Another Shimano Crank Failure & the New Design
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- Опубликовано: 2 апр 2024
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"I'm getting my shaft out of Hambini"... pure bro love !
My hole was undersized and needed a reaming M7 fit
@@Hambini Lube by Absolute Black?
In case anyone was in any doubt, it's my bottom bracket in that bike. And it's as tight as a coke can in a toilet roll holder.
Is it tighter than hairdresser ?
thats perfectly designed for slopestyle
Hairdressers aren't tight...
@@mikehall6608you don't associate with the right ones
Just changed the bearings in my hambini bb and yes, it is still as tight as my sphincter when i pressed it into the frame. The caps seem thin walled but are very resistant. not a scratch on them after two seasons of cross racing.
You may have a problem if…you keep a shimano preload tool on your keychain
😂
my thoughts aswell when I saw it 😂
Good catch!
Funny how "getting the right crankset" no longer refers to the one that actually doesn't break.
There are lots of brands out there. Especially for cranks.
@@RV-jq5pb sure, easily, but none of them would be "right" according to this video.
Glued cranks seems daft to me. Will stick with the forged items and accept the small weight penalty.
Agreed!
Yet glued carbon frames & forks are ok?
Hmm, interesting.
Glued cranks made from composite OSB are very good looking tho
Maybe get a campy groupset?
if anyone is interested, one can accelerate the debonding process by just dunking your cranks in water with electrolytes and alternating that with sessions in the oven.
...nice one la, I was going to get my tuxedo on, go to Stringfellows and have some champagne with some supermodels. But armed with this info, I'll go another day..
Is that true ... i have a 6800 crankset which I am scared to use ... and an ultegra 8000 one!
@@neil_down_south yeah
I had a Dura Ace 9000 crank crack across the line where the top of crank boot would fit. Was not obvious and needed a magnify glass to confirm. Shimano replaced all including chainrings. I warrantied mine when the recall started and took 3 months to get the replacement
As far as I know, they only ship with new chainrings. I5s a pretty quick turnaround now should only take a couple of weeks to have your replacement crank. I've only seen 4 replacement cranks in my shop
talked to our shimano rep a few weeks ago about the crank failures and what all is different on the new cranks and you're absolutely right about the waterproofing being the main thing they focused on :)
next time, tell 'im they should one-piece forge.
@@seanmccuen6970 Isn't that how the Shimano 105 cranks are constructed?
@@trevekneebone369 yep
But 105s are heavier and less rigid. It is what I ride due to budget constraints..
@@aitorbleda8267 definitely not less rigid. Id bet the thicker, heavier 105 is far stiffer.
Another "improvement" to cycling 🙌.... Can't wait to see what the marketing team thinks up next I'm almost not bankrupt yet.
Took my 8 year old 6800s to the shop without rings, and after a few weeks simply got a call what rings used to be on there - could've told them anything I wanted, if I fancied a change. Also had creaking and the exact same failure spot, but much much smaller opening. Still replaced without question after about 10 weeks.
Nice collection and presentation.
This episode inspired me of application issue regarding the crack arm seams. Particularly cranks for MTB application. When the paddle or the arm tip hit either the bumps or the protruding rocks on the trail, an impulse force may impart on the crank. a force is multiple times beyond the design value. Thanks to forgiving aluminum ductile characteristics the crack develop gradually and not snap suddenly. If not the crank the fracture will come out somewhere down stream of transmission. (Splines of free hub?)
Too bad Shimano won't allow crank length substitutions. It seems this would be a nice bone to throw us for having to deal with it.
HAMBINI BOTTOM BRACKET!!! Got the message alright... Rgr
some people missed the subtle mention.....
Add some blue thread locker to those chainring bolts as all mine backed out. One of them came out far enough to gouge my frame 🤬
I have a 2016 TCR 6800 Crank set & love the bike….been lucky so far. Great video what to keep an eye on. I check it regularly …thank you.
Shimano have known about this for years. I had my road bike 6800 crank set fail in Aug 2016, with just 15000km on them. It failed at the drive side crank arm bonding. The first hint I had was that I thought my pedal axle was bent, even though I had no fall at all on those cranks. I was looking down to see if I could actually see a bend in the pedal axle and noticed that the Crank was bending under load. Closer inspection revealed a complete bonding failure of the crank arm bonding, all the way up to the Spider, including the spider as well. I suspect the redesigned spider of the next ultegra series was a result of multiple failures. I had a few friends also subsequently have similar failures.
Did you contact Shimano, the shop you bought the bike from? What did they say?
@@dainiusvysniauskas2049Yep, I contacted Shimano Distributor in Australia and informed them, of a potential safety problem. As the part was out of warranty I did not ask for replacement but they replaced it for free anyway. They didn't say anything else or acknowledge that it was a common problem.
recently i saw a vid on debonding derailleur hangers, checked mine and found the screws were dangerously loose, after watching this im checking my crank. i have been noticing new creaking but its easy to ignore. iv found creaking from the plastic on my pedals, saddle rails, and loose chain rings. i suppose its fair to say, not all creaks are created equally.
The new cranks are simply Ultergra 8100 12sp cranks however the rings had to be specically made for the recall. The reason being the entire shimano 12sp group has a chainline that sits 2mm further outboard to clear newer wider chainstays, this means the spider on the 8100 crank sits 2mm further out. A new chainring had to be developed to compensate for this and maintain the original 11sp chainline. This is why the new chainrings are not compatible with the older cranks and vise versa as it will totally mess with chainlines. Shimano say they are going to stock just the new chainrings as a spare part for when these rings wear but am yet to see them available on their own.
These new rings have 12sp stamped on them
@@PeakTorque interesting. I've had 3 replaced and all have 11sp stamped on the rings. Maybe you've stumbled onto another Shimano fail and perhaps they've run out of the special rings 🤔
I did a deep dive when I got my first replacement crank. It slotted back on my 11sp bike without any adjustment needed to front mech. Then for shits and giggles I tried the 12sp version with 12sp rings and yeah front mech needed to be brought outboard 🤷
My FC08 replacement has the special 11 speed chainrings. I was told Shimano would stock them.
Shimano in the UK are just sending out 12sp full ultergra cranks it seems. Im fine with that. They still work with 11.
Just got my Duraace replacements under warranty!! Also 2016. I returned them with no chain rings and got a compact set back!!
Will check mine tomorrow but I've only really used that bike in the dry. Wet weather bike has 9 speed Dura-Ace.
people give me a lot of crap for cleaning my bike/components after every ride, I call it preventive maintenance, my point is that one will more likely find damage/defects when the bike is clean. I've never had a frame or crank fail on me while riding, knock wood, thanks for the vid.
Here is more crap for you: by finding failures quicker you do absolutely nothing to prevent them from happening. You gain nothing. But of course you are right: watching out for early signs of failure makes sense.
@@rosomak8244The idea of preventative maintenance is not to stop failures but to spot issues at a time early on when they can be dealt with without adverse outcomes.
In cycling this is highly desirable in order to avoid failures at unexpected times for example when descending in the Alps. I would argue you could potentially gain from this way of thinking, especially if you value your health!
@@davidgeorge9233 No. The real way to prevent catastrophic failure of "alpine dimensions" is to replace preventively parts that are known to be shabby before even seen any initial signs of failure. But the cyclists of today just can't mentally part with the sugar suit brand names for some reason.
I had two R8000 cranks replaced.
My LBS took the chainrings off to inspect and asked if I wanted them back.
The new cranks came with new chainrings and I got to keep the old ones (they were barely worn, so I sold them for £40/50 ea).
Work at a shop where we’re dealing with a lot of the crank recalls. I’ve had one instance of an FC-6800 crank NOT being part of the recall as it had a production code of VI. Wouldn’t even let me submit the form as that production code was not an option
This includes R8000 cranks too for Shimano inspection.
Suffer same separating & crack issues
I received a replacement FC-09 set for my failed DA9000 crankset. Interestgly, the fit and finish of the chainrings is near perfect, unlike the Ultegra level. Also, the Dura Ace set seems to have gone back to one piece for the NDS, versus bonded. I haven't checked the weight, but I suspect they'll be a bit heavier. Shimano should just work out carbon cranks.
Indeed a good bit heavier. I have a review of DA9200, Rotor Aldu carbon and Cybrei coming up.
How many creeking bottom brackets could actually be traced back to Shimano Cranks? Has the cycling community been duped into a bad meme for years?
The cycling community has been duped into a succession of bad memes over the better part of a century.
the cycling community is a bad meme
4-6 weeks is pretty fast, at least comparatively since my recall replacement came in after 13 weeks of waiting
Isotropic forged (Non-bonded) Aluminum cranks are the ONLY option.
What kind of bb are you using there? Looks like good quality
I have these cranks, and mine are still fine? Should i do sth or keep them(they look awesome with a rotor aero chainring:( )
Your british sports car panel gap joke is out of date. It should be cyber truck panel gap
The cybertruck gaps come when the cranks start failing
Any thoughts on carbon versus aluminium for crank construction I.e. shimano vs sram?
I’ve had sram carbon cranks since 2014 and they’ve been flawless and significantly lighter than the shimano equivalent
FYI - it is ONLY specifically listed Production Numbers - not all. It's still a small percentage of units produced that have been replaced - less than 1%. Your number OE is in the list....
Yeah, right, lmao. Keep sipping that Shitmano copium
Been watching your videos for a while, didn't realise you were local to me. Kendal based or lakes? Thanks for the info.
I noticed the plastic tab on your non drive side crank is up, it should be down for the cranks to be installed correctly. Not sure if you popped it up before the video or if you rode it like that.
I'll betcha' a trillion dollars he knows that already!
100% just wanted to point it out :)
The chainrings that have been fitted to the replacement cranks are not from the 8100 12 speed groupset that the crank arms are from. They are the 11 speed chainrings from the previous iteration which had a glossier finish. The BCD hasn't changed but as the 6800 and 8000 series crank design is no longer in production you have essentially received an 11 speed modified 8100 crankset.
The batch code on the crank arm is only relevant for the later 11 speed cranks: Ultegra 8000 and Dura Ace 9100. The very last cranks made for those groupsets ( between Sept 2019 and Cease of production around the time of 12 speed releases) were built using the new bonding method ahead of the 12sp product development. All of the older Ultegra 6800 and Dura Ace 9000 were affected.
The chainrings have 12 spd clearly stamped on them on the inside.
@@PeakTorque curious... the chainrings on the full Ultegra groupset as I have seen on display in my LBS are an exact colour match for the cranks so that makes no sense. I'm sure I read somewhere that the replacement cranks were 12 speed cranks with modified chainrings. It's been so long now that I don't remember where.
Quite a lot heavier indeed. The Irony being if you are just looking at the crank minus the rings (as am I as I'm also running my 6800 on a 1x) ... its about 40g heavier than an R7000 105 crank, which of course is non problematic, old fashioned forged construction rather than bonded. Makes one wonder why they bothered.
Is it really? Thats bad!
Yup. theres a guy who doe a blog called Handsonbike where he takes the things apart and weighs each part seperately.
It's surprising, but if you look at the weights of the various crank arms alone ... this new Ultegra crank is heavier than any of them, the new Dura Ace one second heaviest. the rest are all pretty close to r7000. The only arms that are significantly lighter are 9000 and 9100.
Of course most people only look to the total weight with rings, and thats all Shimano publishes. the bigger weight differences are in the rings not the arms.
Actually my bad. I misremembered the difference. Its actually about 22g.bit I guess the point remains the same.
For the sake of completeness, the numbers for crank only as weighed at Handsonbike follow. These are 165mm unless stated.
105 R7000, 525g
Ultegra 6800, 528g (170mm)
Ultegra R8000, 519g
Ultegra R8100, 547g
Dura Ace R9000, 482g (170mm)
Dura Ace R9100, 478g
Dura Ace R9200, 538g
The differences aren't huge, but I think it's instructive as to thevalue of bonded cranks as a weight saving measure, especially after they've been modified to hopefully not fall apart.
What happens if you have dual sided power meters ?
Good thing the crank failed in time for a new video. Your script writers are fantastic.
Wait, who are these script writers you're speaking of?
I use Campagnolo carbon cranks on everything. Shimano bikes as well. Yeah, I know I have to replace the l/h bearing often, small price, 7 quid every now and then.
When I just installed my Ultegra Di2, I noticed the plug in the spindle, and thought the same thing about waterproofing. The crank also looks significantly "cleaner" when it comes to gaps and areas where water can ingress.
good stuff. thanks for sharing
GRX crankset's design will never fail this way, you know
I have the newer design Ultegra cranks and I sure hope these additional waterproofing steps fix the issue. One advantage I have is I don't put nearly the torque on my crankset like these alien cycling monsters such as Peak Torque. 😬
that ain't the reason these bonded cranks are failing.
@@bikingchupei2447 I don't think you understand. As the structural integrity of the bonds become less and less commendable due to corrosion, they become more and more susceptible to failure by delamination and cracking due to the torque applied at the pedals by the rider. The greater torques/forces applied to the pedals by stronger riders will cause failure when the smaller forces exerted by weaker riders will not. It is true that eventually these defective cranks would fail for all riders if riden long enough in wet conditions, but failure occurs sooner for stronger riders.
@@MrLuigi-oi7gm i see.
@@bikingchupei2447 I'm glad the explanation helped. It was nice of you to respond. 👍
Hi PT. You mentioned that all prod. code c/sets being prone to failure, and that is not entirely correct. 6800 ultegra most if not all c/sets will fail at some stage, however the 8000 ultegra, 9000 d/a and 9100p ( total joke of a powermeter) have some prod codes that are excluded from the Shitmano list.
Good point. I should have mentioned all 6800. Edit: i did say all 6800. I should not have doubted myself! 😂
But why does he have a shimano crank tool on his keyring?
Nice trick with bringing in the old chainrings. I will pass that tip on to my customers, we’re still getting 1-2 crank recalls per week😅
Do you have to bring the chainrings in at all? Why not just bring the crank arms? Will shimano accept that?
Interesting that’s a new type 12speed cranks 🤔 means can be used with 10 & 11-speed chains/etc then??
I got a 105 crankset temporarily while my dura ace ones were off for recall. Interestingly, the new DA crankset weighs identical to the 105 one. They must have just scrapped the whole weight savings design.
i dont know why you would go nuts like that on a critical drive train part like a crank. Bonding aluminium together with some plastic goop seems kinda insane. It is said, if it works, it aint stupid. But it doesnt work, so it's just stupid.
if you still see seams on the DA drive side crank, it's the same stupid bonding design, it's interesting though that now they weight the same as 105 as you say.
I wonder if using non-Shimano chainrings that expose that edge to the weather are part of the problem here. Mine failed with absolute black oval gravel rings
If we buy ultegra 11v crankset now, are they still prone to failure or did they kind of fix their new stock?
I have these exact cranks and had no problems so far. I life in the the middle of Germany tho
What kind of chain lube do you use?
But it's still old design R8000, right? Not 'updated'/new R8100
Question: If the cranks cracked before and so many cracked that it required a recall, why buy that brand again?
THAT‘S why the cranks have this strange plug in the spindle! I have removed it because they did not fit on my bike stand that goes in there. Maybe that was not a good idea. Why on earth have they gone with the closed design on the road bike and not just made it see-through as on the MTB?
That outer plastic bung is a preload cap. It allows you to put enough clamping pressure on the crank system which positions the crank arms correctly on the spindle. Then the little tab is a security measure incase the clamping bolts come loose or fail preventing the crank arm from slipping off. To an extent the preload cap becomes a bit redundant once the retaining clip is pushed in to the hole, but on older cranks it acts as a dust cap.
@@matt_acton-varian He was writing about the drive side.
@@matt_acton-varian He's not talking about the preload cap. The new spindles have a plug.
Is that a Flota X2 ? If it's 21-23, check it out as Fox has recall on these
If it is a 21-23 it'll fail on him soon enough lol
any problems on the shimano Mtb range? is Xt hollow or forged like Deore ( Slx not sure )
Hollowtech has been around for ages on MTB, over 20 years, and I haven’t heard of anything like this. Must be something different in the design or construction.
Hollowtech… reminds me of those old Taiwanese toys pressed out of whatever old tin can they could find and held together with tabs. 😂
Huh, if the spider is susceptible to uneven loading, wouldn't that be cured by stiffer chainrings. Just a thought but I don't think anyone has looked at chainring flexibility as a component of crankset stiffness and power transfer.
They're telling people to check batch codes in order to give the impression the scope of the failures is narrower than it really is. I think it's virtually all 11 speed cranks from Shimano.
Hey, im plan on buying an Shimano Altus FC-MT210-3.
I plan to upgrade tge bottom bracket on an older mtb because it has a few cm of play haha when you rattle it and looking at the position of the pedals.
Are there any problems with this crankset?
Altus is fine.and up to 105 also fine.
@@aitorbleda8267 thanks i tought so, thinking back at it. The hollowtech technology is not listed on their pages so i guess they cast as a whole? And the hollowtech ones are for those who want to save weight, for racing and such?
Safety tab/pin/whatever on the non-drive side crank arm…?! 😮
I've never had a problem with the various Campy cranks I run on my bikes: Centaur Ultra Torque, and Super Record Ultra Torque on two different bikes.
It’s very interesting that this type of failure is happening with the higher and Shimano cranks. Because I have a lower inch mono crank it’s a Shimano Acera Square taper and I’m not having this problem at all. It is well-made so I’m very surprised.
You aren't having this problem because it's Made in a completely different way.
@@thomasstone1363 how so? Could you explain that to me because I have been dying to know how Shimano makes their cranks and how they make all their parts.
@@MarshWaha They're not hollow. Lower end cranksets are usually just a single piece of forged aluminium with riveted steel chainrings. This makes them heavy, but extremely durable and cheap to produce.
@@iddra1868 or they have removable chain rings in my case mine did mines an FC - M361 Acera.
8:40 the almost press-fit of the older outer chainring on the spider was meant to provide lateral stiffness under sprinting loads from the crank to the chainring (We only have Shimano's word for it whether this did or not ). It seems like they're rushing this warranty patch through. If water was getting in there and wicking down bonding micro-gaps, corroding the alu/epoxy bond fascia, separating the glue joint further, then that's a particularly stupid design. I bought Stronglight chainrings for my last replacement on the road bike (9100), which don't have the sculpted chainring stud arms, just plastic caps to end the spider arm with (with equally approximate gaps between the two, but hey, the only person who looks is you, right? & if you wax your d/t, you don't have to spend much time cleaning at all with it at eye level, do you?)
I replaced a dura ace 9000 crankset with a campagnolo centaur (using ultra torque) and even though the centaur is the lower tier campagnolo groupset and dura ace the top of the line shimano the campagnolo crankset feels better. The bearings seem smoother and the cranks seem to be stiffer. Although that may just be my own bias, the important part is the campagnolo aluminium cranks are not hollow and not bonded. So the particular failure mode of these shimano cranksets are avoided. I took the shimano crankset to a bikeshop and they found no issues, neither did I, but I believe it is just a matter of time before it starts cracking. I honestly don't trust shimano cranks anymore, the way they make them seems not up to expected standards of quality.
I have some 6800s, prob should take off the chain rings and check them..
Is it a Hambini BB?
I don't know. He didn't say.
I'll have to watch it a few more times to suss that out.
I weighed a 5800 right arm without rings and compared to my failed 6800 and the difference was 13grams. So for 13 grams and a bit of supposed stiffness we're dealing with this crap.
How would one speed up this de-bonding process? Asking for a friend..
lol, storing your bike in a steam room
Oooooo, don't use your palm to hit a spanner...
You're welcome!
Four to six weeks? Ouch.
Does my tiagra 4700 have this hollow tech design/problem?
There haven't been any Tiagra FC-4700 failures as far as I'm aware.
No 4700 doesn't have the Hollowtech design in the arms (not forged). Think they're solid actually.
@@Laurencebalcombe That's good news... Thanks
Gotta work on that pull out game mate!
Deep down we always knew Dura Ace was a rational choice
Buy some decent MTB cranks and you'll have no issues. Years of mountain biking many of it Enduro and despite many big rock strikes, unplanned dismounts etc nothing apart from cosmetic damage, bottom brackets just as you would expect they do wear out.
chain rings from mtb cranks are just to small for road bikes and it is just a shimano problem. even the carbon sram once are built proof ...
8:39 Lamination process. Step 12. wipe surplus glue. RMA Supply stash:Skip this step. 😂😂😂
Too much Peak Torque on that crank… not Shimano’s fault. lol
Mr Torque, can you do a video to tech us the punter about the benefit of the great "Hallowtech"? what make it great compare to CNC or forging ?
The great thing about is the fact how cheap the construction actually is. It's great for profit margins!
@@rosomak8244 educate me
@@rosomak8244Is it actually cheaper though? They save on material costs by using less metal, but they have to forge two parts instead of one, in addition to having to bond the pieces together. As for the OP’s question, the benefits (at least on paper) are lighter weight and rigidity, because the arms are hollow and can be made with a larger cross section without a weight penalty.
@@trekkeruss In relations to techniques that would properly bond the two aluminium shells it is definitively cheaper. Yes the bonding could be done properly by welding or even soldering the parts together.
@@rosomak8244 But your statement is that it is cheaper to manufacture. Yeah, perhaps they saved money by bonding the two parts, but I contend it is not necessarily cheaper than their previous generations of cranks. I also think there is nothing inherently wrong with bonding; they just didn’t do it correctly.
Whats that clicking noise???
I'm sorry I could not resist: ruclips.net/video/AhzLM_zR8Jo/видео.html
10:50 At least R7000, R8000, R9100 cranks already had this sealing (which was black though).
Just to clarify R7000 105 (nor 7100) is not a 2 piece clam shell boned design. It is single piece forged crank arm.
Ethirteen cranks on Shimano axles? An e-Bike Shimano motors maybe but one non e-Bike mtbs? The ethirteen have their own 30mm axle.
Shimano board meeting; 'Maybe we should investigate carbon cranks?´
'No, let's just add more material to Ultegra and DA and make them even heavier´.
Ultegra crank without rings is only 15g lighter than forged 105. wtf
@@PeakTorque They've lost the plot somewhat. Gone down a rabbit hole of hollow forging that they can't get out of. A shame the Sworks cranks have disappeared, they were pretty good. Hirsch joint.
The axle in my Campy crank is titanium. Will not rust. Campy rules!!!!
Do 105 cranks fail too? I doubt it...
No, they are not hollowtech.
@@matthewblue7839 They are hollowtech, they don't fail because they are forged instead of being bonded
My lbs have a 80+% failure on 6800 cranks
These cranks didn't even make it 10 years. Shimano should be embarrassed, whoever designed these back in the day made a total oversight.
I went 105
4-6 weeks??? WTF?
They've gone belt n braces on us. BUT think about the extra weight
not watching the video. just here to say: i am riding dura ace square taper cranks and they don't fail me. huge part of why cycling can be great, is simplicity. it is sad to see in which way modern technology is used in the bike industry.
Just wait until they decide 5 arms are better at power transfer than the current offset 4 arm cranks 😂
I'm so pleased I gave up giving a shit about "new technological improvements" and just ride.
Gone back to square taper BB and fewer sprockets on my cassette and never think twice about it
Bonded aluminum cranks are crap. Change my mind.
Do you have a Shimano crank tool as your keychain?
If so is it because you have to change cranks often?
I have shimano stuff on all my bikes, road, gravel and mtb and also my partners bike so it comes in very handy indeed. 3d printed it
@@PeakTorque
'Partner' .... Are you an iron ?
The Boeing of cycling
If it is 2 x U shape glued together to make a HollowTech, then I think it will fail again. Sooner or later, just a matter of time. In case I have to have a Shimano crank, Tiagra is the highest level for me.
105, as well as 12 speed Ultegra and Dura Ace cranks are not glued
Waiting for the excuse from Shimano regarding your old crankset: You´re not allowed to use it as a 1x setup.... Rgr
4:58 lol