Luxman L-505ux II Review Part 2 with Denon PMA-2000IVR Amp
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- Опубликовано: 3 фев 2020
- 0:00 Comparison, 6:27 Phono Stage, 9:30 Using As Separate Amps, 15:51 One More Thing.
Luxman L-505uXII US$4500(2020)
Denon PMA-2000IV-R US$1200(2006)
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Pretty good summation. Good job! Sorry your having to go down this bumpy road. I recently went though this and was surprised that trying to improve my system I took a step backwards. Good luck!
I will sit back think it over and try something new, thanks
Very informative! Thank you for another great video!
Bro I believe this is the very honest and very unbiased review you have done really a very great work.
You are so valuable to audiophile enthusiasts like me.
Plz keep up your passionate work.
Thank you.
Mr.Tharbamar is the Best !!!
Really good review!!! I'm searching for new amp, and i was looking to luxman class A amp, but now after your review i've some doubts
Excellent review ! I hear much of the same sound as you describe of the Luxman in many demo's on utube. I like the look of the shiny glitter of Luxman. Some people will like to listen to both sounds perhaps. I suggest living with both in the home for several months if you own both.
I knew this would happen! Valid comparison. Great job
Thank you.
Very good, detailed review Sir! I felt somehow at the beginning of the video there won't be so much different.
Man that Luxman gets major and I mean MAJOR points on looks alone. I want one as my last dream purchase
i thought the Luxman would beat the Denon in every department....I learnt something new from this video...
Returning stuff is a hassle, but I'm glad you didn't talk yourself into thinking you loved it like so many audiophiles seem to do...(and for that kind of money it should be love) I'd probably try some other brands in the same price range before you start throwing more money at it. Good luck with the search.
What you described is the Luxman "house-sound" more refined, sweeter and smoother. I found it is lacking in dynamic... I used to have the Class A version and this one. Sold both. Also you might wanna try the lesser known Sony TA-A1ES which sell for less than 2K new and you can find them at 1K or less used. The Sony is also a smooth player with a bit better dynamic.
Denon pma 2500ne is a very good amp. It had enough power to make my b&w 683 s2 sing, But in the end i picked up Hegel h190 for its impressive detail and control big on power as well
I do appreciate your honesty and trust your ears. The main issue is that I believe your speakers are relatively hard to drive. I suspect you need to pick an integrated amplifier that has a significant amount of watts/channel. If you had high sensitivity speakers, my hunch is you would have a more favorable opinion of this Luxman. But another issue is that you preferred the Denon’s phono stage. That might be difficult to beat unless you go up significantly in price. But I’ll be watching what you choose next!
Love your videos!! I'm in the market to get a nice integrated and my picks are about the same as yours. So, here's a question: have you had a chance to hear the 505 and the 507 together? Is the difference is sound, quality etc, worth the extra $2000? And if you had a choice between the 507 and the Esoteric F-07, what would you pick? Whatever I get next will be my last amp (hopefully). I really love the Denon PMA SX-11 but we don't have that in the states.
Everything is better on 507 obviously but I don’t think it is worth extra money for that personally, F07 is a bit more warm than 507 base on my experience with them in the past but every audition is not in same set up, F-07 will be my choice for overall better build and more engaging sound, thanks
You might like a vintage Luxman to give you those dynamics and smooth highs but with punchy bass and sweetness. I have heard good things about the sound of the Luxman L10 and I think you can pick them up quite cheap.
Back to the shop goes Lux................to be continued. Thumbs up.
Denon makes great phono preamps. I have the pma 1600ne and the built in phono stage is outstanding. And btw, comparing the pma 1600ne to the Luxman L-505uXII would have been a much more fair comparison. While the Denon that you have here, still sounds good it's so old that it should be gone over by a qualified service person before just to make sure that its within spec.
Interesting comparison, I think upper midrange is the one most difficult to get right, not just for amps, but especially for speakers, sometimes I think that reviewers spend so short time listening that they don’t experience fatigue, which really is a no go for an audiophile that usually listen for many hours at a time.
Very good review, would you try out the Norma ipa 140 or the Luxman 590ii Class A ?
Keep up the good work.
Thanks for suggestion, I'm going to tried some McIntosh and I would stick with brands with long history and proven quality reliability, I will stick with Class AB for now, thanks
EXACTLY what i said in sound demo comparsion i have owned to much audio gear !! That Denon is a BMF ! with a simple modi 3 dac ohh my the top end will ✨ on denon ! Marantz cd player already has warmth to it Modi 3 you most likely will like it pared to Denon
Thank you for the review , love the channel buddy
Denon intergrated amps are where its at for budget to midpriced audiophiles and higherend to if their audiophile snobbery pride doesent get in the way. From the older ones and the current baby 600ne on up....just the USA doesent know it i find it amazing that we dont after all the nice shit they have made over the decades i bet the 800ne would tear the 505 up....smh
Do you think Denon 2000IV for $1000 is good deal second hand?
@@JoJanDiezel Depends on condtion the ivr actually comes with a remote.
if you like that muscular warm sound than Yes , Great thing about the Denon is it sounds great with Bright sounding speakers But yeah send me the link on my page and see if you can haggle them diwn to 800.00 cash . that amp will compete with amps from 2-3 grand New now . And i like the mosphetes in the output stage 😃
Luxman has always been a premium brand. And at $5000 it had better be damn good, lol!
I suspect once you get up in that territory you will not hear great differences between gear.
Then again, I heard a GamuT $15K+ integrated once on a set of speakers I owned. And, yeah,
it had a big bold sound. Bigger, deeper, more impactful than any other amp I've heard on
these speakers. In fact, I was kind of surprised that those speakers could DO that, lol!
So who knows!
You could also try Hypex NC400 monoblocks
I don't know for me you spend that much money like $4,000 integrated amplifier it should sound perfect maybe it does other people's ears🤔 not yours personal preference I guess🤔 I don't know I used to have a $20,000 system and now I have a 2,500 to $3,000 system and I enjoy that just as much as I enjoyed the other one only would $17,000 more in my pocket. Again personal preference if you want to spend that much money go right ahead but to my years you're not missing out on anything!! let's just enjoy the music✌
Yes I agree with you I've done that as well at young age, now my max limit is 10k for amp and speakers, after that price point I don't see the point of spending money, thanks
You are right. I have two stereo systems, one is around 10 000 euro, the second system is around 4000 euro. I enjoying both systems and some times i ask my self, why i spent 10 000 for a system when im ok with my second system costing me 4000 euro. Music is the more inportant thing then the room acoustic!
Very interesting !
For that amount of money I prefaire go for the YAMAHA-AS3000 that retails for 4500$ here in Sweden.
W.H.R
Is this the price new?
Vic G Yes new with 2 years warranty
The Luxman L-505ux II retails for 5000$ by the way 😂😂
@Nikola Belhadj Sliman I tried them at the store it is very good sounding amp but they do seem to have some minor problem with them, thanks
Tharbamar Could you be more specific about the minor problems that you have experienced. Quite honest I never com across complaints on hifi forums or groups regarding issues related to Y as-xxxx series. W.H.R
Hi any comment on Denon soundstage (image and depth)? You only mentioned separation your review. Thanks
Wow sorry to hear this. I hope the 507 proves to be different. It certainly cost more.
Interesting review... by the way, volume knob position is totally irrelevant. Denon uses a potentiometer, Luxman uses the Lecua system, you need to test both at the same volume level and ignore knob position (that's just arbitrary)
Good review. Thanks.
How does either differ from the equivalent Yamaha A-S1100 or A-S2100?
Hi, which speaker did you prefeer?, the JBL Studio 530 or the Wharfedale Diamond 225? thanks.
Hi! Is the Luxman compatible for use on a 120V supply? I was looking at some of its pictures from an online retailer and the label says 100V (?)
There are choice 70's / early 80's units
Outperforming 90's gear from the same companies
That goes for integrated , pre amps and power amps .
It was the Labs division gear era -
Nice review! Maybe try Denon pma sx11 ? Or Denon pma 2500ne
I’m very interested In PMA SX-11, thanks
Good review... I am just getting into your channel. I think the B&W are you issue. You should audition a pair of Dynaudios with the Luxman. Just a though.
Im really thinking on pulling the trigger on the luxman but im very afraid cause everyone is telling me that I can get more for the money! But I just gave back a naim back didn't like now im going to try the moon 340i but I love the vintage luxman i have so im very confused.
Looking for
detailed review of Denon PMA 2500 NE
I want to buy Denon but can't find it my area, so I stuck with Yamaha as1100, great sounding amp, detail, drum and bass drum attack is powerful, I love it. Still want to try Denon though.
Yamaha is very good amplifier.
What speakers are you running?
I sold my mint condition Denon PMA-2000ivr about a month ago. It was my backup amp for about 10 years and I always thought it was smooth but a little muddy and lacking detail compared to a lot of amps that I have owned over 25 years, including some high-end separates. I much prefer my Yamaha A-S1100 (now 2 years old) which is significantly more transparent sounding overall with tighter bass, better soundstage, and more realistic top end extension w/o being bright. But of course, these are personal preferences in synergy with other gear including speakers and source components so it is best ignore ALL of these RUclips reviews and experience these amps with your own ears.
They work the best with B&W or KEF speakers but to be fair you have to compare AS1100/AS1200 with PMA-2500NE because significant age different like 20 years between them. Thanks
You need a tube preamp and solid state amp but you want to stay with a integrated system.
Are you still using the military grade power distributor you shared sometime back? Did it do anything to the sound? thanks
Yes It's my favorite power strip.
The difference is that you will get the old Denon for approx 700-1000 EUR and the Luxman for approx 4500 to 5000 EUR. Check the new Denon 2500ne
Now I have Denon PMA-SX11, by the way 2500NE 80% same as 2000IV.
That 505UXII was a joke, way overpriced for overseas markets and it does not even come with Luxman owns transformer.
@@Tharbamar thanks for your answer, i have since the 90s the Denon PMA2000R and i am still satisfied, the Luxman is a top amp but, yes in Europe overpriced BR Hannes
I see a few have already mentioned this and I agree. I think you should try the Yamaha AS2100. I have the 1100 and it’s sublime. Outperforms many more expensive amps I’ve tried/owned Could be just what you’re looking for. Also, if you didn’t like this Luxman, why would you go up the line and potentially spend more money? Just curious..
A-S2100 is end of production, I will wait and see for new gen, thanks
Tharbamar I did not know they were replacing them. Do you know when that will be?
@@michaelgreco8614 My guess is 2020 Tokyo International Audio Show.
@Tharbamar Denon PMA- 2500 NE is completely made in Japan with high quality components? and from your or your friend's experience, is it brighter sounding or smooth sounding amp? I am in confusion with Yamaha AS 2100 and PMA-2500 NE., My speakers are Tannoy XT8F.
It is Made In Japan in Denon's Shirakawa factory, my friends preferred Denon 2500NE over Yamaha A-S2100 for power, dynamic range and high quality DAC etc., Peak current is very impressive 110A, full Analog Mode by turning off DAC and display. According to my friends its leaps and bounds better than 2000 series with neutral sound with a bit of warmth on sound signature, It should work well with your speakers, by the way this amp power rating is way under rated.
@@Tharbamar Thanks for your reply...best wishes for your next amp hunt..
Have same dilema. Own xt6f tannoys . I can buy denon pma 2500 ne for deason deal and balf price of luxman . All 2nd hand
Thanks
The PMA 2500ne would be my amp of choice if we could get it in America outside of the crazy 1x of course...since we cant get those beasts the 1600ne it is for me. Even the baby 600ne and 800ne beats up on much more expensive amplifiers, Denon the great Known Unknown of audiophile amplifiers...
Denon Integrated amps were best sellers in Japan compare to any other brands because I have the sales report of major retailers but they're not popular here, it may be a good thing.,
Try the Yamaha A-S2100 - here in Europe/the Netherlands €2200 (is about $2400)
More controlled dynamic body power in the lows and fast and refined in the high’s
All pure analog and sounds like a class A-amp - also on low volume -
- much cheaper - and also two VU-meters -
Discontinued I hear
The A-S2100 is overpriced here at USD$3499
Yes it is end of production, I will wait for new gen.
@@Tharbamar i heard from a lil birdy the new Yammies are right around the corner...😉
When you upgrade to the 507, youre in price segments there are many good amps. When you want to stay on japan quality, dont forget Esoteric! Maybe a match for you...
Esoteric is very expensive
@killahtomata Esoteric F-07 (Used) may be very good option and I'm thinking of Denon PMA-SX11 for better price to performance as well, thanks
@@Tharbamar how much is it?
Used F-07 is about $4.5k and brand new SX-11 is about $4k.
i like luxman ..
I have a mint condition Denon PMA-2000IVR that I've owned for well over a decade and it's OK. If I had to summarize I would say the Denon is smooth but dark sounding overall, not quite the top end treble response that I want and a bit round in the bass lacking in detail and attack. I've owned many amps that are more transparent with better overall 'clarity' than the Denon. In comparison, my newer Yamaha A-S1100 is 'cleaner', 'clearer', and more 'open' sounding overall with better frequency extension up and down the range. It's also faster with tighter bass and transient attack. Same for the less powerful 60wpc Ayre AX-7e. It is more like the Yamaha than the Denon. The Denon has always sounded a bit dark to me. As for phono stages, I always use an outboard dedicated phono stage so I haven't compared them on these integrated amps. I'm not a huge fan of the Denon. It's my backup amp and I've used in a couple times in my office setup. YMMV.
The setup: Denon, Yamaha, and Ayre integrated amps. Tannoy Definition D500 tower speakers (91dB 6 Ohm nom.), Sonore microRendu network streamer, music library on Synology NAS, 16/44.1 uncompressed lossless PCM CD rips, 24/96 and 24/192 lossless PCM downloads, some DSD files, Qobuz & Tidal streaming services, Roon software.
Denon 2000IVR Amps work the best with B&W or Dali speakers because that's what they are designed with and mostly personal taste as well, All Yamaha stereo amps below AS-2100 is bright for me but to each of own, they will outperform many amps when it pair with low sensitivity hard to drive speakers because it has better power supply than $3-4k integrated amps of today.
@@Tharbamar "All Yamaha stereo amps below AS-2100 is bright". That's hilarious because the Yamaha A-S1100 is identical to the A-S2100 except for a set of balanced inputs. When I auditioned them they were both sonically the same. I chose the A-S1100 because I couldn't see paying the premium for one set of balanced inputs.
On the other hand, my Denon PMA-2000IVR is "dark" and slightly veiled sounding with any source component or speakers I've had it on.
@@voodooaudio It does not sound the same for me but if that sound the same to you that's good, to each of own, nothing is hilarious here.
Next review please wharfedale evo 3 way speaker
how about Luxman L-505ux II vs denon pma-2500ne??
The pma 2500ne is better in two aspects, sound quality and build quality.
Did you try the luxman 507 ?
Luxman or denon with harbeth?
Can you imagine him yelling/ arguing at his wife, kids or anyone for that matter?🤔🤔🤔 Me neither!🤪🤪😇🤗 I sure wish I was this chill!😬🥶😬😬🤗😇 A complement in the highest order by the way!😉😝 Great review comparison as always!🤓😎 It also appears the Denon is a much better value considering one can find one used for pennies on the dollar vs Luxman $$$$ PRICE TAG.🤔🤔🤫🤫😬
Price to performance is very hard to ignore but I still want to try something different, my wife very supportive up to 5k price point 😎
Hi hows the difference between this old denon to your new denon ?? Thank you
PMA-SX11 is in different class, in Japan they are direct competition to Accuphase E-480, Thanks
How did the luxman sound with your KEF LS50 speakers?
It was good but Denon have better synergy with LS50 for me.
Denon it is
I think Denon after better capacitor choices / voicing , could sound less edgy in the highs , and more relaxed and tonally refined .
Have fun with it....
No, try it, if you have one just as power amp. With another preamp. All Denon 2000 series are superior power amp!
@@angelnikolov1193 Sound like pre amp section of Denon is giving this brighter and edgy sound , it could be capacitor choices/ voicing of Denon pre amp, or it could be greatly improved by better voicing.
Don't be affraid to try it knowing you can always go back to original...
I may play around with Nichicon Caps after I settle on new amp, thanks
what’s next on line?
Hello my name is José I will like to get your opinion on bookshelf speakers under $500.00 dollars, I see so many reviews and I’m confused, I’m looking for a pair not to bright something that won’t hurt my ears thank you.
If you like dynamic sound Klipsch RP600M is good, for more smooth laidback sound Wharfedale Diamond 225 is very good. Thanks
Because I dont like Hegel too, I suggest Naim Supernait 2 or 3. I tested yesterday and in my opinion better than Musical Fidelity M6si, Hegel H360. Can by better than Luxman 505 too..Good to find music even for 1 year, because we always try to find Perfection! 😊
I agree with some others, try a Yamaha and see. I would also say Hegel, but I know you don’t like the look.
I tried Hegel H190 and H390 I do not like the sound not the look and already tried Yamaha at store as well, good sounding but not great for me, thanks
Tharbamar ok fair enough! Tough one.
You should try really the NAD C275BEE amp/NAD C165BEE preamp combo for $2,500 total for both units. I think Michael Fremer of Stereophile said if you are looking for an amp at $10,000 or less you should definitely put the NAD on your shortlist. They are that good! When people talk about bass control really is a case for current not watts. These NAD amps have more current than that Luxman, about twice or three times the amount of amperes. They have more amperes even than Mark Levinson at $20,000...
Thanks for advice, I do not like any NAD products and I don’t trust Michael Fremer or any reviewers in general. Only trust my ears, thanks
@@Tharbamar I agree with you. I do not trust reviewers and I like to listen for myself. That is why I am telling you should give them a listening session to see if you like them, otherwise you will never know if they are good sounding or not... Have a great day. If you haven't listening them you cannot say you do not like them. It is impossible to not like or dislike, or like something you haven't heard.
@@Tharbamar Go for Yamaha M-5000 and your search will be over for the rest of your life. :)
I have heard many different amps including NAD but not the model you mentioned above, to me they are good but not the best for me, my current integrated amp peak current is 20A and I’m looking to get a integrated amp with 60A peak with 240A high current capability, thanks
For Yamaha 5000 separates, I’ve heard very good things about them from Japanese friends but they’re way overpriced here in North America and I’m not ready for another separates, thanks
In my experience, Denon is accurate but dry sounding. Yamaha amps tend to sound much more musical and easy on the ears. Give the Yamaha A-S2100 a try if you like.
Denon isn t dry to me. It s warm musical 3D sounding. Yamaha amplifiers are great, but i prefer Denon sound.
Denon amps have muuuch better bass reproduction generally, actually from lowest frequencies through to mids.
Yamaha has much weaker and generally inferior bass compared to Denon, and this has been true for decades.
Direct testing reveals.
Luxman's Voltage is 100V? do you need a transformer for it to work for 110V?
This is USA 120v model.
@@Tharbamar Where did u bought the US 120V version?
It's interesting to note that for the $, the specs are nothing special at all. Hard convince myself that I can get a lot of gear for that $ with far better specs all around. I'm skeptical honestly.
I think you've dismissed the Hegel H190 rather too quick ... .
As an ex Hegel user I have a feeling you may just find what you are looking for in that brand. Read up about it and perhaps also get in contact with John Darko who uses and reviewed a number of the companies amps. They are superb. One of the Highlights at the yearly UK Bristol Hifi Show and used by a number of exhibitors.
Powerful, refined/smooth with some of the best bass I have heard.
Perceived value may not quite be as much as the Lux (to some) but SQ is what matters in the end.
For what it's worth, they (Hegel) look very nice on a rack in an imposing, clean and understated way, quite unlike your two amps. The easy readable OLED display is superb.
Yes I tried H190 and I even tried Hegel H390, they are not for me in terms of sound quality and price to performance. They do not have delicacy that I like and rather equalize sound signature to my ears, also I do not want overprice Chinese amp, thanks
John Darko's vids are paid commercials.
@@Gary_M I thought I'm the only one that knows 😃
@Tharbamar - I was getting suspicious. There seems to be a lot of RUclipsrs, who either own stores or work in stores, that seem to be pushing the Hegel. I thought I was being paranoid, but these comments seem to align with my suspicions.
I don't trust Darko and most of the other youtubers too... and anyways he tends to love a lean sound signature which is not my cuppa tea
is it the same with denon pm2000? i saw many variants of denon pm2000
PMA2000 is first generation, PMA2000VIR is 4th gen with updated pre stageq
@@Tharbamar does the sound on the 1st gen and the IV have big difference?
Denon is less agressive and bright than Luxman, although a little bit “bass” heavy, but that was also a mark of Denon’s amps since decades ago. I don’t replace my Denon for any competitor from the same “league”, let it be Marantz, Nad, Luxman, Onkyo, Yamaha, etc. Its sound never bothers me. If you want a better sounding integrated amp than any of these, try Rotel, Audiolab or Naim. Even if their power ratings are normally not very high, they excel over this Luxman, in terms of overall sound quality. By the way, I’ve recently heard this B&W’s on a decent budget system, and I found them too “bright” on the treble range....
use to own the denon. the preamp section is it's weakness, add a good preamp and the combo is hard to beat.
If you watch the video, he said the Denon was brighter...
Gary M His opinion
Theres alot of praise for the Yamaha amps and i owned an AS3000 model for some time before going all valve. If the 3000 represented the peak of their amps at the time (theres a 3200 now) then the lesser models cant be great. The AS3000 is dull and lifeless to me with a thick sound signature, poor transient response and a very closed in soundstage. I didnt realise how poor it was before i put a considerably cheaper 25 watt unison research valve amp in place of it. Ive also tried a Luxman LX550 mk2 and it was better than the AS3000 in some respects but in my system sounded too lean. It baffles me that people flock en masse to solid state and simply miss out on the soundstaging and flow of a good tube amp despite the flaws they may have (tube fails/noise).
Never tired tube preamp before. I have an NAD M22 two-channel amp that is great. I’m wanting to replace the Parasound P5 preamp with something else. What tube preamps do you like in your experience?
@@cpg8000 Ive had great results with Unison Research for tube integrateds. Cayin make well built budget tube integrateds. A good inexpensive tube pre amp would be an Icon Audio LA3... i had one about 7yrs ago and it is astonishingly open and spacious sounding for the money... as ever try and get a listen of things and most of all dont let anyone else tell you what sounds best to your ears 👍
@@tomwebb7091 excellent advice. Thank you for the recommendations! It really helps
I am disappointed in the Luxman. The next stage up looks great but too expensive IMO.
If you like listening to "sounds", spend $5000...but if you love listening to "music"...Yamaha AS 1100 $2500 is more than enuff! Hell, a $200 receiver works for me. I don't sit there staring at VU meters and molest the metal material.
Moving up the chain could mean switching to Accuphase.
Very tempting but Accuphase is way overpriced here by U.S Distributor.
The Denon is a better looking amp, use to own the PMA 1550 but went separates and not going back
Just by looking at the Luxman it sounds 50% better already without even listening to the amp.
Welcome to the world of psychoacoustics.
I live in Russia . We have a price for Denon PMA-2500NE 229 990 rubles, and for Luxman L505uxII 338 000 rubles.
And the Yamaha A-S2100 is only 129,990 rubles.
Yamaha ampsare built very well, very reliable, but almost never sound as good as Denon.
keep the denon and pair it with other speakers, bowers and wilkins are a bit harsh, it's the trait of metal dome tweeters.
Actually I like the way it sound only with a few down sides, Denon and Accuphase amps were voiced with B&W top of the line speakers, which is very well known publicly in Japan.
i had a denon b&w combo for many many years
french company Devialet makes some great sounding amps and have a program called SAM wich matches the amp to your speakers!, really did wonders with my Audiophysic speakers when i demoed it
I guess you need to get separate pre/power amps
I do not want separate anymore, I really want to stick with integrated amps, thanks
@@Tharbamar it may be hard to get the quality you want with integrated amps
Yes but newer amps from Accuphase and top end Denon amps are getting there to the point of current flow and performance of separates.
Moral of the story: go separates.
Came from separates, started with the separates, always been separates, after all most of them are way overrated, except big dollar items, all marketing.
Tharbamar
Both will blow you out of the water..
What is fast 0.01sec?
What is slow 0.03 sec?
What is tight 30cm?
What is controlled 20rpm?
How do you even interpret from what you hear into such specific details that no one can attest to?
Please learn a better pronounciation. You sound like you are eating your words