV did.
I'm happy RDR2 turned out to be a masterpiece and while that may not be the case with VI (at least when it comes to writing because...if you know you know) i'm very hopeful and suspecting that the devs (alongside other GTA fans) have realized that throwing IV under the bus was a terrible idea. Btw TLAD is by far my fav DLC, not because of Johnny but because of the weapons and atmosphere. (again atmosphere with this game) The street sweeper is one of my fav guns to use in my fav games that allow me to use it (like Payday 2...which did it kinda dirty, i think it's terrible and unusable without dragons breath rounds, but since i'm so committed to that gun, changing my build to suit it's needs is a small price to pay) and again just cruising around with the homies never gets old to me. TBOGT doesn't resonate with me as much because i don't like clubs, (unless i'm...you know committing GTA in them) there's no theme better for me than brotherhood (which TLAD had plenty of) and Yusuf can't carry my interest by himself. All the characters were great and interesting btw, i just happen to like Yusuf more than the rest that's why i mentioned him.
Also am i the only one that feels like TLAD is like RDR2 on a smaller primitive scale? I also want to add that by ending Bulgarins story from Nikos perspective is kinda reasonable. I mean Niko always tried getting away from his cos he's too powerful so you basically cannot touch him. Finishing Nikos story thinking Bulgarin is still out there is fine at least imo, kinda goofy that Louis destroyed everyone including the plane Bulgarin was in, but it was a perfect way for him to end this story
Alsoalsoalso since you asked in the end, Hotline Miami 2: Wrong Number. I am biased af, i didn't give HM a chance when it was new and popular, now since i can give anything i want a chance i fell in love with them both. Eventually i realized 2 was my fav game of all time since i played it so much and the story is just 1 reason as to why. It's the reason i consider TLOU2 a poor man's Hotline Miami 2 but i may be crazy on that, at least that's what i'm lead to believe since no one cares to debate me on it...i managed to get someone though on Tw@ and i won so...i'm still convinced TLOU2 is a poor man's HM2. HM1 is even featured as an easter egg briefly on a random that Ellie stabs the throat of who was playing on a PS Vita....interesting decision of an easter egg Neil Cuckman....very interesting
Ok Crispy bacon
No joke before i played Tbog. I thought luis was with Johnny and Niko when doing the drug trade but that was Little Jacob. I wish that was Luis. Just 1 scene where they're on the same side.
I know its not really the same kind of thing,but if you're looking for interwiving stories there is nothing in gaming like the Remedyverse
The 2 gta iv dlc expansions that crossover with gta iv are kinda similar to the 3 half-life expansions which all tell the same story as half-life from a different perspective and also all crossover with each other
I think my biggest complaint with TBOGT is how they turned Bulgarin into a joke.
The actual first GTA game in which there are three protagonists.
those stories should inspire something in other games
All three are on sale on steam for $6 til Sep 12th.
What never made sense to me is how Johnny's outfit changed between the two games and how jim went from being white to Hispanic 💀
My favorite GTA
kino has started
the homeless man with the diamonds is seen in the credits of tbogt in a lavish house dancing with bikini clad women, hes also on the radio news that says hes going to open a liquor store and gun store in vice city
Can you do a ranking of GTA IV missions please?
Most of the missions in GTA 4 are the same, drive somewhere shoot some people or chase someone or do both lol.
To answer your question, the Resident Evil franchise is another set of games that has interweaving stories and characters at the same time. But, GTA did it much better.
also romans kidnapping happened before museum piece not afterwards like in tlad
depends on when you play it, i actually did Hostile Negotiation in my 100 percent playthru way after I did Museum Piece by putting off Photo Shoot until I had to, but actually in TLAD I *think* you have to do Roman's Holiday in order to unlock the Museum mission
@@maydaymemer4660 roman gets kidnapped when they live in bohan the mission cutscene takes place at the bohan apartment roman goes. Inside the bohan safehouse after the cutscene
@@TordaiJenoArthurJenci that's because Hostile Negotiation is the mission that unlocks the Algonquin safehouse, with X's being optional, because in that mission Roman says he's going to get them an apartment and afterwards he wins enough money gambling to get one. You dont have any other safehouse by that point of the story unless you do Boccino's missions plus Derrick's missions. I get what you mean, lore-wise it probably didnt happen later but you can do Hostile Negotiation way later into the game because the mission Photo Shoot for Playboy X unlocks the Whiz phone which unlocks the ability to get that mission
I played the missions in this weird order where I actually did the Gracie kidnapping plot before I did the Roman kidnapping mission and there was a continuity error where the game thought I did Hostile Negotiation in the post-mission phone call to Roman where Niko asks "what was being kidnapped like?" I essentially did it in this order:
- Museum Piece
- I'll Take Her
- Pegorino's Pride
- Photo Shoot
- Hostile Negotiation
- Weekend at Florian's
Because of this I managed to unlock the Alderney safehouse before any Algonquin one. It's a weird order! Kinda fits in some ways, because doing the kidnapping missions while you're still working for Ray explains why the McCreary's ask for the diamonds
@@maydaymemer4660 another rockstar fuckup like with every game 100%
GTA IV it's my second rank after GTA SA, Very grounded and feel realistic the kind of game i like. But it second rank because the exploration is worse than GTA SA which okay because it's "City" and money to spend. GTA IV is not masterpiece but close enough when you think GTA IV as GTA 3 new chapter to HD universe.
San Andreas definitely has the most varied map of all, with lots of interesting and different locations. Even though V is also supposed to be in the same area, the more rural parts of that map are nowhere as compelling, and the general design of it just puts the entire focus on Los Santos, with the rest just being mostly mountains and highway.
@@chromasus9983Los Santos, San Fierro, Las Venturas, Rural area,desert and a few scenes in Liberty City(even during the winter)
@@chromasus9983 Gta Sa just has that feeling of Adventure, The Map is pretty well designed, when even a road shortcut is memorable. GTA V is great game but show nothing great for, three protagonist is good concept but kinda safe. Then GTA online came along ruin everything rockstar become lazy GTA V dlc canceled....those dlc might redeem GTA V. I have no doubt they recycle dlc content for online pretty lazy. And now many of their franchise in coma.
If you like extensive story try fallout new vegas, 2 of original game too if you don't mind turn based combat.
Wait, Tony was actually gay? 😂 jk. Ill show mÿ self out. Ha
Another 1
Tbp!
Assume away. I have no idea who these people are. Still going to watch.
GTA IV AKA as the best GTA
4 carachters look like crap in 5
GTA v is not cannon
No they arent 😂 there is no causality between the characters. They just appear on eaxh others stories. Its brainless to think "omg look its that chacacter i recognise therefore its a great story". No. It could ve replaced with generic NPC and still have the same effect. Raise your standards
First
first
Views in seconds bro fell off
Not funny, this comment was never funny. Stop repeating unfunny comments and think about a real reply.
Ah man, remember when Rockstar made games and spin-offs instead of milking GTA Online?