What Happened to the Edmund Fitzgerald? The Great Lakes' Biggest Shipwreck
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- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2022
- In 1975, the Edmund Fitzgerald sank without a distress call, after a strangely encouraging message from its captain. None of the crew survived to tell anyone what happened - but I found an expert to help me understand what we know, and what might have doomed this Great Lakes ship.
Many special thanks to Mike TenEyck for his endless insight, research, and hospitality as I learned about this story.
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More information on the Edmund Fitzgerald:
National Transportation Safety Board report (PDF): www.michiganseagrant.org/down...
Marine Casualty report (PDF): www.dco.uscg.mil/Portals/9/DC...
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#EdmundFitzgerald #GreatLakes #Michigan
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Gordon Lightfoot, the Canadian singer who wrote "The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald", died last week. He apparently was close to the families of the 29 who went down with the ship. As in his song, the sailor's church in Detroit rings it's bell 29 times for each man lost. Last week they rang it 30 times - adding Lightfoot as an honourary crew member. That's a tribute worth more than any gold statue. RIP to the crew of the Fitz and to Gordon - brothers all.
"Fellas, its been good to know ya!"
@@ananda_miaoyin Thar's one of the most emponial lines in the song. There's a certain fatalistic attitude with those who sail the seas - Superior is an inland sea and violent in the winter. Stan Rogers had a few songs that expressed the same thing - mother sea, inland or salt water, can take you in a heartbeat and all you can do is accept it.
Graet song
Seth staton watkins did a tribute cover adding that to the end. Beautiful rendition
@@murraystewartj 😅
Fun fact: The Arthur M. Anderson is still in operation today (2022), and on the anniversary of the sinking of EF, she sounds out a master salute while pulling away from the docks.
No kidding
I see it from time to time. One of my favorites.
@@matthewschreiber2421 she was recently laid up for a re-fit and is back to sailing. Probably will serve for several more decades, would love to see her.
She did winter layup in Toledo in 2021.
Wow that blew my mind
Hi. I’m a sailor on the lakes myself, and if you don’t mind I’d like to add my two cents here. People in my region who are involved with shipping believe a common theory that the vessel sank due to the three sisters (in a way). Yes, the waves were high already, but these ships are designed to withstand those wave. The Fitz sank in 500+/- feet of water, while she herself was 728ft long. It’s theorized that one of these “three sisters” waves hit her from the stern, and the vessel hit the bottom at her bow, also causing the hatch covers to cave in under the pressure of the water. She then snapped in two in her current resting spot, having never fully resurfaced. Personally, I believe the Fitz did something similar to the Titanic. Her bow snapped off first and came to rest at the bottom, while her stern bobbed about for a short while before capsizing and sinking to the bottom, hence why the stern section is upside down, and her bow is upright.
God bless the 29 sailors and they’re families, and thank you for bringing more attention to the Edmund Fitzgerald
Which company do you work for? Once I get out of high school, I really want to work in the lakes because they’re close to where I live.
@@husky_studios Interlake Steamship Co. we are always hiring!!!!
Sir my brother lived on Superior for 33 years and he swore the Lake and it's surrounding land was haunted by the souls the lake had taken . Do you believe that crazy stuff ?
@@FreshwaterNautical I am very interested. I have started working on 3d modeling and printing the ships that come into port of Cleveland since I am local there.
Sadly, about the Titanic, the crew tried to get out of the way, in order to avoid a collision.
If the Titanic had struck the iceberg head-on, it may have only a few compartments damaged.
But, by turning the ship to Port, the iceberg slashed through several plates on the side.
This might have already been mentioned, but Gordon Lightfoot donated all proceeds of the sales of the song to the families of the crew. That was a very big hit. #1 in Canada and #2 in the US.
I don't think that they publish music charts by state, but it had to be #1 here in Michigan. It still gets quite a bit of airplay here.
I don't think that statement is entirely accurate. I never heard he made direct payments to the survivors. How does he donate the proceeds from the album "Summertime Dream" , when the song is only one of 10 on that album. How does he donate concert proceeds from one song, when he sings a total of 25 songs during one concert? What I believe is more descriptive is that Lightfoot made substantial donations related to Great Lakes shipping. I know he made an annual scholarship to the Great Lakes Coast Guard Academy in Traverse City, Michigan. I know he donated for the building of a hockey arena in Superior, Wisconsin. I suspect he has made donations to the Great Lakes Shipwreck Museum in Paradise, Michigan. He has been there multiple times.
I first heard of the 'Edmund Fitzgerald' in 1977, via Gordon Lightfoot's ballad. I was about 13 years old, and started looking in our local libraries for old newspaper articles that may have a story about the ship. I never found anything but my interest in the tragedy stuck with me because of that song. When I finally got to read the story, some ten years after I heard the song, I was deeply saddened. And the song took on an even deeper meaning for me. It still brings a tear to my eye.
I don't remember how old I was when I first heard this song, but the haunting quality of it runs through my mind with every new video I watch about this sinking. Every video tells me something I hadn't known before.
Maybe some day we will have an underwater forensics team who can answer our questions.
You sound like you're about my age. How great was it to hear music like this on the radio growing up? Hearing this on the radio at night was haunting and really captured my imagination.
Yes, Gordon Lightfoot did a quote song, with a lot of research including speaking with surviving family members of the lost crew
Yesterday as of this post, Gordon passed away and left an incredible legacy of music
@@Knards I hadn't heard. Thank you.
Rest in peace, Gordon Lightfoot! Your legend will live on in Minnesota and beyond!
Truth
What a beautiful tribute this man wrote for the souls on this fated journey. Lightfoot will long be remembered.
And everywhere a ship goes on the waters!
Here in WI too!!
Not just in Minnesota, I grew up in Akron Ohio. I finally bought a Lightfoot CD with that classic tune on it.
The Mighty Fitz sank on my 6th birthday. I remember it like yesterday. A friend of mine said I would’ve been too young to remember this; I replied, “if you were conscious of news events, regardless of age, and lived along the Great Lakes as did my family, you know this story.” RIP to the 29: never forgotten.
I was 8 years old, on a cold, dark bus heading to school. I was listening to them talking about it on the news. It really affected me. I remember the concern and sadness I felt. My eyes are watery as I type this and the song can still make me tear up today. What is it about this tragedy that has such an effect on so many still to this day?!
I homeschooled my children. I taught them about the Edmund Fitzgerald. They are probably the only kids in NC who were taught about it.
I was only 6 but remember hearing of the sinking very clearly.
I was 5, but I clearly remember the picture in the paper and the step by step diagram of the unlikely theory that she broke in two from hogging as a result of her bow and stern being lifted by waves and her mid not being supported. My guess was papers at the time had the generic graphic they used for Bradley and Morrell as well.
Crazy it sank on my 9th birthday, born 66. And Gordon Lightfoot passed on my daughter's birthday
I remember it so well, but I can remember back till I was 2
I was 7 years old when she went down and I lived in Superior, Wis and I cried that day because I didn't know if my father was on the Fitz and that storm was violent that day! I knew a kid that lost his father on the Fitz so Nov 10th i always am reminded of the Fitzgerald going down on that terrible day😢
Great video! I'm fortunate to call Mike, "Dad". I know you are aware, that you could have made a full length documentary from the knowledge that he has on the subject! It has been fun and interesting to me to watch him investigate and evolve his theories through the years. I am still awestruck by the amount of knowledge he has on the subject and have encouraged him to write a book on the Edmund Fitzgerald. But Dad being humble just says, "I do this for fun, beside no one would find this interesting and read it." You did a great job covering the subject and telling the story. I enjoyed the graphics and production of the story that I have heard for so many years!
Aw! It was such a joy to read a comment from you. Thank you for leaving such a kind note! For what it's worth, I would absolutely read that book. He really does have such a wealth of information, and the way he presents it was so easy for me to follow, as someone who's very much a non-expert. 🙂
@@AlexisDahl
My only question remains...
Was/ is the cargo load still on board the ship?
And if not ... WHO removed it?
@@gafairbanks2434 This question is answered. Re-watch the video starting at 15:20.
@idahonukeworker6476 Thank you for giving us an insight into your Dad. If I had the opportunity to meet him I'd be chewing his ear off asking questions about the Edmund Fitzgerald. The history of the ship and the tragedy has been an interest of mine since the late 70s when I was a 14-year-old kid.
Tell your dad we appreciate his knowledge and the time he took to provide an educated opinion on the EF. As for no one wanting to read his book, I got 20.00 whenever he decides to bless us with it!
Waitin patiently.
Nice video. Good to emphasize the fact that - no matter why their ship sank - the men lost their lives and their relatives lost loved ones. So sad.
A terrific and respectful presentation, Alexis. I was a 14 year-old boy who delivered the Detroit Free Press and Detroit News to people's doorsteps when this happened. I will never forget the headlines in the Free Press and the News the day the sinking was discovered. And I will never forget seeing pictures of the crew that was lost at sea. Mike TenEyck's explanation and his last words were terrific. When I look out on the freighters prowling Lake Huron in Northern Michigan, I always remember the story of the Edmund Fitzgerald and the men lost at sea. I've told this story to my children who now understand the power of these great lakes.
When I was young we lived in the Detroit area, where the Fitz was launched. My father took me to the launching. She was launched sideways. A huge wave came our way. Luckily my dad knew what would happen and got us in a train coal car. I have pictures of the event. The day she went down I was attending classes at Michigan Technology university, near lake superior. The wind was so strong that day you lost your breath if you walked into the wind. Yesterday Gordon Lightfoot died. His song of the event still bring a tear to my eyes.
I was attending Michigan State in East Lansing and I remember crossing the campus in the dark, gloom, and spitting, cold rain of the late afternoon of November 12, just before I heard about the sinking of the Edmond Fitzgerald. Almost 24 hours later after the sinking, the remnants of the storm were still notable far to the south of Lake Superior. When I finally made it to my dorm after a day of classes and study, I saw the afternoon paper with the headline announcing the disaster. My dorm mates and I were glued to the evening news that night. Remember, there was no 24/7 cable news or internet for instant, on-going information.
Gordon Lightfoot recorded his classic song "The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald" a mere month after the tragedy. It was released in the Summer of 1976 reaching Number 1 in both the United States and Canada. Everybody in North America was familiar with this song. I have to assume that this publicity put pressure on the shipping industry to "clean up its act," and start conducting itself in a more responsible and safe manner. I just discovered this RUclips channel in the last hour or two. FANTASTIC!
All of the royalties from the song went, and continue to go, to the families of those that perished.
@@Kennymac8251 The song is in my “personal” all time top 10 and I was impressed by how many facts and not poetic license Mr. Lightfoot used when writing the song.
I stand corrected. I originally thought the song was released in January, 1976.
Now the bell at the maritime cathedral rang 30 times, once to honour Gordon Lightfoot. Rip
My personal (non-professional, of course) opinion based on the known facts and the visible damage to her bow and pilot house where she lays at the bottom of the lake, is that as she was floundering with a list a very large wave washed over her from the stern, pushing her bow downward into the water. Due to her being weighed down by the access water in her holds, she was unable to recover and essentially took a nose-dive straight into the bottom of the lake. Being that she's in 500 ft. of water and she was well over 700 ft. in length, her stern was lifted out of the water as this happened, which is why it tore away from the bow section and sank upside-down in almost in the same spot, with nothing but iron ore debris and her torn up mid-section separating it from the bow. I can't think of anything else that would explain a) the apparent impact she shows to her pilot house and bow section and the way her two sections are oriented at the bottom of the lake, and b) the lack of any sort of distress call. It would have been too sudden for any kind of reaction from the crew.
As a lifelong Michigander (69 years) I have always held this same opinion.
The idea that a ship on the lakes could nose dive in 500ft of water and it could leave her stern 200ft in the air blows my mind just due to the scale of it, obviously it probably wouldn't actually go that high due to the damage but hypothetically.
I agree. Given that the ship was known to be taking on water and would be very low and have lost buoyancy, given that the waves were so high that the depth of water could be as little as 440 feet, given that the ship was 729 feet long, and given that the frequency of waves on the lake are shorter than in the open ocean, it seems highly likely that an unfortunate series of wave events shoved her nose into the bottom. When she snapped in two, the torque of the propeller flipped the aft section over as the ore dumped out and the aft section sank to the bottom. I'm no expert... this is just an opinion from looking at this for a long time now.
Just to add my two cents worth, I agree with your synopsis, Nick. I think that the deck hatches had also been compromised, adding to the inability to recover from a large following sea. Also, the fact that her prop would still be turning as she went under, may have contributed to why the stern was upside down by the time it came to rest.
Yeah something along these lines is my hypothesis as well. It would also explain why a mayday was never sent, since the pilot house or whatever you call it was at the bow and was the first to go under. I had some jet ski incidents where I hit waves just right, the bow dives right into the water and it slows you quickly and that mass behind just kept pushing and contributed to the buckling of the hull and it snapped. All was caused by waves spaced out just right. The wind was from the aft, meaning they were sorta surfing the waves, also giving opportunity for the wet cargo to shift forward as it surfed down the 3 sisters and added to the issues.
A thought struck me about "We're holding our own".
Take a plastic container of some kind, small is fine, and put it in a larger container of water. Try to sink it. You can push quite a lot, like the load of ore did, and it stays afloat thanks to the displacement. But if you start giving it a small list, letting small amount of water slowly leak over the edge, you will after a while go in nearly an instant from "still afloat but some water in it" to "at the bottom".
The reason the Edmund Fitzgerald sank so quickly might be it held it's own, just barely, for a long time, and a final wave made it cross the threshold for when the displacement was less than its weight making it drop in no time. A wave would cross the deck, only this last time the water just didn't recede.
That's a pretty good explanation but what I'm still having trouble with and witch wasn't answered on this video, a good portion of the ship is up right ,of coarse partial load in the bulk heads ,bow, now the stern section is upside down, the super structure on top of the hall is not ver high. So in my thoughts the weight of her engine and machinery, plus the remaining attached bulk compartments it should of sank up right. Any info anyone ?
@@albertomoniz9051 I guess it depends on which cargo holds leaked, or the location of another leak.
@@albertomoniz9051 If she went down bow first, hit the bottom and then broke apart, the cargo might have shifted enough to turn the stern section upside down, especially if the ballast tanks were empty and full of air.
@@albertomoniz9051 The biggest problem is that the cargo wasn't *in* seperate compartments. The hold was just a big, open space full of those tiny taconite pellets. The only division between the holds was made of steel mesh. Not very watertight.
Thus if the ship listed far enough in one direction, the entire contents of the hold could shift in that direction too. Including toward the bow end, and from there, the bottom of the lake.
It cracked on the surface, riding on two waves.
Nobody noticed this cracked as serious.
Then the Hull disintegrated around the cracked, pushing the bow under water due to to the forward motion. Next the stern twists around its own axis, going under.
The middle section is gone to smithereen
found your video by accident, very well put together.
if you are interested;
In August 1942, the U.S. Navy acquired the 1913 USS Seeandbee (using the initials of its parent company, the Cleveland and Buffalo Transit Company), the world’s largest side-wheel passenger steamer, and began converting it into a training carrier. Her name was changed to USS Wolverine (IX-64), and she was designated an “unclassified miscellaneous auxiliary.” Conversion resulted in the ship being fitted with a 550-foot-long, 98-foot-wide flight deck capable of supporting takeoffand landing operations.
Another side-wheel excursion steamer, also built in 1913, and named the Greater Buffalo, was acquired by the Navy on May 8, 1943, rechristened USS Sable (IX-81), and converted to a training carrier to serve alongside the Wolverine. The Sable was slightly smaller than Wolverine, with a deck 518 feet long and only 58 feet wide. Both ships were the backbone of the Navy’s Carrier Qualification Training Unit (CQTU) at Glenview Naval Air Station near Chicago.
yes.
converted side wheeler passenger ships converted into baby aircraft carriers that were in lake michigan to train our aviators during ww 2. future President George H.W. Bush was certified for carrier landings on these ships.
another bit of great likes history that most don't know about.
The ship's max load rating was repeatedly raised over the years. So less freeboard and more stress than it was designed for. Add in a loose keel and a monster storm and I think that's what did her in. Also there is a long history of hatch covers not being properly secured on the ships operating on the lakes, often when rough weather is expected.
I have been following this story since the day it happened. When you said you had an expert, I immediately got ready to rebut some guy who claims to know it all about this tragedy because they are all over the place. I am pleased to say that you got the right guy. Nice video.
I lived up by the lake when I was a kid. I was into ships a lot. I have armchair studied the Fitz and feel you need to look at the wreck itself. It looks like the bow plowed into the seabed. The visors above the bridge windows are bent down. I feel that she did what local mariners call a nosedive. A large wave comes up, it raises the stern of the ship up, the force of the wave plus the power of her own screws, push the bow into the seabed. This breaks her back, then her still turning screws flip the stern over. This would have taken just a few seconds to happen, hence her sudden disappearance and no SOS. I feel no one thing sunk her, the water that came into her hold was another factor, making her less able to "ride" the wave. Just before the Fitz disappeared, the Anderson was hit by a large rouge wave from behind. She survived due to being smaller and lighter than the Fitz. I was told that she rests on the lake floor at a depth that is less than her length. So this is what I believe, but what do I know?
Im no expert but its a good theory. We may know for sure someday how it happened but sadly for now we have theories and maybes.
May be a stupid question, but wouldn't the bow be deeper under the bottom or a divot in the bottom if this happened? That said I agree that this is the most likely senerio.
I agree with that assessment.
That is a very plausible theory for sure....But I don't think that the bow would have plunged 500 feet to the bottom without buoyancy recovery if in shallower water possibly.....Your theory again is still possible but I would think it would recover before striking the bottom....I believe she broke due to stress fracture just so fast that she just sunk like a stone ....But I'm no expert either
I think thats exactly what happened also, she was taking in water from somewhere couldn't pump enough out, became to heavy and never recovered from those last 3 rough waves.
I was in junior high school in Plymouth Michigan in 1975 and my social studies teacher had us doing weekly current event reports from the news papers. I did one of mine on the wreck of the Edmond Fitzgerald. After all of these years it still plagues me to not know what actually happened to that ship. RIP sailors!
My friend’s father, Captain James Wilson (deceased 2022) of the USCG office, was on the investigation team (4 USCG officers) to determine the cause of the Edmund Fitzgerald sinking. He was in charge. Your guest came up with the same conclusion as her dad and his investigation team. What was not mentioned was that the taconite ores are very absorbent. As the water leaked into the hatch covers, the ore soaked it up like a sponge, unknowingly sinking them deeper into the water. A final wave crashed over the deck and down they sank, without reporting that they were sinking.
I absolutely agree.
Right on. Studies show it can increase cargo weight by 10%, or another 2,600 tons! It is no coincidence we have 50 years w/o another loss of a vessel since the freeboard requirements were immediately increase after this accident. No doubt water over the deck caused top-side damage, water saturated the cargo thru this damage and improperly sealed hatches and sank it.
That is very interesting. Thank you for sharing that.
@@Grumpyoldman037 The Fitz hit the bottom at too great a speed for it to have simply sank down into the water and finally been swamped. The damage to the bow section, not to mention the missing midsection which was completely destroyed, imply a bow striking bottom, scenario. That is also what the captain of the following ship was concerned might have happened, and I tend to trust his take considering that he went through nearly identical conditions in the same storm.
This is a tragedy that sticks with me. I was new to the CDN navy when the Fitzgerald went down. It surprised me that the great lakes could act like the oceans. May they all rest in peace. Thank you, Alexis, for your video.
I served in the air force with a young woman who's father was lost in the wreck of the Edmond Fitzgerald. She was quiet and professional, we served on Guam 1982-83 she never told us her father was part of the ships crew until 30 years later! You never know what burden's those around you carry.
Thank you for your sharing your interest in this unbelievable maritime loss.
I remember covering this story in my documentary writing class in college and also for my "Canadian Popular Folk music" class with the Gordon Lightfoot ballad about the wreck
Thanks for covering this topic, I live in the UK so don't have any connection to the great lakes, but I've been listening regularly to the song "The wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald" by Gordon Lightfoot for 5 years or so, and it always brings a tear to my eye. It's nice to see a video covering more of the background and details.
Great song, I'm happy it's carried the legend of the EF and spread her story.
That is such a powerful song. I do believe that the changes mentioned near the end of the video may have more to do with the power of the song than an industry response to the actual tragedy. Men have died (in large numbers) on the Lakes before, but that song was unique.
If you're a sailor, this song hits straight through your bones straight to your heart.
I was in high school in Illinois when the Edmund Fitzgerald went down. Growing up less than two hours from Lake Michigan has left its mark. Then Gordon Lightfoot immortalized the wreck and it's always been fascinating to me.
For those who lean toward the shoaling theory on the loss of the Edmund Fitzgerald, I present the timeline in the lead-up and the time the Fitzgerald was in the vicinity of Six Fathom Shoal:
From "The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald" by Frederick Stonehouse. pp 26-27:
"At 2:45 pm, the Anderson changed course to 130T to clear the Six Fathom Shoal area north of Caribou Island. The Fitzgerald was observed to be about 16 miles ahead. The northwest winds had swelled to a blistering 42 knots. Only an hour earlier they had been at five knots. A heavy snow began to fall and the pilothouse watch on Anderson lost sight of the Fitzgerald. The Edmund Fitzgerald was never seen again.
The northwest seas began to build with alarming speed. The captain of Anderson was deeply concerned about the Six Fathom Shoal area north of Caribou Island. He thought his ship would be cutting it close and made a course change to avoid the area. Although the Fitzgerald had disappared from view, the Anderson had her on the radar screen as being 16 miles ahead and a "shade" to the right. Although no plot of the Fitzgerald's position was kept, watch officers on the Anderson observed her moving again to the right.
*To those aboard the Anderson "watching" the Fitzgerald through the eyes of radar, she appeared to pass north and east of Caribou Island, and, as Captain Cooper later testified, closer to the Six Fathom Shoal than he wanted the Anderson to be.*
Meanwhile, the seas had been building and the winds stepping up their force. At 3:20 pm, the Anderson recorded the winds to be howling at a steady 43 knots and the waves running up to 12 and 16 feet.Her deck was awash with heavy amounts of water.
Ten minutes later, the Anderson received a call from the Fitzgerald, still invisible, somewhere in the storm. Captain McSorley reported that his ship had "a fence rail down, two vents lost or damaged, and a list." Just how serious this damage was would become a future source for debate. It is important to note, though, that the Fitzgerald said she was slowing down so that the Anderson could catch up and keep track of her."
Stonehouse is one of the most respected historians of Great Lakes shipwrecks. He drew his timeline from the 3 reports (Coast Guard, Lake Carriers, NTSB) and first-person sources, like Captain Cooper.
Notice the timeline. Fitzgerald was working through the storm with no reports of issues - until shortly after the point where the Anderson and crew were watching her be "right" - more towards Caribou Island, and Six Fathom Shoal. The time Cooper would testify Fitzgerald was closer than he wanted to be.
You go from moving well though the weather to topside damage, and a list.
All it would've taken was a couple bounces on the shoal, pushing in hull plates, and the storm would do the rest.
(I keep this in a text document - no, I don't re-type this)
On the "no damage on the exposed stern" ... that's only 1/3 of the keel visible. The grounding damage could be on the forward section (buried in the mud) or could've been on the destroyed midships area. The entire bottom may not have dragged on the shoal, but "bounced" across it, damaging some areas of hull while leaving other undisturbed as the ship rose and fell in the waves.
Also... if you look at the coast Guard sketches, there is an area near the tear on the stern where it looks like hull plates are pushed in/not torn. Yes, it could be damage from hitting hull plates as the midships disintegrated, but it is interesting that this damage is on the side of Fitzgerald that would've been closest to the shoals.
Also of note: a new survey of Six Fathom Shoal after the Fitzgerald was lost showed the shoal area extended further east than was on charts in use when the ship was lost - an area of shoals Captain Cooper thought Fitzgerald was already too close to as events happened.
Interesting that they supposedly talked Captain Cooper and his crew out of their initial position on shoaling... it's almost like they didn't want to be blamed for not having a single vessel in the area (not that it ultimately would've mattered, but still) or the fact that the radio direction finder and light at Whitefish Point didn't have power backup. There is no record of the precise course Fitzgerald took - the Anderson wasn't plotting for Fitzgerald, only providing information. So I'm not sure what data points the investigators used to talk Captain Cooper out of his first gut feeling on the cause of sinking.
We'll never really know for sure. All we have are our theories.
I heard somewhere she also got an exception to run the Summer Load Line, meaning she was running even lower in the water.
Between a "Loose" keel & a bounce off the shoal she was broken. Taking on water, stern lifted high from the three sisters plowed her bow deep into waves. Water on deck, shifting cargo & the turning prop pushed her deep & she didnt recover. Once deep enough, she broke. My guess is they thought the bow would pop back up & by the time they realized it would not, it was too late. - thats my theory and im sticking with it.
@@chip9177 feasible, for sure.
If you shoal out in 18-25 foot waves, you actually really don't even need the loose keel or Three Sisters - your ship is going to the bottom. Each twist of the hull in the waves probably opened her just that much more.
The damage to the pilothouse fits the "bow plunging and not recovering" theory. If one looks at the pilothouse, the forward windows are blown in, the back windows blown out. Instead of the expected rise back up, the pilothouse crew would experience those forward windows failing, and them getting flushed into the chart room, or down the access stairway by the force of tons of water forced through as she plunged toward the bottom. Some may even have bee flushed out the open port side pilothouse door.
Still, I wonder if that would be worse than what they may have went through in the stern... like being in the engine room when the stern flipped over, etc.
@@entangledmindcells9359 it wasn't an exception just for the Fitzgerald - the regulations changed - 3 times, actually, in 1969, '71, and '73.
After the loss of the Fitzgerald, it was recommended that the rules be changed back to where they had previously been - and they were.
The stone house book is really good, it explores the possibilities. I read it sitting next to superior and I have been to the maritime Museum where some of this was filmed. Its an awesome adventure to go there. It is treated like a gravesite of the men and I believe the bell from the ship was there or is there. There is also something in lower Michigan. A Museum I believe. Its worth the trip in my opionion, even from lower michigan.
Anderson’s Captain Cooper has the best theory to why the Fitzgerald sunk. She dragged bottom by Caribou Island and started taking on water. Eventually she nosedived and never recovered.
I worked for Columbia Transportation and I am a Merchant Marine Academy graduate. We studied the events around the sinking of the Fitz and at least back in the late 70's there was no definitive answer as to what happened.
I've listened to a lot of theories.
FWIW, hatch clamps are closed at a rate of about 2 or 3 every couple of seconds. Seconds, not minutes. All of the deckhands are typically working closing the hatch clamps at the same time.
RIP Gordon Lightfoot. The song is still haunting.
Re: the grounding theory.
I think the grounding on the Six Fathoms Shoal deserves a revisit. In the illustration, it shows the Fitz getting holed along her side, a la RMS Titanic and the iceberg. Whereas Titanic was in calm seas, the Fitz was in about 10 to 15 seas at the time. I would think that any holing would have been the bottom, and a couple of individual holes, as opposed to a prolonged gash.
An underwater survey was made of the shoals not long after the fitzgerald went down. No marks or gouges were found to indicate anything struck them. Not definitive, certainly, but it does work agai stthe grounding theory.
I was born near Lake Michigan in Grand Haven and very much remember hearing about the Edmund Fitzgerald as a kid. Of course, Gordon Lightfoot’s then recently released song by the same name was especially haunting as a Michigander Adding to the mystery of the great lakes that I had nearly drowned in as a young kid. This was a very well produced documentary. If you’ve never seen the great lakes in full storm mode, trust me, you don’t want to. Oh well actually, you kinda do… from the the safety of shore!
I’m from Michigan, and this story is really important to Great Lakes labor. This was in the 1970’s, a time when boats were fairly safe especially in lakes.
The Anderson being so similar in construction, and the Fitzgerald only displacing 3 feet of water, showed how vulnerable the ships were and how strong the lakes were. The fact it was sent back out despite very similar conditions causing a ship to sink in minutes was very contentious, despite being the only ship close enough to actually search for survivors. It’s when humans got an ego check from nature, and we just have to accept we aren’t as environment-commanding as we always think.
Thanks for this well researched, simply presented document. I grew up in Muskegon, MI and was a freshman in H.S. at the time. I remember the news and finding it hard to believe. But, as we learned, it was sadly, true. You were wise to reach out to Mike, I've always believed hatch covers had something to do with the Fitz taking on an extraordinary weight of water. I believe she was barely afloat, but not something readily apparent by the crew in the midst of such a fierce storm with high seas. Great Lakes bulk carriers have a low freeboard. Bernie Cooper, captain of the Anderson radioed the Fitz that he had just taken a couple very large following waves that pushed their nose down. He later testified that the Anderson came back up and shook off all the water, like a big dog. It was only minutes later that Anderson lost the Fitz on her radar. This leads me to believe that those very large waves overtook the Fitz, and in just a few seconds, pushed her nose down. But the Fitz, already slowly sinking, never came back up.
Mike is really good. Knowledgable yet humble.
Sub'd to the channel, West Michigandeer here and 20-year Navy vet, this wreck still haunts me. I hope one day some one does a movie on the sailors that died.
I have to admit that despite liking Gordon Lightfoot's haunting song of the event, I never bothered to find out more about it. But when it's practically thrown in my lap like this, I couldn't just ignore it any more.
Hello Alexis , thank you for helping to keep the Fitzgerald memory alive. There is just something about this I cant let it go. I'm a Michigan native I'm 49 years old and knew about the fitz all my life. I dont consider myself an 'authority ' on the Fitzgerald but I have done a lot of research on her. RUclips has been a great source of info because video footage of interviews of crewmen who served on the fitz are here. One of those crewmen was the regular ships cook. I forgot his name at the moment but he was saying about how bad the ships maintenance was and that there were rips in the hull metal and they used welding rod as filler then put shallow welds over it. Recently I learned that the ship was over loaded by 3 feet. I didn't know in the winter they were supposed to load less than summer. Bernie cooper of the Andersen testimony is what I believe. He stated she ran aground at six fathom shoal because around that time mcsorley radioed the damage to cooper about both fence rails down. Cooper stated for that to happen the ship had to flex beyond the length of the fence rails cable and the cables snapped. He lost both radars a vent cover and had a list.
About the cargo covers not being latched down I dont accept that. What your guest said that the fitz was seen leaving dock with the cargo holds not covered, that may be true. The crew would just cover the holds as the ship was underway. I also dont accept the coast gaurd judgement about not all the hatch clamps bring secure.
The Fitzgerald was the flagship. She was the ship most mainers wanted to work on, just my opinion on this but if she was the best ship wouldn't she have the best crew that did everything right?
There is a RUclips channel called 'history mystery man' he has a few posts about the Fitzgerald. In a couple of them he interviews a man who's fathers brother was on the Fitzgerald. This is the guy who I learned a few things I didn't know like the fact the Fitzgerald was over loaded. Both he and the ships regular cook confirmed about the poor maintenance. Over the years the Fitzgerald has become a legend and when something becomes legendary it's easy to forget reality. Growing up I heard about the fitz breaking load and speed records/ reality= they over loaded her and ran her full speed. Through the history mystery mans interviews and the ships cook I've learned the fitz was just beaten and worked to death. Once I heard her last run she was overloaded, well in that storm battling 30+ foot waves with all the damage she had I think the rogue waves that the Andersen endured they caught up to the fitz from behind rolled up the deck pushed the pilot house under and that was it.
There was a documentary made back in the 90's on the discover channel. The show was discovery sundays. It's on RUclips, but they intervied Bernie cooper and I really believe what he said is what happened.
Thank you for posting this!
Edit: about that unknown conversation you said mcsorley had with his 1st mate, I have'nt heard about that. The coast gaurd has recordings of the fitz and cooper talking and the time where the coast gaurd asked cooper if he could go look for the Fitzgerald.
Sadly if mcsorley had any thoughts about abandoning ship in that weather with the types of lifeboats they had would have been suicide. Even if the crew launched a lifeboat and made it in the water, they would have died from exposure.
I had lifeboat training from the great lakes maritime academy. Even in controlled conditions it wasn't easy. I could'nt imagine the weather they were facing how they would of launched. One part of this legend I dont normally want to think about is how they died. Either way, the crew in the bow, or the stern its horrific.
I agree with you on how the fit sink I think a wave came up from behind her lifted her stern way up in the air and drove the bow down into the lake bottom and then when she hit the bottom that's when the wave continued and snapped the ship in half and that's how the stern is upside down it makes total sense there can't be any other way I mean it's obvious that's what happened to the ship why that wave didn't take out the Anderson I don't know Anderson got lucky.
@@nightrider6769
The fitz was sinking. I believe what captain cooper said about her grounding on six fathom shoal. She was taking on water because she had a list. Plus she was overloaded with more. That fact I recently found out through history mystery mans channel. So with all of that going on it makes sense. The Anderson made it because she wasn't hurt or overloaded. The sad thing is I think mcsorley knew. They couldn't abandon ship due to how bad the weather is even if they could they would have died from exposure. So maybe that is why he never said anything more about it. Even if he did call for help, nobody could have gotten to them in time. Its like that night they had zero chance, they were doomed. I been thinking alot about the crew lately.
I actually got to meet Capt cooper in 1990. I was at a maritime convention most people were asking him about that night. My question to him was ' did the Fitzgerald just disappear from radar' he said his 1st mate was tracking her, he took a break and was in his quarters. Radar does track certain weather conditions I think its called feedback. Which it was snow. He said the 1st mate watched the Fitzgerald enter a large feedback that was after the 1st mates last conversation with the Fitzgerald and around 7:10pm the feedback cleared and where the Fitzgerald was supposed to be it was gone. There is also an interview with Capt cooper that as was recorded in 1988 it was aired on discover sunday back in the early 90's. Its here if you look but he said almost verbatim the same thing to my group from that interview..
I was in a bad storm before. It is on a training ship called The Pride of Michigan. It was off the coast of Alpena Mi. We had 12 to 15 foot waves gale force winds. the ship had gauges to measure how much the ship rolled and pitched. I remember we were rolling 30 degrees. I was on the bridge holding a bar on the ceiling for support. My feet were leaving the deck! It was one of the most horrific moments of my life. We couldn't see land. The water were like mountains. The lyrics of lightfoot Fitzgerald song " does anyone know where the love of god goes when the waves turns the minutes to hours?" That verse is so true. I truly cant even imagine how horrible the Fitzgerald crew felt in that storm. How helpless, or hopeless they felt. I hope you never get stuck in a storm at sea my friend. Thanks for your reply.
The Fitz reported only one fence rail down, not two.
@@TimothyRaz727
Oops my bad. Sorry.
@@nightrider6769 The Anderson had made it to the bay… she wouldn’t have been exposed to the same seas at the time.
Found your channel tonight. Saw you’ve spent your first year in the UP. Wanted to say hello neighbor 👋🏻! I’m 81 miles from UP in the northern woods of Wisconsin. Moved to Wisconsin in 90. Long time lover of history since they found the Titanic when I was six. The first fall spent in WI my parents took me to Split Rock Lighthouse along the MN north shore. It’s in honor of the Fitz they will light up for the evening. We also heard from a former member of the crew, it’s still a memory that is cherished. When I was a freshmen in high school was took a class in black and white photography. Wasn’t gifted with many gifts when it comes to art, but I’m proud of my eye with a camera. There happened to be a ship coming in to the Lift Bridge in Duluth on a Saturday afternoon. I got a few shots that thought would be good. On Monday went into class and hit the dark room, to the day can’t believe the picture I got. It was Arthur M Anderson, the ship to hear the final words “we’re holding our own.”
New subscriber and like. If you get a chance highly recommend the ice caves to visit. They don’t happen every winter when they do you’ll love the experience.
I remember around 4am Nov 11th my dad waking me up to tell a ore boat sank in lake Superior, we later heard it was the Edmund Fitzgerald.
I was 9 years old, living on Grosse Ile when the Fitzgerald went down. I still remember what a huge story it was at the time. It's good to hear that the event, as tragic as it was, brought about some positive change in Great Lakes shipping.
The Arthur B. Homer laid up for the winter in Oct. 1980 and did not sail the following year because of the recession that had started. Many ships at this time were laid up or sent to scrap but the Homer remained laid up for another 6 years. If there were serious problems with the hull then Bethlehem Steel (owners) would have taken the opportunity and sold her for scrap. During the mid to late 70's, many shipping companies had lengthened and converted some of their ships to self unloaders. Meaning they could unload themselves in about 6 hours verses 2-3 times that with dock side equipment. So during the recession, most of these self unloaders stayed in service because they could hull more loads from the time saved in unloading. Bethlehem decided to only lengthen the hull in 1975 and not make her a self unloader. She likely lingered in Erie for 6 years because Bethlehem wanted to get some more use out of her since the new hull section was only 5 years old at the time of lay up. By the end of the recession, Bethlehem's only two non self unloaders, Homer and Johnstown, were in laid up and the remaining four ships in the fleet remained in service because they were self unloaders. Three of those were 1,000 feet long and carried many times more in load making the two that were laid up even more obsolete.
Divers on the EF did indeed find hatch covers missing, broken off. I've always leaned toward rouge waves, they can crush a ships bow, or over run the sides by several feet. The great lakes have a history of rouge waves.
I was a young man when this happened, and my friend, and I drove up to White Fish Point to pay respects.
The Anderson was in the same storm and lost no hatch covers, and Captain Cooper didn't say anything about his cargo holds taking on water. And I also believe that the Fitzgerald could have run aground and not have huge damage to the hull. Both of us are only offering an opinion here, that's for sure. Captain Cooper did an interview with the Minneapolis newspaper and said he thought the Fitzgerald passed an island "closer than he wanted to be." I believe the hatch covers could leak in a storm as bad as the one that sunk her, but I also believe Captain Cooper is correct on the Fitz bottoming or having a stress fracture.
Don’t know how you could do a whole story about the Edmund Fitzgerald without mentioning Gordon Lightfoot’s song about the wreck. When he sings the line, “Does anyone know where the Love of God goes when the waves turn the minutes to hours,” it really resonates with me. I spent 5 years sailing the ocean with the US Navy and I stood many nights looking over the rails at an endless dark sea contemplating how awful it would be out there all alone!
I can't even fathom being in the Lake in the night. I break out in sweat and have anxiety attacks just at that thought.
That line haunts.
I'm a Navy veteran too and done many North Atlantic cruises. That ocean is rough you come up one swell and dive down through the next. I was a Boiler Technician and we had to run the water slightly lower than normal to prevent from pushing water out of the steam pipe and destroying the super heater and turbines.
She might not be old enough to remember the song.
Or perhaps the fact that every other video mentions the song ad nauseam, this remains refreshingly on topic
Wow, Alexis Dahl, this was a great presentation you gave on the Edmund Fitzgerald! Thank you so much. This vessel sank about 2 years after I left the Navy, and it had everyone speculating about what happened. I really liked the interview you gave to that wise ex-ship's captain. I want to watch this a couple of more times. While in the Navy I went through 2 hurricane's off the East Coast, and those howling winds can really cause a man to focus on eternity.
i remember this day, it was big news and very tragic for those who live on the Great Lakes to hear. Gordon Lightfoot did a song that expressed the drama, sadness and emotions for those who died that day. "We are holding our own", is a line that I will never forget. That is a terrifying way to die. The Great Lakes are huge bodies of water and are dangerous during November storms. I agree with Mike, those hatch covers with a limited crew to secure them before the storm hit is huge. Even when out on Superior in November during a mild storm it would be a difficult task. If you listen to Gordon Lightfoot song, the sounds made by instruments are like the winds blowing through the cables, it makes a terrifying sound.
Great job Alexis! Very well done. You can still see the Authur M. Anderson on Duluth's Harbor Cam occasionally still making runs. ⚓
It was great to see Mike again after all the years since Class 70-03. Great video.
Mare Island? I was in 7903 in Orlando and at S1W
As a LP michigander watching your content, it's amazing to see how much history from this state I do not know about and how direct and interesting your content is! I knew about the sinking of this ship but the breakdown process of what happened and how you said it is just the icing on the cake, love your content ❤️
Because Lake Superior lies west to east and the prevailing wind is also west to east. The lake is quite long so storms have nothing to slow them. This results is that storms often build up to extreme power. The lake is known as a ship grave yard.
The sudden decommissioning of the Arthur B Homer so soon after the loss of her sister ship, for me, is a red flag. You don't just put a ship of this magnitude and future earning potential in mothballs without a very, very good reason.
Having casually researched the EFg myself on several occasions I'll say very well done. You even got two things I've not seen in any of my pokings around and thats the bit about the hatch covers possibly not being on/tight when they left; and the bit about the missing weather report and it's possible significance. Great research, and great presentation.
Years ago I read a book by another captain “Dudley Paquette” that was on the lake that night. He stated that the ship had a well documented loose keel and a captain that pushed the ship too hard until it finally snapped.
Correct. And the hull was built differently, also less bulkheads for strength. McSorley said she did a wiggly thing in rough waters that made him nervous although he was a bad weather skipper.
The anatomy of disasters tells us that it's usually a combination of factors that lead to the disaster. In the EF's case, it was the two rogue waves that rolled up her stern that sent her into history.
Minus the waves, they make it to Whitefish Bay and founder in the shallow waters of the bay. Everyone goes home.
@@danalarose846 you should read the bridge audio recorder transcript from the El Faro.
@@spaceflight1019 yeah, pretty much every disaster could be avoided by just one change of circumstances. The titanic could have been going a little slower or had there been just a breeze making the water bounce off of the iceberg or if they had use of the binoculars….etc the Fitzgerald is the same. Too many things adding up finally caught up to them.
@@bluntone2273 When I was working for NRG they paid for us to attend a two day course about recognizing the steps that commonly lead to disasters. The gist was that when we saw a problem we were supposed to bring it to management.
It's documented that the bridge officers of the El Faro made numerous attempts to get Captain Davidson to change course to avoid Hurricane Joachim, but he firmly believed that the storm wouldn't get into their planned course because that had been his experience.
The EF wasn't much different. McSorley held to his experience and followed them.
Thank you, Alexis! That is one of the most respectful and insightful treatments of the subject I have seen to date. Like Brad Griffin, I heard about the Edmond Fitzgerald in Gordon Lightfoot's song. I was twelve. I didn't fully comprehend the story for several years after that. And, like Brad, it brings a tear to my eye every time I hear "The Wreck of The Edmond Fitzgerald." Sometimes it's more than a tear.
I still accept Cpt. Cooper's interpretation. The fact the EF lost her rails indicates she may have bottomed out in one of the massive troughs due to her starboard list, which may have increased her draft just enough to allow that to happen. The rails are lost when the ship "hogs." He believed it was either that or she developed a stress fracture and took on more water than they realized. Most of it was toward the bow and when she plunged into one of the troughs, she could have driven her bow under. The added weight didn't allow it to come back up as it normally would. Her screws could have then driven the rest of ship under. Either way, the final failure happened so fast there was no time for even a "mayday" to be sent. Tragic tale.
Another great video. I've always been intrigued with the Edmund Fitzgerald since I was a little kid. I can't imagine the horror that those men went through on that day, but as you said, the interest factor is very high to know what happened. But this definitely adds more details to it.
The Edmund Fitzgerald is probably the biggest part of history for Michigan that I encourage all people to learn about. This video does a great job on explaining and taking a deeper dive into the content than others.
My personal theory based off your video is that the Captain decided to not have all of the hatch latches closed due to the time constraints he was expecting with possible impending weather. A smart decision to head out first rather than take the longer steps to secure the hatches. However, the storm on the lake was already unprecedented and causes the ship's disaster. In the end, there is no definite answer, but a video like this gives everyone more information than pure speculation.
The observations that they headed out before all the hatch covers were secure misses 2 things. The BN docks in Superior are virtually just a few boat lengths from the breakwater. Ships turn around and they are almost in open water. It’s why those docks were busy and are still used today. Second, Fitz left at 2pm on the 9th and didn’t encounter the storm until early morning the next day. All afternoon on the ninth they were discussing the storm and decided to change course. Now the people saying, “Aha! She left port without securing her hatch covers!” would have you believe that in the 11 HOURS after she was seen leaving Superior with some covers still off, and while discussing how they were going to deal with this major storm, no one secured the covers? She left Superior in call water and clear skies and in fact, they were relatively calm all afternoon giving plenty of time to “Make Ready” and dog down.
@scottwendt9575 yes they should have secured all hatch clamps during that calm day.. but they still might not have, and it seems that the NTSB report says they actually did not do so.
I learned about this wreck in great detail back in '76 or '77 in Jr . High in the burbs of Chicago. We had a new Language Arts teacher at the school & this was a good 2 - 3 mos. of a "course" for us. None of the other classes covered this. My Dad was in the Navy, but I don't recall any input or even discussion at the time. I remember being drawn to this event (and still am to this day). I am not a mariner in any way either, I am a car guy - always have been. I just got fascinated with this whole story.
Alexis, you did a great job on this - I will be subbing to see what else you come up with for sure!!
I was born in Flint Mi in 1968 and spent 28 years living in Michigan throughout my younger days, most of which was in SW Michigan, in and around a small town called Three Rivers. Since I was a kid I have always loved the Gordon Lightfoot song. I just listened to it on the way home from work, and being a recent follower of your channel, I thought, what a great story for Alexis to do. The very next video in my feed was this one. :) Serendipitous!
Very much like your stories.
Thanks, Jason! And ha ha, what great timing.
Great video. Well done! I was finishing college in New Mexico when the Edmund Fitzgerald sank. It was in the papers and on the evening news even in New Mexico.
You made a comment early in the presentation about how they took on more cargo than the ship was originally rated for but that it was not considered overloaded though it sat 3 feet lower in the water than rated. I believe that may have been "the straw that broke the camel's back" literally. Having a load like that through calm waters or even choppy waters isn't a problem. But through 20 or 30 foot waves? That would pop a lot of the rivets and crack enough of the welds on that ship with the extra load it was carrying to take on water faster than the bilge pumps could remove. The ship would have sunk like stone (which it did). I wonder if their load didn't shift to midships as the welds started cracking and letting in more water until the ship simple broke in two and abruptly sank. I've seen this happen to semi tractor-trailer rigs where the load shifted suddenly and broke the trailer's back in the middle. A fascinating story and excellent presentation. Well done!
My husband is a semi mechanic, and he has dealt with trailers snapping in the middle fully loaded with glassware. A tight turn caused one trailer to collapse. It made the front page of our local paper.
@@tootsiequilt - Saw one making a turn into a local truck stop. The trailer was buckled right in the middle with the belly of the trailer on the pavement. Took a couple of pictures of it. It was definitely not very pretty. The driver was very unhappy.
Great video, Alexis. I appreciate your attention to detail and you having experts on.
Thanks for adding to the Fitz story. At the time of the Fitz sinking I was 22 we lived on the shore of Lake Erie all my life (still do). I always watched the lake freighters passing by then go to the Cleveland harbor entrance to watch them unload at Whisky Island. We were aware that tragedy could strike any ship but the sinking of the Fitz was horrible. Shipping on any waters is a risky business.
My uncle was slated to be on that ship when it sank. He just so happened to have a change in assignment, but because of the times, my grandma heard the news of it sinking long before hearing from my uncle that he was ok.
Always fascinated by shipwrecks, especially close to home. Thanks for the research and for sharing about this famous mystery!
Wow. What an interesting tragedy. And I don't mean to diminish the immensity of the loss of even a single life, but I could feel the human inclination to try to "solve" mysteries the entire time I was watching this video. I'm so glad you shared what you learned.
I absolutely hear where you're coming from, though. The "loss in one hand and curiosity in the other" feeling is very strong with this one!
@@AlexisDahl I'm a lakes sailor know all and all sailed lake superior lots of times..I seen flexing steel screeching.. hard to explain to someone that never said up there or been a lakes sailors befor...only us sailor know..
@@beedalton9675 I hear you! I sailed on Lakes Freighters for a while back in the 90's, and there are things you just don't forget. Trying to outrun a November storm and make it to port, with the way the wind howls out there, the unholy noises the ship's making, and the way your bunk's on the wall one second, and on the ceiling the next...
Of course, when it's calm, and there's not too much heavy work need's doing, it can also be one of the best places in the world to work. Definitely one of the most beautiful.
This is timely to report as this November approaches. I learned a good amount today , Thank you Mike for joining
There is no way hatch covers! She was taking a list on her starboard side (right) , watching the captain of the ANDERSON. He stated he had talked to Earnest Mcsorley, and he was taking on water and had 2 pumps going . Captain of the ANDERSON said with no uncertainty that he bottomed out on the shoal and had suffered DAMAGED, one thing to note his railing was heaving up and down from his conversation. The plates for the Big Fitz were going to be installed the following seaso, which were located in Pennsylvani. Many knew the ship had structural integrity issues. A VERY important note the load level was lowered on the Fitz so more could be loaded , and almost 3 feet had been lowered to the water line. IF you say water was being soaked up by the Orr in the hatches, then somewhere water was coming in for her to lose bouncy and to go even lower then was remotely safe.I
I have always wondered what happened. Thanks for the info.
I've been obsessed with the Fitz since I've heard the song. I always end up finding myself monthly or sometimes weekly Reading up on the Fitzgerald even if it's the same information over and over again.
But this vlog was awesome to watch. You did an excellent job Alexis doing your own research and talking to an educated individual. I thoroughly enjoyed this video of yours.
I just subscribed to your channel. Can't wait to see what else you're doing next 😊
Well researched and told. Thanks for making such a thoughtful video about the Fitzgerald and her crew. 👍
This was really well done, thank you for taking the time to make this.
Thanks for creating this video. I enjoyed watching it as I have followed/studied this subject for as long as I've known about it. I honestly have the radio traffic with Captain Cooper and cost guard downloaded and listen to it from time to time. I have a lot of respect for that man, and hadn't really given him much thought or realized his role and heroism till a short, as they used to be, podcast "the way I heard it" from Mike Rowe. I am grateful for hearing this as it enticed me to actually dig instead of watching the same documentaries over and over. One of Captain Cooper's thoughts is one that I personally agree with. Keep in mind, and this didn't resignate with me for a long time, but the Fitz, 729 feet, resting at a depth of 530 feet, so it's 199 feet longer than the water depth it was traveling in. The theory I agree with, the finishing blow, was the big waves took the wheelhouse up and then when it came down in the lowest trough of the waves the stern was lifted at the highest peak of the waves, pushing the bow even deeper and striking the bottom causing it to break. Granted other issues earlier in the day lead up to this theory.
I'm sure she was pushed under and the bow was driven to the lakebed, and the force snapped her back, causing the stern to cartwheel over. In the debris field the Fitz is missing 200' of hull... scattered all around the wreckage. THAT is what happened. Lakes often have the wheelhouse go under but 99.9999999% of the time she bounced up. The Fitz hit bottom with her bow in water shallower than her length.
Fantastic video and presentation! Thanks for putting this together!
This is an outstanding video, you've done a great job putting this together. Very well done!
Freezing rain was mentioned. With other problems the weight of the ice on the deck may have played a factor in stability.
Absolutely, Freezing rain could have added 3-6 inches of ice making it sit even lower in the water where the huge waves began tearing it apart even more. Great point Kevin S.
This is an amazing account of this tragedy, and wonderful insight to the changes it brought about in the culture of Great Lakes shipping. You claim to be no expert; your status as an empathetic and curious observer make your discovery so much more relatable to the rest of us. Well done!
This story never gets old. You do a great job telling stories. 👏
On The History Mistory Mans channel. He has an interview with Captain Darrel Walton. His uncle, perished on the Fitz that fateful evening. The video is very interesting.
They didn't lose a hatch cover, all of them were attached on the wreck when she was found. She bottomed out by Caribou that's what caused her to take on water. A huge wave which the Arthur M Anderson experienced caught up with the Fitzgerald and due to the amount of water she had took on and her already low level in the water she took a nosedive. No disrespect but this guy is talking nonsense. I'll take the opinions of Captain's who sailed on similar ships on the Great Lakes for decades.
Wow this was a great video about the ship and sinking! You did a great job presenting it too, you seem like such a nice person. Thanks for doing justice to the story of the Fitz!
I think this is the first and only video I have ever watched about the Fitz that did not have any reference to GL and his most famous song nor have it playing in the background. Thanks for interviewing the expert too.
There's actually another theory called the take deep Theory or the push Theory which is that one large wave pushed the the bow down into the water low and those ships are meant to come back up when they get pushed down but as it was coming back up another wave hit the exact moment and push it down deeper and there was no recovery from it and it just went down. That's the theory I like the most because it makes the most sense. If you look at the damage to the where it broken half and all that it kind of goes together with that theory that the Fitz was pushed deep hit the bottom the way the wind and waves broke the stern off where it was sticking out of the water and it went right down. I think that makes the most sense as to why no one tried abandoning the ship or why there's very little evidence of them thinking that they wouldn't make it through the storm.
First rogue pushes the nose under, nose rises out of the water, nose comes down, a perfectly timed rogue hits and drives the nose further down. Two perfectly timed rogues, or perhaps three. Additive resonance. Ship longer than the water depth, riding lower, taking on water, could be possible.
Someone with the proper education needs to do the calculations.
@@yestfmf that's pretty much the idea of it, I mean the deeper under water the higher the pressure so when it got pushed down deep enough it probably broke the windows and the water rushed in.
I think someone did do the calculations and depending on the "expert" they each say something different about the validity of it.
I remember the first time I saw the life boats, it broke my heart.
Interesting interview, thanks. I was living in Houghton, Michigan when the Fitzgerald sank and remember the day very well. The weather was odd with a somewhat warm and mild day and a very stormy night. This of course resulted in the treacherous seas in lake Superior that the Fitzgerald and Arthur Anderson got caught in. The missing Fitzgerald was being reported widely in the news, especially in the Great Lakes region, but also nationally. So, I have always remembered this sinking and kept up with the information and history. You probably have watched these videos, however I recommend the ongoing series by "History Mystery Man" who was a laker himself. He interviews several people associated with the Fitzgerald, including people that served on it (before it sank of course). I also recommend interviews of Captain Bernie Cooper, Master of the "Arthur Anderson" and Captain Don Erikson, Master of the "William Clay Ford". Both vessels searched for survivors and of course the Arthur Anderson was sailing with the Fitzgerald. Interviews can be found on youTube. The interview with Captain Cooper is particularly memorable where he discusses communication with the Coast Guard and his decision to return and look for survivors at the request of the Coast guard. He said he didn't want to take the risk but then he was thinking about the crew of the Fitzgerald being out there and decided to go back out.
I've seen many vids on this subject. This was probably the best in its "points for" and '"points against" the various arguments. As a kid on the Great Lakes in the 1960s, I used to regularly see the Edmund Fitzgerald near Toldeo, Ohio. Massive. It seemed to take forever for her to go by us as we fished near Toledo. Well done Alexis.
Thank you, Richard! I really appreciate that.
When I was a student at NMU one of my classmates in ecology called them cocoa puffs during our outdoor labs too!
Ha ha, I'm glad I'm not the only one who had that thought!
I've always believed that the Three Sisters theory lead to the hatch damage. Remember the winds were out of the west driving waves across the length of the lake and crashing into the east shoreline. After hitting the east shore the water would go back west and collide with the next waves coming east. This with the ship riding low in the water would allow a rouge wave to lift the stern and drive the bow into the shoal combined with the know keel issues the unsupported load at the center of the ship was more than it could support.
@@daleolson3506 Not disputing your memory. You were there, but Ironwood is almost at the other end of the lake from Whitefish Point. Either way with a west or north wind it would have been coming across a lot of open water. Allowing waves from either the north or west to hit the shore and wash back against the wind.
Just wanted to say thanks for the arrow in the thumbnail that shows 2 people and a ship. I couldn't parse that information without it and the arrow pointing to the expert was incredibly helpful.
There is a memorial in Gloucester, Massachusetts to those that go down to the sea in ships. In this case the Great lakes are the same as oceans.
This video is another memorial to the men and women that sail our inland seas. Thank You.
FWIW - A long time ago and far, far away I sailed on a genuine Liberty ship across the Pacific Ocean. That took along uneventful time.
I still think it's odd that Fitzgerald's exact sister ship, Arthur B Homer was sent to the scrap yard about a decade after the Fitzgerald tragedy. Despite millions of dollars spent on fixing the Homer up and making the ship longer just a few years prior
My personal opinion is that the big Fitzgerald hit bottom on six fathom shoal and foundered soon after. Look at the map where she ended up on the bottom. It's right beyond the shoal in Canadian waters. I think she hit bottom. That boat drew 28 feet of water fully loaded. The shoal is only 36 feet. It bobbed up and down in the storm and hit bottom. They call it shoaling
That's the theory I find credible. The hull being carried on a wave over shallow shoal dropped down onto the bottom and bounced up on the next wave and carried on. Somewhat like the three sisters theory. This however bent the keep upwards in the middle which caused hatch covers to dislodge but not a gash more of a breaking the ship's back and opening the deck plates.
Nice/great presentation !! You did the story justice. And it warms my heart to see young folks delve into history like this.
Inspiring ❣❣❣
🚬😎
My dad worked on the docks and he was also part of the team that did the refit on the Fitz just a few years before it went down. That was a sad day in our house since Dad knew the captain and several other men who were lost.
I used to visit Paradise Michigan which is in the U.P. near White Fish Bay from time to time and when I did I would stand on the shore and think about the Fitz being somewhere out there on the bottom of that cold lake. I had friends who sailed on lake boats and they told me about some scary moments during those Fall storms. Such a tragedy.
not buying your expert opinion. the ef hit bottom the three sisters did her in.
Thanks for putting this together!
Such an awesome ship, veteran captain, and extraordinary experience of a story; told by so many greats!! I love your take and finds..
Absolutely terrific video!! Great Job!!❤❤
I'm just going through all your videos, as I'm still fairly new to your channel, and, Wow, what a great video! Put together very well. Great closing to the video as well.