I have heard from unreliable sources that Manscaped products are actually the worst of their kind. Buyers, do some research before you buy! Edit: it's not a scam, they just pour much more money into marketing than their products, and it shows.
Really, manscaped is the one shill I don't like around YT. Why? Just because advertising to shave my privates in the middle of a documentary feels disturbing.
You didn't mention one key fact. The Master of the Anderson risked HIS life, crew, and ship, to go searching for the Fitz after she went down. He made it to Whitefish Bay. Reported her missing, then turned around and went back out. Into a November Storm. On Lake Superior. That had claimed the Pride of the American Side.
The Anderson and the William Clay Ford were the only ships that risked going out to Superior to look for the Fitz in the initial search. It wouldn't be until the next day(s) when there would be more ships to join the search.
@@vyvianalcott1681 Don’t be an immature troll. I for one had no idea that the Henry Clay Ford was involved in the search. So I thank TUT for stating that fact. Edit: I mistakenly called the vessel Henry Clay; should be William Clay Ford.
I was just on the SS Arthur M. Anderson as 2nd Assistant Engineer and boy is she a strong ship. 70 years old and still keeping up with the much newer ships.
She was older than the Fitz and was stretched in 1975 so she was actually older AND bigger than the Fitz that night. Her mid-section is soft because of the stretch so she loads about 1,500 tons less cargo than the other big boats at Great Lakes Fleet,Inc.
@j.griffin all true. I was just acknowledging the fact that she is old but still keeping up with the big boys. When I was at the throttles, the engines always responded well to everything that was demanded of them.
@@Coolengineer30 Oh,I wasn’t disputing anything. “A man’s got to know his limitations…” -Clint Eastwood As Inspector “Dirty” Harry Callahan in “Magnum Force” The Anderson operates within her limitations- the owners of the Fitz got greedy and raised the load line 3 times. The owners, Northwestern Mutual Life Insurance Company, actually got the U.S. Coast Guard to increase the load line for the Edmund Fitzgerald those three times - in 1969, 1971, and 1973 - to allow her to carry 4,000 tons more than she was originally designed&intended for. These changes allowed for 3 feet, 3.25 inches less minimum freeboard overall. Because of that, the ship’s deck was only 11.5 feet above water and she was considerably overweight, according to her original intended specifications. This made the ship especially sluggish and slower to recover and decreased her buoyancy when facing the waves on that fateful November 10th. The Skipper had already said that she was never the same after that- if she fell off in a heavy head sea they would sometimes have to make a complete 360 to get back on course. She’d just wallow in the troughs between the waves and the waves would just keep pushing her off from recovering her heading. “Prior to the load-line increases she was said to be a ‘good riding ship’ but afterwards, the Edmund Fitzgerald became a sluggish ship with slower response&recovery times. Captain McSorley said he did not like the action of a ship he described as a ‘wiggling thing’ that scared him. Now, the Edmund Fitzgerald's bow hooked to one side or the other in heavy seas without recovering and made a groaning sound not heard on other ships.” It’s common to stretch and refit ships for various reasons- as long as it is done well and they are managed properly everything should be fine. The Anderson is a survivor and has been well taken care of- I believed what you said. I was in no way casting shade on you or that fine,old girl.
Most people underestimate the power of the Great Lakes. They are more like inland seas that fresh water lakes. The waves on the great lakes have a much shorter frequency than in the ocean making it harder to ride them out.
As a Great Lakes Sailor (engineer) I never ever underestimate the power of the lakes. I've also been on the oceans as well and the Great Lakes are definitely worse.
My youngest son has spent time up in the Northwoods, Boundary Waters, and on Superior. "The Northwoods and Boundary Waters want you to live, but they want you to work for it. Superior just wants you dead."
I know I wouldn't have before watching channels like this. For someone with no experience it's easy to look at it's size on a map and not give it much thought.
As a Michigander, the story of the Fitzgerald is almost legend. Old timers use it as a warning to explain the power of the Lakes. Living on the 3rd coast is interesting, almost everyone is a boater. Outsiders think the Lakes are just big lakes but they are actually inland seas. Events like rogue waves have been recorded, and the storms are no joke. The Fitzgerald is one of over 6000 ships that lay on the muddy bottoms. These bodies of water are not to be taken lightly. For an example of how large they are, Lake St. Claire looks like a swimming pool compared to the Great Lakes and it's still the 15th largest lake in the country...
The main problem, speaking as an outsider as I’ve lived in Arizona my whole life, is that they’re named “Lakes” and even tho you see them on a map, rivaling STATES in size, for some reason hearing “lake” at the end puts a damper on guesstimating the size. At least, that’s how I perceive it. But you’re absolutely right, it’s not just a big lake you can hardly see the opposite coast of, you absolutely can not see from one coast to the other side because the damn earth is curved and they’re that big so as you can only see the water.
From what I hear, they're called lakes because they're not saltwater. But yeah, as someone near Lake Erie in Toledo, they're like freshwater inland seas.
@@Kroggnagch I live on the north shore of Lake Ontario near Toronto. I've flown Cessna 172s along the shoreline, and even from 3000' up you STILL can't see the opposite side of the lake!
Living in Michigan, many children learn about this wreck in school. The lakes have claimed thousands, but gave us a maritime heritage that I've seen light up the eyes of children when they see a tallship set her main or the lights of a freighter steam across the horizon. Tragedies like this become a shared history.
Man I remember these were our favorite our favorite lessons as kids. It probably also helped that at the time I lived and went to school in Sault Ste. Marie letting us imagine how this would happen in more detail as we saw Lakers every day passing through the locks
May God rest the men (29) that lost their lives when Big Fitz went down. The bodies are still there (except 1 found lying on the lake bottom next to the wreck) still intact due to the cold and lack of bacteria at that depth). The site has been declared a gravesite and no one can go there without government permission. The artist Gordon Lightfoot donated all the proceeds from his song The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald to the families of the men lost in the sinking.
I was first introduced to the story of the Edmund Fitzgerald by this song I didn't know that he made it as an act of charity it is heartwarming to see people come together in times of crisis
The Anderson crew were heroes that day, both guiding the Fitzgerald, looking for her after losing contact and leading the hours long search operation after the storm
Quite a few went out to search...not just the Anderson...most of those vessels still sail the lakes today. Salt water vessels really close to the area of the Fitz refused to help
@@insertnamehere313 I wouldn't, but I believe in the "needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one". What good would it have done to have the other freighters become storm victims too?
I grew up in Superior, WI, and one of my earliest memories is the night the Fitzgerald went down. My dad got called into work because of the storm, and I remember my mom following the story on the radio, as she waited for him to get home.
My great grandfather was a helmsman on the great lakes for most of his life, and he had a lot of opinions about the Fitzgerald going down. Foremost of this was the stress put on it by the choppiness of the waves on the lake--in the ocean, the waves are bigger than the ships, so you just ride on top--but on the great lakes, the waves are smaller, such that you can have a wave at the front and back of the ship but not at the middle, and vice versa. This causes it to bend one way and the other over and over, and on a welded ship like this it won't cause damage until it just snaps in half.
There's footage of the wreck with many of the hatch clamps undone. Not sheared or broken, just not used. That had quite a lot to do with water getting into the ship.
@@ShortArmOfGod This seems to be heavily disputed as the reason she went down though. Many former crew members said that the guy in charge of making sure the crew secured all of the hatch clamps took it very seriously and never would have allowed that to happen. Who knows though. 🤷🏼♂️
They have pretty much concluded it wasn’t hatch covers that caused it. But a lot of ppl don’t realize the Fitz had been set for repairs of the keel plates during the off season due to cracks or problems. The Fitz was not considered safe by some of the other people sailing on the boats. Her hull maintenance was not up to par and the boat was somewhat abused trying to keep its records.
I’m a chief mate on the Great Lakes in the Canadian fleet. I have always had a huge interest in this marine disaster. You did a very good job in explaining the dynamics of this disaster, with theories I do agree with, less the hatch covers being unsecured. I personally feel the hatch covers were secure, and I side with Captain Bernie Cooper, that she bottomed out on the shoal north of Caribou Island. The unsecured hatch cover theory in my opinion is just a cop out for the US Coast Guard.
What did the US Coast Guard do for you to say they copped out? There was an old saying among Coast Guard crews, "you have to go out, you don't have to come back"! (Note: I believe that has changed after losing crewmembers during the "Perfect Storm") Since the local USAF base had an all- weather airfield, and a USAF hospital, it was alerted to receive possible survivors if picked up by helicopters. We played cards until 0200 hours and were told to go back to the dorm.
It seems like the crew always gets the blame. Either from the government investigators or the shipping company. Typically, both. The company doesn't claim any liability, so they are happy. The investigators get an easy answer for a nearly impossible question. I don't believe that the hatches were undogged. I think the storm was too much, and the Fitz lost the battle just before reaching the safety of Whitefish Bay. From what I understand, over the course of about a year and a half she had suffered damage from a few collisions that occurred after the increased load limit. She used to handle beautifully, but the added weight really changed the dynamics. She wasn't designed to haul that much. It changed how she handled and rode in the water. It made her very difficult to sail. The accrued damage and increased load are key factors in my mind. She just couldn't do it anymore in that storm.
When the Captain reported he had lost his radar, that was likely due to waves. That would mean that a wave roughly 40 feet high crashed over the bow (the radar was located on top of the bridge, about 39 feet above the water).
I couldn't see this video title without thinking "The legend lives on from the Chippewa on down Of the big lake they called Gitche Gumee The lake, it is said, never gives up her dead When the skies of November turn gloomy"
I first heard that song as I was going along on the freeway in the Chicago area. I turned off and stopped on the shoulder to listen to it, and of course later I bought the recording. Being from the Detroit area it rang a bell with me. In the seventies we operated a sailboat on Lake Erie and we'd occasionally see the Fitz going in and out of Toledo. In fact the marine architect who designed the hull was a friend of my father and he gave us a framed blueprint of the ship which my dad still has hung on the wall where he lives.
My Father sailed this route as a wheelsman in the 1920s. He was involved in storms of this nature, always in November. He mentioned an incident where the Engineer threatened to put out the fires in the boilers because waves were pouring into the engine room and scalding the firemen coaling up the fires. That would have been a catastrophic decision. One of his ships, the Mathewston, was hauling wheat from the head of the lakes, and was nicknamed "The Hunchback" due to a warped hull it received during a bad storm. With huge waves that accompany the winds, and my Father often mentioned the "three sisters", the hull can be balancing primarily on one or two waves which works the structure back and forth, and eventual failure of the hull can occur. Respect to the lost sailors.
It's math people whose parents were around back then in the 1920s would have kids in the 1930s -1950s. I'm certain he's between 90 something - 50 something years old depending when he was born.
One of my earliest memories is watching a distressing Edmund Fitzgerald program with my grandparents at the the Great Lakes maritime museum. Now I'm watching your video a few hundred feet from some choppy great lakes waves outside my window! There's something so extremely unsettling about this type of sinking, like the Derbyshire, where the ship just sits lower and lower in the water, waves leaving more and more green water on deck until it's overwhelmed and slips beneath one last time.
I grew up in Sault Ste. Marie, MI and had the pleasure of knowing the painting-Artist Pat Norton, who lived in a small cottage on the St. Mary's River, down river from the Sault Locks. She paints the freighters steaming by her cottage, including the Edmund Fitzgerald. My sister bought one of her prints of the ship, which Mrs. Norton arranged for Gordon Lightfoot to sign, 1 of only 10, and hangs proudly above her mantle in her Bay City home. We Yoopers have a great deal of respect and reverence for Great Lakes sailors, and by extension, to Gordon Lightfoot's many excellent songs. Rest in Peace Mr. Lightfoot (May 1, 2023) and thank you for your contribution to American music culture and the immortal dignity of the story you sang of The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald.
Pat Norton's prolific work is displayed throughout the area, as is another talented artist, Mary Demroske. I have a great example of her work displayed in my cottage just west of Iroquois Light, on eastern edge of Superior. I hope you enjoy your art & your time with mighty Lk.Superior.
The Fitz also needed to go in drydock for repair she was badly neglected, and her sister ship was proof when she went in drydock after the sinking of the Fitzgerald. There's a good interview with the nephew of Ralph Walton and talks about the condition of the edmund fitzgerald when she sank
The Fitz had already been lengthened. That’s what the issue was with the keel plates. The stress was causing issues with the hull under stress. Most likely the hull was failing and started leaking. So it was just being docked to repaid the hull due to hull being lengthened years prior
My deer blind over looks whitefish bay, during the week after it went down. Over 20 ships were still anchored in the bay. Waves at whitefish point we're in the 16-18 foot range and winds were still minimum of 35 mph. The howling sound it made in the woods was deafening. Lake Superior's color changes during these winter storms, it turns a dark black... It is very intimidating, even evil looking.
Personally I believe it was a combination of the the load draft being increased, the high seas, and her bottoming out. The captain of the Anderson at the time, Bernie Cooper, was adamite that the only way the Fitz would have lost her railings was if she either stress fractured or bottomed out. The hatch cover theory was also highly frowned upon by other captains, as even if the hatches aren't fully secured, they weigh several tons and would remain firmly on the deck in heavy seas. With any water coming through being minimal to none. My personal take is for one reason or another, Edmund Fitzgerald sustained underwater damage just south of caribou island. She either stress fractured or bottomed out on a shoal. After that point, she started slowly dropping in the water. As the waves rolled up her deck, her bow would end up plunging down into them. Eventually, the inflow of water became too great, she plunged into another wave and never came back up. The first sign to the crew that anything was wrong would've been her impacting the sea floor and the subsequent wall of water smashing through the cabin windows, explaining the lack of a mayday.
I wouldn’t discount hatchcover so readily. Apparently even in modern times they are not always secured properly. And sometimes or allowed to rust so the weight of the water can break through them.
The fact Arthur B Homer the exact sister ship of the Fitzgerald was scrapped a decade after the Fitzgerald loss despite many millions of dollars spent to lengthen her, leads me to believe stress/hull failure more than shoaling. Lake Fleets knew, and so nobody bought her and they quietly scrapped the Homer blaming the economy and (yet older vessels with smaller cargo capacity were still sailing and the tens of millions spent to lengthen the Homer just years prior)
@@HoshizakiYoshimasa Well, the company that owned the Homer scrapped other ships in their fleet, nearly the same age around the same time, the 1980s was a terrible time for the steel industry, and the numbers have never really recovered since.
We'll never know for sure, but a couple key factors or comments not considered was Bernie Cooper saying he had 2 massive waves roll over him from behind and heades towards the Fitz. Cooper believed it was those two waves that did they final deed. Also the Fitzgerald is nearly 200 feet longer than the depth of the water she rest in. Its highly possible that she augured her bow which would be a sudden stop, the stern would have been out of the water almost 200 feet and Still moving! The boat most likely snapped at that moment, having the bow stopped and on the bottom while the stern moving and the mid section snapped, most likely where she was weakened. It would have been one load sound. I remember talking to a Canadian man that lived along shore east of where she went down say he heard what sounded like a metal shopping mall being torn apart. Like a thousand dinosaurs screaming. What was it? RIP crew.
The fact the SS Arthur B Homer the exact sister ship of the Edmund Fitzgerald was scrapped a decade after the Fitzgerald loss despite many millions of dollars spent to lengthen her years prior, leads me to believe stress/hull failure more likely than shoaling. Former Fitzgerald crewman Richard Orgel and Red Burgner testified Fitzgerald's hull was "wiggling" too much in bad weather. Even saying Captain McSorley himself was frightened by it sometimes. The Lake Fleets deep down knew there likely was a design flaw, and so nobody bought The Arthur B Homer and they quietly scrapped the Homer blaming the economy. yet older vessels with smaller cargo capacity were still sailing. But who knows? (Shrug)
the "wiggling" was a fix to the problem that rigid hulled ore freighters had. in storms like the one encountered by the fitz two stiff hulled ships broke up on the surface. the flex allowed the freighters to under take more stress. despite this it was unnerving to sailors who had been on rigid hulled ships before
@@cludecat7072I don't think crew experienced with this ship would have that problem. Especially when none of them had any complaints about it before the modifications to her waterlines.
I absolutely subscribe to the Homer theory. Total cover-up. Examine the Homer's architecture and you'll see the structural failings of the Fitzgerald. But the industry got rid of the evidence. The memos and documented proof are in a vault somewhere.
On the anniversary in Detroit, the bell rings 29 times in honor of the crew. When Gordon Lightfoot, a songwriter who memorialized the event shortly after it occurred, passed away, it rang 30.
I gotta tell ya, I grew up a mile from the Pacific ocean. I watched the sunset on the beach everyday from my high school job. You know what that gave me? A refusal to go out into big water. I don't foresee me, ever, getting on a seaworthy vessel for the entire of my life and yet I watch your videos as soon as I see the notification, I don't even scroll past it, it's an immediate click. So thank you and well done mate.
The eastern end of Lake Superior is notorious for monstrous seas for a specific reason. Most storms and gales sweep over the lake from west to east, churning a lot of energy into the water. As they move east and the Michigan and Ontario shorelines get closer together, that energy not only has less room to move around but it actually bounces off the coastlines, causing wave action from 3 different directions.
I really think the large rogue waves had something to do with it. If they were trully 30 feet tall, and the bow was in a trough, the bow could have been 50-60 feet lower than the stern. With reduced buoyancy from taking in water through the hatches and possibly even shifting cargo, two of those monster waves in succession and slow recovery likely (imo) caused the bow to dive straight to the bottom. I think it came as a shock and in an instant.
That's basically been my opinion for years now. Big rogue waves, water ingress, and then just plowing into the trough of the next big wave and never popping back up. It makes sense because the ship is broken in two, which likely happened when she finally hit bottom being that she was longer than the water depth.
@@446hemi about a minute after fitz left Anderson's radar, three massive rouge waves rolled over Anderson. she likely bottomed out and rode lower and lower and the rouge waves sealed her fate.
If I recall correctly, the Anderson reported that 2 rogue waves had just hit her and were heading to the Fitz at 6:46pm, with possibly a 3rd wave. Again, if I’m remembering correctly the Anderson reported that the 2 waves that’d hit her were 30 and 35 feet. I’d also think it likely that a rogue wave or waves knocked out the Fitz’s radar
One of my next door Neighbors husbands friend was the second Stewart for the Fitzgerald when she went down on that fateful day, his name was Allen G. Kalmon, the Fitzgerald has always fascinated me especially as somebody who has lived by the Great Lakes all my life. I may not be a Michigander or Minnesotan since I live in Wisconsin, but I’ve gone to superior since I was little and the Fitzgerald will always be a topic of great interest, especially since it was made in Wisconsin.
My grandfather drove a tanker truck on the north shore of Lake Superior. Fitzgerald didn’t start running on fuel oil, but it was converted later in its career. My grandpa often had to delay dinner because “The Fitz was in” and he had to fill it with fuel oil. They lived on the lake and my grandmother described the night with “like the devil himself was outside”. My mom had a school classmate whose father went down on it.
Great video. Anyone who's never heard, should listen to 'The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald' by Gordon Lightfoot. Amazing song. RIP to the crew of a beautiful ship.
I think that the Gordon Lightfoot's song is why the the Fitz is still widely remembered to this day. The El Faro sank 2015 and it's not as widely remembered. Maybe Gordon can write another song...
@@mxg75 it no where near as good as the original. I have no clue why people like that version so much. It's good but besides the instruments. It's nothing really special that would last the test of time like Gordon Lightfoot song
You failed to mention the most obvious possibility. The wind and waves were being driven by the high northwest winds which meant that the Fitz was taking waves up the stern. As those massive rogue waves hit, the stern would raise first, driving the Fitz's bow underwater. The theory is that one of those waves was so large that it lifted the stern high enough and drove the Fitz's bow under and she struck bottom, the sheer weight of the load of Taconite ore (pronounced Takonite) basically overloaded and blew the ship in half by the sheer weight of the shifting load. As the bow struck bottom, the sheer inertia of the shifting load broke the ship in half when the bow hit bottom. The stern was rolled inverted by the torque from the still running engines.
@@brianbudney9117The bow is pretty beat up, actually. I don’t know if it’s consistent with a sudden 500+ foot plunge, but just about everything is tweaked.
I've followed this story for 49 years now. I grew up on the Lakes, so was very interested in the Lakers. I agree with the idea that the most likely cause was one or more significant following waves. The Anderson, approximately 10 miles behind, reported these two very large waves pushing her own bow under around 1830 hours. So, the timing would be about right for these two waves to catch up with the Fitzgerald. I believe that she was taking on water for hours, due to either loose hatchcovers, and/ or missing deck vents. This is possible because when fully loaded, the freeboard of this vessel was pretty low, maybe 10 feet or a bit higher. But low enough, at any rate, to allow tons of water to wash over the deck for long periods of time. So, in summary, she was already slowly sinking, and these large following waves just finished the job in seconds. We know it was immediate because of the lack of any radio or distress call.
The Edmund Fitzgerald had accommodations for 36 crew and 4 passengers at the forward and aft ends of the ship on the upper and main decks. McSorley's rooms were on the upper deck just under the bridge. He had a private cabin with his own bathroom plus an office and lounge overlooking the main deck. There were also two double cabins for private guests, each with a private bathroom. Below on the main deck there were 6 more cabins for the deck crew, 3 on each side and each with private bathrooms for the bridge crew. The 3 starboard cabins were singles for the officers, while the 3 port cabins were double cabins for the 3 wheelsmen and 3 watchmen. In between was a rec room. Moving aft, on the upper deck there were 3 dining rooms, each for officers, crew and guests as well as the galley. There were also 4 cabins. The shipkeeper had a single cabin, while the cook, 2 waiters and 3 stewards shared the other 3 double cabins. On the main deck were 12 more cabins. 5 were private cabins for the lead engineers. The other 7 double cabins berthed 5 seamen, 3 firemen, 3 coalpassers and 3 oilers.
@@EdA-qh7qr I found the deck plans for the ship and I saw how the ship was planned to function. I was surprised to see some of the crew even had their own private bathrooms.
@@Utuber-x44 I feel like your reply won't be understood by many. It sounds like you just mean that it should not be some heavy metal musician (haha, heavy metal, iron ore...) So I'll spell it out :D you meant Mr. Gordon Lightfoot who already made the song The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald
I could be wrong, but I believe a heard on a podcast that the railing that had broken isn't solid the way it was in this animation. It's actually long steel cable and the 'hogging' caused it to exceed its length and snap.
I was born and raised near the huron coast in Michigan. Its fun to show someone from a different state or country a great lake. They never get over not being able to see the other side because of the earths curvature. The shear size only then starts to sink in.
@TrickedZap she was just shy of 730ft long. The rear 200ft of her wouldve still been above water when the bow struck bottom Not long enough for any crew in the rear to have a chance, but maybe just long enough to know they were doomed
@@callsignapollo_ "she was just shy of 730ft long. The rear 200ft of her wouldve still been above water when the bow struck bottom" Sure, IF she was perfectly *vertical* when this happened. 90 degrees angle. In what universe would she suddenly go straight down like a spike?? Because even if you use a highly unusual and improbable 45 degrees angle then she'd have to be *750ft* long and that's counting the stern being barely above water. The pythagorean theorem is highly useful. Some seem to have forgotten about it once they left school. Ships having their backs snapped is nothing new or unusual. Especially if the ship carries a heavy load and hasn't been properly maintained. I'd say the Edmund Fitzgerald buckled immensely under the high waves. The rear bulkhead simply gave away when the bow and stern were lifted, while the middle part sagged down from an insane load. *Snap* Game over.
The story I read about the Three Sisters is that after they rolled up the stern of the AA Captain Cooper got on the radio and warned Captain McSorley that they were coming. Cooper's radar was periodically losing contact with the EF due to the weather, but the EF went down in the time it took for the radar to make one revolution.
They might have split up or they might have capsized They may have broke deep and took water And all that remains is the faces and the names Of the wives and the sons and the daughters
I like the "twist/flex" theory, that the hull could just not take anymore flexing and broke apart. The FItz was the biggest for her time. The longer you make a stick the easier it is to snap it in two, coupled with the larger waves she was ridding. It makes a lot of sense
I suggested this almost 2 years ago. Thank you for finally making this video; I understand you may not have seen my comments, but as a lake-state resident, this means a lot to me. Probably means a lot to the families as well.
My personal theory for this wreck stems from the fact that it was so...abrupt. They had no time to jump out or to get to the lifeboats. Taking into account the fact that the wreck is sitting at a depth of 530 feet, which is shallower than she was long, I think that one of the rouge waves came over the bow and forced the bow down. Bow hits the floor of the lake, causes the stern to torque off, accounting for how it's split up. This also gives account for how quick it was, and how no distress call was given. *shrug* This is just my opinion through.
The main theory has it that she grounded at 6 fathom shoal... that's why she was taking water. The more likely cause of the sinking was not that she was taking huge waves over the bow, but that the waves were rolling up the stern, forcing the stern up and forcing the bow underwater. A big enough wave would force the bow under and the weight of the ship would drive her into the bottom. The shifting weight of the 26,000 tons of taconite ore basically blew the ship in half when the bow crashed into the bottom.
The legend lives on from the Chippewa on down Of the big lake they called Gitche Gumee The lake, it is said, never gives up her dead When the skies of November turn gloomy With a load of iron ore twenty-six thousand tons more Than the Edmund Fitzgerald weighed empty That good ship and true was a bone to be chewed When the gales of November came early The ship was the pride of the American side Coming back from some mill in Wisconsin As the big freighters go, it was bigger than most With a crew and good captain well seasoned Concluding some terms with a couple of steel firms When they left fully loaded for Cleveland And later that night when the ship's bell rang Could it be the north wind they'd been feelin'? The wind in the wires made a tattle-tale sound And a wave broke over the railing And every man knew, as the captain did too T'was the witch of November come stealin' The dawn came late and the breakfast had to wait When the gales of November came slashin' When afternoon came it was freezin' rain In the face of a hurricane west wind When suppertime came, the old cook came on deck sayin' "Fellas, it's too rough to feed ya" At seven PM, a main hatchway caved in, he said "Fellas, it's been good to know ya" The captain wired in he had water comin' in And the good ship and crew was in peril And later that night when his lights went outta sight Came the wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald Does any one know where the love of God goes When the waves turn the minutes to hours? The searchers all say they'd have made Whitefish Bay If they'd put fifteen more miles behind her They might have split up or they might have capsized They may have broke deep and took water And all that remains is the faces and the names Of the wives and the sons and the daughters Lake Huron rolls, Superior sings In the rooms of her ice-water mansion Old Michigan steams like a young man's dreams The islands and bays are for sportsmen And farther below Lake Ontario Takes in what Lake Erie can send her And the iron boats go as the mariners all know With the gales of November remembered In a musty old hall in Detroit they prayed In the maritime sailors' cathedral The church bell chimed 'til it rang twenty-nine times For each man on the Edmund Fitzgerald The legend lives on from the Chippewa on down Of the big lake they called Gitche Gumee Superior, they said, never gives up her dead When the gales of November come early-some Canadian legend
I think you're pretty much spot on, the Anderson mentioned being concerned that those 3 Waves may have cought up to her. And in a following see with the bow riding low and listing that's dangerous enough, then while trying to navigate All of that it's possible a rouge wave caused by shoreline rebound pushed the bow down even more. If you've seen pictures you'll notice the visor on the pilot house bent down and I believe that can only happen with a wave breaking over it.
I had a 24 feet long by 16.5 inches wide kayak. I had it out on Lake Ontario not to far from shore ie. less than a quarter of a mile. Just for fun as an experiment I allowed a fair bit of water to come into the boat. When paddling into a wave it was very difficult to get the bow to come back up again and to make that a bit easier I had to bend my back rearwards and lay almost flat along the rear deck. Being that the Fitz's captain had radioed in that the had water coming in, and that the sinking was very sudden (or the radio gear was no longer capable of sending) I too think that the Fitz nosedived into a large wave and then was driven under by a large or series of large waves from astern.
Sailors had commented that after her load line was increased, that instead of shedding water quickly (like she had done since she was built) the Fitz struggled as water slowly left her main deck. Also, it is possible, that even though she cleared 6 fathom shoals, the wave action could have caused her to "hog". (Similar wave action sank the Moran) So, a weaken hull, from the hog, followed by the 3 sisters that hit the Anderson which was behind the Fitz, probably sank her, especially if one of the waves was amidships and another wave shoved her stern up..... Her stern is upside down on the bottom so obviously it came loose about the same time as the bow slammed into the bottom. One of the debates about her sinking is exactly when the aft quarter to a third of the ship broke off. Part of the problem is that the section we need to see suffered a catastrophic failure, and is now sheets of metal under several 1,000s tons ore!
Something I’ve recently learned about is a phenomenon called liquefaction that will occur in certain types of cargo. Certain dry and even metals will have a condition where the liquid will shake it and cause it to change from a solid mass capable of being walked upon to a suspension that would allow a person to sink into it. As it does it allows the whole mass to readily shift in the hold. If the vents were dislodged by waves flowing along the deck then with enough water intrusion some of the forward holds could have allowed the ore to shift forward enough to prevent recovery. I don’t believe it broke up until the bow struck the bottom since the ship was longer than the water was deep. Because of this the engine would cause the propeller to constantly drive the bow into the bottom. Once it struck hard it would have buckled the hull and once the stern broke completely the torque would have caused the stern to capsize. I base this on pictures taken of the bow where the steel was buckled outward above the trough it created. Since the hull was steeply inclined all of the cargo was shifted forward causing all the weight to blow the plates outward between the ribs forward. Liquefaction explains the nose dive, and the bow hitting the bottom explains the breakup. With this theory it simplifies the combination of events needed to lose buoyancy. I also hadn’t heard of vents instead of hatch covers opening up along with lowering in the water. Reduced freeboard increases the risk of mishaps. Altering a ship’s design usually doesn’t have a good outcome.
A lot of people underestimate the sheer power these lakes have, the waves the unpredictable weather, so on and so forth. Waves that flow in the lakes (or also known as inland seas) are practically none stop. These lakes have an average of 80-100 drownings a year. They are monstrous and not to be underestimated. As a wise singer Stan Rogers once said "they're almost enchanted" In rougher conditions with shorter wave periods (around 3 seconds) with a rough estimate, you could experience up to 20 waves per minute or 300 waves every 15 minutes.
I’ve seen what superior is like during a heavy gale and it’s no playground, these are rough fast moving rouge waves. Considering no radio distress signal was sent. It was quick and catastrophic and the fitz was swamped by a rogue wave and took a nose dive, before the force of the waves at the stern literally snapped it in half like a piece of celery
Even though "lakers" such as the Fitz have had careers that have lasted over half a century (the Arthur M. Anderson is still working), a large part of that longevity is based on how well the ship is taken care of. The Fitz was pushed hard throughout her time in service--breaking her own records for individual loads carried, and loads carried in a season--and had more than her fair share of hard hits with piers, and the walls of the locks. You can only push things--and people--so hard for so long, before they fail.
I tend not to believe the idea that some of the clamps were insecure. No sailor on the Great Lakes would be caught dead leaving a clamp insecure in November.
We visited Sault Saint Marie, MI last summer and saw the Edmund Fitzgerald's two lifeboats on display. I hardly ever hear them mentioned. With modern forensics I would imagine they contain clues. One was literally sheared in half! They were badly mangled.
ripped free from their davits most likely. no bodies were recovered on the surface which is unusual if they had made an attempt to launch the lifeboats.
You should cover another Great Lakes ship that suffered a similar fate called the SS Daniel J Morrell that broke in half just a few years prior in 1966 the sinking was gathered in great detail by the only survivor accounting what he saw saying that when the ship broke up he and three others jumped on a raft and the bow sunk but the stern actually kept sailing about 5 miles past the bow before sinking it would be absolutely horrific to see the back half of your ship sail off into the stormy night with all the lighting still on
@@446hemi dude I wasn’t talking about the fitz and besides both the morell and fitz broke in half now not exactly the same way but they did break in two the similarities arise from that they both split in two not how they did
Maritime Horrors covered this and according to former crew testimony and previous CG inspections, she wasn't in the best shape by the time she went down. Although she's only one of many bulk carriers that have broken in half on the Great Lakes. Being long and skinny while carrying such heavy cargo in such rough waters seems to have that effect.
I was in the merchant navy for twenty years and always feel for the lost crews and their families when I read these accounts. It's even worse when the actual cause has never been determined as it means there could be other crews in danger of meeting the same fate.
I remember that storm. I was at, a lake front cottage, in Tobermory Ontario at the time. Even though Lake Superior was 200 kilometres north west of were I was, the storm very severe with extremely high winds and heavy rain. The next day we heard on the radio that the Edmund Fitzgerald sank. It was such a bad storm were I was, I can't imagine how bad it was on the lake.
Grew up in Wisconsin. We were always told the rogue wave is what did her in. 70+ foot wave hit her head on and it basically was suspended between the swells (backside of the wave and the secondary smaller wave) after making it through the wave. Basically she got suspended in a "U" with the center of the ship being suspended with no support causing it to snap.
if you look at the wreck and how close the bow and stern are as well as a portion of the spar deck missing, and the fact no distress call was sent and that she vanished so quickly, it is nearly impossible that she broke up on the surface
My brother in law was also out the same night and 14 miles behind Edmund Fitzgerald the night she went down. He was on the bridge when he said the ship disappeared from the radar. I am originally from Newfoundland, and I also had a friend who worked on fishing trawlers in the Atlantic, and he had worked on Lakers on Lake Superior! He told me that he had been in Atlantic storms that never bothered him. But he also told me that there were nights on Superior that he thought that he would not see the morning light... the waves were that bad! His conclusion was that because its an inland sea, the waves have nowhere to go except back into the lake, unlike in the North Atlantic ocean and it makes them much more intense!
A fact I haven't seen mentioned in the prior comments (granted I might've missed it): the Edmund Fitzgerald was one of the first Great Lakes freighters to have a welded hull instead of a riveted one. Riveted hulls can flex more in rough seas whereas welded hulls are more apt to snap. I've read that the Fitz was due to have repairs made to its hull before the sailing season; but, they were postponed because there were plans to lengthen it during that winter's layup ('75-'76). Interestingly; the Edmund Fitzgerald had a sister ship, the SS Arthur B. Homer, that was built the same way, with welds instead of rivets. It actually was lengthened that winter, which was not a cheap thing to do, but then was suddenly retired only five years later and scrapped sometime in the '80s. For comparison; the Arthur M. Anderson, the ship that was selling with the Fitz the night it sank, was six years older at the time of the incident, yet is still in service today.
I believe that the ship cargo holds not being completely filled, because of the high specific weight of the iron ore, allowed the cargo to roll over one side - while the ship herself was rolled by the waves. And the ship laying on one side caused it to sink. Whatever the cause, it is a sad story of bad luck. Thank you for telling. Regards, Anthony
Or, since there were no real bulkheads dividing the main cargo hold (as in just 1), it is possible that the 3 sisters caused the ore to shift forward and cause the plunge....
@@timengineman2nd714 the fitz three holds, thus 4 bulkheads one on each end and two splitting the holds. the arthur m anderson however has 5 holds thus 6 bulkheads (one on each end and 4 in between). the Fitz's bulkheads were not water tight though...
@@timengineman2nd714 they were suppose to be true non water tight bulkheads. That is not to say the two bulkheads at the ends of the cargo area weren't water tight per the blueprints. From how I understand it though the two dividing bulkheads were not water tight. None of them were on those ore haulers at the time. The biggest issue is that the holds were massive . The Fitz was much larger than the Anderson, but had less holds than the Anderson . Another thing I am unsure of is could the ore the was carrying undergo a phenomenon called liquefaction? This is a dangerous situation in bauxite haulers.
@@signolias100 From my understanding (reading various articles) the ore could soak up water (it was iron so basically turning into rust) but I don't think it could liquify. However, it could shift and take out what some called dividers (i.e. the intermediary non-watertight bulkheads) and shift forward preventing the Fitz from recovering from her bow being shoved under, and then her hitting bottom while her stern was in the air (lifted out of the water by the wave). Also, she could have hogged without hitting at 6 fathom shoals! There's a video about the SS Moran (I don't remember the spelling of that ship's name) where she was hit with a wave that basically lifted her midships and left both the bow and the stern in too little water (due to troughs) to support them. Then as the waves moved forward (the were coming from astern like what happened to the Fitz when she sank) 2 waves supported Moran (Morran?) bow and stern but basically left her midships unsupported. She too sank in a bad storm....
My third grade teachers dad helped look for the Edmund Fitzgerald that night. I remember he came into our class to tell us about it. I don’t remember too much but it was one of the most interesting story I’ve ever heard. Rip to all 29 on board
I grew up in that area an watching the storms come in across Lake Superior. They were terrifying and exciting and if Ihad not seen them with my own eyes, I would never believe that such a force was possible from a lake. As an adult I have seen 2 hurricanes, one in Florida and one Mississippi, and I spent time in the North Sea duiring winter. Nothing compared to the ferocity of the waves during Lake Superior storms. They need to be witnessed to be believed.
I believe after observing pictures of the wreck. Visor over wheelhouse smashed down...forecastle covered ( full) with silt. Bow was driven into the bottom breaking in two. If it broke on surface stern would be further away.
The bow section of the wreck is also pointed on a heading of 125 degrees, which is very close to the heading the ship was on to reach Whitefish Bay. I firmly believe the ship bottomed on 6 Fathom Shoals, began taking in water, and foundered by nosediving into the lakebed and breaking apart. Just like Bernie Cooper thought.
The bridge has implosion damage. Meaning it was not flooded beforehand. The cargo hold hatches weren't secured and water entered the hold. The ship lost buoyancy, and a big wave put her bow under and the engine in the rear drove her right to the bottoms hard and fast the bridge imploded, and no one ever called for help. She went to the bottom like a torpedo
Apparently she had a sister ship, ARTHUR B. HOMER. It would have been interesting to see if there were any problems with her. I assume someone did a study. I often think how three of the four navy collier's PROTEUS class ships mysteriously disappeared and the fourth one was converted to the first US aircraft carrier and was scuttled by her crew. There was likely a fatal design error or a free surface problem in that class.
You showed the correct wave and wind direction. However right after when talking about the Three Sisters, the three big waves that nearly caused the Arther M Anderson to broach and capsize, you show them hitting from the bow when they were from the stern. It must also be mentioned that while the Big Rollers where from the stern the echo effect of the lakes confined space was making for a confused Sea effect with some waves coming from the south and some from the East. Three captains including the skipper of the Aurther M Anderson, as well as some top navel Salvage experts all said that the only thing that would account for Nun of the crew even getting off the ship and how fast it sank was that the three big rouges hit her One lifting her stern shifting the already heave bow lode and then the second pushed her bow under, allowing the smaller but still large confused waves to pile on to her already diving bow, then the third caused the ship to plunge or Submarine and as she did the stern would have twisted and separated from the stress as it lifted. Her Crew would have never had a chance to get out and the entire ship would have been under water in the three minutes needed to explain why Auther M Anderson who passed over the exact spot not five minutes later seen no sign of her. As someone who has worked the rough seas of the Baring Sea for most of my life, I know how ships react to a fallowing sea. Only this explains how they would have been caught so unprepared and would not have sent off some message or had time to get over the side. Might I suggest you have a listen to this as well, It's the radio traffic from that night after the Anderson reported her missing. Its eerily haunting. ruclips.net/video/W1fOWi0teiY/видео.html
I have a picture hanging up of the Carl D Bradley, which was also found split in two. That’s another interesting story, because there was a huge court case over weather the sinking was an Act of God or not, with the company that owned the vessel trying to claim that it was so they wouldn’t have to compensate family members of the victims, but they eventually settled with the families
the bradley was in extremely bad shape though and shouldn't have deviated course to try to do another run. had the bradley continued on with it's normal plans there is a chance the bradley wouldn't have sunk.
@@tgland02494 I am pretty sure that has changed. For example the Arthur M. Anderson which was built in 1952 is still in service. This makes her 71 years old. Your statement was true in the past, but today's standards makes neglecting the great lakes freighters a risky proposition.
I have always been interested in the different ways Fitz could have sank none theory is exactly as shown, that the bow could have impacted the bottom while the stern was still on the surface. Thanks for the example showing exactly this
I'll always pay my Respect's to the Men that lost their lives Nov. 10th 1975.. And Thank Gordon Lightfoot for the beautiful folk song that tells the story of it all, since Mr. Lightfoot setup the royalties/proceedings go to the surviving family members of the (29 fallen Men) which is amazing. Godspeed to you All, on your Journey. 💙
Something I feel should be mentioned is that there is around 100ft of the spar deck that is nothing more then twisted metal on the lakebed. The prevailing theory is when the Fitzgerald hit the lakebed the forward momentum the direction of travel, currents, overall weight and perhaps the ships engine still running caused the bow to hit bedrock and because bedrock is immovable the forward momentum caused the ship to suffer an accordion effect, literally the stern pushing against the bow with such force it obliterated most of the middle of the ship and spun off hence why the stern is split from the bow and capsized
All I know is, I couldn't possibly imagine what it must've been like to be on that ship, being above water, then within a second immediately being under and not coming back up. 😱
Taconite is pronounced with a hard "C" like a "K" not the soft "C". Taconite pellets is very fine iron ore that is pressed into a pellet shape about the size of a lead ball from a musket. One other thing about ships on the great lakes. They are not required to have the cargo area bulkheads to be watertight like ocean going ships. This means water entering one hold can freely flow throughout all holds. You had more information and better information on the Edmund Fitzgerald than many videos three times as log. I also liked the animation. Good job! I'm subscribing & watching some of your other videos. I'm looking forward to the Derbyshire video. It sank the year I entered the navy.
My dad was stationed on the USCG Woodrush when they went out after the Fitzgerald and he at minimum followed the investigation, he said that the bow of the Fitzgerald was driven 28 feet into the mud. I can’t remember if he thought the Three Sisters waves was possibly the best theory to explain it diving into the mud.
He would have been under the command of Capt Hobaugh, who gave a perfect description of the conditions during the search. Ive personally seen the WR many times on vacations to Mackinac. Ive never been able to imagine that boat doing a roll to 50 degrees on the day they were searching for Fitz survivors.
@@CrewGuyPJ Yeah, my dad had said the conditions were really bad on the lake. I have seen the lake with what I thought was bad conditions but it probably didn't come close to that storm.
If you look at the under water images of the ship. .. especially the video of a diver retrieving the bell... The bow and pilot house have crush points like a beer-can being pushed together (top and bottom and the middle crushing inward). All the windows appear to have been blown out, door is missing. I have come to believe the ship did take on water, began to ride low, until the she dove in-between two waves, her stern ride high...the weight of iron ore and water shifting, drover her bow first the lake bottom. All the force, crushed the bow, and snapped the ship in half. They found some life rafts... one split in half the others bow is crushed, like the Fitz itself. If you have never been on the Great Lakes, when a storm whips up... it's freakish... and the lakes are NOT forgiving. The mentions of three sisters isn't just three waves...its three cross-chop waves. When the lakes get all riled up, they waves cross each other at there worst, they meet in the middle for a triple stack, each bring its own power, when they hit...its a wall of water is dense... even 4 -6 footers hitting will plow you down and into the lake bottom...
I thought that after they found her they discovered that she hadn’t broken in two but foundered and took on water. And even Gordon Lightfoot regretted the “Main hatchway gave in” line because it is still intact, proving that the crew had not failed to secure it.
Another theory is because of the wind and waves coming at the boat from behind the 3 sisters waves you were talking about came up on the boat from behind and while the front end sank on the backside of one wave the back end was raised up by the other and it was speared into the oceans bottom. With the damage to the front end of the boat that can be seen in photos taken on the bottom it is very possible.
The captain of the Anderson recorded at 630pm that night of the possibility of "three sisters" it's a set of 3 waves back to back. Normally a single rogue wave wouldn't pose a serious risk seeing as the Anderson went through it. But Edmund already had 2 dire issues, listing and water already on deck. When three sisters hit, the first wave hits and puts water on your deck, but doesn't allow the water to disappate quickly as the second and third waves hit in quick succession. With her already at slow speed I'd imagine the waves hit that much harder. Considering that there was possible 80+mph gusts, there was no way Edmund would've been able to limp back to Whitefish Bay for relative safety. The reason why no survivors are ever recovered is because of the temperature of the water. The water is so cold year round that bacteria literally can't grow to cause bloat. I think year round it generally stays at 36degrees at the fathom depth Edmund sank at. Especially during November the upper and lower waters mix perfectly that it all becomes 36 degrees.
I've researched the Edmund Fitzgerald for many years, and to this day I believe that the Edmund Fitzgerald was struck by a rogue wave because when I look at the wreck, I see damage from waves from the storm. I know what it's like to be in a huge storm. I grew up living next to the ocean here in Alaska and I've been in a storm. The storm I was in happened in 2007 and I was only 16 years old at the time. My dad and I went camping with some friends of ours behind some islands in Alaska known as the Chiswell Islands. At the time we were using my dad's landing craft her name was Janet May. A day after we left port a radio report came in about a huge storm in our path. We were looking at 16-foot to 25-foot-tall waves with hurricane-force winds up to 72 mph. it was a really bad storm. So, my dad had a choice to make either way hang out there for a few days till it calms down or I would say the heck with it and drive right through it. And of course, my dad chose to drive right through the storm, and by a miracle, we made it home. We did lose the radio antenna, but it was all worth it to get back home. The reason why my dad wanted to drive right through the storm is because at the time we had 200 pounds of fish on board. We didn't want it to let it spoil and feed to the birds. We wanted to go back home and make a bunch of good meals out of it.
Hey I love your videos and here’s another great one, but I do have some tiny complaints, over in the Great Lakes area we call it “tack”a night and Michigan sounds like MISH again thanks so much keep up the great work
They tried to squeeze in one last trip instead of tying up to the dock for the winter as normal. Nobody got paid unless they made a trip. Also the ship was getting old. Old worn ships can be dangerous. Also had extra large holds. Some structure was eliminated for larger holds. Less structure (bulkheads) made the ship more flexible and less strong.
Amazing how even lakes that are a fraction of the size of the mighty oceans can drag huge vessels to their graves god rests the souls of the Edmund Fitzgeralds crew,good thing the Author M Anderson is still in service BTW great artwork
Having spent much time on and around Lake Superior, I can tell you these are not simple lakes. They have tides because of differences in air pressure on either side of the lake. The waves can be massive. The fact that it is fresh water means it is also less buoyant. There is a theme that being a sailor on the great lakes can be a much more harrowing time compared to their seaborne brothers.
Having grown up in the St. Lawrence valley, i have no doubt that these lakes are every bit as powerful as the ocean. Even tiny lakes like Cranberry lake (about 5sqmi) can produce 3ft waves with whitecaps (rolling) on a windy day making it unsafe (at least very unpleasant) to be on in a boat sized for the lake. The St. Lawrence river itself is about as wide as a typical lake except its very straight and generally aligned with the prevailing winds, it has a swift current and the combined wakes of various small boats and the cargo ships can make it quite choppy even on a good day. During a storm it can definitely make some nasty waves. (Although a cargo ship would probably be more scared of all the rocks & wrecks and getting pushed out of the channel and grounding in a storm more than the waves on the river. The great lakes themselves are 1000% terrifying in a storm, very deep, very cold, and larger than some states so the wind has lots of space to build up big waves and windspeed. Plus Erie and Ontario are aligned to the prevailing winds which means in the late fall & winter they just constantly dump lake effext snow on the Buffalo and Watertown areas respectively. (And lake effect always starts falling over the lake and contiues onto shore, and anyone who has driven in lake effect can tell you it drops visibility to 0 so its probably worse than fog for a ship to be caught in. And as i final note, flooding and storms can drag all sorts of crap out i to the lakes like trees and docks, i don't know how bad it is for a cargoship to hit a dock but one will certainly ruin your 18ft fiberglass pleasure boat. The lakes are amazing but they are more akin to freshwater inland seas than what normal people consider a lake. (They are basically the Med but colder and drinkable)
I was raised in south Texas very close to the Gulf of Mexico and haven't even experienced a lake bigger than a football field so I suppose if I ever do travel to a great lake I best take your advice
@suzannee6673 maybe they should be called inland seas cause when you hear a lake swallowed a ship as big as the Fitz you get a more confusing picture when you don't know the actual story
I remember that night vividly. I was going to college in Sault Ste Marie, Ontario. My girlfriend and I caught the bus which took us into the down town area. As it drove along, the wind was breaking windows along the street. The few people that had to walk anywhere were leaning forward as much as possible in order to not get blown off their feet. Changing buses, we really felt it, the terminal was pretty tiny and there were hordes of people. When the bus got to our street, the driver actually stopped outside our front door as my girlfriend was still kinda wobbly after an accident a couple weeks before. I miss that town, and the friendly people there. RIP to the crew of the Edmond Fitzgerald.
I think this particular type of storm is called a Nor'Easter. For those of us on land, it means a lot of wind, snow, and rain. They can be downright deadly if you're sailing on the lakes.
It was actually a Panhandle Hook, Nor'Easters happen along the east coast and track from the Gulf to Newfoundland, Panhandle Hooks are powerful winter storms that spawn from a cold air disturbance from the Rockies that spins up into a cyclone along the dry line in the Texas/Oklahoma panhandle region (hence the name) fueled by warm moist air from the Gulf and then tracks into the Great Lakes region where it sometimes bombs out after crossing the lakes, and that is exactly what the storm of 1975 did. The storm that brought down the Fitz also caused a nasty blizzard in Wisconsin and Michigan and a tornado outbreak from Iowa to Indiana.
I was in Duluth playing hockey that day. That storm was ugly. I have seen storms on Lake Superior in the winter pole ice on the shore 2-3 stories high. Great Lake storms are nothing to mess with. And what makes it hard on superior is it’s shape west to east. Where Lake Michigan goes north to south being narrow. Though all the lakes have taken many lives in storms. If that storm happened today they would blame climate change.😅
@YTCensors Tglander isn't wrong though. Every nasty weather event now you have politicians blaming "climate change". I just heard some nut testifying in MN legislation that because we have had a snowy winter that it's due to "climate change".
Capt McSorley reported he had lost his starboard railing to the Anderson , so the railing was an issue before She went down. That transmission was before the final " We`re holding our own" . As well, your pictograph shows more than 3 cargo holds. Although She had many hatches, She had 3 cargo holds, the Anderson had 5. She broke records for cargo time and again and was overloaded continuously to break those records. You also mentioned She may have broke in half, then sank..a similar wreck was the Daniel J Morrell. There was but 2 survivors . The Morrell broke in 2 , and as the life rafts were deployed, some swam and made it to the rafts. While on the rafts and the bow now almost completely under water, in all the commotion they saw another ship.. they waved their arms yelling. That other ship, was the stern section that had just enough of fore up angle to motor 5 miles away not before plowing into the bow section on it`s way . The Fitz on the other hand, shows the bow had hit the bottom, very hard leaving an imprint of several feet. Everyone has an opinion, none of us were there . With Capt McSorly reporting a loss of the starboard railing, the break up in all probability due to stress cracks - others that served on Her reported hearing groaning previous to the loss. The 3 sisters wave has credibility here in that the flashing above the wheelhouse is hammered down- so , yes, as you said She may have taken a hard hit on the bow, and wheelhouse wave 1, with Her bow down in a trough, the second larger wave 2 pressed on the stern while the bow was down further flexing midships , adding to a stress fracture , or flexing of the hull as She rose from the first wave and the stress of the 3rd wave encroached- by that time the taconite being like marbles had found it` way to both fore and aft, ultimately breaking Her to the point of almost in half- with taconite both fore and aft , that 3rd wave sent her hard to the bottom- the bow section implanted in several feet of seabed, the stern flipped upside down and not showing the same type of impact. Given 729 feet long and 540 feet of water yes She may have hit hard on the bow implanting in the lakebed , with stern still raised , causing the final break up with the stern finding it`s way upside down after the impact. The shroud above the wheelhouse may very well be the telltale that She took an extremely hard wave and was already stress fractured midship , had water in the cargo holds with taconite finding it`s way fore and aft further stress fracturing. We all have our theories. Let`s learn from each other and never forget the brave souls that were lost on that fateful evening. All opinions, theories and comments welcomed .
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You didn't mention one key fact. The Master of the Anderson risked HIS life, crew, and ship, to go searching for the Fitz after she went down. He made it to Whitefish Bay. Reported her missing, then turned around and went back out. Into a November Storm. On Lake Superior. That had claimed the Pride of the American Side.
The Anderson and the William Clay Ford were the only ships that risked going out to Superior to look for the Fitz in the initial search. It wouldn't be until the next day(s) when there would be more ships to join the search.
She’s definitely the most respected boat on the lakes.
When asked to go back out, Captain Carlson told the Coast Guard, "if I go out there could be two ships on the bottom." But he did anyway.
@@vyvianalcott1681
Don’t be an immature troll.
I for one had no idea that the Henry Clay Ford was involved in the search. So I thank TUT for stating that fact.
Edit: I mistakenly called the vessel Henry Clay; should be William Clay Ford.
@@vyvianalcott1681 And what exactly did you add to the conversation except toxicity?
I was just on the SS Arthur M. Anderson as 2nd Assistant Engineer and boy is she a strong ship. 70 years old and still keeping up with the much newer ships.
She was older than the Fitz and was stretched in 1975 so she was actually older AND bigger than the Fitz that night.
Her mid-section is soft because of the stretch so she loads about 1,500 tons less cargo than the other big boats at Great Lakes Fleet,Inc.
@j.griffin all true. I was just acknowledging the fact that she is old but still keeping up with the big boys. When I was at the throttles, the engines always responded well to everything that was demanded of them.
Not to mention that the boilers (my babies) always gave as good as they got.
@@Coolengineer30
Oh,I wasn’t disputing anything.
“A man’s got to know his limitations…”
-Clint Eastwood
As Inspector
“Dirty” Harry Callahan
in
“Magnum Force”
The Anderson operates within her limitations-
the owners of the Fitz got greedy and raised the load line
3 times.
The owners,
Northwestern Mutual
Life Insurance Company,
actually got the U.S. Coast Guard
to increase the load line for the Edmund Fitzgerald those three times -
in 1969, 1971, and 1973 -
to allow her to carry 4,000 tons more than she was originally designed&intended for.
These changes allowed for
3 feet, 3.25 inches less
minimum freeboard overall.
Because of that,
the ship’s deck was only 11.5 feet above water and she was considerably overweight,
according to her original intended specifications.
This made the ship especially sluggish and slower to recover and decreased her buoyancy
when facing the waves
on that fateful November 10th.
The Skipper had already said that she was never the same after that-
if she fell off in a heavy head sea they would sometimes have to make a complete 360 to get back on course.
She’d just wallow in the troughs between the waves and the waves would just keep pushing her off from recovering her heading.
“Prior to the load-line increases
she was said to be a
‘good riding ship’
but afterwards,
the Edmund Fitzgerald became
a sluggish ship with
slower response&recovery times.
Captain McSorley said he did not like the action of a ship he described as a ‘wiggling thing’
that scared him.
Now,
the Edmund Fitzgerald's bow hooked to one side or the other in heavy seas without recovering
and made a groaning sound not heard on other ships.”
It’s common to stretch and refit ships for various reasons-
as long as it is done well and they are managed properly everything should be fine.
The Anderson is a survivor and has been well taken care of-
I believed what you said.
I was in no way casting shade on you or that fine,old girl.
@j.griffin got ya. Wow, now that is something there about the Fitz. Also, love the Clint Eastwood quote.
Most people underestimate the power of the Great Lakes. They are more like inland seas that fresh water lakes. The waves on the great lakes have a much shorter frequency than in the ocean making it harder to ride them out.
Yep, and I believe (not sure on this) Superior has the shortest of frequencies. You see a lot of 3 sisters out there.
As a Great Lakes Sailor (engineer) I never ever underestimate the power of the lakes. I've also been on the oceans as well and the Great Lakes are definitely worse.
My youngest son has spent time up in the Northwoods, Boundary Waters, and on Superior.
"The Northwoods and Boundary Waters want you to live, but they want you to work for it. Superior just wants you dead."
I think it's fair to consider them inland seas.
I know I wouldn't have before watching channels like this. For someone with no experience it's easy to look at it's size on a map and not give it much thought.
As a Michigander, the story of the Fitzgerald is almost legend. Old timers use it as a warning to explain the power of the Lakes. Living on the 3rd coast is interesting, almost everyone is a boater. Outsiders think the Lakes are just big lakes but they are actually inland seas. Events like rogue waves have been recorded, and the storms are no joke. The Fitzgerald is one of over 6000 ships that lay on the muddy bottoms. These bodies of water are not to be taken lightly. For an example of how large they are, Lake St. Claire looks like a swimming pool compared to the Great Lakes and it's still the 15th largest lake in the country...
Correct. I'm born and raised on Lake Michigan. People come here every year without educating themselves and find out the hard way.
The main problem, speaking as an outsider as I’ve lived in Arizona my whole life, is that they’re named “Lakes” and even tho you see them on a map, rivaling STATES in size, for some reason hearing “lake” at the end puts a damper on guesstimating the size. At least, that’s how I perceive it. But you’re absolutely right, it’s not just a big lake you can hardly see the opposite coast of, you absolutely can not see from one coast to the other side because the damn earth is curved and they’re that big so as you can only see the water.
From what I hear, they're called lakes because they're not saltwater. But yeah, as someone near Lake Erie in Toledo, they're like freshwater inland seas.
@@danalarose846 yes
@@Kroggnagch I live on the north shore of Lake Ontario near Toronto. I've flown Cessna 172s along the shoreline, and even from 3000' up you STILL can't see the opposite side of the lake!
Living in Michigan, many children learn about this wreck in school. The lakes have claimed thousands, but gave us a maritime heritage that I've seen light up the eyes of children when they see a tallship set her main or the lights of a freighter steam across the horizon. Tragedies like this become a shared history.
I remember we had a whole unit about it in 5th. Fun times
Man I remember these were our favorite our favorite lessons as kids. It probably also helped that at the time I lived and went to school in Sault Ste. Marie letting us imagine how this would happen in more detail as we saw Lakers every day passing through the locks
same in Minnesota most be a great lake state thing
There is a coloured $20 Canadian coin of the Edmund Fitzgerald. I have two in my private collection and one is for sale.
I’ve heard that the legend lives on from the Chippewa on down.
May God rest the men (29) that lost their lives when Big Fitz went down. The bodies are still there (except 1 found lying on the lake bottom next to the wreck) still intact due to the cold and lack of bacteria at that depth). The site has been declared a gravesite and no one can go there without government permission. The artist Gordon Lightfoot donated all the proceeds from his song The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald to the families of the men lost in the sinking.
I luv Gordon likefoot
@@thedentfamily8467He passed away May 1st 2023 and has been buried in his hometown of Orillia, ON
I'm convinced the majority of the crew are entombed in the stern. She had accommodations for 36 crew, 10 forward and 26 aft
I was first introduced to the story of the Edmund Fitzgerald by this song I didn't know that he made it as an act of charity it is heartwarming to see people come together in times of crisis
The Anderson crew were heroes that day, both guiding the Fitzgerald, looking for her after losing contact and leading the hours long search operation after the storm
Quite a few went out to search...not just the Anderson...most of those vessels still sail the lakes today.
Salt water vessels really close to the area of the Fitz refused to help
Maybe we. plural. Should make a song like the Edmond
@@insertnamehere313In retrospect, the only thing that the other boats accomplished was to place their crews in unnecessarily peril.
@@spaceflight1019 If you was in the freezing water struggling to stay alive..wouldn't you want someone out there trying to help find and rescue you.
@@insertnamehere313 I wouldn't, but I believe in the "needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one". What good would it have done to have the other freighters become storm victims too?
I grew up in Superior, WI, and one of my earliest memories is the night the Fitzgerald went down. My dad got called into work because of the storm, and I remember my mom following the story on the radio, as she waited for him to get home.
My great grandfather was a helmsman on the great lakes for most of his life, and he had a lot of opinions about the Fitzgerald going down. Foremost of this was the stress put on it by the choppiness of the waves on the lake--in the ocean, the waves are bigger than the ships, so you just ride on top--but on the great lakes, the waves are smaller, such that you can have a wave at the front and back of the ship but not at the middle, and vice versa. This causes it to bend one way and the other over and over, and on a welded ship like this it won't cause damage until it just snaps in half.
There will be cracking that's almost invisible because it's inside the metal, plus metal fatigue. It stresses the importance of NDT.
There's footage of the wreck with many of the hatch clamps undone. Not sheared or broken, just not used. That had quite a lot to do with water getting into the ship.
@@ShortArmOfGod This seems to be heavily disputed as the reason she went down though. Many former crew members said that the guy in charge of making sure the crew secured all of the hatch clamps took it very seriously and never would have allowed that to happen. Who knows though. 🤷🏼♂️
metal fatigue is no joke.
They have pretty much concluded it wasn’t hatch covers that caused it. But a lot of ppl don’t realize the Fitz had been set for repairs of the keel plates during the off season due to cracks or problems. The Fitz was not considered safe by some of the other people sailing on the boats. Her hull maintenance was not up to par and the boat was somewhat abused trying to keep its records.
I’m a chief mate on the Great Lakes in the Canadian fleet. I have always had a huge interest in this marine disaster. You did a very good job in explaining the dynamics of this disaster, with theories I do agree with, less the hatch covers being unsecured. I personally feel the hatch covers were secure, and I side with Captain Bernie Cooper, that she bottomed out on the shoal north of Caribou Island. The unsecured hatch cover theory in my opinion is just a cop out for the US Coast Guard.
i agree, McSorley and his deck boss would have them secured. she reportedly had bottom damage already.
What did the US Coast Guard do for you to say they copped out? There was an old saying among Coast Guard crews, "you have to go out, you don't have to come back"! (Note: I believe that has changed after losing crewmembers during the "Perfect Storm") Since the local USAF base had an all- weather airfield, and a USAF hospital, it was alerted to receive possible survivors if picked up by helicopters. We played cards until 0200 hours and were told to go back to the dorm.
I think jealous Canadians sunk her for some type of national pride and queen thing.
@@GardenerEarthGuythe captain of the Fitzgerald was born in Canada
It seems like the crew always gets the blame. Either from the government investigators or the shipping company. Typically, both. The company doesn't claim any liability, so they are happy. The investigators get an easy answer for a nearly impossible question.
I don't believe that the hatches were undogged. I think the storm was too much, and the Fitz lost the battle just before reaching the safety of Whitefish Bay.
From what I understand, over the course of about a year and a half she had suffered damage from a few collisions that occurred after the increased load limit.
She used to handle beautifully, but the added weight really changed the dynamics. She wasn't designed to haul that much. It changed how she handled and rode in the water. It made her very difficult to sail.
The accrued damage and increased load are key factors in my mind. She just couldn't do it anymore in that storm.
This wreck struck my family pretty hard and I have always wanted to know the answers to these questions. I appreciate you taking the time. Thanks.
When the Captain reported he had lost his radar, that was likely due to waves. That would mean that a wave roughly 40 feet high crashed over the bow (the radar was located on top of the bridge, about 39 feet above the water).
Could easily have been an electrical failure of that equipment. Giant waves seem to get the blame for everything these days.
I couldn't see this video title without thinking
"The legend lives on from the Chippewa on down
Of the big lake they called Gitche Gumee
The lake, it is said, never gives up her dead
When the skies of November turn gloomy"
Because of this song, I already knew she was carrying 26,000 tons of iron ore
@@wiesejay Mad props to Gordon for getting most of the times right too lol
Excellent!
@@jackschulte6185 lyricly a masterwork in how to write a song
I first heard that song as I was going along on the freeway in the Chicago area. I turned off and stopped on the shoulder to listen to it, and of course later I bought the recording. Being from the Detroit area it rang a bell with me. In the seventies we operated a sailboat on Lake Erie and we'd occasionally see the Fitz going in and out of Toledo. In fact the marine architect who designed the hull was a friend of my father and he gave us a framed blueprint of the ship which my dad still has hung on the wall where he lives.
My Father sailed this route as a wheelsman in the 1920s. He was involved in storms of this nature, always in November. He mentioned an incident where the Engineer threatened to put out the fires in the boilers because waves were pouring into the engine room and scalding the firemen coaling up the fires. That would have been a catastrophic decision. One of his ships, the Mathewston, was hauling wheat from the head of the lakes, and was nicknamed "The Hunchback" due to a warped hull it received during a bad storm. With huge waves that accompany the winds, and my Father often mentioned the "three sisters", the hull can be balancing primarily on one or two waves which works the structure back and forth, and eventual failure of the hull can occur. Respect to the lost sailors.
Dude how old are you?
@@moonshroom711 72
Probably 90-70 i imagine he was most likely born sometime in the 1930s -1950s
It's math people whose parents were around back then in the 1920s would have kids in the 1930s -1950s. I'm certain he's between 90 something - 50 something years old depending when he was born.
One of my earliest memories is watching a distressing Edmund Fitzgerald program with my grandparents at the the Great Lakes maritime museum. Now I'm watching your video a few hundred feet from some choppy great lakes waves outside my window! There's something so extremely unsettling about this type of sinking, like the Derbyshire, where the ship just sits lower and lower in the water, waves leaving more and more green water on deck until it's overwhelmed and slips beneath one last time.
I grew up in Sault Ste. Marie, MI and had the pleasure of knowing the painting-Artist Pat Norton, who lived in a small cottage on the St. Mary's River, down river from the Sault Locks. She paints the freighters steaming by her cottage, including the Edmund Fitzgerald. My sister bought one of her prints of the ship, which Mrs. Norton arranged for Gordon Lightfoot to sign, 1 of only 10, and hangs proudly above her mantle in her Bay City home. We Yoopers have a great deal of respect and reverence for Great Lakes sailors, and by extension, to Gordon Lightfoot's many excellent songs. Rest in Peace Mr. Lightfoot (May 1, 2023) and thank you for your contribution to American music culture and the immortal dignity of the story you sang of The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald.
Pat Norton's prolific work is displayed throughout the area, as is another talented artist, Mary Demroske. I have a great example of her work displayed in my cottage just west of Iroquois Light, on eastern edge of Superior. I hope you enjoy your art & your time with mighty Lk.Superior.
The Fitz also needed to go in drydock for repair she was badly neglected, and her sister ship was proof when she went in drydock after the sinking of the Fitzgerald. There's a good interview with the nephew of Ralph Walton and talks about the condition of the edmund fitzgerald when she sank
And his dad was the 30th crewman but never went on that trip cause the state she was in
Fitzgerald was going to be in drydock to be lengthened, like her sistership was.
The Fitz had already been lengthened. That’s what the issue was with the keel plates. The stress was causing issues with the hull under stress. Most likely the hull was failing and started leaking. So it was just being docked to repaid the hull due to hull being lengthened years prior
@@tgland02494 I read a book on just that subject. I think it was THE NIGHT THE FITZ WENT DOWN.
@@tgland02494 the fitz never got lengthened.
My deer blind over looks whitefish bay, during the week after it went down. Over 20 ships were still anchored in the bay. Waves at whitefish point we're in the 16-18 foot range and winds were still minimum of 35 mph. The howling sound it made in the woods was deafening. Lake Superior's color changes during these winter storms, it turns a dark black... It is very intimidating, even evil looking.
That sounds so spooky. 🥺
Personally I believe it was a combination of the the load draft being increased, the high seas, and her bottoming out. The captain of the Anderson at the time, Bernie Cooper, was adamite that the only way the Fitz would have lost her railings was if she either stress fractured or bottomed out.
The hatch cover theory was also highly frowned upon by other captains, as even if the hatches aren't fully secured, they weigh several tons and would remain firmly on the deck in heavy seas. With any water coming through being minimal to none.
My personal take is for one reason or another, Edmund Fitzgerald sustained underwater damage just south of caribou island. She either stress fractured or bottomed out on a shoal. After that point, she started slowly dropping in the water. As the waves rolled up her deck, her bow would end up plunging down into them. Eventually, the inflow of water became too great, she plunged into another wave and never came back up. The first sign to the crew that anything was wrong would've been her impacting the sea floor and the subsequent wall of water smashing through the cabin windows, explaining the lack of a mayday.
Adamant, not "adamite".
I wouldn’t discount hatchcover so readily. Apparently even in modern times they are not always secured properly. And sometimes or allowed to rust so the weight of the water can break through them.
The fact Arthur B Homer the exact sister ship of the Fitzgerald was scrapped a decade after the Fitzgerald loss despite many millions of dollars spent to lengthen her, leads me to believe stress/hull failure more than shoaling. Lake Fleets knew, and so nobody bought her and they quietly scrapped the Homer blaming the economy and (yet older vessels with smaller cargo capacity were still sailing and the tens of millions spent to lengthen the Homer just years prior)
Your theory is not wrong
@@HoshizakiYoshimasa Well, the company that owned the Homer scrapped other ships in their fleet, nearly the same age around the same time, the 1980s was a terrible time for the steel industry, and the numbers have never really recovered since.
We'll never know for sure, but a couple key factors or comments not considered was Bernie Cooper saying he had 2 massive waves roll over him from behind and heades towards the Fitz. Cooper believed it was those two waves that did they final deed. Also the Fitzgerald is nearly 200 feet longer than the depth of the water she rest in. Its highly possible that she augured her bow which would be a sudden stop, the stern would have been out of the water almost 200 feet and Still moving! The boat most likely snapped at that moment, having the bow stopped and on the bottom while the stern moving and the mid section snapped, most likely where she was weakened. It would have been one load sound. I remember talking to a Canadian man that lived along shore east of where she went down say he heard what sounded like a metal shopping mall being torn apart. Like a thousand dinosaurs screaming. What was it? RIP crew.
The fact the SS Arthur B Homer the exact sister ship of the Edmund Fitzgerald was scrapped a decade after the Fitzgerald loss despite many millions of dollars spent to lengthen her years prior, leads me to believe stress/hull failure more likely than shoaling. Former Fitzgerald crewman Richard Orgel and Red Burgner testified Fitzgerald's hull was "wiggling" too much in bad weather. Even saying Captain McSorley himself was frightened by it sometimes. The Lake Fleets deep down knew there likely was a design flaw, and so nobody bought The Arthur B Homer and they quietly scrapped the Homer blaming the economy. yet older vessels with smaller cargo capacity were still sailing. But who knows? (Shrug)
Interesting details I wasn't aware of.
Huh. I never knew that.
the "wiggling" was a fix to the problem that rigid hulled ore freighters had. in storms like the one encountered by the fitz two stiff hulled ships broke up on the surface. the flex allowed the freighters to under take more stress. despite this it was unnerving to sailors who had been on rigid hulled ships before
@@cludecat7072I don't think crew experienced with this ship would have that problem. Especially when none of them had any complaints about it before the modifications to her waterlines.
I absolutely subscribe to the Homer theory. Total cover-up.
Examine the Homer's architecture and you'll see the structural failings of the Fitzgerald.
But the industry got rid of the evidence. The memos and documented proof are in a vault somewhere.
On the anniversary in Detroit, the bell rings 29 times in honor of the crew. When Gordon Lightfoot, a songwriter who memorialized the event shortly after it occurred, passed away, it rang 30.
I gotta tell ya, I grew up a mile from the Pacific ocean. I watched the sunset on the beach everyday from my high school job. You know what that gave me? A refusal to go out into big water. I don't foresee me, ever, getting on a seaworthy vessel for the entire of my life and yet I watch your videos as soon as I see the notification, I don't even scroll past it, it's an immediate click.
So thank you and well done mate.
The eastern end of Lake Superior is notorious for monstrous seas for a specific reason. Most storms and gales sweep over the lake from west to east, churning a lot of energy into the water. As they move east and the Michigan and Ontario shorelines get closer together, that energy not only has less room to move around but it actually bounces off the coastlines, causing wave action from 3 different directions.
I really think the large rogue waves had something to do with it. If they were trully 30 feet tall, and the bow was in a trough, the bow could have been 50-60 feet lower than the stern. With reduced buoyancy from taking in water through the hatches and possibly even shifting cargo, two of those monster waves in succession and slow recovery likely (imo) caused the bow to dive straight to the bottom. I think it came as a shock and in an instant.
That's basically been my opinion for years now. Big rogue waves, water ingress, and then just plowing into the trough of the next big wave and never popping back up. It makes sense because the ship is broken in two, which likely happened when she finally hit bottom being that she was longer than the water depth.
I agree. Why was this not mentioned?
bottomed out on 6 fathom shoal...thats the cause of it sinking
@@446hemi about a minute after fitz left Anderson's radar, three massive rouge waves rolled over Anderson. she likely bottomed out and rode lower and lower and the rouge waves sealed her fate.
If I recall correctly, the Anderson reported that 2 rogue waves had just hit her and were heading to the Fitz at 6:46pm, with possibly a 3rd wave. Again, if I’m remembering correctly the Anderson reported that the 2 waves that’d hit her were 30 and 35 feet.
I’d also think it likely that a rogue wave or waves knocked out the Fitz’s radar
One of my next door Neighbors husbands friend was the second Stewart for the Fitzgerald when she went down on that fateful day, his name was Allen G. Kalmon, the Fitzgerald has always fascinated me especially as somebody who has lived by the Great Lakes all my life. I may not be a Michigander or Minnesotan since I live in Wisconsin, but I’ve gone to superior since I was little and the Fitzgerald will always be a topic of great interest, especially since it was made in Wisconsin.
As someone living in Michigan, thank you for highlighting a piece of Great Lakes history
Hello fellow michigander
Greetings fellow Michiganders
My grandfather drove a tanker truck on the north shore of Lake Superior. Fitzgerald didn’t start running on fuel oil, but it was converted later in its career. My grandpa often had to delay dinner because “The Fitz was in” and he had to fill it with fuel oil.
They lived on the lake and my grandmother described the night with “like the devil himself was outside”.
My mom had a school classmate whose father went down on it.
Great video. Anyone who's never heard, should listen to 'The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald' by Gordon Lightfoot. Amazing song. RIP to the crew of a beautiful ship.
I think that the Gordon Lightfoot's song is why the the Fitz is still widely remembered to this day.
The El Faro sank 2015 and it's not as widely remembered. Maybe Gordon can write another song...
The Punch Brothers did a cover of that song recently. It’s haunting, possibly better than the original.
@@mxg75 it no where near as good as the original. I have no clue why people like that version so much. It's good but besides the instruments. It's nothing really special that would last the test of time like Gordon Lightfoot song
No, they shouldn't. That song is worse than stabbing an ice pick in your ears.
@@MC-810 Don't encourage hime.
You failed to mention the most obvious possibility. The wind and waves were being driven by the high northwest winds which meant that the Fitz was taking waves up the stern. As those massive rogue waves hit, the stern would raise first, driving the Fitz's bow underwater. The theory is that one of those waves was so large that it lifted the stern high enough and drove the Fitz's bow under and she struck bottom, the sheer weight of the load of Taconite ore (pronounced Takonite) basically overloaded and blew the ship in half by the sheer weight of the shifting load. As the bow struck bottom, the sheer inertia of the shifting load broke the ship in half when the bow hit bottom. The stern was rolled inverted by the torque from the still running engines.
That would certainly explain how suddenly the ship disappeared, but wouldn’t significant damage to the bow section be more apparent?
@@brianbudney9117The bow is pretty beat up, actually. I don’t know if it’s consistent with a sudden 500+ foot plunge, but just about everything is tweaked.
I've followed this story for 49 years now. I grew up on the Lakes, so was very interested in the Lakers. I agree with the idea that the most likely cause was one or more significant following waves. The Anderson, approximately 10 miles behind, reported these two very large waves pushing her own bow under around 1830 hours. So, the timing would be about right for these two waves to catch up with the Fitzgerald. I believe that she was taking on water for hours, due to either loose hatchcovers, and/ or missing deck vents. This is possible because when fully loaded, the freeboard of this vessel was pretty low, maybe 10 feet or a bit higher. But low enough, at any rate, to allow tons of water to wash over the deck for long periods of time. So, in summary, she was already slowly sinking, and these large following waves just finished the job in seconds. We know it was immediate because of the lack of any radio or distress call.
I was actually honored to meet Edmund Fitzgerald back in the 1980s at the re-opening of the Union Terminal in Cincinnati Ohio.
The Edmund Fitzgerald had accommodations for 36 crew and 4 passengers at the forward and aft ends of the ship on the upper and main decks.
McSorley's rooms were on the upper deck just under the bridge. He had a private cabin with his own bathroom plus an office and lounge overlooking the main deck. There were also two double cabins for private guests, each with a private bathroom.
Below on the main deck there were 6 more cabins for the deck crew, 3 on each side and each with private bathrooms for the bridge crew. The 3 starboard cabins were singles for the officers, while the 3 port cabins were double cabins for the 3 wheelsmen and 3 watchmen. In between was a rec room.
Moving aft, on the upper deck there were 3 dining rooms, each for officers, crew and guests as well as the galley. There were also 4 cabins. The shipkeeper had a single cabin, while the cook, 2 waiters and 3 stewards shared the other 3 double cabins.
On the main deck were 12 more cabins. 5 were private cabins for the lead engineers. The other 7 double cabins berthed 5 seamen, 3 firemen, 3 coalpassers and 3 oilers.
You sound very familiar with that ship
@@EdA-qh7qr I found the deck plans for the ship and I saw how the ship was planned to function. I was surprised to see some of the crew even had their own private bathrooms.
I feel like some gentle Canadian should write a ballad about this event. Could be a winner.
Someone who's foot's not too heavy
@@Utuber-x44 kinda late but a great cover song for that would be a canadian rock band with a lead singer that also stars in tv shows!
@@Utuber-x44 I feel like your reply won't be understood by many.
It sounds like you just mean that it should not be some heavy metal musician (haha, heavy metal, iron ore...)
So I'll spell it out :D you meant Mr. Gordon Lightfoot who already made the song The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald
I could be wrong, but I believe a heard on a podcast that the railing that had broken isn't solid the way it was in this animation. It's actually long steel cable and the 'hogging' caused it to exceed its length and snap.
I was born and raised near the huron coast in Michigan. Its fun to show someone from a different state or country a great lake. They never get over not being able to see the other side because of the earths curvature. The shear size only then starts to sink in.
A truly sad tragedy, the lake takes without a trace. However because of this tragedy we have one of the greatest folk songs ever wrote.
Thanks!
I can only imagine how scary it would be to watch your ship plough so hard and so deep into the water that it touches the bottom…
But I looked it up and it was 530 feet deep so how could it have touched the bottom then?
Its way too fuckin deep to it to touch bottom. Wake the hell up🤣
@TrickedZap she was just shy of 730ft long. The rear 200ft of her wouldve still been above water when the bow struck bottom
Not long enough for any crew in the rear to have a chance, but maybe just long enough to know they were doomed
@@callsignapollo_bullshit...That would make sense if it touched ground flat...
@@callsignapollo_ "she was just shy of 730ft long. The rear 200ft of her wouldve still been above water when the bow struck bottom" Sure, IF she was perfectly *vertical* when this happened. 90 degrees angle. In what universe would she suddenly go straight down like a spike??
Because even if you use a highly unusual and improbable 45 degrees angle then she'd have to be *750ft* long and that's counting the stern being barely above water.
The pythagorean theorem is highly useful. Some seem to have forgotten about it once they left school.
Ships having their backs snapped is nothing new or unusual. Especially if the ship carries a heavy load and hasn't been properly maintained.
I'd say the Edmund Fitzgerald buckled immensely under the high waves. The rear bulkhead simply gave away when the bow and stern were lifted, while the middle part sagged down from an insane load. *Snap* Game over.
The story I read about the Three Sisters is that after they rolled up the stern of the AA Captain Cooper got on the radio and warned Captain McSorley that they were coming.
Cooper's radar was periodically losing contact with the EF due to the weather, but the EF went down in the time it took for the radar to make one revolution.
They might have split up or they might have capsized
They may have broke deep and took water
And all that remains is the faces and the names
Of the wives and the sons and the daughters
I like the "twist/flex" theory, that the hull could just not take anymore flexing and broke apart. The FItz was the biggest for her time. The longer you make a stick the easier it is to snap it in two, coupled with the larger waves she was ridding. It makes a lot of sense
I suggested this almost 2 years ago. Thank you for finally making this video; I understand you may not have seen my comments, but as a lake-state resident, this means a lot to me. Probably means a lot to the families as well.
My personal theory for this wreck stems from the fact that it was so...abrupt. They had no time to jump out or to get to the lifeboats. Taking into account the fact that the wreck is sitting at a depth of 530 feet, which is shallower than she was long, I think that one of the rouge waves came over the bow and forced the bow down. Bow hits the floor of the lake, causes the stern to torque off, accounting for how it's split up. This also gives account for how quick it was, and how no distress call was given. *shrug* This is just my opinion through.
agree...but what was the beginning of the end was it hit 6 fathom shoal at caribou island around 310..315 pm
The main theory has it that she grounded at 6 fathom shoal... that's why she was taking water. The more likely cause of the sinking was not that she was taking huge waves over the bow, but that the waves were rolling up the stern, forcing the stern up and forcing the bow underwater. A big enough wave would force the bow under and the weight of the ship would drive her into the bottom. The shifting weight of the 26,000 tons of taconite ore basically blew the ship in half when the bow crashed into the bottom.
The legend lives on from the Chippewa on down
Of the big lake they called Gitche Gumee
The lake, it is said, never gives up her dead
When the skies of November turn gloomy
With a load of iron ore twenty-six thousand tons more
Than the Edmund Fitzgerald weighed empty
That good ship and true was a bone to be chewed
When the gales of November came early
The ship was the pride of the American side
Coming back from some mill in Wisconsin
As the big freighters go, it was bigger than most
With a crew and good captain well seasoned
Concluding some terms with a couple of steel firms
When they left fully loaded for Cleveland
And later that night when the ship's bell rang
Could it be the north wind they'd been feelin'?
The wind in the wires made a tattle-tale sound
And a wave broke over the railing
And every man knew, as the captain did too
T'was the witch of November come stealin'
The dawn came late and the breakfast had to wait
When the gales of November came slashin'
When afternoon came it was freezin' rain
In the face of a hurricane west wind
When suppertime came, the old cook came on deck sayin'
"Fellas, it's too rough to feed ya"
At seven PM, a main hatchway caved in, he said
"Fellas, it's been good to know ya"
The captain wired in he had water comin' in
And the good ship and crew was in peril
And later that night when his lights went outta sight
Came the wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald
Does any one know where the love of God goes
When the waves turn the minutes to hours?
The searchers all say they'd have made Whitefish Bay
If they'd put fifteen more miles behind her
They might have split up or they might have capsized
They may have broke deep and took water
And all that remains is the faces and the names
Of the wives and the sons and the daughters
Lake Huron rolls, Superior sings
In the rooms of her ice-water mansion
Old Michigan steams like a young man's dreams
The islands and bays are for sportsmen
And farther below Lake Ontario
Takes in what Lake Erie can send her
And the iron boats go as the mariners all know
With the gales of November remembered
In a musty old hall in Detroit they prayed
In the maritime sailors' cathedral
The church bell chimed 'til it rang twenty-nine times
For each man on the Edmund Fitzgerald
The legend lives on from the Chippewa on down
Of the big lake they called Gitche Gumee
Superior, they said, never gives up her dead
When the gales of November come early-some Canadian legend
Rest in peace Gordon Lightfoot
I think you're pretty much spot on, the Anderson mentioned being concerned that those 3 Waves may have cought up to her. And in a following see with the bow riding low and listing that's dangerous enough, then while trying to navigate All of that it's possible a rouge wave caused by shoreline rebound pushed the bow down even more. If you've seen pictures you'll notice the visor on the pilot house bent down and I believe that can only happen with a wave breaking over it.
I had a 24 feet long by 16.5 inches wide kayak. I had it out on Lake Ontario not to far from shore ie. less than a quarter of a mile. Just for fun as an experiment I allowed a fair bit of water to come into the boat. When paddling into a wave it was very difficult to get the bow to come back up again and to make that a bit easier I had to bend my back rearwards and lay almost flat along the rear deck.
Being that the Fitz's captain had radioed in that the had water coming in, and that the sinking was very sudden (or the radio gear was no longer capable of sending) I too think that the Fitz nosedived into a large wave and then was driven under by a large or series of large waves from astern.
Babe wake up, new Casual Navigation video just hit!
Sailors had commented that after her load line was increased, that instead of shedding water quickly (like she had done since she was built) the Fitz struggled as water slowly left her main deck.
Also, it is possible, that even though she cleared 6 fathom shoals, the wave action could have caused her to "hog". (Similar wave action sank the Moran)
So, a weaken hull, from the hog, followed by the 3 sisters that hit the Anderson which was behind the Fitz, probably sank her, especially if one of the waves was amidships and another wave shoved her stern up..... Her stern is upside down on the bottom so obviously it came loose about the same time as the bow slammed into the bottom.
One of the debates about her sinking is exactly when the aft quarter to a third of the ship broke off. Part of the problem is that the section we need to see suffered a catastrophic failure, and is now sheets of metal under several 1,000s tons ore!
Something I’ve recently learned about is a phenomenon called liquefaction that will occur in certain types of cargo. Certain dry and even metals will have a condition where the liquid will shake it and cause it to change from a solid mass capable of being walked upon to a suspension that would allow a person to sink into it. As it does it allows the whole mass to readily shift in the hold. If the vents were dislodged by waves flowing along the deck then with enough water intrusion some of the forward holds could have allowed the ore to shift forward enough to prevent recovery. I don’t believe it broke up until the bow struck the bottom since the ship was longer than the water was deep. Because of this the engine would cause the propeller to constantly drive the bow into the bottom. Once it struck hard it would have buckled the hull and once the stern broke completely the torque would have caused the stern to capsize. I base this on pictures taken of the bow where the steel was buckled outward above the trough it created. Since the hull was steeply inclined all of the cargo was shifted forward causing all the weight to blow the plates outward between the ribs forward. Liquefaction explains the nose dive, and the bow hitting the bottom explains the breakup. With this theory it simplifies the combination of events needed to lose buoyancy. I also hadn’t heard of vents instead of hatch covers opening up along with lowering in the water. Reduced freeboard increases the risk of mishaps. Altering a ship’s design usually doesn’t have a good outcome.
A lot of people underestimate the sheer power these lakes have, the waves the unpredictable weather, so on and so forth. Waves that flow in the lakes (or also known as inland seas) are practically none stop. These lakes have an average of 80-100 drownings a year. They are monstrous and not to be underestimated. As a wise singer Stan Rogers once said "they're almost enchanted"
In rougher conditions with shorter wave periods (around 3 seconds) with a rough estimate, you could experience up to 20 waves per minute or 300 waves every 15 minutes.
Rest in peace, Gordon Lightfoot! Your song will live on in Minnesota!
I’ve seen what superior is like during a heavy gale and it’s no playground, these are rough fast moving rouge waves. Considering no radio distress signal was sent. It was quick and catastrophic and the fitz was swamped by a rogue wave and took a nose dive, before the force of the waves at the stern literally snapped it in half like a piece of celery
Even though "lakers" such as the Fitz have had careers that have lasted over half a century (the Arthur M. Anderson is still working), a large part of that longevity is based on how well the ship is taken care of. The Fitz was pushed hard throughout her time in service--breaking her own records for individual loads carried, and loads carried in a season--and had more than her fair share of hard hits with piers, and the walls of the locks. You can only push things--and people--so hard for so long, before they fail.
I tend not to believe the idea that some of the clamps were insecure. No sailor on the Great Lakes would be caught dead leaving a clamp insecure in November.
Cookie knew what happened
At seven PM, a main hatchway caved in, he said
"Fellas, it's been good to know ya"
We visited Sault Saint Marie, MI last summer and saw the Edmund Fitzgerald's two lifeboats on display. I hardly ever hear them mentioned. With modern forensics I would imagine they contain clues. One was literally sheared in half! They were badly mangled.
ripped free from their davits most likely. no bodies were recovered on the surface which is unusual if they had made an attempt to launch the lifeboats.
The poor little things 😢 😭 the lifeboats didn't deserve that fate rip in boat heaven
You should cover another Great Lakes ship that suffered a similar fate called the SS Daniel J Morrell that broke in half just a few years prior in 1966 the sinking was gathered in great detail by the only survivor accounting what he saw saying that when the ship broke up he and three others jumped on a raft and the bow sunk but the stern actually kept sailing about 5 miles past the bow before sinking it would be absolutely horrific to see the back half of your ship sail off into the stormy night with all the lighting still on
the fitz didnt break in half on the surface
@@446hemi dude I wasn’t talking about the fitz and besides both the morell and fitz broke in half now not exactly the same way but they did break in two the similarities arise from that they both split in two not how they did
Maritime Horrors covered this and according to former crew testimony and previous CG inspections, she wasn't in the best shape by the time she went down. Although she's only one of many bulk carriers that have broken in half on the Great Lakes. Being long and skinny while carrying such heavy cargo in such rough waters seems to have that effect.
I was in the merchant navy for twenty years and always feel for the lost crews and their families when I read these accounts. It's even worse when the actual cause has never been determined as it means there could be other crews in danger of meeting the same fate.
I remember that storm. I was at, a lake front cottage, in Tobermory Ontario at the time. Even though Lake Superior was 200 kilometres north west of were I was, the storm very severe with extremely high winds and heavy rain. The next day we heard on the radio that the Edmund Fitzgerald sank. It was such a bad storm were I was, I can't imagine how bad it was on the lake.
Grew up in Wisconsin. We were always told the rogue wave is what did her in. 70+ foot wave hit her head on and it basically was suspended between the swells (backside of the wave and the secondary smaller wave) after making it through the wave. Basically she got suspended in a "U" with the center of the ship being suspended with no support causing it to snap.
if you look at the wreck and how close the bow and stern are as well as a portion of the spar deck missing, and the fact no distress call was sent and that she vanished so quickly, it is nearly impossible that she broke up on the surface
My brother in law was also out the same night and 14 miles behind Edmund Fitzgerald the night she went down. He was on the bridge when he said the ship disappeared from the radar.
I am originally from Newfoundland, and I also had a friend who worked on fishing trawlers in the Atlantic, and he had worked on Lakers on Lake Superior! He told me that he had been in Atlantic storms that never bothered him. But he also told me that there were nights on Superior that he thought that he would not see the morning light... the waves were that bad! His conclusion was that because its an inland sea, the waves have nowhere to go except back into the lake, unlike in the North Atlantic ocean and it makes them much more intense!
I adore this channel. I even find the way he manages to mispronounce nearly every US place name utterly charming^^
A fact I haven't seen mentioned in the prior comments (granted I might've missed it): the Edmund Fitzgerald was one of the first Great Lakes freighters to have a welded hull instead of a riveted one. Riveted hulls can flex more in rough seas whereas welded hulls are more apt to snap. I've read that the Fitz was due to have repairs made to its hull before the sailing season; but, they were postponed because there were plans to lengthen it during that winter's layup ('75-'76). Interestingly; the Edmund Fitzgerald had a sister ship, the SS Arthur B. Homer, that was built the same way, with welds instead of rivets. It actually was lengthened that winter, which was not a cheap thing to do, but then was suddenly retired only five years later and scrapped sometime in the '80s. For comparison; the Arthur M. Anderson, the ship that was selling with the Fitz the night it sank, was six years older at the time of the incident, yet is still in service today.
Several lengthened freighters have snapped in half at sea, it seems that inadequate stringers were installed.
I believe that the ship cargo holds not being completely filled, because of the high specific weight of the iron ore, allowed the cargo to roll over one side - while the ship herself was rolled by the waves. And the ship laying on one side caused it to sink.
Whatever the cause, it is a sad story of bad luck.
Thank you for telling.
Regards,
Anthony
Or, since there were no real bulkheads dividing the main cargo hold (as in just 1), it is possible that the 3 sisters caused the ore to shift forward and cause the plunge....
@@timengineman2nd714 the fitz three holds, thus 4 bulkheads one on each end and two splitting the holds. the arthur m anderson however has 5 holds thus 6 bulkheads (one on each end and 4 in between).
the Fitz's bulkheads were not water tight though...
@@signolias100 Also, from what I understand, they were more of a divider than a true bulkhead able to withstand shifting cargo.
@@timengineman2nd714 they were suppose to be true non water tight bulkheads. That is not to say the two bulkheads at the ends of the cargo area weren't water tight per the blueprints. From how I understand it though the two dividing bulkheads were not water tight. None of them were on those ore haulers at the time.
The biggest issue is that the holds were massive . The Fitz was much larger than the Anderson, but had less holds than the Anderson .
Another thing I am unsure of is could the ore the was carrying undergo a phenomenon called liquefaction? This is a dangerous situation in bauxite haulers.
@@signolias100 From my understanding (reading various articles) the ore could soak up water (it was iron so basically turning into rust) but I don't think it could liquify.
However, it could shift and take out what some called dividers (i.e. the intermediary non-watertight bulkheads) and shift forward preventing the Fitz from recovering from her bow being shoved under, and then her hitting bottom while her stern was in the air (lifted out of the water by the wave).
Also, she could have hogged without hitting at 6 fathom shoals!
There's a video about the SS Moran (I don't remember the spelling of that ship's name) where she was hit with a wave that basically lifted her midships and left both the bow and the stern in too little water (due to troughs) to support them. Then as the waves moved forward (the were coming from astern like what happened to the Fitz when she sank) 2 waves supported Moran (Morran?) bow and stern but basically left her midships unsupported. She too sank in a bad storm....
My third grade teachers dad helped look for the Edmund Fitzgerald that night. I remember he came into our class to tell us about it. I don’t remember too much but it was one of the most interesting story I’ve ever heard. Rip to all 29 on board
I grew up in that area an watching the storms come in across Lake Superior. They were terrifying and exciting and if Ihad not seen them with my own eyes, I would never believe that such a force was possible from a lake. As an adult I have seen 2 hurricanes, one in Florida and one Mississippi, and I spent time in the North Sea duiring winter. Nothing compared to the ferocity of the waves during Lake Superior storms. They need to be witnessed to be believed.
I believe after observing pictures of the wreck. Visor over wheelhouse smashed down...forecastle covered ( full) with silt. Bow was driven into the bottom breaking in two. If it broke on surface stern would be further away.
True. Ships that break on the surface tend to have their halves each float by themselves for a bit. They drift apart.
The bow hit the bottom with such force that it created an underwater hill.
The bow section of the wreck is also pointed on a heading of 125 degrees, which is very close to the heading the ship was on to reach Whitefish Bay. I firmly believe the ship bottomed on 6 Fathom Shoals, began taking in water, and foundered by nosediving into the lakebed and breaking apart. Just like Bernie Cooper thought.
Woke up to see this video posted and was NOT disappointed. Great video
The bridge has implosion damage. Meaning it was not flooded beforehand. The cargo hold hatches weren't secured and water entered the hold. The ship lost buoyancy, and a big wave put her bow under and the engine in the rear drove her right to the bottoms hard and fast the bridge imploded, and no one ever called for help. She went to the bottom like a torpedo
Super cool to have you cover a ship I've heard so much about and is local
Apparently she had a sister ship, ARTHUR B. HOMER. It would have been interesting to see if there were any problems with her. I assume someone did a study. I often think how three of the four navy collier's PROTEUS class ships mysteriously disappeared and the fourth one was converted to the first US aircraft carrier and was scuttled by her crew. There was likely a fatal design error or a free surface problem in that class.
You make SUCH high quality content. Great jobs and thank you, keep it up!
You showed the correct wave and wind direction. However right after when talking about the Three Sisters, the three big waves that nearly caused the Arther M Anderson to broach and capsize, you show them hitting from the bow when they were from the stern. It must also be mentioned that while the Big Rollers where from the stern the echo effect of the lakes confined space was making for a confused Sea effect with some waves coming from the south and some from the East. Three captains including the skipper of the Aurther M Anderson, as well as some top navel Salvage experts all said that the only thing that would account for Nun of the crew even getting off the ship and how fast it sank was that the three big rouges hit her One lifting her stern shifting the already heave bow lode and then the second pushed her bow under, allowing the smaller but still large confused waves to pile on to her already diving bow, then the third caused the ship to plunge or Submarine and as she did the stern would have twisted and separated from the stress as it lifted. Her Crew would have never had a chance to get out and the entire ship would have been under water in the three minutes needed to explain why Auther M Anderson who passed over the exact spot not five minutes later seen no sign of her. As someone who has worked the rough seas of the Baring Sea for most of my life, I know how ships react to a fallowing sea. Only this explains how they would have been caught so unprepared and would not have sent off some message or had time to get over the side. Might I suggest you have a listen to this as well, It's the radio traffic from that night after the Anderson reported her missing. Its eerily haunting. ruclips.net/video/W1fOWi0teiY/видео.html
I have a picture hanging up of the Carl D Bradley, which was also found split in two. That’s another interesting story, because there was a huge court case over weather the sinking was an Act of God or not, with the company that owned the vessel trying to claim that it was so they wouldn’t have to compensate family members of the victims, but they eventually settled with the families
the bradley was in extremely bad shape though and shouldn't have deviated course to try to do another run. had the bradley continued on with it's normal plans there is a chance the bradley wouldn't have sunk.
The owners of these boats often abuse them and don’t do repairs as they should due to profit margins. Money before safety
@@tgland02494 I am pretty sure that has changed. For example the Arthur M. Anderson which was built in 1952 is still in service. This makes her 71 years old. Your statement was true in the past, but today's standards makes neglecting the great lakes freighters a risky proposition.
@@tgland02494 it also could get the boats killed
I have always been interested in the different ways Fitz could have sank none theory is exactly as shown, that the bow could have impacted the bottom while the stern was still on the surface. Thanks for the example showing exactly this
I'll always pay my Respect's to the Men that lost their lives Nov. 10th 1975..
And Thank Gordon Lightfoot for the beautiful folk song that tells the story of it all, since Mr. Lightfoot setup the royalties/proceedings go to the surviving family members of the (29 fallen Men) which is amazing.
Godspeed to you All, on your Journey. 💙
Something I feel should be mentioned is that there is around 100ft of the spar deck that is nothing more then twisted metal on the lakebed. The prevailing theory is when the Fitzgerald hit the lakebed the forward momentum the direction of travel, currents, overall weight and perhaps the ships engine still running caused the bow to hit bedrock and because bedrock is immovable the forward momentum caused the ship to suffer an accordion effect, literally the stern pushing against the bow with such force it obliterated most of the middle of the ship and spun off hence why the stern is split from the bow and capsized
All I know is, I couldn't possibly imagine what it must've been like to be on that ship, being above water, then within a second immediately being under and not coming back up. 😱
Taconite is pronounced with a hard "C" like a "K" not the soft "C".
Taconite pellets is very fine iron ore that is pressed into a pellet shape about the size of a lead ball from a musket.
One other thing about ships on the great lakes. They are not required to have the cargo area bulkheads to be watertight like ocean going ships. This means water entering one hold can freely flow throughout all holds.
You had more information and better information on the Edmund Fitzgerald than many videos three times as log.
I also liked the animation.
Good job!
I'm subscribing & watching some of your other videos.
I'm looking forward to the Derbyshire video. It sank the year I entered the navy.
My dad was stationed on the USCG Woodrush when they went out after the Fitzgerald and he at minimum followed the investigation, he said that the bow of the Fitzgerald was driven 28 feet into the mud. I can’t remember if he thought the Three Sisters waves was possibly the best theory to explain it diving into the mud.
He would have been under the command of Capt Hobaugh, who gave a perfect description of the conditions during the search. Ive personally seen the WR many times on vacations to Mackinac. Ive never been able to imagine that boat doing a roll to 50 degrees on the day they were searching for Fitz survivors.
@@CrewGuyPJ Yeah, my dad had said the conditions were really bad on the lake. I have seen the lake with what I thought was bad conditions but it probably didn't come close to that storm.
If you look at the under water images of the ship. .. especially the video of a diver retrieving the bell... The bow and pilot house have crush points like a beer-can being pushed together (top and bottom and the middle crushing inward). All the windows appear to have been blown out, door is missing. I have come to believe the ship did take on water, began to ride low, until the she dove in-between two waves, her stern ride high...the weight of iron ore and water shifting, drover her bow first the lake bottom. All the force, crushed the bow, and snapped the ship in half. They found some life rafts... one split in half the others bow is crushed, like the Fitz itself. If you have never been on the Great Lakes, when a storm whips up... it's freakish... and the lakes are NOT forgiving. The mentions of three sisters isn't just three waves...its three cross-chop waves. When the lakes get all riled up, they waves cross each other at there worst, they meet in the middle for a triple stack, each bring its own power, when they hit...its a wall of water is dense... even 4 -6 footers hitting will plow you down and into the lake bottom...
Maybe I didn't hear you mentioned it but one possibility would be that the cargo shifted too much, especially since the ship reported a list.
I thought that after they found her they discovered that she hadn’t broken in two but foundered and took on water. And even Gordon Lightfoot regretted the “Main hatchway gave in” line because it is still intact, proving that the crew had not failed to secure it.
But two hatches WERE found to be punched inside the hold.
It’s crazy how violent the waves can get on these lakes.
Superior, they said, never gives up her dead
When the gales of November come early.
Another theory is because of the wind and waves coming at the boat from behind the 3 sisters waves you were talking about came up on the boat from behind and while the front end sank on the backside of one wave the back end was raised up by the other and it was speared into the oceans bottom. With the damage to the front end of the boat that can be seen in photos taken on the bottom it is very possible.
@Casual Navigation I have always been a fan of your vids, can you please share which Programme you use to produce your animations? Thank you
The captain of the Anderson recorded at 630pm that night of the possibility of "three sisters" it's a set of 3 waves back to back. Normally a single rogue wave wouldn't pose a serious risk seeing as the Anderson went through it. But Edmund already had 2 dire issues, listing and water already on deck.
When three sisters hit, the first wave hits and puts water on your deck, but doesn't allow the water to disappate quickly as the second and third waves hit in quick succession. With her already at slow speed I'd imagine the waves hit that much harder.
Considering that there was possible 80+mph gusts, there was no way Edmund would've been able to limp back to Whitefish Bay for relative safety.
The reason why no survivors are ever recovered is because of the temperature of the water. The water is so cold year round that bacteria literally can't grow to cause bloat. I think year round it generally stays at 36degrees at the fathom depth Edmund sank at. Especially during November the upper and lower waters mix perfectly that it all becomes 36 degrees.
The legend lives on from the Chippewa on down...
I've researched the Edmund Fitzgerald for many years, and to this day I believe that the Edmund Fitzgerald was struck by a rogue wave because when I look at the wreck, I see damage from waves from the storm. I know what it's like to be in a huge storm. I grew up living next to the ocean here in Alaska and I've been in a storm. The storm I was in happened in 2007 and I was only 16 years old at the time. My dad and I went camping with some friends of ours behind some islands in Alaska known as the Chiswell Islands. At the time we were using my dad's landing craft her name was Janet May. A day after we left port a radio report came in about a huge storm in our path. We were looking at 16-foot to 25-foot-tall waves with hurricane-force winds up to 72 mph. it was a really bad storm. So, my dad had a choice to make either way hang out there for a few days till it calms down or I would say the heck with it and drive right through it. And of course, my dad chose to drive right through the storm, and by a miracle, we made it home. We did lose the radio antenna, but it was all worth it to get back home. The reason why my dad wanted to drive right through the storm is because at the time we had 200 pounds of fish on board. We didn't want it to let it spoil and feed to the birds. We wanted to go back home and make a bunch of good meals out of it.
I had a friend who was part of the SAR, and looked for her. I remember the news coverage about her loss.
I was so happy when I went to Duluth to learn about the EDMUND FITZGERALD
Hey I love your videos and here’s another great one, but I do have some tiny complaints, over in the Great Lakes area we call it “tack”a night and Michigan sounds like MISH again thanks so much keep up the great work
They tried to squeeze in one last trip instead of tying up to the dock for the winter as normal.
Nobody got paid unless they made a trip.
Also the ship was getting old. Old worn ships can be dangerous.
Also had extra large holds. Some structure was eliminated for larger holds. Less structure (bulkheads) made the ship more flexible and less strong.
Amazing how even lakes that are a fraction of the size of the mighty oceans can drag huge vessels to their graves god rests the souls of the Edmund Fitzgeralds crew,good thing the Author M Anderson is still in service
BTW great artwork
Having spent much time on and around Lake Superior, I can tell you these are not simple lakes. They have tides because of differences in air pressure on either side of the lake. The waves can be massive. The fact that it is fresh water means it is also less buoyant. There is a theme that being a sailor on the great lakes can be a much more harrowing time compared to their seaborne brothers.
Having grown up in the St. Lawrence valley, i have no doubt that these lakes are every bit as powerful as the ocean.
Even tiny lakes like Cranberry lake (about 5sqmi) can produce 3ft waves with whitecaps (rolling) on a windy day making it unsafe (at least very unpleasant) to be on in a boat sized for the lake.
The St. Lawrence river itself is about as wide as a typical lake except its very straight and generally aligned with the prevailing winds, it has a swift current and the combined wakes of various small boats and the cargo ships can make it quite choppy even on a good day. During a storm it can definitely make some nasty waves. (Although a cargo ship would probably be more scared of all the rocks & wrecks and getting pushed out of the channel and grounding in a storm more than the waves on the river.
The great lakes themselves are 1000% terrifying in a storm, very deep, very cold, and larger than some states so the wind has lots of space to build up big waves and windspeed. Plus Erie and Ontario are aligned to the prevailing winds which means in the late fall & winter they just constantly dump lake effext snow on the Buffalo and Watertown areas respectively. (And lake effect always starts falling over the lake and contiues onto shore, and anyone who has driven in lake effect can tell you it drops visibility to 0 so its probably worse than fog for a ship to be caught in.
And as i final note, flooding and storms can drag all sorts of crap out i to the lakes like trees and docks, i don't know how bad it is for a cargoship to hit a dock but one will certainly ruin your 18ft fiberglass pleasure boat.
The lakes are amazing but they are more akin to freshwater inland seas than what normal people consider a lake. (They are basically the Med but colder and drinkable)
I was raised in south Texas very close to the Gulf of Mexico and haven't even experienced a lake bigger than a football field so I suppose if I ever do travel to a great lake I best take your advice
They aren't lakes. They're inland seas. They were just poorly named.
@suzannee6673 maybe they should be called inland seas cause when you hear a lake swallowed a ship as big as the Fitz you get a more confusing picture when you don't know the actual story
I remember that night vividly. I was going to college in Sault Ste Marie, Ontario. My girlfriend and I caught the bus which took us into the down town area. As it drove along, the wind was breaking windows along the street. The few people that had to walk anywhere were leaning forward as much as possible in order to not get blown off their feet. Changing buses, we really felt it, the terminal was pretty tiny and there were hordes of people. When the bus got to our street, the driver actually stopped outside our front door as my girlfriend was still kinda wobbly after an accident a couple weeks before. I miss that town, and the friendly people there. RIP to the crew of the Edmond Fitzgerald.
I think this particular type of storm is called a Nor'Easter. For those of us on land, it means a lot of wind, snow, and rain. They can be downright deadly if you're sailing on the lakes.
Novmber witch
It was actually a Panhandle Hook, Nor'Easters happen along the east coast and track from the Gulf to Newfoundland, Panhandle Hooks are powerful winter storms that spawn from a cold air disturbance from the Rockies that spins up into a cyclone along the dry line in the Texas/Oklahoma panhandle region (hence the name) fueled by warm moist air from the Gulf and then tracks into the Great Lakes region where it sometimes bombs out after crossing the lakes, and that is exactly what the storm of 1975 did.
The storm that brought down the Fitz also caused a nasty blizzard in Wisconsin and Michigan and a tornado outbreak from Iowa to Indiana.
I was in Duluth playing hockey that day. That storm was ugly. I have seen storms on Lake Superior in the winter pole ice on the shore 2-3 stories high. Great Lake storms are nothing to mess with. And what makes it hard on superior is it’s shape west to east. Where Lake Michigan goes north to south being narrow. Though all the lakes have taken many lives in storms. If that storm happened today they would blame climate change.😅
@YTCensors Tglander isn't wrong though. Every nasty weather event now you have politicians blaming "climate change". I just heard some nut testifying in MN legislation that because we have had a snowy winter that it's due to "climate change".
@YTCensors yeah sure whatever kiddo
Let me interrupt this solemn and serious video and talk about Manscape
Don't forget the moons in the ad forming a perfect cock and balls
😂
Capt McSorley reported he had lost his starboard railing to the Anderson , so the railing was an issue before She went down. That transmission was before the final " We`re holding our own" . As well, your pictograph shows more than 3 cargo holds. Although She had many hatches, She had 3 cargo holds, the Anderson had 5. She broke records for cargo time and again and was overloaded continuously to break those records. You also mentioned She may have broke in half, then sank..a similar wreck was the Daniel J Morrell. There was but 2 survivors . The Morrell broke in 2 , and as the life rafts were deployed, some swam and made it to the rafts. While on the rafts and the bow now almost completely under water, in all the commotion they saw another ship.. they waved their arms yelling. That other ship, was the stern section that had just enough of fore up angle to motor 5 miles away not before plowing into the bow section on it`s way . The Fitz on the other hand, shows the bow had hit the bottom, very hard leaving an imprint of several feet. Everyone has an opinion, none of us were there . With Capt McSorly reporting a loss of the starboard railing, the break up in all probability due to stress cracks - others that served on Her reported hearing groaning previous to the loss. The 3 sisters wave has credibility here in that the flashing above the wheelhouse is hammered down- so , yes, as you said She may have taken a hard hit on the bow, and wheelhouse wave 1, with Her bow down in a trough, the second larger wave 2 pressed on the stern while the bow was down further flexing midships , adding to a stress fracture , or flexing of the hull as She rose from the first wave and the stress of the 3rd wave encroached- by that time the taconite being like marbles had found it` way to both fore and aft, ultimately breaking Her to the point of almost in half- with taconite both fore and aft , that 3rd wave sent her hard to the bottom- the bow section implanted in several feet of seabed, the stern flipped upside down and not showing the same type of impact. Given 729 feet long and 540 feet of water yes She may have hit hard on the bow implanting in the lakebed , with stern still raised , causing the final break up with the stern finding it`s way upside down after the impact. The shroud above the wheelhouse may very well be the telltale that She took an extremely hard wave and was already stress fractured midship , had water in the cargo holds with taconite finding it`s way fore and aft further stress fracturing. We all have our theories. Let`s learn from each other and never forget the brave souls that were lost on that fateful evening. All opinions, theories and comments welcomed .