Spike was able to bite the girl in the Bronze becuase Dru had killed her first. Interesting loop-hole that Spike can feed once the person is dead, but likely only recently dead so the blood is available for feeding.
Its always fun watching these and your predictions, and we're all sitting back like: I can neither confirm nor deny your speculations for fear of spoilers Lol
10:51 His voice reminded me so so much of Lucifer's voice! I always thought spike and Lucifer are a liiittle bit alike, because of the bad boy appearance. And spike and dawn's interaction remind me as well of Lucifer's and Trixie's interactions. So cute, love it!
Crush is an important episode going forward. Spike's infatuation with Buffy now reaching crazy levels, stealing Buffy's clothing, and have Harmony (possibly the most entertaning character in the Buffyverse) dress up as Buffy. We have the Domino effect here of Dawn crushing on Spike, Spike crushing on Buffy etc, and great comedy moment with Xander getting jealous about the fact that he is no longer Dawn's crush
Buffy and Spike's relationship is on another level than it was with Angel, I mean, I personally think that Spike's character takes a radical turn for Buffy, it's quite curious, isn't it? They began as enemies and little by little we see how something begins between the two, I really think that none of the characters know what they really have between the two, is it love, affection or simply attraction and sexual desire? still, I always liked Spike much more than Angel, in the end Spike ends up showing Buffy much more than Angel did for her
Don't know if you've already seen the next Buffy episode, but I'm going to make one light-hearted prediction: You are going to perk up and say, "HEL-LO THERE" early in the episode. XD
Sometimes the best thing comes to those that wait! I met my fiancé a year before I was due to graduate. I was working a summer job. Not looking for anyone because I needed to focus on my last year of uni. It's been more than 8 years now and thankfully we are still very happy!
Oh, I don't think Buffy reciprocates at ALL. She didn't even pretend to like him to try and save herself. This episode was definitely a turning point for Spike's character in that he had the chance to go back to Dru, go back to who he was. But we've watched him progress--willingly or not--the past few seasons.
@@parkerboy795 you don’t leave your mother and sister with people you don’t trust, period. Makes no sense. She kept showing up asking for his help with a lot more than just watching her sister and mother. That’s not “just tolerating”. bc she goes out of her way to get help from him on several occasions. The whole “do you trust me” and she said never was about the idea of a romantic and genuine relationship between them. She trusted him with plenty of things, just not a relationship with him.
@@daniig62 Unless I'm remembering wrong, I don't she left them around him. He was around. She didn't like him being at her house. More like demanding. Sometimes with a bribe or a punch. That kind of is because she still hates him at this point.
@@parkerboy795 …….her demanding him to do something doesn’t mean she doesn’t trust him with her family. And yes, she goes out of her way several times to ask for his help regarding a lot of things, including keeping an eye out on Dawn and Joyce.
I didn't like how they made light of the stalking Spike was doing. So many don't understand the dangers of that. The second thing is Spike has tried killing Buffy since season 2 even up until season 5. To pair themtogether would be insane. It was never my favorite storyline. She views Spike like she views Xander. "Friend Zone" if that. And the difference between Angel and Spike was when she met Angel he was trying to help her out, not kill her. She didn't know who he was or what he was. And regardless the same problems she had with Angel (which made him leave Sunnydale for L.A. and his own show) she was going to have with Spike anyway. The "pairing" if Buffy and Spike to me, was more moving backwards and sane ol same ol.. I mean he did kill 2 Slayers to boot. I myself was revolted by the storyline. For so many reasons. Personal too When a female treats guys in her furlce like "trash" and guts call her a "bitca" it's for a reason because there are times a girl treats a guy nice and he takes the signals the wrong way and to him it's a sign of "oh I can hit it" I'm a Gay guy from NYC, The Ghetto of the Bronx. In June of 2005 I had a situation where I went to a convenience store where three guys used to work and ny uncle caught one of the guys who worked there liked me. I ignored it because I was already in a relationship with my ex at the time and I just didn't like the guy that way at all. So even if I was single nothing would have happened. Well, one day he tried forcing himself on me at the store!! While his friends laughed. I'm 5'7 to yus 6'4. I was so upset. His co-worker Says "Hey don't be upset he likes you". I'm like WTF??. I was truly frightened. Many people think and I hate to say it like this especially in the stray community because a guy is Gay we just want P3n1s. No definitely not the case This is why the whole Buffy Spike storyline started to turn my stomach
I'm sorry that happened to you. I can understand why you feel the way you do. I'm older and used to hang out in some seedy gay bars with my gay guy friends back in the '70s and the scene was similar to what you mentioned, but things began to change when hookups could literally cost you your life. I'm sad to hear people still make those assumptions. While I understand personal things can influence the way we see even fictional characters, I still like Spike much more than Angel and I believe that's because of James Marsters and his amazing acting. Also from many things I've read, Joss Whedon resented the fan reaction to Spike and wrote things like stalker Spike, but JM was that good of an actor that some of us, at least myself, were able to give Spike some leeway, just like Angel lovers were able to forgive some things Angel did, including stalking Buffy both as Angel and Angelus. Mileage may vary, but in the end we're talking about fictional characters. And in the end, we'll be able to talk more about every single character, for now, we must remain spoiler-free 😊
@@daniig62 Who said that? I was happy when Angel left and he isnt part of season 5 so stay on topic. Buffy should have ended up with a human boyfriend. Dunno why you bring up one vampires shitty behaviour to try and excuse another.
Pleasantly surprised to see Elie and so many other fans enjoy this episode because I personally think it is one of the weakest of season 5. Feel that it comes across a bit like fan fiction and that they banked too much on the fans' goodwill over Drusilla. The episode itself did little to remind us of why Drusilla was so special for Spike and just expected us to gasp in shock at the significance of "I'd kill Drusilla for you."
Strongly disagree, on both statements. This episode was one of the strongest stand-alones: It had character development, big revelation, a visit from an iconic character, a twist at the end, great acting, humor, drama, Harmony being a twat... I don't know what your definition for weak is but it ain't mine. As for Drusilla, if you know enough about Spike and Dru's past and how vampires behave it shouldn't really sursprise you that Spike ended up dumping her for the Slayer he's been in love with for a while now and HOW he dumps her. Him offering to off her for Buffy is meant to show how strong his love/obsession for Buffy is. Him giving up his old self (dumping Dru, being hesitant about eating that girl, turning on evil, his nature, moving on to Buffy...) is a huge turning point. He's not changed, but he's chang-ing. Offing Dru is just one of the things that lock that in. Spike/William always makes big changes in himself when he wants to leave his past behind. Dru WAS a big part of who he used to be, and now it's a big part of his old self he wants to leave behind. And so, he wants to show that to Buffy. Makes sense. Don't forget, Spike's a vampire and Dru was his one and only love. He doesn't know how to show love to a human. Just last ep he was going to give Buffy a box of chocolates from the trash and now he thinks that by doing to Buffy what he was going to do to Dru after Lovers Walk will get Buffy to love him. This is good writing. Very consistent.
My definition of weak is an episode with, in my opinion, contrived plot and stilted dialogue in service of a storyline that isn't the most meaningful. Dawn's crush on Spike, Drusilla coming back, Harmony seeking revenge, and Spike saying he would kill Dru then not actually doing it all seem like things they forced the characters to do to get the plot from point A to point B. You are accurate in your description of Spike's character. But how much of that was actually in this episode as opposed to from the rest of the series? Compare this episode to Fool For Love, where we actually see those character defining moments for Spike play out. In this episode he says he loves Buffy, says he'll kill Dru, says it's something intense and once in a life (or in his case, death) time... But nothing on screen lives up to those grand proclamations.
@@judson9223 Dawn's crush came out of nowhere, I'll give you that. But Drusilla is a continuation of the Angel episodes and Harmony is a continuation of, well, Harmony being Harmony (with perhaps a closure). Moreover, Drusilla in this episode, as I've explain, serves as Spike's past which he's trying to leave behind, so she very much belongs in this episode. I don't think Spike (and Buffy) letting her go is any more of a weak point for an episode than any other episode where Buffy (or whoever) lets the villain go. It's a series issue, not an episode issue. You're right, but you're also forgetting something important about Spike's character: He's confused. He ALWAYS has an identity crisis. It's not so surprising that he says one thing, then does the other, then changes his mind, then does something entirely different.. If anything, I wouldn't expect anything else from him, it's very true to the character. His big speech to Buffy too. Spike's a fool for love and this episode solidifies what's been established in FFL. FFL is a masterpiece, probably the best stand-along of the entire series, so I wouldn't compare the two. But I do see Crush as a continuation of it. Not an extension, but as a way for the writers to materialize what we've been told before. Another reason why Dru is such an important part of it. Dawn isn't, but Dru is.
It pisses me off that Spike has never met the 'real' buffy they have never been friends or laughed together and she's never shown him love. What he is feeling is a weird sexual infatuation and fetish. Creepy problematic behaviours like stalking her, the shrine and stealing her underwear. That would get a real person jail time. If this was an ugly fat guy from college he would be in jail but because it's Spike people (incuding the writers) feel sorry for him or think it's cute. It's messed up.
You don't need to be friends or laugh together to fall in love. You don't even need to be shown love back to fall in love. Buffy never fell in love with Xander either. Love is not something specifically defined or controlled. Buffy and Spike have known each other for years. Spike knew enough about her friends to break them up in York Factor and he would hang out with her family and listen to their stories. He knew things about Buffy she wouldn't even admit to herself (for example, his speech in Lovers Walk). Should I remind you that Buffy "fell in love" with Angel before she knew anything about him, including that he's a vampire. Was that fetish too? Doesn't THAT piss you off? Angel, ENSOULED, admitted to have "fallen in love" with a 14/15-year-old Buffy the moment he saw her from across the street as she was walking down the school steps with her girlfriends sucking on a lollypop. He didn't know her, he just "loved her." That "Spordelia." Definitely not "the real Buffy." He then went on to watch her in her bathroom from the bushes outside her house, watch her sleep, and lurk (aka stalk) around for 4(!) years. That's creep 101! And to make things worse, he was 26 (in human years) when he slept with a 17-year-old, which is a felony in CA, not to mention disgusting. He did all that WITH A SOUL. It's messed up that you don't seem to have a problem with that. Doesn't THAT piss you off? Spike, as opposed to Angel, DIDN'T have a soul, therefore his understanding of right and wrong was limited. The writers don't feel sorry for him at at. On the contrary, they emphasized how wrong all this was. Spike was heartbroken at the end because he didn't understand what he did wrong. Because, surprise! He's a souless vampire and the only love he's ever known was for Drusilla, he doesn't know how to love like human. So I really don't understand why you hold him to the same standards in the first place.
@@moonystic9417 Why do you assume I don't have a problem with Angel? Every time i talk about how disgusting Spike is his fans try and justify it and compare him to Angel. One inappropriate partner for Buffy doesn't make it okay for another to be the same or worse it's twisted logic. Angel and Joyce were clear why Buffy and a vampire wouldn't work in S3 and I hate how they just rehash the same storyline but with a much more sadistic twist. In any event Angel didn't stalk Buffy because he wanted to steal her underwear or sniff her clothing. He was chosen by the Powers that be to help Buffy and the helpless on his path to atonement. Whereas Spike chooses to be 'good' when Buffys around cos he has a twisted fantasy.
@@theprodigalAnd yet you didn't make that "creepy problematic behaviours, it's so messed up people think it's cute" comment about Angel under any reaction videos, did you? If you did, then I take my words back. If not, then you can see why I'm calling out on your hypocrisy about Angel (which, based on your comment about "same storylines," you compare to Spike yourself). But I cannot take back the part about Spike either way, because you willingly and conveniently "forget" that Spike has what we call "extenuating circumstances," i.e. lack of soul. Unless you're unaware that Spike is soulless, you're being dishonest. Are you or are you not aware that Spike was soulless when he did those bad things? People feel sorry for Spike because it's like a baby being yelled at when he doesn't know what he did wrong. Because it's a baby. That's what it's like not having a soul. Are you "pissed off" and "concerned" when people show sympathy toward a crying baby who did something wrong, too? Your comments do suggest that. As for Angel, I'm sorry but did TPTB tell him to look into Buffy's bathroom? What, to protect her from the evil soap? Did they tell him to watch her sleep? To not tell her when he's watching her from the dark? To be in her bedroom while she's out hugging her stuffed animal? To date her? To groom her? To have sex with her? He KNEW it was wrong, yet he did on his own accord. Are you actually justifying THIS behavior? Rhetorical question, you just did in your reply. So you don't get to be "concerned" and "pissed off." Are you or are you not aware that Angel DID have a soul when he did those (and other) bad things? You say Spike "chose" to be good because of Buffy, but are you aware that Angel didn't do shit until after he "met" Buffy? BECAUSE he "met" Buffy? And are you aware that Angel was forced to be good by a soul? That it's not really his choice? No one's justifying Spike's behavior, this is looking at the big picture. Even on trials, they don't just automatically call out "guilty" even if they know for a fact that the defendant is guilty. What you're basically doing is picking and choosing to make your argument. This is not a concern comment you're making, this is an anti-Spike rant. (Spoilers) They didn't rehash the storyline. Angel had a curse, Spike didn't; Angel had a soul, Spike had to fight his nature without one; Buffy was a teenager with her whole future ahead of her when she was with Angel, she had yet to experience life and other relationships, with Spike she was an adult and capable of making adult decisions for herself. She also finally realized that she would never be normal, therefore she can't have a normal relationship anyway. Two different cases only with similar strokes. Besides, Angel didn't exactly deserve the credit for leaving, it took 3 years, one broken curse, the Mayor, and Joyce for him to make the move. He WAS being selfish while, again, ensouled. After Spike gets his soul, you can tell that his past behavior wasn't him, it was the demon. True or false? Buffy understood that too, true or false? Buffy had a part in this "sadistic twist" knowing that beating up Spike, sometimes just coz, turned him on. True or false? Faith claimed slaying makes Slayers hungry and horny, and we got a confirmation for both with Buffy. That Buffy has a fetish or a few too. True or false? Buffy sexually, mentally, and physically abused Spike. True or false? Buffy did have a soul when she did that, true or false? Every single character on the show has done some twisted shit at one time or another. True or false? Why are you pining it all on Spike? Why do you draw the line with a soulless being? Why do you choose to focus on that little time period when there are 12 seasons? If you're not a fan of Spike's or certain plotlines, that's fine. But don't hide behind excuses and make a hypocrite out of yourself.
@@moonystic9417 Same storyline based on vampire and vampire only. They still cannot work based on the same reasons. You clearly have a strong obsession with Spike yourself and it's replies like this that still blow my mind years later that people will defend Spike to death. Angel's story was completely different and yes now looking back some of them were creepy but him looking in Buffys bathroom was in no way for sexual reasons and fans of Spike trying to take scenes out of context or make it what it wasn't is pathetic. He certainly didn't groom her either if this was how the relationship was portrayed I don't think the show would have made it past season 2. Buffy did NOT sexually abuse spike and i cannot fathom spike fans turning what happened in a 'comedy' episode to justify a later disgusting storyline. Unless ive missed something. And I couldn't give a fuck that she 'mentally or physically' abused him as you say he has no soul and deserves to be staked.
@@theprodigal (spoilers) Oh, the irony. You’ve bothered to make a hate comment toward other people because, using your words, you’re “pissed off” over their fondness of a fictional character. And I’M obsessed? All I did was comment on your (public) comment, which was obviously purely derived from bitterness, as also evidenced by your last sentence. I’m fond of Spike, sure. But here’s the difference between us: I can still be objective. You can’t. It’s interesting that you did not answer my true or false questions. Could you at least answer this: Spike is completely changed after he got his soul, true or false? I didn’t once say Spike’s behavior wasn’t wrong, but you continue to refuse to acknowledge that one “minor” detail (the lack of soul). Of course the picture depicted is terrible when you omit it. But once you take that detail into account, it changes the entire picture. And THAT’S why you ignore. You KNOW it undermines your argument. In the same vein, it's interesting that you only point at the bad (as per your personal negativity) and throw out the good. Did you just block it all out or what? Angel claimed to have fallen for Buffy on the same day he looked into her bathroom. Since we’ve established that A)you can’t be in love with someone you don’t know and B)Angel went on to date and sleep with Buffy, and C) TPTB did not send Angel to do any of that stuff, looking into her bathroom cannot be out of love either. So, to clarify my point: Angel was ATTRACTED to Buffy the moment he saw her! THAT's what made that and what follows (which you bluntly ignored of course) sexual. You mentioned that in real life Spike would be in jail. Newsflash: so would Angel. Do you think there’s a single courthouse, or a parent to a minor, that would grant what Angel has done as anything other than the behavior of a sex offender? And it doesn’t end with looking into a bathroom, I should remind you. You say that looking back "some" of it is creepy, and I'm assuming you are aware of the soul... yet you still defend him and attack Spike for the same reasons. Plus, you display great naivety regarding the rest. Can I ask, how old are you? You don’t seem to know much about the 90’s either. There’s plenty of stuff on the show that wouldn’t fly today. The romanization of a relationship between a 16/26 year-old couple included. Which, yes, was romanticized based on scenes such as Angel claiming to have fallen for a child by watching her from across the street and Buffy responding with “that’s beautiful.” You don’t recognize grooming when you see it either, apparently. You also don’t seem to realize that women can be sex offenders toward men (and women) too. They can be abusers too. Buffy herself has admitted that she behaved like a monster and (sexually) used Spike. That's the one "true or false" you did answer, and not surprisingly it's the one you strongly disagree with (despite what the show shows). Says a lot. As a mental exercise, (re)watch the scenes where Buffy (aka the woman) is the one who demands sex from Spike (aka the man) and/or forces herself on him when he says no, and switch the genders. I highly recommend Gone as a start. It’s very, VERY concerning that you see that as comedy or "comedy." It’s especially concerning that you think that ANYONE deserves to be mentally, physically OR sexually abused. The writers would disagree, Buffy herself would disagree, and any democratic state in the world would disagree. Thank God you're in the minority. Which should tell you something. On the plus side, thank you for finally admitting that you have a bias and you don’t really care about facts. Or about crying babies. Until you “give a fuck,” do me a favor and don’t try to walk that moral high ground. It’s pathetic. And do yourself a favor by letting go that frustration over a fictional character. I’m officially concerned for you mental health. And for your kids if you have any. Time to grow up, and then rewatch the show with adult eyes.
![GEEK TIMË [OFFICIAL AUDIO]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ry-6RvkH880/mqdefault.jpg)
'I'm drowning in ya Summers' - love that scene. Spike is so deeply infatuated with her. Everyone's favourite creepy stalker :D
Not mine.
This was Buffy's Valentine's Day episode. Only Buffy could do a Valentine's Day episode like this - complete madness with Spike!
Buffy - treats him like shit
Also Buffy - spike, I’m trusting you to protect my mom and sister
Pick a struggle Buffy lmao
Spike was able to bite the girl in the Bronze becuase Dru had killed her first. Interesting loop-hole that Spike can feed once the person is dead, but likely only recently dead so the blood is available for feeding.
Spikes face at the end when she locks him out always makes me feel so bad for him despite the fact he chained her up. James marsters is that good.
It’s the puppy dog eyes
Its always fun watching these and your predictions, and we're all sitting back like:
I can neither confirm nor deny your speculations for fear of spoilers
Lol
This 1000% 😂
My favorite show of all time grew up watching them when they first aired on TV, glad you love Buffy The Vampire Slayer also 😎
Get some rest Elie and don't you dare get Bob sick.
10:51 His voice reminded me so so much of Lucifer's voice! I always thought spike and Lucifer are a liiittle bit alike, because of the bad boy appearance. And spike and dawn's interaction remind me as well of Lucifer's and Trixie's interactions. So cute, love it!
Crush is an important episode going forward. Spike's infatuation with Buffy now reaching crazy levels, stealing Buffy's clothing, and have Harmony (possibly the most entertaning character in the Buffyverse) dress up as Buffy. We have the Domino effect here of Dawn crushing on Spike, Spike crushing on Buffy etc, and great comedy moment with Xander getting jealous about the fact that he is no longer Dawn's crush
Ooo I have that same sex bell! The twist thing is anytime I ring it the cat is the only one quickly responds. lol.
Buffy and Spike's relationship is on another level than it was with Angel, I mean, I personally think that Spike's character takes a radical turn for Buffy, it's quite curious, isn't it? They began as enemies and little by little we see how something begins between the two, I really think that none of the characters know what they really have between the two, is it love, affection or simply attraction and sexual desire? still, I always liked Spike much more than Angel, in the end Spike ends up showing Buffy much more than Angel did for her
Don't know if you've already seen the next Buffy episode, but I'm going to make one light-hearted prediction:
You are going to perk up and say, "HEL-LO THERE" early in the episode. XD
I love this episode too. And I love all your commentary!
This is like Christmas carol vampire version…
Sometimes the best thing comes to those that wait! I met my fiancé a year before I was due to graduate. I was working a summer job. Not looking for anyone because I needed to focus on my last year of uni. It's been more than 8 years now and thankfully we are still very happy!
Letsssgoooo
I sounded like that a few days ago 🥺
Oh, I don't think Buffy reciprocates at ALL. She didn't even pretend to like him to try and save herself. This episode was definitely a turning point for Spike's character in that he had the chance to go back to Dru, go back to who he was. But we've watched him progress--willingly or not--the past few seasons.
Yet…she won’t kill him. She keeps entrusting him with the lives of her mother and sister. Yet she treats him like shit through all of it.
@@daniig62 I don't think she really entrusted him with anything at this point. She more or less tolerated him because he was sort of harmless.
@@parkerboy795 you don’t leave your mother and sister with people you don’t trust, period. Makes no sense.
She kept showing up asking for his help with a lot more than just watching her sister and mother. That’s not “just tolerating”. bc she goes out of her way to get help from him on several occasions.
The whole “do you trust me” and she said never was about the idea of a romantic and genuine relationship between them. She trusted him with plenty of things, just not a relationship with him.
@@daniig62 Unless I'm remembering wrong, I don't she left them around him. He was around. She didn't like him being at her house.
More like demanding. Sometimes with a bribe or a punch. That kind of is because she still hates him at this point.
@@parkerboy795 …….her demanding him to do something doesn’t mean she doesn’t trust him with her family.
And yes, she goes out of her way several times to ask for his help regarding a lot of things, including keeping an eye out on Dawn and Joyce.
This is one of the rare episodes in season five that isn't as enjoyable as the rest of the season.
What ?! i didnt know there was people not liking this episode
Your "Ring for sex" bell is negated by Bob. Bob is a turn off. The bell and Bob cannot be in the same room.
I didn't like how they made light of the stalking Spike was doing. So many don't understand the dangers of that.
The second thing is Spike has tried killing Buffy since season 2 even up until season 5. To pair themtogether would be insane. It was never my favorite storyline. She views Spike like she views Xander. "Friend Zone" if that.
And the difference between Angel and Spike was when she met Angel he was trying to help her out, not kill her. She didn't know who he was or what he was. And regardless the same problems she had with Angel (which made him leave Sunnydale for L.A. and his own show) she was going to have with Spike anyway. The "pairing" if Buffy and Spike to me, was more moving backwards and sane ol same ol.. I mean he did kill 2 Slayers to boot.
I myself was revolted by the storyline. For so many reasons. Personal too
When a female treats guys in her furlce like "trash" and guts call her a "bitca" it's for a reason because there are times a girl treats a guy nice and he takes the signals the wrong way and to him it's a sign of "oh I can hit it"
I'm a Gay guy from NYC, The Ghetto of the Bronx. In June of 2005 I had a situation where I went to a convenience store where three guys used to work and ny uncle caught one of the guys who worked there liked me. I ignored it because I was already in a relationship with my ex at the time and I just didn't like the guy that way at all. So even if I was single nothing would have happened. Well, one day he tried forcing himself on me at the store!! While his friends laughed. I'm 5'7 to yus 6'4. I was so upset. His co-worker Says "Hey don't be upset he likes you". I'm like WTF??. I was truly frightened.
Many people think and I hate to say it like this especially in the stray community because a guy is Gay we just want P3n1s. No definitely not the case
This is why the whole Buffy Spike storyline started to turn my stomach
So in short, Angel gets a pass for everything he’s done. We know.
I'm sorry that happened to you. I can understand why you feel the way you do. I'm older and used to hang out in some seedy gay bars with my gay guy friends back in the '70s and the scene was similar to what you mentioned, but things began to change when hookups could literally cost you your life. I'm sad to hear people still make those assumptions.
While I understand personal things can influence the way we see even fictional characters, I still like Spike much more than Angel and I believe that's because of James Marsters and his amazing acting. Also from many things I've read, Joss Whedon resented the fan reaction to Spike and wrote things like stalker Spike, but JM was that good of an actor that some of us, at least myself, were able to give Spike some leeway, just like Angel lovers were able to forgive some things Angel did, including stalking Buffy both as Angel and Angelus. Mileage may vary, but in the end we're talking about fictional characters. And in the end, we'll be able to talk more about every single character, for now, we must remain spoiler-free 😊
I'm glad someone else agrees the storyline is so twisted. stalking and stealing underwear is not empathic behaviour it's problematic
@@theprodigal but torturing girls and massacring entire families like Angel did, is hot. Totally forgivable.
@@daniig62 Who said that? I was happy when Angel left and he isnt part of season 5 so stay on topic. Buffy should have ended up with a human boyfriend. Dunno why you bring up one vampires shitty behaviour to try and excuse another.
Pleasantly surprised to see Elie and so many other fans enjoy this episode because I personally think it is one of the weakest of season 5.
Feel that it comes across a bit like fan fiction and that they banked too much on the fans' goodwill over Drusilla. The episode itself did little to remind us of why Drusilla was so special for Spike and just expected us to gasp in shock at the significance of "I'd kill Drusilla for you."
Strongly disagree, on both statements.
This episode was one of the strongest stand-alones: It had character development, big revelation, a visit from an iconic character, a twist at the end, great acting, humor, drama, Harmony being a twat... I don't know what your definition for weak is but it ain't mine.
As for Drusilla, if you know enough about Spike and Dru's past and how vampires behave it shouldn't really sursprise you that Spike ended up dumping her for the Slayer he's been in love with for a while now and HOW he dumps her. Him offering to off her for Buffy is meant to show how strong his love/obsession for Buffy is. Him giving up his old self (dumping Dru, being hesitant about eating that girl, turning on evil, his nature, moving on to Buffy...) is a huge turning point. He's not changed, but he's chang-ing.
Offing Dru is just one of the things that lock that in. Spike/William always makes big changes in himself when he wants to leave his past behind. Dru WAS a big part of who he used to be, and now it's a big part of his old self he wants to leave behind. And so, he wants to show that to Buffy. Makes sense.
Don't forget, Spike's a vampire and Dru was his one and only love. He doesn't know how to show love to a human. Just last ep he was going to give Buffy a box of chocolates from the trash and now he thinks that by doing to Buffy what he was going to do to Dru after Lovers Walk will get Buffy to love him.
This is good writing. Very consistent.
My definition of weak is an episode with, in my opinion, contrived plot and stilted dialogue in service of a storyline that isn't the most meaningful. Dawn's crush on Spike, Drusilla coming back, Harmony seeking revenge, and Spike saying he would kill Dru then not actually doing it all seem like things they forced the characters to do to get the plot from point A to point B.
You are accurate in your description of Spike's character. But how much of that was actually in this episode as opposed to from the rest of the series? Compare this episode to Fool For Love, where we actually see those character defining moments for Spike play out. In this episode he says he loves Buffy, says he'll kill Dru, says it's something intense and once in a life (or in his case, death) time... But nothing on screen lives up to those grand proclamations.
@@judson9223 Dawn's crush came out of nowhere, I'll give you that. But Drusilla is a continuation of the Angel episodes and Harmony is a continuation of, well, Harmony being Harmony (with perhaps a closure). Moreover, Drusilla in this episode, as I've explain, serves as Spike's past which he's trying to leave behind, so she very much belongs in this episode. I don't think Spike (and Buffy) letting her go is any more of a weak point for an episode than any other episode where Buffy (or whoever) lets the villain go. It's a series issue, not an episode issue.
You're right, but you're also forgetting something important about Spike's character: He's confused. He ALWAYS has an identity crisis. It's not so surprising that he says one thing, then does the other, then changes his mind, then does something entirely different.. If anything, I wouldn't expect anything else from him, it's very true to the character. His big speech to Buffy too. Spike's a fool for love and this episode solidifies what's been established in FFL.
FFL is a masterpiece, probably the best stand-along of the entire series, so I wouldn't compare the two. But I do see Crush as a continuation of it. Not an extension, but as a way for the writers to materialize what we've been told before. Another reason why Dru is such an important part of it. Dawn isn't, but Dru is.
It pisses me off that Spike has never met the 'real' buffy they have never been friends or laughed together and she's never shown him love. What he is feeling is a weird sexual infatuation and fetish. Creepy problematic behaviours like stalking her, the shrine and stealing her underwear. That would get a real person jail time. If this was an ugly fat guy from college he would be in jail but because it's Spike people (incuding the writers) feel sorry for him or think it's cute. It's messed up.
You don't need to be friends or laugh together to fall in love. You don't even need to be shown love back to fall in love. Buffy never fell in love with Xander either. Love is not something specifically defined or controlled.
Buffy and Spike have known each other for years. Spike knew enough about her friends to break them up in York Factor and he would hang out with her family and listen to their stories. He knew things about Buffy she wouldn't even admit to herself (for example, his speech in Lovers Walk).
Should I remind you that Buffy "fell in love" with Angel before she knew anything about him, including that he's a vampire. Was that fetish too? Doesn't THAT piss you off?
Angel, ENSOULED, admitted to have "fallen in love" with a 14/15-year-old Buffy the moment he saw her from across the street as she was walking down the school steps with her girlfriends sucking on a lollypop. He didn't know her, he just "loved her." That "Spordelia." Definitely not "the real Buffy." He then went on to watch her in her bathroom from the bushes outside her house, watch her sleep, and lurk (aka stalk) around for 4(!) years. That's creep 101! And to make things worse, he was 26 (in human years) when he slept with a 17-year-old, which is a felony in CA, not to mention disgusting. He did all that WITH A SOUL. It's messed up that you don't seem to have a problem with that. Doesn't THAT piss you off?
Spike, as opposed to Angel, DIDN'T have a soul, therefore his understanding of right and wrong was limited. The writers don't feel sorry for him at at. On the contrary, they emphasized how wrong all this was. Spike was heartbroken at the end because he didn't understand what he did wrong. Because, surprise! He's a souless vampire and the only love he's ever known was for Drusilla, he doesn't know how to love like human. So I really don't understand why you hold him to the same standards in the first place.
@@moonystic9417 Why do you assume I don't have a problem with Angel? Every time i talk about how disgusting Spike is his fans try and justify it and compare him to Angel. One inappropriate partner for Buffy doesn't make it okay for another to be the same or worse it's twisted logic. Angel and Joyce were clear why Buffy and a vampire wouldn't work in S3 and I hate how they just rehash the same storyline but with a much more sadistic twist.
In any event Angel didn't stalk Buffy because he wanted to steal her underwear or sniff her clothing. He was chosen by the Powers that be to help Buffy and the helpless on his path to atonement. Whereas Spike chooses to be 'good' when Buffys around cos he has a twisted fantasy.
@@theprodigalAnd yet you didn't make that "creepy problematic behaviours, it's so messed up people think it's cute" comment about Angel under any reaction videos, did you? If you did, then I take my words back. If not, then you can see why I'm calling out on your hypocrisy about Angel (which, based on your comment about "same storylines," you compare to Spike yourself).
But I cannot take back the part about Spike either way, because you willingly and conveniently "forget" that Spike has what we call "extenuating circumstances," i.e. lack of soul. Unless you're unaware that Spike is soulless, you're being dishonest.
Are you or are you not aware that Spike was soulless when he did those bad things?
People feel sorry for Spike because it's like a baby being yelled at when he doesn't know what he did wrong. Because it's a baby. That's what it's like not having a soul. Are you "pissed off" and "concerned" when people show sympathy toward a crying baby who did something wrong, too? Your comments do suggest that.
As for Angel, I'm sorry but did TPTB tell him to look into Buffy's bathroom? What, to protect her from the evil soap? Did they tell him to watch her sleep? To not tell her when he's watching her from the dark? To be in her bedroom while she's out hugging her stuffed animal? To date her? To groom her? To have sex with her? He KNEW it was wrong, yet he did on his own accord.
Are you actually justifying THIS behavior? Rhetorical question, you just did in your reply. So you don't get to be "concerned" and "pissed off."
Are you or are you not aware that Angel DID have a soul when he did those (and other) bad things?
You say Spike "chose" to be good because of Buffy, but are you aware that Angel didn't do shit until after he "met" Buffy? BECAUSE he "met" Buffy? And are you aware that Angel was forced to be good by a soul? That it's not really his choice?
No one's justifying Spike's behavior, this is looking at the big picture. Even on trials, they don't just automatically call out "guilty" even if they know for a fact that the defendant is guilty. What you're basically doing is picking and choosing to make your argument.
This is not a concern comment you're making, this is an anti-Spike rant.
(Spoilers)
They didn't rehash the storyline. Angel had a curse, Spike didn't; Angel had a soul, Spike had to fight his nature without one; Buffy was a teenager with her whole future ahead of her when she was with Angel, she had yet to experience life and other relationships, with Spike she was an adult and capable of making adult decisions for herself. She also finally realized that she would never be normal, therefore she can't have a normal relationship anyway. Two different cases only with similar strokes.
Besides, Angel didn't exactly deserve the credit for leaving, it took 3 years, one broken curse, the Mayor, and Joyce for him to make the move. He WAS being selfish while, again, ensouled.
After Spike gets his soul, you can tell that his past behavior wasn't him, it was the demon. True or false? Buffy understood that too, true or false?
Buffy had a part in this "sadistic twist" knowing that beating up Spike, sometimes just coz, turned him on. True or false?
Faith claimed slaying makes Slayers hungry and horny, and we got a confirmation for both with Buffy. That Buffy has a fetish or a few too. True or false?
Buffy sexually, mentally, and physically abused Spike. True or false? Buffy did have a soul when she did that, true or false?
Every single character on the show has done some twisted shit at one time or another. True or false?
Why are you pining it all on Spike? Why do you draw the line with a soulless being? Why do you choose to focus on that little time period when there are 12 seasons?
If you're not a fan of Spike's or certain plotlines, that's fine. But don't hide behind excuses and make a hypocrite out of yourself.
@@moonystic9417 Same storyline based on vampire and vampire only. They still cannot work based on the same reasons. You clearly have a strong obsession with Spike yourself and it's replies like this that still blow my mind years later that people will defend Spike to death.
Angel's story was completely different and yes now looking back some of them were creepy but him looking in Buffys bathroom was in no way for sexual reasons and fans of Spike trying to take scenes out of context or make it what it wasn't is pathetic. He certainly didn't groom her either if this was how the relationship was portrayed I don't think the show would have made it past season 2.
Buffy did NOT sexually abuse spike and i cannot fathom spike fans turning what happened in a 'comedy' episode to justify a later disgusting storyline. Unless ive missed something. And I couldn't give a fuck that she 'mentally or physically' abused him as you say he has no soul and deserves to be staked.
@@theprodigal
(spoilers)
Oh, the irony. You’ve bothered to make a hate comment toward other people because, using your words, you’re “pissed off” over their fondness of a fictional character. And I’M obsessed?
All I did was comment on your (public) comment, which was obviously purely derived from bitterness, as also evidenced by your last sentence.
I’m fond of Spike, sure. But here’s the difference between us: I can still be objective. You can’t.
It’s interesting that you did not answer my true or false questions. Could you at least answer this:
Spike is completely changed after he got his soul, true or false?
I didn’t once say Spike’s behavior wasn’t wrong, but you continue to refuse to acknowledge that one “minor” detail (the lack of soul). Of course the picture depicted is terrible when you omit it. But once you take that detail into account, it changes the entire picture. And THAT’S why you ignore. You KNOW it undermines your argument.
In the same vein, it's interesting that you only point at the bad (as per your personal negativity) and throw out the good. Did you just block it all out or what?
Angel claimed to have fallen for Buffy on the same day he looked into her bathroom. Since we’ve established that A)you can’t be in love with someone you don’t know and B)Angel went on to date and sleep with Buffy, and C) TPTB did not send Angel to do any of that stuff, looking into her bathroom cannot be out of love either.
So, to clarify my point: Angel was ATTRACTED to Buffy the moment he saw her! THAT's what made that and what follows (which you bluntly ignored of course) sexual.
You mentioned that in real life Spike would be in jail. Newsflash: so would Angel. Do you think there’s a single courthouse, or a parent to a minor, that would grant what Angel has done as anything other than the behavior of a sex offender?
And it doesn’t end with looking into a bathroom, I should remind you.
You say that looking back "some" of it is creepy, and I'm assuming you are aware of the soul... yet you still defend him and attack Spike for the same reasons. Plus, you display great naivety regarding the rest.
Can I ask, how old are you? You don’t seem to know much about the 90’s either. There’s plenty of stuff on the show that wouldn’t fly today. The romanization of a relationship between a 16/26 year-old couple included.
Which, yes, was romanticized based on scenes such as Angel claiming to have fallen for a child by watching her from across the street and Buffy responding with “that’s beautiful.” You don’t recognize grooming when you see it either, apparently.
You also don’t seem to realize that women can be sex offenders toward men (and women) too. They can be abusers too. Buffy herself has admitted that she behaved like a monster and (sexually) used Spike.
That's the one "true or false" you did answer, and not surprisingly it's the one you strongly disagree with (despite what the show shows). Says a lot.
As a mental exercise, (re)watch the scenes where Buffy (aka the woman) is the one who demands sex from Spike (aka the man) and/or forces herself on him when he says no, and switch the genders. I highly recommend Gone as a start.
It’s very, VERY concerning that you see that as comedy or "comedy."
It’s especially concerning that you think that ANYONE deserves to be mentally, physically OR sexually abused. The writers would disagree, Buffy herself would disagree, and any democratic state in the world would disagree.
Thank God you're in the minority. Which should tell you something.
On the plus side, thank you for finally admitting that you have a bias and you don’t really care about facts. Or about crying babies.
Until you “give a fuck,” do me a favor and don’t try to walk that moral high ground. It’s pathetic.
And do yourself a favor by letting go that frustration over a fictional character. I’m officially concerned for you mental health. And for your kids if you have any. Time to grow up, and then rewatch the show with adult eyes.