This seems like a fantastic piece of hardware. Glad they were able to bring the price down for the Super Nt. Still not exactly cheap, but definitely reasonable for a system of that caliber. Thanks for showing this off!
I use a Super Nintendo on a CRT with S-cable. It looks fantastic. This appears to be the best way to experience a SNES game in 1080p, but these games were not designed for 1080p. The visual quality on a good CRT is the best way to experience SNES games.
I can never get my electrons to behave correctly. Curse this imperfect physical universe! The only thing in our imperfect universe that can get those unpredictable electrons to fall in line is the FPGA, which programs itself to -emulate- mimic the actual electrical pathways in a Super Nintendo.
I mean if these guys can't see the difference in higher res textures, better shadows, higher resolution, (sometimes) higher framerates, etc., then how could they ever hope to spot emulated vs. non-emulated SNES? Even this emulation console itself has them fooled.
+brando92711 how do you classify FPGAs? It is not the real, original SNES hardware either. It is not even clone hardware. All the FPGA is doing is pretending to be parts of the SNES hardware like the CPU. This will be imperfect in its own ways - some very exotic hardware might not work with this because of some obscure undocumented feature. Then we have parts that are different by design and intention - the colors of this System are not "true NTSC" colors presented on a CRT in a Japanese official cubical of the era.
Totally agree with Math Helper, i don't know why people mock him so much for that, maybe they didn't understand what he was trying to say? He is saying that software can't emulate perfectly a physical electronic array. And if its more and more complex then its more and more difficult to emulate and the mistakes are more noticeable. People that disagree with that are simply wrong, thats just a scientific truth.
SNES software emulation has been cycle accurate for quite a while now. Basically, with emulators such as Bsnes or Higan you'll get exactly the same result as on a real SNES. Not that FPGA SNES machine isn't impressive, just wanted to correct your outdated info. And I understand that some people prefer hardware and real cartridges and all that. But it's one thing to prefer something, another thing is to say everything else is somehow worse, because it's not true. Objectively, at this point software emulation of SNES is just as good as any hardware FPGA emulation.
In terms of accuracy, sure, but in terms of playability hell no. The input lag on software emulators ruins the experience. With FPGA there is no inherent input lag, just whatever lag your TV has. There are TVs out there with under 1 frame of lag these days, so with the Super NT and the right TV you can much closer to CRT level low input lag
GNJK Nah, it actually plays more or less the same and looks better, if you dispose of all the metaphysics and religious feelings towards the real hardware.
The thing is, many games were played using tricks. Perfect emulations is a way to play those games without using tricks. For example Pinball Deluxe for GB is a perfect example of this, only some time ago we were able to play it without using tricks. For example PCSX2 is an example of emulator that uses many tricks to get the games running, they run but isn't perfect emulation. You need to know the difference of playable of perfect emulation.
Axel Janes You clearly don't know what "perfect" means. Yes, when it comes to NES, SNES and Genesis games, they have been playable on emulators for the most part even in the late 90s, but perfect? Hell no, not even the virtual console is perfectly accurate. ZSNES and Kgen are just emulators that were considered "good enough" for the time but now they're extremely outdated and very far from "perfectly accurate".
Axel Janes What the hell is your deal? Calling some people who like accuracy in emulation virgins and sadists, what the hell have they done to you? Have they broken into your house and stole your belongings or something? Also no, ZSNES is not perfect, ZSNES is garbage by today's standards anyone can notice the difference from just trying it for a few seconds. Just so you know, there also exist versions of Bsnes that target performance, and there is also Snes9X. You seem to not know what you're talking about and you can't carry on a discussion without calling names.
Axel James You're the one who should lighten up here, since you seem to throw tantrums over people simply using bsnes. Also no, that's not the biggest flaw of ZSNES. The biggest flaw of ZSNES is that games are buggy and some even just plain crash, sound is terribly emulated and some games don't even have sound due to that. ZSNES is outdated trash, it hasn't been updated for years. Higan and SNES9X are the only great choices for SNES emulation as of now, you have to either be an idiot or really misinformed if you still stick to using ZSNES and actually believe it's perfect emulation.
At least Mike doesn't pretend to know what he's talking about. If Ryan wants to b.s. while high sure whatever, but at least put a disclaimer that he doesn't actually know much about the topic.
"B...b...but the electrons move differently". This has got to be the biggest snake-oil bullshit I've ever heard. An SNES is a computer, it has transistors, that are either 1 or 0. It's digital. If you simulate the entire machine state of an SNES you can replicate a 1:1 SNES in software, no matter how electrons flow. Don't even get me started about audio. Of course Emulators don't play mp3 files, they play the original SMC sound files and simulate the SNES soundchip.
Just to make things clear: FPGAs ARE emulation. If the code used on the fpga emulates the console accurately, a software emulator using the same code will do the same thing the same way, just a bit slower
Sionyn Jones considering that games were developed using computers, not the consoles, maybe except old stuff like atari 2600 which had cartridges where you could write down some programs to run
+Laith Iris FPGA-based retro consoles are essentially hardware emulators, as opposed to software emulators that are common on most platforms. They don't implement the "same code" but rather the same operations used by the system that's being emulated. An FPGA uses VHDL programmed gate-arrays (literally physical hardware logic), while software emulators are sets of programs that run on top of some other existing platform (e.g ARM, x86 etc'). Unlike software, an efficient enough implementation in direct hardware can potentially give way better performance for some systems, where software can end up becoming limited to some degree. So yes, while both do the same thing, they're technically quite different.
+Laith Iris Like with any emulator, it all depends on the implementation. In the specific case of the Super NT that might be true, but in theory, an FPGA emulator that's truly done right can potentially be way more accurate than even a good software emulator like Higan.
+ Laith Iris "more accurate" comes down to the amount of polish spend in the implementation. Both emulators and FPGAs run into trouble, when games are using undocumented features of the chip set. An FPGA has deterministic timing on its side - but the only reason a computer can not do that is the operating system.
I don't know anything about this, but I'm getting that feeling that these guys don't either lol. It's like they smoked a bunch of pot and decided to turn on the camera and just wing it. It's funny to me, it gives me "Jay and Silent Bob-esk" feeling of comedy.
Snes emulation has gotten perfect accuracy and the input lag from emulation has even seen a wide reduction to zero like in Dolphin or reduction to at most one frame of lag in retroarch for cores. The best way to reduce or eliminate input lag for snes or other systems is to use a linux distro in kms mode using retroarch that is properly setup or use retroarch with a non crap tv or a crt display.
I know I’m replying to a 3 year old comment, but you’re right. On top of that, turning on run-ahead in Retroarch now has emulation to the point that it literally has less lag than an actual console. Combine that with the higan core for SNES and it provides perfect emulation. I still prefer my Analogue Super NT along with my FX Pak Pro though. The hardware is just fun to use.
"I tried an emulator once, 10 years ago, but it wasn't 100% perfect so I stuck with cartridges" Well hello from 2018, where we have Higan that is basically a perfect copy of a SNES, or Dolphin that are capable that rendering (not upscalling) Wii games on 1080p, something even the real console can't.
Ok guys, its "hardware" and shit, but it doesnt stand when TASBot actually works on the real hardware. That means, the emulator was EXACTLY THE SAME as the actual hardware. Electrons moving in reality dont change the result because its digital, the "FPGA is just a gimmick. The FPGA doesnt become a SNES, FPGAs cant emulate analog hardware, you cant emulate an opamp on a FPGA, or a delay line. Sorry to break your "hardware" fantasy but a FPGA is only better than an emulator performance wise. I agree with you that having the cartridge and the console and all that is an experience, its like going to a concert vs listening to your mp3 player, but i assure you that FPGA is just an emulator, it emulates the original because FPGAs cant do analog stuff, it cant copy the flaws in the originals which were caused by faults in the photolitography process or bugs in the chip design.
@anaesthetics well, that's audiophile territory, but they arent called audiophiles for no reason, and studies have shown they cant actually differentiate between loseless and an mp3@256kbps Regarding emulation my poiint is that, that its still just an emulator, its not "hardware" magic like he portraits it. Having the real hardware is akind to considering yourself an audiophile, it's not suddenly better just because it looks like so to you, that's why i say the FPGA is just a gimmick designed to cather to the "hardware"-philes.
Software could be more *accurate* than any piece of hardware. Hardware has "tolerances". I.e. no SNES runs at exactly the spec'd frequency. As the hardware ages that's going to get worse. An FPGA is still a simulation.. if you're going to get butt hurt over the *realness* of emulators then an FPGA is just as bad.
Have you played something like Super Punch Out with FPGA vs emulation to feel the difference? Timing feels off in many emulations, especially GMA ones.
Offtopic kinda: As a UK SNES owner from the year of release ('92, right?) the "Famicom" design for the European SNES just gives a warm feeling in my soul. But, I always thought the US SNES design and colouring was pretty cool. Did anyone else have similar feelings?
I think emulation is fine. The minuscule reasons to spend hundreds of dollars (or thousands) more to have "the authentic experience" isn't worth it. Saying emulation doesn't get the absolutely perfect 100% original audio is like saying you don't go to concerts because songs being played arnt 100% EXACTLY like the album.
It's more like going to see a cover band imo. I'm generally fine with SNES emulated sound, but the Genesis/MegaDrive music is where I got to have the real thing.
They are rich as heck thought, so paying $150, even $400 for smallest smallest amount of difference is worth it to THEM, and then they tell everyone to just "pick it up", like its a pack of cigs, not a big deal.
Stringbats yeah but they are being a little pretentious and condescending as well especially Ryan. Talking as if emulation just doesn't come near. Talking about electrons lol. And saying the SNES is putting on a live performance of the audio lmao. He acts like there's a tiny Yes concert going on in the SNES with light shows and spinning drummers and fog
after I bought the NT mini, I never use the NESa emulator (and others 8-bit emulatora like GB etc) again, now with the super NT, I probably will not use the SNES emulator any more. Software emulators does not comapre to FPGAs
phonzeh but u are aware that the Genesis 1, 2 and 3 all have different sound chips and sound different from one another right? so what is the real thing in your opinion?
to be honest, these two guys are not appealing at all to me and they explain these technical specs so bad.. and not even correctly since it *is* emulation nonetheless
Axel Stone but it isn't emulation. Emulators translate the code whereas FPGA based systems run it natively by basically reconfiguring an array of transistors into the same configuration as the original hardware.
brando92711 As far as I know FPGA is hardware-emulation and for instance the system on a chip stuff is software emulation (running with some linux frontend) I could be wrong ofcourse
Axel Stone not to beat a dead horse but I'd say it's more imitation in the sense of being a true clone of the processor than a system that runs code emulating software
It may give you a better experience than a software emulator, but this is honestly the definition of emulation. Wikipedia: "In computing, an emulator is hardware or software that enables one computer system (called the host) to behave like another computer system (called the guest). " I agree with Axel on this. If you want the real deal buy the original hardware. The FPGA in these systems could ACTUALLY just be ripping a ROM from the cartridge and running an emulator, who can accurately say otherwise unless you reverse engineer the mini nt/super nt?
How is playing SNES games at 1080p on hardware not made by Nintendo more accurate to "the way it was intended to be played"? Fuck off with the Framemeister and everything else; original Nintendo hardware is the "authentic" experience, and everything else is no better than software emulation.
Love you guys. But come on. Look at this video compared to My Life In Gaming's about this system. Night and day. What I imagine they do is smoke a lot of weed, sit down and turn the camera on, have nothing pre-planned, nothing written out or scripted, and just wing it with completely wrong information, and then just think Ah we're Cinemassacre so tons of people are going to view this anyway
Mike, many of us don´t have access to some garage sale, or retro stores. Most of the world is not that full of old console cartridges to get. It´s a pain in the ass, extra expensive to import or impossible. So yeah...it´s not always an option.
but they go on how bad emulators are. How dare you person in 2nd and 3rd world countries use an emulator - Mike Matei. Sorry they don't have it as perfect as you, Mike.
Shaka12 Mike is speaking for himself, you don't have to take what he says personally...keep using your ROMs and emulator or buy an Everdrive and play ROMs on a real SNES.
the argument vs emulation is just wrong, cinemassacre as a whole has the one flaw of being extremely adamant vs emulation with absurd statements. Some emulators are better than others at handling various things, there's pretty much no excuse to bash emulation nowadays besides having some console under your TV or using specific accessories, like wanting to use the NES light gun for duck hunt. I know you guys "really" appreciate your consoles, i do too, but the bashing vs emulation is totally uncalled for.
I see this in a lot of collectors and I think it's mostly to prop up their ego's and justify the insane amounts of money they have blown on collections of games and hardware/setups. I think they feel as though their investments and self worth are threatened by the ability to just download and play the games they have spent so much money on lol. I'm totally fine with however somebody want's to play their games but before I'll personally take someone's criticism on how I play my games I expect them to at least have some knowledge to backup their arguments. This felt more like an Infomercial to me than someone who has actual knowledge about the subject.
I love retro nostalgia but there is something in me that digsusts me about these new consoles. I dunno. Maybe I was abused by a game gear or something.
Should have put a disclaimer at the beginning of the video saying "Ryan literally knows NOTHING about emulation at all". I hope no one watches this and "learns" what Ryan said and go around repeating it when arguing.
Emulation is referenced as "emulated through software" which is not the case with this console, hence why he mention that it's not emulation. Yes, if you read the definition of emulation it also include hardware but that's not the popular definition of the word emulation.
@@Warrax22 When I was a kid, they argued about the dangers of children emulating the moves in Mortal Kombat. My point is that the true definition of emulation is not specific to any one thing, and you're all fools.
I bought one of these, but to play devil's advocate, one could use their classic systems, but an OSSC (line doubler) for way less than a Framemeister, and the good thing about going this route is that it will benefit all of your classic consoles, instead of JUST the SNES.
OSSC doesn't offer 5x 6x scaling and you are still converting analog to digitial where as the Super NT is purely digital. So less noise and most likely cleaner audio.
I remember it had a lot of issues with different TV setups for some reason. If you google it you'll find out about it immediately. It looks like they did attempt to fix it, but still not fully compatible with all TV's for some reason.
I'll never understand the point of hardware cloning, when we're in an age of Nestopia and BSNES offering 100% cycle accurate emulation. If you want the nostalgic experience, you'll want the original hardware.
No emulator offert 100% perfect timing, cycle accuracy only apply on emulated CPU part, video, sound and IO synchronisation and timing are faked by software.
Nestopia is only about 80% accurate at the best. You'll want puNES or Mesen for 100% accuracy on the NES. You're correct about BSNES/Higan being accurate, though. After all, byuu helped with the Super NT's design.
Global Medicinal Marijuana once again, emulator can only pretend cycle accuracy on code execution, they can’t do anything about input and output lag induced by the operating systems overhead, nor they can accurately replicate precise signal timing and often shows as sound, dma or video glitches. Fun facts: FPGA are use for prototyping chips. Argonauts who has created the Super FX chips for Nintendo back then have used an FPGA for prototype and test hardware design.
I think Mike wants to play real cartridges because he can spend money. If you put Contra 3 on an SD card in the system and hide it from sight, you would not be able to tell cartridge from rom.
Perhaps not. Never said I could always tell the difference. I can sometimes though, like if it's bad emulation. Like for example I could tell if it was the Retron 5. But not having the cart takes away the fun of collecting the games, which is a large part of it that I enjoy. -Mike
I think he's confusing some of the options here. He made it sound like the buffering modes will fix slowdown with SNES games. For example, the horrendous slowdown in Super Ghouls N Ghosts, and Gradius III. The only way to fix the slowdown in those games is to overclock the CPU, and doing that wouldn't work with all games, and many games would also glitch out.
Correct, but that patch was due to the hard work of a romhacker named SCD, and has nothing to do with the Super Nt. My point was that the Super Nt can't remove slowdown.
I just cannt watch a Cinemassacare video without James in it.. Mikes know-it-all stuck up attitude almost makes me wanna unsubscribe. I just cannot stand his face lol
Dj Phildeez Totally, but that wasn't constructive criticism. More just you hating on someone, and if you already know you don't like a certain person or type of content just fuckin don't watch it man.
An emulator is absolutely equal or better to any original cartridge. Electrons still "move through reality" when going through the processor of something using emulator software to copy the action of an old console.
The fact that is HDMI only destroys all the "original" hardware marketing... You can't play Super Scope games! You guys are literally clueless on how those thing work at all... emulators, roms, sound chips, mp3, fpga!
Thats partially true. The signal it produces is analog and they convert it to digital. They are working on an analog adapter for the future that will allow light gun games.
quentin sykes that’s not true, there is nothing analog in the super nt, the HDMI signal is directly encoded by a sub core he design into the FPGA. But he said he could output what signal he want and made an external analog adapter without additional lag.
turrican is one amiga game from EU sick play and the best sound track ever by chris huelsbeck im sure mike gona fall in love for the game.i loved to see you play it that uncut vers is the only one that i never play in the series.grts from portugal and game on. :)
Compare the virtual console graphics with the original console graphics and you really see the difference. If it doesn't bother you then the VC is a brilliant way to play and fund Nintendo so they keep going and don't end up like sega.
Mark Curtis you put words into Mike's mouth...he only said that he noticed how bad sound was emulated and that turned him off, he's just a purist and that's fine. Sound is still not 100% emulated with popular emulators so his point still stands even today.
I would say Zero Delay is pretty great for casual gameplay but Mike will definitely want to use Full Buffer for the real deal experience. The zero lag setting locks the frame rate to 60 Hz even while the other two allow the SNES to run at it's true clock rate of 60.0899 Hz. It also allows this console to be used for actual speed runs via HDMI which is wonderful. :D
Also, it's still technically emulation, but a different kind. A better technique, so to speak. Instead of translating/interpreting the code to run on another platform, an FPGA aims to emulate how the actual hardware would work. Capacitors, resistors, etc are all calculated during development of anything, so an FPGA just is another way to reach the same result.
FPGA's are hardware emulation. They're more sophisticated than software imo, but it's still up to the developer to make something good out of it. With the ROMs running on FPGA carts you got a real nice alternative to buying real carts imo, but the hardware itself seems harder to me to recreate perfectly. Imagine recreating just a gearbox of a car vs. the entire car and how it handles around that gearbox. The internal logic of the SNES would be identical I'm sure.
This seems like a fantastic piece of hardware. Glad they were able to bring the price down for the Super Nt. Still not exactly cheap, but definitely reasonable for a system of that caliber. Thanks for showing this off!
Is $40 domestic shipping reasonable? Controller not included.
That's the issue with small companies, the can't compete with big ones when it comes to pricing.
@19RocknRolla91 no, it isn't, ryan
Gotta love how literally the only positive comment was pinned
positrons move through reality
"Electrons move through reality" -Ryan
Electrons need to move through the universe to be authentic. - This Video
Sick fucken profile picture ✌️ &💚
Ryan was probably the kid in school who told everyone he had an uncle who works for Nintendo
😂 everybody knew "that kid."
Funny because his uncle had really worked at nintendo
There's a lot of ridicule, but I get it. I can't fully enjoy my games either without the electrons going the right way.
It's actually amazing how little these guys know about this
How does it work then
@@alexl.4362 Is this guy making videos on the internet trying to explain this to people?
@@elirhoades9418 Yes.
>EMULATING ELECTRONS THROUGH REALITY
I use a Super Nintendo on a CRT with S-cable. It looks fantastic. This appears to be the best way to experience a SNES game in 1080p, but these games were not designed for 1080p. The visual quality on a good CRT is the best way to experience SNES games.
Am I out of touch? No... No it is the electrons who are wrong.
It's the Acorn Electrons
I can never get my electrons to behave correctly. Curse this imperfect physical universe! The only thing in our imperfect universe that can get those unpredictable electrons to fall in line is the FPGA, which programs itself to -emulate- mimic the actual electrical pathways in a Super Nintendo.
Lol..its not hard to see that these clowns aren't electrical engineers
2:23
You're welcome.
Ryan sounds like me in high school when I learned for a topic by just memorizing data points without really understanding it.
I would love for someone to make a video where Ryan has to guess if the games he is watching is emulated or not
It'd be like the perfect response to their "You can't tell the difference between PS4 Pro / Xbox One X and the original consoles" videos, lol.
I mean if these guys can't see the difference in higher res textures, better shadows, higher resolution, (sometimes) higher framerates, etc., then how could they ever hope to spot emulated vs. non-emulated SNES? Even this emulation console itself has them fooled.
Usagi Jojo it's not an emulation console. FPGA isn't emulation at all.
+brando92711 how do you classify FPGAs? It is not the real, original SNES hardware either. It is not even clone hardware. All the FPGA is doing is pretending to be parts of the SNES hardware like the CPU. This will be imperfect in its own ways - some very exotic hardware might not work with this because of some obscure undocumented feature.
Then we have parts that are different by design and intention - the colors of this System are not "true NTSC" colors presented on a CRT in a Japanese official cubical of the era.
You can tell by the electrons.
Wow Ryan doesn't understand. "Electrons flow through reality" lol wtf man
It's called a metaphor...
What he is trying to explain is genuine, He just doesn't know the technical terms. It would be difficult for anyone to express in a video like this.
Totally agree with Math Helper, i don't know why people mock him so much for that, maybe they didn't understand what he was trying to say?
He is saying that software can't emulate perfectly a physical electronic array. And if its more and more complex then its more and more difficult to emulate and the mistakes are more noticeable. People that disagree with that are simply wrong, thats just a scientific truth.
@@diegog1853 you're both ryan's extra accounts
If you don't get it pumping to 1.21 jigawatts and re-atomizing through the third stratosphere of time uniracers just won't be the same. Lol
Dude that was the worst explanation on why physical hardware is better than emulation. Did he say electrons?
through reality
There's just no possible way you can replicate the way electrons move through reality.
Sure there is.
"It's naat emulation! It's naaaat! Oh, hi mike!"
"Oh, you reviewed all my favorite games. Good thinking!"
I have a problem with Chun Li she said that I DP + P her!
"You always play technologist with us"
This video got me more negatively charged than an electron
Only science people will understand
ElPenguinMann only people with a middle school level education will understand
Squidward's Testicles shhhh
Lol why?
They are coming out with an RGB adapter for the Super NT. That alone has me considering getting this.
Sounds like someone tried ZSNES in 1993. Sound emulation has been fine for ages now
SNES software emulation has been cycle accurate for quite a while now. Basically, with emulators such as Bsnes or Higan you'll get exactly the same result as on a real SNES. Not that FPGA SNES machine isn't impressive, just wanted to correct your outdated info. And I understand that some people prefer hardware and real cartridges and all that. But it's one thing to prefer something, another thing is to say everything else is somehow worse, because it's not true. Objectively, at this point software emulation of SNES is just as good as any hardware FPGA emulation.
In terms of accuracy, sure, but in terms of playability hell no. The input lag on software emulators ruins the experience. With FPGA there is no inherent input lag, just whatever lag your TV has. There are TVs out there with under 1 frame of lag these days, so with the Super NT and the right TV you can much closer to CRT level low input lag
Im waiting for the day I can play SMW accurately on an HDTV. That day might be coming soon thanks to analogue.
Turrican4D
Like they did with Dolphin, which can be configured to have less input-lag than a real GameCube / Wii even on CRT.
GNJK Nah, it actually plays more or less the same and looks better, if you dispose of all the metaphysics and religious feelings towards the real hardware.
Ofcourse and what they're saying applied to old hardware back in the day over 10 years ago. Times have changed
8 and 16-bit emulation is pretty fucking accurate these days.
The thing is, many games were played using tricks. Perfect emulations is a way to play those games without using tricks. For example Pinball Deluxe for GB is a perfect example of this, only some time ago we were able to play it without using tricks. For example PCSX2 is an example of emulator that uses many tricks to get the games running, they run but isn't perfect emulation. You need to know the difference of playable of perfect emulation.
Axel Janes
You clearly don't know what "perfect" means.
Yes, when it comes to NES, SNES and Genesis games, they have been playable on emulators for the most part even in the late 90s, but perfect? Hell no, not even the virtual console is perfectly accurate.
ZSNES and Kgen are just emulators that were considered "good enough" for the time but now they're extremely outdated and very far from "perfectly accurate".
Axel Janes
What the hell is your deal? Calling some people who like accuracy in emulation virgins and sadists, what the hell have they done to you? Have they broken into your house and stole your belongings or something?
Also no, ZSNES is not perfect, ZSNES is garbage by today's standards anyone can notice the difference from just trying it for a few seconds.
Just so you know, there also exist versions of Bsnes that target performance, and there is also Snes9X.
You seem to not know what you're talking about and you can't carry on a discussion without calling names.
Axel James
You're the one who should lighten up here, since you seem to throw tantrums over people simply using bsnes.
Also no, that's not the biggest flaw of ZSNES. The biggest flaw of ZSNES is that games are buggy and some even just plain crash, sound is terribly emulated and some games don't even have sound due to that.
ZSNES is outdated trash, it hasn't been updated for years. Higan and SNES9X are the only great choices for SNES emulation as of now, you have to either be an idiot or really misinformed if you still stick to using ZSNES and actually believe it's perfect emulation.
Lol Zsnes, far from "good" but keep being delusional
At least Mike doesn't pretend to know what he's talking about. If Ryan wants to b.s. while high sure whatever, but at least put a disclaimer that he doesn't actually know much about the topic.
Ryan looks like he's caught the flu or something.
"B...b...but the electrons move differently". This has got to be the biggest snake-oil bullshit I've ever heard. An SNES is a computer, it has transistors, that are either 1 or 0. It's digital. If you simulate the entire machine state of an SNES you can replicate a 1:1 SNES in software, no matter how electrons flow. Don't even get me started about audio. Of course Emulators don't play mp3 files, they play the original SMC sound files and simulate the SNES soundchip.
You should stay away from technical videos.
Why
That's a neat little device, but I Ryan got almost everything wrong about emulators.
This seems like a 20 minute advert
They're just fans of the hardware. I would be gushing over it in a video if I had one.
Just to make things clear: FPGAs ARE emulation. If the code used on the fpga emulates the console accurately, a software emulator using the same code will do the same thing the same way, just a bit slower
Sionyn Jones considering that games were developed using computers, not the consoles, maybe except old stuff like atari 2600 which had cartridges where you could write down some programs to run
+Laith Iris
FPGA-based retro consoles are essentially hardware emulators, as opposed to software emulators that are common on most platforms. They don't implement the "same code" but rather the same operations used by the system that's being emulated. An FPGA uses VHDL programmed gate-arrays (literally physical hardware logic), while software emulators are sets of programs that run on top of some other existing platform (e.g ARM, x86 etc').
Unlike software, an efficient enough implementation in direct hardware can potentially give way better performance for some systems, where software can end up becoming limited to some degree. So yes, while both do the same thing, they're technically quite different.
Night Yes, they are more efficient, but not more accurate. This thing doesnt offer anything that higan doesnt have
+Laith Iris
Like with any emulator, it all depends on the implementation. In the specific case of the Super NT that might be true, but in theory, an FPGA emulator that's truly done right can potentially be way more accurate than even a good software emulator like Higan.
+ Laith Iris "more accurate" comes down to the amount of polish spend in the implementation. Both emulators and FPGAs run into trouble, when games are using undocumented features of the chip set. An FPGA has deterministic timing on its side - but the only reason a computer can not do that is the operating system.
mike looks like bart simpson
eat my shorts
Like a mix of Bart simpson and some kind of haunted weasel
holyshit these guys were just talking hot air, really had no clue wtf they were hardselling..
james jdh
"Electrons move through reality" lmao
Comparing Super NT to ZSNES from 10 years ago is unfair, especially with how awesome projects like Higan are doing.
Never fly in a jet airliner, it isn't flight the way the Wright brothers intended.
Was this video made by LJN?
Yes
What???
@@uglesovs483 Yes
(Mike makes sexual joke about throbbing) (Ryan pauses, clearly not understanding, and then continues to make point albeit a little flustered)
States it's not emulation, follows with, it mimics a snes........dude, that's emulation lol.
I don't know anything about this, but I'm getting that feeling that these guys don't either lol. It's like they smoked a bunch of pot and decided to turn on the camera and just wing it. It's funny to me, it gives me "Jay and Silent Bob-esk" feeling of comedy.
“Electrons... move through reality.”
Its not emulation, its not playing it off the cartridge but its just reading the rom files.
Isn't that emulation?
Ian Lundquist Lmao! 😂😂😂
These guys sound like Sommeliers (Wine Experts), just with the snobbery aimed at emulation.
somebody should explain them how a fpga works :)
Lasse Berg so go ahead. Enlighten us.
Sorta like an emulator?
As a chemistry student I can say Ryan has no clue what he's talking about when it comes to electrons LOL
They do move through reality; he's right about that.
Yep he's got that part right! lol
XOmniverse they move _through_ reality? thats fuckin amazing
* hits joint *
Snes emulation has gotten perfect accuracy and the input lag from emulation has even seen a wide reduction to zero like in Dolphin or reduction to at most one frame of lag in retroarch for cores. The best way to reduce or eliminate input lag for snes or other systems is to use a linux distro in kms mode using retroarch that is properly setup or use retroarch with a non crap tv or a crt display.
I know I’m replying to a 3 year old comment, but you’re right. On top of that, turning on run-ahead in Retroarch now has emulation to the point that it literally has less lag than an actual console. Combine that with the higan core for SNES and it provides perfect emulation. I still prefer my Analogue Super NT along with my FX Pak Pro though. The hardware is just fun to use.
that sounds like way too much hassle
“The people who built this, built it to emulate... mimic.... I won’t say emulate”
my answer would be "so...emulate."
Do you understand FPGA by now?
"I tried an emulator once, 10 years ago, but it wasn't 100% perfect so I stuck with cartridges"
Well hello from 2018, where we have Higan that is basically a perfect copy of a SNES, or Dolphin that are capable that rendering (not upscalling) Wii games on 1080p, something even the real console can't.
I used nestopia and snes9x since many years ago, I switched to Mesen (nes) and Higan (snes) and these emulators are really really reallllly accurates.
"The way it was intended to be played."
*plugs a cartridge into a device made well after the lifetime of the SNES*
It's the fact of putting a cart into a device, doesn't matter what console.
Ok guys, its "hardware" and shit, but it doesnt stand when TASBot actually works on the real hardware. That means, the emulator was EXACTLY THE SAME as the actual hardware. Electrons moving in reality dont change the result because its digital, the "FPGA is just a gimmick. The FPGA doesnt become a SNES, FPGAs cant emulate analog hardware, you cant emulate an opamp on a FPGA, or a delay line. Sorry to break your "hardware" fantasy but a FPGA is only better than an emulator performance wise.
I agree with you that having the cartridge and the console and all that is an experience, its like going to a concert vs listening to your mp3 player, but i assure you that FPGA is just an emulator, it emulates the original because FPGAs cant do analog stuff, it cant copy the flaws in the originals which were caused by faults in the photolitography process or bugs in the chip design.
@anaesthetics
Still everything else he said is true...
@anaesthetics
well, that's audiophile territory, but they arent called audiophiles for no reason, and studies have shown they cant actually differentiate between loseless and an mp3@256kbps
Regarding emulation my poiint is that, that its still just an emulator, its not "hardware" magic like he portraits it. Having the real hardware is akind to considering yourself an audiophile, it's not suddenly better just because it looks like so to you, that's why i say the FPGA is just a gimmick designed to cather to the "hardware"-philes.
Software could be more *accurate* than any piece of hardware. Hardware has "tolerances". I.e. no SNES runs at exactly the spec'd frequency. As the hardware ages that's going to get worse. An FPGA is still a simulation.. if you're going to get butt hurt over the *realness* of emulators then an FPGA is just as bad.
donpalmera actually worse because it costs $$
Have you played something like Super Punch Out with FPGA vs emulation to feel the difference? Timing feels off in many emulations, especially GMA ones.
Offtopic kinda: As a UK SNES owner from the year of release ('92, right?) the "Famicom" design for the European SNES just gives a warm feeling in my soul. But, I always thought the US SNES design and colouring was pretty cool.
Did anyone else have similar feelings?
This feels like a Infomercial. ROFL!
IT is, they are hardselling this shit.
It really is that awesome if you are into authentic retro gaming like me, them and people like us
I think emulation is fine. The minuscule reasons to spend hundreds of dollars (or thousands) more to have "the authentic experience" isn't worth it. Saying emulation doesn't get the absolutely perfect 100% original audio is like saying you don't go to concerts because songs being played arnt 100% EXACTLY like the album.
It's more like going to see a cover band imo. I'm generally fine with SNES emulated sound, but the Genesis/MegaDrive music is where I got to have the real thing.
They are rich as heck thought, so paying $150, even $400 for smallest smallest amount of difference is worth it to THEM, and then they tell everyone to just "pick it up", like its a pack of cigs, not a big deal.
Stringbats yeah but they are being a little pretentious and condescending as well especially Ryan. Talking as if emulation just doesn't come near. Talking about electrons lol. And saying the SNES is putting on a live performance of the audio lmao. He acts like there's a tiny Yes concert going on in the SNES with light shows and spinning drummers and fog
after I bought the NT mini, I never use the NESa emulator (and others 8-bit emulatora like GB etc) again, now with the super NT, I probably will not use the SNES emulator any more.
Software emulators does not comapre to FPGAs
phonzeh but u are aware that the Genesis 1, 2 and 3 all have different sound chips and sound different from one another right?
so what is the real thing in your opinion?
If you really care about perfect emulation then you wouldn't play on an LCD via HDMI.
@VideoGamePlayer okay ryan lmao
The Analogue Super NT: ELECTRONS MOVING THROUGH REALITY
- Ryan, Cinemassacre 2018
>sees ryan
*closes video*
>sees ryan
*massages testicles*
Lmao. True
Poor ryan
to be honest, these two guys are not appealing at all to me and they explain these technical specs so bad..
and not even correctly since it *is* emulation nonetheless
Axel Stone but it isn't emulation. Emulators translate the code whereas FPGA based systems run it natively by basically reconfiguring an array of transistors into the same configuration as the original hardware.
brando92711 As far as I know FPGA is hardware-emulation and for instance the system on a chip stuff is software emulation (running with some linux frontend)
I could be wrong ofcourse
Axel Stone not to beat a dead horse but I'd say it's more imitation in the sense of being a true clone of the processor than a system that runs code emulating software
It may give you a better experience than a software emulator, but this is honestly the definition of emulation. Wikipedia: "In computing, an emulator is hardware or software that enables one computer system (called the host) to behave like another computer system (called the guest). "
I agree with Axel on this. If you want the real deal buy the original hardware. The FPGA in these systems could ACTUALLY just be ripping a ROM from the cartridge and running an emulator, who can accurately say otherwise unless you reverse engineer the mini nt/super nt?
FPGA cannot operate without Software telling it what to do. It's Emulation
The classic that started it all
How is playing SNES games at 1080p on hardware not made by Nintendo more accurate to "the way it was intended to be played"? Fuck off with the Framemeister and everything else; original Nintendo hardware is the "authentic" experience, and everything else is no better than software emulation.
Love you guys. But come on. Look at this video compared to My Life In Gaming's about this system. Night and day.
What I imagine they do is smoke a lot of weed, sit down and turn the camera on, have nothing pre-planned, nothing written out or scripted, and just wing it with completely wrong information, and then just think Ah we're Cinemassacre so tons of people are going to view this anyway
Just like they usually do, why are you surprised?
Man... Fatboy is sure in LOVE with Mike.
Mike, many of us don´t have access to some garage sale, or retro stores. Most of the world is not that full of old console cartridges to get. It´s a pain in the ass, extra expensive to import or impossible. So yeah...it´s not always an option.
but they go on how bad emulators are. How dare you person in 2nd and 3rd world countries use an emulator - Mike Matei. Sorry they don't have it as perfect as you, Mike.
Ebay
Mark Curtis You sure don't watch his many playthrought, that's ok...keep being arrogant.
Shaka12 Mike is speaking for himself, you don't have to take what he says personally...keep using your ROMs and emulator or buy an Everdrive and play ROMs on a real SNES.
So weird. It's like listening to a pc elitist argument... for a console...
I see this video being used in a future one called: Episodes We Regret
Electrons like move through reality man.
the argument vs emulation is just wrong, cinemassacre as a whole has the one flaw of being extremely adamant vs emulation with absurd statements.
Some emulators are better than others at handling various things, there's pretty much no excuse to bash emulation nowadays besides having some console under your TV or using specific accessories, like wanting to use the NES light gun for duck hunt.
I know you guys "really" appreciate your consoles, i do too, but the bashing vs emulation is totally uncalled for.
They obviously don't have much experience with emulation.
I see this in a lot of collectors and I think it's mostly to prop up their ego's and justify the insane amounts of money they have blown on collections of games and hardware/setups. I think they feel as though their investments and self worth are threatened by the ability to just download and play the games they have spent so much money on lol.
I'm totally fine with however somebody want's to play their games but before I'll personally take someone's criticism on how I play my games I expect them to at least have some knowledge to backup their arguments.
This felt more like an Infomercial to me than someone who has actual knowledge about the subject.
I love retro nostalgia but there is something in me that digsusts me about these new consoles. I dunno. Maybe I was abused by a game gear or something.
Should have put a disclaimer at the beginning of the video saying "Ryan literally knows NOTHING about emulation at all". I hope no one watches this and "learns" what Ryan said and go around repeating it when arguing.
ELECTRON BLAST PROCESSING
Phrase of the year: "electrons.... move through reality..."
Now I can see that those videos about Crossy Road or Vikings the Screaming Face App Store Game weren't that bad, actually. They had their facts right.
This is sounding a lot like those arguments from people who insist on listening to their music on Vinyl records.
You guys look like Burt n Ernie :)
I'll just play NES games on a real NES and SNES games on a real SNES.
"it's not emulation it's a chip that acts like a super nintendo"
nice
lot of buzzwords and prior used arguments
this video was bad
Emulation is referenced as "emulated through software" which is not the case with this console, hence why he mention that it's not emulation. Yes, if you read the definition of emulation it also include hardware but that's not the popular definition of the word emulation.
FPGA's use software (Verilog) to program them into acting like the SNES' 65C816 processor. It's emulation.
@@Warrax22 When I was a kid, they argued about the dangers of children emulating the moves in Mortal Kombat. My point is that the true definition of emulation is not specific to any one thing, and you're all fools.
Can't finish this video. Sorry fellas.
Is this video satire?
SavingPrincess its ignorance
@@wildgun95 yeah? How so?
@@craigjuan5744 Just watch the video, both are talking out of their asses
Yes it is.
I bought one of these, but to play devil's advocate, one could use their classic systems, but an OSSC (line doubler) for way less than a Framemeister, and the good thing about going this route is that it will benefit all of your classic consoles, instead of JUST the SNES.
OSSC doesn't offer 5x 6x scaling and you are still converting analog to digitial where as the Super NT is purely digital. So less noise and most likely cleaner audio.
Its a quality device.
Did they finally fix OSSC for SNES output?
What was the issue with SNES?
I remember it had a lot of issues with different TV setups for some reason. If you google it you'll find out about it immediately. It looks like they did attempt to fix it, but still not fully compatible with all TV's for some reason.
I'll never understand the point of hardware cloning, when we're in an age of Nestopia and BSNES offering 100% cycle accurate emulation.
If you want the nostalgic experience, you'll want the original hardware.
No emulator offert 100% perfect timing, cycle accuracy only apply on emulated CPU part, video, sound and IO synchronisation and timing are faked by software.
BSNES sure is convenient to use...not.
Nestopia is only about 80% accurate at the best. You'll want puNES or Mesen for 100% accuracy on the NES. You're correct about BSNES/Higan being accurate, though. After all, byuu helped with the Super NT's design.
Global Medicinal Marijuana once again, emulator can only pretend cycle accuracy on code execution, they can’t do anything about input and output lag induced by the operating systems overhead, nor they can accurately replicate precise signal timing and often shows as sound, dma or video glitches.
Fun facts: FPGA are use for prototyping chips. Argonauts who has created the Super FX chips for Nintendo back then have used an FPGA for prototype and test hardware design.
When I grow up, I wanna be mike matei.
Over exaggeration big time also that sound chip was made by Sony not Nintendo.
'over exaggeration' is an oxymoron
jameshetfieldserbia
No, it's a pleonasm.
Jesuto Nai yea u r right
what a cute lesbian couple
Hits a lot harder in 2024
I think Mike wants to play real cartridges because he can spend money. If you put Contra 3 on an SD card in the system and hide it from sight, you would not be able to tell cartridge from rom.
Perhaps not. Never said I could always tell the difference. I can sometimes though, like if it's bad emulation. Like for example I could tell if it was the Retron 5. But not having the cart takes away the fun of collecting the games, which is a large part of it that I enjoy. -Mike
Cinemassacre Well then I think there’s only one option... blind play test video. Do it Mike!!!!
Yeah I'm not buying this one either
SNES Classic: Official Nintendo product, comes with all the best games
Analogue Super NT: Bootleg product, comes with hundreds of menu settings
Video game snobs...
I think he's confusing some of the options here.
He made it sound like the buffering modes will fix slowdown with SNES games.
For example, the horrendous slowdown in Super Ghouls N Ghosts, and Gradius III.
The only way to fix the slowdown in those games is to overclock the CPU, and doing that wouldn't work with all games, and many games would also glitch out.
Super Ghouls N Ghosts has a rom patch to fix the slowdown.
Correct, but that patch was due to the hard work of a romhacker named SCD, and has nothing to do with the Super Nt.
My point was that the Super Nt can't remove slowdown.
Slowdown RULES
Yes it can moron. Did you miss the "zero delay " mode? Idiots like you shouldn't be allowed to use the internet.
May Michelle Marquardt not sure if serious o.o
Emulation is light years ahead of anything you've shown as far as hardware.
I like my scan lines as deep as they can go.
I just cannt watch a Cinemassacare video without James in it.. Mikes know-it-all stuck up attitude almost makes me wanna unsubscribe. I just cannot stand his face lol
So don't. Why are you here if the title literally says it's just Mike and Ryan? To shit out a negative comment? That's nice and productive.
ethankapolis criticism is productive.
Dj Phildeez Totally, but that wasn't constructive criticism. More just you hating on someone, and if you already know you don't like a certain person or type of content just fuckin don't watch it man.
Thank God Metal Jesus also covered this, I won't have to force myself to watch Ryan.
They talk about emulation like it's still the late 90s.
I totally agree with Mike when he says only using cartridges. I too enjoy the collecting and maintenance for them.
An emulator is absolutely equal or better to any original cartridge. Electrons still "move through reality" when going through the processor of something using emulator software to copy the action of an old console.
That electron bullshit makes Ryan sound like he took LSD before this video or something.
This could have been so much better if you guys dressed up like Tim and Al from Tool Time.
"Duuuuude real cartridges though..." for 25 mins.
It’s still a form of emulation, it’s a console emulating a snes console, it’s not a Nintendo SNES
The fact that is HDMI only destroys all the "original" hardware marketing... You can't play Super Scope games! You guys are literally clueless on how those thing work at all... emulators, roms, sound chips, mp3, fpga!
Thats partially true. The signal it produces is analog and they convert it to digital. They are working on an analog adapter for the future that will allow light gun games.
quentin sykes that’s not true, there is nothing analog in the super nt, the HDMI signal is directly encoded by a sub core he design into the FPGA. But he said he could output what signal he want and made an external analog adapter without additional lag.
RGB i almost forgot about that aye , because the nes nt analog can play zapper games since its got AV, S-video and RGB for crt tvs.
quentin sykes the signal is pure digital! You are mistaken! There will be a digital to analog adapter/converter (so they say)
Yes when I think of the SNES I think of Super Scope games...
turrican is one amiga game from EU sick play and the best sound track ever by chris huelsbeck im sure mike gona fall in love for the game.i loved to see you play it that uncut vers is the only one that i never play in the series.grts from portugal and game on. :)
Mike is one hell of a purest. lol
Personally, I prefer having officially emulated games from services like Virtual console.
Compare the virtual console graphics with the original console graphics and you really see the difference. If it doesn't bother you then the VC is a brilliant way to play and fund Nintendo so they keep going and don't end up like sega.
Me too, I don't really have the room and having all of the classic systems and games on my tablet comes in handy.
Mark Curtis you put words into Mike's mouth...he only said that he noticed how bad sound was emulated and that turned him off, he's just a purist and that's fine. Sound is still not 100% emulated with popular emulators so his point still stands even today.
Oh, so you prefer inferior emulation. Got it.
Warrax
Have you even used any or today's emulators? Sound emulation is perfect.
I would say Zero Delay is pretty great for casual gameplay but Mike will definitely want to use Full Buffer for the real deal experience. The zero lag setting locks the frame rate to 60 Hz even while the other two allow the SNES to run at it's true clock rate of 60.0899 Hz. It also allows this console to be used for actual speed runs via HDMI which is wonderful. :D
Why would I buy one of these if I already own a working snes?
HDMI HD TV will look soft and have lag.
Nearly $200 and it doesn't include a controller. Wow. I will keep using my SNES from my childhood on my CRT until it dies.
shit, you guys, I didn't know that all these people who watch your videos were such genius tech gods, lolololol
my thoughts exactly, most of them probabbly dont know what they re talking about :P
Also, it's still technically emulation, but a different kind. A better technique, so to speak. Instead of translating/interpreting the code to run on another platform, an FPGA aims to emulate how the actual hardware would work. Capacitors, resistors, etc are all calculated during development of anything, so an FPGA just is another way to reach the same result.
Mike never played Super Turrican??!!?!?! WTF?
So? Not everyone played all SNES games back in the day...rentals didn't have all the games, etc. GET OVER IT.
+Ryu Kami I've never played Super Turrican either. It's not gonna be the end of my life as a result of that.
Turrican was mostly popular in Europe. Get over it.
Ryu Kami
Turrican was more of an Amiga game, then it finally got a SNES port..
@@rexapis2125 pce, mega drive, c64 also had a turrican port. Even more systems i cant remember.
FPGA's are hardware emulation. They're more sophisticated than software imo, but it's still up to the developer to make something good out of it. With the ROMs running on FPGA carts you got a real nice alternative to buying real carts imo, but the hardware itself seems harder to me to recreate perfectly. Imagine recreating just a gearbox of a car vs. the entire car and how it handles around that gearbox. The internal logic of the SNES would be identical I'm sure.
spends lots of time talking about super turrican.... spends no time playing super turrican