A guy about in his 50’s bore his testimony yesterday. In his testimony he basically was saying “We wait for what the prophet tells us to do” I thought no! We follow his counsel but we are never waiting for the boat to come and rescue us, we search, pray, and ponder ourselves. Nephi even had to pray to know that Lehi was right about leaving Jerusalem. We have to know all things for ourselves!
This one struck home for me, I just started going to the local Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints up here in Canada, And the missionaries told me about your channel, love your shows.
Should members of other religions approach contradictions in their religion the same way’ by studying it out and listening for the good feelings of the spirit? What if a Catholic feels like the trinity is a contradiction, but studies and prays and feels like the lord has answered their question, and they’ve decided that the contradiction is there to test their faith? What if a Muslim is concerned that Muhammad married a 9-year-old? What if a Jehovah’s Witness is concerned that Christ didn’t come when it was prophesied according to their religion? Wouldn’t this approach keep them mired in what would be considered false beliefs by the LDS church? Does this method get us to truth? Doesn’t this kind of reasoning allow for anyone to stay in any religion whether it’s false or not, since contradictions ultimately don’t matter? How can we know when a contradiction means something deeper, like that maybe our basic assumptions about the truthfulness of the our religion could potentially be wrong? How many contradictions, and of what kind, would we need in order to know that we held a false belief?
You're operating from the premise that the Holy Spirit does not exist, and does not lead you towards truth, when the point of the subject is that the Holy Spirit IS the guiding light towards truth. Though that depends on your ability to listen well and in good faith (I mean, like in the phrase " operating In good faith"). So long as you're honestly seeking the truth with an open mind and lean on the spirit, the idea is that you'll be guided where you're intended to go. We're talking about matters of spirit here and dealing with the chaotic tangle of human interaction and history across thousands of years. Answers aren't always going to be obvious or self evident, and not all questions are of equal value. Ultimately what it comes down to is what happens when you put the belief in practice. In my case I've had an Apostle of the Church speak at a meeting I very nearly did not go to speak the same words and phrases right back at me as if perfectly replying to my conversation I had earlier that day when speaking with a parent on why I didn't feel comfortable in Institute or with the Young Single Adults, and in general. There is no chance that they would have said those things normally. It was truly as though they were speaking directly at me, or rather God through them as is their role, like God heard me. This is after I felt like I was having a heart attack and was falling asleep slumped over in my chair with discomfort and very heavy eyes. Not giving up, I prayed to be better and to be alert to hear the talks of the speakers. Immediately I felt better, the pain leaving my chest and my mind fresh, right as the apostle got up to speak. So yeah. I have faith in this church, in the holy ghost, in God, and in Christ. I struggle with feeling like I'm worth anything, but apparently I was worth being spoken to almost directly like that. It's a comfort.
Straw man argument you made, but I'll answer that this way: First of all Christ is the one who told us how to find all truth, and that is by asking Him, and he would answer us by the power of the Holy Ghost. John 14:26, Matthew 7:7,8, James 1:5. The only dilemma on our part is how to recognize the spirit. That can be covered in another topic. It's also worth remembering that God is NOT the author of confusion. 1 Cor.14:33
Confirmation bias does not of itself bring peace. It brings direction, but not peace to a heart. Only the Spirit can bring the sort of peace and joy that comes with the answers it provides. That is how we can distinguish between what we think is true and what we know is true. If that is not enough, then what will be? To have one's body healed by the power of God will not be enough for someone who does not seek His peace. Nothing will be enough for someone who is not content with God has already given him.
All of the hosts have amazing insights and I learn a lot from all of them, but I agree with you; Kwaku has an ability to help you understand a broader view.
Well, I have to say that while I appreciate the effort of everyone involved in this episode, it was kind of a let down after the great episode on the Kinderhook plates. This episode seems to only superficially touch on the topic of contradictions. Basically it was boiled down to: If there are contradictions, just have faith and stay with what the Church teaches. It would have been great if you actually looked at some of the contradictions and gave your thoughts and beliefs regarding them. What is interesting to me is contradictions between the scriptures and modern Church teachings. For example the scriptures(D&C 89) teach that the revelation is not to be a commandments, yet today we teach that it is a commandment. D&C 119 states that tithing is first a giving of all one's surplus, followed every year thereafter by giving ten percent of one's interest. However, today the Church teaches to give ten percent of your income. The modern Church teaches that the Sabbath is on Sunday, yet the Scriptures affirm it is on the seventh day(Saturday). The list goes on and on. I noticed you tried to cover this base by speaking against the idea that the scriptures are perfect. But you don't have to believe the scriptures are perfect. You just have to believe that God's word is in the scriptures, and that God meant what he said, for these contradictions to stick out. God is not the author of confusion, so He's not going to set up contradictions just to be a test of faith. On the topic of contradicting Church leaders, you acted like people get the assumption that Brigham Young is always right from some "random guy". This is very disingenuous. We are taught IN CHURCH that Church leader's speak for the Lord. Only lip service is given to prophets to prophets being fallible. Yet there is NEVER any circumstance when it is considered acceptable for a President of the Church to be wrong. (Except, when someone reads Church History and reads something that Brigham Young said. Oh, then Church leaders can be wrong. But the current Church leaders aren't wrong.) You're just shaming people for coming to logical conclusions based on what they were taught. I recall something I heard many years ago: "Catholics say the pope is infallible but don’t really believe it; Mormons say the prophet is fallible but don’t really believe it." If you are going to say that past Church leaders were wrong when they taught certain things, then by extension you must also allow for the current President of the Church to be wrong in some of the things he teaches. You can't logically have it both ways. Your examples of Christ performing miracles had ZERO relevance to the topic. We're talking about contradictions here, not people's preconceived notions being shattered by a miracle. But the idea that the miracles, Joseph's Seer Stones, Aarons rod didn't make any sense is a MODERN concept. Back then, those things made perfect sense. In the culture Joseph grew up in using seer stones wasn't weird, it made sense to those people. So it's not like God is using those tools to show he can accomplish things through weird methods. Those were used and understood tools at the times. Sorry guys, this episode was not one of your greats.
The united order wasn't lived fully so the higher law was removed. God will give me a lesser law just like Moses and the 10 commandments. He originally had a higher law, came down from the mountain , saw them worshipping a golden calf idol, broke the original law, went back and got the lesser law.
@@heatherluna5075 Thanks for your comment. I don't know if we can draw this conclusion for a couple of reasons. First Moses never gave the first law to the people, only he ever had it. So the people never had it revoked, they only ever received the second law. In regards to the United Order there was never a "lesser" law given to replace it. And the commandments are still there in our scriptures waiting for us to obey them.
Nice comment...I think consistency brings stability but trying to say contradiction bring stability is hilarious, I wonder how many people take contradiction over consistency when they catch a plane...
I believe that as time goes on from the time of Joseph Smith through all the Prophets that succeeded him, eternal and true lasting principles will continue move forward. Likewise, the opinions of men and the principles that are not correct or eternal will fall by the wayside. We can see that now. For example, take the Saints gathering to Missouri.. We have been told later that the Stakes of Zion are also gathering places and it's not necessary or even practical for the Saints in the world to all gather literally to Independence.
I can honestly say I've read things in the bible that angered me but I forced myself to keep reading and learned the context that I was missing. I'm still studying because there still upsetting things like Paul's dislike of women. But Paul is the reason for Luke receiving the teaching of christ and it's his book that I truly love. I have struggles but I want to know more so I study and pray.
@@TheSpindrift76 it's very difficult to judge history with a modern lens. Times and cultures were different. Luke emphasized women in his account and he was a companion of Paul. I don't believe Paul disliked women at all. I think there is context we are missing and cannot understand as we were not present nor raised in a culture very different from ours. I try to take the same cautious approach in LDS church history as well. We like to think that early church members and leaders should have behaved more in line with the values we hold today but they grew up in a very different world and if we've seen anything its that God will meet flawed and imperfect people where they are and work to make them better if they are willing.
I know that no one is perfect, but how can i be told that the Book of Mormon is the most true book on earth and still have it be inconsistent? And how can i be told to always follow the prophet when past prophets said wrong things?
I think the key word is 'most'. Both Nephi and Moroni warn that any errors are the fault of man and not God. Why give the warning if there was nothing to be warned against.
This reminded me of Rebecca Black's "Friday". People be hatin' on Rebecca because it's "cool". It got many millions of views. But if you listen to the song lyrics, they aren't bad. I mean, they aren't great, for sure, but they aren't encouraging.some great evil. There is a contradiction inherent in how people treat the girl and how they claim to live. One person had this to say: How bullying works 2011: made fun of her 2019: feeling bad for her It received hundreds of likes. People understand such contradictions sometimes exist, between behavior and ideals we claim to live up to. This is true of common people, this is true of prophets.
Right to who's perceptions we all have the right to grow up and change our opinions our perceptions..no one can be perfect according to their perceptions their understanding growth .
I'm so afraid that this church might not be true. I've been in the church since I was six years old. If the church isn't true I don't know how to go on. If God isn't real what's the point?
Anni, the Church is true. Your faith crisis is your opportunity to dig deeper. Keep watching Kwaku and friends, they really know their stuff. You are so blessed to have been in the true Church at such a young age.
Sometimes I feel the same. I was born into the church and have been trying to find my testimony. This past year has been especially difficult and what I've done is look into it as much as I can. I've read the Book of Mormon with the Bible next to me so I can check up on things/cross reference and, though it's been scary, I've asked questions. Don't forget to ask questions. The best thing you can do is learn as much as you can and look to church sources (If you're going to learn about a church, looking at anti-church material is going to dig as far as it can to drive you away because of their own falling away/unbelief/prejudices/etc.). Pray and ask God continually, not just once. Watch "Now You Know" videos posted by the church, or any of their videos really. Learn as much as you can and learn for yourself. (Luke 11:9-10) (3 Nephi 14:7-8; 27:29) (D&C 88:63-64) Also, look at what the church does. "By their fruits ye shall know them" (Matt 7:15-20) (3 Nephi 14:16-20). I don't know what I would do if I found out the church to not be true, but I do know that I'm not just going to listen to what others (especially outside the church) tell me. Sitting by isn't going to help me find out anything. I'm learning day by day. I don't know if this helped at all, but I hope you know that you're not alone and I'm praying for you and any others with me on this difficult journey to find truth.
Guys, the Mormon church could absolutely be false and God still be real. That's what I, and most evangelical Christians believe. Mormonism is appealing because it contains a lot of truth. But if you give up on the church, don't give up on God. I'm planning on posting some videos on mormonism on my channel soon, but I'm reading through the BOM first.
They didn't misunderstand Christ because HE was complex but rather he pointed out how complex THEY had made the law and his burden was genuinely light! He supported the law and adjured people to keep the law in its original context.
yes and no. He was the law. That's the real difference. He fulfilled the law because the law was given by him. You are right that they made the law too complex but they also saw the law as their salvation when really the law was to prepare and point them to him. When he came he fulfilled the law of Moses. It was not intended any longer to be kept in it's original context but they were expected to receive a higher law. The law of the gospel.
Our Heavenly Father or God allows all of us make mistakes to hopefully learn from them. Not only that the essence or purposes of life is growth and to become and to overcome. A baby can grow up and become an adult. We can grow up and become like our Heavenly Father. Also what may be true for a two year old may not be true for a thirty year old...also you can never be perfect according to everyone's expectations we are all at diferant levels of growth in growing up and becoming more.. love your program. Thanks .
PLEASE READ. "But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in my name that I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that same prophet shall die.’ And if you say in your heart, ‘How may we know the word that the Lord has not spoken?’- when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the word does not come to pass or come true, that is a word that the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously. You need not be afraid of him"-Deuteronomy 18:20-22
The essence or purposes of life is growth and to become and to overcome. What may be true for a thirty year old may not be true for a two year old. As.we grow up we change and our understandings are different .
I don't think actual contradictions are ok. Like, in Jacob 2, David and Solomon committed abomination by having so many wives. But in Doctrines and Covenants 132, God gave David his wives and he didn't sin.. 🤔
Practical Faith It’s really not a contradiction because in Jacob 2 He says that polygamy is bad unless he needs to raise up righteous see which makes perfect sense for Joseph Smith’s time.
@@RBD582 But it is a contradiction because he specifically says David and Solomon were wrong. And then he says they were not wrong. And did Joseph Smith really marry up to 40 women in order to raise up seed? He only had like 8 or 10 kids.
My son says that it is gross to think that when we are taking the sacrament it is like actually eating Jesus flesh and drinking his blood. I told him it was in remembrance but he still though that why do I want to eat Jesus
You can investigate what many faiths teach. What you should look into is what is Christ's gospel? and what is it's truths? Many pieces of truths can be found in most faiths, but Christ organized his church and teachings to help us understand his gospel, and find all truth by the power of the Holy Ghost. John 14:26. Christ never intended his church to be branched off of in so many ways. Ephesians 4:5.That is why he gave us it's organization Ephesians 4:11-14 to keep order. He called Prophets and Apostles to lead in his absence on the earth. Amos 3:7. Yes, you should pray and ponder about what truths you have learned, and ask God if it is true. James 1:5, Matthew 7:7-8, Moroni 10:3-5.
Have any active members considered the possibility that the BOM and Joseph are true but that it went too far? Or that Brigham Young took the church and tweaked it too much? It's possible that the GOSPEL was restored, but a church was never supposed to happen.
That's actually an interesting point about the miracles performed by Jesus written about in the New Testament. The miracles contradict our understanding of reality. But based on the previous logic in the video, who's to say that Jesus, who loved to speak in parables, didn't council his disciples to write parables about _his own_ life? How could you decipher which story was meant to be miraculous and which was meant to be parable? What if Jesus intended the atonement to be a parable for humanity? What if he intended all the talk of his relationship with "the father" to be metaphorical?
My faith crisis ive already shared with you... but a fun contradiction is that Mormons can't drink beer even though the WOW says barely is good for mild drinks
But GOD is perfection; who in His infinite wisdom appointed honorable, upright, faithful & trustworthy Messengers & prophets from amongst mankind to make clear His message. Men guided by spirit & truth whose mission being the proclamation of the ONENESS of God; “Hear O Israel, the Lord thy God is one” . Therefore God must be the source of clarity & truth not confusion, discrepancy & mystery. “Verily truth has come and falsehood has vanished; for falsehood is bound by its nature to vanish.”
@@NerdJake ...Yup, some walked away, but NOT the DISCIPLES (except for Judas)... They STAYED b/c Jesus had cleared up so many things before, they were sure, given enough time and trust, unclear things would become clear... Parables are good at separating the weak from the strong... Most parables were more easily understood, didn't cause ppl to walk away... But understanding.this parable was more difficult to do.. It was the one about drinking His blood and eating His flesh... Would YOU walk away? If you take the parable literally, you probably would... But it's not meant to be taken literally, in its physical connotation... It's meant to be taken SPIRITUALLY... Blood stands for God's TRUTH given in His Word (circulating throughout, and giving life wherever it goes), and flesh stands for LIVING God's truth, putting love into action...
So the way to resolve contradictions in the scriptures, the doctrine or in history goes as follows: Find out which truth claim contradicts the facts that you can then declare as not the real truth claim. Make it a parable or metaphor for a different truth claim. So what happens is you throw the original claim into ambiguity, do a little mental gymnastics, and come out the other side with a different claim that uses the original claim as the analogy for the new claim. In this way, you can claim that it's consistent with the way Jesus taught, which legitimizes you procedure as a principled way in which to change the claim, _and_ you resolve the contradiction. Now if you left the church because of two claims contradicting one another, then it's your fault for not following this ad hoc reasoning in order to resolve it in some way, in _any possible way,_ and then for not taking your contextualization as the gospel truth. And that's regardless of whether this fake claim in the scriptures or in history had been taught as the real claim for decades in the past by membership and leadership alike, and it wasn't until science or the internet caught up with it that the church started issuing this procedure to its members to keep them believing. And it's completely okay because god originally intended for these claims to be taken as metaphor or as a parable the entire time. We just didn't know that until the facts of reality manifest themselves. We're all just slowly learning which teachings in the church we can throw into ambiguity and transform into analogies for different claims. God revealed his secret to his servants the prophets, he just didn't tell them it was a secret.
What is being perfect complete. Christ Himself said when he was in the holy land. Be ye therefore perfect even as my Father and your Father in heaven is perfect complete. After Christ acention into heaven and his resurrection. When he came to visit some of our Heavenly Fathers children on this side of the world. Christ said be ye therefore perfect even as I and my Father in heaven. Truly the essence or purposes of life is growth and to become and to overcome. What may be true to a two year old may not be true for a thirty year old..when we grow up we change .
Opposition is necessary, but contradictions are not necessary. Where are you even justified in saying such false doctrine? We still need to have faith in the things that are NOT contradictory...not have to first choose what side of the contradiction we want and then go on to exercise faith. Thats ridiculous. Remember, God's not the author of confusion. So what side of the contradiction do you have faith in?...and since it's a contradiction, does it even matter? Christ didn't do contradictory things. He performed miracles . That's entirely different than 2 prophets who teach something different. You guys aren't making sense. It was a contradiction to scripture that Nephi kill Laban...but the Lord quickly and soundly provided Nephi with an answer, a teaching, a revelation that the contradiction was OK. He doesn't do that in modern times to individual church members about their observable church contradictions. That's why people struggle. Don't you get it? Quit summarizing everything with "just have faith". That doesn't work in the case of contradictions. Case in point, the Orson Pratt-Brigham Young controversies. Orson was actually expanding on the teachings of Joseph that B.Y. disagreed on. You are asking church members to choose a side and then exercise faith. Kwaku, as a democrat,...do you choose the views of Nancy Pelosi or AOC?...or just "have faith" and pick a side because opposition (or contradictions) in the Democratic party is good and necessary?
Actually, it wasn't a contradiction for God command Nephi to kill Laban. The more correct translation of "thou shalt not kill" is "thou shalt not murder." So while God did command Nephi to kill Laban, Nephi was not commanded to murder Laban. God being the author of the command made it lawful for Nephi to kill Laban and thus not murder.
@@MichaelEllisYT Thank you for your further clarification. That just proved my point even more. ... that there shouldn't exist any contradictions in the true church. Even the case of Nephi & Laban shows God doesn't allow for contradictions. It's all been properly defined. For these three kids to sit there and think they've miraculously cleared up decades old discussions and contradictions among church scholars, professors, general authorities, doctrine and policy, is absolutely ludicrous and what's sad is that every 20 something year old millennial will accept what they've said as truth without hitting the books, reading the thesis papers submitted to BYU and other colleges, looking deeply into all sides of the contradictions and realizing issues do exist.
How is presupposing prophets should be perfect different from presupposing Christ literally walked on water and rose from the dead? Would it be safer to eliminate as many presuppositions as possible? Just accepting what we have evidence to believe, maybe?
@Sean_S the presupposition according to Joseph is that Prophets are human and thus imperfect. As for Christ walking on water, rising from the dead etc those are witness testimonies that we can ask about and investigate while presupposing they are true. If you assume they are false they can never be proven true, but if you assume they are true there is the potential if they are false they can be proven so.
Luke Steele: What if you read a witness account, look at the reliability of the witness, whether their statements match what your own experience tells you is possible, then let further evidence help determine whether or not you believe it? Wouldn’t that minimize your own bias, as it would color further evidence?
Hello World! Can't you do any better than that? Wasn't that used by the original Mac commercial in 1984? How can the Church be true when it's leading defenders are lost in a time warp of old introductions?
The Holy Spirit would never contradict itself, there are numerous Bible verses on this. Mormon scripture contradicts the New and Old Testament an exorbitant amount of times, on huge issues. Don't trust yourself. Don't trust your heart. Don't trust your feelings. Trust the word of God, the old and new testament. It's trustworthy and without error. Complete and not in need of any additions or changes.
A guy about in his 50’s bore his testimony yesterday. In his testimony he basically was saying “We wait for what the prophet tells us to do” I thought no! We follow his counsel but we are never waiting for the boat to come and rescue us, we search, pray, and ponder ourselves. Nephi even had to pray to know that Lehi was right about leaving Jerusalem. We have to know all things for ourselves!
This one struck home for me, I just started going to the local Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints up here in Canada, And the missionaries told me about your channel, love your shows.
Should members of other religions approach contradictions in their religion the same way’ by studying it out and listening for the good feelings of the spirit? What if a Catholic feels like the trinity is a contradiction, but studies and prays and feels like the lord has answered their question, and they’ve decided that the contradiction is there to test their faith? What if a Muslim is concerned that Muhammad married a 9-year-old? What if a Jehovah’s Witness is concerned that Christ didn’t come when it was prophesied according to their religion? Wouldn’t this approach keep them mired in what would be considered false beliefs by the LDS church? Does this method get us to truth? Doesn’t this kind of reasoning allow for anyone to stay in any religion whether it’s false or not, since contradictions ultimately don’t matter? How can we know when a contradiction means something deeper, like that maybe our basic assumptions about the truthfulness of the our religion could potentially be wrong? How many contradictions, and of what kind, would we need in order to know that we held a false belief?
I think the important thing to remember is, there will be some contradictions in mortal life!
lds epistemology you are 100% spot on !
You're operating from the premise that the Holy Spirit does not exist, and does not lead you towards truth, when the point of the subject is that the Holy Spirit IS the guiding light towards truth. Though that depends on your ability to listen well and in good faith (I mean, like in the phrase " operating In good faith"). So long as you're honestly seeking the truth with an open mind and lean on the spirit, the idea is that you'll be guided where you're intended to go. We're talking about matters of spirit here and dealing with the chaotic tangle of human interaction and history across thousands of years. Answers aren't always going to be obvious or self evident, and not all questions are of equal value.
Ultimately what it comes down to is what happens when you put the belief in practice.
In my case I've had an Apostle of the Church speak at a meeting I very nearly did not go to speak the same words and phrases right back at me as if perfectly replying to my conversation I had earlier that day when speaking with a parent on why I didn't feel comfortable in Institute or with the Young Single Adults, and in general. There is no chance that they would have said those things normally. It was truly as though they were speaking directly at me, or rather God through them as is their role, like God heard me. This is after I felt like I was having a heart attack and was falling asleep slumped over in my chair with discomfort and very heavy eyes. Not giving up, I prayed to be better and to be alert to hear the talks of the speakers. Immediately I felt better, the pain leaving my chest and my mind fresh, right as the apostle got up to speak.
So yeah. I have faith in this church, in the holy ghost, in God, and in Christ. I struggle with feeling like I'm worth anything, but apparently I was worth being spoken to almost directly like that. It's a comfort.
Straw man argument you made, but I'll answer that this way: First of all Christ is the one who told us how to find all truth, and that is by asking Him, and he would answer us by the power of the Holy Ghost. John 14:26, Matthew 7:7,8, James 1:5. The only dilemma on our part is how to recognize the spirit. That can be covered in another topic. It's also worth remembering that God is NOT the author of confusion. 1 Cor.14:33
Confirmation bias does not of itself bring peace. It brings direction, but not peace to a heart. Only the Spirit can bring the sort of peace and joy that comes with the answers it provides. That is how we can distinguish between what we think is true and what we know is true.
If that is not enough, then what will be? To have one's body healed by the power of God will not be enough for someone who does not seek His peace. Nothing will be enough for someone who is not content with God has already given him.
Truth is truth, wherever you find it. All life comes from the sun. All life comes from The Son.
Great subject and great guest
Doubt your doubts before you doubt your faith.
no
Your videos are absolutely AMAZING!! I’ve been sharing with friends and family! Keep it up PLEASE🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼
That James Charles analogy was unexpected but perfect, I may use that sometime.
"The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?" Jeremiah 17:9
But the soul isn't
@@samuelthygerson6009 perfect reply
This is why I love Kwaku, he sees everything in a broader view. He's not only looking through the Scriptures.
Shiloh Boca he is a foolish teacher with no wisdom from God.
All of the hosts have amazing insights and I learn a lot from all of them, but I agree with you; Kwaku has an ability to help you understand a broader view.
@@KevlarX2 I love him!!!!
KevlarX2 He follows a false prophet, read the book of John and Galatians 🙏🏽
Shiloh Boca I Love The messiah, Jesus Christ.
Well, I have to say that while I appreciate the effort of everyone involved in this episode, it was kind of a let down after the great episode on the Kinderhook plates.
This episode seems to only superficially touch on the topic of contradictions. Basically it was boiled down to: If there are contradictions, just have faith and stay with what the Church teaches. It would have been great if you actually looked at some of the contradictions and gave your thoughts and beliefs regarding them.
What is interesting to me is contradictions between the scriptures and modern Church teachings. For example the scriptures(D&C 89) teach that the revelation is not to be a commandments, yet today we teach that it is a commandment.
D&C 119 states that tithing is first a giving of all one's surplus, followed every year thereafter by giving ten percent of one's interest. However, today the Church teaches to give ten percent of your income.
The modern Church teaches that the Sabbath is on Sunday, yet the Scriptures affirm it is on the seventh day(Saturday).
The list goes on and on. I noticed you tried to cover this base by speaking against the idea that the scriptures are perfect. But you don't have to believe the scriptures are perfect. You just have to believe that God's word is in the scriptures, and that God meant what he said, for these contradictions to stick out.
God is not the author of confusion, so He's not going to set up contradictions just to be a test of faith.
On the topic of contradicting Church leaders, you acted like people get the assumption that Brigham Young is always right from some "random guy". This is very disingenuous. We are taught IN CHURCH that Church leader's speak for the Lord. Only lip service is given to prophets to prophets being fallible. Yet there is NEVER any circumstance when it is considered acceptable for a President of the Church to be wrong. (Except, when someone reads Church History and reads something that Brigham Young said. Oh, then Church leaders can be wrong. But the current Church leaders aren't wrong.) You're just shaming people for coming to logical conclusions based on what they were taught.
I recall something I heard many years ago: "Catholics say the pope is infallible but don’t really believe it; Mormons say the prophet is fallible but don’t really believe it."
If you are going to say that past Church leaders were wrong when they taught certain things, then by extension you must also allow for the current President of the Church to be wrong in some of the things he teaches. You can't logically have it both ways.
Your examples of Christ performing miracles had ZERO relevance to the topic. We're talking about contradictions here, not people's preconceived notions being shattered by a miracle. But the idea that the miracles, Joseph's Seer Stones, Aarons rod didn't make any sense is a MODERN concept. Back then, those things made perfect sense. In the culture Joseph grew up in using seer stones wasn't weird, it made sense to those people. So it's not like God is using those tools to show he can accomplish things through weird methods. Those were used and understood tools at the times.
Sorry guys, this episode was not one of your greats.
The united order wasn't lived fully so the higher law was removed. God will give me a lesser law just like Moses and the 10 commandments. He originally had a higher law, came down from the mountain , saw them worshipping a golden calf idol, broke the original law, went back and got the lesser law.
@@heatherluna5075 Thanks for your comment. I don't know if we can draw this conclusion for a couple of reasons. First Moses never gave the first law to the people, only he ever had it. So the people never had it revoked, they only ever received the second law. In regards to the United Order there was never a "lesser" law given to replace it. And the commandments are still there in our scriptures waiting for us to obey them.
@@MichaelEllisYT Thanks. 💗💗💗💗💗💗💗
Nice comment...I think consistency brings stability but trying to say contradiction bring stability is hilarious, I wonder how many people take contradiction over consistency when they catch a plane...
I believe that as time goes on from the time of Joseph Smith through all the Prophets that succeeded him, eternal and true lasting principles will continue move forward. Likewise, the opinions of men and the principles that are not correct or eternal will fall by the wayside. We can see that now. For example, take the Saints gathering to Missouri.. We have been told later that the Stakes of Zion are also gathering places and it's not necessary or even practical for the Saints in the world to all gather literally to Independence.
Saints Unscripted churning out the best video topics 🙌🏻
I can honestly say I've read things in the bible that angered me but I forced myself to keep reading and learned the context that I was missing. I'm still studying because there still upsetting things like Paul's dislike of women. But Paul is the reason for Luke receiving the teaching of christ and it's his book that I truly love. I have struggles but I want to know more so I study and pray.
Paul doesn't dislike women. It's just that men and women have different roles in marriage and in the church.
@@jordanmay6153 that's what you read and I'm still studying and that is something I'm not sure on yet.
@@TheSpindrift76 it's very difficult to judge history with a modern lens. Times and cultures were different. Luke emphasized women in his account and he was a companion of Paul. I don't believe Paul disliked women at all. I think there is context we are missing and cannot understand as we were not present nor raised in a culture very different from ours. I try to take the same cautious approach in LDS church history as well. We like to think that early church members and leaders should have behaved more in line with the values we hold today but they grew up in a very different world and if we've seen anything its that God will meet flawed and imperfect people where they are and work to make them better if they are willing.
This channel is so important.
To teach what not to believe 😂
I love your intros David!! HELLO WORLD
I know that no one is perfect, but how can i be told that the Book of Mormon is the most true book on earth and still have it be inconsistent? And how can i be told to always follow the prophet when past prophets said wrong things?
I think the key word is 'most'. Both Nephi and Moroni warn that any errors are the fault of man and not God. Why give the warning if there was nothing to be warned against.
This reminded me of Rebecca Black's "Friday". People be hatin' on Rebecca because it's "cool". It got many millions of views. But if you listen to the song lyrics, they aren't bad. I mean, they aren't great, for sure, but they aren't encouraging.some great evil. There is a contradiction inherent in how people treat the girl and how they claim to live. One person had this to say:
How bullying works
2011: made fun of her
2019: feeling bad for her
It received hundreds of likes. People understand such contradictions sometimes exist, between behavior and ideals we claim to live up to. This is true of common people, this is true of prophets.
Right to who's perceptions we all have the right to grow up and change our opinions our perceptions..no one can be perfect according to their perceptions their understanding growth .
I'm so afraid that this church might not be true. I've been in the church since I was six years old. If the church isn't true I don't know how to go on. If God isn't real what's the point?
Anni, the Church is true. Your faith crisis is your opportunity to dig deeper. Keep watching Kwaku and friends, they really know their stuff. You are so blessed to have been in the true Church at such a young age.
Sometimes I feel the same. I was born into the church and have been trying to find my testimony. This past year has been especially difficult and what I've done is look into it as much as I can. I've read the Book of Mormon with the Bible next to me so I can check up on things/cross reference and, though it's been scary, I've asked questions. Don't forget to ask questions. The best thing you can do is learn as much as you can and look to church sources (If you're going to learn about a church, looking at anti-church material is going to dig as far as it can to drive you away because of their own falling away/unbelief/prejudices/etc.). Pray and ask God continually, not just once. Watch "Now You Know" videos posted by the church, or any of their videos really. Learn as much as you can and learn for yourself. (Luke 11:9-10) (3 Nephi 14:7-8; 27:29) (D&C 88:63-64)
Also, look at what the church does. "By their fruits ye shall know them" (Matt 7:15-20) (3 Nephi 14:16-20).
I don't know what I would do if I found out the church to not be true, but I do know that I'm not just going to listen to what others (especially outside the church) tell me. Sitting by isn't going to help me find out anything. I'm learning day by day.
I don't know if this helped at all, but I hope you know that you're not alone and I'm praying for you and any others with me on this difficult journey to find truth.
Could the church not be true, but god still be real?
Guys, the Mormon church could absolutely be false and God still be real. That's what I, and most evangelical Christians believe. Mormonism is appealing because it contains a lot of truth. But if you give up on the church, don't give up on God. I'm planning on posting some videos on mormonism on my channel soon, but I'm reading through the BOM first.
Read James 1:5-6 and ask God if the church is true. And never forget the feeling of the spirit
They didn't misunderstand Christ because HE was complex but rather he pointed out how complex THEY had made the law and his burden was genuinely light! He supported the law and adjured people to keep the law in its original context.
yes and no. He was the law. That's the real difference. He fulfilled the law because the law was given by him. You are right that they made the law too complex but they also saw the law as their salvation when really the law was to prepare and point them to him. When he came he fulfilled the law of Moses. It was not intended any longer to be kept in it's original context but they were expected to receive a higher law. The law of the gospel.
Keep it up, my friends :)
Our Heavenly Father or God allows all of us make mistakes to hopefully learn from them. Not only that the essence or purposes of life is growth and to become and to overcome. A baby can grow up and become an adult. We can grow up and become like our Heavenly Father. Also what may be true for a two year old may not be true for a thirty year old...also you can never be perfect according to everyone's expectations we are all at diferant levels of growth in growing up and becoming more.. love your program. Thanks .
PLEASE READ. "But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in my name that I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that same prophet shall die.’ And if you say in your heart, ‘How may we know the word that the Lord has not spoken?’- when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the word does not come to pass or come true, that is a word that the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously. You need not be afraid of him"-Deuteronomy 18:20-22
The essence or purposes of life is growth and to become and to overcome. What may be true for a thirty year old may not be true for a two year old. As.we grow up we change and our understandings are different .
I don't think actual contradictions are ok. Like, in Jacob 2, David and Solomon committed abomination by having so many wives. But in Doctrines and Covenants 132, God gave David his wives and he didn't sin.. 🤔
Practical Faith It’s really not a contradiction because in Jacob 2 He says that polygamy is bad unless he needs to raise up righteous see which makes perfect sense for Joseph Smith’s time.
@@RBD582 But it is a contradiction because he specifically says David and Solomon were wrong. And then he says they were not wrong. And did Joseph Smith really marry up to 40 women in order to raise up seed? He only had like 8 or 10 kids.
My son says that it is gross to think that when we are taking the sacrament it is like actually eating Jesus flesh and drinking his blood. I told him it was in remembrance but he still though that why do I want to eat Jesus
You can only look further into one church.....you can only have faith in one church.. you can only pray and feel about one church.
You can investigate what many faiths teach. What you should look into is what is Christ's gospel? and what is it's truths? Many pieces of truths can be found in most faiths, but Christ organized his church and teachings to help us understand his gospel, and find all truth by the power of the Holy Ghost. John 14:26. Christ never intended his church to be branched off of in so many ways. Ephesians 4:5.That is why he gave us it's organization Ephesians 4:11-14 to keep order. He called Prophets and Apostles to lead in his absence on the earth. Amos 3:7. Yes, you should pray and ponder about what truths you have learned, and ask God if it is true. James 1:5, Matthew 7:7-8, Moroni 10:3-5.
The prophet is still learning.........
Have any active members considered the possibility that the BOM and Joseph are true but that it went too far? Or that Brigham Young took the church and tweaked it too much? It's possible that the GOSPEL was restored, but a church was never supposed to happen.
💗💗💗💗💗💗💗💗💗💗
That's actually an interesting point about the miracles performed by Jesus written about in the New Testament. The miracles contradict our understanding of reality. But based on the previous logic in the video, who's to say that Jesus, who loved to speak in parables, didn't council his disciples to write parables about _his own_ life? How could you decipher which story was meant to be miraculous and which was meant to be parable? What if Jesus intended the atonement to be a parable for humanity? What if he intended all the talk of his relationship with "the father" to be metaphorical?
Ok folks But Didn’t J.C. thaught us to be like children to access heaven?
My faith crisis ive already shared with you... but a fun contradiction is that Mormons can't drink beer even though the WOW says barely is good for mild drinks
"Barley." I take that to mean Postum myself. 😂
@@KevlarX2 Postum didn't come on the market until 1895
@@devonblake731 i was being tounge in cheek but beer is a mild drink
@@coalhouse1981 What I said was a joke, thus the emoji.
@@KevlarX2 ahh sorry its clear that interpertion/enforcement on the WOW changed through the churchs history but that isnt why i lost my faith
But GOD is perfection; who in His infinite wisdom appointed honorable, upright, faithful & trustworthy Messengers & prophets from amongst mankind to make clear His message. Men guided by spirit & truth whose mission being the proclamation of the ONENESS of God; “Hear O Israel, the Lord thy God is one” . Therefore God must be the source of clarity & truth not confusion, discrepancy & mystery. “Verily truth has come and falsehood has vanished; for falsehood is bound by its nature to vanish.”
The guy in the middle looks like swalwell. The US representative that slept with the chinese spy-- fang fang. Lol!
How do you know people walked away when Jesus spoke in parables? I don’t remember that in the Bible
John 6:65 ff.
You're welcome.
@@NerdJake ...Yup, some walked away, but NOT the DISCIPLES (except for Judas)... They STAYED b/c Jesus had cleared up so many things before, they were sure, given enough time and trust, unclear things would become clear... Parables are good at separating the weak from the strong...
Most parables were more easily understood, didn't cause ppl to walk away... But understanding.this parable was more difficult to do.. It was the one about drinking His blood and eating His flesh... Would YOU walk away? If you take the parable literally, you probably would... But it's not meant to be taken literally, in its physical connotation... It's meant to be taken SPIRITUALLY... Blood stands for God's TRUTH given in His Word (circulating throughout, and giving life wherever it goes), and flesh stands for LIVING God's truth, putting love into action...
None of the 12 disciples. Other disciples did.
So the way to resolve contradictions in the scriptures, the doctrine or in history goes as follows:
Find out which truth claim contradicts the facts that you can then declare as not the real truth claim.
Make it a parable or metaphor for a different truth claim.
So what happens is you throw the original claim into ambiguity, do a little mental gymnastics, and come out the other side with a different claim that uses the original claim as the analogy for the new claim. In this way, you can claim that it's consistent with the way Jesus taught, which legitimizes you procedure as a principled way in which to change the claim, _and_ you resolve the contradiction.
Now if you left the church because of two claims contradicting one another, then it's your fault for not following this ad hoc reasoning in order to resolve it in some way, in _any possible way,_ and then for not taking your contextualization as the gospel truth. And that's regardless of whether this fake claim in the scriptures or in history had been taught as the real claim for decades in the past by membership and leadership alike, and it wasn't until science or the internet caught up with it that the church started issuing this procedure to its members to keep them believing.
And it's completely okay because god originally intended for these claims to be taken as metaphor or as a parable the entire time. We just didn't know that until the facts of reality manifest themselves. We're all just slowly learning which teachings in the church we can throw into ambiguity and transform into analogies for different claims.
God revealed his secret to his servants the prophets, he just didn't tell them it was a secret.
🤔😂 That was awesome!
Hello World? What is this, the opening sequence of a gameboy? C’mon David. I’m so MAD 😡
What is being perfect complete. Christ Himself said when he was in the holy land. Be ye therefore perfect even as my Father and your Father in heaven is perfect complete. After Christ acention into heaven and his resurrection. When he came to visit some of our Heavenly Fathers children on this side of the world. Christ said be ye therefore perfect even as I and my Father in heaven. Truly the essence or purposes of life is growth and to become and to overcome. What may be true to a two year old may not be true for a thirty year old..when we grow up we change .
10:57 why would God want to know who were the real ones when he is like, all knowing and all seeing? Wouldn't he have known beforehand?
So, did God give contradictory information to different prophets?
Opposition is necessary, but contradictions are not necessary. Where are you even justified in saying such false doctrine? We still need to have faith in the things that are NOT contradictory...not have to first choose what side of the contradiction we want and then go on to exercise faith. Thats ridiculous. Remember, God's not the author of confusion.
So what side of the contradiction do you have faith in?...and since it's a contradiction, does it even matter?
Christ didn't do contradictory things. He performed miracles . That's entirely different than 2 prophets who teach something different. You guys aren't making sense.
It was a contradiction to scripture that Nephi kill Laban...but the Lord quickly and soundly provided Nephi with an answer, a teaching, a revelation that the contradiction was OK. He doesn't do that in modern times to individual church members about their observable church contradictions. That's why people struggle. Don't you get it? Quit summarizing everything with "just have faith". That doesn't work in the case of contradictions.
Case in point, the Orson Pratt-Brigham Young controversies. Orson was actually expanding on the teachings of Joseph that B.Y. disagreed on. You are asking church members to choose a side and then exercise faith.
Kwaku, as a democrat,...do you choose the views of Nancy Pelosi or AOC?...or just "have faith" and pick a side because opposition (or contradictions) in the Democratic party is good and necessary?
Actually, it wasn't a contradiction for God command Nephi to kill Laban. The more correct translation of "thou shalt not kill" is "thou shalt not murder." So while God did command Nephi to kill Laban, Nephi was not commanded to murder Laban. God being the author of the command made it lawful for Nephi to kill Laban and thus not murder.
@@MichaelEllisYT Thank you for your further clarification. That just proved my point even more. ... that there shouldn't exist any contradictions in the true church. Even the case of Nephi & Laban shows God doesn't allow for contradictions. It's all been properly defined.
For these three kids to sit there and think they've miraculously cleared up decades old discussions and contradictions among church scholars, professors, general authorities, doctrine and policy, is absolutely ludicrous and what's sad is that every 20 something year old millennial will accept what they've said as truth without hitting the books, reading the thesis papers submitted to BYU and other colleges, looking deeply into all sides of the contradictions and realizing issues do exist.
God is the Ultimate Zen Master.
How can there be contradictions in Gods church Because it's not gods church ..
How is presupposing prophets should be perfect different from presupposing Christ literally walked on water and rose from the dead?
Would it be safer to eliminate as many presuppositions as possible? Just accepting what we have evidence to believe, maybe?
@Sean_S the presupposition according to Joseph is that Prophets are human and thus imperfect. As for Christ walking on water, rising from the dead etc those are witness testimonies that we can ask about and investigate while presupposing they are true. If you assume they are false they can never be proven true, but if you assume they are true there is the potential if they are false they can be proven so.
Luke Steele: What if you read a witness account, look at the reliability of the witness, whether their statements match what your own experience tells you is possible, then let further evidence help determine whether or not you believe it?
Wouldn’t that minimize your own bias, as it would color further evidence?
Hello World! Can't you do any better than that? Wasn't that used by the original Mac commercial in 1984? How can the Church be true when it's leading defenders are lost in a time warp of old introductions?
na mate if it's inspired it should be right
My name isnt Matt. Names meaning is Matthew 4:4. Youd be surprised at how many dont get it.
The Holy Spirit would never contradict itself, there are numerous Bible verses on this. Mormon scripture contradicts the New and Old Testament an exorbitant amount of times, on huge issues. Don't trust yourself. Don't trust your heart. Don't trust your feelings. Trust the word of God, the old and new testament. It's trustworthy and without error. Complete and not in need of any additions or changes.