Are Mormon Temple ceremonies stolen from the Masons?
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- Опубликовано: 11 сен 2024
- Today's episode of Saints Unscripted is different than usual... David does a Skype video call with Brett McDonald who has his own RUclips channel called LDS Truth Claims.
David and Brett talk about the criticisms between Joseph Smith and Freemasonry. Lots of critics like to point at the similarities between the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saint's temple ceremonies and freemasonry. David and Brett go back and forth talking about these criticisms and determine how to go about understanding their similarities. Just because some things have some similarities does not mean they are the same, or that Joseph was a false prophet because of them.
What did you guys think of our episode? Did you like the Skype episode? Have any more questions or concerns about Freemasonry and Joseph Smith? Let us know in the comment section!
WATCH: Brett's video about Freemasonry (skip to 10:50)
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Thank you! I am a Freemason and a member of the Church of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints. I find the endowment and masonry compliment each-other very well, but ultimately they serve different purposes.
Nice critics say that they do the same thing the more you know
The endowment ceremony is the same as a the Yei Bei Chei ceremony in my tribe. Very sacred and not to be disrespected.
Wow!!! ❤
Yeah, the big thing is is like if there’s a truth it’s going to be in many forms and Ways one of these guys that was a Buddhist. He was a Grandmaster in Hapkido that I was taking he one day was talking about the spirit and about how it’s released and they believe it’s through the rice and then the steam comes up and he was talking about really deep Buddhist beliefs about three different heavens, and that there was actually he started to actually put out the whole plan of salvation from a Buddhist
Wow interesting. I’m finding SO many similitudes between the ceremonial clothing to what the Toltecs were wearing inside their temples thousands of years ago.
This channel makes me a stronger youth.
I've been waiting for this for a long time. Brett and his channel are wildly under appreciated in my honest opinion. He is a tremendous source of knowledge. Thank you for having him on !!
Am a Knight Templar, Master Mason and going to be baptized in 2 weeks. As of now there, to me, is only the idea that charity, and other tenants are both to me wonderful and moving reasons to be involved in both. Honesty, brotherhood, and charity are worthy on their own.
Well...the "God" that you ACTUALLY worship...is the same "God" that members of the church unknowingly worship. Lucifer
Are you kidding bro. Shame on you. Me no more 33 degree and they slay my family to death. Rrpent bro
You will love the endowment! I am a Freemason, and recently got my endowment. For me they complement each other completely.
I love what Masons did to France during the French revolution. Good stuff.
I’m so glad! I hope you are having fun!
I recognize we can have callings which stretch us in the church. I feel like you might like to know that if you have a calling or will have one, it will help you! It may seem like a lot of responsibility, but if you accept your callings, you will become more than you were before.
I’m so glad you’re in the church!
“We don’t teach our tradition correctly. We don’t teach this stuff from a young age.” Amen brother.
Thank you for your video. I would like members to call our Church by the right names.
Mormon and Mormonism is not correct and I’m sure non members would be confused as I am.
I’ve been a member for many years in Australia, and words like ‘Mormonism’ is just not used.
It’s no wonder non members think we are not Christian. Thank you for listening to my gripe.
There’s an awesome video on fair about the Nag Hamadi and evidence of temple practices in early Christianity, restored through the Prophet Joseph Smith. These practices and teachings were completely cut out by order of Roman Empire due to the Nicean/Athanasian creed (the new order of distorted Christianity). Luckily early faithful Saints and Bishops hid up or made commentaries of which have been discovered (Dead Sea Scrolls (Old Testament apocrypha), Nag Hamadi (New Testament apocrypha (agnostic writings)) etc, such affirm key principles and ordinances taught in the temple. On that note, this is the only church that cares about the dead (the dead are actually alive to us) , I am grateful for temple work and the truth found in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. It is the only church concerned with eternity.
Thank you for that! I'm at the Temple frequently ince a week, because I'm a Temple WORKER and I'm so thankful to see the Love our church members have for those that have gone beyond the veil, those that we have never known in life ,unless it's a family member, but most of the time it's someone from a different part of the world we have never known!💜🌷🌻🌷🌻🌷🌻🌷🌻🌷🌻
Nonsense, the Catholics and Orthodox pray daily for the dead per II Maccabees, a book Mormonism doesn't even use.
The scripture about being baptized for the dead is taken totally out of context... if you read in context chapter before and after you will discover Paul is explaining that since the Corinthians were claiming they didn't believe in the resurrection of the saints, then the baptisms for the dead were contradicting their claims of not believing there was no resurrection after death... 1st Cor 15:29 Paul is asking why they are even doing baptisms for the dead when they don't even believe the dead will rise? It's a false doctrine !!! He asks why they risk their lives daily for the sake of the gospel if there is no resurrection then it would all be in vain... and he goes on to explain how God's creation is different and how things are born and die... just as man is born of the flesh, when he dies he will be made new and not inherit his body like it was on earth, but it will be changed just like when a seed is planted and bears fruit it is changed.... Then he gives Jesus Christ all the glory that our eternal life is all through Jesus so how can a man give eternal life for someone here on earth by being baptized for them? It isn't possible. ONLY Jesus can save you through your confession that he is the Way The Truth and THE LIFE!!! NO OTHER WAY AROUND IT.
@@WarriorsForWalteri hope you understand how many lds bible scholars there are that understand the context of that chapter better than both of us and are still faithful to the lds tradition. there's a lot more nuance to it then "oh those mormons are always taking things out of context."
i really believed by heart and mind about the restoration of gospel thru joseph smith.. what can u say- theres so much to learn/know about the fullness of gospel of jesus christ. am just grateful and blessed. its available to everybody
The fullness of the everlasting gospel is the life and death of Jesus Christ .
You're a headless chicken that isn't aware your head is missing and that you can't think for yourself .
Kato Ganess lol.you’re funny
G Free gave u thumbs up on your question:) i love that chapter! yess one of those historical truth like baptismal for the dead which was practiced by the ancient christians and good thing paul preached them about resurrection(1 corinth 15:12)! coz among them saying no resurrection from the dead?? and how come theyre performing the baptismal for the dead(1 corinth 15:29) if theyre saying no ressurection from the dead -right?? that means for me- i believed that paul emphasized that baptism was also symbolize resurrection(im loving this chapter! lol) ..now, about restoration- i havent heard any christian denominations yet doing this ordinance except the church of jesus christ of latter-day saints.. :)
p.s. let me also emphasized again “restoration of the FULLNESS of the everlasting gospel of Jesus Christ” :)
He has some really great stuff. I have watch his videos several times. Now I need to go slower and take notes. Sharing Brett’s work is important
That’s my cousin- Dave! He’s one of the best guy’s you’ll ever meet!
I went through the Temple just a few months ago and I've been reading and trying to understand more. This is wonderful and helps me with my understanding. Thank you very much.
Heidi, read Sacred Symbols by Gaskill, that is also amazing stuff and will add to this a lot.
@@edhuhtala8457 Gaskill is ... a genius.
The physical stuff like annointing with oil, water babtism, etc are written to Physical Jews who were spiritually dead, and needed to do physical things for salvation. Now that Jesus died for our sins we can spiritually be saved, circumcized from the physical body without hands and thus are rightious by Jesus. Even if someone sins in the body it can not touch your soul if you are saved ny believeing in the blood of Jesus. Sabbath keeping, dietary laws etc are for the Jews or those weak in faith.
This is awesome man I love your channel.
Nothing audacious about Joseph Smith regarding the temple ceremony. Before there was Osiris, molech, mithras, the masons, etc., there was The Great Jehovah and His Church which was from the beginning. True Religion and the Church of Jesus Christ was revealed in mortality to Adam and so was True worship in the temple ceremony starting with Adam. All latter day saints should easily understand this. It is plan, simple and easy to see. Everything else from any other church or organization is a copy, imitation, bastardization, corruption of what was given and first practiced by Adam. Joseph Smith was told by Christ to experience the masons ritual and learn from it and take what right and correct restore temple worship and ceremony as the Lord wanted. Joseph merely stole back what was stolen from the church for a lack of better words.
It amazes me as to how many people want to take the things of the Lord that give us joy and peace and turn them into something ugly. I see on RUclips the number of videos that have been posted where members of the Church have taken secret cameras or audio devices into the Temple and recorded the ENTIRE endowment session and posted it. When I call them out for being deceitful with the Lord, their Bishop and their Stake President, they respond that it is not an issue and is nothing more than missionary work? Seriously? Look at this and see the comments. I am shocked at how we treat sacred things. Posted link but decided to remove it as I do not want to contribute to this wickedness.
Awesome video, thank you so much David and Brett!
Seeking the spirit is the antidote.. have the spirit.. learn how to receive your own personal Revelation.. then you will empathize with brother Joseph and how he received personal Revelation..
@@vanessabraga6970 By exactly the way you said. The fruits of the spirit.. 🙂
it is CLEAR this guy is not searching for truth, what he is searching for, are ways to try to defend his position on something that he likes being involved in. its that simple
At the ending, Brett says that when it comes to discussions about what LDS claims are true/false, he says it's not what is "interesting" but what is "relevant". That is completely subjective, though. You can believe whatever facts you want to are relevant and disregard others as "interesting" because you want to believe. For a long time in church history, the BOA was probably seen as strong evidence until it was shown that the facsimiles did not match Joseph's translation. If he would have translated it correctly, that would be "relevant", but now it is not. It is a classic case of moving the goalpost. (Not anti-mormon by the way, just presenting my perspective).
Despite the questions about the BoA... I still find it to be strong evidence. But yes, I suppose that what's 'relevant' is subjective.
Steven Evans I feel you, I am LDS and struggling with a lot of facts I have learned.
@@estebancarbajal6014 If you are struggling, take it to the Lord. Seek wisdom from God.
@@elderinisrael Well, God never spoke to me or anyone else. Feelings are not a good way to get to the truth. Often times our feelings are wrong.
@@alienwarex51i3 Actually, God has spoken to many people, it's why we have The Bible, The Book of Mormon, The Doctrine and Covenants, and The Pearl of Great Price. They are all records not only of God's dealings with his children here on earth but of his words.
If prophets are left on their own, causing problems like the priesthood ban, believing that there are men on the moon, plagiarizing from masonry, etc., then why should we believe the modern prophets are speaking god’s will about LGBT issues, women holding the priesthood, the word of wisdom, etc.?
Also, you mentioned that we find things like temple handclasps in ancient writings. Could you link me to your source?
If you look at his series LDS Truth Claims he has all the sources there
Sacred❤️ thanks both of you Brother
As I see it. It does not matter if it comes from the Masons. As the church is built for our benefit. As such things are put there that will benefit us as members. Things will change with time. As with the needs of the members. Just look at how now we have a home centered worship.
Finally ...hopefully this will answer my questions
so there was no way that Smith had access to the writings of the catholic theologian Cyril of Jerusalem? is this true? how do we know this is fact? this theologian had doctrinal authority in his time...his writings were obviously available in some way...which is where smith could have taken the washing and anointing ceremonies from...
Nope. Which academic library was in rural New York in 1820? Are you kidding?
@@suem6004 im not kidding. smith was also a Mason as well all know. well aware of the ceremonies and their language. did smith never leave upstate NY either? how can you be so sure? why dont you want honest questions answered?
Fascinating. Brett's the Man!
We will be surprised when we realize how everything is connected. We are a human family and are connected in ways we don’t understand yet.
Wasn't the masons based on the template...who basically got they symbolism from Solomon temple...
Freemasonry uses the construction of King Solomon's Temple as an allegory for self-improvement; this was adopted from the Bible.
Brett mentions several times that Joseph Smith translated the Book of Enoch? Really? Where is that book in the Mormon scriptures? I honestly would like to know.
It's not in the Book of Mormon, it's in the Pearl of Great Price. Look in chapters 6 and 7 of the Book of Moses
A clock is right twice a day and the critics and anti-clock people never mention this fact.
if there are exact similarities between both ceremonies, even as much as hand signals, do you think it was a real revelation? would not a transcendent omniscient God avoid confusion?
If one avoids the traditions/rituals of man there is no confusion.
I would also argue too there is lots taken in the Bible from other cultures for God's purposes, such as circumcision. Jesus's parables were all existing stories he repurposed
It seems the majority of the endowment is very apparent as coming from the Book of Abraham and specifically the Book of Joseph. Book of Abraham was depaganizing those ancient teaching which were corrupted.
Question: If Joseph Smith was so kind, loving and Christ-like, then why did so many mobs want to kill him? And why was he arrested twice? He must have done something wrong to get arrested and hunted by mobs right? Btw why were the Mormons kicked out of Missouri and Illinois? Why didnt everyone coexist with them peacefully with freedom of religion?
They wanted their own government type function which they have in Utah . 88% of Utahs government is Mormon and only 2 governors have not been Mormon . They came here killed Indians , enslaved n ect . Everywhere they went murder went with them
If Jesus was so kind, loving, and Christ-like, then why did people crucify him? These attributes don't mean everyone is going to like you and agree with you, there is always opposition to good things
Why did so many protestants join in vigilantism? What about that rendition made them prone to extremism and intolerance?
I am LDS and I have many doubts and please don’t tell me I don’t have a testimony or I need to pray more I am a returned missionary. I have been an active member my whole life as well as my family.
Who can answer my questions?
Book of Mormon word by word translation to history books of that time? Same errors than on the 1769 KJV bible?
Different first vision accounts? Members didn’t even know about the first vision til many years after it happened.
Book of Abraham is wrong, kinderhook plates were forgeries. How can we trust our leaders when they said and did crazy things. Like people living on the moon, the sun getting its power from another star (kolob)
The earth being 7k years old. No life before Adam and Eve...
I could really go on and on...can someone please answer my questions. The local leaders don’t have an answer.
Well, that is a lot of queries, I find the Latter-Dat Saints Q&A RUclips channel has very helpful videos on many subjects. First of all, most of those crazy things mentioned are not LDS Doctrines but widespread beliefs of the 1800's. Brigham Young (and others) did not have access to modern science and was limited by the knowledge of his day, where many, even educated people, thought there might be people on the moon, or that the earth was only 7000 years. Since they have never been taught as doctrines of the church, that is basically attacking people for being born in wrong century. I am not aware of any history books with any passages identical to the BoM. ruclips.net/video/RMV90SEhPjY/видео.html also responds to some of your concerns.
Esteban I am also looking for answers, and I have found these channels and I hope they can help you, this one is called fairmormon. ruclips.net/video/_jGadnfI8zU/видео.html
Brett, I also really like this channel Latter-Dat Saints Q&A
Yes too many issues for a church that is supposed led by “Prophets, Seers and Revelators “ they will spin everything to fit what they want to believe and it requires extraordinary mental exercise. If you want to continue being Mormon in the 21st century I recommend two books that will help you, one is Teaching for Doctrines the Commandments of Men by Rob Smith, you will be astonished. The other one is Passing The Heavenly Gift by Denver Snuffer. Without these two books not too many will remain Mormons for too long.
Bon Jovi I agree but your faith and relationship with God is independent of any religious traditions
I've noticed there are a few times where you say you'll put a link in the description and then for get to add the link in the description :) just a fyi
Sorry about that, sometimes the person who uploads these videos to RUclips might not catch when I say that. Which links did I say we'd include but didn't? Thanks for holding us accountable.
@@davidsnell2605 The link to Brett McDonald's channel with the video about Freemasonry. :)
@@kaitlynlacy853 Done! Thanks for the heads up.
Joseph didn’t believe there were men on the moon. He made that comment in response to another group of people to poke fun at them. Like “yeah, sure, there’s men on the moon, and they wear tophats”. It was a joke from the start
The quote is from Oliver Huntington: "As far back as 1837, I know that he [Joseph Smith] said the moon was inhabited by men and women the same as this earth, and that they lived to a greater age than we do -- that they live generally to near the age of a 1,000 years.
He described the men as averaging nearly six feet in height, and dressing quite uniformly in something near the Quaker style." But whether or not he believed it is irrelevant to me, considering the Great Moon Hoax of the day and the fact that lots of people believed it.
Have really enjoyed this channel. Had to stop this video though, felt like a line was crossed. Maybe some of what made me uncomfortable is in print from the church, but I’ve never seen it.
I think Joseph definitely believed the Freemasonry had ancient origins. And that was why it was important for him to join masonry. The endowment was created as an appended body to masonry in essence to link the two traditions together.
So No, Joseph didn't steal/plagiarize the endowment from masonry. he was creating a branch of masonry.
I find it interesting that Brett places so much emphasis on what Joseph Smith said, yet is willing to ignore him about the importance of the ordinances not being changed. I personally cannot accept the validity of the modern changes to the endowment. At the same time the endowment was changed very early in the Church's history. One need only look at the oath to avenge Joseph Smith to know that THAT wasn't in the original endowment. So the endowment that L-dS Church possesses is, in my opinion a pale shadow of what it should be.
Also, Joseph Smith did NOT say people lived on the moon.
I think the Lord gave the Endowment to Joseph line upon line, as He does with everything, with everyone else. And I think the Endowment will continue to be refined and perfected in the future.
And you're right, the quote about people living on the moon isn't from Joseph himself. It's from Oliver B. Huntington: "As far back as 1837, I know that he [Joseph Smith] said the moon was inhabited by men and women the same as this earth, and that they lived to a greater age than we do -- that they live generally to near the age of a 1,000 years.
He described the men as averaging nearly six feet in height, and dressing quite uniformly in something near the Quaker style."
But the whole moon thing really doesn't matter in the slightest, considering the Great Moon hoax of the day.
@@davidsnell2605An ordinance so important as the endowment , which enables the adherent the right to inherit the celestial kingdom God himself could not reveal its entirety all at once??? So God too, like Joseph was unsure what the endowment should be? So before a change was made to it, some people received quarter, half or perhaps three quarters of an endowment? Your response has little credibility my friend.
OUR HEAVENLY FATHER IS ALL KNOWING, and he knows when his children are ready for more SPIRITUAL GROWTH!!! SO LIKE any good parent he change's things for us on our behalf, that we may CONTINUE TO PROGRESS AND MAKE PROGRESS IN THIS MORTAL LIFE, since we are trying to become more like our HEAVENLY father! I love the gospel and have had the spirit of the Lord testify to me of it's TRUTH! 💜🌷🌻🌷🌻🌷🌻🌷😇
God speaks to you in the language you know.
Yes ! thats why i can speak to animals, cause words are irrelevant, its about emotion and intent.
Abraham lived in a world of sacrifice. So when he began to hear God's voice, God used the language of sacrifice even as scripture tells us that God hates sacrifice. Likewise, when Joseph Smith received revelation from God, God had to put it into a context that was already familiar to Joseph. Our world, and each of us, are on a path of progress. Taking the next step on any path is necessarily connected to all prior steps. The Temple is no more stolen from Masons than rock and roll is stolen from the blues. They are each simply orderly progressions, and therefore have similarities.
I don’t even know where to begin ... you mentioned how critics like to use red herring arguments, but that’s all I saw from both of you in this video. There are thousands of members leaving the church for discovering things mentioned in this video (free mason influence on endowment and book of Abraham which you volunteered). Thousands are having serious doubts and have many questions that really need to be answered DIRECTLY.
Instead of addressing the actual issues, you try to distract the skeptic (red herring argument) by using things that are verifiable while never actually addressing the “negative” issue. Ummm ... that’s the definition of red herring. Somehow you take it upon yourself to define/decide what is and is not important. Sorry but you dont get to do that.
This is how you come across to those of us questioning ... “it doesn’t matter that Joseph said he translated the BoA using the facsimiles he provided for you .... just ignore that and focus on the positive things that he got right!” or “who cares if he borrowed some stuff from the Masons ... I know that Joseph said it was revelation from God but don’t listen to that ... I mean what is a revelation anyways. Just look at the things he got right... the things we can verify. He’s either a very lucky guy or a true prophet.” And to those who are solid in their faith, you sound informed, educated, genius and they probably give you a ton of praise for what you do encouraging you to do more.
If you want to make an impact, answer the negative head on and don’t shift the argument to something else. You said it yourself ... “i like to start and focus on the positive.” Of course because the is easy to do. But just because Joseph got some things right, it doesn’t mean that it’s all right and he’s a true prophet. That’s a long leap to make.
And then you assume that if people actually study the issues, then they will arrive to the same conclusion as you ... and if they don’t come to the same conclusion then they were reading the wrong stuff. Sorry man but I have had questions for a long time and I have been researching for many many years and I don’t see it your way. When you mocked that man who said he studied over a thousand hours, you were basically mocking me and many skeptics who are trying to get to the truth - you’re showing some arrogance.
Church leaders, apologist, and self-proclaimed apologist like you need to address the issues head on and not skirt around the actual issues. Even the gospel topic essays are deceptive.
I beg you to show some humility and empathy for those of us having some serious issues with the church.
Miguel Saenz: Well said I appreciate your response. You summed up my feelings on this video as well. I have read hundreds of hours on topics like this as well. To hear him talk for 24 minutes and not really address the issues head on shows his smoke and mirrors approach to apologetics. Studying FARMS/Fair Mormon/Brian Hales was the nail in the coffin for me with regards to the truth claims by the Church. One key point with Freemasons history dates back to the 14th century, the secret handshakes. The origins of these handshakes were used to prove to other Masons if they were a Master/Journey Man/Apprentice. Now these same handshakes are the ones we give in the afterlife to the angels to pass through the veil. That is a huge problem for me. But in his paradigm he has no problems with that because he found something else that was positive.
I suggest checking out Brett's channel "LDS Truth Claims". I think you'll find what you're looking for there (:
@@ethanf.237 yeah, maybe it is explained better there, for example he explains that yeah, the facsimiles aren't translated correctly as interpreted by Egyptian (head on), but there is evidence of Abraham's culture using Egyptian facsimiles and applying them to their own stories, so the point is what interpretation should we compare them to? How the scribe saw it, or Egyptians of which time period, or Abraham? Since we don't have all the details, it's not super helpful to try to look at the facsimiles. Which is why he suggests to look at the text which is testable. It'd not ignoring inconvenient stuff, it's ignoring stuff without enough details, and looking at what does. There's also more explanation with the temple stuff and the CES letter of many of the things in there that have a simple answer to, which is why he has a hard time understanding how 1000 hrs couldn't find those simple answers. I don't think he's trying to be mean but just doesn't understand
Paul Gregersen proved that Joseph Smith was right, the Egyptologists were wrong. End of story.
this guy got my subscription!
This is a sloppy presentation. So many historical mistakes, such as BC for AD or the moon claim that is attributed to Brigham Young and not Joseph Smith, etc.
It also suggests that Heavenly Father (omniscient) knows the servant he had prepared from the foundations of the world will be of a certain mindset asking certain questions that opens the doors to give the revelation needed
God isn’t reactive as we Go to introduce things to us He knows where we will be individually and as a people when we grow through the next stage of our existence
Not a surprise in considering things
Parley P Pratt said Masonary did contain some ancient practices, it had connections to the ancient priesthood, but was distorted over time. Why anyone thinks this is any different than Joseph Smith taking the ordinance of baptism, or the wording and actions of the sacrament being similar yet different from how Catholics do mass; just changing wording slightly is bogus. It is no different. Initiatories is the most beautiful and forgotten part of the ceremony and the Book of Abraham fragments were translated, by a critic of the Church and my jaw dropped- video on my channel and I feel less worried I am making anything less sacred hearing them speak, if he isn’t in trouble one town away from me in Brea, I should be good 😉 Suffice to say, paintings, sculptures, all over the world hint at how true... Joseph was is saying the endowment was of ancient origin and that I know, I see it everywhere, but we have to be careful in what we say, or point out...
Ok so I really do hear what Brett is saying about having a response to things around him and implementing it into practice. The problem is this: when a prophet of God speaks in his name, he can’t get it wrong. The excuse that Prophets are human and make mistakes just doesn’t work when it comes to speaking for God. Why would God tell him something that wasn’t true, just to find out that its not. Either God is not God, Joseph Smith is nit interpreting Gods messages to him correctly or he is making it up and flying by the seat if his pants in hopes that whatever he says will actually happen.
A prophet of God is not perfect, the scriptures never claim that they are, God has never taught that His prophets are perfect. He can be as perfect in areas that God directs him to be, but God doesn't direct prophets in all things. The Bible is full of examples of this as well. I don't think anybody is saying that God is telling prophets things that aren't true, but I do believe that God doesn't counsel prophets on all matters. He counsels prophets on things pertaining to exaltation, on how to Come unto Christ through the Atonement of Christ. We all receive truth a little at a time, even prophets cannot take on all truth at once, and are they themselves in training like we are.
The question is - if joseph wasnt a mason , would the temple ceremony exist????
@Laurent Reti- Hello. I would say yes. I am currently reading a book based on hundreds of pages of journals and diaries of Wilford Woodruff called Wilford Woodruff's Witness: The Development of Temple Doctrine. What I took from what I've read so far is that the Temple proceedings are inspired and revealed. God is ok with us using symbols that are familiar to us if it helps reinforce a point. Otherwise something different would be revealed.
I'm wondering why Jesus did not teach so much about temples, let alone endowments. His words about the temple was that the temple would be destroyed and then raised up in three days. The Jews at the time thought he was talking about the temple at that time, a building. But Jesus was talking about his body. He says that our bodies are the temple where his spirit dwells. The veil was torn when Jesus died, symbolizing that all can have direct access to him, no longer do we need the blood sacrifices. It just seems to me like Jesus is saying that the temple served it's purpose prior to his death and resurrection and no longer is needed.
I just don't feel like the LDS endowment is so unique when it shares so much similarities with initiation into secret societies like Freemasonry. It's pretty disappointing for me and I'm sure a lot of members discovering this.
I could be dead wrong of course. Just thinking out loud. 😊 Will continue to pray for discernment.
Joseph Smith, as the authorized servant and Prophet of the Lord, of this, the Last Dispensation, and President of the Lord's Church in these latter-days, was duly authorized to receive revelation and institute rules, ceremonies, laws or ordinances, for the benefit and blessing of the Latter-day Saints (and all the people of the world.)
It is the Lord of hosts however, who ultimately decides all things. This includes the life and death of each and everyone of us.
So Joseph Smith may have been influenced by his association with Free-Masonry? So what?
I don’t think the books of Freemason were read in the making of this video.
There are a million bits of information and each of us choose the parts that support what we have chosen to believe. To say that all critics of the church are simply uninformed and don't read enough just isn't accurate. I may not read the same books that Brett reads because he is starting with the assumption that the church is true and looking for data to support that. As someone who has been a bishop and in a stake presidency and with 50 years in the church (age 8 to 58) I have my own set of data that causes my to put very low confidence in the truth claims of the church. I read and think and have done my fair share of pondering and praying and I just come up on the critical side regarding Joseph Smith. Why would a God make the choice such a puzzle? Very few are able to do the kind of mental gymnastics that Brett McDonald is capable of.
'Why would God make the choice such a puzzle?' Is probably the most profound comment I've ever read on RUclips. Seriously. Cuts right to the heart of the matter instead of worrying about how many angels fit on the head of a pin.
We're diggin' this video guys, great work!
Who are we kidding here? The temple ordinances were not copied from Freemasonry?? When Joseph Smith together with all of the male members of his family were masons. For example Hyrum is a famous Masonic name adopted from the Hebrew language which means " My brother is exalted". Fact: The Church claims that Joseph only joined masonry after he established the LDS church, when the opposite is true , he belonged to a Masonic family .
@@cdmbcgm And so the LDS plot thickens
@@cdmbcgm I'm not interested in FairMormon for giving any explanation, they seem to be exactly the same thing you and all the LDS apologists are doing , sugar coating the morbid history of the Mormon Church. What baffles me the most is how apologists like you insult the intelligence of experienced, open minded people like myself with your tomfoolery. I've heard so many explanations from missionaries who btw are direct messengers of the Church, they are taught not to share opinions but teach only what they've been instructed to from their mission presidents or from their respective mtc's , all of which comes from the first presidency. In all my twelve years as LDS , I've heard the following, Joseph was never a Mason, it so happens that the restoration brought about truths that the masons also have, he joined Freemasonry after he had established the LDS Church and instituted the ordinances of the temple, he joined Freemasonry because of the mounting persecutions and feared for his life and sought protection from them and lastly this new explanation. If your so called truth is shrouded in a web of lies , brother I'm not interested and I rest my case.
😂did u watch the video...ya he clearly stated that there are a lot of similarities, and then discusses the reasons. The short response to your statement is “so what”.
@@cdmbcgm OK I went to the FairMormon link and read its contents, what does it prove or disprove ? IMO I can only conclude that Joseph made alterations to Masonic practices to arrive at the endowment, similarly he used various literary sources to conjure up the BOM.
@@kathylanigan3075 You're a headless chicken that doesn't know its head is missing and unaware that you can't think for yourself
Dude drops a series of awesome lectures, then he just walks away like he’s got nothing else to say.
Heavenly father chose an ordinary humble boy joseph smith because he had enough faith to ask which church is right he wasn't a king in robes he made mistakes so did paul but he accomplished what heavenly father asked him to do even though their were some difficulties to do it just like us we have tests and trials and if we stay faithful we will be blessed with peace and everlasting happiness
The only thing testable about the Book of Abraham is what JS said about Abraham. Oh yeah, if you forget about the fact that there are journals cateloging translations and that we have the original facsimile one along with two lines of translated Egyptian characters. Only thing testable! You guys are something else.
we gor that pranjal pack
As an example, Abraham's culture used Egyptian facsimiles to tell their own stories, so he's saying that it is untestable because it depends on whose interpretation to go by which is unknown which exactly JS was taking it from
@@beefmaster4 Abraham's culture did no such thing because we know exactly nothing about Abraham's culture and there's not even any real evidence he actually existed. You're referring to much later Jews doing this. And please, how exactly do you explain JS translating 2 lines of Hieratic Egyptian into BoA text?
Also, can't imagine this would be a very smart game plan from God to use pagan facsimiles within a text all stated as being a translation "written by the hand of Abraham" and in another place JS said it was "written by Abraham's hand." If Abraham is just reinterpreting Egyptian funeral text then why wouldn't God have cleared this up in order to avoid any confusion? A very simple, "reinterpretation of Egyptian characters" would've done wonders. The lack of this is precisely what you would expect from someone pretending to translate Egyptian and not working with God. Unless ofcourse God is happy to mislead people as some sadistic test of faith.
I guess Brett forgot about me. He said no one has ever tried to criticize his Enoch theory.
Wow. This was super interesting.
Active LDS member here....
What is the meaning and point of the signs, tokens and new name? According to the church it is to enable us to pass angels who stand as sentinels and gain exaltation.
I don't believe we will be giving handshakes and passwords to get to God. It runs contrary to the teachings of Jesus Christ in both the Bible and The Book of Mormon. The endowment has had significant changes over the years also.
As a Fremason (before I joined the Church) and member of the Church, I see it exactly how I see it in Masonry: instructional allegory, teaching the concept that certain knowledge is needed to live an upright life before God. Not necessarily the word and grip but all of the other teachings of the Church.
Think about what those things represent- it’s not the actual token it is the covenants we have made with God- what are we promising to do? Everything we do is thru Christ. He is our veil. The temple teaches things symbolically.
@@TheHappyNarwhals Maybe. I don't know. All I know is the explanation given when Brigham Young is quoted at the beginning of the presentation is that we are given the signs, tokens and key words necessary to gain salvation. I feel this is wrong and not in harmony with the gospel foundin the Book of Mormon or the Bible.
Brett lets the uncomfortable facts roll off his back like water off a duck.
J. P. Blah blah blah
That should be considered a criticism
Such apologetic spin. The priesthood ban wasn’t policy, it was preached as doctrine. Two different first presidencies made statements saying it was doctrine that god is racist. And it only changed not bc enough brethren went to the lord but bc the church was put under immense pressure from outside forces, including members, academia, sports and political figures. Why would we need prophets of god only responds through prophets when the world pressures the church? I though the idea of prophets was that they lead us ahead of the world? This is complete spin.
And the book of Abraham, give me a break. He claimed to perform literal translation, and we know now it is all bull. The facsimiles have been translated by actual egyptologists and exposed Joseph as a fraud.
how many wives did Joseph smith have?
37 I heard and brigham young had 50 or so. Also Joseph smith married 11 woman already married to other men civally and commanded to be sealed to the prophet in the temple. Some of those men were on missions and did not even know the prophet had got sealed to them......The prophet married a mother and a daughter also..
King David had over 100. How many women did Ravi Zacharias molest in recent years? 200.
Doesn’t matter because he only had kids with his first wife Emma Smith
Doesnt matter to who? Biblically we are instructed one man one woman. Not multiple. So it appears it would matter to our Lord God and Creator.
Limited Masonic knowledge is preventing you from receiving more light, gentlemen. To say Masonry is not ancient when Mormonism has substantially derived from it and Christ himself was a tekton is odd. Dismissing it because the current evidence for speculative masonry only dates back to the 1400s does not mean that is when it began.
first mason lodges were built in the 1800s...masons got and altered a lot of stuff from ancients alchemists after they persecuted them for hundreds or thousands of years...one of the first recorded writings of alchemists is moses of alexandria. has a star of david with a circle just like seen on alchemist books. the menorah is actually a circular shaped oil burner used to carry out alchemist experiments....
@ 6:35.. where does he get the fact that the priesthood ban was just because of racist members? Source please?
Hayden Carroll: Do you mind if I ask how you explain the priesthood ban if it is not the result of racists?
The ban was not in the original church. Joseph Smith had baptized and ordained black members and all that. It came much later, which I always thought was weird.
I think this is just Brett's opinion. I tend to share that opinion, but considering the precedent set in the scriptures I suppose we could both be wrong. Among the Israelites, only the Levites could hold the Priesthood. In the NT the gospel was actively withheld from the Gentiles, because they weren't the "chosen people," which seems pretty racist at first glance. So IMO it could go either way.
From the churches website: www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/race-and-the-priesthood
"Today, the Church disavows the theories advanced in the past that black skin is a sign of divine disfavor or curse, or that it reflects unrighteous actions in a premortal life; that mixed-race marriages are a sin; or that blacks or people of any other race or ethnicity are inferior in any way to anyone else. Church leaders today unequivocally condemn all racism, past and present, in any form."
@@allieooop3923 Again I tend to agree with you and Brett, but I still think the Levites holding the Priesthood and and exclusion (albeit temporary) of the Gentiles are still decently fair examples. The other tribes may have lost the privilege of holding the priesthood due to the golden calf incident, so it makes sense to take it away from that generation of Israelites, but the exclusion went on for hundreds of years, well after those Israelites had died off and their presumably innocent children and grandchildren, etc, were left to suffer the consequences of their ancestors. Seems similar to some of the theories of some past leaders that the priesthood ban was a consequence of the curse of Cain (because of Cain's sin, his posterity couldn't hold the priesthood), which is totally false, but considering the Israelite example I can understand how they arrive at a similar scenario.
Concerning the Jews as God's chosen people: whether they are the chosen people or not, whether there's a good reason or not, it's still the systematic exclusion of a people based on their race/religious beliefs. No only was the priesthood withheld from Gentiles, but the gospel itself (for the most part, of course). I'm not saying Christ did it wrong by any means. he knows what he's doing. But I am saying if something similar happened today, I think it'd be considered racist.
All that said, again, I do think it was just a racist policy.
Question: I asked Mormon missionaries before how they know their faith is true and what evidence is there to support it. They had no response other than "I feel it's true so it's true". Is that the best they can do? Shouldn't missionaries be trained to do better than that? I visited an LDS church once in Utah. Same thing happened after the service. They took me to a room to talk to me about their faith, but could not give any evidence or reasoned arguments about why their faith is true. Any LDS folks here or former LDS folks who can answer this question?
I grew up LDS and all their beliefs go against what the Bible teaches about salvation.... You do not have to earn salvation...It is a free gift to us as A result of the sacrifice if Gods only begotten Son Jesus.... If we have to work out our own salvation by exalting ourselves here on earth what good was the death of Christ? If we have to work and earn our salvation, then Jesus would not have had to have been made a sacrifice for us.... When we believe we are saved by grace and not by our own works, it should produce a gratitude for life inside of us and we should naturally respect the Always of God and live by them naturally if we follow and love as we should.... Jesus is not the brother of Satan... That is blasphemy. There are things we cannot know here on earth... We have to have faith in Jesus Christ alone to be saved.... when you believe that Jesus is enough for you to enter in heaven... How does that make you feel? It should give you relief... When you out on the breastplate of righteousness and the helmet of salvation gird you loins with TRUTH and shod your feed to stand in that truth... No man can take your faith away... Don't live by the doctrines of men... Don't live in fear that your not good enough to enter into heaven... Jesus makes us good enough... We can never be perfect enough to enter heaven so why would God consider any works if we cannot even meet the expectation in the first place... Joseph Smith is a false prophet and a womanizer who was married to more than 100 women... It started as a sex based religion just like the underground masons are... Mormonism has advanced into a very family oriented religion and they do have good morals and respect to God more than most but underneath this religion is false doctrine that misleads you in growing your faith and confidence that Jesus paid the price for us PERIOD...
@@WarriorsForWalter keep in mind that evangelical Christianity was made in america too. it became mainstream in 1910. before that it was fringe. Christians before 1910 did not believe that Salvation was a free gift you could get by praying the sinner's prayer for 5 min and inviting Jesus into your heart. It was never that easy. If it was why did the Pilgrims, Puritans and Quakers live such strict austere puritannical lives? because they believed you had to be a puritanical person with a puritanical lifestyle to be saved of course. if you were guaranteeed salvation by just inviting Jesus into your heart, they would not have done that. you assume that Christianity was always the same, but it wasn't, like anything else it evolved over time and changed many times. even 2000 years ago Christianity didn't just appear, it gradually evolved from more ancient pagan religions over time in a long chain. you Christians don't understand that.
Principles are still the same now as they were 2000 years ago... We are saved by grace not by works... Our works testify of our belief not our belief justified by our works... 🙂
@@WarriorsForWalter sounds like you might benefit from looking into Christianity history, it's interesting
@@happierabroad Thank you for your response... what would a believer believe then based on historical beliefs.. what would the difference look like? Do you have any resources to recommend ?
I knew this guy was familiar!
The members are human. They make mistakes. They get inspiration from what's around them. God has nothing to do with it. You could just say that.
The comparison makes a lot of difference. The filled in sections of the scrolls are an important fact in the divergence from the correct book of the dead scrolls AKA "the book of Abraham". As for the temple, the disembowelment feature of the endowment of old is a clear linkage to Freemasonry. Current members would not know that.
What it is important to understand here (besides the origin of the temple ordinances) is that the Heavens are open for us the Saints when we knock at them. What more evidence than this is necessary about the truthfulness of this work?
Now I see the kind of Jesus you refer to, the movie one. Big time confu
Hello there!!
Wow! I am a little surprised, both of you are humans... you are a very nice fellow!
I always thought you and your fellow members were quite elitist... but I was wrong. you seem quite open minded!!
Your channel is very interesting!
¡Saludos desde 🇨🇱, Chile!
Ohhhh love this topic!! Learning about all of this strengthened my testimony of the restoration. Revelation comes through lived experience. Satans work is counterfeit to Jesus Christ’s. So close that if we don’t know Jesus we might be fooled. Allegedly the church of Satan broke off from free masonry, it wouldn’t surprise me if the Lord’s Church did as well.
I love you David. 💗💗💗💗💗
I LOVE THIS. (Early morning seminary teacher)
Megan E don’t lie to the kids please. I am LDS and we tend to interpret churchs history to fit our narrative.
This was a great podcast
The real question is why did they get rid of the sixth point of fellowship?
Loved this video, short cut testimony is no good! That’s what happens when you don’t read and study and constant prayer, your testimony is to be built by what YOU do,,,,,,lukewarm church members are the ones who fall away! Just saying!
Steve Givens, NO, the ones who dare to ask questions find they are compelled by the spirit to leave this fraudulent organisation.
Yeah I'll give a few examples..... the blood oath, the apron, the secret handshakes, just to name a few. Stop this. Read your Bible to know the real Jesus, not Lucifers brother. That is not the Jesus of Christianity.
No evidence masonry had anything to do with ancient Christianity.... Ancient temples were about animal sacrifice...not about handshakes...give me a break!
Says who not history
Apparently youve never heard of the kaballah
did you say the church that Jesus founded had a schism? so Jesus planted a flawed church that could not hold up against the powers of evil? so its sounds as if you're saying Jesus church wasn't going to hold up - is this correct?
the secrecy like the masons, was mormons claim that the non levite 12 appostles were set apart and got the priesthood even tho NO non levite by law and tradition could hold priesthood. Even if christ gave them the priesthood, IN SECRET (no mention in the bible) that makes it a SCHISM.. All priesthood relegions, those who followed peter rather than Paul's teaching on grace is a SCHISM a CULT.... The dispensations all covered in the lds church but Pauls dispensation REMOVED and replaced with Joe smith as the final dispensation.... FAITH GRACE and ONLY THEN WORKS and the finished works of christ who died for us on the cross, was the truth and how to be saved, 1 corithians 15:1-4 Anythig added to that is A CULT adn SCHISMS.. The truth shall set you free. Gods house is a house of order not confusion......
Yes. Men did insert their own agendas into the Church and doctrine. I mean did Jesus actually institute the Nicene Creed? Nope. A group of men voted on it.
Interesting, a little dismissive if you ask me.
B to the MC D!!!!!
Wow. Gaslighting
If he was a fraud he was very confident. Yep, nailed it, he was a fraud
Bon Jovi you said it not me. The real question is why would he base newly founded religious ceremonies on a completely fabricated ceremony of a secret society? To a Mason, the shared symbols are obviously numerous.
@@stevenr6033
Symbols are finite and ambiguous; there is no one symbol that is, in and of itself, limited to a sole group or interpretation.
To those of us who are both Masons and Latter-day Saints, it's clear that the shared symbols correlate to different subject matter, are used in different contexts and are used for different purposes.
@@latter-daytemplar7156 I pray God will open your eyes and give you discernment about the church of LDS because you have been deceived by a false prophet. I only say this with love and respect. I mean no offense. But please, as I’m praying, please pray that God will give you more light.
@@stevenr6033
Your baseless, subjective opinion is received. I hope that you may also be granted the discernment needed to differentiate between unsubstantiated gossip/rumor (like what you have shared here) and truth.
That stated, your prayers are appreciated.
@@latter-daytemplar7156
What is your opinion of Albert Pike and Manly P Hall? They stated unequivocally that Lucifer is the god of freemasonry.
I got an obvious question. If Joseph Smith was God's prophet then why didn't God protect him from being assassinated by a mob? If God can't stop an angry mob, he must not be that powerful right? God doesn't have to be all powerful even if he is real. But this begs the question: If you can't trust God to protect his own prophets, why would you trust him at all?
How would Mormons answer that? lol. I will post them in the comments under Mormon apologetic videos and see how they answer it. lol
tu pregunta es lo mas tonto que he visto , simplemente el ya habia cumplido su obra. Es como preguntar si Moises fue tan puro porque Dios no le prolongo la vida para entrar en la tierra prometida?
Just because God could do something doesn't mean he will, but you could still trust what's supposed to happen will under God. Maybe you are alluding to the problem of evil, why do bad things happen to good people- Brett actually covers that in his LDS Truth Claims videos
The christians, the Apostles and even Jesus Christ suffered and killed by evil people.
I don't see where The Book of Mormon limits the area to the small area which he described. The North American Heartland Model is the most convincing to me.
That is still a limited area model.
@@brettmajeske3525 By limited area I mean the limit placed on the geography by some who are certain it happened in Central America.
@@Hamann9631 I understand that, but it is important to distinguish claims. Many early saints thought the upper and lower lands mentioned were north and south america. The heartland theory is a different but still limited geographical model from the mesoamerica theory. I felt his comments were more about the appropriateness of a limited model, with meso being his example.
Why does the church hide/ keep quiet the “2nd anointing”? It seems sad that members believe that being sealed to their husband/wife in the sealing / marriage ritual as the final temple ordinance. When in fact there is a invite only “calling and election made sure” ordinance. And you will never have this happen without an already “achieved” nominating “worthy members” recommending your name to the prophet ? Obviously I’m not an elected member, I couldn’t tell you even if I was. …. But this is not how the scriptures teach about seeing the face of the Saviour. Those couples who go through this temple ritual are sworn to secrecy. It seems like a brotherhood elitism. Like they’re all in on a secret that most members don’t ever know exists.
Hate to break it to you but there are more ordinances after this life. That includes being called up as king and queen/exalted.
Joseph Smith exalts himself above Jesus and claims he has more followers than Jesus Christ and has done more than Jesus ever did... He was insane and mislead by sexual lust and greed for power... He is not a prophet of God... Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice and ALL we need to have eternal salvation... There are not 3 degrees of glory... You either believe that Jesus died and is enough for your sin or you don't... There is no in between.... There is no accepting the gospel of Jesus Christ once you die.... How can a person say I am going to not be with My God and My Jesus because I didn't attend your temple ceremonies and exalt myself here on earth? I am thankful God pulled me away from Mormonism... I never new I was good enough until I found the truth that Jesus is enough for my sins and my life... I am good because of Him... Not because I attend a certain church or perform certain rituals that I have to repeat on the "other side of the veil" the only one getting me on the other side of the veil will be my Jesus and my loved ones... Not some authority making me repeat some mantra to enter with a secret handshake and code... I have been through the Mormon temple and received endowments And that is what they tell you... When you die you are pulled into the veil and you will state the name you received in the temple and certain words and then you get to enter into the eternity.... everyone gets the same name on the day they receive their endowments.... it's amazing that's why they don't like you to share the name that you get so you don't think that they're just making it up which they are making it up it's all fake and Creepy weird just like the masons...
Way to get every point wrong.
Google Mormon doctrine vs Christian doctrine. You'll see clearly that the Latter Day Saints have the bible together better than the Christians. This is proof positive the Latter Day Saint persuasion is from above. Otherwise, how how would you explain that the Latter Day Saints have scripture together better than the Christians?
@@richardholmes5676 I don't need to Google any doctrine about mormon vs Christianity... I WAS a mormon for over half my life... I know what the truth is about Mormon doctrine... and that's basically all it is is man-made Mormon doctrines... God knew what he was doing when he had the Holy Bible translated from Hebrew and Greek into English... He didn't need anyone to come after him and re-do what His Holy Spirit did in writing the KJV. But Joseph Smith seemed to try and out-do Jesus and God by making up his own religion which God hates... God hates religion and vomits at the ways man tries to twist his Love and Grace into a life of Works and elevating of thyself.
@@WarriorsForWalter I take it you're not Catholic!?
It always blows my mind how far the few deep researching active members have to go to reconcile church history, revelations and doctrine.
Church doctrine is -- and has always been -- that revelations come directly from God. That's literally the original premise of this church. Yet, those who defend this belief system have to bend that claim substantially; more so in this video than I've seen before.
The temple ceremony was inspired by masons because God was like "screw it, Joseph, just lift a few pages from the masons for the endowment ceremony"? The priesthood ban was racist and incorrect, but God says nothing in rebuke until 1978? I respect your tenacity in finding justifications for your beliefs, and I feel for you, but is vanity... actually, worse than vanity. It does harm.
You give cover to moderates who do not understand how much you're taking with a grain of salt. These are people who live on the church's claims at face value. They are uninformed victims of a high-demand ideology that cannot even reconcile its revelations with each other and cannot reconcile that variance in its doctrine. They pay 10% of their much-needed income to the LDS church and rely on the church to [ultimately] solve their problems for them in exchange for devout obedience. This is a corrupt institution.
This is why the LDS church made me an atheist. I'd give anything to believe that I am immortal again, but the lengths that you have to go for justification are irrevocably damning.
It is simple. God created you spiritually. He beat death so we also will resurrect. You are immortal. All of it is in the scriptures. It is the most beautiful and glorious thing. Through Christ we can live with God again. Everything brings seed after its kind. God created us for we are His work and glory- we are literally his offspring spiritually. I don’t know what’s so hard or damning about that! It is empowering and awesome to know this life is worth it and my life is important to God.
Joseph Smith: The Great Synthesizer of Information
Including information that was not available during his time..
Proof that Joseph Smith was either a prophet or a timelord
@@thelatterdayarbiter More like a Conman , liar , false prophet, plagiarizer, pedophile etc
Lies!!!!!!
What are the lies my friend?
Quid est veritas?
U need to read your Bible. I’m sorry but the Mormon church is not true. We are the Gadianton robbers, with our secret combinations done in the temple.
@@thelogos8319
I'm sorry that you feel this way. It should be noted that nothing in the Church's temple qualifies as secret combinations; in addition, nothing about the Church itself merits comparison to the Gadianton robbers.
Satan has a counterfeit for everything. Yes we have oaths and covenants with God. Satan also has those- but instead of the covenants bringing you closer to God, Satans lead to loss of freedom and death. God supports His children in the end. His Son died for them. Satan doesn’t support his children- he doesn’t love them and didn’t create them. God loves us.