I would make an exception. If you are working through your problems trying to heal through understanding your childhood. I am trying to work through my issues and have developed anger. And the only people I put that on are the parent narcs. Not even my ex husband narc (whom I hold no grudges for anymore and I wish him well). But the 70 yr old mom my entire life has yelled at me my age as a reason for me to shut up. "You're 10 yrs old, grow up!" Add a decade each time. So I went a long time not working out my issues because "I'm too old...." Oh good example. When Woodstock came back in the 90s I remember watching the "kids have fun" on MTV. Years later I realized I was only 22yrs old thinking I was too old to go myself. Lol tragic. But that's what I mean. So I would submit that age isn't a factor if you're finger pointing at the right people (not innocent victims) because you're trying to work out the spaghetti mess of wires that is the problem. As long as you're not just relying on your childhood to KEEP doing your behaviors that affect innocent 3rd parties. Thanks for hearing me out. Just that children of abuse tend to internalize things the wrong way and put off working things out.
Unless, you're my narcissistic sister :-/. Just turned 70 and her childhood victimization is as fresh as if it had happened to her last week! She forgot nothing and beats everyone over the head with it!
Actually, when narcs reach a certain age, the excuse enablers come up with is 'You can' t change him at his age. Just cope with it: he /she is old.. '.
my sibling still blame shifting &&& lying and sniveling - a real Drama Queen- he upstages EVERY birthday, wrecks weddings & makes spectacle in Funeral.
Pack animal! Brilliant analogy. That's definitely what is felt like, but unlike a donkey, who knows when it's dangerous to keep going, and refuses to go any further, we humans keep on going until our back breaks.
There are two interpretations for “pack animals.” The first is animals living in packs (wolves). The others is animals that carry or pack loads on a leash (mules). The OP was referring to the latter I believe.
Enablers have been manipulated by the narcissist. The narcissist has played the victim role around them. So they will try to justify the narcissist’s actions.
@@raccuia1 I did justify his actions but I don't anymore as I see its all pretending he will try and manipulate everyone around him if he could... As he doesn't want anyone to see the true person who he really is... He wants to be the good guy but in fact he's the one whose caused all the chaos and pain 😂
There's a Kids in the Hall bit where the recurring horrible creep character Cabbagehead is trying to get a woman to sleep with her, and when being a lecherous creep doesn't work he fake-cries and goes "I had a bad childhood!", trying to get her to sleep with him out of pity. She replies snidely "So did I; that's how childhoods work." That response always makes me laugh, and it's my go-to mental response whenever a narcissist starts using their trauma as an excuse to traumatize others. Obviously not EVERYONE has a bad childhood, but many, many people have, and as the Doc says, not all of them turn bad themselves.
Ram, why isn't this being taught in schools? Would save countless lives. And I giggle every time she plays the role of the "Narc"! Keep teaching us...we need you!
@@m998hmmwv7 those participation trophies are for the parents not the kids. Kids don't gaf. And the only person I've ever known to publicly hate on participation trophies is actually a malignant narcissist. Narcissists are made by their parents, not some little ribbon.
@@nicbro3831 Anyone with some remote form of honor and dignity would hate on a participation trophy. Edit: I'll reiterate, they wouldn't accept a participation trophy.
Dr Ramani, please update us, curriculum on the way with time. Mental health awareness is improving thru the channels and resources at youtube, thank you. The community and comments here almost word for word what I was thinking or going thru. The last five years can't happen again. But because they did we finally have a way to cope, understand, educate myself, seek help, regulation and alignment follow. Channels here never leave us stuck. Education heals so much.
I was codependent. Diagnosed. I learned through years of therapy and spirituality that I had to be the one to love and heal myself. When I learned I was responsible for my healing, I realized they were too. I think that was a pivotal point for me. I learned to have boundaries and not make excuses. The people who hurt you will never be the ones to heal you. It’s your responsibility to heal yourself.
Congratulations 🎊, aren't you wonderful and in doing so you are far from selfish! Doesn't this show us that we all must help ourselves (aka any narcs listening?) Mine forced me 🤰🤰🤳 once married and now I say "If you don't like (karma) your life you can thank that on having forced an unwanted one on someone (me) else prior!
Yeah well thanks to the narc, I had a difficult childhood too. I handle my issues, and don't use it as an excuse to abuse others. My goal is to leave the world a better place, not perpetuate the hell that was inflicted on me.
@@marieborchardt2910 I think that just that is every parents wish for their child (ren )! You don't birth a child to this world and wants the child to become a narcissist but sometimes it turn out like that. It's devastating and painful. I'm the mother to such a child and he was a nice lovley child he had a lot of ruff experiences but he chosed the wrong fork in the road and became like my dad who are a narcissist and yes my mother was one too to the day she died. My mother and father got divorced when I was 4 years old. My dad never cared about me only his own interest and do so to this day. I don't know my father on the deep but he has been abusive and violent to people around him his whole life! Like my son is too now! I have to love my son from a distance for my own health and wellbeing,. Tomorrow July 22nd he will turn 36 years old and I can't describe the pain I feel and how horrible worthless I also feel as his parent! I know that a ruff childhood aren't a good enough excuse or reasons to turn out to be a narcissist but it happens! I was a good parent or the best I could be and still this happened.. I loved my son and I wanted him to have a better childhood than I had myself. Love and strengt to you all, Susanne.
Having a difficult childhood is never an excuse to mistreat, manipulate, exploit, and abuse others, never. Thank you for this super important video Dr. Ramani. We can feel empathy for them at the same time recognizing as you say that abuse is abuse, and that bad behavioir is unacceptable and detrimental for the wellbeing of those interacting with the toxic person. Thanks again👏❤
Yup. For years I excused the behavior from the narcissist my life because he’d had horrible parents. However, I came to realize that this gave him no right at all to be the way he was to me, his daughter. Whenever I’d be upset at anything he had done, he’d flip it back and say how horrid his parents were, and at least I didn’t have it that bad. He’d say “At least I never hit you.” (Low bar…) I finally used up all my compassion for him and his shitty childhood and only since last October did I finally say screw this, I’m out. Enabler mother sadly cannot see things at all from my perspective. The whole situation is very, very sad. None of us wins.
It’s sad that you have no caring, loving parent and the only way to save yourself is to go NC......that’s the closest to a win that we have, in order to protect ourselves.🦋
@@abowling5759 I truly felt that I had no other option, after years of explaining myself, cajoling, justifying, trying to do everything right… my heart is broken because I know that they love me, but it seems that their love is not strong enough to make it that they will try to change their ways, to meet in middle, etc. it truly sucks… I hate feeling powerless. Although I felt powerless before NC, this is just different. No one wins, I guess, but I do feel free(er). I think I’ll always have this ache, and when they pass away, it is going to be very difficult.
@@Leafygreen123 I can understand. It is difficult to cope with loving them and doing the right thing by yourself. Please remember what happened is not your fault. You deserved kind, caring parents and you owe them nothing. You owe it to yourself to not be their punching bag anymore. To be a person who respects themselves and stands up for what is right is a great example to the world. Healing is often a tougher journey rather than making excuses. Good luck.
@@abowling5759 Your words about healing are powerful and true. Thank you for taking the time to comment regarding this. I truly appreciate your thoughtfulness.
Ugh one of the things that's worse than a narc is their in denial of their ridiculous behavior narc enabler friend and/or spouse. Narc enablers will ALWAYS defend narcs and their behavior no matter how awful 🤢🙄
@@AndrewLewisHowe - Well said. Some narcissists have their enablers so ensnared with children, debt, isolation, etc. that when the enabler reaches their ‘defining point’ they are trapped.
Great video. My spouse and I both had a difficult childhood. We approach it totally different though. He uses his as an excuse for his behavior and I view mine as never wanting anyone to feel the way i felt during my childhood.
I was emotionally abused by a narcissistic friend, and in the end I was relieved when they fell out with me for good, a person's difficult childhood isn't reason to put up with being treated badly by them, personal survival is important too.
I grew up in an abusive home. One of the points I bemoaned to my therapist is that while none of what happened - was done - to me was my fault, it is all now 100% my responsibility to do the work to deal with it. That is true also of the narcissist. None of what was done to them in their childhood was their fault. But, what they do with it now remains their responsibility.
I got the alert for this video while I was checking my other social media, and my god it was a gut punch. My mother used to say this in defense of my father, and still would if I talked to her, in perpetuity. I even asked her “how is that my fault” when I was a child and she slapped me.
I am so sorry this happened to you! This used to happen to me too when as a child I would successfully challenge what they said. It usually meant they ran out of lame excuses and decided to get physical to validate their sense of “superiority “ over me. No child deserves this.......
My doctor told me talking about narcissistic abuse would help, but I couldn’t put it in a word, sentence, paragraph or pages. It was like a climbing a huge mountain that you never prepared for, the worst memory was being hit with pretty much all the kitchen items brooms, mop etc. No child deserves such parents.
I was the youngest child in a family with three firstborns - My mom was a firstborn, my dad was a firstborn, and my older sister was a firstborn. I believe they are all narcissists. The thing that makes my situation particularly tricky is that my family members are all highly educated, and so while they convey many of the messages described in these videos, they are very skilled at doing so subtly, and in more "socially acceptable" ways than some people. This makes it all the more confusing.
I spent 18 years saying "but" instead of "and" to excuse my narcissist ex husband's behavior. His young bi-polar mother committed suicide when he was 15, he was the one who found her, so I always told myself that I needed to be patient, kind, and loving with him. Yet my young Father suddenly dropped dead on Thanksgiving morning when I was 15, and two weeks before I had my goals of a ballet career crushed when I dislocated my knee and was in a cast, my Mother became a mean depressed agoraphobic, but I never took my pain out on anyone else!
@ Mary Goodson. I had a similar revelation like you “……but I never took my pain out on anyone else”. That logic never occurred to me until I was in my 60’s and the narcissist had died. I don’t know WHY it took me so long to understand that. I hope you are younger. You’re definitely wiser.
Yeah, my mother’s mother was a narcissist too. She uses that as an excuse for her dysfunction. It’s like, “Bitch, my mother was a narcissist too and I’m not using it as an excuse to hurt people like you have.”
I actually had a Narc say to me, "what's the fun in life if we can't treat our children like our parents treated us." She grew up a very neglected child in a violent household. 😣
Agreed that the narcs have had difficult early life experiences. The thing is they use it as a source for manipulating others to bear with their abuse. I got a glimpse at how they were actually prepping up the flying monkey to come after me. The part where they took some painful past incidents that happened to the flying monkey and were saying, “remember how much you had to go through and how unfair life has been to you. Why should this person (me) have it better?”. I was shocked at how they twist and instigate people. That’s what they do with their own past pain.
My wife's youngest sister, who is a flying monkey to the core, has simultaneously claimed there was no abuse, and also that she was abused more than my wife and has forgiven them so my wife has to too. The contradiction doesn't matter; only the result of making my wife come back under their mom's control.
if you've been staying single out of concern for others, and not wanting to replay the icky shit you learned as a child, doesn't that show that you have positive qualities too? (empathy for other people's feelings, capacity for self restraint, willingness and ability to think about how your behavior might affect others.) i believe we arent doomed to fail in relationships. if you break a leg you get it set, right? you heal it. if you get twisted emotionally in childhood by the sick behaviors of parents, etc, why let them win as an adult? so maybe we're clumsy or slow. we can still learn. we can build on the good stuff we managed to hang on to. we can try to find people to "model" healthy relationship behavior that we can learn to do. we can find professionals like Dr. Ramani to learn from. i mean, your're already here learning! maybe by working with a professional therapist one on one, you/we can get the deep retraining and learn the ways of thinking/feeling/relating to our own selves and others to start having healthier personal relationships? ones that feel good and are good for us and our partners?? what if....there's someone out there looking for a relationship with a partner who is willing to work to be a better human being and partner than what they were taught as a child? i mean, what if we are more than just damaged goods, that someone special will see and value us for exactly who we are? just sayin...your capacity to love responsibly is greater than the shit you inherited by being treated badly growing up.
i dont know how iam so scared to lawyer up because i dont want to ruin my relationship to his family they’re very nice people and helped me so much in the past. but he treated me so badly and he didnt want to give me alimony and took away all my jewellery and left me with nothing
@@rijay3338 Because they’re nice people and helped you doesn’t mean you should let him walk all over you and take away your rights. He is the one who needs to face consequences for his actions. You have no control over how his family is going to take it, and your actions are against him, not them. It’s not like you didn’t give him a chance to do the right thing. If he is not stopped by legal means, he’s going to do it again and again, until you show him who’s boss.
Ridiculous! I told mine who constantly puts me under pressure to make him happy to get over it, that's too tall an order for anyone to fill, that he stalled marriage until he was 39 in a quest to stay happy as long as possible, I point out marriage and kids were completely his ideas!
My grandmother spoiled her favorite son with the pretty curly hair. She made him believe he was better than anyone else and he became the worst nightmare for every woman he ever encountered.
It does appear, based on several observations, that spoiling and overindulging a child can result in the same kind of insecure monster as depriving and abusing a child. Go figure.
Some of this info is bringing tears to my eyes, as I just am beginning to realize that my 26-year marriage is indeed a narcissistic relationship. Thank you for all that you do, Dr. Ramani!
I'm not in a "lot on their plate" situation now but have been. My thoughts were that I have a lot on my plate being shat on by that person but you don't see me flinging their poo at other people. "I have a lot of poo on me. Take it and like it!😡" I mean gee, wouldn't it be grand if I can just have the sht rolls downhill mentality like you guys, I'd wonder. But honestly I think a lot of those people think you're the sucker if you don't put it off on someone else. My mom blamed me for not having kids to put my shit on them instead of unfairly back UP hill on her. She literally said I should have had my own kids if I wanted to work out my anger on someone. Kid you not. You're so right.
My answer was that at some point, we find other ways to cope, and she's had years since I've met her. I listed a few that I use. The enabler had no answer.
Ok, you e chosen to endure that abuse by continuing on in that toxic relationship. You, then are NOT the victim, you have chosen abuse. I pray to God above you are not dragging your children through this because, unlike you, they have no choice.
At the end of my mom's life, I noticed she really talked about how bad she had it. 1) I would feel sorry enough to help her in her final decline. 2) this was the only life review she was capable of 3) In her mind,.she didnt owe me an amends for anything.
Thank you for reminding that we mess up sometimes. I have one family member that I feel guilty for having little patience with. I'll share something simple in a facebook post and they comment nasty things for seemingly no reason. I posted just trying to Give something away that I though someone might be able to use. They felt it necessary to belittle me and basically tell me to fix it myself or throw it away. I posted on my personal page so I could avoid people like that in the Marketplace. I asserted myself/ my boundary and asked why he would do that to me when he expressed that he hates when people do it to him. I ended up looking like I was harsh and mean for no reason, while they pleaded for forgiveness as if I had abused them. I felt bad. Then I realized I had just been gaslit.
My ex husbands mother was a war child she was traumatisied and unable to emotionaly conect with her children, his father was a kid when he was almost send to war. He had all the trads of toxic masculinity. I was raised a christian to always forgive and hold out the other cheek. I am an atheist now. Enabling is a cultural thing.
I'm still bewildered by how people with similar childhoods can have such divergent outcomes. One person with real raw almost excessive empathy and the other having none. One using their hardship and pain to be more compassionate, insightful, altruistic and understanding, the other using it as an excuse to be the exact opposite. It makes you go WTF?
My Ex totally played with my heart strings with his childhood stories.. That was the reason I let him get away with all the B.S. for so long… I definitely enabled his behavior…
I’ve been dealing with this with my roommate recently. He has a lot of narcissistic friends and he’s a big time enabler. He has a friend who said something really gross and unwarranted about me when I wasn’t around and I tried to explain to him why what he said isn’t funny and he got defensive of him and said “we’ll I don’t judge people” 🤔
Doctor ramani, can you do a video on "why is it so difficult to get your confidence back after leaving a narc relationship" and "why noone seems to understand the deep pain the narc puts you through" explaining why ppl think this is just a regular breakup and we're expected to just bounce back. why dont ppl understand the depth of the torment the narc causes? it is infuriating when ppl tell you generic things to heal yourself after the relationship. ex: get a mani/pedi, treat your self for self care and self healing. these seem so superficial to me after the narc abuse. why do ppl refuse to listen to you explain PTSD. absolutely refuse. they don't understand, and they dont' want to understand. you can explain any way, but they simply reject your words.
I don't think I'll ever "get over" the abuse. With time and understanding, it gets easier to live with. It helps to have a support group, those who have experienced it.
Here's what I think. We shouldn't speak a personal word to someone until we know for a fact that they are empathic. If we know they don't have it in them to give a fuck, then we shouldn't expect to ever get too deep with them. How to suss out who is empathic and who isn't is the true skill we need.
I'll get that alot as well. They tend to get righteous on me w/their logic & couldn't be further from the truth. I've come to the realization that in order for them to comprehend & absorb what I'm describing, they need to be 1 of 3 things or a combo of them. 1) Psychologist, Psychiatrist, or Psychotherapist 2) a burning curiosity/desire to learn w/an extreme open mind 3) currently in a narc relationship or a survivor. If they're not 1 of those 3, they'll never, ever comprehend, appreciate, relate or even believe what your saying. They can't believe that adults would/could ever behave that way. They are delusional. So, they give what I call a "knee jerk" easy solution. "Just get your nails done.. that'll fix the years of abuse. Now let's eat." Many of my coworkers to include myself ended up in the E.R. w/different physical reasons due to my narc G.M. For me, it was 5 kidney stones in a 6 week period. The doctor was scratching his head as he couldn't pinpoint why, as my uric acid levels were normal. Everyone in the waiting room kept saying..."you don't drink enough water..everyone knows that." I said I drink lots of water, daily. "Well, however much you drink is clearly not enough." Yet, my doctor said I'm drinking plenty of water, so, we'll rule that out." My coworker broke out w/severe rashes on both arms. Once again, his TEAM of doctors couldn't diagnose him. He told me he & his wife went out for dinner w/some friends & told him "obviously, you fell down & rolled around some poison ivy bushes. "Just dabble some itch relief on it. It'll be gone by tomorrow." He laughed & sarcastically said "maybe I should dunk my head in the toilet..just to make sure.
Yes please!!! Dr. ramani.. It would be lovely if u could talk in length about confidence building and maintaining our self-esteem while in a narcissistic relationship and afterwards.. Whether we can go after our dreams despite feeling like a failure... Getting over ptsd...
Enabler: but, your narc mother had a difficult childhood... Me: Yeah, so did I and SHE caused it. The worst thing is, I have not just had this argument with general laypersons, I had to have it with my ex-therapist... emphasis on the EX. UGH!
I totally agree with you, a rotten childhood explains their abusive behavior but does not justify it. As you well said some people become narcissists and others highly empathic.. Thanks for this video. Many blessings and looking forward to your workshop. ❤️
I'm glad you clarified that not everyone who has a horrible childhood grows into a narcissist. One of my friends had a childhood of sexual abuse and physical abuse but is one of the most empathetic people I know. Her childhood was so bad that she developed MPD. Fortunately, this loving woman is married to a psychologist and has two understanding adult children. She is still in therapy (not with her husband) and has many physical problems, one of which is Parkinson's disease. She strives valiantly to take care of herself physically, mentally, and emotionally. It is a real gift to know her.
From personal experience: it takes many many times of exploding before I saw the choice to not react... it is not a one time thing... people and life will push your buttons so bad . It feels like getting pummeled and drowning... But then I realised.. when someone hits me and I hit back.. I am completely powerless. My anger is not cooking pot.. its my own voice and it's a no.. honouring that is different than keep fighting. And the power that came from this change is blowing my mind over and over.. its like not reacting or giving things time.. giving up the control.. opens a million doors... But Lord only knows what it took me to get here.. and what challenges still wait.. in a way I feel like I just started all over and am only now finding healthy relationships.. that will take time too I guess.. Ty for another good video.. ❤
When a lady I know was asked why she became a humanitarian, she answered that it’s because she was sexually abused and unheard as a child. She wants to help others heal and feel the validation she never got.
“Do not plot harm against your neighbor, who lives trustfully near you. The wise inherit honor, but fools get only shame.” Proverbs 3: 29, 35 NIV
I admit, narcissists trigger me. The "back in my day!" narcissism knows no calendar. That type of narcissism is also "Today is harder for us unlike how you had it in the golden old days!" 😰 Flashbacks of a world of mostly enablers and legal violence. The golden older days? So the older narcissist had to walk to school backwards therefore I should "shut up!" And today housing is expensive so I should "shut up!" It's so exhausting. 😓
Dr. RAMINI ..after 2 horrific narcissistic abusive relationships .. one was a marriage of 15 years another a relationship of 4 years .. I think I can say .. these individuals regardless of their tough childhood which I also endured as a child .. I chose to be empathetic .. and after their abusive ways I went into self healing looking inwardly within my self to treat those childhood wounds .. by self love and understanding boundaries and being authentic to my inner being in regards to my virtues , values , and core character traits .. these narcissist enjoy inflicting pain like bullies in the 7th grade .. they know the trickery , mind games , blame shifting , betrayal , discard . At this point with my ex he just does not matter .. I am working now on healing myself .. no excuses .. LOVE THE WORD “AND” instead of “BUT “ it is less enabling .. we are not here to fix people ! I am on my new journey and pray for victims of narcissistic abuse to stop “ BLAMING “ themselves “ get out and stay out .. no contact .. your sanity is everything. Peace love and harmony
I agree. I think most people can look back and pick out things from their childhood that could be considered traumatic. It doesn’t give anyone an excuse to be abusive.
I'm a psychoherapist in Greece. Your videos have played a valuable part in helping the clients who survived narcissistic relationships make sense of what happened and move on. Thank you for the great work.
Sadly, this is something my therapist told me for years 😕 how much do I need to understand that my parents were hurting and how I should forgive them because they were totally unaware of their behavior... ugh!! I dumped her and now I'm taking therapy with other person, hope it goes differently this time. How could I forgive people that is not doing anything to gaining that forgiveness? I mean, I'm not looking for revenge or keeping enraged, but their behavior is something I can't stand anymore. Thanks dr. Ramani, you're a savior!!
So relieving to hear. This is the response I get whenever I bring up my father’s narcissism. Parents expect you as children to change at their whim but they wont work on their own needed change.
Thank you for sharing this video. I find your videos to be so insightful and helps me understand a world that day by day feels more overwhelming and at times needlessly toxic.
I’m so grateful for all your videos. That’s how my nex trapped me by telling his sob story of his difficult violent childhood. Fast forward, 20 years of being in his life and protecting him and going through his abuse, I now understand what a covert narc he is.
A lot of us had childhood difficulties and act decent for the most part. When you realize what they were doing the whole time the anger, processing it all, educating yourself and healing sets in.
My favourite? “Try not to remember the last few years, try to remember BEFORE that!” Seriously?! I’ll remember her for EXACTLY what living closer to her opened up my eyes to see!
Thank you Dr. Ramani for sharing from your deep well of knowledge, understanding, and experience. Your insight and truth-telling have helped SO much with my personal healing from abuse by a covert narcissist.
Yes, this is exactly what I have experienced, the whole childhood drama excuse for bad behavior! Thank you for this video! I am trying not to be such an enabler and work on my own issues! Your videos have been VERY helpful!
I am so so pleased you did this specific video. After watching all of your videos on this subject, I now understanding, so clearly, what happened in my relationship. The difficult childhood, the affairs the father had, the "You don't talk about your feelings" the selfishness of the parents only interested in themselves, the abandonment by the parents and so on and so on. The way he idolises the father now, yet in the same breath will say how he was treat as a child, as if that is an excuse for the way he has turned out. Honestly, I could not have a more perfect example of everything you have described. Like father like son is so true, an affair that he kept returning too, the lies, the false promises, the future faking, the gas lighting and inability to talk about how he felt or why he behaved the way he did. The list is endless. I still struggle with the knowledge of what he must have gone through as a child and that a lot of his behaviour is probably unconscious and a protection mechanism for his insecurities, but you are so right, there is still a choice to at least try to get help. It's NOT OK to project their pain onto someone they are "Supposed" to love, who has done nothing to them to deserve being treated like this. They do have a choice, because they do know they are hurting someone. Even if they can't feel empathy, they can see with their own eye's, the pain they are causing someone, because they are not stupid. Thank you so much Dr Ramani for all the work you do. It helps so many people navigate and make sense of what is such a confusing place to be in. xxx
This! A thousand times. Based on his stories, my narc learned that approval from his dad was earned with blood, sweat and tears...and then the goalpost was moved so it was never good enough. He was denied basic childhood joys of playing with friends because his dad would suddenly invent some task that absolutely had to be done. Fast forward to today where he has that same work ethic that was beat into him, but is repeating the cycle of expecting the same from everyone else. How dare I put off this random task that he suddenly decides has to be done right now because I had already planned to visit with family that day, or need to work overtime during a busy season, or make the mistake of deciding to tackle a different item on the to-do list that he didn't deem the most important at that moment. Rinse. Repeat.
I spent my last therapy appointment debating this exact thing with my therapist about one of my abusers. It’s not the first time we’ve had the conversation. Even listening to this, my brain has a hard time processing it. I’ve bookmarked this to replay as needed, especially from around 11:30 to 13:20. It might make my therapist’s life easier. Thank you for all the hard work you put into your videos. The information is appreciated.
your videos have saved many lives. thank you for being gracious enough to make these for us. i’ve watched you for several years, and am convinced i will never not learn and grow from you. you’re my hero.
I was about to say Racial Acceptance work when you mentioned the 'and" instead of 'but' b/c you need to use radical acceptance with the 'and' so you don't continue getting hurt. We can empathize because they were raised in a horrid way, yet that doesn't mean it comes at the cost of our own harm. As adults, we have more freedom than when we were children and had no choice in order to survive. It isn't easy to distance or not wish they would hear us or have the empathy we can give them to us, yet once again we just have to keep working the radical acceptance lesson to help us and help us each time those feelings come up so we don't self-harm or collapse.
I tend to isolate because it makes me feel safe. If I'm alone, no one can hurt me. I have not yet learned how to not allow these people to get inside my head.
Dr. Ramani, this was such a brilliant video. In my case, I lived this, and then I was thrown into the world to try and assimilate. In the relationship department, I was completely worthless- professional, choosing bad friends, etc. I worried about paying bills and things like that, and making art, but my ability to communicate with people in the real world was lacking. It is not an excuse, but it is difficult for a person to assimilate and cover basic survival skills while also getting therapy. I did seek therapy many times but it was horrible, and they did not go into detail about any of these things. Thank you for all you do.
Wow! Thanks so much! You sounded like my mom and dad giving their childhood stories of horror, BUT those traumatic stories are not a license to abuse me!
I am a rescuer. This sad story of my ex Narc's childhood is what made me stay. Pity instead of love. And that flip is seriously mind boggling to the abused. All you're saying is very true I experienced it 💯
@ Dr. Ramani and community… Everyday I work on me, RUclips helps me. When I could not have or get access to adequate mental health services in my area, I found your channel and bought your book. Intuitively I knew what narcissism was growing up, but I did not have a proper label for it. I appreciate your channel. Thanks.🤔❤️
Thank you, Dr. Ramini, thank you, thank you ❤️! My childhood was VERY traumatic, but I become codependent instead of narcissistic. As I have come to terms with the abuse I endured, I have heard more than one family member excuse the abuser's behavior by reminding me how difficult their childhood was. As someone who became an unbalanced giver, I find this infuriating. So thank you speaking up!
I've started a therapy and realised I had alot of narcissicistic behavior and am working hard every day to fix my behavior. Yes I have made all excuses imaginable, but the more I take responsability for my own behavior and the way it affects people around me the more I realise that I was never gonna be happy living my life the way I was. facing my inner conflict is the hardest most difficult task I've ever tackled but I am grateful I am doing it because I can see the positiv change around me happeneing as I developpe more awarness.. thanks for your insight even if it feels hard to listen to your video they are helping and I'm grateful for them and for your work !
this material so resonates with me. i had to leave a relationship with my boyfriend, because i was finding his enabling of his teenage narcisstic drug dealing son who lived with us. i wouldnt have ever believed that my sane and rational boyfrd would spend so much time defending his son and telling me that i was too sensitive. i felt such shame then. it was heartbreaking. seeing his son treat his dad with such contempt and disrespect sickened me. his unwillingness to see the damage he was doing caused me to have no other choice than to leave. thanks dr ramani!
Damn. Your observant understanding of human behavior is amazing. Thanks for going there once again. I love ❤️ your generous giving of yourself here to help us all so much!
It may not be our fault whatsoever in terms of the trauma or harm that was done to us in life. The flip side of that coin is that it is our sole responsibility to manage ourselves in terms of healing, recovery and moving on in a healing manner. You're responsible for your life, your soul, emotions, health, behavior and outcomes. No matter who does us wrong, it's up to us how we respond, cope and heal. It's always, always, always up to us. There is no deferral of responsibility of self. God bless you all.
Arguably one of your most profound videos to date! 🏆 This is such a great message for EVERYONE to hear and you lay it out so beautifully flat 💛 Well done and thank you again and again Dr. Ramani 🤗
Sometimes parents raise us to be this way because they enable their partner who may be a narcissist. Anytime the narcissist parent does wrong they'll tell you, "they didn't mean it that way. It's just how they were taught to communicate." So some of us grew up that way, when a narcissist walks into our life we replicate the behaviour of our enabler parent. Let's raise our kids to stand their ground in a healthy way. Teach them to be confident in themselves and love themselves. 💪🏽
You can't be blaming your difficult childhood for your behavior when you're 70!
I would make an exception. If you are working through your problems trying to heal through understanding your childhood.
I am trying to work through my issues and have developed anger. And the only people I put that on are the parent narcs. Not even my ex husband narc (whom I hold no grudges for anymore and I wish him well).
But the 70 yr old mom my entire life has yelled at me my age as a reason for me to shut up. "You're 10 yrs old, grow up!" Add a decade each time.
So I went a long time not working out my issues because "I'm too old...."
Oh good example. When Woodstock came back in the 90s I remember watching the "kids have fun" on MTV. Years later I realized I was only 22yrs old thinking I was too old to go myself. Lol tragic. But that's what I mean.
So I would submit that age isn't a factor if you're finger pointing at the right people (not innocent victims) because you're trying to work out the spaghetti mess of wires that is the problem. As long as you're not just relying on your childhood to KEEP doing your behaviors that affect innocent 3rd parties.
Thanks for hearing me out. Just that children of abuse tend to internalize things the wrong way and put off working things out.
LOL! I do! That’s why I continue to work and work on myself.
Unless, you're my narcissistic sister :-/. Just turned 70 and her childhood victimization is as fresh as if it had happened to her last week! She forgot nothing and beats everyone over the head with it!
Actually, when narcs reach a certain age, the excuse enablers come up with is 'You can' t change him at his age. Just cope with it: he /she is old.. '.
my sibling still blame shifting &&& lying and sniveling - a real Drama Queen- he upstages EVERY birthday, wrecks weddings & makes spectacle in Funeral.
Remember everyone: you are not a pack animal. Don't bear the burden of carrying other people's baggage up the mountain for them.
My narcissistic relatives get po’d when I tell them I’m not a herd person. 😬
Pack animal! Brilliant analogy. That's definitely what is felt like, but unlike a donkey, who knows when it's dangerous to keep going, and refuses to go any further, we humans keep on going until our back breaks.
Thank you for this. This is an image I will keep in mind for when I need it.
Technically humans were pack animals, we've been trained out of our nature
There are two interpretations for “pack animals.” The first is animals living in packs (wolves). The others is animals that carry or pack loads on a leash (mules). The OP was referring to the latter I believe.
There is NO EXCUSE. Some of us had really crappy childhoods. Didn't make all of US grow up continuing to abuse others.
It made alot of us empaths with super sonic hearing (fee fi foe fum...) and other super hero powers!
Enablers have been manipulated by the narcissist. The narcissist has played the victim role around them. So they will try to justify the narcissist’s actions.
The narcissist is the conductor and the enablers are the choir that sings along in perfect time and tune to the conductor and his/her baton.
Are the enablers whoever are manipulated by them then? So in my case my ex family??
@@francescaspencer1700 Absolutely.
@@raccuia1 I did justify his actions but I don't anymore as I see its all pretending he will try and manipulate everyone around him if he could... As he doesn't want anyone to see the true person who he really is... He wants to be the good guy but in fact he's the one whose caused all the chaos and pain 😂
@@AndrewLewisHoweit's about learning about the behaviours and choosing the either carry on with them or to change them if u want too.
A lot of us has had a rough childhood, it's know excuse to be a toxic narcissist. 👍 Up DR RAMANI and survivors and thrivers 🙏.
There's a Kids in the Hall bit where the recurring horrible creep character Cabbagehead is trying to get a woman to sleep with her, and when being a lecherous creep doesn't work he fake-cries and goes "I had a bad childhood!", trying to get her to sleep with him out of pity. She replies snidely "So did I; that's how childhoods work."
That response always makes me laugh, and it's my go-to mental response whenever a narcissist starts using their trauma as an excuse to traumatize others. Obviously not EVERYONE has a bad childhood, but many, many people have, and as the Doc says, not all of them turn bad themselves.
My aunt and mom had the same childhoods. My aunt went to heaven and my mom's still alive but it's in a living hell!
@@mitchh3092 🐔 Chicken lady! These guys won't know those skits, they're ancient CBC stuff!
Well said! 👏👏👏
Ram, why isn't this being taught in schools? Would save countless lives. And I giggle every time she plays the role of the "Narc"! Keep teaching us...we need you!
They create them in the schools. Participation awards and entitlement..
Many narcs are in leadership positions in schools for their narcissistic supply.
@@m998hmmwv7 those participation trophies are for the parents not the kids. Kids don't gaf. And the only person I've ever known to publicly hate on participation trophies is actually a malignant narcissist. Narcissists are made by their parents, not some little ribbon.
@@nicbro3831 Anyone with some remote form of honor and dignity would hate on a participation trophy.
Edit: I'll reiterate, they wouldn't accept a participation trophy.
Dr Ramani, please update us, curriculum on the way with time. Mental health awareness is improving thru the channels and resources at youtube, thank you. The community and comments here almost word for word what I was thinking or going thru. The last five years can't happen again. But because they did we finally have a way to cope, understand, educate myself, seek help, regulation and alignment follow. Channels here never leave us stuck. Education heals so much.
I was codependent. Diagnosed. I learned through years of therapy and spirituality that I had to be the one to love and heal myself. When I learned I was responsible for my healing, I realized they were too. I think that was a pivotal point for me. I learned to have boundaries and not make excuses. The people who hurt you will never be the ones to heal you. It’s your responsibility to heal yourself.
Congratulations 🎊, aren't you wonderful and in doing so you are far from selfish! Doesn't this show us that we all must help ourselves (aka any narcs listening?) Mine forced me 🤰🤰🤳 once married and now I say "If you don't like (karma) your life you can thank that on having forced an unwanted one on someone (me) else prior!
Amen!
Beautiful!! That's it. 🙌
@@joseenoel8093 Well... aren't you wonderful with your sour grapes.
@@cymbolichuman433 ?
People with empathy can also come from abusive childhoods. Get in line with the pity party, narcissists
“The pain is real, but it’s not an excuse” 💯💯💯💯💯
Yeah well thanks to the narc, I had a difficult childhood too. I handle my issues, and don't use it as an excuse to abuse others. My goal is to leave the world a better place, not perpetuate the hell that was inflicted on me.
Exactly... 🙂👍
Let's "teach our children well" and hopefully make the world a little better.
@@marieborchardt2910 I think that just that is every parents wish for their child (ren )! You don't birth a child to this world and wants the child to become a narcissist but sometimes it turn out like that. It's devastating and painful. I'm the mother to such a child and he was a nice lovley child he had a lot of ruff experiences but he chosed the wrong fork in the road and became like my dad who are a narcissist and yes my mother was one too to the day she died. My mother and father got divorced when I was 4 years old. My dad never cared about me only his own interest and do so to this day. I don't know my father on the deep but he has been abusive and violent to people around him his whole life! Like my son is too now! I have to love my son from a distance for my own health and wellbeing,. Tomorrow July 22nd he will turn 36 years old and I can't describe the pain I feel and how horrible worthless I also feel as his parent! I know that a ruff childhood aren't a good enough excuse or reasons to turn out to be a narcissist but it happens! I was a good parent or the best I could be and still this happened.. I loved my son and I wanted him to have a better childhood than I had myself. Love and strengt to you all, Susanne.
PREACH
Good for you 😇
Having a difficult childhood is never an excuse to mistreat, manipulate, exploit, and abuse others, never. Thank you for this super important video Dr. Ramani. We can feel empathy for them at the same time recognizing as you say that abuse is abuse, and that bad behavioir is unacceptable and detrimental for the wellbeing of those interacting with the toxic person.
Thanks again👏❤
💯
Yup. For years I excused the behavior from the narcissist my life because he’d had horrible parents. However, I came to realize that this gave him no right at all to be the way he was to me, his daughter. Whenever I’d be upset at anything he had done, he’d flip it back and say how horrid his parents were, and at least I didn’t have it that bad. He’d say “At least I never hit you.” (Low bar…) I finally used up all my compassion for him and his shitty childhood and only since last October did I finally say screw this, I’m out. Enabler mother sadly cannot see things at all from my perspective. The whole situation is very, very sad. None of us wins.
It’s sad that you have no caring, loving parent and the only way to save yourself is to go NC......that’s the closest to a win that we have, in order to protect ourselves.🦋
@@abowling5759 I truly felt that I had no other option, after years of explaining myself, cajoling, justifying, trying to do everything right… my heart is broken because I know that they love me, but it seems that their love is not strong enough to make it that they will try to change their ways, to meet in middle, etc. it truly sucks… I hate feeling powerless. Although I felt powerless before NC, this is just different. No one wins, I guess, but I do feel free(er). I think I’ll always have this ache, and when they pass away, it is going to be very difficult.
@@Leafygreen123 I can understand. It is difficult to cope with loving them and doing the right thing by yourself.
Please remember what happened is not your fault. You deserved kind, caring parents and you owe them nothing. You owe it to yourself to not be their punching bag anymore. To be a person who respects themselves and stands up for what is right is a great example to the world.
Healing is often a tougher journey rather than making excuses. Good luck.
@@abowling5759 Your words about healing are powerful and true. Thank you for taking the time to comment regarding this. I truly appreciate your thoughtfulness.
@@Leafygreen123 you’re very welcome!💙
Ugh one of the things that's worse than a narc is their in denial of their ridiculous behavior narc enabler friend and/or spouse. Narc enablers will ALWAYS defend narcs and their behavior no matter how awful 🤢🙄
Absolutely Cren
The enabling spouse is their favorite puppet!
Beyond saving, lost causes
@@AndrewLewisHowe Why take gruff in the first place, Andrew?
@@AndrewLewisHowe - Well said. Some narcissists have their enablers so ensnared with children, debt, isolation, etc. that when the enabler reaches their ‘defining point’ they are trapped.
Great video. My spouse and I both had a difficult childhood. We approach it totally different though. He uses his as an excuse for his behavior and I view mine as never wanting anyone to feel the way i felt during my childhood.
Same girl! Same 💕
(But I divorced his ass 😉)
@@samanthawinchester2994 Congrats on your divorce! I hope you're happier now.
I know a ton of people who had really bad childhoods, including sexual abuse who are not narcissistic. Don't blame a bad character on a bad childhood.
Well said🙌
".....parents viewed children as an accessory......"
Deep sobbing! This. Totally this.
We’re supposed to just take what they dish out....
"Abuse is abuse, regardless of the backstory." This is the takeaway I needed from this video. Thanks, Dr. Ramani!
This is why I never wanted children. I never wanted to repeat this same jacked up behavior. I spent my childless years in recovery.
I know the feeling.
You're a very responsible person. My respect
High five. Me, too.
I was emotionally abused by a narcissistic friend, and in the end I was relieved when they fell out with me for good, a person's difficult childhood isn't reason to put up with being treated badly by them, personal survival is important too.
I grew up in an abusive home. One of the points I bemoaned to my therapist is that while none of what happened - was done - to me was my fault, it is all now 100% my responsibility to do the work to deal with it.
That is true also of the narcissist. None of what was done to them in their childhood was their fault. But, what they do with it now remains their responsibility.
Absolutely!
I got the alert for this video while I was checking my other social media, and my god it was a gut punch. My mother used to say this in defense of my father, and still would if I talked to her, in perpetuity. I even asked her “how is that my fault” when I was a child and she slapped me.
Good grief...
I am so sorry this happened to you!
This used to happen to me too when as a child I would successfully challenge what they said. It usually meant they ran out of lame excuses and decided to get physical to validate their sense of “superiority “ over me. No child deserves this.......
My doctor told me talking about narcissistic abuse would help, but I couldn’t put it in a word, sentence, paragraph or pages. It was like a climbing a huge mountain that you never prepared for, the worst memory was being hit with pretty much all the kitchen items brooms, mop etc. No child deserves such parents.
I was the youngest child in a family with three firstborns - My mom was a firstborn, my dad was a firstborn, and my older sister was a firstborn. I believe they are all narcissists. The thing that makes my situation particularly tricky is that my family members are all highly educated, and so while they convey many of the messages described in these videos, they are very skilled at doing so subtly, and in more "socially acceptable" ways than some people. This makes it all the more confusing.
Education often makes toxic people more dangerous and pernicious...
@@LOKI77able I am definitely finding that to be true.
Right there with you. It’s completely crazy-making.
I spent 18 years saying "but" instead of "and" to excuse my narcissist ex husband's behavior. His young bi-polar mother committed suicide when he was 15, he was the one who found her, so I always told myself that I needed to be patient, kind, and loving with him. Yet my young Father suddenly dropped dead on Thanksgiving morning when I was 15, and two weeks before I had my goals of a ballet career crushed when I dislocated my knee and was in a cast, my Mother became a mean depressed agoraphobic, but I never took my pain out on anyone else!
@ Mary Goodson. I had a similar revelation like you “……but I never took my pain out on anyone else”. That logic never occurred to me until I was in my 60’s and the narcissist had died. I don’t know WHY it took me so long to understand that. I hope you are younger. You’re definitely wiser.
If they aren't getting help, then they aren't interested in changing and aren't worth wasting your time with.
Aaaaand what about OUR childhoods? Do they not count for something??
Yeah, my mother’s mother was a narcissist too. She uses that as an excuse for her dysfunction. It’s like, “Bitch, my mother was a narcissist too and I’m not using it as an excuse to hurt people like you have.”
I actually had a Narc say to me, "what's the fun in life if we can't treat our children like our parents treated us." She grew up a very neglected child in a violent household. 😣
@@marieborchardt2910 very sad
Agreed that the narcs have had difficult early life experiences. The thing is they use it as a source for manipulating others to bear with their abuse.
I got a glimpse at how they were actually prepping up the flying monkey to come after me. The part where they took some painful past incidents that happened to the flying monkey and were saying, “remember how much you had to go through and how unfair life has been to you. Why should this person (me) have it better?”.
I was shocked at how they twist and instigate people. That’s what they do with their own past pain.
And the simple answer should have been... because they do not deserve to be treated that way..
It's shocking how devious Narcs are.
My wife's youngest sister, who is a flying monkey to the core, has simultaneously claimed there was no abuse, and also that she was abused more than my wife and has forgiven them so my wife has to too. The contradiction doesn't matter; only the result of making my wife come back under their mom's control.
@@KartarNighthawk no one has a right to demand forgiveness....
@@abowling5759 No kidding. There's a reason we don't talk to her anymore.
This explains why I have stayed single throughout my life rather than hurt the ones I would love, as I know my childhood x
Me too. Self sequestering is a lonely road.
if you've been staying single out of concern for others, and not wanting to replay the icky shit you learned as a child, doesn't that show that you have positive qualities too? (empathy for other people's feelings, capacity for self restraint, willingness and ability to think about how your behavior might affect others.)
i believe we arent doomed to fail in relationships. if you break a leg you get it set, right? you heal it.
if you get twisted emotionally in childhood by the sick behaviors of parents, etc, why let them win as an adult? so maybe we're clumsy or slow. we can still learn.
we can build on the good stuff we managed to hang on to. we can try to find people to "model" healthy relationship behavior that we can learn to do. we can find professionals like Dr. Ramani to learn from. i mean, your're already here learning! maybe by working with a professional therapist one on one, you/we can get the deep retraining and learn the ways of thinking/feeling/relating to our own selves and others to start having healthier personal relationships? ones that feel good and are good for us and our partners??
what if....there's someone out there looking for a relationship with a partner who is willing to work to be a better human being and partner than what they were taught as a child? i mean, what if we are more than just damaged goods, that someone special will see and value us for exactly who we are?
just sayin...your capacity to love responsibly is greater than the shit you inherited by being treated badly growing up.
GET CLOSER TO GOD, HE IS LOVE!......IM CATHOLIC AND JESUSCHRIST HAS SAVED AND TRANSFORMED MY LIFE IN EVERY SINGLE WAY! HE MAKES EVERYTHING NEW 💖
The difference between having Narcissistic traits, and being a narcissist is recognizing the issues are self. I am super mean to myself!
They didn't like it when I lawyered up and reminded them who's boss and won't tolerate all that bullshit!! 🤣😊👌
🙌👏🔥
Great move!⭐️
i dont know how iam so scared to lawyer up because i dont want to ruin my relationship to his family they’re very nice people and helped me so much in the past. but he treated me so badly and he didnt want to give me alimony and took away all my jewellery and left me with nothing
@@rijay3338 Because they’re nice people and helped you doesn’t mean you should let him walk all over you and take away your rights. He is the one who needs to face consequences for his actions.
You have no control over how his family is going to take it, and your actions are against him, not them.
It’s not like you didn’t give him a chance to do the right thing. If he is not stopped by legal means, he’s going to do it again and again, until you show him who’s boss.
@@rijay3338 that's reason enough.. respect and love yourself first
Privilege and childhood entitlement? My ex was raised with both and grew up to be a full-fledged "dyed in the wool" narcissist.....
The narc claimed that his childhood was perfect, it was me, his ex wife, that is to blame for why he isn't greater.
manchild huh
Ridiculous! I told mine who constantly puts me under pressure to make him happy to get over it, that's too tall an order for anyone to fill, that he stalled marriage until he was 39 in a quest to stay happy as long as possible, I point out marriage and kids were completely his ideas!
So true my nard mum.
My grandmother spoiled her favorite son with the pretty curly hair. She made him believe he was better than anyone else and he became the worst nightmare for every woman he ever encountered.
Wow 😳
I bet a lot of mothers are to blame too
@@spiritoftheforest6204 This.
It does appear, based on several observations, that spoiling and overindulging a child can result in the same kind of insecure monster as depriving and abusing a child. Go figure.
Oh, yeah, I’ve seen that happen!
Some of this info is bringing tears to my eyes, as I just am beginning to realize that my 26-year marriage is indeed a narcissistic relationship. Thank you for all that you do, Dr. Ramani!
He abuses us daily, " He is very stressed. He has a lot on his plate ".
I'm not in a "lot on their plate" situation now but have been. My thoughts were that I have a lot on my plate being shat on by that person but you don't see me flinging their poo at other people. "I have a lot of poo on me. Take it and like it!😡" I mean gee, wouldn't it be grand if I can just have the sht rolls downhill mentality like you guys, I'd wonder.
But honestly I think a lot of those people think you're the sucker if you don't put it off on someone else.
My mom blamed me for not having kids to put my shit on them instead of unfairly back UP hill on her.
She literally said I should have had my own kids if I wanted to work out my anger on someone. Kid you not.
You're so right.
My answer was that at some point, we find other ways to cope, and she's had years since I've met her. I listed a few that I use. The enabler had no answer.
Ok, you e chosen to endure that abuse by continuing on in that toxic relationship. You, then are NOT the victim, you have chosen abuse. I pray to God above you are not dragging your children through this because, unlike you, they have no choice.
@@buelan.6525 I don't think anyone in this thread is advocating putting abuse on people. (???)
You don’t choose your parents
There's no excuse for abuse. We all have a choice to make. Narcissists chose to be cruel.
You can totally see the path they took, but you need to be able to separate yourself from that feeling. 💯
At the end of my mom's life, I noticed she really talked about how bad she had it.
1) I would feel sorry enough to help her in her final decline.
2) this was the only life review she was capable of
3) In her mind,.she didnt owe me an amends for anything.
Same. My Nmom was #3.
Thank you for reminding that we mess up sometimes. I have one family member that I feel guilty for having little patience with. I'll share something simple in a facebook post and they comment nasty things for seemingly no reason. I posted just trying to Give something away that I though someone might be able to use. They felt it necessary to belittle me and basically tell me to fix it myself or throw it away. I posted on my personal page so I could avoid people like that in the Marketplace. I asserted myself/ my boundary and asked why he would do that to me when he expressed that he hates when people do it to him. I ended up looking like I was harsh and mean for no reason, while they pleaded for forgiveness as if I had abused them. I felt bad. Then I realized I had just been gaslit.
Oooof that hit home!!! The public image my parents had with other people was picture perfect!
The same could be said for all of us. No excuse.
My ex husbands mother was a war child she was traumatisied and unable to emotionaly conect with her children, his father was a kid when he was almost send to war. He had all the trads of toxic masculinity. I was raised a christian to always forgive and hold out the other cheek. I am an atheist now. Enabling is a cultural thing.
I'm still bewildered by how people with similar childhoods can have such divergent outcomes. One person with real raw almost excessive empathy and the other having none. One using their hardship and pain to be more compassionate, insightful, altruistic and understanding, the other using it as an excuse to be the exact opposite. It makes you go WTF?
My Ex totally played with my heart strings with his childhood stories..
That was the reason I let him get away with all the B.S. for so long…
I definitely enabled his behavior…
I’ve been dealing with this with my roommate recently. He has a lot of narcissistic friends and he’s a big time enabler. He has a friend who said something really gross and unwarranted about me when I wasn’t around and I tried to explain to him why what he said isn’t funny and he got defensive of him and said “we’ll I don’t judge people” 🤔
Wow, you’re amazing, it’s such a relief to hear someone who totally truly gets it, thank you ❤️
Thank You, Thank You, Thank You ❤️
The rage behind closed doors. It never stopped.
Thank you great video.
Doctor ramani, can you do a video on "why is it so difficult to get your confidence back after leaving a narc relationship"
and "why noone seems to understand the deep pain the narc puts you through" explaining why ppl think this is just a regular breakup and we're expected to just bounce back. why dont ppl understand the depth of the torment the narc causes?
it is infuriating when ppl tell you generic things to heal yourself after the relationship.
ex: get a mani/pedi, treat your self for self care and self healing.
these seem so superficial to me after the narc abuse.
why do ppl refuse to listen to you explain PTSD. absolutely refuse.
they don't understand, and they dont' want to understand. you can explain any way, but they simply reject your words.
I don't think I'll ever "get over" the abuse. With time and understanding, it gets easier to live with. It helps to have a support group, those who have experienced it.
Here's what I think. We shouldn't speak a personal word to someone until we know for a fact that they are empathic. If we know they don't have it in them to give a fuck, then we shouldn't expect to ever get too deep with them. How to suss out who is empathic and who isn't is the true skill we need.
I'll get that alot as well. They tend to get righteous on me w/their logic & couldn't be further from the truth. I've come to the realization that in order for them to comprehend & absorb what I'm describing, they need to be 1 of 3 things or a combo of them. 1) Psychologist, Psychiatrist, or Psychotherapist 2) a burning curiosity/desire to learn w/an extreme open mind 3) currently in a narc relationship or a survivor. If they're not 1 of those 3, they'll never, ever comprehend, appreciate, relate or even believe what your saying. They can't believe that adults would/could ever behave that way. They are delusional. So, they give what I call a "knee jerk" easy solution. "Just get your nails done.. that'll fix the years of abuse. Now let's eat."
Many of my coworkers to include myself ended up in the E.R. w/different physical reasons due to my narc G.M. For me, it was 5 kidney stones in a 6 week period. The doctor was scratching his head as he couldn't pinpoint why, as my uric acid levels were normal. Everyone in the waiting room kept saying..."you don't drink enough water..everyone knows that." I said I drink lots of water, daily. "Well, however much you drink is clearly not enough." Yet, my doctor said I'm drinking plenty of water, so, we'll rule that out." My coworker broke out w/severe rashes on both arms. Once again, his TEAM of doctors couldn't diagnose him. He told me he & his wife went out for dinner w/some friends & told him "obviously, you fell down & rolled around some poison ivy bushes. "Just dabble some itch relief on it. It'll be gone by tomorrow." He laughed & sarcastically said "maybe I should dunk my head in the toilet..just to make sure.
Up vote for these ideas👍 It'd be fantastic to see these videos from Dr. Ramani
Yes please!!! Dr. ramani.. It would be lovely if u could talk in length about confidence building and maintaining our self-esteem while in a narcissistic relationship and afterwards.. Whether we can go after our dreams despite feeling like a failure... Getting over ptsd...
Enabler: but, your narc mother had a difficult childhood...
Me: Yeah, so did I and SHE caused it.
The worst thing is, I have not just had this argument with general laypersons, I had to have it with my ex-therapist... emphasis on the EX. UGH!
Seems many therapists are enablers
I totally agree with you, a rotten childhood explains their abusive behavior but does not justify it. As you well said some people become narcissists and others highly empathic.. Thanks for this video. Many blessings and looking forward to your workshop. ❤️
When you use your childhood as an excuse, then you're duplicating your abuser. God bless!
Brilliant. I love the "AND" - replacing "but" with "and" is one of the most healing things I've ever integrated in my own healing and as a therapist.
My parents, a grandiose narcissist mother and enabling father, check every single box.
I'm glad you clarified that not everyone who has a horrible childhood grows into a narcissist. One of my friends had a childhood of sexual abuse and physical abuse but is one of the most empathetic people I know. Her childhood was so bad that she developed MPD. Fortunately, this loving woman is married to a psychologist and has two understanding adult children. She is still in therapy (not with her husband) and has many physical problems, one of which is Parkinson's disease. She strives valiantly to take care of herself physically, mentally, and emotionally. It is a real gift to know her.
From personal experience: it takes many many times of exploding before I saw the choice to not react... it is not a one time thing... people and life will push your buttons so bad . It feels like getting pummeled and drowning...
But then I realised.. when someone hits me and I hit back.. I am completely powerless.
My anger is not cooking pot.. its my own voice and it's a no.. honouring that is different than keep fighting.
And the power that came from this change is blowing my mind over and over.. its like not reacting or giving things time.. giving up the control.. opens a million doors...
But Lord only knows what it took me to get here.. and what challenges still wait.. in a way I feel like I just started all over and am only now finding healthy relationships.. that will take time too I guess..
Ty for another good video.. ❤
When a lady I know was asked why she became a humanitarian, she answered that it’s because she was sexually abused and unheard as a child. She wants to help others heal and feel the validation she never got.
“Do not plot harm against your neighbor, who lives trustfully near you. The wise inherit honor, but fools get only shame.”
Proverbs 3: 29, 35 NIV
"Learning behavioral regulation as an adult is tough, but it's not impossible" "Not only because we can, but because healthy people DO." Thank you.
I admit, narcissists trigger me. The "back in my day!" narcissism knows no calendar. That type of narcissism is also "Today is harder for us unlike how you had it in the golden old days!"
😰
Flashbacks of a world of mostly enablers and legal violence. The golden older days?
So the older narcissist had to walk to school backwards therefore I should "shut up!" And today housing is expensive so I should "shut up!"
It's so exhausting. 😓
Not to mention futile....
Dr. RAMINI ..after 2 horrific narcissistic abusive relationships .. one was a marriage of 15 years another a relationship of 4 years .. I think I can say .. these individuals regardless of their tough childhood which I also endured as a child .. I chose to be empathetic .. and after their abusive ways I went into self healing looking inwardly within my self to treat those childhood wounds .. by self love and understanding boundaries and being authentic to my inner being in regards to my virtues , values , and core character traits .. these narcissist enjoy inflicting pain like bullies in the 7th grade .. they know the trickery , mind games , blame shifting , betrayal , discard . At this point with my ex he just does not matter .. I am working now on healing myself .. no excuses .. LOVE THE WORD “AND” instead of “BUT “ it is less enabling .. we are not here to fix people ! I am on my new journey and pray for victims of narcissistic abuse to stop “ BLAMING “ themselves “ get out and stay out .. no contact .. your sanity is everything. Peace love and harmony
Bilbo Baggins at one time says how he feels like "excess baggage". That really resonated with me.
I think everyone has had a childhood that has challenges, that doesn't make you the adult you are though. Only the choices you make can do that
I agree. I think most people can look back and pick out things from their childhood that could be considered traumatic. It doesn’t give anyone an excuse to be abusive.
I'm a psychoherapist in Greece. Your videos have played a valuable part in helping the clients who survived narcissistic relationships make sense of what happened and move on. Thank you for the great work.
Sadly, this is something my therapist told me for years 😕 how much do I need to understand that my parents were hurting and how I should forgive them because they were totally unaware of their behavior... ugh!! I dumped her and now I'm taking therapy with other person, hope it goes differently this time.
How could I forgive people that is not doing anything to gaining that forgiveness? I mean, I'm not looking for revenge or keeping enraged, but their behavior is something I can't stand anymore.
Thanks dr. Ramani, you're a savior!!
So relieving to hear. This is the response I get whenever I bring up my father’s narcissism. Parents expect you as children to change at their whim but they wont work on their own needed change.
Thank you for sharing this video. I find your videos to be so insightful and helps me understand a world that day by day feels more overwhelming and at times needlessly toxic.
I’m so grateful for all your videos. That’s how my nex trapped me by telling his sob story of his difficult violent childhood. Fast forward, 20 years of being in his life and protecting him and going through his abuse, I now understand what a covert narc he is.
A lot of us had childhood difficulties and act decent for the most part. When you realize what they were doing the whole time the anger, processing it all, educating yourself and healing sets in.
My favourite? “Try not to remember the last few years, try to remember BEFORE that!” Seriously?! I’ll remember her for EXACTLY what living closer to her opened up my eyes to see!
Thank you Dr. Ramani for sharing from your deep well of knowledge, understanding, and experience.
Your insight and truth-telling have helped SO much with my personal healing from abuse by a covert narcissist.
“The power of ‘And’” 🙌🏼🙌🏼🙌🏼
God damn you’re good! 👊🏼
WOW, WOW, WOW!!! I Could cry.
Radical Acceptance & the hard work of trauma therapy. Experiencing this while growing up. Almost broke me. 🌌💙🕉
"AND!" So great. Thank you Dr Ramini.
Wow! Powerful words Dr. Ramani. You probably just saved hundreds of people.
Yes, this is exactly what I have experienced, the whole childhood drama excuse for bad behavior! Thank you for this video! I am trying not to be such an enabler and work on my own issues! Your videos have been VERY helpful!
Thank you for the approach and importance of the word AND. Us empaths need those insights of encouragement.
I am so so pleased you did this specific video. After watching all of your videos on this subject, I now understanding, so clearly, what happened in my relationship. The difficult childhood, the affairs the father had, the "You don't talk about your feelings" the selfishness of the parents only interested in themselves, the abandonment by the parents and so on and so on. The way he idolises the father now, yet in the same breath will say how he was treat as a child, as if that is an excuse for the way he has turned out. Honestly, I could not have a more perfect example of everything you have described. Like father like son is so true, an affair that he kept returning too, the lies, the false promises, the future faking, the gas lighting and inability to talk about how he felt or why he behaved the way he did. The list is endless. I still struggle with the knowledge of what he must have gone through as a child and that a lot of his behaviour is probably unconscious and a protection mechanism for his insecurities, but you are so right, there is still a choice to at least try to get help. It's NOT OK to project their pain onto someone they are "Supposed" to love, who has done nothing to them to deserve being treated like this. They do have a choice, because they do know they are hurting someone. Even if they can't feel empathy, they can see with their own eye's, the pain they are causing someone, because they are not stupid. Thank you so much Dr Ramani for all the work you do. It helps so many people navigate and make sense of what is such a confusing place to be in. xxx
DR. RAMANI took the words out of my mouth. I am grateful for you.
This! A thousand times. Based on his stories, my narc learned that approval from his dad was earned with blood, sweat and tears...and then the goalpost was moved so it was never good enough. He was denied basic childhood joys of playing with friends because his dad would suddenly invent some task that absolutely had to be done. Fast forward to today where he has that same work ethic that was beat into him, but is repeating the cycle of expecting the same from everyone else. How dare I put off this random task that he suddenly decides has to be done right now because I had already planned to visit with family that day, or need to work overtime during a busy season, or make the mistake of deciding to tackle a different item on the to-do list that he didn't deem the most important at that moment. Rinse. Repeat.
I spent my last therapy appointment debating this exact thing with my therapist about one of my abusers. It’s not the first time we’ve had the conversation. Even listening to this, my brain has a hard time processing it. I’ve bookmarked this to replay as needed, especially from around 11:30 to 13:20. It might make my therapist’s life easier.
Thank you for all the hard work you put into your videos. The information is appreciated.
Story of my life..
Love your acting job of the narc. You’ve been there 😊
your videos have saved many lives. thank you for being gracious enough to make these for us. i’ve watched you for several years, and am convinced i will never not learn and grow from you. you’re my hero.
I was about to say Racial Acceptance work when you mentioned the 'and" instead of 'but' b/c you need to use radical acceptance with the 'and' so you don't continue getting hurt. We can empathize because they were raised in a horrid way, yet that doesn't mean it comes at the cost of our own harm. As adults, we have more freedom than when we were children and had no choice in order to survive. It isn't easy to distance or not wish they would hear us or have the empathy we can give them to us, yet once again we just have to keep working the radical acceptance lesson to help us and help us each time those feelings come up so we don't self-harm or collapse.
I tend to isolate because it makes me feel safe. If I'm alone, no one can hurt me.
I have not yet learned how to not allow these people to get inside my head.
It’s a lot of work to accomplish that. And well worth doing 😊
Dr. Ramani, this was such a brilliant video. In my case, I lived this, and then I was thrown into the world to try and assimilate. In the relationship department, I was completely worthless- professional, choosing bad friends, etc. I worried about paying bills and things like that, and making art, but my ability to communicate with people in the real world was lacking. It is not an excuse, but it is difficult for a person to assimilate and cover basic survival skills while also getting therapy. I did seek therapy many times but it was horrible, and they did not go into detail about any of these things. Thank you for all you do.
Wow! Thanks so much! You sounded like my mom and dad giving their childhood stories of horror, BUT those traumatic stories are not a license to abuse me!
I am a rescuer. This sad story of my ex Narc's childhood is what made me stay. Pity instead of love. And that flip is seriously mind boggling to the abused. All you're saying is very true I experienced it 💯
@ Dr. Ramani and community… Everyday I work on me, RUclips helps me. When I could not have or get access to adequate mental health services in my area, I found your channel and bought your book. Intuitively I knew what narcissism was growing up, but I did not have a proper label for it. I appreciate your channel. Thanks.🤔❤️
You said it “ the tough work of being a person “ my beginning was horrible I never used it as a excuse for my bad behavior 🤦♀️thanks doc 💐🙏
Thank you, Dr. Ramini, thank you, thank you ❤️! My childhood was VERY traumatic, but I become codependent instead of narcissistic. As I have come to terms with the abuse I endured, I have heard more than one family member excuse the abuser's behavior by reminding me how difficult their childhood was. As someone who became an unbalanced giver, I find this infuriating. So thank you speaking up!
This is the most spot on and necessary video on narcissism I’ve heard
I've started a therapy and realised I had alot of narcissicistic behavior and am working hard every day to fix my behavior. Yes I have made all excuses imaginable, but the more I take responsability for my own behavior and the way it affects people around me the more I realise that I was never gonna be happy living my life the way I was. facing my inner conflict is the hardest most difficult task I've ever tackled but I am grateful I am doing it because I can see the positiv change around me happeneing as I developpe more awarness.. thanks for your insight even if it feels hard to listen to your video they are helping and I'm grateful for them and for your work !
this material so resonates with me. i had to leave a relationship with my boyfriend, because i was finding his enabling of his teenage narcisstic drug dealing son who lived with us. i wouldnt have ever believed that my sane and rational boyfrd would spend so much time defending his son and telling me that i was too sensitive. i felt such shame then. it was heartbreaking. seeing his son treat his dad with such contempt and disrespect sickened me. his unwillingness to see the damage he was doing caused me to have no other choice than to leave. thanks dr ramani!
Damn. Your observant understanding of human behavior is amazing. Thanks for going there once again. I love ❤️ your generous giving of yourself here to help us all so much!
It may not be our fault whatsoever in terms of the trauma or harm that was done to us in life. The flip side of that coin is that it is our sole responsibility to manage ourselves in terms of healing, recovery and moving on in a healing manner. You're responsible for your life, your soul, emotions, health, behavior and outcomes. No matter who does us wrong, it's up to us how we respond, cope and heal. It's always, always, always up to us. There is no deferral of responsibility of self. God bless you all.
Arguably one of your most profound videos to date! 🏆
This is such a great message for EVERYONE to hear and you lay it out so beautifully flat 💛
Well done and thank you again and again Dr. Ramani 🤗
Sometimes parents raise us to be this way because they enable their partner who may be a narcissist. Anytime the narcissist parent does wrong they'll tell you, "they didn't mean it that way. It's just how they were taught to communicate." So some of us grew up that way, when a narcissist walks into our life we replicate the behaviour of our enabler parent. Let's raise our kids to stand their ground in a healthy way. Teach them to be confident in themselves and love themselves. 💪🏽
Simply amazing!!! Thank you, Doctor! ❤