EDMUND FITZGERALD MEMORIAL-CAPTAIN DARRELL WALTON NEW INFO UNCLE RALPH WALTON PERISHED
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- Опубликовано: 4 ноя 2021
- The story of the Edmund Fitzgerald continues to fascinate me. As a former Merchant Marine, I have great respect for the industry and the sacrifices made over the centuries to keep America moving. In my annual tribute to the Fitz, I sat down with Captain Darrell Walton, whose uncle Ralph Walton went down with the great ship. Listen in for some new perspective on what might have happened. But mostly, this is my salute the 29 brave souls who gave their lives...and to all the Merchant Marines who have sacrificed all. Thanks for your support!
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#EdmundFitzgerald #GreatLakes #ShipWrecks #LakeSuperior #GordonLightfoot #CaptainMcSorley #DarrellWalton #TheWreckOfTheEdmundFitzgerald #edmundfitzgeraldcrew #whyshipssink #livingwithtragedy #shipbuilding
Wow, didn't know she was loaded up to her summer draft line, when in a winter storm!
I have just finished re-watching this amazing tribute, well done guys.
I still just can't imagine what Capt. Bernie Cooper went through that night. First loosing sight and then radar contact with the Fitz, just a horrific and unbelievable feeling that she was probably gone. And then the call he received to go back out into the storm and search for his fellow mariners of which he did. Capt. Cooper is certainly a hero in this tragic story.
Capt. Cooper was amazing. I can't imagine going back out in the same storm that he knew took down the Fitz. Courage beyond words. RIP Capt. Cooper. Thanks Todd...we are really enjoying your contributions and support. HMM
One of the sadest things about this story is that Captain McSorley was retiring after this trip. His wife was in a nursing home and he told her he was coming home and would never leave her again. Would you want to be the person that had to tell her that Ernest wasn't coming home? Sad.
Very sad. When Gordon Lightfoot had his concert at the University of Toledo, Mrs. McSorley attended the show in her wheelchair, and visited with Lightfoot backstage. Thanks for remembering the Mighty Fitz and her crew...HMM
I feel very sad for her but mcsorley should not have went out overloaded a damaged ship.. his arrogance killed 28 good men. He could have waited till storm passed. His reputation preceeded him.
@@jefferyashmore6477 You have some valid points. I would add though that McSorley was unaware of the impending storm and its severity. When he left the dock, there were no storm warnings issued...not even a gale warning. The gale warning didn't come until he was out in the middle of it...thanks. HMM
@@HistoryMysteryMan I had never heard that. Thank you jeff.
Titanic capt. Smith was to retire after the tragic trip as well. Eerie.
I totally agree with Captain Darrell! I had the honor of meeting and speaking with Captain Bernie Cooper back
in the 1980's. He pulled no punches when he told me his true thoughts on the sinking, and I always will believe him over any Coast Guard reports. Anytime you're in the Harrison Township MI area Captain Darrell, drinks are on me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
How cool...a conversation with Captain Cooper! Thanks for watching...HMM
Take Bernie coopers word ship was over loaded to start with
@@evrav4 And Cooper was there...in that same sea. Thanks...HMM
@@HistoryMysteryMan Exactly! And what some people may not realize, is that the Arthur Anderson was getting hammered by the same storm. Most of the crew on the Anderson were fearful they would not make either. That is why Captain Cooper (RIP) will always have my respect for going back to look for survivors.
@@mikeb949 Well said Mike B...couldn't agree more on Captain Cooper. HMM
I reported to USCG TRACEN Cape May, New Jersey for boot camp that night. My dad told me about the sinking when I made my two minute call home.
It's funny how we remember those moments, where we were and what we were doing. Thanks K S...HMM
Invaluable documentary interview.
I see no reason to doubt the good Captain Walton regarding the inside details of covering up the Fitz bottoming out on the shoal and the red paint found there. As he stated, why would those people bullshit him? This was a different era, and unfortunately for the blue collar hard worker, keeping your mouth shut to protect your job was a common practice then.
I didn’t know about the difference of two less bulkheads. It makes sense that would jeopardize the structural integrity of a boat that big. She was pushed beyond her limitations too many times. This was that one, once a century perfect storm, that became one trip too many, and 29 real good men paid their lives for company greed.
The fascination of this tragic event never fades. Well done sir.
Thanks again Jeff. Once the story of the Mighty Fitz grabs hold, it never lets go...every November it just comes back for more. HMM
@@HistoryMysteryMan Like clockwork. The circle just comes around once again.
Appreciate your reciprocation. Give me a shout when you come back through the Land and we'll figure something out. Or I'll let you know when I decide to make another trip to the National Museum at the Maritime Center on the Maumee. That said, I sent you a DM connect msg on LinkedIn.
@@jeffbranchick1516 Got it...done! We'll work something out for sure...HMM
It was Gordon Lightfoot that made me aware of the tragedy. I'm a Brit living in the UK. I have read all the books I can find about this event RIP every one of the crew, you will never be forgotten.
Thanks for watching. And thanks to Gordon Lightfoot for making the story of the Mighty Fitz known around the world. It's exciting to hear from you, all the way from the UK. HMM
There are a number of videos about the Edmund Fitzgerald but those where Captain Darrell talks about her seem to be the best informed and knowledgable👍
Thanks...Capt. D is the best! HMM
For those of you who don't know, the SS Reserve that Darrell Waltons' father was on was a fleetmate of the Edmund Fitzgerald and was also a sister ship of the Arthur M Anderson. There were 7 other sister ships of the Arthur M Anderson, and their names were
Reserve
J.L. Mauthe
Edward B Greene
Cason J Calloway
Philip R Clarke
Armco
William Clay Ford
Thanks for the info...HMM
The AAA class
The Big Fitz was an Ohio boat with plenty of native sons on her. We’ll never forget in the Buckeye State. RIP fellas 👊
Well said...thanks for watching...
Very many parallels to the Titanic disaster and cover up. The regulations flouted, the bulkheads missing from the Fitz and not to the top on the Titanic , and then a bunch of bad luck all combining. Thanks for this heartfelt documentary.
You're welcome; thanks for watching! HMM
This HISTORY NEEDS to be a movie !
I agree...the Fitz would make a great motion picture. Thanks for watching...HMM
Thank you for keeping the memory of the Edmund Fitzgerald alive.
You're welcome; thanks for watching...HMM
Another great History Mystery Man video. As an ex cop, II tend to gravitate towards things like unsolved murders and the like...I have a book out on the Kennedy assassination. But something about the Fitz has really captured my attention. Your videos are by far the best out there.
Thanks again, Brad...so appreciated. And thanks for your service in law enforcement...so much respect. #BackTheBlue HMM
from a person that made a living on the ocean for a time
thank you
You're welcome! HMM
I had the privilege of talking in depth with 2 elderly gentleman who were cousins. One served 6 years on the Fitz. 3 with Capt Pulcher and 3 with Capt McSorley. He tried through the 74 shipping season to get off the Fitz but didn’t have seniority to bump to another ship without taking a cut in pay. He actually quit Columbia before the start of the 75 season. He said “quitting seemed to be the only way to get off that boat with McSorley as master.” He said “Pulcher may have loaded it heavy and set haul records and ran her hard, but he wasn’t careless with her. McSorley was.” He said “frankly McSorley scared the hell out of me and a lot of the crew and I had to get off and away from him.”
He said that McSorley may have been a good rough weather skipper but the Fitz was NOT a good rough weather ship, especially in the last couple seasons.
The other gentleman was a foreman at Fraser shipyard. He was one of the inspectors who recommended that the Fitz go immediately into repair 2 weeks before she sank, but were over ruled by the coastguard and allowed to finish the season.
He said that Tuesday morning, November 11th,1975, they were told by the managers at Fraser not to answer any questions regarding the bad condition of the Fitz, the weld breaks around the keel, or anything about it being unseaworthy. Management said, “we were over road by the coastguard. It’s their liability now, not ours.”
Interesting/Intriguing comment, Billy. Appreciate it!
Wow...this is very interesting commentary; thanks for sharing it here, Billy. I had to go back and read what you wrote a few times to digest it all. Thanks again...HMM
The truth slowly comes out in time when those feel safe to talk about it. After all these years Hoffa's body may have been finally located. It's just a matter of digging him up. Of all the ways to dispose of a body, Hoffa was placed headfirst in a 55-gallon barrel, a 12-foot hole dug with an excavator with Hoffa placed in it first along with other barrels dumped on top of him. I can't wait for them to start digging.
What a shameful loss of life driven by pure ego. A good ship an crew lost from pure assholery.
Another good reason to get to the bottom of the Fitz
Miss ya Fitzer!!!! I am still haunted by your loss.
My adopted maternal aunt and uncle lived two doors down from Bruce Hudson's parents house.
Thanks for watching. Did you know Bruce? HMM
@@HistoryMysteryMan Honestly I may have. I don't remember much before the sinking.
@@BonnieDragonKat Understood...thanks! HMM
@@HistoryMysteryMan did you know Bruce had an infant daughter born that year possibly that fall to his long term girlfriend.
I could listen to this man talk about this forever! So interesting how he tells it!👍
I agree! Thanks for watching...HMM
Loved the little squirrel that bolted across the front porch at about 1.32sec...
Oh I know; he's become somewhat of a sensation! A star is born, and it's about time the squirrels of the world got some love. Thanks for watching! HMM
I was only 7 when the mighty Fitz went down in 1975. I remember it well.. RIP crew of the Fitz. You will never be forgotten.
I was almost 19. I remember it like it was yesterday. I live in Iowa, and it touched a lot of people all across America. They were all very brave men, with many hopes and dreams of tomorrow.
Well said Doug...thanks for writing in.
And it's been touching people around the world ever since. Thanks James, for taking the time to watch.
I was 22 at the time of the sinking of the Big Fitz and I remember it well.
@@harrietharlow9929 Once you know, it's impossible to forget. Thanks Harriet...HMM
Our inland fresh water seas are a force to be reckoned with
Most definitely. Thanks Alice...HMM
The words, "we're holding our own", are the words of a man that knows he is in trouble and his back is to the wall but still hopeful.
Those are haunting words for sure. Thanks Kes! HMM
Kes FitzGerald, I agree. I also believe they are the words of a man who knows he is being beaten, and doesn't want to panic his crew.
@@deltaqueen5704 Interesting...thanks for sharing here. HMM
I first got a chance to listen to the words of the song in 1980. It still gives me a chill, and my life has never been on or around the water.
"We are holding our own".....
No truer words were ever spoken!
Thanks for watching, Dennis...HMM
Thank You so much for this video. When I came home from the Army I wanted to come up there and get a job on one of those mighty ships. It was a dream of mine what a awesome job it would have been. Its my prayer that God will watch over all the crews that sail the Great Lakes and get home safely.
Thanks Augustus. What a life...living the Great Lakes. HMM
I could not agree more! I was a senior in 1975. I remember that evening for some reason. The weather got bad. I live in Canton, OH...
My husband was a USCG stationed in Duluth MN. I will always remember the day the ship was dispatched and when it returned with a ship full of Coast Guard young men absolutely devastated by the disaster.
Wow...that's a difficult memory; thanks for sharing it here...and thanks for watching. HMM
I was 16 when this happened, I remember the storm and seeing the little ticker across the the bottom of the tv saying a freighter was missing on Lake Superior.
It's one of the moments that stays with you for a lifetime. Thanks Scott...HMM
@@HistoryMysteryMan : I have a house in Grand Marais Mi and when I’m up there you get talking to people in the bar and they will ask where the Fitzgerald is, I always tell them look just past the point to the east and there’s where it is. It’s a long way past but it’s about in line, then they start playing the song on the jukebox.
@@scottberry5266 Man I love this story...right on through the song playing on the jukebox. Thanks for sharing it here. How cool...to have a home in Grand Marais. Thanks Scott, for your interest...HMM
I was 12 remember this well. Couldn't believe it.
I am so, so sorry for all of these brave sailors and their families!
My 92 year old father worked on ore boats to save money for college. In the summer of 1947 he was a porter on the USED Burton.1948 on the L.E. Block as a deckhand, 1948 as a coal handler on the AA Augustus. 1950 he signed on the Adam E Cornelius as a coal passer. We asked him what life lessons he learned while on the boats. He said “ if you are reliable , do your job very well and have a positive attitude you will move upward”. Needless to say our family was deeply saddened by the sinking of the E Fitzgerald
Wow!...I love that life lesson; thanks for sharing your story here! And thanks for remembering the Mighty Fitz and her crew. HMM
What a small world. My grandpa, Edward John Timblin (Oregon, Ohio) served on the same Crispin Olgeby as Mr. Walton did for most of the 1960's until his retirement in 1973. They must have known each other very well.
I was home on leave from the Navy, sitting in the kitchen with grandpa on the morning after the sinking of the Fitz. A Detroit radio station broadcast the news about the ship; grandpa turned as white as a ghost. He and grandma knew several of the crew, including Captain McSorley. Grandpa was never the same after that morning and died about a year later.
Thank you for posting this excellent piece.
You're welcome...thanks for watching. And thanks for sharing your personal stories here...so interesting! HMM
My word! I can actually remember that teletype coming across our old TV screen! People all over the Buckeye State were stunned! I was just 11 and growing up Dayton Ohio but my family had a lot of roots up on the Lake and each year we vacationed in an old run-down cottage by the Lake. Dad used to take us to see the big boats and we were always in awe of them. We'd wave at the crewmen and they'd always wave back. In a sense, each of the crewmen on the Fitz were just like our machine shop Dads in that they were doing their best to bring home a check. Ungainly as she was, the Fitzgerald and her crew were the HMS Hood of the working class!
Did you ever remember waving at the Fitz as she went by, or were you too young to remember? Thanks for watching, greg j...HMM
Thanks. That's the best insider documentary in the Fitz I've seen.
Thanks! Greatly appreciated...HMM
I don't think that most appreciate the size of the Great Lakes and the fact that winter storms there can rival anything you'll find at The Horn.
Couldn't agree more. I spent several winters on the Great Lakes (Tug and Barge). Deadliest Catch got nuttin on the Great Lakes. Thanks Tin Man...HMM
Used to be OBSESSED with this ship when I was younger. Don’t know why but I was fascinated by it. Went to visit the museum when I was little
It's easy to get fascinated with the Fitz...thanks Mason...HMM
I was in the Air Force when this vessel went down. 26 thousand tons of ore . I wil never forget those words. That was the words that came from the rock radio station I listen to in Austin Texas. The radio station went off the air for 3 mintues.
Wow...interesting that the station was off-air for 3 minutes. Thanks for watching...HMM
I got tears in my eyes when Captain Walton said his father was the 30th victim of the shipwreck. Thanks for interviewing him. What a fascinating man.
Thanks...I really appreciate that, and I know Darrell does too! HMM
I'm from the up I remember this happening I was a kid but I understood. One of my mother's friends from high school lost her dad when the Fitz sank.
I wonder who that dad was? Thanks for watching! HMM
Setting records for the amount of payload delivered; just one more haul boss man! One more!
Although I am not an American or Canadian I have followed the story of the Fitz for 30 plus years this has been an excellent video RIP the men of the Fitz
Thanks Alan...HMM
I trust his opinion more than anyone. He knew what was going on, he knew them all, he knows the trade, and most important he knows the lay of the land more than most ever will. That boat bottomed out, broke its back after the bow hit the bottom. I really just don’t see anyone ever changing my mind. What a ride those boys went on.. I can only imagine..
Thanks for sharing your thoughts here; I appreciate you.
I don't want to imagine (shudder)
Bernie Cooper said TWO large waves struck them a few minutes before the Arthur M Anderson lost contact with the Fitz . One theory is the Fitz was long enough that when those two waves came thru, the bow was atop the first wave 🌊 and the stern atop the second wave 🌊 . So there was nothing supporting it amidships and it broke in half .
@@Mr.CliffysWorld which is a good theory, but I don’t know if the two sections would end up that close together if that happened
@@Mr.CliffysWorld Interesting...worth considering. I can see the sense in what you're saying. Thanks for watching...HMM
My family moved onto KI Sawyer Air Force Base next to Marquette Michigan the same month She went down. I was only 4 years old, but I’ll never forget.
Heck of a memory to keep from 4 years young. Thanks again, Ace. HMM
The truth has been told. Great interview.
Thanks for watching, Ken...HMM
I was eleven that night on the north shore, and that storm was just wild!
Wow...you remember the storm? What a memory. Thanks for watching John...
My dad and my grandfather we're both shippers on the Great Lakes. Some of the stories they've told me from back in the day made me never wanna work on the water. we live in Louisiana now but that wet mistress still hasn't let go my dad is is a captain of a fuel pusher, my pappy has since sadly passed away when a freighter lost power at the Ama bend and wiped out his tug and I'm a Marine Diesel Engineer.
Bet you have some awesome memories of your dad and grandfather. Thanks for sharing that here...HMM
What an amazing video! I'm from Michigan, I was 14 in Nov. 75. I remember. I was at my older sister's house visiting up in Boyne Falls. I do remember the storm. And I recall going to this little restaurant the next day and everyone talking about the Fitzgerald missing. This is the first I have ever heard about red paint on the rocks! Fascinating stuff!
Thanks Angel! I appreciate you taking the time to watch...HMM
It was Gordon Lightfoot who first introduced me to the Edmond Fitzgerald. I can still feel my heart skip a beat when I listen to it and he sings that one line...
"Does anyone know,
where the love of God goes
when the waves turn the minutes to hours?"
That always gets me. Great video that has gained you a new subscriber.
Thanks; i appreciate you taking the time to watch. Such a powerful song...HMM
Very accurate lyrics , That recording really gives you that gloomy feeling , I remember hearing that song as I was driving thru a snow squall on a somewhat desolate section of highway just prior to Thanksgiving I looked at the gray skies ,and the intermittent precipitation ,, that was snow , drizzle snow , freezing rain .It was by no means a major storm , but enough to proceed with extreme caution . And a typical late November depressing day .. I could feel those Seaman .. I'll never forget it ...Crazy
Lightfoot's homage to the unnamed workers on the Fitz still haunts me; I regularly share the song and story with my classes.
❣️❣️❣️
it still brings a tear to my eyes ...
You and me both, brother...thanks. HMM
I WAS 13 YEARS OLD AND LIVING IN ALASKA WHEN THIS HAPPENED. RIP TO THE MEN LOST THAT DAY
Rest in peace to the last member Gordon Lightfoot and to the. 29 crew who braved the storm you will never be forgotten. By me 😢
Wish they would make a movie on this ship and that night.
Oh I know...wouldn't that be awesome! Thanks for watching, Joel.
I’m from Ottawa hills and went to high school there as well. My 8th grade year my history teacher taught us about this shipwreck and played us the song
What a great subject for your 8th grade history teacher to teach. And of course, Captain McSorley lived in Ottawa Hills. Thanks for watching Thomas...HMM
I’m going to add something that was told to me about a conversation between Capt Bernie Cooper and first mate Morgan Clark.
The following was told to me by Cedric Woodard, who’s father was Capt. Cedric Woodard, who was piloting the Swedish vessel Avafores that night. Woodard was who McSorley told “was the worst seas I’ve ever been in,” and who heard “don’t let nobody on deck.”
Morgan Clark told Capt. Woodard, at the investigation, that he brought to Coopers attention that, “if the Fitz stays on this course, they will steam right over that shoal. Should I warn the Fitzgerald?” Coopers response was “I’m not going to tell another captain how to run his ship.” Clark said the Fitz went right over it.
Another piece to the puzzle. Thank you for the information.
Yes thank you very much. I don't know why one captain would not warn another of such a thing in such weather
That would explain why Cooper was adamant that the Fitz had bottomed out on the shoals.
This has to be the most enlightening interview about the Fitz that I have ever seen (since I watched my first documentary on her). I've heard a bit about it's construction issues, and alleged remarks made by McSorely about it, but interview had me mesmerized. Profit and greed sunk the Edmund Fitzgerald, just as sure as The Witch of November.
Thanks kindly; I appreciate your kind remarks. Sooner or later, greed always seems to rear its ugly head in corporate America...
they will always put "PROFIT OVER SAFETY"!!!!!, I was 14 years old when this happened, and it really hit home when gordon lightfoot released the powerful tune "THE WRECK OF THE EDMOND FITZGERALD" in 1976. the "FITZ" had another 60 year lifespan, but it was pushed until it "BROKE"!!!!
thanks for the "HEART"!!, I will always remember as long as I live, it makes me upset when 29 lives were lost. I do not remember what insurance company that owned the "FITZ", it is real interesting that there is no "DIVING" / investigation of the wreck. gee, what are they hiding?????. I have never known of an honest insurance company, they only like to see the money go one way "IN"!!!, no payouts!!!!!
It is suggested that greed also sand the Titanic. Several wealthy anti-Central Bank passengers were on board the Titanic & the families behind the Central Bank needed these passengers disposed of. Today these families pretty much own the world.
@@gregoryclemen1870 indeed regarding the life span; the Arthur M. Anderson, which was slightly older than the Fitzgerald, is still going strong to this day, 46 years later
So sad they sank and all those men died . A merchant marine is a hard job . Thank you for your service great History. Service has to be hard and they should not be forgotten.There memory should never be forgotten.
You're welcome; thanks for taking the time to watch. HMM
It's possible my grandfather knew this gentleman's father. My grandfather was from Toledo and also was at the Battle of the Bulge and received the Bronze Star. His name was Harold Barrett
Interesting. Very possible that they knew each other...same battle and same town. Thanks for sharing your story, here...HMM
Thank you for a great video. I'm 61 years old and have heard the song many times, of course, and just a few bits and pieces about the Edmund Fitzgerald, and it was enlightening to see this. *RIP Fine Men of the Edmund Fitzgerald*
Thanks for taking the time to watch; I appreciate your support! I am also 61, almost 62. HMM
@@HistoryMysteryMan 👍
The Morell split in half as did the Algoport which was under tow and empty, great video and story.
Thanks! And thanks for watching...HMM
A lot of info I never knew! Astounding!
Thanks for watching...HMM
Thank for sharing this memorial and personal experience of the disaster, RIP to all involved and affected.
You're welcome Christopher; thanks for watching...HMM
MY GOD! These guys had this information and their opinions for 45 years and this is the first time they have been allowed to speak about them! OUT STANDING THAT MAN! THANK YOU ALL FROM THE UK AND GOD BLESS ONE AND ALL!
Thanks for watching! HMM
God & Jesus Christ bless all of the hard working men who perished, on the Edmond Fitzgerald & their suriviving," beloved family members."They will all remain in everyone's memory. Kevin Phoenix
Capt. Walton brought several key elements together in his summation, and ties into what Capt. Cooper believed happened...and frankly, it makes the most sense. The Fitzgerald's "ticket" was punched the moment they bottomed out at 6 Fathom Shoal, and the heavy seas/waves that hit the Anderson simply finished it off....
Interesting...thanks for sharing your thoughts here...HMM
YES... Accurate account of finding the red paint on the shoal afterwards...
A member of those investigations is the one that informed me of the red paint. A very reputable person!
I have always been intrigued with the story of the Big Fitz, being a former Waterman from the Chesapeake Bay this was really well done and gave me chills
Thanks Jeff; greatly appreciated. HMM
I could listen to Captain Walton for hours. Thanks so much for making this.
Oh I know...ain't he awesome! Thanks...HMM
Agreed. I could listen to that man all day. I truly hope to hear more in the future. What a terrific job on this doc.
@@garylefevers Thanks Gary...Part 2 on the way.
Wow, what an amazing story. I could listen to that guy tell all about his father and uncle and rest of his family’s experiences on the ship’s all day and then some! Great video!👍
Thanks...greatly appreciated. HMM
I agree Simpson Rd Larry. That gentleman is a natural born storyteller. He must be Irish.
I live close to the wreckage in Ontario! I’ve been up to the Edmund Fitzgerald lookout a handful of times! What a tragedy
A tragedy for sure. And we'll never know for sure what happened. May they all rest in peace. Thanks for watching, dayna lynn...HMM
My father worked for the same company. I was 8 years old, he had just come home for lay up. First time I ever saw him cry. Very nicely done sir.
Thanks...so appreciated...HMM
Picustchuck I was 7 when it happened. Whenever this subject comes up, the Gordon Lightfoot song automatically starts playing in my head. I'm from Toledo and I'm wondering where the captain's house is.
@@SHEEPLESUCK I was wondering that as well. I'm in Oregon a few miles from the ore docks.
I was in 11th grade. But I'm wondering if a boatman on the Great Lakes is similar lifestyle as a railroader. I tried that but sucked at it. :,-)
That man made more sense than all of the so called expert data i have heard in the documentaries
Interesting...thanks Jason. HMM
Wow pard this was very good stuff. I could not stop watching. Thank thank thank you God bless you!
You're welcome Joel; thanks for watching...HMM
Wow , I have always felt drawn to , and fascinated by these monster vessels, especially the "Mighty Fitz" , and if the truth could be known , so could blame . That was a hard pushed boat , like an old man , over worked , and abused by greed , weak , and weary , yet always working , no time to properly heal , back pain in her hull , hauling her last over weight run . She is gone . Thank you so much , I think this is the best observation , and most probable description of this tragedy. Thank you . R.I.P. Fitz , and Crew .
Thank you so much; I appreciate all your kind words...HMM
I've always loved those big freighters and as a truck driver much respect to my fellow working man on them, for I've always thought of them and what they do as the beginning and the end of my journey out here on the road ...
Thanks for watching, Ken...HMM
Great video, first time I have heard from someone that knows about what it's like on the Great Lakes.
Thanks
You're welcome Gary; thanks for watching...HMM
Every sailor who risks their life on these lakes, or the open ocean, is a special kind of person. Ready and willing. Facing ferocious storms.
Respect.
R.I.P. SS Edmund Fitzgerald and your 29.
Thanks R R; I appreciate your support...HMM
I believe this mans account. He has NO reason to lie and you can tell . Just listen to him
I only know about the Edmund Fitzgerald because of Gordon Lightfoot’s song. So it’s good to hear the personal side of the story.
Thanks for taking the time to watch! HMM
Oh wow...thank you for this!
You are so welcome!
I've never been to the Toledo museum but I have been to the shipwreck museum at Whitefish pt. many, many times over the years. I have cried each and every time.
Thanks for watching Old Griz...HMM
Love hearing the experts discuss it
Great video 👍 sir
Thank you for doing these videos on the admin Fitzgerald! Glad I found your channel!
Flipping auto correct obviously it was meant to say Edmund Fitzgerald* Cheers
Thanks! Greatly appreciated. Can you help me find Hudson's Challenger?
@@HistoryMysteryMan Your video on the car was amazing!
@@CoastalAutoReactionCAR Thanks...I really appreciate that. Stop by anytime! HMM
Thank you for sharing this video with us.
You're welcome; thanks for watching...
I could listen to Darrell all week, excellent stuff, subbed
Darrell's a gem...thanks John. HMM
I agree with Captain Walton’s assessment of the ship bottoming over the shoals, sustaining damage below the waterline, and effectively slowly sinking before taking a nosedive. That theory fits the evidence the best of all theories that have been advanced. I’m extremely skeptical that divers would have been able to find evidence of the ship’s bottoming on the shoals-that would be like finding a needle in a haystack. I think it is also telling that Captain Cooper’s son said his father believed the Fitzgerald bottomed on the shoals. Ship captains tend to be reluctant to publicly criticize one another, which may have tempered Cooper’s public statements regarding the Fitz’s course, but what he said to his family in private conversations is telling. If you think about it, the Fitz’s ability to navigate without a functioning radar on board would have been severely impaired. They were relying on sporadic communications with the Andersen to get radar updates, and although the Andersen could see their position on radar, they would not be aware of course corrections or changes until well after they could see the Fitzgerald’s course change on the radar screen. By the time it was apparent on the Andersen’s radar that the Fitzgerald was heading toward the 6 fathom shoals, it might have been too late to warn them off. Captain Cooper also might have been reluctant to appear to be giving navigational advice to his counterpart, a seasoned Great Lakes skipper, even though McSorley was running blind. Reading between the lines, given McSorley’s reputation as someone who would push his luck to maximize revenue, Cooper may have thought McSorley’s ship handling in that moment was within character.
Turd Ferguson - Finding a large swath of hull red bottom pain and the red lead primer used back then ground into rocks/shoals is definitely NOT a needle in a haystack as they had survey divers comb most of the shoals. Mostly to survey EXACTLY where they were to improve maps and to look for evidence of grounding. The visibility in the water there is almost always very good (I’ve dived the area MANY times) and as a former Navy Diver, I’ve helped investigate a bunch of groundings and conducted a bunch of bottom surveys. You may choose to call what Capt. Walton had to say as hearsay but everything he said fits perfectly if you examine all the available evidence and take into account his personal experience.
PAINT not pain…dammit
@@joachimguderian4048 - See those three vertical dots to the right of your comments as you hover your mouse over it? Those let you edit the original comment. Saves having to post a second one as a correction...
I love listening to the son of the boiler man. So wise and seasoned. I completely agree with his take on the why’s. I knew there was liability scumbaggery involved with the ruling on the hatches. McSorely was too close to Caribou. The red paint on the bottom and the hushing of that blows my mind. Someone should have gone loud on that. So wrong.
Thanks for watching, C. Welch...so appreciated. HMM
I sailed on the Lakes for 15 years, was in one of those storms in Dec 2001, 30 footers, most scared I have ever been.
I can imagine; thanks for sharing your story here...HMM
@@HistoryMysteryMan I can also add that I met someone who sailed on The Fitz and got off weeks before it sank, McSorley had a bad reputation as being reckless and that is being kind. I did winter work and talked to old welders who said you could move the Keel with a big Pry bar, constantly being welded. It was literally broken all the time but not sinking, It was like a broken backbone but if every weld or compartment was intact and not rolling to heavy it would be fine. If they never ran aground this would not have happened.
@@watchfullwarrior8180 Wow...this is super interesting; thanks for sharing it here. This puts a different perspective on the whole thing...thanks! HMM
Great film, well done indeed. A similar fate befell the British Ore Carrier the MV Derbyshire which sank in a huge storm in the Pacific with all hands. I recommend you watch the documentary. RIP Big Fitz.
Thanks John...I didn't know about the MV Derbyshire; I'll check it out!
So sad to see a Ship of that calibre Sink😯
SO SAD TO SEE A SHIP OF THAT CALIBRE SINK😯
What's so disturbing, is that many, many thousands of ships have gone down obviously, nature of the business, but why hasn't the Big Fitz been made into a Hollywood Blockbuster for the good of humanity, the true story of the people on the lakes, and a reality check for everyone else
@@pagejustin5572 Now that's a very good question, especially when you consider the Fitzgerald is known around the world, thanks to Gordon Lightfoot's blockbuster ballad. It would make for an awesome movie. Maybe it's because we don't know what happened so it would be impossible to tell the right story? Thanks! HMM
This was so well done, and to hear that they found red paint on the rocks on Caribou Shoals leads me to strongly believe that Captain Cooper was correct, he always said he believed that they bottomed out on the shoals and were sinking ever since. That relative of a crewmember really told some things that we have never heard before, really enlightening facts. It's sad about his father, sorry that he had such a rough life.....
Thanks Les...greatly appreciated. HMM
But none of the divers ever made a public statement setting the record straight?
@@drforjc No idea...great topic for you to research...thanks!
@@drforjc Probably because like he said it would put the shipping company at risk of being liable so they were "persuaded" to keep quiet about what they saw?
That was my question. How would the shipping company be at risk if the Fitz had bottomed out? That's a navigational error in a bad storm. They would have been far more liable if the cause of the sinking was a faulty ship, as some people have theorized.
Thank you.
I am also drawn to this story.
Shipwrecks and Maritime history.
My grandfather waa a Merchant Marine during WW2 .. like fisherman, all underappreciated.
Thanks Cheryl; I appreciate you! Being a Merchant Marine is rough business, and I appreciate your recognition for all...HMM
As a kid my second home was with my cousins off Summit St. by Point Place and the Lost Peninsula. I remember driving across the original I-280 ridge and seeing all the lake freighters docked in the Maumee Bay.
I used to live in Point Place! Thanks for watching!
I saw the Fitz in July 1973 2 years 4 months before she sank When me and my folks took the Soo Locks tour she was heading South towards Detroit such a gorgeous massive ship.
What a great memory to carry around...thanks for sharing...HMM
I've watched both videos & I would love to see the entire, unedited version of the interview. Thank you...& hold that rope precious.
Thanks for watching...so appreciated. HMM
I was six when the Edmund Fitzgerald sank. I first heard about it from Gordon Lightfoot's song. I still love that song and it still gives me chills when I hear it. I enjoyed this video. Thank you for posting this.
You're welcome, and thanks for watching! And thanks for remembering the Mighty Fitz and her crew. HMM
Great job with this Video!
I used to work with John McCarthy. His Dad was Joe McCarthy on the Fitz. Never knew John’s Dad but John was a great guy.
Thanks. I've heard from shipmates that his dad was a remarkable man. Any idea how I'd get in touch with John McCarthy? Thanks for watching! HMM
I am a UK resident all my life but the Edmund Fitzgerald has a resonance to me. My father was a carpenter for Cunard on the Mauritania, Queen Mary and Elizabeth. The stories of storms were frightening.
The information regarding the grounding being covered up rings so true. The bulkhead issues etc. Thank you for such an informative inciteful video!
God bless all who sail !
You're welcome; thanks for watching! HMM
That I found out that the Fitzgerald had sunk I love to listen to Gordon Lightfoot and the song the wreck of the Edmond Fitzgerald 🇺🇸🙏✝️
That song is such a classic...love it. That song is the main reason the story of the Fitz is known around the world. Thanks Mr. Lightfoot! HMM
Excellent investigative reporting my brother!
Thanks Stan...greatly appreciated...HMM
Just imagine what it was like for that crew from 12:00 noon till about 7:10 pm that day. Having been battered and pounded so badly they had to know that they were in all likelihood not going to make it. I cannot for the life of me know what they were going through.
I can't imagine; thanks for watching David...
Now, THAT was packed full of intensely interesting FACTS. Thank you for your diligence towards educating those of us who don't know much about it. For a strictly voluntary endeavor, your generosity is exemplary. Thank you.
Thanks 'I'm Here'...I appreciate you.
Packed with heresay. One someone says, "I was told this by so-and-so", someone who wasn't on the Fitz when she sank, it's not facts they're speaking, it's non-supportive opinion. If the Fitz did strike the bottom because she was riding too low, that could've easily been determined. If she struck the bottom bow first, her aft section would be sticking out of the water. To this day, if anyone who has seen the wreck and knows what really happened...they're not saying.
@@jeffburnham6611 except people have BEEN saying what this guy says in the interview for a long time, just not openly. There are interviews with former crewmen, one a chief engineer, who state that they didn't feel safe on that boat and that it had major issues. McSorely himself said so. Add to that overloading for years, and a hard, heavy weather captain, and you have a doomed ship.
@@jeffburnham6611 WOW!!!!!!! Defensive & condescending much?!?!?!? It's a theory & you need to calm down dude..............that is unless you're part of Northwestern Mutual or the coast guard group that cleared the Fitz to finish out the season. Seasoned captains & seamen, from that area, familiar with those waters have all been saying the same thing for YEARS!!!!!!! It's a strongly supported theory based on the testimony & experience of ppl who served on the Fitz as well as other iron ore ships in the area. Here some simple math for you to chew on: 36 feet (6 fathoms) of water and the ship was loaded to 27 foot of draft. I mean.......it would only take a 10 foot wave for her to bottom out.
If she struck bottom, bow first, 26,000 tons of force would have continued to push forward on the ship causing it to lurch up & buckle somewhere. This would have warped the ship into somewhat of a rainbow shape. With two less bulkheads than a ship of that size should've had & carrying much more weight than she should've been carrying for that time of year, it's easy to see how a stress point & eventual break could've happened. I believe the warping from the impact would have caused the bow to dive more than usual into each wave, putting even more strain on the initial impact point, until she could take no more. In a storm of that magnitude, it would have likely been impossible to notice the grimness of their situation until it was too late. I believe McSorley knew he'd struck bottom & that's why he immediately radioed that he was taking on water.
For further enlightenment there are at least a dozen books on the Fitz, all with differing viewpoints. I know a guy at work who saw a TV special on the foundering so he thought he knew everything and came to tell me because he had been told I was a “Fitzgerald guy.” I gave him three books to read and they demolished the “facts” as he had been fed. It pays to read up on the Fitz and form your own opinion. Remember the phrase, “consider the source?” That’s especially true with this subject because there are egos to massage, reputations to salvage, asses to cover and scores to settle. In the end, I believe the storm was just the straw that finally broke the camel’s back. The story of the weary camel begins with the laying of the keel.
Very interesting ,could sit back and listen for hours. a very sad story, thanks for sharing.
You're welcome Greg; thanks again, sir!