Copper said Shoal OR Hull failure. HE SAID BOTH .The problem with the shoal theory is that Canada coast guard went out to dive the shoals just after it happened and didn't see anything. No red paint. No broken rocks. Nothing. However Fitzgerald was carrying more than what she was designed for in 1975. And her Sister Ship the Arthur B Homer was scrapped after millions of dollars spent on lengthening her just a couple of years prior.
I think we taking the song a little to literally fellas... lol It was written to be a haunting telling of the Edmond Fitzgerald mixed with facts and romanticism of the experience from the crews eyes and it tried to give the listener a mental view of how it went down. I think the song did a great job of making the Edmond Fitzgerald a sentimental part of great lakes area. Also we've had 40 plus years of new information and THEORIES of what happened that day, Gordon wrote the song 1 year after she went down.
Gordon at that time had a Celtic melody to which he had no words- when the Fitz went down, the words flowed . Out of respect he wrote the lyrics, then actually wrote the song with lyrics in the dark.
I have studied this boat extensively. I have a list of 14 things that were wrong when the Fitzgerald went down. Captain Mc Sorely was a bonehead who rode that boat like a dog
Hypnotizing recollections, factual connect the dots examinations show true events. Never understood why Hollywood has not made a super thriller/ historical movie of this wreck ? Perfect Storm was amazing imagine the Fitz being made into a movie.
I can look at the course the Fitzgerald took on Lake Superior, and it's wrought with problems. Why are these 2 boats clear out in the middle of the Lakes in the first place??? Everything was fine on the Fitzgerald right till he made the turn at Michapitcoten Island and headed over six fathom shoal and by caribou island. Other than no radar working, everything was fine up to that point. So whatever happened was between Michapitcoten and Caribou Island obviously. I don't care what this man says. I believe that Captain Mc Sorely bottomed out somewhere in there. He was an all weather captain who ran at full throttle. The fact that he slowed down tells me that he knew something was seriously wrong. That man never slowed his ship down in open water. The Fitzgerald went through the Soo Locks more times than any other boat in 1975. Mc Sorely held the record. That tells us how hard he ran that boat and his crew. He would go through the Soo Locks low on fuel so he could get through faster. Then he would refuel afterwards. He was going to retire and was running that boat to the max with reckless abandon. That's why many sailor did not want to sail with him
I think the evidence is strongly against the notion that the Edmund Fitzgerald broke up on the surface. In contrast to the sinking of the Bradley and the Morrell, none of the Fitzgerald crew were recovered. The ship disappeared abruptly from the Andersen’s radar (it is implausible that both pieces of the ship would have plunged to the bottom immediately after breaking in two). Finally, the bow and stern would never be as close as they are if the ship had broken up on the surface. The physics just don’t make sense for any of this.
I agree as a sailor. If I may add, Mixter is dead set on pushing this "we discovered a crewman" thing. The deceased sailor is definitively not from the Fitzgerald as he is wearing a cork life vest. The Fitz was not equipped with cork life vests. He is most certainly a crewman of a French minesweeper that was lost on the lake during the World War 1 era.
Well. This is a good presentation overall. I don't agree with everything he says, but he does discuss many leading theories that I definitely do agree with about the sinking
Mc Sorely was a bonehead. You don't run a boat out in the middle of the Lake in a gail, unless you are crossing the lake for the cargo which the Fitzgerald was not. He should have just ran the southern end of the lake and went around Kewenaw point. That's what a smart Captain would do. His course would have been a hundred miles shorter. And when something went wrong and he had a list, he was 80 miles from shore. That's 4 hours away from beaching the boat to safety saving the crew. Modern captains don't do what Mc Sorely did. Even the 1000 footers hug the shoreline today during a storm. And they all have survived thus far. I think that he was "Hogging" the boat. He bottom out about dead center of the hull. Punched a hole in the bottom. That's why a broken fence rail. He broke the ships back basically. The 2 vents that blew off are because air was rapidly escaping the boat because water was flooding in.
For me , Fitzgerald tragedy reverts back to her exact Sister Ship, The Arthur B Homer. Millions of dollars spent on her legethening just to be scrapped a few years later? The blamed the economy yet older smaller vessels never got scrapped. Why didn't anyone buy the ship? Ether Homer did have some hull flaws as rumored by the shipyard workers and the Shipping Industry OR great lakes shipping industry is incredibly wasteful and foolish. Fitzgerald's last surviving leading engineer said Fitz and Homer weren't designed to be carrying the amount of cargo that they were in the 70's. Put added stress on the keel especiallyin bad weather... former Fitzgerald crew Richard Orgel's and Red Berger's testimony to the coast guard also put Fitzgerald's hull into question too.
This guy Ric Mixer reminds me of the guy with the silly hat at the nathans hot dog eating contest.His thoughts are just ludicrous it seems he just likes to stir the pot.A shame,since families were devastated.
The actual track of the Fitz is accurately known and confirmed by radar when it neared the shoal water area? Cooper had radar which would pretty accurately give a position of the fitz relative to the island. A CG shore station can triangulate a radio transmission with a slow count request to locate a vessel in distress at a given point in time but an entire track is real tough to get right. Shoal impact damage could have been to the front half of the boat which is buried. If Cooper at first said he thought the Fitz was through dangerous shoal water I have to believe him.
Shipwreck enthusiast like guys like Ric. He challenges people's long held opinions. I respect that. Even though I dont agree with all his theories. He seems to irritate the casuals though. People who dont know much about the wreck or ship or people who only know of the tragedy from the song.
She was carrying too much cargo than she was designed for. And I believe former Fitzgerald crew Richard Orgel and Red Burgner saying her hull flexed unusually mutch in heavy seas. Thats why nobody bought her sister ship even though millions were spent on her sister ship's lengthening just a gew years prior. Cooper said shoaling OR hull failure. Yes, He did say both in his audio interview in the 90s. But people cling to the shoal theory. I cant get behind the shoal theory due to the Canada's Coast Guard saying they found no broken rocks or red paint when they dived it just after the tragedy.
So has anyone attempted to get a permit from the Canadian government to attempt to visit/sonar the wreckage? Somone else's video said it's not illegal to visit the wreckage. You just need a permit. Does Rick think that modern equipment would provide enough definitive proof of the cause of the wreckage.
Rick has an incredible knowledge base and passion for the Fitz, which is a fitting tribute to the crew. He needs to stop giving Gordon Lightfoot a hard time for the creative license he took in the song. Every time Rick is interviewed or recorded he drones on about it and it takes away from the rest of the presentation.
He said Cleveland because that's where she was going for dry dock is what I seen in another comment yeah they where going to Detroit but the end was Cleveland dry docks
I knew he'd have to mention that some of the lyrics in Gordon Lightfoot's song about the wreck were incorrect. Every lecture he goes on about it as well as few other things like sending Jacques Cousteau society a copy of one of his videos just to demonstrate that he had aquired diagrams or blueprints of a sub that that belonged to the society that they wouldnt provide. It really comes across as petty and spiteful. It's just a song, it's not intended to be an accurate account of history. There's many instances of him essentially saying he knows better and should be regarded as the premier expert on the subject. For example him saying Jacques Cousteau had nothing to do with it other than getting his picture taken in Detroit .It's petty and off-putting despite his obvious expertise.
@@CKritNinja no disrespect intended and I commend anyone that can take constructive criticism so positively as yourself. But there's no disputing you know your stuff!
@CKritNinja I think you're one of the most humble approachable people who are in the subject matter expert category on Great Lakes Shipwrecks. These are emotional stories, especially the Fitzgerald. A fine line to walk! I just ordered your book Tattletale Sounds. Thanks for your knowledge on the subject
Ric is an amazing source of knowledge on this topic. Great research.
This man is so well spoken, I could listen to him for hours. Great episode Richard. I enjoyed it thoroughly.
I believe what Captain Cooper said about the Fitzgerald. He was a Captain, he was there, in the storm that night. He wasn't trying to sell books.
Copper said Shoal OR Hull failure. HE SAID BOTH .The problem with the shoal theory is that Canada coast guard went out to dive the shoals just after it happened and didn't see anything. No red paint. No broken rocks. Nothing.
However Fitzgerald was carrying more than what she was designed for in 1975. And her Sister Ship the Arthur B Homer was scrapped after millions of dollars spent on lengthening her just a couple of years prior.
I think we taking the song a little to literally fellas... lol
It was written to be a haunting telling of the Edmond Fitzgerald mixed with facts and romanticism of the experience from the crews eyes and it tried to give the listener a mental view of how it went down.
I think the song did a great job of making the Edmond Fitzgerald a sentimental part of great lakes area. Also we've had 40 plus years of new information and THEORIES of what happened that day, Gordon wrote the song 1 year after she went down.
Gordon at that time had a Celtic melody to which he had no words- when the Fitz went down, the words flowed . Out of respect he wrote the lyrics, then actually wrote the song with lyrics in the dark.
I have studied this boat extensively. I have a list of 14 things that were wrong when the Fitzgerald went down. Captain Mc Sorely was a bonehead who rode that boat like a dog
List them?
Excellent interview sir can’t wait to get the book
Hypnotizing recollections, factual connect the dots examinations show true events. Never understood why Hollywood has not made a super thriller/ historical movie of this wreck ? Perfect Storm was amazing imagine the Fitz being made into a movie.
This is like records meant more than people
It has always fascinated me. Have been on all of the Great Lakes.
I've watched many of rics videos but I can honestly say this one answered all the questions I had about the sinking of the Edmund Fitzgerald
I can look at the course the Fitzgerald took on Lake Superior, and it's wrought with problems. Why are these 2 boats clear out in the middle of the Lakes in the first place??? Everything was fine on the Fitzgerald right till he made the turn at Michapitcoten Island and headed over six fathom shoal and by caribou island. Other than no radar working, everything was fine up to that point. So whatever happened was between Michapitcoten and Caribou Island obviously. I don't care what this man says. I believe that Captain Mc Sorely bottomed out somewhere in there. He was an all weather captain who ran at full throttle. The fact that he slowed down tells me that he knew something was seriously wrong. That man never slowed his ship down in open water. The Fitzgerald went through the Soo Locks more times than any other boat in 1975. Mc Sorely held the record. That tells us how hard he ran that boat and his crew. He would go through the Soo Locks low on fuel so he could get through faster. Then he would refuel afterwards. He was going to retire and was running that boat to the max with reckless abandon. That's why many sailor did not want to sail with him
I think the evidence is strongly against the notion that the Edmund Fitzgerald broke up on the surface. In contrast to the sinking of the Bradley and the Morrell, none of the Fitzgerald crew were recovered. The ship disappeared abruptly from the Andersen’s radar (it is implausible that both pieces of the ship would have plunged to the bottom immediately after breaking in two). Finally, the bow and stern would never be as close as they are if the ship had broken up on the surface. The physics just don’t make sense for any of this.
I agree as a sailor. If I may add, Mixter is dead set on pushing this "we discovered a crewman" thing. The deceased sailor is definitively not from the Fitzgerald as he is wearing a cork life vest. The Fitz was not equipped with cork life vests. He is most certainly a crewman of a French minesweeper that was lost on the lake during the World War 1 era.
Well. This is a good presentation overall. I don't agree with everything he says, but he does discuss many leading theories that I definitely do agree with about the sinking
Mc Sorely was a bonehead. You don't run a boat out in the middle of the Lake in a gail, unless you are crossing the lake for the cargo which the Fitzgerald was not. He should have just ran the southern end of the lake and went around Kewenaw point. That's what a smart Captain would do. His course would have been a hundred miles shorter. And when something went wrong and he had a list, he was 80 miles from shore. That's 4 hours away from beaching the boat to safety saving the crew. Modern captains don't do what Mc Sorely did. Even the 1000 footers hug the shoreline today during a storm. And they all have survived thus far. I think that he was "Hogging" the boat. He bottom out about dead center of the hull. Punched a hole in the bottom. That's why a broken fence rail. He broke the ships back basically. The 2 vents that blew off are because air was rapidly escaping the boat because water was flooding in.
Great Video chat🏆🏆🏆...
For me , Fitzgerald tragedy reverts back to her exact Sister Ship, The Arthur B Homer. Millions of dollars spent on her legethening just to be scrapped a few years later? The blamed the economy yet older smaller vessels never got scrapped. Why didn't anyone buy the ship? Ether Homer did have some hull flaws as rumored by the shipyard workers and the Shipping Industry OR great lakes shipping industry is incredibly wasteful and foolish.
Fitzgerald's last surviving leading engineer said Fitz and Homer weren't designed to be carrying the amount of cargo that they were in the 70's. Put added stress on the keel especiallyin bad weather... former Fitzgerald crew Richard Orgel's and Red Berger's testimony to the coast guard also put Fitzgerald's hull into question too.
The anderson wasn't listing or taking on water plus the Fitz was smaller so yes those waves could have done it
The chorus if Gordon Lightfoot song should have went, "rode hard and put away wet, that's the fate of the Edmund Fitzgerald."
Very interesting, I had to check out the song. It was interesting but not my type of music. Lol, keep up the good work Richard, your the man!
Not your style of music?! 😳
What kind of music DO you listen to them?
Hope it's none of this rap crap? Perhaps you're a Justin Beiber groupie.
Richard Syrett is Walter Cronkite, Paul Harvey, Edward R. Murrow, and David Brinkley rolled into one & multiplied by a thousand..
This guy Ric Mixer reminds me of the guy with the silly hat at the nathans hot dog eating contest.His thoughts are just ludicrous it seems he just likes to stir the pot.A shame,since families were devastated.
You are clueless.
The actual track of the Fitz is accurately known and confirmed by radar when it neared the shoal water area? Cooper had radar which would pretty accurately give a position of the fitz relative to the island. A CG shore station can triangulate a radio transmission with a slow count request to locate a vessel in distress at a given point in time but an entire track is real tough to get right. Shoal impact damage could have been to the front half of the boat which is buried. If Cooper at first said he thought the Fitz was through dangerous shoal water I have to believe him.
Shipwreck enthusiast like guys like Ric. He challenges people's long held opinions. I respect that. Even though I dont agree with all his theories. He seems to irritate the casuals though. People who dont know much about the wreck or ship or people who only know of the tragedy from the song.
She was carrying too much cargo than she was designed for. And I believe former Fitzgerald crew Richard Orgel and Red Burgner saying her hull flexed unusually mutch in heavy seas. Thats why nobody bought her sister ship even though millions were spent on her sister ship's lengthening just a gew years prior. Cooper said shoaling OR hull failure. Yes, He did say both in his audio interview in the 90s. But people cling to the shoal theory. I cant get behind the shoal theory due to the Canada's Coast Guard saying they found no broken rocks or red paint when they dived it just after the tragedy.
So has anyone attempted to get a permit from the Canadian government to attempt to visit/sonar the wreckage? Somone else's video said it's not illegal to visit the wreckage. You just need a permit. Does Rick think that modern equipment would provide enough definitive proof of the cause of the wreckage.
Rick has an incredible knowledge base and passion for the Fitz, which is a fitting tribute to the crew. He needs to stop giving Gordon Lightfoot a hard time for the creative license he took in the song. Every time Rick is interviewed or recorded he drones on about it and it takes away from the rest of the presentation.
He said Cleveland because that's where she was going for dry dock is what I seen in another comment yeah they where going to Detroit but the end was Cleveland dry docks
I knew he'd have to mention that some of the lyrics in Gordon Lightfoot's song about the wreck were incorrect. Every lecture he goes on about it as well as few other things like sending Jacques Cousteau society a copy of one of his videos just to demonstrate that he had aquired diagrams or blueprints of a sub that that belonged to the society that they wouldnt provide. It really comes across as petty and spiteful. It's just a song, it's not intended to be an accurate account of history. There's many instances of him essentially saying he knows better and should be regarded as the premier expert on the subject. For example him saying Jacques Cousteau had nothing to do with it other than getting his picture taken in Detroit .It's petty and off-putting despite his obvious expertise.
Good input Mike. I'll work on the smugness and I appreciate the nod to expertise. Ric
@@CKritNinja no disrespect intended and I commend anyone that can take constructive criticism so positively as yourself. But there's no disputing you know your stuff!
@CKritNinja I think you're one of the most humble approachable people who are in the subject matter expert category on Great Lakes Shipwrecks. These are emotional stories, especially the Fitzgerald. A fine line to walk! I just ordered your book Tattletale Sounds. Thanks for your knowledge on the subject
No doubt about it. He knows his shit.