Long Term Finasteride use SAVES your hair: Data Deep Dive
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- Опубликовано: 27 авг 2024
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References:
1. Ellis, J. A., Sinclair, R., & Harrap, S. (2002). Androgenetic alopecia: pathogenesis and potential for therapy. Expert Reviews in Molecular Medicine, 4(22), 1-11. doi.org/10.101...
2. Epstein, J. H., Bared, A., & Kuka, G. (2014). Ethnic considerations in hair restoration surgery. Facial Plastic Surgery Clinics of North America, 22(3), 427-437. doi.org/10.101...
3. Krueger, L., Aguh, C., Peterson, E., Thomas, J., James, J. F., Lo Sicco, K., & Shapiro, J. (2022). Curl pattern classification: A potential tool for communication and risk stratification. International Journal of Women’s Dermatology, 8(2), e015. doi.org/10.109...
4. Lee, W. S., & Lee, H. J. (2012). Characteristics of androgenetic alopecia in Asian. Annals of Dermatology, 24(3), 243. doi.org/10.502...
5. Leerunyakul, K., & Suchonwanit, P. (2020). Asian Hair: A Review of Structures, Properties, and Distinctive Disorders Clinical, Cosmetic and Investigational Dermatology, Volume 13, 309-318. doi.org/10.214...
6. Loussouarn, G., Lozano, I., Panhard, S., Collaudin, C., Rawadi, C. E., & Genain, G. (2016). Diversity in human hair growth, diameter, colour and shape. An in vivo study on young adults from 24 different ethnic groups observed in the five continents. European Journal of Dermatology, 26(2), 144-154. doi.org/10.168...
7. Reyes, A. (2021). Curly Hair FUE: My approach using classification of follicle curvature and curl. Hair Transplant Forum International, 31(6), 205-214. doi.org/10.335...
8. Rossi, A., Cantisani, C., Scarnò, M., Trucchia, A., Fortuna, M. C., & Calvieri, S. (2011). Finasteride, 1 mg daily administration on male androgenetic alopecia in different age groups: 10-year follow-up. Dermatologic Therapy, 24(4), 455-461. doi.org/10.111...
9. Salman, K. E., Altunay, İ. K., Küçükünal, N. A., & Çerman, A. A. (2017). Frequency, severity and related factors of androgenetic alopecia in dermatology outpatient clinic: hospital-based cross-sectional study in Turkey. Anais Brasileiros De Dermatologia, 92(1), 35-40. doi.org/10.159...
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#androgenicalopecia #malepatternbaldness #hairloss
That has been super helpful! Good to know Finasteride works long term and actually improves even after the first year.
Does this video override your previous video “ Finasteride & Synchronized Shedding: Finasteride takes 3-5 Years to REALLY Work”?
Should we still wait 3-4 years like you mentioned in your old video on synchronized shedding?
Not at all. It would go hand in hand if anything. It shows that the longer you take treatment, the more likely it is to reverse AGA.
3-4 years because the hair cycles gradually become longer.
I used finasteride for 6 and a half months, then I switched to dutasteride for 14 and a half months.
Besides that, oral minoxidil 2.5 mg, 5 and a half months ago
However, my hair still weak and the loss did not stop
Whenever you switch or add something new you'll cause more shedding (or at least the potential for shedding goes up).
Dutasteride on its own can cause a massive shed due to how much you reduce the scalp DHT by. Like wise with oral minoxidil, you can see large sheds.
Hang in there
@@Kyle_Bu
Thanks for you answer 🙏
How long should I wait to know if my hair is improving or not?
@@Kyle_BuBut he's been on them for a long time; shredding shouldn't be a factor by that point anymore.
I have been using finasteride for the past 90 days. My hairline is very thin now and I can see my scalp, it got way worse
Not everyone stops shedding at 6 months. Especially on dutasteride given how long it takes to start working to effectively lower scalp dht.
Signs of hair growth are done with microphotography where the hair follicles bud out of the scalp slightly sometimes, showing signs of growth. So he just needs to stay on treatment and wait especially this early in the process.
Also, have you seen the NAC study?
Link?
Hi , i am 21 years old
, I have been using finasteride for the past 90 days and I noticed that my hairline got very worse, I can see my scalp very easily now, should I continue using finasteride alone for the first year or should I add dutasteride now?
(i don't use minoxidil)
Thanks
People mess up a lot at this point in their hair loss journey. Continue to take treatment. You're supposed to shed when you're starting treatment. Wait 1-2 years for sufficient shedding cycles to pass.
@@Kyle_Bu I will and thanks ❤️
What are your thoughts on using finasteride everyday and using dutasteride 1-2 times per week? Does it cause a significant increase in scalp DHT suppression?
Good. Watch the other videos , my hair stacks lecture part 1.
You should do a video on how to take fin or dut for those with side effects
Already did bro 💯
We see that hair count increases with treatment but does it say in what region of the scalp? Example, do they still lose hair on the hairline and temples but gain some on the crown or hair loss stops completely and they see regain in some places?
Good question/point
You'll have to read the studies. Typically researchers measure at different regions and make an average of the hair count change.
I dont read studies but I assume there are very negligible hairline gains due to finasteride not inhibiting 5ar1 which is right next ti the hairline
@@Kyle_Bu I’ll do that thx!
i'm regrowing my juvenile hairline back only 4 months on fin@@maalikserebryakov
im struggling to interpret the heat maps. for each year, is it being compared to the baseline or a previous year? for example in the first graph, if it's in the 5's does this mean it's improving year on year, or just as compared to the baseline?
its the transition between the years
hey man, thank you for your videos!
wanted to ask a question: how long does scalp dht stay suppressed after stopping finasteride?
Well the serum goes back to normal after 7 days or so. For the scalp it could be 1 month and shedding (losing ground) 2-3 months after.
If i load dut quicker am i at a higher risk of side effects compared to taking 0.5 daily for 3 months. Or does taking 2.5mg for 10 days speed up the process but because i change to 0.5mg it doesn’t increase risk of sides?
I hope Dutas also has that long efficacy.
Should be longer.
Great stuff as always! I was wondering, how long does it take to get a small miniaturized hair to a thick long strand of hair? if in any case that's possible
Everyone is different. It could be proportional to the amount of time it took you to notice your hair started thinning+ time it took to get on medication. Sometimes those hairs can't recover fully but only maintain
@@Kyle_Bu thx for the clarification :)
@@Kyle_Buthis seems to be the case with my left temple. It receded long before my hair started thinning and now it’s grow back a bit but it’s wispy
@@wasteman3259 blast the nuclear stack
2.5mg Dut a day + 1ml 5% cyclosporine + Monthly PRP
(Diet, exercise, sleep are non negotiable ofc)
For a few months(6?). This will salvage all the hairs that can be salvaged.
Then you can switch back to your standard stack.
You've discussed in the past that the T/AR complex activates different genes than the DHT/AR complex and might therefore have different effects on the hair follicle. Do you believe that testosterone has a net anabolic effect on hair growth? Consider the following hypothetical:
Let's assume that there are no adverse effects from dutasteride nor RU-58841 (or your AR blocker of choice).
Let's also assume that use of dutasteride (oral+topical) results in 100 % scalp DHT suppresion. The same assumption is made for RU-58841 (100 % testosterone blocked).
Now raise the person's testosterone to 3000 ng/mL. Which treatment is likely to lead to a greater outcome for stabilization and/or hair regrowth?
1) Dutasteride treatment with 100 % scalp + blood DHT suppresion.
2) Dutasteride and RU-58841 with 100 % scalp DHT scalp and 100 % testosterone blocked from binding to the AR.
The reason I ask is that low T sometimes brings about hair loss (although may be difficult to tease out the effects of low estrogen) and senescent alopecia could be worsened by low T. Evidently, T has at least some positive benefits to hair. Would these benefits scale with above-physiological T concentrations (assuming 100 % scalp + blood DHT is blocked)? Curious to hear your thoughts.
Those are some pretty charitable assumptions.
Senescent alopecia, to my understanding, is largely independent of androgens. This type of hair loss is more about the genetic aging of the hair follicle, which, like many organs, undergoes wear and tear over time. It's a process not directly linked to androgen levels.
Regarding androgens, it's true that they have varying impacts on different types of body hair. Generally, androgens, including DHT, play a stimulatory role in the growth of body and facial hair. For instance, DHT is crucial in the development of hair follicles in the beard area.
However, scalp hair behaves distinctly compared to other body hair. The scalp maintains genes that predispose individuals to androgenetic alopecia (AGA), making its interaction with androgens more complex. In AGA, DHT is known to shorten the hair growth cycle, leading to hair thinning and loss.
In the case of Dutasteride treatment with 100% scalp and blood DHT suppression, you're effectively removing the primary androgen believed to be responsible for AGA. This could theoretically stabilize hair loss and possibly encourage regrowth, particularly in those predisposed to AGA.
Adding RU-58841 to block testosterone from binding to the androgen receptor, in addition to Dutasteride, doesn’t necessarily provide a significant advantage in the context of scalp hair. This is because, in AGA, it's primarily DHT, rather than testosterone, that exacerbates hair loss. Testosterone itself, at physiological levels, isn't as potent as DHT in triggering AGA symptoms.
@@Kyle_Bu Thanks for your reply. Found your content recently and enjoying it! I know your content is geared toward normal physiology but I'm still curious to hear your thoughts on the above-physiological side of things. In one of your previous videos (the one where you did the math on disassociation constants), you said that the only way testosterone could be as potent as DHT for hair miniaturization is if you crammed ten testosterone molecules into the AR. Obviously, this would never happen but that math relies on the disassociation constant holding steady as T and AR concentrations vary. Usually this is not the case in biological systems.
If you flood the AR with higher concentration of T, you get a sort of paracrine effect on the hair follicle where mass action pushes T into the receptor (or prevents an existing complex from disassociating). This paper isn't about DPCs but I don't see why the same phenomenon wouldn't hold for any other organ with ARs:
Testosterone at High Concentrations Interacts with the Human Androgen Receptor Similarly to Dihydrotestosterone
Endocrinology, Volume 126, Issue 2, 1 February 1990, Pages 1165-1172
"Our results suggest that the weaker androgenic potency of testosterone compared to that of dihydrotestosterone resides in its weaker interaction with the androgen receptor, most clearly demonstrable as an increase in the dissociation rate of testosterone from the receptor. When present in relatively high concentrations, however, testosterone overcomes this defect by mass action. In this manner, testosterone in high concentrations and acting as a paracrine factor rather than a circulating hormone ..."
Going back to the example where 100 % scalp and blood DHT have been eliminated, do you still expect progression of hair loss to occur at above physiological levels of T? In other words, do you think there is ever going to be T concentration high enough in the scalp to reproduce DHT's effect on the hair follicle?
@@OrganicStrychnine I made that statement under the assumption that people aren't using anabolic steroids or artificially boosting their testosterone to supraphysiological levels, and not as a result of using Dutasteride (DUT) or Finasteride (Fin), which many people have expressed concerns about.
I took a look at the paper you quote and its pretty interesting. After reviewing the paper you sent, it's evident that the methodology describes an in vitro study, not an in vivo one. Increasing testosterone to supraphysiological levels could create a larger substrate for any remaining 5α-reductase (5AR) to convert testosterone (T) to dihydrotestosterone (DHT).
Additionally, at such high levels, testosterone might outcompete DUT and Fin in the serum simply due to its sheer volume. Consequently, more interactions between 5AR and testosterone might occur, as opposed to interactions between 5AR and DUT or Fin.
However, a critical point to consider is that no drug operates with 100% efficacy. Dutasteride's effects cap at around 2.5 mg, and Finasteride's, for the most part, at 1 mg, in terms of their impact on DHT in tissues, organs, and serum
AGA's etiology is complex and involves factors beyond just the interaction of androgens with AR, such as genetics, local and systemic hormonal levels, and hair follicle biology.
If the treatment is started after 3 narrow , then man will most likely not get hair growth, and is the best effectiveness of the medication after 5 years?
Does this statistic include Dutasteride?
The longer you've gone without treatment the harder it is to reverse miniaturization
I start using fin for over 4 months I’m not a Norwood just slightly a receding hairline and noticed my hairs were thinning and falling I start using fin now the loss is extreme why this happening 😢 daily 100-200 hairs are comin on my hand or more 😢😢😢
It’s shedding phase it’s fine it’ll grow back stronger
Yes it's a shed. Can you please look up "shedding on Finasteride?"
@@Kyle_Bu but mostly 50%or 40% of my hairs fallen also when I touch ma hair it came like simply 🥹🥹 and how long it will continue like this any idea
Hey can i take 5mg dut for two weeks in order to speed up the loading phase?
Hey, is there any way to speed up the loading phase of dut by taking 2.5mg for 3 weeks for it to build up quicker in your system and then taking 0.5mg without having the increased risk of side effects at 2.5mg dut ?
I mean that's the biggest loading phase one could reasonable do. Please talk to your doctor first. im a research channel.
When I took fin for 3 weeks I noticed an increase in my oily skin, what could be the cause?
Maybe it's your diet
Thank you for another great video. I’ll give it a green star 😊!
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What Norwood class is this considered at 3:15 ?
BaSP classification M2F3
bro i switched to dut would it still save my hair... feel like i switched too early @ 8 months in fin
btw i still didnt get unbanned off the server :(
You never told me your name. And this is pretty basic stuff my guy, just take your medicine and be patient.
@@Kyle_Bu name: s0oty
Green star
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Any hair growth stimulants besides minoxidil that are actually worth using?
Yup. Check my article here
kwxk.substack.com/p/some-hair-loss-stacks
Latanoprost, Bimatoprost, and Travoprost are prostaglandin analogues that work to prolong the anagen phase.
Talk to your doctor
@@Kyle_Bu what you think of Cyclosporin A (topical ofc)
Is this a computerized voice or does this guy just have a very weird speech pattern?
This is my actual voice. If there are cuts it's due to removing dead air.
I also have dystonia due to injury.
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Green star
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Green star
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