When you try to empathize with the narcissist...
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DISCLAIMER: THIS INFORMATION IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT INTENDED TO BE A SUBSTITUTE FOR CLINICAL CARE. PLEASE CONSULT A HEALTH CARE PROVIDER FOR GUIDANCE SPECIFIC TO YOUR CASE. THIS VIDEO DISCUSSES NARCISSISM IN GENERAL.
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The Narcissist misunderstands empathy with patronizing.
Yes, exactly. Because they always patronize instead of empathizing. And when you feel uncomfortable being patronized they feel injured that you don't recognize their "good intentions".
Yes also gloating
Lol, yes, snark is an anagram for narcs.
👍😎
@@agaobi573 yeah! This is it. Goodness. Her narc, hell qhole family, would patronise everyone! She really had no choice but to be narcissistic. No wonder she felt "conflicted" visiting her family and left me the face the brunt of the snide abuse.
@@eddierayvanlynch6133 Yes, clever & perceptive
It’s just imposible to make a narcissist happy. But they like to play the victms all the time. It’s exhausting.
This is a victim rewards 🌎 world they love it and it works 🤬👹
They don't truly understand the term playing the victim.they really don't get it even when explaining it in bits they still reverse the statement. They don't see the mirror.
It’s not your job to make other people happy. ...
Though We are groomed to be people pleasers who have no sense of self .... Babysitting other grown up people’s lives is at the cost of your own peace, happiness, sanity and personal growth. Every person is responsible for their own happiness. Children’s behavior mostly mirrors the behavior of the adults in their lives.
its trap ..hell
@@uknowmestalker4446 no
You said it, “damned if I do, damned if I don’t.”
So damn…I’m walking away!
No sex because it never helped improve the misery they heap on to you.
👏💖💯%🎯
In reality you can't at all. They don't even understand what you're doing when you try to be kind and automatically assume that you're trying to gain some sort of advantage or one up on them. It's completely mentally tiring to try and help someone that thinks you're against them
Yes they impute their bad motive unto you... Totally crazy!
@pasture green Agreed it’s like pigs 🐷 in shit they revel in it... Demonic 🐷👹💀🤬
So true, I told him so many times : I am not your ennemy !... desperatly...
Exactly. I've said the kindest and empathetic things and it was turned around and it felt like a punch in the face. There was no right way to say anything to this person. They responded best to self-deprication. Damned if you do is right....
Dr Ramani is my hero. Without her I don’t know where I would be.
Me too.
I hope she gets as much from us as we get from her.
My court stuff is over with. I fought really hard and I got exactly what I wanted. Which sounds a little selfish but it was what I could handle and so I ended up showing up in court and they gave me exactly what I could handle. I care about Dr. Ramani so much I want to protect her for many many generations to come
Me too!
Me too! God bless her
This is an irrefutable fact, no doubt.
Empathy means vulnerability, means weakness means disgust, means hatred means anger.
Amen 🙏🏻
Wow, Suzanne! That is genius! You start out as empath and end up as a narcissist at the end of the distorted cycle. This is so confounding. You should post this statement in every forum.
Explains why my n.mom doesn't value me... I'm empathetic she feels vulnerable I get the disgust and anger control and put downs 🙋🙋
@@elcee7800 Taken me many years to join these dots. And to shake off the self blame, finally! Take care 🌸
@@bereal6590 Totally understand this, same here. I hope you have found a better place filled with strength and confidence. ✨
When you try ro emphatize with the narcissists, ALL HELL BREAKS LOOSE!!!!
Exactly 🤯
So true. When I just tried to know more about a toxic coworker's complaint, things were getting worse. He sent me blackmails then and accused me of things that I was not responsible for. I should've ignored his complaint at first.
I always wondered why he retaliated when I was showing the empathy I craved. Wow.
EXACTLY Right
Empathy with a narcissist is like giving a thief the key to your home! 🤔
Love this comment!!!! My empathy got me in sooo much trouble…. He was a vulnerable/victim narc and I fell for it. Yes he had the keys alright!!!!no worries… I am free now.
Thank you
Exactly 👹🤬
FUCKING-AAAAA! THX JEFF
i love this
All I said was “it’s a difficult time for sure,” and I got hostility back. The narcissist was expecting me to jump into action, volunteer my services. Little did they know I had cooled my codependency and was no longer falling for the manipulation.
It is sooo good when you finally have some mindfulness in front of the narcisist. I've had a few. I am hoping to have all my next encounters with narcissists in a mindfull empathy-selective state of mind. 💡
@@artifundio1Wow! I love "I am hoping to have all my next encounters with narcissists in a mindful empathy-selective state of mind". This is perfect!!!
Yes we need to stop 🛑 being a 1st responder to parasitic demons👹🤬
They don't like it when you do that! 😆
@@mayyourwishesallcometrue Let's call it S.E.E.M ... selective empathy encounter mind?
“You just see them as human. Problem is, you don’t see them as superhuman.” That’s the key right there! I’ve made this mistake before and paid dearly for it.
Yup, even superhuman in their victimhood.
Excellent observation
You can't win. You can't lose. It's purgatory with them.
This is how Lady Diana felt with Prince Charles.
Purgatory? I'd call it straight up HELL!
Dito!
Hell yes pure hell
They make no sense they make nonsense
There is literally nothing genuine that doesn’t activate shame in a narcissist.
Exactly they don’t get it
@@OneWhoKnowz And they definitely don't give a poop
true that!!
Exactly. Every single thing has to do with them in their minds. So because of something you said that's harmless can offend them. You can do it without even trying!
Exactly DR RAMANI it's a damned if you do and damned if you don't, so either way they will shift the blame on you.👍 up survivors and thrivers 🙏
If you're kind to them, they lash out and abuse you. If you give them space, you're uncaring and not being supportive. Ugh! It's soul crushing.
@pasture green exactly they feel entitled for you to come and apologize to them and they were in the wrong, hmmm imagine that 😂
I dealt with this pyscho behavior for over 20 years … done ! Healing my inner wounds .. self love .. boundaries .. I am no longer a doormat .. I am ENOUGH .. I
Mine was the vulnerable variety. If he was going through something tough, he wanted me to acknowledge it - but not to offer solutions. My role was to hear him whine about the same things day in and day out for years. Some days he would be upset that I was trying to make him feel better. Other days he was upset I wasn't trying to make him feel better. There was no winning. Ever. When I told him how bad I was feeling with tears in my eyes, his response was "I AM SO BORED!"
These creeps are immature, selfish, shallow and not even worth the pain of our regret.
emotional sponge
The “I am so bored” response is such a difficult statement to handle until you recognise who you are dealing with
Oh my word so true. Was always good enough to listen but not to offer advice or speak. Always soothing him. He couldn't handle stress of going in bank or tax etc. I thought he was just vulnerable and easily stressed. Was so stupid of me. All the narsisism has come to light now after praying to God and asking for help on why I feel so empty and lonely in my marriage.
In a profoundly sick society sometimes the best thing to do is absolutely nothing.
Except rescue and care for wild birdies!
I've understood the Theory of Relativity more than relating to a narcissist.
LoL!! Right?!
Same.
🤣🤣💩
The Second Law of Thermodynamics is that heat expands to fill all available space. I suppose empathy is a warmth that naturally expands but ... into available space. I suppose narcissism isn't an available space.
Hahahaha I feel your pain man.
But, the best way is.
Listen to Dr Ramani.
She knows exaactly what she is talking about. Every word out of her mouth is precise and descriptive of a real Narc interaction. It's funny, she will use a word to describe the situation that at that moment you exactly thought or even uttered yourself.
There's the Playlist called "glossary of Narcissm terms" if you may, go through it all, by the end, you will have every single tool you need.
there are also narcissists who jump at the opportunity to “console” you just so they can turn around and share with everyone how they were “the only one there for you” and if you reject their consoling because you legitimately don’t need it - they are outraged
Yes! I had someone who didnt respect my space and would tell me that I couldnt say that They werent there for me. Like you werent there, you just couldnt respect my space.
Catch 22 is right. So difficult dealing with these people
Thank the Good Lord for Dr. Ramani- I lost over a decade already. With her help I can actually let go and move on
Over a decade, that's rough 😢
@Salma Shahab same here... But possessing it helps... And moving on and turning to another direction helps. Also focusing on your own
@Salma Shahab so time to get your healing power on and close those wounds with a lot of good will towards yourself :) you can do it :)
I could never understand why he always pushed me away in anger when I was supporting him. I couldn't understand that anger in him!!
Now I do. Thank you Dr.
Ohh jeez. I did all of the mistakes with my vulnerable narc "friend".
When he claimed he was self-harming and called himself a horrible person, I told him "I don't think you're a horrible person, but please seek help. I'm worried about you, please don't hurt yourself".
I was called condescending, and a bully.
And when I didn't acknowledge his struggles and "meltdowns", I was pinned as a monster and a bully who "denied his humanity", and my not acknowledging his suffering was me saying that everyone would be better off without him.
Even after I've gone NC months ago he still rails about me being both condescending, a bully, a life-ruining b*tch, etc.
After I got out I needed to take the time to cultivate kindness again, because I was scared of getting blowback or being exploited. And I still get awfully scared of speaking up.
Had similar situation it’s horribly sick .. They just want an audience member with NO feedback just applause 👏🏻👹🤬💀
I had similar insanity with a covert/vulnerable narc friend, it left me feeling depleted and like life was bleak. I count it as a learning experience now, and feel better armed for if I meet somebody I could fall in love with.
Kindness went out the window a long time ago. I don't acknowledge his feelings anymore
Good, because they will use their emotions to manipulate you. If you do for them they always say its enough. If you dont they will claim you were never there for them and so on. Thats where damned if you do, damned if you dont come it.
Say its Not enough***
Still done on a daily... blah blah blah blah. All I hear is whining hahaha
A corollary to this is that "you have never helped them". It doesn't matter how much, how often or how big you have helped them in the past. In their head, it never happened. They didn't need help from anyone.
And anyway just helping was the normal thing to do. No appreciation whatsoever.quickly forgotten by narcissist.years of listening.building up .supporting financially etc etc.....
Exactly the scorecard is always been deleted if you helped them 🤬
"Damned if you do, damned if you don't"... pretty much sums up all interactions with narcissists.
Amen.
I literally used to say those exact words to my ex. I genuinely felt damned no matter what I did.
Nope not gonna enforce the trauma bond by empathy, not happening anymore ❤️
Preach!!
The way this has been remedied in my life is I don’t reach out to any narcissist anymore. Empathizing with a narcissist is a nightmare and they didn’t like it, so I’m giving them what they wanted which is no more of it!
Whether I was empathizing or not didn't seem to bother them as much as my feeling happy. It was my feeling happy about something that I stopped sharing with them.
@@millville YES! Being HAPPY is definitely the thing they HATE about us the MOST! They consider it their MiSSION in this Life to WIPE that SMILE OFF our faces! They literally took away everything that I loved that they could get away with. Now I’m smiling that they are GONE and OUT of my Life! 😅
Everyday was tiring for me....
-Constantly judging me. Physically, personality, education, the way i dress and down to my voice.
-Makes me feel unworthy.
-Everything was my fault.
-I had to apologize for every argument. And admit the mistakes even it wasn't mine.
-Gaslighting.
-He always make me feel I'm overreact to everything.
-Lies. A lot.
-Easily got angry. Even to smallest matter, to the joke I've made and to the simple question I've asked.
-Empty promises.
-Forgot everything that is important to me. My birthday.. And simply laugh about it.
-Always check on others girls. Flirtatious.
-He always admit he's handsome.
-Was always his story. If it's mine. He immediately want to cut it short.
-Always pressuring me something i didn't want to.
-Blocked me, yelled at me whenever I've said the wrong things.
-I feel like I'm constantly being watched 24/7.
-Even I cried. It doesn't matter..
Since then I've never been in to any relationship. It's been 4 years. And I'm still healing.
He sounds extremely insecure.
@@elcee7800
Really?.. That's interesting to know..
Hes very tall & good looking guy.
He always said everyone always looking at me cuz I'm handsome, my body is too hot, my face looks like an actor..
@@Anonymouss_99 : To me it looks like he’s unloading all the crap HE can’t handle being in him onto and into you. Cause he’s the showpiece.
@@elcee7800 really.. thanks.. cuz i feel so worthless..
@@Anonymouss_99: Yeah I could see why with that looong list of his. You’re real and genuine, he not, so you should feel worth, not him.
Thank you for this video Dr Ramani. I've just learnt that my husband is a cross between a covert and a vulnerable narcissist.
If I tell him I have a headache, he will say he has a headache too and how much worse than mine it is.
I understand what you feel, my grand mother is the same
I have cancer they have stage 4 it’s disgusting 👹🤬
Covert and vulnerable are synonyms for the same type of narcissist. The other type is overt or grandiose.
I’ve decided to just stay home and work on healing for awhile.
Nailed it. I shut down because of the blame shifting as a result of acknowledging the narcissist's humanity. I refuse to accept his problems as my fault.
"...and some people are far more attacking, brutal and punitive than others." 100% right on, once again. My narc mother and my narc grandmother were at war all their lives. I was their witness. My mother had often complained about her difficult childhood, and I had listened. Tricky enough. I was an adult when my mother gave me a journal to read that her mother, self-righteously, had written about her when she was a child. What I discovered in it was way worse than I could have ever imagined, the fallout from poisonous pedagogy. ("Yesterday we had to slap you black and blue again because you had misbehaved"...the two-year old!) I told my mother that I was horrified, and that I finally saw what she had been exposed to as a toddler. Her rage was unexpected for me - what did she expect if not empathy? She screamed, if she had known that I would trash her mother, my grandmother, she would have never shown it to me. How much she regretted this! That I had "betrayed" both of them. With my empathy? I was stunned. But I learned from the experience, so I understand whole heartedly every sentence Dr. Ramani is saying. I have been there....
OMG! What you said that your grandmother did to your mother. How horrible. That you were able to see what and why you mother was, and what formed her, is great empathy and insight. Unfortunately, sharing it with your mother wasn't the way to go. That being said, at least you know you aren't the one with the problem. Wishing you well.
@@paulad.4578 Thanks for your empathy! I grew up pretty confused. My mother, being so mixed up that she adored and hated her own mother at the same time, and expected of me that I loved my grandmother (who was a talented and accomplished artist, with a sadistic streak). What was I to do? As Dr. Ramani says, "you can't win." I worked through all this with a very good therapist when I was in my Fifties. But all the stuff that happened before I got there, oh my, but I did, and I am so grateful for it. Channels like this one confirm to me what I have learned over the decades. I feel for all the others, who are younger, and still in the fog...it is tough to find clarity. But so worth it!!
Narcissists do not possess empathy and therefore, they do not know nor understand what it is when someone tries to show empathy towards them. If anything, they will find empathy repugnant and use that against you as your weakness.
Narcissist can have empathy. I have seen narcissists have tremendous empathy for their pets and sick children. Sociopaths and psychopaths do not have empathy. Narcissist have an unwillingness for empathy, but it doesn’t mean they can’t practice it when they are willing. Narcs have the capacity for empathy, they are just empathetically unresponsive unless they choose to be. And yes they use your emotions against you, while also using their own dark empathy manipulatively. Again it’s a matter of willingness.
Exactly 👹🤬💀🐷
@@jupiterjazz692 Is it genuine empathy, though? Or is it that they may be worried that their most consistent and convenient vehicle for narcissistic supply is in danger, leaving them to have to find another source of validation? The difference between a narcissist and a psychopath is that a psychopath doesn't need external validation at all.
@@raven3moon Narcs are capable of genuine empathy. There are many studies that show narcissist recognize and react to the suffering of others, even if they are motivated to disregard such distress in other people. Many narcs may consciously or unconsciously be motivated to withhold an empathic response to control a partner, or they may exploit their understanding of another person’s emotional state to manipulate them or to gain power. Repressing empathy is a way to protect their vulnerability. These traits are very patterned. They can withhold an empathic response automatically, appearing cold-hearted. We generally see narcissism as only personality traits, but it’s very important to remember these traits exist to avoid shame. Shame is the central emotional experience of narcissism, and narcissistic disorders reflect behaviors that disown or regulate shame. A narcissist builds a lifetime of emotional responses and the responses of others into an emotional expressions script. This becomes a pattern that automates their behavior in different ways. One of which may be repressing signs of empathy to avoid shame. The unwillingness is simply self protective. In a lot of situations where one might expect them to empathize, their limitations instead activate a sense of helplessness, followed by scripted responses to shame such as shame fear or shame rage (protection from some trauma or imagined trauma from the past)
@@jupiterjazz692 Cool. But, if they do feel it, and selectively use it as a manipulation and control tactic, then it doesn't really matter to those they're abusing whether it's genuine or not. It may as well not be, for all the damage they're doing in spite of what little empathy they have and apply.
I went grey rock long ago, and these valuable lessons from Dr Ramani remind me that I did the right thing.
Treating everyone the same, fairly, with kindness and respect and then expecting the same back was my mistake. Narcs seemed normal half of the time.
Yes and vulnerable/covert narcs are often best described as sheep in wolf's/wolves' clothes
@@LOKI77able Yes, the only thing which seems to unearth them is time, and watching them in different kinds of situations and interactions.
@@timothydraper3687Indeed, as a rule covert narcs are definitely harder to spot and identify then their grandiose "counterparts"
@@LOKI77able I've learned some of the signals, like black and white thinking, only having time for their own point of view, not liking to be told no, or told what to do, liking to be in control, liking to denote status by telling others what to do, and lacking a certain amount of patience, finding other people's humour incomprehensible. Entitlement and being self absorbed, and being guarded about eye contact too. I guess if one meets the 'right' person to fall in love with, taking time to sus people out as an approach doesn't matter in the end.
@@timothydraper3687 They definitely don't like being told no, but they have no qualms about telling other people no, often times even abruptly, at least in my experience anyway... I don't know whether this sounds familiar to you...
OMG this brought it back!! My ex blamed his anger and outbursts on work stress and his childhood. I said "I understand love. Do you want to change career? Change jobs? Move to a cheaper house and get rid of the mortgage? I understand, your dad was horrible. What do you need, how can I help you?" He then accused me of putting pressure on him, and of 'mud slinging'. Suddenly this makes sense. I couldn't understand it for a long time. Thanks, Dr Ramani 💛
Narc screamed at me "What the Hell are YOU crying about" when she told me about her husbands terminal illness. During this time, months, the abuse was ramped up. Narc was using husbands illness as an excuse to abuse. Other family members were all in for that. They ramped up their protective shield for the Narc. It became unbearable. I went No Contact during this time. Did not attend the funeral or have any contact. I'm REALLY the bad buy now. "How could you Abandon the Narc during her time of grief". I put up with this for 45 years. There comes a time........and it's never a good time to go No Contact. Just necessary for my and my families sanity and mental health.
Worst decision as possible. I did it myself. Gaslighting, blame-shifting and all the BS they do is put onto you one way or another, later or sooner. I mean, they would even literally tell you said things THEY'VE said. It's incredible. 😅
It’s mind boggling and soul crushing The moment they show who they are EXIT immediately 🤬🚗👹💀👋🏻
His favorite saying "no good deed goes unpunished". I never understood this saying. He was always the victim. It's been 1 year no contact and I'm still healing.
@@dorislaw6294 same to you. It's still difficult for me but there is light at the end of the tunnel. My closure is respecting myself.
So MANY catch-22 issues with them…listening to you is so validating, it helps break the tape-loop of “if only Ida”(if only I’d have … maybe it could have been different ) rumination with the awareness that it wouldn’t have mattered, because IT WASN’T ME! While I have my flaws, the unresolvable cycles were THEIR crazies.
YEA, I UNDERSTANDING THE I'DA STATEMENT. U ARE RIGHT THERE FUCKED UP TOTAL, AND , IF THEY WERE WITH SOMEONE ELSE. IT WOULD BE THE SAME SONG AND 💃! THX JEFF
When you empathize with the narcissist you have lost your soul to the devil.
Mic drop
Yes, agreed! I call She Satan by her Nickname, my dearly Evil "NOT'her"!!!
I just had a thought… Whenever someone asks me, “Are you ok?” or “What’s wrong?” I start crying- like dam break crying. I have often felt embarrassed and ashamed for not being able to control my emotions. I have also felt invisible- like people don’t see me. It surprises me sometimes when someone does, especially when I am hurting. The act of being acknowledged by someone who sees me and that I’m in pain is probably as emotional as whatever pain I’m experiencing. Does that make sense? My narcissistic mother would blame me and say, “It serves you right!” when I was struggling with something or feeling down. I learned to hide my feelings as much as I could.
Yes it makes a lot of sense because I tend to do that too. Growing up with a narc mom and sibling, concealment of all emotion is of the essence. I can't be sad because they'll try to outfeel whatever it is I'm feeling so as to make themselves the ultimate victim. I also can't be happy because they'll try to ruin that too.
I totally relate to feeling invisible, and that our feelings are totally peripheral. I also viscerally relate to holding back all negative emotion, repressing them like mad, but as soon as someone asks if I'm okay, the dam just breaks. I think that may be because in our hypervigilant minds, having someone implicitly question our control over out emotions, implies that we're not doing a very good job of hiding it. In fact, you can only do that for so long before you wear your brain out.
The best thing I've found to do instead is emotional detachment, not emotional repression. You can still embrace the way you feel and take ownership of it, without letting yourself be swallowed by the void of power they hold over you.
I send you all my best wishes and blessings, and I hope all will be well and peaceful for you very soon 🙏💕
Yes I understand this... I'm the same way 🙋🙋
During my darkest period a number of years ago, when someone asked me "are you ok?" I asked "Do you want the 'social answer' or something closer to the truth?", which helped to clarify where they were coming from and began to limit who I dared share with and who I just backed away from knowing they were not going to be supportive & best stay away from them without explanation.
"Selective empathy" 🙌 Thank you very much Dr Ramani!
I understand the reason for this. It's ultimately approval seeking behavior though, which is not good. I won't change who I am and the good habits I have just because a person gets angry. Thats their hang up, not mine. If they get mad because of kindness, then I'll leave them alone and walk away, but they will never be able to honestly say that I didn't care, because I didn't change who I was due to fear of their reaction. It's not about winning with them or getting a certain reaction. It's about winning with YOU, by sticking to who you are and your good habits.
Very well said 😊
The narc partner declared he's dying, won't say of what, when, how. I'm a nurse but he won't let me help. So during shock of this, he evicts me since he is the owner during the covid lockdowns. So I have watched while I packed and moved. He has a new gf he's hiding, suspect she moves in after I'm gone. And the active dying doesn't require Dr appointments nor medications. Any offers to empathize are angrily jumped on. So i leave him to his demise on his own. Not my style, but his wishes and ultimately I figure it's lies. Grateful to be out of the situation.
@@joywebster2678 Wow. What a jerk that guy is. I'm glad you are out of there. You can't help someone that doesn't want to be helped, and he clearly doesn't want it.
Yeah,this is really true. My Narc husband sister died and I try to console by hugging him because he was crying. But he pushed me away and put his head on the dining.he ignored the kids when the kids try to hug him.and said we should all sit down in anger.
Thank you! This is so important❤ You are right, it does not matter. It is so confusing with them. If we show empathy or not, they lash out anyway, sometimes dismiss you, give you the silent treatment, or accuse yo of being nice because we have a hidden agenda (projection). As you say, it is crucial not becoming fearful of showing empathy because of the many bad experiences with the narcissists. Preserving our authentic, kind, and empathetic self is crucial.
"Damn if you do, damn if you don't" - 100% correct.
Contempt for human weakness. That explains a lot. After a TBI, an aunt shamed me for talking about it, tried to minimize my suffering, wrong comparisons, and then threw toxic positivity. It's affected everything I do, even moreso back then. A lot of pain. Not mentioning it at all would've been hard. Was not able to do basic things much at all at that point. Now I can do more than I could then but a ways to go still. Come a long way though. Here's an example of the toxic positivity;
And I do love you so I would like to talk about things with you... like your knowledge about things. Your joys. Your hobbies. There is more to you than this.
She also had told me that she didn't want me to dwell so much that I miss out on life.. On relationships with fam and friends. I told her that this is something I'm going through now. We did talk about other things as well. Don't even remember talking about it with her much. I explained the situation of how the injury happened that day and she told me herself and my cousins have health issues and don't share every detail. They talked about theirs a lot and I don't think there was anything wrong with that. She didn't like when I pointed out her behaviour and it blew up. Would be good to keep it that way. Looks like I got hoovered since and it was tricky but kind of dodged it. It's likely she's the reason a cousin disappeared suddenly not long after the injury. Can't think of anything that went wrong and we chatted regularly. Cousin showed up again many months later trying to contact me about the aunt. Think she's a flying monkey so I blocked her. This isn't the first time things were really off with the aunt but I didn't realize it was narcissism before so I was more open to change. Didn't know enough about narcissism. Have since figured out that another family member is a narcissist as well. It's been a lot.
Their hypersensitivity blinds them. Can't tell you how many times I've tried to empathized and it backfired.
When they have a bad day just say "I'm sorry. That really sucks." and just move it along. Lol
The fact dr Ramani videos are always like
At first I wasn’t identifying with this one but then you talked about the covert/vulnerable Narc and that was more in line with my experience. They would blow up on me but from a totally different place. To offer support was to open a can of worms. The source of her struggle would somehow, like magic, shift from whatever outside source, (not getting the right kind of attention from her sister at a party for example) to whatever failure of mine from the past was most convenient to her in the moment. She couldn’t acknowledge that she could not be consoled but it was also somehow my fault that she could not be consoled. Confusing… And if I tried the distanced approach, at some point, usually later that day, some sort of baiting would ensue resulting in my punishment for not having reached out sooner. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t.
I have a narcissist mother-in-law and she freaked out on me when I told her that 'all we want is for you to be happy' during an argument(that she brought me into). It was in the first stages of my relationship with her son, before I knew she was a narcissist. Bc I said that she took off and left her family, then she didn't see us for months and by the time she came back months later she acted like it happened yesterday. She berated me, called me nothing and that I was 'just a girlfriend'. I guess me recognizing that she had a problem triggered the insane rage that she kept in for months.
Got discarded by my narc ex 3 months ago and after we broke up is when I realized that he was a narcissist. You have helped me understand so much. Like literally almost word for word of what you said is exactly what I experienced. Thank you Dr Ramani.
thank you Dr Ramani...you came into my life right when i needed you the most...i thought i was going crazy
This! Dr. Ramani's, "You're damned if you do and damned if you don't with a narcissistic." So true of all of my narc family members. I went no contact with most of them 35 years ago. I have very limited contact with one person, also a narcissistic. I try not to get hoovered into their drama. Instead, when they're in a crisis (i.e. always), I say, "Oh, what do you think you're going to do about that?"
This must be why my ex said he had no problems from childhood when we went to therapy and why he hated going to therapy. He probably felt extremely weak.
I used to offer my help to a most likely narcissistic friend. She freaked out at that and said I thought she was helpless. I stabbed in the middle of a wasp's nest.
OMD you cleared my mind! I taught the right way was for me to have the same personality with everyone (that it meant I was real and authentic to myself). I have been trying to get emotionally healthier and my parents which are both narcissists make me feel so guilty because I feel like a fraud around them, having to adapt my personality, having to be angry all the time because they disrespect me on a daily basis. And I keep asking myself if I am a fraud because I act different with different people and at the end of the day, I feel like I am fake. I feel better, now, knowing that it is normal for me to treat different personalities, differently.
I just get so overwhelmed with the thought of 'wow, (parent)'s actually talking to me!! they're spending time with me!!!' And then when you catch it, and you really listen, you realise they never ask you about yourself or your life, or YOUR friends, or YOUR feelings. No wonder we try to cram information about ourselves into a conversational space (which later gets turned into guilt & roomination, because we think we've 'stolen' the floor from them). Never works, because suddenly when it's your turn to talk, they're doing every other activity but listening to you. :|
I wish I could see this woman for once, she's just my savior.
God bless you Doctor Ramani ❤️🙏🏾
It is definitely a delicate balancing act. As a man you may not want to sound all mothering to other close males (brothers, friends, teammates, colleagues etc) in your life but you want to show some empathy when they're expressing and addressing concerns about their own rocky behaviour of they initiate the conversation. It's likely some form of this will come out to people you really care about but you may have to add another layer to it which is "You need to change/Don't you want to change"? So they get an understanding of the ultimate end of their behaviour of they don't which is that everything they claim to care about will be ruined.
Once, and ONLY once, I said "I can't imagine how difficult going to dialysis is for you". I said that to my newly wedded husband, about 2 months after we got married. At that time I was not aware he is a covert and an extremely malignant narcissist. Immediately after I said that to him, he immediately started seething, and EXPLODED in EXTREME RAGE, that I've NEVER seen before. That was the beginning of worse and WORSE rages and abuse, including physical abuse.
I left him 11 months after getting married.
This channel has helped me tremendously in dealing with breaking a trauma bond with two narcissists that I happen to share two kids with. I feel it's really important to educate yourself about how narcissist actually operate. Does anyone have any recommendations for content that address what makes you so attracted to this in the first place? I am trying to do shadow work, face my demons, learn more about childhood trauma, codependence, and attachment styles, but I am still so disconnected from myself after spending the majority of my life in survival mode. I feel angry, abandoned, discarded, and frustrated as hell lately. I can't find any therapist that specialize in narc/empath abuse and desperately need something to bring back my spark.
It took me almost two hours to listen to because of all the Narcs in the house interrupting me. Oh geesh I feel like I've just been Descended Upon. And in the distance, if I didn't know better, I could swear I hear the approach of wings flapping! How you all have a great day! Thank You Dr. Ramani!
😄😄😄👌
The all too familiar double bind. Send flowers, and retreat, my new motto. And yes it feels like I'm losing my empathy, like I'm drained or numb. What I am trying to have these days is compassion for myself. If time travel was possible, I'd go back and teach my inner child or youthful self all that I've learned from Dr. Ramani. I wonder how different it all would have turned out...but healing in the now is all there is an Yes discernment is the key. I listen to that intuitive inner voice so much better than I ever did before, nowadays.
I am in self protection mode these days because everyone seems to see being genuine and authentic as a weakness, a means of data gathering and opportunity for superiority.
I used to really enjoy talking with folks. But in these last 15 years it seems like it’s just a game of one ups manship.
Same.
It took me the first 21 years of my life to go no contact with my Dad. Now at the age of 41, another 20 years later. I went no contact with my mom. I just did this on July 2. I finally broke with her. I didn't know what to do. "Why am I keeping this person in my life that has never been around for me." EVER!!! So now, I feel such a sense of relief and freedom. I did it. You can do it. It hurts, but in the end, we will always be victorious. Stay strong, be confident and you will totally get through this. (lots of paraphrasing. I hope I made sense)
Being in recovery from past harming patterns, substance or otherwise, we feel compelled to apologize for the harm we caused. Thank you for bringing these insights to further guide our actions, very helpful at a time when rearranging our old patterns.
Good thing about having a disability is, I have neither the time, energy or finances to cater to someone else. I am very “high maintenance” now. Hah! Going shopping.
Excellent... Do U Boo ❤️Time is fleeting I also have wasted decades on demons 👹🤬
@@uknowmestalker4446 🦋
I tried to show some empathy fir my mother in law when she injured herself and she totally blew me off and pretended not to be in need of of help. Right then I realized I was never going to help her again!
I think it depends upon the depth of one's degree of 'enmeshment', learning from your (and other's) videos, has taught me not to take it personally, and to just see it as a maladaptive personality, without getting too involved so I can remain (more) in my own peaceful place. Many thanks Dr Ramani!
So true. If he were experiencing something unsettling, I would take notice and say “ Is everything ok?”. He would snap back in a mocking way “ Is everything ok with you?”. I came to realize that when he was having any issues as his complaints always centered around him being victimized by others or not receiving the accolades he believed he deserved …..my job was to sit there …. not offering up any advice…. the only acceptable response would be agreeing “ how right” he was.
My narc ex had admitted something about his childhood, so I told him I supported him and even assured him "that's very normal, I've experienced similar things" to try to comfort him. The next day he blew up at me and said I was apathetic. Far from the truth. Other times I would try to get close to him when he was upset and he would literally push me away so later he could use it against me to say "you've never showed me love!" or "You've never tried to fight for this relationship." If I didn't say much, I was still accused of being apathetic while he screamed and threw tantrums. DR. RAMANI IS RIGHT - Damned if you, damned if you don't!
I've said "I want to be there for you while you're dealing with these changes in your life but despite my imperfect attempts I think I'm causing more harm than good for you and myself" so many times after getting randomly and spontaneously criticized that it became something I remember completely like a mantra. It didn't do anything except eventually get the reaction, "you're just like my mom" which is hilarious to me, I didn't think people really spoke like that, but also because the changes he was dealing with were his narcissistic mother! Ah, like mother like son. I'm moving out in 6 days!!!!!!!! :)
The empathy we give to them, we should give to ourself. And that is the lifelesson.💜🙏🏼
Excellent topic.
I love all the reminders.
Thank you
I have to admit I have only watched a few of Dr. Ramani's RUclips videos (so far) but I am amazed by how I can relate so well to her 'teachings' . She really hits the nail on the head. If the Dr. is reading my comment, I'd like to say "Thank-you". She is so calm and nice in her delivery, but also I hear her touch of humor too! I wonder if she does other videos on slightly different topics pertaining to having had bad childhoods (which narcissistic behaviour does tie into, but so much worse than that).
Understanding is what it is all about. Been here SO MANY TIMES. No winning with Narcissism. Thank you ❤️
Everytime I tried to emphatize with my narc, even apologize, she would tell me I'm fake or I'm just being passive aggressive.
When I don't offer empathy and just keep quiet, she says I'm evil and I don't care.
I lose no matter what.
I think this is the first time I'm "publicly" acknowledging that I have a narc and even in doing so I still feel a little guilty about it. But I'm thinking this what I need, to vent and engage with others going through or who have gone through similar experiences.
I'll never really be truly rid of mine as she is a family member.
I appreciate this space.
Empathy kills ..A narcissist will use that to their advantage against you and exploit you to the extreme . You’ll be left with nothing but a giant hole in your heart and wallet . Grey rock the hell out of them for narcissist thrive off dysfunctional communication and interaction with you whether it be positive or negative . What you say or do will be used against you .
This is absolutely true. Even comforting a person who experienced a close death with this kind of character flaw, they will turn on you.
This was a shocking discovery.
I literally got up to grab my laptop so i could write my comment lol.
This video explains SO MUCH.
I have a colleague who, through your videos, i have realized is a covert narcissist. This girl would do this one thing that just absolutely baffled me, to the point that i even tried googling it and asking my friends about whether they had experienced it because i had no idea WHY she was doing it or what it meant. I am not an unintelligent person so i knew it wasn't me here. I am an empathic person who will listen and ask questions when i am having a conversation with you, and if you complain to me or tell me about something that is difficult for you, i will try my best to let you know i am here for you (realized also that this made me perfect narcissistic supply lol). The thing is, she would consistently and predictably respond to any of my empathic comments with something that would immediately make me feel like i was stupid or exaggerating in my reactions to her. She would also often try to gaslight me into somehow believing that actually its not that big of a deal by completely contradicting a statement she made earlier, just so she could end it with 'its fine'. Some examples:
-she complains about some issue she is having with her boss- me: 'yeah i could see how that makes things difficult for you or how that can demotivate you when you are trying to work' her: 'yeah but its fine its not that big of a deal, just a topic that we came to just now'. This is her favourite phrase and has become my pet peeve: 'It's fine'. also 'Its not a big deal.'
or:
-she complains about her friend and how this person added her to a group chat without asking her beforehand which made things awkward for her- me: 'yeah i could see how that would be annoying' her (under her breath): 'well calling it annoying would be a bit over the top'. LIke how else do i respond???
It's crazy making!!! It left me feeling so confused and stupid for taking her seriously when she told me about her struggles, because every time she would in a sense invalidate how i was responding, by always reverting back to 'well its fine its really not that big of a deal...'. Like ok bitch what do you want from me??? Fuck me for trying to empathize with you, i guess??? ughhh dont complain to me if you then immediately take it back when i try to validate what YOU are saying!
But now i understand. I have been done with giving this girl my time and energy for a while now, but i cant believe how many revelations i keep having through these videos!!! Thank you!!!
Dr Ramani if only I’d been aware of your channel earlier.
I’m recognising the narcissistic behaviours of colleagues at work that as an empathetic person have caused me so much pain, anger and grief in the past.
🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼
I stopped empathising with the narcissist that was in my life, I used to cry when they did and try and be nice to them but at some point I just stopped. I do feel bad that they may feel shame though. Because that's sad. But the rest of it is unpleasant
Thank you Dr.Ramani!I've experienced this so many times in my former marriage and was one of the eye openers to enlightenment!Getting punished for loving and supporting is pure evil.
Wow. The insight here is absolutely profound. Thank you Dr.Ramani..you are very appreciated.
Both of my parents are narcissists. I learned that you need to just stay calm, stay away from them AT ALL costs, be yourself (of course not necessarily around them because some of them will try to find weaknesses but just stick to your guns if you’re a good person), and if they react terribly to you, just speak your truth, then ignore their opinions and reactions just like they would do yours. Everything they say means nothing. Never give away your kindness and happiness because that’s what they want. EVERYTHING they say, it’s all irrelevant, just remember that. Good luck to everyone, I know how hard it is.
Thank you Dr. Ramani. This advice is very helpful. I am naturally empathetic (and optimistic) and I frequently enrage the narcs in my life with my well meaning comments. Now I understand why.
I walked away from my entire family three years ago due to being the scapegoat. My parents contacted me on my birthday this past weekend and I had to lay out the boundary for the first time since I walked away. Today, I got a little emotional when I thought of how doing this hurt my father, so this video came in perfect timing. Feeling clearer… you are appreciated.
Dr. Ramani i hope from all my heart you talk to us about the feelings of guilt that how daughters and sons of a narcissistic parent feel after they’re gone! Specially if the narcissistic parent has passed while the relationship wasn’t good at all!
What I have found interesting is that I was surrounded by narcissus, now I am retired I can look back and see that from an unconscious standpoint I was taking on some of their personas. my wife and I would argue a hell of a lot I have now been away from this toxic environment for a year now and found that my wife and I have become very close. it's only when you have been in the thick of it and escaped do you see how sick these individuals are and how easy it is to become part of their evil ways, without you even realizing it, you start to normalize a demonic way of life that has been manipulated into your unconscious its only when you do work on your self and bring it to your conscious can you see what you can become. it's like a proper gander in loads of small ways where you are told enough lies that it becomes part of your reality, it's like a plague that just keeps on spreading and the worst thing is you don't even know that you can become part of that plague. I'm grateful that my wife is my best friend and that I am away from all of those demonic evil individuals.
I tried this and couldn't figure out why he responded the way he did. Now it makes sense. Thanks for shedding light on this, as well as everything else about narcissism.
THANK YOU Dr. Ramani!! Any advice for managing them is so helpful! No Contact is best but family/work situations can't always be avoided. A month ago I spent 4 days with my sisters family. I made the huge mistake of giving her Narcissistic Injury by saying every time they leave the house is a disaster. At 6 am before leaving she aggressively banged the vacuum around but didn't actually clean anything.
What amazes me is your videos describe the last 3 years of my life adding losing my mom and brother to cancer to all of it! Your videos are a tremendous help. I really wish I seen them sooner!! I left and it got really bad really fast but I was prepared I knew it would be. Looking forward to the better days one day at a time
Look, having an narc gringing on you it's basically you having a very big fan of yours! One of those crazy ones, dreaming absurd scenarios of you too all day long. So you must be awesome inside to have such 1 obsessed fan. Be nice, and keep security distance in between. Your time will come, you are an Rockstar 😘
Incredible.Thanks for even more clarity for the confusing actions and reactions in my previous relationship with a covert narc. I did notice recently that when I spoke to him about how I understood that he was hurting and struggling that it infuriated and insulted him, but also prompted him to ask me how I could do/say the things that I did when I know that he's a sensitive person. Ugh. Not empathizing seemed counterintuitive to me at the time, but seeing the reaction now I wouldn't do it again. This honestly never occurred to me previously.Thank you again.
My friendship blew up BECAUSE I showed him love and kindness and empathy when he was struggling. The final straw was him being furious that I praised the progress he was making after a breakup, and when he blew up because I was “ignoring” his pain by talking about anything other than that, I told him I totally understood how he was feeling (frankly, he had made me feel the same way a year before, but that’s another story), and his reaction was to not speak to me for a week. So I told him “you’re right, let’s not talk any more” and he raged in my face at my audacity… and when he questioned the text I had sent him where I explained that I knew how he felt, and described my own experience, he said “why are you talking about YOU when you should be talking about ME?” (I know, right? Wow.) and I explained that it was me showing him empathy. I stopped short of DEFINING “empathy” to him, although I was tempted to.
At the time, I didn’t know exactly what I was dealing with. I just knew it was toxic and I needed to get out. It’s incredible how clear it all became. I know him SO WELL that when I think back, I can see the shame in his eyes. (although he claims I don’t know him at all… despite me being the only person other than his therapist who sat and listened to his tales of woe for so many years) It’s all really painful. I’m still glad I’m out of there, but I do hope he’s still doing the work in therapy and is improving. There’s a good person under all that mess.
Oh my I have walked straight into this so many times! This has been an eye opener. Thankyou
Thank you. Perfect description of my daily struggle.
To say or not say.
To smile or not to smile.
To say yes or to say no.
This was a good one, Dr. R. as an empath, I have struggled so much with this. But with your help, my therapist, and my meds, I know I can do this!