Actually you don't have to buy new 6s Motors to try 6s, You can change the motor output limit in you're osd. Max Beamer has a good Video explaining this. I recently bought some 6s pack's and fly them on 2400kv, the motor output limit is on 73% so it is 1750kv.
While you certainly can limit the RPM and fly them on 6S, I suspect the internal resistance is different and therefore you will not see the power savings so this would only be a temporary solution for "trying" it and not for a daily flyer?
@@bugsysiegals Nope, I have more flightime on 6s than I had on 4s on the same Motor. Testet this on 4s with a output of 100%. Full throttle 110a, then 70% limit, 75a.
Iv flown 4s 1500mah for two years now and i can get 5 minutes just cruising about and around half that if I push it, I fly nearly every day and I love it 👍🏼
Your cruising must be a hell of a lot faster than mine, I get around 8 minutes cruising with tricks thrown in here and there, 4 when I really push it. (on 4s 1500mah) Felt like BF 4.2 improved flight time quite a bit for me. Not sure if thats real though.
4S 1300mAh with AUW ~590g (with HD camera) and I get 5 minutes consistently when flying pretty intense freestyle. My setup draws just about 85 amps max, but somehow it's really more than enough power to pull from even big dives with 5143 prop and 2400kv
@@lukastamulevicius8308 Do you have any flight videos ? Its always nice to see what other people get up to with there quad's, what speed, what moves ect, I think the more we share and talk to further the hobby will grow
Seems to be a good bit of wrong information floating around about 6S. 6S in most cases operates at an efficiency loss, not an efficiency gain. The ONLY exception to that is if you're loosing effective battery capacity at lower voltage due to voltage sag, but that really only applies to racers who are pushing the current rating limits of their batteries. In most cases going to 6S is at best break-even in terms of watt-hours, and typically a slight loss. Yes, you gain power and better handling of voltage sag, but efficiency is definitely not an end result for most folks going to 6S. Lower amps does not equal better efficiency, and most folks claiming longer flight times are using larger watt-hour batteries. You also loose some low throttle torque as a result of Ohm's law and the relationship between torque and current (not watts or voltage, only current). The difference is minimized somewhat because most 6S setups tend to be relatively higher Kv compared to the battery voltage than their 4S counterparts, but there is still a bit of a soft low end on 6S. The short version is I wish folks would do a bit more research before spreading colloquial wisdom that has no basis in reality as truth.
Thank you! I was going to make the same observation, a lot of folks don't really know how power works. If you raise your voltage you might use less current but the power usage still the same. The main advantage is using thinner lighter wiring but honestly for the length the motors use the gains wouldn't be an advantage overall. Also a battery under load has a lower voltage and if you just set your quad to work for 6s the voltage sag would be percentage wise at the same point because of the individual cell voltage would be still lower and a lose responsiveness anyways.
Just recently switched from 2700kv 4s to 1800kv 6s. I do notice the advantage. Throttle response is a bit sharper and ripping time improved from 2:10 on 1500mah 4s to 3:20 on 1000mah 6s. All newcomers should definitely go with 6s. It is where the hobby is going. You don’t want to buy motors and batteries again. I bet Drew and Vortex will be on 6s pretty soon.
Save all of your old 4S batteries for when everyone switches to 8S in a couple of years, then you can just run them in series - Don't just get rid of them!
Why might you not go 6S? (Doesn't mean you shouldn't, but you SHOULD be aware of these things) 1. Higher chance of blowing components like ESCs, FCs, VTX's, etc. The higher the voltage you're running, the higher the spikes when something goes wrong like crashes, and therefore the more likely something is to pop. 2. More likely to have video noise. 3. You can get away without adding a capacitor on 4S (although you should put a capacitor on any build, it's just good practice) on most builds. 6S? You pretty much have to put a capacitor on. (See #1 and #2 for why.) 4. Because of the voltage drop off being more abrupt at the end, you need to look at both mAh drawn AND voltage while you're flying, not just voltage. Arguably more complicated, especially for beginners. You then also have to not just tune the voltage stuff on the FC, but also the amp meter stuff on top of that. (Bardwell has a great easy way for how.) Still, yet another thing you gotta do on a build before you're arguably flight ready. 5. What gets lost in discussions about battery cost between 4S and 6S isn't just the upfront cost of the packs, but also the fact that if you have more cells, that's more cells that can tank, and the more likely you'll have to replace the battery because a single cell dies. Honestly, the up front cost of packs these days isn't vastly different. But 6S costs more in the end because of packs being more likely to die plus the increased chances of popped components.
I agree with all of what you've highlighted, I think that they are valid concerns and I'm not one who's knowledgeable enough to meet you point for point however if I may, allow me to make an attempt? To address point 1) while this is true I'd tend to thing that the manufacturers have specked their products to cater for this with better quality or more robust components to be able to handle the loads on 6s packs. There wouldn't be a point to rating them 6s otherwise, and yes some will skimp on quality so it may be a good idea to pick products which have been sufficiently reviewed to begin with as that will improve the chance of success. Point 2) Better grounding practices may address this and again the components are likely better designed these days so it would be better to stick with more recent products which likely will iron out those issues and which have good reputations. Also the end user should employ best practices when installing to help minimize this. (I ran the cheapo mamba stack and never had this issue at all not on 4s not on 6s. However the Mateck F405 STD and SD does ...well they are older tech go firgure. Point 3) Well, you've basically addressed that already, always use a cap, a good one (or 4 good ones). Point 4) It would be prudent to just not fly your batteries down that low though right? The web is full of guides telling people how to make sure they keep their lipo's within healthy range, in fact the only people I know of who frequently fly their packs to oblivion are hard core racers and regardless if they 4 or 6s they are going to run that pack down and destroy it anyway. I've heard them talk as though they have no regard for their packs anyway. Plus they practice over charging and warming them up before a race, so they don't care really as winning the race is worth is and profitable. Normal freestyle people who don't have large budgets tend to take care of their packs. The others who don't take care of them tend to be less well informed or are beginners. There are many ways to keep your packs happy, using timers and as you mentioned OSD monitors. As a user you just have to keep your ducks in a line and you'll be fine. All it takes is for it to happen to you once and the lesson is learnt. Point 5) A bad cell in a pack is basically bad pack regardless if it is a 1s, 12s, or 100s. Typically if you have a bad cell you'll see a degradation in performance and will or should replace it anyway. It's never a good idea to fly a bad pack because sometimes you just don't know at what point in your flight it will crap out on you, 2s 3s 4s 6s? same difference, but some people will push and sometimes we get lucky. The cost difference can be a deciding factor for some people yes and those who's pockets or interests aren't there yet simply won't go there, nothing wrong with that. The great thing about the hobby is that we all have options and it's awesome that people like you exist to make people aware of the caveats to making this or that decision, whereas everyone else seems to be pushing everyone to go 6s without pointing out all of these things which you just did. I went 6s just a month ago and so far I'm quite happy I did and won't be gong back to 4s... I've not gotten bitten by my decision yet in 44 flights. So, so far so good.. Previously, was on 4s with over 360 flights on 6 packs but now I'm down to 4 packs (had to convert one 4s pack to 3s, which I now use as my bench testing battery). Roughly 70 flights on each pack that's not at all bad and I think I got my monies worth. Looking fwd to having my 6s packs last me much longer than the 4s packs did. I hope you understand that this is just my opinion, and not intended to start a keyboard war. As I said I'm not well versed in the hobby but we can agree to disagree if need be. It's interesting to share ideas. Keep safe and Happy landings.
@@elxero2189 This is all good discussion, so I'm down to discuss it. 1. It doesn't really matter if manufacturers rated it to take 6S or not for the relevance of this point... the spikes when something goes wrong is till higher on 6S. If the components are more robust and less likely to pop with 6S than before, then they're even less likely to pop on 4S regardless. 2. Better grounding practices do not address video noise in 6S vs 4S. You have to add a capacitor on 6S no matter what else you do to eliminate video noise on almost any 6S build, and you can often not even have to try to improve how you ground in 4s and still get clear video. Granted, you should add capacitors on any 6S build anyway (See point 1), but 6s has always been more video noise prone. 4. There's almost nothing wrong with flying your batteries down to 3.6V per cell, 6S or 4s. The amount of permanent damage you cause going down to 3.6V per cell is neglible. The problem is 6S batteries will hang in 3.6V for a very long time (that's the big reason to go to 6S - higher avg cell voltage during the length of the flight), and then crash voltage rapidly to damaging levels. 4S will dip slowly into the 3.5's, then crash after that. No matter how you slice it, it's easier to tell based on voltage alone when to land on 4S compared to 6S unless you're just gonna land at 3.6V per cell on 6s when you should have a good amount of flight left with minimal longevity impacts to the battery. Timers are poor means to determine when you need to land because you can cruise and get six minutes of flight time, or fly hard and only get 3 minutes. And I disagree with you it happens one time, and you learn your lesson. Every pilot I know from time to time inadvertently overdraws their packs. It happens. It's still easier to tell when to land on 4s vs 6s. 5. I think you missed my point. With a six cell battery, there are six chances for one cell to go bad. On 4S, there's four chances for one cell to go bad. The chances of a single cell dying in a 6s pack will always be higher all other things being equal. 6s pack cells individually all other things being equal or no more or less likely to die than cells in 4s packs. There's just more of them, and therefore more chances of failure on a single cell. So yeah... and I just moved to 6S btw. I have nothing against 6s. 4S and 6S each have their pros and cons. It's just important for people to know that they're trading all the points I made for higher avg cell voltage for the duration of the flight, and therefore better voltage quality, but they give up some things that I listed in doing so. Good discussion, and I didn't take it as a personal attack or anything.
@@heroflying Awesome. I see and understand your points better now. 1. I think thing's will continue to improve, especially since 6s is becoming more popular and it may very well not be something to be concerned about soon enough. 2. To be honest I've only ever had video noise on 2 FC thus far and it'd didn't matter if it were 4s or 6s. I've had cheap $9 F1, cc3d FC to more expensive ones and got no video issues on for eg mamba flight stacks clone spf3 or even a cheapo naze32 aio but no matter what pack, I got nose on my matek and akk f405 boards 4s 6s cap or no cap. In fact, it seems the ones based round the same omnibus design seems to be mostly affected but I don't know. Caps imo should always be used ragardless or 4s or 6s though, only using a common ground point helped address the video noise for me so I couldn't blame my issue on number of cells used and couldn't conclude that 6s definitely was more nose prone because from what I experienced it was an issue with board design or manufacturing. 4. I agree that timers are a poor solution as it really does depend on the kind of flying you're doing. However the way I learned to use timers I guess is different from how most people use them. I do the calculations using a wattsup meter and check for the max time limit on full throttle burn then set the timer to that time limit. That way, doesn't matter how I fly...because if I'm aggressive I'll always be within good battery limit for any flight and if I just cruise then the timer will go off and I'll still have plenty juice left ...after that I can always check out the osd to see where I'm at with voltage. If someone only has a timer as an option then this is a great way IMO to use one. I never bother with Mah draw because I'm always glancing at my voltage even during high throttle moves and always always try to land at 3.7v per cell. I still get the same 4 minutes and 30 second flight times that I did from my 4s 1500mah that I now get on a 6s 1250mah pack with plenty juice to spare if I wanted to... I think the mistake influences are making are that they try to use this idea of extra flight time from 6s packs which gives people a false sense of security about their packs and that's why people are likely to suffer from this sudden voltage drop. Maybe people expect too much, I was already aware of the sudden drop issue and the fact that 6s packs give you power on tap till the very fatal end of the pack and as such I never tried to get more out of my pack as I'm happy with the 4 minute flight that I already get. That's the lesson I spoke of which I learned. If i really want more time i'll just get a bigger pack. I treated all my 4s packs this way and still after 6 months 70 flights per pack I ended up with bad packs so yes while point 5 is correct, where there is a greater chance of a bad pack I think there's something to be said about just dumb luck with these things too no matter how conservative or careful you are sometimes when your time's up it's up. In fact I bought two GnB packs 120C rating and one of them came from the shipper already puffed. just dumb luck. It still flew okay till i left it in storage mode for two days and it swelled even more. Sometimes you have a bad pack and don't even know it, I was fortunate to know from out of the box.. GrasonHobby never responded to my emails about the bad pack so I was stuck with it. Sometimes you just get a bad battery no matter what, higher chance, lower chance of battery going bad.. pff it's all the same to me but I guess I'll see if it's true that my 6s packs will last me longer or not, I continue to keep logging my cycles and flights to make sure it was worth the switch. The main major reason I moved to 6s was this idea that your packs will last you longer than 4s packs will. At the 70 cycle point I immediately saw a degradation in performance in all of my packs simultaneously. The packs were still good and still fly well but I can't get a full 4 minute flight without noticing drop in performance and my overall voltage dropping sooner than I'm used to. from what I understand this will not happen as quick on 6s and that was more than enough for me to make the switch I want my packs to last me more than 6 months and if that's possible its more than worth all of the previously mentioned stress because I'm sure I can find a work around for them.
@@elxero2189 1. I think where things are improving is more things are 6S capable, but I don't see any trends that suggest that electronics are being built to necessarily survive surges caused from crashes better when 6S is used. I just don't think it's something manufacturers are necessarily focused on doing. 4. Completely agree that 6S benefits are often misconstrued by influencers that don't line up with the real world. 100% agree with you that 6S is not noticeably more efficient than 4s, so if you're getting longer flight times on 6S, it's almost certainly because you're using newer and/or batteries with more working amp hours. 6S DOES help with sag though. I do think you should honestly setup and use mAh drawn. It is a useful stat to have, as it can help you identify packs for example that are suspect. If you sag into the 3.6V per cell for example on a 6s 1100mAh pack, and you've only drawn say 500mAh, that's a great way to detect that your battery potentially has a problem. Also, you mentioned if you want more flight time, you'll just get a bigger pack. That keep in mind also has tradeoffs. For one, they're more expensive. The bigger issue though is they're heavier, so you're not gonna have apples to apples flight performance. Yes, there's dumb luck with packs, sure, just like rolling dice, but as you roll the dice more and more, or buy more and more packs, it's without a doubt that you'll have more failures over time with 6S over 4S packs, assuming all other variables are the same (battery quality, care for the batteries, etc.) If you buy 6S packs thinking you'll get more recharge cycles out of them than 4s, you've probably made a mistake. About the only thing 6s will do is reduce sag during flights from the first flight on the pack to the last, so it's possible 6s might keep the acceptable performance for you longer.. But the cells degrade just like they do in 4s beyond that. And, as I said, since 6s packs are just statistically more likely to fail, it's probably a wash.
I fly both- I like the 6s power for my heavyweight quads but tend to fly 4s more on the smaller quads bc battery management is a little easier. The 4s batteries I use are smaller, lighter and charge faster. Plus the 4s battery charger I have is significantly smaller than the 6s charger so when I travel I take the 4s rigs.
One note for the people thinking of switching from 4s to 6s: if the only dealbreaker is that you would need to buy motors rated for 6s, you can just simply lower your throttle input in betaflight CLI. So unless your fc, esc isn't rated for 6s, you just need a 6s battery, change some things in betaflight and you are good to go. The feeling will be pretty much the same as flying a 6s rig....as far as I know😃
I think for beginners a 6s quad flown with 4s battery are perfekt, Sometimes when I want a long cruise I put on a bigger 4s. (1800mah 4s and normally 1050mah 6s)
I’m just getting into the fpv hobby but been playing with rc trucks and DJI drones for years. My first 5” build is a 6S setup. 1700kv motors with F7 FC and T-motor 4-in-1 esc. Almost got it built. Should be flying this week sometime
ORT BBX yeah your right. That’s probably the next frame I will buy. Can’t wait to fly it tomorrow. Getting it setup and programmed now. Fpv rocks. Way more challenging than DJI and I love a challenge.
changing to 6s was best thing ever for me, but it depends on your flying. just freestyle around and i dont think 6s brings you much, but flying what i do mostly is chasing stuff. in this 6s made huge difference! now i can keep up with cars and motorcycles for the whole pack.
Yeah guys you missed the big point of 6s. Less current draw.(at fitting kv) No need for 100 x packs anymore. That's also why houses run on 120v not on 12v. Less amps for same power resulting in less heatloss and overall better efficiency
I have flown 4S for almost a year now, i just build a new Armatton Rooster build, and went with 6S. I have 1800kv motors, and i absolutely love flying 6S on it for more punchy flights, but i also fly 4S on it, and get a more mooshy flight, but it is still a very nice flight experience. 6S all the way!!!
I just started flying, I got my qav already built I just assume the components are only rated for 4s & binded to a frsky radio but as a nuby still learning I wanted 6s but I was to anxious to to build my own rig. If you know this is a hobby you gonna do for a long time then get what you want weather it's 4s or 6s. Who cares just have fun
Bro I just crashed 2 motors and a battery pack so I decided to make the jump to a 6s setup and now I am just waiting for the parts to arrive. Amazing timing of this vid! Thanks!!! Keep it up!
I built a 6s rig and nearly doubled my flight times. Didn't expect such a dramatic result. But when these batteries hit 3.5v per cell, they drop like a rock. The constant power throughout the flight is fantastic.
Wait a Minute, im so confused right now, I come from Rc Cars, (I ohne an Arrma Kraton exb with 6s) I charge my Lipo Batteries to 4,2V per cell and discharge them to 3,3-3,4v per cell. Why doesn't this dude only discharge them until 3,8v? This is in Germany the storage capacity (so called the Nennspannung) I'm so confused, or do the US guys run different lipos 🤔
My experience is: if you really want it, you can get a lot of flight time out of both but the avarage consistant power of 6S is a real benefit. The only downside is, you should be carefull at the "end" of the battery because its droping volts really quickly and you might damage it. Keep up your great work dudes !
I was probably the last person in my racing group to migrate to 6S, and there's no going back now, it's THAT much better. And it's not really about more top-end power or longer flight time. To me it's really about the difference in throttle feel, response. Night and day. Really. Feels so much more "direct" with 6S. My 4S setup was sharp but until I tried 6S, I simply didn't know what I was missing out. When you punch throttle, it just responds so much faster, so much more direct. The best I can describe is, pushing on a rubber band with some slack vs. super tight rubber band
You can go waaay lower on a 4S battery. In my experience ~14.2V is okay (~3.5V per cell). A 3.7V LiPo cell is considered empty at 3.5V and fully charged at 4.2V. 3.7V is the nominal/average voltage. Not the minimum voltage. You could even go down to 3V per cell but that could be damaging to the cell. It's really the absolute minimum. It's perfectly fine to discharge a 4S LiPo down to 14.2V. You just shouldn't really push it any further. If you stop at 14.2V it will recover and perfectly level itself at its storage voltage around 3.7V. I think I may have landed some sort of coincidence that made my quad really efficient. Admittedly, I also don't fly ridiculously fast and don't do flips and stuff like that, but on a 4S 1500mAh LiPo, I can easily crack 12 minutes of flight time. Around 10 minutes at 1400mAh.
I love you guys so don’t take this the wrong way. It is always refreshing to listen to “we are not the test guys, we’re the fun guys” talk about technical things from a subjective point of view. Drives me crazy sometimes though. I love the “fun” part, but please figure out what e=ir and p=ei=isquared(r) to help with your explanations. Like the soldering as you say, it’s not really that difficult. I’m interested in knowing how do the esc’s drive a motor. Does it apply full voltage but “throttle” how much time it is or isn’t applied or does it “throttle” the actual voltage amount? The actual dynamics of “ripping” the quad means it would take a calculus professor to completely quantify what is actually happening, which would be fun but in a totally different kind of way, lol. Steady state throttle though to spin up a prop and leave it you could figure out how long it would continue to spin at that setting by measuring the current and voltage the motor is seeing. Of course nobody flys that way so it is like driving your car sometimes you push the gas a little and sometimes you smash it to the floor. Drive like a jack rabbit and your fuel use increases giving you less mpg as opposed to driving like granny does to church on Sundays and your fuel mpg goes up quite a bit. So in your quad your battery is the tank. It only holds so much juice. If you expend it rapidly you flight time suffers. If you fly slower you still have the same amount of energy available but since you are not flooring the accelerator and using at high speed it lasts longer=> longer flight time. BTW I’m pretty sure you can get a 4s battery which holds the exact or even more energy than a 6s battery, why anyone would have done this could be for many reasons, but there you go.
What where the battery specification? Using a 1400ma 6s so was the 4s 2100ma? Otherwise it's not an apple apple comparison. And 1800kv motors on 6s is 2700kv 4s equivalent but in the test they are comparing it with way lower kv 4s motors. This is happening in every 4s vs 6s comparison.... Not apple apple comparison.
Well its easely calculatable, a 1400Mah 6s (that's a huge battery but anyway) would be times 6 devided by 4 to get the 4s equivalent. Which is 2100Mah yeah
Yep. I've committed to it. Slowly transitioning and now Half my LiPo's are 5s. Them 6s Blaster motors going to seal the deal for my Butter Kwad now that I'm over my destruction phase of learning. 🤘😉
If you're gonna go to 6s also make sure your props can handle it. You dont need them snapping off in mid flight from the extra torque like what happened to me.
I just finished my first 6s quad last week, I'll never look back at 4s.. it sucks 6s batteries cost more but the lack of voltage sag alone made it work the switch
i totally agree with drew at the end. if you want more flight time, and your components can handle it, components and firmware is getting so goood. you can get away with running a 5s and a 10%cut if you want more time, or no cut just crusing. thats all i do, never had a issue 2207-2500kv, plus 4s is generally lighter AUW.
One downside I didn't see you mention for beginners is that if you are going to be crashing a ton and possibly destroying the batteries spending a fortune on high quality 6s batteries will hurt a lot more. If you are starting out and want 6s stick to the cheaper lines (my favorite less expensive 6s is pyrodrone 1100mAh) until you don't crush them anymore
i got PDEVX skyliner set up for 6s , i got skyliner for 4s set up, i have vanover 4s and 6s set up too. i use the diffrent ones depending on the spot , if its new , if im super used to it, if i like the super light build , or if i love the weight to huck and let the weight carry me into a trick rather than just power into the next trick. so im fortunate enough to have a little extra income to have a wider array of gear but i did the same when i rode BMX, or surfed, etc... somedays when its windy you want the heavy kwad so you can stay on line without worrying about tightening your sticks , idk i tried 6s after starting on 4s and slowly started jumping back and forth depending on conditions. so do what you want , and sometimes just do stuff to annoy other ppl and make it sound like you have a legit reason for doing it whiel having a self laugh lol
It's not really a thing like 4S and 6S. I've seen 5S batteries, but I've never seen anything else rated for 5S. i.e. if something can do 5S, it can also do 6S, so I'd just call it "running 5S batt on 6S gear"
Great video Personally, I split the difference and run a 5s so i can have a slightly higher mAh battery and lower KV. Voltage sag is a little less and I definitely see the desire of 6S for some. Feels like a lot of pilots adopted running 6S from racing and skipped 5S but I wanna give it an honest try for freestyle before hopping to 6S. Whatever you're flying doesn't matter as long as you're flying
i startet half a year ago on 4s freestyle...but im getting more into racing so once my 4s packs are DEAD, i will make the switch no question. love the Video and to see Vortex again :D
Add a test with 6S battery and 4S motors with throttle scaling in Betaflight configuration. This seems a way for many who have 6S batteries, only 4S motors left from previous years and can't upgrade to 6S motors at once. Mine case exactly :)
My first bird that I just got the other day is the Bang God with Brother Hobby 2507/1850 and I have the Massive Droner on the way with a BabyHawk II HD coming. So I have both 6s and 4s
If the electronics can handle 6s, you can set up the quad to work with both batteries, 4s and 6s. I have a quad with 6s motors, and that one is useless on 4s battery, but i also have a "hybrid" with 4s motors and a throttle limit for 6s, and i can fly normally with both types of batteries.
It feels like this video has been made specifically for guys like myself. I was in fact playing with the dilemma. I got a fully built and smooth flying 4S TBS Source One with a AUW 660gramms 1400mAh 4S including a RunCam5. I got Xing 2306 2450KV motors (no good for 6S) and individual max.4S ESCs running DShot600. After watching this video I only need some more 4S packs BUT not a new set of motors and 4in1 32bit esc.
@@2strokeme64 that is true but a 2450KV motor has different winding than a 1800KV motor has - meaning I got less torque but more rpm. So I would end up with less torque as well and the heat on the stators kill the magnets on the long run. Stayin' with the 4S packs I got (8pcs) for a while. ;)
@@justfpv1432 only real catch is that you will have slightly higher amp draw. Unlikely to hurt anything as long as you have good quality ESCs and limit it to a sensible output. It isn't the best way but if you want to slowly accrue batteries before you buy motors and can't afford to jump all at once it definitely works fine. You can also set it up to auto switch profiles in BF 4.2 depending on which battery you plug in to make it even easier to ride out the transition period.
@@justfpv1432 the motors arent rated for 6s but with the motor output limit they make the same rpm as on 4s so you can fly 6s on 4s motors. I do this for a couple of months now and it works fine Before i fly 5s of 4s motors without a motor output limit and it works fine. I am slowly buying 6s lipos and fly it on my 4s motors untill i have enough lipos and then i switch over to 6s motors just because i dont have enough money to switch all my 7 quad over at ones😉
Cool flying. Loved the video. But I just want to comment ( me being a total noob ) for me a beginner would be asking 'which whoop to start with , or at least which small 3inch shall I get' . 4S , let alone 6S to me sounds like 'experienced flying', godmode level.
If one wants to go for efficiency then 22V x 12A x 4 (nr of ESC) is already 1056W. So if you can find light 12A 6S ESC, smaller wires, connectors, low kv motors, light 6S battery you can get some weight benefit smaller amps allow. Some 6S ESCs are like 50A with thick wires, that is useless weight if want to go for efficency IMHO.
BF4.2 has vbat sag compensation that gives a more consistent throttle response as voltage drops and it works really well. More consistent throttle response was for me the big advantage of 6S, so right now, I’ll just stick to my 4S gear.
@@MachuPichuu Expensive as in 10 percent more expensive. 4s and 6s aren't far apart in price anymore. I'd rather have 5, 6s packs than 6, 4s packs, for exemple
If you typically use midrange or higher quality products than the difference between 4s and 6s is negligible. Sure you CAN build a 4s cheaper than the cheapest possible 6s but I personally don't feel like you should. My personal philosophy in quads is that I'd rather have a few high quality quads rather than many cheap quality ones. I made the switch to 6s and haven't looked back.
As a diesel guy and knowing Drew is a car guy I can't believe he didn't go for the horsepower vs torque argument. 6s has way more torque and that means more power but also more wear on parts, but 4s means moderately worse torque vs less wear on parts. You add more git' er done to parts and wear faster but that's not the only way to get what you want. You blow the Cummins at 3K and 650HP vs the Civic at 13K and 750HP. Just like F1 can't tow a damn thing but NASCAR can out tow daddy's powerstroke, 4s will make less actual power but 6s will own it all but you best be ready for the rebuild.
4s Freestyle and 6s for racing. But slowly headed to 6s everywhere. Just picked up the blaster and battery deal. One step closer to 6s in all my quads. Lol
I'm surprised you guys aren't flying 6s. I won't get into a 4s vs 6s debate, as YT is filled with those videos, but in my opinion 6s has many advantages over 4s. I fly both, but definitely prefer 6s! I've seen deals on 6s for a pack of 3 1300mah @$77, that's not bad!
Let’s see change KV to make it same rpm as 4S , after additional weight for 2 more sales no noticeable increased flight time. No thank you! Batteries seems to be biggest expense. Thanks for helping make it clear. Staying 4S for now.
@@vampcaff No, that's not the point. This video should have indeed come out 2 years ago. This 4s vs 6s is irrelevant because 6s is just better in almost every way. The video should have come out 2 years ago because thats when the whole 4s vs 6s debate started. Also beginners can just watch a 2 year old video, they dont need a new one
@@justfpv1432 Wouldn't have helped either. The same physical and electrical laws applied two years ago as today. In short: there is no advantage with 6S in terms of flight time. Just more power. But do beginners need this?
You can run a 4s down to 12.8 as long as the cells don't drop below 3.2 volts. But even if the cell dips below 3.2 it rebounds back. I've flown a 4s down to 11.8 and the battery is still fine.
As a solar installer I'm gonna have to say you can't charge 24v with 12v. You can however charge the cells separately. Like if I have a 24v battery bank made from 2 12v batteries in series I can use 2 12v battery chargers or change the batteries from series to parallel and use one charger @ 12v. Which is what a balance charger is doing. If you sent 12v into a 6s battery via the xt60 it will not charge. My 24v battery bank made from 4x 12v batteries 2x series in parallel charges at 29.6 in bulk absorption mode, and floats at 27.2. full resting voltage is 25.6. My 2c worth
Flight time means everything... we all wanna be in the air longer!!!! Really does depend on flying style though! If you only rip for 2min on a track, might be worth it.
I’m waiting for racers to get so technical they put the smallest possible battery on. Like auto racers who calculate exactly how much fuel will be needed to keep poll position after the last pit stop. That’s when shits gonna get crazy
AbnormallyNormal // most pro racers already do this. I suck at racing, and I built a sub 250g powered by a 650mah 4s battery. It’s balls to the walls for 3 minutes, problem is batt sag
You guys also have freestyle quads that are stupid heavy. I like to freestyle with the Hawk Pro which comes in around 300 grams. 6S has me seeing a minimum of 5 minute flight times.
I like the idea of 6s in that it can be more efficient depending on your battery to motor combo, you can get more flight time and some aren’t as loud. But it took my forever to get a 5s battery... cause of the cost and other reasons. But I love my 4s 1550mah batteries. I just stared getting 1309 5s batteries lol. More flight time would be great but having to change all my gear .. ehhhhhhhh lol
Flying 4S at the moment, and I have to agree with Drew. It is not something that holds back my flying in any way whatsoever. Maybe after I get to a point where I'm pulling insane tricks in quick succession I will notice some sag I could've avoided with 6S, but it is absolutely not a concern of mine right now. There's one point I would have liked to hear more about though. Given that the amp draw is generally lower for a 6S battery per cell, do these batteries last longer? Would love to hear from someone who has experience using both!
Yes actually. If you think about it, having more cells to hold up the voltage will make them sag less. And everyone knows a cell that dont go undet 3.5 is a happy cell
if im flying a heavy setup 6s all the way, but if you want more flight time just get a 1500 mha or more battery, i know 6 s is abit more efficient but 2 times the price for the battery plus you need a beefier charger to charge the 6s, unlike regular chargers that can easily go up to 4s
There’s another advantage with 6S over flight time. 6S setups resists sag way more than a 4S system. That allows for hardcore flying all the way up the end of your battery life
@@air-headedaviator1805 thats true! the big advantage is it doesnt have that much sag,just depends how you fly, im still a nooby and fly for fun so i really dont mind unlike people who do it in dangerous places who need that extra voltage
What size 4s batteries were you running Jeff? A 6s 1400mah (what you were using on the quad, not 1300’s you are selling in the kit) has about the equivalent energy density as a 2100mah 4s battery doesn’t it? The 1300 6s has about the energy density of a 1950mah 4s battery. You should be getting good flight times.... until you cane it. 😁
My Black Series 1100 CNHL batteries are arriving this coming Thursday! They said it's the best battery! I don't know if that's true. I will find out. I also noticed you were using DJI goggles. What do you think about latency, is it fixed?
Well, you can fly 4S down to 13.2V - 3.3V/cell is LiPos' actual minimum, but I guess the reason people tend to stop at 3.6 V/cell is because if they're a distance away when it hits 3.3V, then they're in trouble if they still want to fly back. And as these guys found out the hard way, under 3.3V LiPo voltage drops extremely quickly.
I just try on my quad. 2 profile 4s n 6s with 4s motor 2750kv. 6s motor limit to 1850kv. My quad more heavy and flight time same. The motor look like struggle to punch.
The two main points made for 6s in this video don't really make sense to me: - Can 6s really be noticable more efficent then 4s, since efficencies in a system are multiplied? So the whole thing propably boils down to 1-2%? - The dip in voltage at the end is still the same in term of voltage/kv ratio? So it's still the same drop in RPM? Moreover people advertising 6s as more flight time often compare 6s 1300 mAh to 4s 1550 mAh. Thats a 200g vs 1800g lipo. Or better compared to a 4s 1800mAh. Looking at this fact it's easy to notice where the lower preceived voltage sag comes from. The two main points boil down to: - Use of better quality cells in 6s lipo -> therefore the increased price. You can always just buy higher quality 4s lipos to get the same - Most importantly, the fact that higher capacitly lipos also have a higher maximum amp draw. Just fly a 1800mAh 4s and you will see the same effect. In my opinion there's 0 difference... Maybe 1-2% are worth it for racing. Definitly not for us casuals.
i started on 6s and find the only drawback i found was the price of the batteries. the motors are the same price and why not get a little more power for pulling out of dives
Do they mention what size battery the 4S is? Because the 6S is 1400mAh which would be roughly the same capacity as a 2100mAh 4S battery and I really doubt they used a 4S that large. I'm pretty sure you actually fly LESS time on the same Wh with 6s vs 4S.
My question is… What size packs did you use for both 4S and 6S? You do know you gotta go with a higher mAh 4S pack to match the total capacity of the 6S pack right?
![So, you bought a FPV Drone! [unboxing, set up, how to test fly]](/img/1.gif)
Actually you don't have to buy new 6s Motors to try 6s, You can change the motor output limit in you're osd.
Max Beamer has a good Video explaining this. I recently bought some 6s pack's and fly them on 2400kv, the motor output limit is on 73% so it is 1750kv.
Yep...
While you certainly can limit the RPM and fly them on 6S, I suspect the internal resistance is different and therefore you will not see the power savings so this would only be a temporary solution for "trying" it and not for a daily flyer?
@@bugsysiegals Nope, I have more flightime on 6s than I had on 4s on the same Motor. Testet this on 4s with a output of 100%. Full throttle 110a, then 70% limit, 75a.
Tim s just got a F80 2200kV which I’ll put on 6S ... not sure if I need to do any limiting but good to know in case I need to.
agree, i just started to write this,than i saw how u did. cheaper and easyer than soldering and spending money for new motors.
Iv flown 4s 1500mah for two years now and i can get 5 minutes just cruising about and around half that if I push it, I fly nearly every day and I love it 👍🏼
Im flying 4s 1550mah about same time
Your cruising must be a hell of a lot faster than mine, I get around 8 minutes cruising with tricks thrown in here and there, 4 when I really push it. (on 4s 1500mah)
Felt like BF 4.2 improved flight time quite a bit for me. Not sure if thats real though.
@@norb4152 I do fly pretty fast even when just cruising lol but it's all about the fun not flight time
4S 1300mAh with AUW ~590g (with HD camera) and I get 5 minutes consistently when flying pretty intense freestyle. My setup draws just about 85 amps max, but somehow it's really more than enough power to pull from even big dives with 5143 prop and 2400kv
@@lukastamulevicius8308 Do you have any flight videos ? Its always nice to see what other people get up to with there quad's, what speed, what moves ect, I think the more we share and talk to further the hobby will grow
Seems to be a good bit of wrong information floating around about 6S. 6S in most cases operates at an efficiency loss, not an efficiency gain. The ONLY exception to that is if you're loosing effective battery capacity at lower voltage due to voltage sag, but that really only applies to racers who are pushing the current rating limits of their batteries. In most cases going to 6S is at best break-even in terms of watt-hours, and typically a slight loss. Yes, you gain power and better handling of voltage sag, but efficiency is definitely not an end result for most folks going to 6S. Lower amps does not equal better efficiency, and most folks claiming longer flight times are using larger watt-hour batteries.
You also loose some low throttle torque as a result of Ohm's law and the relationship between torque and current (not watts or voltage, only current). The difference is minimized somewhat because most 6S setups tend to be relatively higher Kv compared to the battery voltage than their 4S counterparts, but there is still a bit of a soft low end on 6S.
The short version is I wish folks would do a bit more research before spreading colloquial wisdom that has no basis in reality as truth.
yep, We had this conversation months ago. 5s with 2207, 2400 kv motors seems to be the sweet spot for me.
Thank you! I was going to make the same observation, a lot of folks don't really know how power works. If you raise your voltage you might use less current but the power usage still the same. The main advantage is using thinner lighter wiring but honestly for the length the motors use the gains wouldn't be an advantage overall. Also a battery under load has a lower voltage and if you just set your quad to work for 6s the voltage sag would be percentage wise at the same point because of the individual cell voltage would be still lower and a lose responsiveness anyways.
Of course you are right and save me a time-consuming comment. Thanks!
Dam dude be quiet....theres gonna be less cheap 4s lipos now for me ;)~
even sag is just the same assuming the same WATT capacity of 4s vs 6S
More of vort3x in the videos, relaxed and sensible dude
+1 for this! 👍👍👍
I concur
I agree
Thanks!
Just recently switched from 2700kv 4s to 1800kv 6s. I do notice the advantage. Throttle response is a bit sharper and ripping time improved from 2:10 on 1500mah 4s to 3:20 on 1000mah 6s. All newcomers should definitely go with 6s. It is where the hobby is going. You don’t want to buy motors and batteries again. I bet Drew and Vortex will be on 6s pretty soon.
Save all of your old 4S batteries for when everyone switches to 8S in a couple of years, then you can just run them in series - Don't just get rid of them!
Funniest shit I ever seen😂
Like jb calling his x class a toothpick
I feel the need. The need. For speed.
Why might you not go 6S? (Doesn't mean you shouldn't, but you SHOULD be aware of these things)
1. Higher chance of blowing components like ESCs, FCs, VTX's, etc. The higher the voltage you're running, the higher the spikes when something goes wrong like crashes, and therefore the more likely something is to pop.
2. More likely to have video noise.
3. You can get away without adding a capacitor on 4S (although you should put a capacitor on any build, it's just good practice) on most builds. 6S? You pretty much have to put a capacitor on. (See #1 and #2 for why.)
4. Because of the voltage drop off being more abrupt at the end, you need to look at both mAh drawn AND voltage while you're flying, not just voltage. Arguably more complicated, especially for beginners. You then also have to not just tune the voltage stuff on the FC, but also the amp meter stuff on top of that. (Bardwell has a great easy way for how.) Still, yet another thing you gotta do on a build before you're arguably flight ready.
5. What gets lost in discussions about battery cost between 4S and 6S isn't just the upfront cost of the packs, but also the fact that if you have more cells, that's more cells that can tank, and the more likely you'll have to replace the battery because a single cell dies. Honestly, the up front cost of packs these days isn't vastly different. But 6S costs more in the end because of packs being more likely to die plus the increased chances of popped components.
I agree with all of what you've highlighted, I think that they are valid concerns and I'm not one who's knowledgeable enough to meet you point for point however if I may, allow me to make an attempt?
To address point 1) while this is true I'd tend to thing that the manufacturers have specked their products to cater for this with better quality or more robust components to be able to handle the loads on 6s packs.
There wouldn't be a point to rating them 6s otherwise, and yes some will skimp on quality so it may be a good idea to pick products which have been sufficiently reviewed to begin with as that will improve the chance of success.
Point 2) Better grounding practices may address this and again the components are likely better designed these days so it would be better to stick with more recent products which likely will iron out those issues and which have good reputations. Also the end user should employ best practices when installing to help minimize this. (I ran the cheapo mamba stack and never had this issue at all not on 4s not on 6s. However the Mateck F405 STD and SD does ...well they are older tech go firgure.
Point 3) Well, you've basically addressed that already, always use a cap, a good one (or 4 good ones).
Point 4) It would be prudent to just not fly your batteries down that low though right? The web is full of guides telling people how to make sure they keep their lipo's within healthy range, in fact the only people I know of who frequently fly their packs to oblivion are hard core racers and regardless if they 4 or 6s they are going to run that pack down and destroy it anyway.
I've heard them talk as though they have no regard for their packs anyway. Plus they practice over charging and warming them up before a race, so they don't care really as winning the race is worth is and profitable.
Normal freestyle people who don't have large budgets tend to take care of their packs.
The others who don't take care of them tend to be less well informed or are beginners.
There are many ways to keep your packs happy, using timers and as you mentioned OSD monitors. As a user you just have to keep your ducks in a line and you'll be fine.
All it takes is for it to happen to you once and the lesson is learnt.
Point 5) A bad cell in a pack is basically bad pack regardless if it is a 1s, 12s, or 100s. Typically if you have a bad cell you'll see a degradation in performance and will or should replace it anyway. It's never a good idea to fly a bad pack because sometimes you just don't know at what point in your flight it will crap out on you, 2s 3s 4s 6s? same difference, but some people will push and sometimes we get lucky.
The cost difference can be a deciding factor for some people yes and those who's pockets or interests aren't there yet simply won't go there, nothing wrong with that. The great thing about the hobby is that we all have options and it's awesome that people like you exist to make people aware of the caveats to making this or that decision, whereas everyone else seems to be pushing everyone to go 6s without pointing out all of these things which you just did.
I went 6s just a month ago and so far I'm quite happy I did and won't be gong back to 4s... I've not gotten bitten by my decision yet in 44 flights. So, so far so good..
Previously, was on 4s with over 360 flights on 6 packs but now I'm down to 4 packs (had to convert one 4s pack to 3s, which I now use as my bench testing battery). Roughly 70 flights on each pack that's not at all bad and I think I got my monies worth.
Looking fwd to having my 6s packs last me much longer than the 4s packs did.
I hope you understand that this is just my opinion, and not intended to start a keyboard war. As I said I'm not well versed in the hobby but we can agree to disagree if need be. It's interesting to share ideas.
Keep safe and Happy landings.
@@elxero2189
This is all good discussion, so I'm down to discuss it.
1. It doesn't really matter if manufacturers rated it to take 6S or not for the relevance of this point... the spikes when something goes wrong is till higher on 6S. If the components are more robust and less likely to pop with 6S than before, then they're even less likely to pop on 4S regardless.
2. Better grounding practices do not address video noise in 6S vs 4S. You have to add a capacitor on 6S no matter what else you do to eliminate video noise on almost any 6S build, and you can often not even have to try to improve how you ground in 4s and still get clear video. Granted, you should add capacitors on any 6S build anyway (See point 1), but 6s has always been more video noise prone.
4. There's almost nothing wrong with flying your batteries down to 3.6V per cell, 6S or 4s. The amount of permanent damage you cause going down to 3.6V per cell is neglible. The problem is 6S batteries will hang in 3.6V for a very long time (that's the big reason to go to 6S - higher avg cell voltage during the length of the flight), and then crash voltage rapidly to damaging levels. 4S will dip slowly into the 3.5's, then crash after that. No matter how you slice it, it's easier to tell based on voltage alone when to land on 4S compared to 6S unless you're just gonna land at 3.6V per cell on 6s when you should have a good amount of flight left with minimal longevity impacts to the battery. Timers are poor means to determine when you need to land because you can cruise and get six minutes of flight time, or fly hard and only get 3 minutes. And I disagree with you it happens one time, and you learn your lesson. Every pilot I know from time to time inadvertently overdraws their packs. It happens. It's still easier to tell when to land on 4s vs 6s.
5. I think you missed my point. With a six cell battery, there are six chances for one cell to go bad. On 4S, there's four chances for one cell to go bad. The chances of a single cell dying in a 6s pack will always be higher all other things being equal. 6s pack cells individually all other things being equal or no more or less likely to die than cells in 4s packs. There's just more of them, and therefore more chances of failure on a single cell.
So yeah... and I just moved to 6S btw. I have nothing against 6s. 4S and 6S each have their pros and cons. It's just important for people to know that they're trading all the points I made for higher avg cell voltage for the duration of the flight, and therefore better voltage quality, but they give up some things that I listed in doing so.
Good discussion, and I didn't take it as a personal attack or anything.
@@heroflying Awesome. I see and understand your points better now.
1. I think thing's will continue to improve, especially since 6s is becoming more popular and it may very well not be something to be concerned about soon enough.
2. To be honest I've only ever had video noise on 2 FC thus far and it'd didn't matter if it were 4s or 6s. I've had cheap $9 F1, cc3d FC to more expensive ones and got no video issues on for eg mamba flight stacks clone spf3 or even a cheapo naze32 aio but no matter what pack, I got nose on my matek and akk f405 boards 4s 6s cap or no cap.
In fact, it seems the ones based round the same omnibus design seems to be mostly affected but I don't know.
Caps imo should always be used ragardless or 4s or 6s though, only using a common ground point helped address the video noise for me so I couldn't blame my issue on number of cells used and couldn't conclude that 6s definitely was more nose prone because from what I experienced it was an issue with board design or manufacturing.
4. I agree that timers are a poor solution as it really does depend on the kind of flying you're doing. However the way I learned to use timers I guess is different from how most people use them.
I do the calculations using a wattsup meter and check for the max time limit on full throttle burn then set the timer to that time limit. That way, doesn't matter how I fly...because if I'm aggressive I'll always be within good battery limit for any flight and if I just cruise then the timer will go off and I'll still have plenty juice left ...after that I can always check out the osd to see where I'm at with voltage. If someone only has a timer as an option then this is a great way IMO to use one.
I never bother with Mah draw because I'm always glancing at my voltage even during high throttle moves and always always try to land at 3.7v per cell. I still get the same 4 minutes and 30 second flight times that I did from my 4s 1500mah that I now get on a 6s 1250mah pack with plenty juice to spare if I wanted to...
I think the mistake influences are making are that they try to use this idea of extra flight time from 6s packs which gives people a false sense of security about their packs and that's why people are likely to suffer from this sudden voltage drop.
Maybe people expect too much, I was already aware of the sudden drop issue and the fact that 6s packs give you power on tap till the very fatal end of the pack and as such I never tried to get more out of my pack as I'm happy with the 4 minute flight that I already get. That's the lesson I spoke of which I learned.
If i really want more time i'll just get a bigger pack.
I treated all my 4s packs this way and still after 6 months 70 flights per pack I ended up with bad packs so yes while point 5 is correct, where there is a greater chance of a bad pack I think there's something to be said about just dumb luck with these things too no matter how conservative or careful you are sometimes when your time's up it's up.
In fact I bought two GnB packs 120C rating and one of them came from the shipper already puffed. just dumb luck. It still flew okay till i left it in storage mode for two days and it swelled even more. Sometimes you have a bad pack and don't even know it, I was fortunate to know from out of the box.. GrasonHobby never responded to my emails about the bad pack so I was stuck with it.
Sometimes you just get a bad battery no matter what, higher chance, lower chance of battery going bad.. pff it's all the same to me but I guess I'll see if it's true that my 6s packs will last me longer or not, I continue to keep logging my cycles and flights to make sure it was worth the switch.
The main major reason I moved to 6s was this idea that your packs will last you longer than 4s packs will. At the 70 cycle point I immediately saw a degradation in performance in all of my packs simultaneously. The packs were still good and still fly well but I can't get a full 4 minute flight without noticing drop in performance and my overall voltage dropping sooner than I'm used to. from what I understand this will not happen as quick on 6s and that was more than enough for me to make the switch I want my packs to last me more than 6 months and if that's possible its more than worth all of the previously mentioned stress because I'm sure I can find a work around for them.
@@elxero2189
1. I think where things are improving is more things are 6S capable, but I don't see any trends that suggest that electronics are being built to necessarily survive surges caused from crashes better when 6S is used. I just don't think it's something manufacturers are necessarily focused on doing.
4. Completely agree that 6S benefits are often misconstrued by influencers that don't line up with the real world. 100% agree with you that 6S is not noticeably more efficient than 4s, so if you're getting longer flight times on 6S, it's almost certainly because you're using newer and/or batteries with more working amp hours. 6S DOES help with sag though.
I do think you should honestly setup and use mAh drawn. It is a useful stat to have, as it can help you identify packs for example that are suspect. If you sag into the 3.6V per cell for example on a 6s 1100mAh pack, and you've only drawn say 500mAh, that's a great way to detect that your battery potentially has a problem.
Also, you mentioned if you want more flight time, you'll just get a bigger pack. That keep in mind also has tradeoffs. For one, they're more expensive. The bigger issue though is they're heavier, so you're not gonna have apples to apples flight performance.
Yes, there's dumb luck with packs, sure, just like rolling dice, but as you roll the dice more and more, or buy more and more packs, it's without a doubt that you'll have more failures over time with 6S over 4S packs, assuming all other variables are the same (battery quality, care for the batteries, etc.)
If you buy 6S packs thinking you'll get more recharge cycles out of them than 4s, you've probably made a mistake. About the only thing 6s will do is reduce sag during flights from the first flight on the pack to the last, so it's possible 6s might keep the acceptable performance for you longer.. But the cells degrade just like they do in 4s beyond that. And, as I said, since 6s packs are just statistically more likely to fail, it's probably a wash.
in your opinion, should i start off (as a beginner) with 4s or 6s?
I went 6s with my first 5” quad. So far so good!
Same here
I fly both- I like the 6s power for my heavyweight quads but tend to fly 4s more on the smaller quads bc battery management is a little easier. The 4s batteries I use are smaller, lighter and charge faster. Plus the 4s battery charger I have is significantly smaller than the 6s charger so when I travel I take the 4s rigs.
do you travel by flight with your gear or just driving? im curious if I can travel by flight with my quad
One note for the people thinking of switching from 4s to 6s: if the only dealbreaker is that you would need to buy motors rated for 6s, you can just simply lower your throttle input in betaflight CLI. So unless your fc, esc isn't rated for 6s, you just need a 6s battery, change some things in betaflight and you are good to go. The feeling will be pretty much the same as flying a 6s rig....as far as I know😃
I think for beginners a 6s quad flown with 4s battery are perfekt, Sometimes when I want a long cruise I put on a bigger 4s. (1800mah 4s and normally 1050mah 6s)
I did this for my brand new mate. He bought a 6s setup and is running it on 4s, perfect for a beginner. Then when ya get good!
6inch 4s on 1700-1800kv motors is a nice cruiser that can still flare at the bottom of a dive and catch itself very quickly.
I’m just getting into the fpv hobby but been playing with rc trucks and DJI drones for years. My first 5” build is a 6S setup. 1700kv motors with F7 FC and T-motor 4-in-1 esc. Almost got it built. Should be flying this week sometime
Awesome! What frame?
ORT BBX stingy V2 forged carbon. Probably go with the mr Steele alien next time. But I like the frame. Seems great
Nice dude, I believe steele flys the apex now
ORT BBX yeah your right. That’s probably the next frame I will buy. Can’t wait to fly it tomorrow. Getting it setup and programmed now. Fpv rocks. Way more challenging than DJI and I love a challenge.
Awesome dude, just ask if you need any help, I've built and setup a few quads, so if something goes wrong just ask here lol
changing to 6s was best thing ever for me, but it depends on your flying. just freestyle around and i dont think 6s brings you much, but flying what i do mostly is chasing stuff. in this 6s made huge difference! now i can keep up with cars and motorcycles for the whole pack.
Yeah guys you missed the big point of 6s. Less current draw.(at fitting kv) No need for 100 x packs anymore.
That's also why houses run on 120v not on 12v. Less amps for same power resulting in less heatloss and overall better efficiency
Good to see Jeff's face! He always offers my favorite explanations
More of this guy! I love his no-nonsense, no-hype approach! Very informative video and GREATLY appreciated. That's ALL-CAP GREATLY!!! No Kap. ;)
I’m a noob and I’m happy with 3s at the moment.. soon to go 4s. I’ll prob be happy there..for a while 💫🧚🏻♀️🤘🏼
Just go straight to 6s. Blow your mind lol
Just went 5s, feel it's best of both worlds.
I have flown 4S for almost a year now, i just build a new Armatton Rooster build, and went with 6S. I have 1800kv motors, and i absolutely love flying 6S on it for more punchy flights, but i also fly 4S on it, and get a more mooshy flight, but it is still a very nice flight experience. 6S all the way!!!
Just started FPV at the start of July and I’m happy I went with 6s. A little more expensive batts but much better feel
I just started flying, I got my qav already built I just assume the components are only rated for 4s & binded to a frsky radio but as a nuby still learning I wanted 6s but I was to anxious to to build my own rig.
If you know this is a hobby you gonna do for a long time then get what you want weather it's 4s or 6s. Who cares just have fun
Bro I just crashed 2 motors and a battery pack so I decided to make the jump to a 6s setup and now I am just waiting for the parts to arrive. Amazing timing of this vid! Thanks!!! Keep it up!
I built a 6s rig and nearly doubled my flight times. Didn't expect such a dramatic result. But when these batteries hit 3.5v per cell, they drop like a rock. The constant power throughout the flight is fantastic.
Wait a Minute, im so confused right now, I come from Rc Cars, (I ohne an Arrma Kraton exb with 6s) I charge my Lipo Batteries to 4,2V per cell and discharge them to 3,3-3,4v per cell. Why doesn't this dude only discharge them until 3,8v? This is in Germany the storage capacity (so called the Nennspannung) I'm so confused, or do the US guys run different lipos 🤔
My experience is: if you really want it, you can get a lot of flight time out of both but the avarage consistant power of 6S is a real benefit. The only downside is, you should be carefull at the "end" of the battery because its droping volts really quickly and you might damage it. Keep up your great work dudes !
I was probably the last person in my racing group to migrate to 6S, and there's no going back now, it's THAT much better. And it's not really about more top-end power or longer flight time. To me it's really about the difference in throttle feel, response. Night and day. Really. Feels so much more "direct" with 6S. My 4S setup was sharp but until I tried 6S, I simply didn't know what I was missing out. When you punch throttle, it just responds so much faster, so much more direct. The best I can describe is, pushing on a rubber band with some slack vs. super tight rubber band
I am using 5s on a 7 inch quad. Running smooth as butter
You can go waaay lower on a 4S battery. In my experience ~14.2V is okay (~3.5V per cell). A 3.7V LiPo cell is considered empty at 3.5V and fully charged at 4.2V. 3.7V is the nominal/average voltage. Not the minimum voltage. You could even go down to 3V per cell but that could be damaging to the cell. It's really the absolute minimum. It's perfectly fine to discharge a 4S LiPo down to 14.2V. You just shouldn't really push it any further. If you stop at 14.2V it will recover and perfectly level itself at its storage voltage around 3.7V.
I think I may have landed some sort of coincidence that made my quad really efficient. Admittedly, I also don't fly ridiculously fast and don't do flips and stuff like that, but on a 4S 1500mAh LiPo, I can easily crack 12 minutes of flight time. Around 10 minutes at 1400mAh.
interesting flight times. whats your setup/rigg?
I love you guys so don’t take this the wrong way. It is always refreshing to listen to “we are not the test guys, we’re the fun guys” talk about technical things from a subjective point of view. Drives me crazy sometimes though. I love the “fun” part, but please figure out what e=ir and p=ei=isquared(r) to help with your explanations. Like the soldering as you say, it’s not really that difficult. I’m interested in knowing how do the esc’s drive a motor. Does it apply full voltage but “throttle” how much time it is or isn’t applied or does it “throttle” the actual voltage amount? The actual dynamics of “ripping” the quad means it would take a calculus professor to completely quantify what is actually happening, which would be fun but in a totally different kind of way, lol. Steady state throttle though to spin up a prop and leave it you could figure out how long it would continue to spin at that setting by measuring the current and voltage the motor is seeing. Of course nobody flys that way so it is like driving your car sometimes you push the gas a little and sometimes you smash it to the floor. Drive like a jack rabbit and your fuel use increases giving you less mpg as opposed to driving like granny does to church on Sundays and your fuel mpg goes up quite a bit. So in your quad your battery is the tank. It only holds so much juice. If you expend it rapidly you flight time suffers. If you fly slower you still have the same amount of energy available but since you are not flooring the accelerator and using at high speed it lasts longer=> longer flight time. BTW I’m pretty sure you can get a 4s battery which holds the exact or even more energy than a 6s battery, why anyone would have done this could be for many reasons, but there you go.
What where the battery specification? Using a 1400ma 6s so was the 4s 2100ma? Otherwise it's not an apple apple comparison. And 1800kv motors on 6s is 2700kv 4s equivalent but in the test they are comparing it with way lower kv 4s motors. This is happening in every 4s vs 6s comparison.... Not apple apple comparison.
Exactly!!! Most drone guys aren't real rc hobbyists and don't understand the theory behind volts and kv's.
Well its easely calculatable, a 1400Mah 6s (that's a huge battery but anyway) would be times 6 devided by 4 to get the 4s equivalent. Which is 2100Mah yeah
2.1Ah * 3.7V * 4 = 31Wh
1.4Ah * 3.7V * 6 = 31Wh
Same capacity.
@@nickli1564 This guy knows whats up ^
@@justfpv1432 And 6/4 is 1.5, so you can just use 1.5 as a multiplier to compare any kv motor or battery from 4S to 6S. :)
5s is where it's at.
Yep. I've committed to it. Slowly transitioning and now Half my LiPo's are 5s. Them 6s Blaster motors going to seal the deal for my Butter Kwad now that I'm over my destruction phase of learning. 🤘😉
If you're gonna go to 6s also make sure your props can handle it. You dont need them snapping off in mid flight from the extra torque like what happened to me.
I just finished my first 6s quad last week, I'll never look back at 4s.. it sucks 6s batteries cost more but the lack of voltage sag alone made it work the switch
i totally agree with drew at the end. if you want more flight time, and your components can handle it, components and firmware is getting so goood. you can get away with running a 5s and a 10%cut if you want more time, or no cut just crusing. thats all i do, never had a issue 2207-2500kv, plus 4s is generally lighter AUW.
One downside I didn't see you mention for beginners is that if you are going to be crashing a ton and possibly destroying the batteries spending a fortune on high quality 6s batteries will hurt a lot more. If you are starting out and want 6s stick to the cheaper lines (my favorite less expensive 6s is pyrodrone 1100mAh) until you don't crush them anymore
i got PDEVX skyliner set up for 6s , i got skyliner for 4s set up, i have vanover 4s and 6s set up too. i use the diffrent ones depending on the spot , if its new , if im super used to it, if i like the super light build , or if i love the weight to huck and let the weight carry me into a trick rather than just power into the next trick. so im fortunate enough to have a little extra income to have a wider array of gear but i did the same when i rode BMX, or surfed, etc... somedays when its windy you want the heavy kwad so you can stay on line without worrying about tightening your sticks , idk i tried 6s after starting on 4s and slowly started jumping back and forth depending on conditions. so do what you want , and sometimes just do stuff to annoy other ppl and make it sound like you have a legit reason for doing it whiel having a self laugh lol
What about 5s? Are we gonna skip that?
It's not really a thing like 4S and 6S. I've seen 5S batteries, but I've never seen anything else rated for 5S. i.e. if something can do 5S, it can also do 6S, so I'd just call it "running 5S batt on 6S gear"
@@friendlynomad9840 wrong. A 6s motor is a lower kv than one that can only handle 5s. You're only referring to the fc and esc.
It is like windows 9
@@vampcaff Can you find a 5S motor or a component that has a max input voltage of 21V?
I flew 5s for a year or so. The real difference is between 4 and 6s imo
It’s Ja Boi! VORT3X 😃
Dude we miss you 🙌😎
And yeah been on 6S for about a year now and it’s awesome!
Miss you too!
Great video
Personally, I split the difference and run a 5s so i can have a slightly higher mAh battery and lower KV. Voltage sag is a little less and I definitely see the desire of 6S for some.
Feels like a lot of pilots adopted running 6S from racing and skipped 5S but I wanna give it an honest try for freestyle before hopping to 6S.
Whatever you're flying doesn't matter as long as you're flying
It seems like there are very few people that fly 5s why is that
nice video. i am currently on 6s with 1700kv but flown 6s with 2650kv le drib motors on kiss esc. so much fun....
i startet half a year ago on 4s freestyle...but im getting more into racing so once my 4s packs are DEAD, i will make the switch no question. love the Video and to see Vortex again :D
You can change your motor power in BetaFlight for 6S so you can try it without needing new motors
Add a test with 6S battery and 4S motors with throttle scaling in Betaflight configuration. This seems a way for many who have 6S batteries, only 4S motors left from previous years and can't upgrade to 6S motors at once. Mine case exactly :)
My first bird that I just got the other day is the Bang God with Brother Hobby 2507/1850 and I have the Massive Droner on the way with a BabyHawk II HD coming. So I have both 6s and 4s
If the electronics can handle 6s, you can set up the quad to work with both batteries, 4s and 6s. I have a quad with 6s motors, and that one is useless on 4s battery, but i also have a "hybrid" with 4s motors and a throttle limit for 6s, and i can fly normally with both types of batteries.
Very true. That concept didn't really fit into what we were trying to do with this video, but we should also cover that at some point.
It feels like this video has been made specifically for guys like myself. I was in fact playing with the dilemma. I got a fully built and smooth flying 4S TBS Source One with a AUW 660gramms 1400mAh 4S including a RunCam5. I got Xing 2306 2450KV motors (no good for 6S) and individual max.4S ESCs running DShot600. After watching this video I only need some more 4S packs BUT not a new set of motors and 4in1 32bit esc.
If you're running betaflight just use the throttle scale to run 6s, no need to replace motors.
@@2strokeme64 that is true but a 2450KV motor has different winding than a 1800KV motor has - meaning I got less torque but more rpm. So I would end up with less torque as well and the heat on the stators kill the magnets on the long run. Stayin' with the 4S packs I got (8pcs) for a while. ;)
You can also put a 6S lipo on your 4S motor quad and put a motor output limit into beta/kiss/fl1/emu😉
Yeah but those motors aren't designed for that and I'm sure there is a catch to that. Otherwise 6s motors wouldn't exist right?
@@justfpv1432 only real catch is that you will have slightly higher amp draw. Unlikely to hurt anything as long as you have good quality ESCs and limit it to a sensible output. It isn't the best way but if you want to slowly accrue batteries before you buy motors and can't afford to jump all at once it definitely works fine. You can also set it up to auto switch profiles in BF 4.2 depending on which battery you plug in to make it even easier to ride out the transition period.
@@justfpv1432 the motors arent rated for 6s but with the motor output limit they make the same rpm as on 4s so you can fly 6s on 4s motors.
I do this for a couple of months now and it works fine
Before i fly 5s of 4s motors without a motor output limit and it works fine.
I am slowly buying 6s lipos and fly it on my 4s motors untill i have enough lipos and then i switch over to 6s motors just because i dont have enough money to switch all my 7 quad over at ones😉
i would love 6s. but just upgraded my motors on 2 qwads. so sticking to 4s for now
I'm just happy to see Jeff.
I just bought the diatone f5 6s freestyle PNP and you got a battery bundle for me ☺
Cool flying. Loved the video. But I just want to comment ( me being a total noob ) for me a beginner would be asking 'which whoop to start with , or at least which small 3inch shall I get' . 4S , let alone 6S to me sounds like 'experienced flying', godmode level.
If one wants to go for efficiency then 22V x 12A x 4 (nr of ESC) is already 1056W. So if you can find light 12A 6S ESC, smaller wires, connectors, low kv motors, light 6S battery you can get some weight benefit smaller amps allow. Some 6S ESCs are like 50A with thick wires, that is useless weight if want to go for efficency IMHO.
Thanks so much with the soldering
BF4.2 has vbat sag compensation that gives a more consistent throttle response as voltage drops and it works really well. More consistent throttle response was for me the big advantage of 6S, so right now, I’ll just stick to my 4S gear.
Correct. Same here. Vbat sag on. There is really no need for 6s. Still just a hype to make more money... 4s is perfect in any kind.
Im stays at 4S. I flew my 6S colleague and I don't have to pay twice as much to gain 30 seconds or a minute. At least for now.
Well starting off you should probably go 6s right
I'm with ya on that! My 4s works awesome, and its cheap. If I want more power, throw a 5s on.
that's the one thing holding me back is the expensive batteries.
@@MachuPichuu Expensive as in 10 percent more expensive. 4s and 6s aren't far apart in price anymore. I'd rather have 5, 6s packs than 6, 4s packs, for exemple
If you typically use midrange or higher quality products than the difference between 4s and 6s is negligible. Sure you CAN build a 4s cheaper than the cheapest possible 6s but I personally don't feel like you should. My personal philosophy in quads is that I'd rather have a few high quality quads rather than many cheap quality ones. I made the switch to 6s and haven't looked back.
As a diesel guy and knowing Drew is a car guy I can't believe he didn't go for the horsepower vs torque argument. 6s has way more torque and that means more power but also more wear on parts, but 4s means moderately worse torque vs less wear on parts. You add more git' er done to parts and wear faster but that's not the only way to get what you want. You blow the Cummins at 3K and 650HP vs the Civic at 13K and 750HP.
Just like F1 can't tow a damn thing but NASCAR can out tow daddy's powerstroke, 4s will make less actual power but 6s will own it all but you best be ready for the rebuild.
I even moved 6s on a 3”. Worth it.
Been flying all types from 6s to 1s for years. I prefer light frames with 60 degrees of angle (lots of speed), so 6s is usually my choice.
4s Freestyle and 6s for racing. But slowly headed to 6s everywhere. Just picked up the blaster and battery deal. One step closer to 6s in all my quads. Lol
LOVE THE SHIRT!!!! ❤️❤️❤️❤️
Very helpful thanks staying with 4S just bought a bunch of 4S but maybe in future thanks Guys
i have a solder sucker that i love its like a turkey baster on a iron far as de soldering...I love 6 s
I'm surprised you guys aren't flying 6s. I won't get into a 4s vs 6s debate, as YT is filled with those videos, but in my opinion 6s has many advantages over 4s. I fly both, but definitely prefer 6s! I've seen deals on 6s for a pack of 3 1300mah @$77, that's not bad!
I started on 6s, went to 4s, now I fly both
Why did you go to 4s?
@@norb4152 sometimes precise control > throttle
4s is nice and cheap, less cells to damage, also limit risk of frying 6s ESC on 4s..
The motors looks super nice
Let’s see change KV to make it same rpm as 4S , after additional weight for 2 more sales no noticeable increased flight time. No thank you! Batteries seems to be biggest expense. Thanks for helping make it clear. Staying 4S for now.
This video should have came out 2 years ago...
Right because everyone that flies drones has been doing it for years...
@@vampcaff No, that's not the point. This video should have indeed come out 2 years ago. This 4s vs 6s is irrelevant because 6s is just better in almost every way. The video should have come out 2 years ago because thats when the whole 4s vs 6s debate started. Also beginners can just watch a 2 year old video, they dont need a new one
That was when the transition gained interest, but I’ve only now seen a burst in 6S friendly products from companies.
What a troll
@@justfpv1432 Wouldn't have helped either. The same physical and electrical laws applied two years ago as today. In short: there is no advantage with 6S in terms of flight time. Just more power. But do beginners need this?
More Jeff masterclasses!!
When Drew three his brand new battery to the pavement Jeff’s look was like, Dam I might can save that battery, nope not now
I thought you could run 4S batteries down to 14V? Thats what I do xD
You can run a 4s down to 12.8 as long as the cells don't drop below 3.2 volts. But even if the cell dips below 3.2 it rebounds back. I've flown a 4s down to 11.8 and the battery is still fine.
I aim for 14v, and they recover to 14.2v. Plus, I must fly like a wuss because I regularly get 6 minutes (5", 4s, 2400kv eco motors)
@@LinuzoFPV 15.2v to 15.4v is storage voltage for 4s
One good thing about 6s is you can damage 2 cells and remove them and have a good 4s. I knocked a hole in one cell. Now I'm flying a 5s.
Fly your own with output limits. I did that with Cricket's motors when I went to 6s.
i have a quad thats 2700kv and i run 6s with no limit and it rips!!!!
Yeah but resolution for freestyle is gonna be shit. That shits not gonna last long 😂😂😂
I fly xing 2450kv on 5s..and if your starting out get low kv motors and run 4s until you get the hang of it then upgrade to 6s.
6s alllllll the way 👍👍
i fly drones for fun and not for cinematics, drone flying for me is to relieve some stress heck i dont even fly with gopro or any action cam
I'm just getting started! Idk what to go for lol
As a solar installer I'm gonna have to say you can't charge 24v with 12v. You can however charge the cells separately. Like if I have a 24v battery bank made from 2 12v batteries in series I can use 2 12v battery chargers or change the batteries from series to parallel and use one charger @ 12v. Which is what a balance charger is doing. If you sent 12v into a 6s battery via the xt60 it will not charge. My 24v battery bank made from 4x 12v batteries 2x series in parallel charges at 29.6 in bulk absorption mode, and floats at 27.2. full resting voltage is 25.6.
My 2c worth
A charger can have a boost converter (step-up converter) to up the voltage from 12V power supply input to charge a 6S.
@@rcandcnc9684 that's not charging with 12v, that's using a buck converter. You will still be charging at o we 24v
You should try with the same motors. 4 vs 6s.
Flight time means everything... we all wanna be in the air longer!!!! Really does depend on flying style though! If you only rip for 2min on a track, might be worth it.
I’m waiting for racers to get so technical they put the smallest possible battery on. Like auto racers who calculate exactly how much fuel will be needed to keep poll position after the last pit stop. That’s when shits gonna get crazy
AbnormallyNormal // most pro racers already do this. I suck at racing, and I built a sub 250g powered by a 650mah 4s battery. It’s balls to the walls for 3 minutes, problem is batt sag
You guys also have freestyle quads that are stupid heavy. I like to freestyle with the Hawk Pro which comes in around 300 grams. 6S has me seeing a minimum of 5 minute flight times.
Been missing Ja BOOIIIIII Vort3x, hope you been healthy buddy, looks like you dropped a bunch of weight :]
I'm a 4S holdout :D
thnak!
I like the idea of 6s in that it can be more efficient depending on your battery to motor combo, you can get more flight time and some aren’t as loud. But it took my forever to get a 5s battery... cause of the cost and other reasons. But I love my 4s 1550mah batteries. I just stared getting 1309 5s batteries lol. More flight time would be great but having to change all my gear .. ehhhhhhhh lol
Flying 4S at the moment, and I have to agree with Drew. It is not something that holds back my flying in any way whatsoever. Maybe after I get to a point where I'm pulling insane tricks in quick succession I will notice some sag I could've avoided with 6S, but it is absolutely not a concern of mine right now.
There's one point I would have liked to hear more about though. Given that the amp draw is generally lower for a 6S battery per cell, do these batteries last longer? Would love to hear from someone who has experience using both!
Yes actually. If you think about it, having more cells to hold up the voltage will make them sag less. And everyone knows a cell that dont go undet 3.5 is a happy cell
@@justfpv1432 exactly, seems that might be a good 'pro' for the 6S batteries as well
I think his 4S battery was definitely old and abused and the 6S super fresh...
I get an easy 8-9 minutes just slow cruising on my 4S 1500mah setup.
Amazing video. Perfectly explained.
I'm looking at getting a drone and find it hard to find 6s parts so I'll be getting 4s and upgrade down the line if I want too
if im flying a heavy setup 6s all the way, but if you want more flight time just get a 1500 mha or more battery, i know 6 s is abit more efficient but 2 times the price for the battery plus you need a beefier charger to charge the 6s, unlike regular chargers that can easily go up to 4s
There’s another advantage with 6S over flight time. 6S setups resists sag way more than a 4S system. That allows for hardcore flying all the way up the end of your battery life
@@air-headedaviator1805 thats true! the big advantage is it doesnt have that much sag,just depends how you fly, im still a nooby and fly for fun so i really dont mind unlike people who do it in dangerous places who need that extra voltage
What size 4s batteries were you running Jeff?
A 6s 1400mah (what you were using on the quad, not 1300’s you are selling in the kit) has about the equivalent energy density as a 2100mah 4s battery doesn’t it?
The 1300 6s has about the energy density of a 1950mah 4s battery.
You should be getting good flight times.... until you cane it. 😁
Hope to start using 6s as soon as i can!
My Black Series 1100 CNHL batteries are arriving this coming Thursday! They said it's the best battery! I don't know if that's true. I will find out. I also noticed you were using DJI goggles. What do you think about latency, is it fixed?
i fly 4S down to 13.8V :D
Well, you can fly 4S down to 13.2V - 3.3V/cell is LiPos' actual minimum, but I guess the reason people tend to stop at 3.6 V/cell is because if they're a distance away when it hits 3.3V, then they're in trouble if they still want to fly back. And as these guys found out the hard way, under 3.3V LiPo voltage drops extremely quickly.
Great information Sir. If I upgrade my quad to 2306/1755Kv motors. Which mAh 6s battery should I use? TQ
With 4S i alwasy fly them to 13V never had a Problem
I just try on my quad. 2 profile 4s n 6s with 4s motor 2750kv. 6s motor limit to 1850kv. My quad more heavy and flight time same. The motor look like struggle to punch.
i get 4-7 minutes on 6s ripping hard. doing full throttle speed burst and huge powerloops
The two main points made for 6s in this video don't really make sense to me:
- Can 6s really be noticable more efficent then 4s, since efficencies in a system are multiplied? So the whole thing propably boils down to 1-2%?
- The dip in voltage at the end is still the same in term of voltage/kv ratio? So it's still the same drop in RPM?
Moreover people advertising 6s as more flight time often compare 6s 1300 mAh to 4s 1550 mAh. Thats a 200g vs 1800g lipo. Or better compared to a 4s 1800mAh. Looking at this fact it's easy to notice where the lower preceived voltage sag comes from. The two main points boil down to:
- Use of better quality cells in 6s lipo -> therefore the increased price. You can always just buy higher quality 4s lipos to get the same
- Most importantly, the fact that higher capacitly lipos also have a higher maximum amp draw. Just fly a 1800mAh 4s and you will see the same effect.
In my opinion there's 0 difference... Maybe 1-2% are worth it for racing. Definitly not for us casuals.
i started on 6s and find the only drawback i found was the price of the batteries. the motors are the same price and why not get a little more power for pulling out of dives
Do they mention what size battery the 4S is? Because the 6S is 1400mAh which would be roughly the same capacity as a 2100mAh 4S battery and I really doubt they used a 4S that large. I'm pretty sure you actually fly LESS time on the same Wh with 6s vs 4S.
Good video. We all miss Vortex
My question is… What size packs did you use for both 4S and 6S? You do know you gotta go with a higher mAh 4S pack to match the total capacity of the 6S pack right?