There is an interesting story about a famous senior Baptist pastor. The senior pastor fired an assistant pastor because he was getting divorced. The son of the senior pastor explained to his father that was not the pastor's fault. His wife was leaving him for another man and there was nothing he could do. The senior pastor didn't want to listen and fired the pastor anyway. A few years later the wife of the senior pastor left him and they got divorced. The son of the senior pastor went to his father and said " now you should resign, following your own standard". The senior pastor could care less, he kept his position and authority. It is just a bunch of hypocrisy out there. Sin is just what the other do. We pick the sins we want to accuse other people but we don't look at our own sins.
I left the Catholic church because i got divorce, my ex wife mistreated and abused me , in the end she asked for divorce and its was a very draining and contentious process. I reach the church for orientation and support , i was a leader in my church, Boys Scout troop , assistant in the sunday bible school, even went to a special seminary for parishioners one day , they remove me from all the leadership positions , they did not gave me a chance to explain , so i left the church and went to a Christian protestant church, i attended for 5 years , one day the pastor of that church asked to read the lectures of that sunday, i remember crying as i was reading the word of God that day , the parishioners thought it was the word of God that moved me to tears, maybe it was, but it was the memory of what I was doing in the Catholic Church I attended since childhood. I was offered the post of assistant pastor, and many people objected because I was not married, I explained, (at least they gave me that opportunity to defend myself), that I had already closed that chapter of my life because I married and divorced, Now they don't want me because I'm not married? I left that meeting very disturbed, very sad. I wondered if I really wanted to keep going to church. 2 weeks passed and then I received the news that they gave me the position. Bottom line, you will never be holy enough before humans.
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@@philipbuckley759 You've made countless assertions on this forum that cannot be supported by Scripture. I've even seen you distort verses in a manner worthy of a George Orwell novel. Give this man a break!
True. ✴ _A woman is bound to her husband as long as he lives. But if her husband dies, she is free to marry anyone she wishes...._ (1 Corinthians 7: 39; NIV)
@@IsaacNussbaum Covenant refers to the agreement made between God and man, i.e. Covenent Theology. It has moral stipulations attached to it. It basically says "I will be your God and you will be my people."
@@glenhowell6909 Thank you, Glen. (My real name is Glen, too.) I looked up Covenant theology (with and "a," by the way) and I couldn't make heads or tails of it. Help me understand how it applies to my 1 Cor. 7: 39 citation.
I’m a man who was in the same situation as the circumstances cited in this video. I was married at 18 as soon as I graduated boot camp in a civil ceremony by the local justice of the peace. It was before I was a believer. A few years and repeated significant adultery by my ex-wife later, we divorced. I later re-married and became a Christian. I’ve been in the faith for almost a decade now, I’ve been married for more than ten years to a wonderful Christian woman and we have a healthy and God centered marriage with three beautiful God fearing children. I was recently asked to take a minor leadership role in the church and I had serious trepidation about it. Ultimately, after prayer and contemplation, I concluded essentially what this man in the video argues. I welcome any criticism or disagreement though, and I understand that it comes from a place of genuine care for the well being of the church and society.
It is as if it your situation was used as an example at 04:57 where he considers a leadership role to be permissible. I agree with him and your admission of trepidation demonstrates that you do not take God and His written word lightly.
@@philipbuckley759 How has he been in adultery? I don't see that in the Bible myself, but that by Matthew 19 and 1 Corinthians 7, that man is no longer bound by any covenant to his former wife, because she broke that covenant in adultery, behaved like an unbeliever, and wanted to leave.
@@zacharienelsen7973 bad translations leads to bad teaching....try not under bondage or not enslaved....not anything akin to not bound....a term that the author had just used....
Before Christ is in death. InChrist is new life, washed by the blood of Christ. What and how it’s is done must be under God and through Gods Holy work. One marriage inChrist for sure and when there’s a death then can be married if (need) to be married. Other then that dedicate one’s life to Christ fully.
It is simy amazing that as a church our view towards marriage and divorce is such that we keep trying to find loopholes to say things are ok. Pretty soon we will be able to divorce for any and every reason. Oh wait.. we are there!!!
I think you completely missed the point of the video. He's not advocating divorce, but simply discussing whether or not divorce permanently disqualifies people from leadership. I agree that many do advocate for divorce, but you shouldn't make a blanket sweeping statement accusing most churches doing this. This is just being cynical for the point of cynicism and offers little to build up the body of Christ.
Exactly. How on earth is this guy or ANYONE ELSE for that matter blatantly disregarding Jesus' own words AND Paul's, written under the inspiration of the Spirit of Jesus??? "But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except on the ground of sexual immorality, makes her commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery (Matt 5:32, also Matt 19:9)." And Paul's 2nd witness, "To the married I give this command (NOT I, BUT THE LORD): A wife MUST NOT separate from her husband. But if she does, she MUST REMAIN UNMARRIED OR else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife. (1 Cor 7:10-11)." What am I missing from these two witnesses, BOTH from the Lord Jesus???
sgt muffin if the point was to discuss as you say it should have been a short video he should have just said yes you are disqualified if you have a second or third wife and your first wife is still living.
It's terrible to see a man that I know being denied even the option of ever being a Deacon because of what his ex wife did to him. He is a remarkable respectable faithful man and she cheated on him and left him for another woman's husband. So now the good guy is being, not just victim shamed, but victim punished.
JHL: Exactly my situation. People in church have encouraged me to be a deacon. Except 25+ years ago, my first wife left me for another guy. I have been happily remarried to a Christian woman for the past 22.5 yrs. People stumble, apologize and say, sorry, I didn't know that. There are some horrendous legalists commenting here, only wishing to throw more rocks at innocent, betrayed people May their reward suffer for their lack of compassion. This "no-exception" viewpoint has hurt so many people. This viewpoint came out of the Catholic Church and sadly, we still have some of the Inquisitors commenting on this video.
@@philipbuckley759 Except biblical widowhood and a different interpretation of that verse. Some interpret it to mean no polygamy, others interpret it as not throwing your current wife away just to get another... then another then another, and then there are others that think it means that if you marry a sinner and they sin against you then you should be punished until eternity as a second class church member.
He can still serve the Lord, just with out the title deacon. The Lord see’s the heart but people can’t. So just to maintain the reputation of the church he must step down, but that doesn’t mean he can not serve GOD, if he has the heart let him serve.
Divorce is still the unforgivable sin in some churches. What is a man to do with his gift of teaching/leadership/pastoring if his wife wants to leave him? Is he "done" as my brother told me I was, when I was divorced by my wife of 16 years who "had plans that did not include you "? The Gospel is all about reconciliation - which she rejected - and renewal, otherwise why do we teach it? She did not want me so I needed to find how I could use my gifts in serving the Lord. I was asked to serve as an elder for 10 years before I relented - I now serve and also am now also teaching adult Sunday school. I have been remarried for 17 years to a fine Christian woman and we work and serve the Lord - as a new family. One wife at a time. The other thought I have is some of those who have never been divorced seem to feel they have a superior standing with God - while their home life may be hell on earth, they still remain married. I think divorce might be better in some cases - even for Christians and have a n honest life instead of thinking they are fooling God and everyone else.
divorce is not unforgivable.....but in the adultery, of remarriage, to be forgiven one has to forsake the sin.....too often people want adultery to be changed to a valid covenant....by something called repentance.....
Well said. Nobody loves divorce. Nobody loves prisons, bank foreclosures, or the city dump either. But like divorce, these things exist for a very good reason. You'll get a lot of comments in videos such as this from those who advocate the position I call the "Marriage Permanence Heresy". They will often use Matt 19:6, Romans 7:2-3, Mark 10:5-12, and 1 Cor 7:10-11 to give the illusion of support for this destructive heresy. But none of these verses support their position. What they are doing is akin to using Luke 18:22 to argue that a rich man cannot be saved unless he forfeits his wealth. I've even heard people argue that it's a sin to listen to secular music or to drink alcohol, even in moderation. In all cases, these legalistic positions presume things in Scripture that are simply not so. Just so we are clear: the Marriage Permanence Heresy is NOT the goal or ideal that marriage be for life. Nor is it the rejection of divorce for frivolous reasons. This heresy is the claim that there is no divorce allowed or recognized by God even for compelling reasons (domestic violence, drug use, etc). Some extreme versions of this teaching hold that a remarried person is ineligible for salvation unless they divorce their current spouse! If this heresy isn't blasphemous and slanderous to God, then pray tell what is!?
Malachi 2:16, which states that God hates divorce. ... God hates divorce. Yes, he does, but read on and understand what is being said. The scripture goes on to say what God hates about divorce is the violent tearing of flesh that occurs when two people divorce. Never does he say he hates divorcees. That is the judgement of man. That follows suit with the flesh. So all these exceptions are bogus. Just read the scripture and the conversation is over.
Dr. Schreiner, I watch these helpful videos almost everyday. These wise teachings help me to examine scriptures more thoroughly than I would have without watching them. There are many times I tend to make hasty conclusions without seeing the overall scriptural teaching on the marriage. Thank you!
@@r0b0gam3r9 Divorse is seperation [ not good].The disaster comes in the re-marrriage because that is adultery. That is forgivable too but you cannot KEEP the object of your sin.[the unlawful spouse]that marriage IS NOT RECOGNIZED BY GOD. Herod was warned by John the Baptist but he would not hear him. He has been incarcerated in hell for 2000 years awaiting the GREAT WHITE THRONE JUDGEMENT. He should have listened to the Holy Spirit but he preferred listening to devils like many that read this looking for ways to continue in adultery.
I think it depends on the circumstances that led up to the divorce. If the wife cheated on her husband, then I wouldn’t disqualify him as a pastor. If the husband committed the adultery, then he is permanently disqualified from the pulpit, simply because it’s a trust issue Those are just a couple of examples that I can think of off the top of my head
It would certainly raise some questions. Divorce is almost always the fault of both sides. But one could argue that there are cases where a man does everything that can reasonably expected of him and his wife or his children choose to do things of their own free will that nothing he could have done would have prevented. In that case, his "management" might be fine and yet he is still divorced. Granted, that can only be true if one holds that there is such a thing as free will. If there isn't free will and God is the cause of all divorce, then we might be able to simplify it and say that divorce is a means by which God shows that a man is disqualified from being a pastor.
Stuff happens. You can manage a family well and still get a divorce. The passage is meaning the present, not the past. People wanna think in their own understanding and not realize we are in the age of grace.
@@TheChurchIsLikenUntoTheMoon I would love to hear. How does a man manage his family well ( The way God has directed) and still end up in divorce. So u are saying Gods word has error. I believe Gods word is perfect and if followed correctly from the beginning will lead a man without error. So if a man ends up in divorce it is because of his errors not Gods. And if he ends up in divorce it's his fault for deviating from the truth and not managing his house well. And if a man doesn't manage his family well he is not dammed to hell. He is saved by the grace of God like u said. But he is disqualified from serving as a pastor. A pastor MUST be without reproach. No EXCEPTION. Same as a drunk can't stand in the pulpit an preach to the congregation about not drinking. A pastor that has been divorced can't stand in the pulpit and preach a biblical sermon on marriage. And preach against divorce because he is no longer beyond reproach. This is my thoughts but my mind is open to a biblical argument. If u can change my mind using scripture mind mind is open.
no where.. these so called schollars are compromising Gods word.. this answer can be very simple and to the point. but becausr of these kinds of answrrs people who are church goers fillup their bellies with it .. and resort to their personal feelings..
Read 1st Corinth chapter 7...Yahshua also speaks to the Pharisee about divorce and adultery. There's no where I've seen the justifies a Pastor/Shepherds to divorce and remarry and remain in position(.)
Yea you cannot however there are other options such as separate however the wife cannot take a new husband but the husband can take another wife so long as he did not divorce the separated wife.
@@seanleonard8067 you are totally wrong . give scriptures not your opinion.. way off bro. we are not Muslims... we are children of the living God . read luke 16 :18...ronans 7:1-3,1st Corinthian 7:39... gen 2:23-26 two become one flesh and then go to sleep. it's past your bedtime... you need some rest homey... .
Surely each case has to be judged individually. If a brother had a wife who simply decided to leave him for another man it seems very harsh to disqualify him from eldership.
I think God is more gracious and forgiving than that. There may well be many 'undivorced' pastors whose marriages are a sham but they continue as pastors. A divorced or remarried man who has repented of any fault and has had some years of blameless life and who is gifted and called by God should be considered for appointment in my view.
@@philipbuckley759 Philipp I really hope that your marriage is not one of 50% of marriages today that end in split...mostly initiated by women. I REFUSE to judge anyone who's spouse has of their own free will / God's decree (for calvinists) decided to abandon their partner or fall from faith. It takes two people to start a street fight.....but sometimes they both wanna fight...sometimes an innocent victim gets jumped. Would you blame victims of crime for being victims?
I used to go to a church that believed divorce was the unpardonable sin. The pastor was never divorced. The 3 elders were unmarried 20 or so year old boys that still lived with their mothers. Only one even had a job. Very few adult men in the church, and they had all been divorced. I don't think that is the biblical intent either. Either the Blood of Jesus covers sin or it does not.
Word of encouragement: 1). Galatians 2:20 2). And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God. Luke 9:62 KJV bible.com/bible/1/luk.9.62.KJV Amen Travis, May the spirit of Christ lead you into all righteousness.... "Crucify your flesh in Christ. Live by the Faith of the Son of God. Make sure you dont look back"
Thank you for your insight. That the divorce rates in the church today equal that of the world is very troubling. Sadly, I know believers who are on their 3rd and 4th marriages!! Realizing this, the question that I struggle with in opening these crucial leadership positions to divorced men is how would a pastor/elder with a divorce in their past be able to credibly counsel believers Biblically to hang in and work through marital difficulties when they themselves, for whatever reason, were not been able to? It seems to me that there are many areas of service in the church where this qualification does not apply. A man can certainly teach, preach and evangelize without a pulpit.
Did Israel not commit adultury against God? Many generations did not turn back to Him. In this day and age the said can be said against anyone who does no accept the gospel. Therefore, how can God counsel us on relationship when He couldn't solve all of His... Obviously, it takes two to make a marriage, but sometimes it's only one to make a divorce. Therefore, one spouse could be perfect in their relationship (like God is) and still end up divorced, (and none of us are perfect).
sgt muffin And yet look at what justification of divorce has done to the church. Divorce argument can be swapped with the LGBT movement which last I heard has helped Twitter to relax its policy on art of nude children. if you want to defend that too, may Jesus have mercy on you.
The world Paul preached in was steep in Paganism, and having more than one wife is not the notably most recent idea of Joseph Smith/Mormonism. Yet the part of greatest difficulty was about the requirements for pastors (elders), bishops, spoken of as if men such as these, or men such as Theologians/Seminary Professors/Pastors today were themselves all so mature as if they were not going through the process of Sanctification (which is in the hands of Christ, 1 Cor 1:30) like the rest of us. This was my perception. News flash: we are all in the same boat, and even if some are at the front of the boat, they still are in the process of being conformed to the image of Jesus Christ, for no one ‘has arrived’, and Paul said that he himself had not attained. We learn from the HG (1 Cor 3:13-14, 1John 3:20,27 John 14:26), so let no man teach you, but the HG and the KJV. How much we ought to expect from a Pastor would be a touch more than any regular Christian, and to ask for much more would seem too high expectations. Most place Pastors in pedestals, and by that most avoid doing the work of studying to find themselves approved unto GOD, as men should study.
I know as a man I am 100% responsible for my divorce. I take ownership of the failures. This drives me crazy I wasn't saved till after my divorce. I was a addict and alcoholic. I really feel like my hands are tied as far as what I can do in church.
john barnette brother this doesn’t apply to you. As you where divorced prior to being saved. Remember Paul was a murderer before he was saved and God used him mightily
Me too man.... I've lived a filthy life in the past and I have 2 children out of wedlock but now I feel a strong urge to go out and preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ ...but that seems like a problem.
john barnette sorry to hear that. My first wife divorced me when I returned from Iraq. Yea, I had anger issues but she wasn’t supportive and willing to work things out. I went to counseling for my anger. My second wife divorced me while I was working on my Masters in Bible College. Friends attempted to talk to her. They tried to lead her through the Bible. She told them she knew what the Bible said but she didn’t care. Now I’m remarried, six years now. I’m a Chaplain in a hospital. Churches won’t hire me due to the divorce and remarriage issue. Two problems is find in the church; biblical illiteracy and full of Pharisees.
@Danny Murdach Thanks. Awesome to be clean-sober and separate from the filthy way I used to live. I'm still very ashamed. Just would like to do more for God. Prayers brother.
"Raise your children up in the way they should go, and they shall not depart from it" This is not a commandment. It is a statement of fact. If a man does not love his wife and children (Love as action, many actions, as in Corinthians, not emotion ) they will go in they way they have been kept, and not depart from it. Therefore a pastor whose wife has left, and children steeped in/imprisoned for immorality, should not be trusted to be an elder in the congregation, because he left his first estate (his marriage) unkept, and he did not Love them. I love my children emotionally for sure, but I sure am guilty of not loving them by action. How therefore can he prepare the Body for the marriage supper of the Lamb? A man will always be a husband and father first, before pastor and elder. His family is still his responsibility above the congregation. Serving God will never cause a man to abandon is wife and children, nor them to abandon him. He must have good fruit worthy of righteous judgement. A man clearly guided by the hand of the Holy Spirit. This is not what I "believe ". That is what I know to be true, given by the Word of God.
Is it what people say or what the Bible says?? Let's not be looking for people's suggestions when it comes to marriage. It's what God says in the Word of God,the Bible,that stands, period!!
I think we, (the church leadership "we") need to do a better job of finding out how the man in doing in the home! We must guard against the master manipulator and controller who is sinning against his family daily and rules over them, yet fooling the church they only see occasionally. This is how we put churches as risk. This is how children of ministry leaders leave the faith! The word "exemplary" is a good standard. Not perfection, but blameless in the areas of husbanding and parenting. Self control in the areas of anger, porn, alcohol, food, spending, gambling and the like. There must be an environment of no retribution for the family to be honest and men who are unwilling to let the spouse or children be interviewed separately, are likely unqualified to lead, and you just do not yet know why...
The chain of command starts with God, who then chooses an apostle who then chooses pastors and bishops an so on. A man cannot simply choose to be a pastor as his own house must 1st be in order.
What so many in the church fail to understand and the fail to look at is full biblical text. They like to nit-pick Scripture to justify their views. Marriage take two people to work. One can end it for any reason which is basically selfish. Paul prohibits Christians from divorcing their nonbelieving spouse. However, if the nonbeliever wish to leave Paul tells the Christians to let them go and they are no longer enslaved. To be no longer enslaved means to be free. Today’s society assumes if a couple divorces the fault is on the husband. A man can be a leader in his home but for some reason the woman can choose to no longer live under those conditions. We have free will.
A. Smith can you be any more selfish? Can you project any more? That is the very attitude on why marriages fail, self seeking. Marriage is a two way road. It isn't 50/50. It should be 100/100. Some days it doesn't feel that way but not matter how bad either person feel about the other love covers a multitude of sins and hurt feelings.
roxineus Paul tells husbands to be an example of Christ to their wife. This is said in a society that is predominantly male focused. Women were lesser citizens. What Paul calls for is husbands to humble themselves, to be more like servants than masters. A man can do just that and his wife can still leave him.
If the divorced man is truly a man of God, he will serve humbly elsewhere in the church. Just the status in and of itself can be a stumbling block to many believers and nonbelievers as he preaches behind the pulpit. A godly humble man will not put himself in a position that will hinder the flock. He can serve in so many other areas beside the pulpit such missionaries, church elders/ deacons, youth pastors etc. If he still feels called to be a pastor, then he should really evaluate the heart as the heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked. His calling should not be based solely on an internal feeling but also an external calling by being recognized by well established leaders. Pastoring a church is a serious job with serious consequences when not done properly. James 3:1 warns us "Not many of you should become teachers, my fellow believers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly" Yet we have many people in the role of pastors because they "felt"in their heart called by God. I think this video does an excellent job explaining why there must be an external validation to be called as pastors of a church: ruclips.net/video/UpG5qxgpTOY/видео.html
You really need to go back to Bible basics. Why would God call a man to be a good church leader. Give him a wife. Wife gets greedy in her heart divorce her husband. Then "we" all say this man is not fit to lead the church from the front. But he is now demoted, but good enough to be a mini pastor over the young people. Who could lead a stray the young folk. Surely it's God who calls us and alots out the gifts to us. Not the ideas of well wishers?
@Marcos Ross Maybe you did not understand the post. Regardless of who divorced who, the status in and of itself can become a stumbling block to believers and nonbelievers alike. I strongly believe a man of God will not put himself in a position that could hinder the flock in anyway. For a man to give up the pulpit to serve elsewhere in the body of christ is certainly not a demotion. What an insult to the body of christ. Every role in the body of christ has a specific job and just as much important. A true man of God will know when to humbly step down and serve in other areas with humility and submission to our Lord.
I’d have to disagree with his conclusion. It negates what Christ taught on marriage in Matthew 19 and ripple effect that it can have in one’s life and ministry. There are offices that some are not qualified for because of different reasons, and we can disqualify ourselves by our sin. Moses could not enter the holy land because he sinned. We can hurt our ministry and the ministry of the church when we “too hastily lay on hands,” continue in a ministry position after being disqualified, or bending the qualifications because we know someone. Yes, we can have great people serving in positions other than deacon, pastor, or elder. The qualifications must be adhered to or else risk polluting the office.
But Moses was qualified to be the leader of God's people. The consequences are God's prerogative. If God calls a person into leadership no man can disqualify him or her. Think!
@@rjmallord6849 and how would one know they are qualified? God physically chose Moses yet ask us as Believers to choose these men by qualifications. It is arrogant to think otherwise. Too many horrible people never meant to lead are in these positions, putting aside the husband of one wife, all of the other non interpretive qualifications are very difficult as well and I would say 90% of pastors do not fit within those. That is a problem.
@@rjmallord6849 Moses disqualified himself by disobeying God. This is not is reference to salvation but in serving. You can disqualify yourself from serving for a whole number of reasons. That does not mean that God cannot use you anymore. You might not serve in that office anymore, but God can use you in different ways.
@@ASmith-jn7kf Hello, if one believes themselves to be called by God then the proper response is to obey. It will be up to others to make the choice as to whether or not they will follow. Men cannot know for certain what is in the heart of another. King David from an outsiders point of view was not that great of a person but he was special in the eyes of God.
I strongly disagree. Being a pastor is an important position. Your personal life should show that you respect marriage and women. Some pastors have been married and remarried 2-3 times. There personal lives are a mess. How can they advise others? Remember, Jesus never mentioned abortion or homosexuality, but he gave extensive instructions about divorce. This is an important issue.
The Bible is clear on reasons of divorce, one of them being abandonment. Under those reasons of legitimate divorce, that person can remarry and be considered a man of one woman and therefore ascend to the role of pastor, all other factors being considered.
You can serve as a pastor divorced but you can't remarry because then your living in adultery theres a different from committing a sin and living in .you must repent you cant live in willful sin
Before addressing this topic either way the most important thing we need to understand is that marriage is an earthly covenant between one man and one woman. It is a gift from God and he defines what it is: the two become "one flesh" and are only separated by death. The only time Scripture says divorce is an option (though not required) is when Christ says you may in cases of adultery and when Paul says if a non-believer leaves a believer because of their faith. For the marriage covenant itself God never differentiates between if it is two believers, two unbelievers, or one of each. A person getting saved does not change the marriage covenant. Jesus said if a man divorces his wife and she remarries then he is causing her to commit adultery. How unfair does that seem to our modern-day Western mindset? The husband is the one who divorces yet the wife is still considered as adulterous even though she didn't initiate the divorce? Yet, those are the words of Christ himself, the God who gave marriage to mankind. It's not because Jesus is being unfair, but because we have too low a view of what marriage really is. We are products of our Western culture that has systematically destroyed any notion that God is the one who ordains marriage, not earthly governments. The other sins listed on the qualifications of an elder do not deal with breaking a conventional relationship. That is why having them in your past does not disqualify you.
EXACTLY!!! How on earth is this guy or ANYONE ELSE for that matter blatantly disregarding Jesus' own words AND Paul's, written under the inspiration of the Spirit of Jesus??? Jesus draws a CLEAR line: "But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except on the ground of sexual immorality, makes her commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery (Matt 5:32, also Matt 19:9)." And Paul's 2nd witness, "To the married I give this command (NOT I, BUT THE LORD): A wife MUST NOT separate from her husband. But if she does, she MUST REMAIN UNMARRIED OR else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife. (1 Cor 7:10-11)." What am I missing from these two witnesses, BOTH from the Lord Jesus???
@@markthompson788 suit yourself, by the way how common was divorce in 66ad? Paul was ministering to the Gentiles and polygomy was common. While Polygomy is not condemed in scriptures ( Leviticus Chapter 11), Paul was trying to be practical, how could the leader of a group keep up with a bunch of wives and the needs of his congregation.
@@JoshDavisfarmbureau Thank you for your response. My understanding is that one could also be translated as first, which would imply not divorced. I would think that would make sense. If a man can't lead a family, how could he lead a church family. However, I agree with everything you said, and I can't claim to know exactly everything that Paul was contextualizing. The one wife context you present makes perfect sense as well.
@@mkirules interesting. So you think he was referring to Divorce? Also, do you think Jews needed licence to marry, or could the temple govern that part of Jewish life?
Paul was writing to a polygamous community, Timothy was a Bishop at Corinth so a husband of two or three wives could not be in leadership in the church, its that simple
Timothy was at Ephesus ( 1 tim 1:3) Ephesus was under roman rule where polygamy was already illegal. Paul didnt need to address polygamy. In Romans 7 and 1 Cor 7 he already says marriage is binding until death and gives no room for remarriage anywhere.
@@nateroc147 I think some of the details that led to your conclusion are flawed, according to wikipedia its said in Rome and Greece Polygamy was prohibited but in the Bible there's evidence that it was being practiced, Read with me 1 Corinthians 5:1-5, the bible does not say this guy slept with his mother but with his father's wife and these were believers, it simply means the father was polygamous, Genesis 49:4 another example of a son who slept with his father's wife, that's from a polygamous family. so again the reason for church leaders to have one wife is the spiritual order of representing THE BRIDE AND THE GROOM, Christ and his Church
@@messibooks6530 The lust of the flesh are adultery,fornication. Nobody is denying polygamy existed. Polygamy was already illegal, so for him to address you couldn't be a criminal breaking the law (polygamy)to be a pastor is highly unlikely. Again timothy was in Ephesus not corinth. We are addressing that wasn't what paul was talking about.. Jesus dealt with the same circumstances in matt 19:3-6 He takes them back 4,000 years to the beginning. Showing God's ordained marriage plan is eternal. It transcends time, relevance, culture, opinion, or interpretation. The 2 are bound until death does them part. Paul follows up in romans and Corinthians and says not I but. GOD. commands you are bound until death.If you separate remain unmarried or be reconciled to your husband. If Jesus and Paul address that you cannot remarry until your spouse dies and that is God's law why would breaking that be ok and you be appointed to a leadership position? Other qualifications are above reproach? Another qualification one who knows how to rule his own house? How are you above reproach with multiple divorce and remarriage? How are you ruling your own house well if you have 3 separate families? How is ruling your own house well shuttling multiple kids to multiple women? Thats worldly thinking, God doesn't expect his sanctified appointed shepards of whole flocks to be engaged in that. God is holy. To throw out the Word as a whole and say he was talking about polygamy doesn't fit with the other scriptures in context.
You hit a most vital & viable word: “standard”...What is the character, the standard of living, the integrity of the individual in leadership or who desires to become a leader, and the likes there of 🤔!!!
Beloved, I don't know you in person but God know you. God ministered to me in a revelation when I was on your profile to see things around you,I saw blessings but spiritual attacks holding onto them,in prayers,i saw a woman in the realm of the spirit monitoring and plotting delay in your life, with an evil mirror, and with motive to destroy. But as I speak to you now her time is up, Render hand of favour with Anything you can afford or give to these motherless foundation (Godstime MOTHERLESS FOUNDATION) in kebbi state Nigeria before 2DAYS with faith, as I Rise my hands towards heaven and pray for you they shall serve as point of contact wherever you are, you will receive double portion of grace to excel and total restoration of breakthrough in your life and in the life of your family. Ask for their acct details and help them call the MD in charge of the orphanage to get their details on (WhatsApp or call them now on +2348154975597) tell him I sent you. For it is not by might nor by in power but of the spirit saith the lord (zechariah 4:6). You shall testify to the Glory of God in your life. God bless you in Jesus name
Philip Buckley you realize that the Greek says “man of one woman”, which could or could not imply “wife.” So Paul could be forbidding polygamy instead of multiple marriages. That’s why this is a nuanced issue.
Hopefully everyone who is commenting is in a successful marriage. I just have a question what about those who endure abuse whether physical or mental or those who married someone that commits a crime and is now serving a life sentence or what about the husband or wife that keeps sleeping around and has contracted HIV. Should believers stay married in these situations? Is it so black and white that believers should just stay in any type of marriage just because even unto death? Is that Gods will. Or can believers make mistakes and be redeemed by the blood of Jesus just like sinners? Just a question anybody who has experienced marriage knows that your spouse has free will and you can follow every biblical standard and still end up on divorce. I believe it’s up to God and His spirit to decide who is qualified and who is not.
I personally, don't understand why this is an issue; what I'm beginning to understand, is where the confusion originates: it originates from Seminary. Our Lord made it clear, that divorce and re-marriage is adultery. Paul also made it clear what The Lord commands, and what he (Paul) was allowed (to teach) by permission. The parameters are clearly defined. If a "Pastor" steps out of these boundaries, then he is in a state of apostasy: how then can his teachings be unbiased? The lines then become blurred, and we have, what we have today: a Church in confusion, and largely in a state of apostasy. If we eliminate these boundaries, how then is it defined? ...by our feelings? Or by a Seminary professor? There is an important reason why The Lord has set these boundaries; God Himself has subjected Himself to the bonds of marriage with regards to Israel. His heart is not hardened towards Israel, but remains open to reconciliation, and will not re-marry until the bonds of marriage have been completely met. This is why the sun, moon and stars are darkened before He comes, this is the sign to the entire world, that Israel has ceased to be a Nation, forever (Jer.31:35-36), and He is free to re-marry...which He does immediately following: which is the translation of our bodies incorruptible, and immortal. The two become one flesh, and so shall we ever be with The Lord.
I was just telling someone at church the other day that we've lived to a time where a man can could fill out a resume that simply says "husband of one wife, not a brawler, not covetous, not a striker, not given to filthy lucre, not given to wine, wife is in subjection, kids aren't unruly, have good report of them that are without, and ruleth well my own house" and turn it in and some deacon would say "well we liked your resume but we didn't read anywhere that it said you have a degree from a Calvinist school so we're not gonna consider you anymore". But then some guy could turn in a resume that says "divorced, brawler, covetous, striker, money hungry, drinker, trashy wife, brat kids, terrible reputation outside the church, unruly home life, degree from Calvinist seminary" and they'd say "VOTE HIM IN NOW"! I know that might be hyperbole but the point is that this video is hypocritical in the sense that the man talking here would never vote for a guy as pastor of a baptist church that didn't have a degree whether he fit GOD'S qualifications to a tee or not. The modern church is no different. We've disregarded God's qualifiers and created our own.
Read the Bible well The Lord didn't say what you wrote. Big difference between Separation and Divorce. Jesus spoke on separation ,Paul spoke on divorce Separation (bride price not returned) and remarriage = Adultery But Divorce (Genuine divorce, not premeditated ) = remarriage is possible The mistake was that they (Jews) took separation to mean divorce So they Put-Away their wives without a certificate of divorce which before God = adultery
@@Esbamken ... Interesting, that we are always looking for loopholes. Bottom line...it's of the flesh, and of a hard heart. If there was love, none of this would matter.
The Pastor committed adultery, first wife divorce him. He remarries and still pastoring. The church never contacted the first wife to find the truth. The pastor told a lie to the church and said she wouldn't follow him in the ministry. Not only did he commit adultery, he lied to the church why he was divorced.
Agree. Also, that pastor is showing people “I can leave my wife, abandoned my kids, start a new family, and still do Gods work!” Which means he couldn’t keep his house in order.
Once you start complicating the Bible to fit your narrative... this is where it gets sinful. The Bible is simple. To be a pastor, you must be a man of one wife. This means under NO circumstance can you have more than 1 wife during your entire life. Don't read words that are not there and create it to read what the world wants. The Bible is complete, and God said what He wanted said.
The Bible is clear on reasons of divorce, one of them being abandonment. Under those reasons of legitimate divorce, that person can remarry and be considered a man of one woman and therefore ascend to the role of pastor, all other factors being considered.
@@pfzht sorry I dont understand.....if it is continuous then one would have to leave that relationship.....and not then why make a big deal out of it....if one can repent and remain in what the Bible called adultery, it is akin to changing a sin, into a non sin, with no change, on our part...
I’m in the category of divorcing prior to salvation. My first marriage lasted five years. I got married again two years later. My wife and I was saved by God’s grace four years after that. I was called to the ministry about two years ago. I’ve been faithfully married to the same woman twenty one years next month. I know it will be an uphill climb for me to apply to a church that list the qualifications of 2 Timothy and Titus in the first few lines of the posting of the position. Each situation is different and situation should be evaluated in light of scripture and the details of the minister.
nowhere, in Scripture does it excuse an non believer....once again John the Baptist lost his life, over this very issue....oh dont worry...repent and you can stay in your adultery....
you need to read the scriptures really carefully and with the help of the holy spirit, john the Baptist didn't die because of what you said it was because the king took his brothers wife and john the Baptist pointed out his sin!!!!!
No, if you repent and God forgives you, you can stay married to your second spouse and you are not living in adultery. Yes, you committed adultery by divorcing and remarrying, but after genuine repentance and forgiveness, you can remain with your second spouse with God's blessing. People who have multiple marriages are usually consumed by sexual attraction and are not genuine in their repentance.
How on earth is this guy or ANYONE ELSE for that matter blatantly disregarding Jesus' own words AND Paul's, written under the inspiration of the Spirit of Jesus??? "But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except on the ground of sexual immorality, makes her commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery (Matt 5:32, also Matt 19:9)." And Paul's 2nd witness, "To the married I give this command (NOT I, BUT THE LORD): A wife MUST NOT separate from her husband. But if she does, she MUST REMAIN UNMARRIED OR else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife. (1 Cor 7:10-11)." What am I missing from these two witnesses, BOTH from the Lord Jesus???
A drunker is a person who is addicted to drinking liquor and is under its power and control. It doesn't mean a person who drinks a glass of wine is unable to be a leader. Is he subject to it or is he subject to the will and plan of God and Christ.
So my question is this: What does this mean for single pastors? They don't have an exemplary marriage. I mean, Paul does say that if you control yourself it is better to stay single...
he said, to marry.....if one leaves the marriage, then the options are to reconcile, or to remain single.....not to reconcile, if possible....and then remarry...
Well, if you go back to Adam's creation. Eve was only created because God saw that Adam was lonely. So what if you are not lonely, and do not need any form of companionship?
I don't think it's a sin for single people to be pastors. Some people think it's a sin for single people to be pastors due to the Bible verse in 1 Timothy 3 requiring pastors to be the husband of one wife. The Greek word for "husband of one wife" means one woman man, someone who's not an adulterer, someone who's not a player, someone who's not a womanizer, etc. Paul, Timothy, and Titus were pastors of churches, and they were never married, and God approved of them being pastors.
There is actually a fourth view. That Paul was saying the man of one wife because of the polygamy that took place in the OT. Solomon had mutiple wives and concubines. The time and energy needed to be spent on mutiple wives takes time away from ministry. Plus it was two from the beginning (Adam and Eve). Polygamy may have been allowed as way to repopulate. Great explanation though.
True, but one still has to address the requirement to manage his household well. Also, except for in the case of fornication, divorce and remarriage could be viewed as polygamy.
How on earth is this guy or ANYONE ELSE for that matter blatantly disregarding Jesus' own words AND Paul's, written under the inspiration of the Spirit of Jesus??? "But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except on the ground of sexual immorality, makes her commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery (Matt 5:32, also Matt 19:9)." And Paul's 2nd witness, "To the married I give this command (NOT I, BUT THE LORD): A wife MUST NOT separate from her husband. But if she does, she MUST REMAIN UNMARRIED OR else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife. (1 Cor 7:10-11)." What am I missing from these two witnesses, BOTH from the Lord Jesus???
No. Divorce disqualifies you as or to be a pastor. You can serve God faithfully in many other areas. I served God as a firefightrer-paramedic in places where doors were closed to others. God uses us in ways we don't realize until we in the midst of it, at times.
Love this - it expresses a clear heart to serve wherever God places you without ego of having a particular title. All one body with work to do, but not all the same parts. Many women can resonate with this since they are typically excluded from most areas of leadership, yet God may call them to lead and serve a dying world in areas that are secular or career.
@@elibennett6168 you serve where God puts you. I spent years telling God, . . . TELLING God I would do that but not that, go there but not go there. Not good. In time, . . . whatever you want, wherever you want, send me. To be a good and obedient servant is enough. It is not a game. It is a life of joyful service.
My ex wife filed for the divorce. Before it was final i got saved and pleaded with her for us to stay married. She did not want to. As i walked with the Lord i asked God to take the feelings away that i had for her if it was his will. God took the feelings away. She remarried and 5 yrs later i met the saved wife i am married to this day for 15 yrs. my wife i have now is my one wife. First marriage was lustful matrimony. Wife now was and is Holy matrimony.
Darian Bennett First marriage was lustful matrimony? What a nonsense, weak-willed statement. Second marriage as lustful matrimony, however, make a lot of sense.
But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except on the ground of sexual immorality, makes her commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery. - Matt 5:32 Once your first wife remarried she committed adultery and you could rightfully consider the divorce to be valid. But just because the other person was the one who initiated the divorce does not break the covenant of marriage nor release the other person by itself. Paul does speak of a non-believer leaving a believer and they can "let them go" so in that respect it is allowed, but not just because one person leaves the other. Notice how Jesus in the verse above says even the wife (who did not ask for the divorce) is still considered in adultery. He does not qualify anything about whether these are believers or not. He does not ever talk about the motives behind why they got married. It's a messy situation, but we live in a broken world filled with sin. In your situation it appears God gave grace and has blessed you since then with a loving wife. You can have peace in your situation and from Scripture I see no sin. But PLEASE do not go around trying to qualify your first marriage as a "lustful matrimony" and that is why the divorce was OK. That is not a biblical category, but just a worldly rationale. There is NEVER a distinction made in Scripture about different kinds of marriage based on if the people are believers or not or what their intentions were. I agree that many people in our world today get married for the wrong reasons and with stupid intentions, but that does not invalidate the marriage they chose to enter.
@@crysis_averted - He was free to remarry when his first wife divorced him. He didn't have wait for her to remarry, or to have sex with someone else. (1Co 7:15 TLV) But if the unbeliever separates, let him be separated. The brother or the sister is not bound in such cases, but God has called you to shalom. (1Co 7:15 KJV) But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.
Above reproach I would give the opinion of present tense. One of the disciples was a murderer. And they are now considered a pillar of the faith. If we looked with eyes not present would we allow a killer to talk to us about Jesus. The man was redeemed and brought out of that sin presently therefore being without reproach.
Dr. Schreiner does a thorough job here and as he pointed to, there are many different situations. Qualified men "order their own households well" and if they don't the scripture says "how can they care for the household of God?" "Husbands, love your wives as Christ loved the church and gave Himself for her". I'm still not sure if a man divorced prior to regeneration or after could be called to the office of pastor. I'd like to say that it depends on the details of the divorce but it would be impossible to know the truth about everything that happened in the marriage. Every wrong thought, every ill motive, every unkind word or action done in the dark. Are they both true believers? For that reason, I believe that the safe bet is to NOT allow a divorced man into office and after all, he bears responsibility for the divorce no matter what happened. Appointing elders should be a serious decision and is even commanded that it be done through prayer and through fasting. I would guess that not many churches follow the fasting part of that command but are hasty in their laying on of hands. I agree with Dr. Schreiner that "the husband of one wife" means a one woman man so if a widower remarries he can still be called to the office. If a pastor commits adultery then there is no question that he should be disqualified for life because he is no longer above reproach, or well thought of by outsiders. You CAN in fact bring a charge against him.
I was in a church many years back, that was created from divorced pastors. These pastors were kicked out of their respective congregations because of divorce and re married to other women. That church group took off with a mighty move, but within one year issues crept in and the whole organisation collapsed . This was an Esau ministry, not Isaac who was called by God. So that'll always fail.
In 1 Timothy, Paul was specifically addressing the issues of false teachers - teachers of false doctrine. He mentions them at least four times in the letter. By false teachers he meant those who add to or subtract from the gospel. He identifies them as purveyors of myths and endless genialogies. Those were common among the Gnostics and the Ophites (a sub-set of Gnosticism). They were mystical in their thought, given to "hidden truths," sexually immoral (thnking that there was no such thing as "sin" and that Christ was just a spiritual being) and they considered themselves to be spiritually superior to other Christians. In 1 Timothy 2, Paul was contrasting what would make a good elder (deacon, pastor, teacher) with what would make a poor one. His point: Make sure you are choosing someone who will present the gospel and only the gospel. Don't appoint someone who goes off on wild tagents, ignoring the real gospel message; whose life reflects the lives of the false teachers.
Beloved, I don't know you in person but God know you. God ministered to me in a revelation when I was on your profile to see things around you,I saw blessings but spiritual attacks holding onto them,in prayers,i saw a woman in the realm of the spirit monitoring and plotting delay in your life, with an evil mirror, and with motive to destroy. But as I speak to you now her time is up, Render hand of favour with Anything you can afford or give to these motherless foundation (Godstime MOTHERLESS FOUNDATION) in kebbi state Nigeria before 2DAYS with faith, as I Rise my hands towards heaven and pray for you they shall serve as point of contact wherever you are, you will receive double portion of grace to excel and total restoration of breakthrough in your life and in the life of your family. Ask for their acct details and help them call the MD in charge of the orphanage to get their details on (WhatsApp or call them now on +2348154975597) tell him I sent you. For it is not by might nor by in power but of the spirit saith the lord (zechariah 4:6). You shall testify to the Glory of God in your life. God bless you in Jesus name
How do you get around the last part of the same verse that says that the pastor/elder/overseer is to "manage his own household well"? If he has managed his own household well, he would have taken care of his wife and children and the divorce would not have happened. If the husband had done what Paul states in Ephesians and loved and served his wife as Christ loved and served the Church even going back to Ephesians 5:21 and submitting to EACH OTHER we would not have seen that divorce take place.
I was married for 3 months before I left for deployment to the Persian Gulf. I supported my wife while I was away as best I could. Within 2 months, she was sleeping around. Was that my fault, or hers? I remained faithful, she didn't. When I came back from deployment, I divorced her. I'm remarried (for 15 years now), have 2 great kids, and love Christ and my family with all I have. I think it's entirely possible to do all you can to love someone and care for them, and they not return that love.
@@rockhardnipple6633 you should have been advised against leaving so soon after marriage. In the old testament we see that soldiers had to stay home for a year after they were married. Your divorce was biblical. As to whether you can be a pastor, I don't know, I'll have to examine that issue a bit more.
@@GiaGirlism I'm not a Pastor. I do teach at church though. My only point is that it's hard to make clear cut decisions. There are so many circumstances surrounding divorces. I agree that marriage should be worked out. Sometimes people don't REALLY know someone until it's too late. I only wish we could be like Hosea. I just couldn't take the repetitive betrayal. I'm glad Christ is more forgiving than I am.
He doesn't have to "get around it." It's consistent with what he stated in his answer. By "managing his own household well" it doesn't have to mean that he ALWAYS has. It means that he currently has a proven track record of it. There are plenty of married 23 year olds who don't yet have a clue how to manage their household well, that will be very competent when they are 40.
@@rockhardnipple6633 I'm terribly sorry that you got a divorce and I greatly thank you for your service to our country. I believe that you are clearly unqualified to serve as a pastor but I absolutely admire your faithfulness to our Lord in glorifying him in the ways that you still can though. What kills me is that some people think "well if I can't have the job I think I should have then I'll just lay down on God and do nothing" and that's clearly the wrong attitude. Keep fighting the good fight of faith my friend!
The problem with that line of thought is that Jesus said a second marriage is adulterous. “But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.” Matthew 5:32
A very difficult subject. Covered well. I would add that the one being selected should take the health of the body into consideration before accepting a nomination. Controversy needs to be handled in love. The member who objects with opinion should also be ready to measure the true weight of that objection. The Christian paradigm is one of redemption.
I was in divorce court some time back and was observing the hostilities. The petitioner hated the respondent, and the feeling was mutual. They both hated the judge. The judge hated them. The opposing attorneys hated each other and their clients. The conflicts revolved around sharing the children, school permissions for custody/time sharing, interim support, lack of employment and finally hiring experts ordered by the judge! At that time the Spirit of God spoke into my spirit and said now do you see why I hate divorce. I was deeply moved by that word to me. Pastors are not immune from that ongoing ungodliness. I will not ever sit under the teaching of a divorced pastor or teacher.
Would you ever sit under the teachings of a murderer??? Apostle Paul was one before coming to know Christ People live lives before being saved from their sins, and they make terrible mistakes during that time. Thankfully, GOD forgives. It would be nice if men would too
@@roblane5699 Good reply. If you read Paul, he repeatedly states his disqualification as the worst of believers. However, he had a more perfect appointment as he said himself. He did not confer with anyone but was delivered the gospel by Jesus. And to be sure his awful behavior occurred before his conversion. What we see today are self appointed men who become "life coaches" and not ministers of the gospel delivered to them from Christ. I am an attorney who has had to deal with minister crashes. I must say that the pride exhibited by "fallen" preachers is astounding. They have no compunction to after divorcing, to visiting prostitutes, to fraud, to pedophilia and then returning to the pastorate after "getting counseling." They should not return. Look at the New Testament directives. They can be restored to "fellowship" but should never have a post of leadership as they have failed during their instruction to others. Consider the fellow in Corinth who was having sex with his mother. He ostracized at Paul's direction but was also returned to fellowship also at Paul's direction. So we learn that "believers" in leadership are judged more strictly. James 3:1.
@@roblane5699 Sure God forgives and being caught in a sin can be restored to fellowship. I John 1:9 and Galatians 6:1 are instructive. However, today's leadership consider their position as one of monetary gain and that is the rub. How about those leaders who have been removed and then turn around and sue the church? What is at stake is the ministry of the Holy Spirit who is given in promise to us. The upside down mode of church leadership -- the "Moses model" is error and produces leaders given to abuse of the congregants.
@@roblane5699 I represent people in criminal defense and I would strive to have them set free but once free, I would never sit under their instruction or take them into my home. That should answer you too simple a question.
Studied this subject for many years and now as a senior pastor in Texas I have held 3 different views over time. You are right on this subject Do your research and your EXEGESIS... NOT EISEGESIS !!!
Beloved, I don't know you in person but God know you. God ministered to me in a revelation when I was on your profile to see things around you,I saw blessings but spiritual attacks holding onto them,in prayers,i saw a woman in the realm of the spirit monitoring and plotting delay in your life, with an evil mirror, and with motive to destroy. But as I speak to you now her time is up, Render hand of favour with Anything you can afford or give to these motherless foundation (Godstime MOTHERLESS FOUNDATION) in kebbi state Nigeria before 2DAYS with faith, as I Rise my hands towards heaven and pray for you they shall serve as point of contact wherever you are, you will receive double portion of grace to excel and total restoration of breakthrough in your life and in the life of your family. Ask for their acct details and help them call the MD in charge of the orphanage to get their details on (WhatsApp or call them now on +2348154975597) tell him I sent you. For it is not by might nor by in power but of the spirit saith the lord (zechariah 4:6). You shall testify to the Glory of God in your life. God bless you in Jesus name
I do not believe God permits divorce and remarriage under any circumstances (even adultery). I know I'm in the overwhelming minority in today's divorce-saturated culture, but, I believe the only consistent interpretation of this matter is that Jesus prohibited all divorce, and the exception clause applies to the Jewish law about a bride who is discovered on her wedding night to not be a virgin (which is why Matthew, writing to a Jewish audience is the only author to include the exception clause, and why he uses the word "porneia" or "fornication"). As it pertains to appointing elders, we certainly can't appoint men who have been unfaithful to their first marriage covenant. I know, I know, I'm a horrible person for saying so. And the fact that we have so many compromising pastors leading today's Church has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that we are appointing unqualified men to lead.
Firstly, your scriptural argument completely ignores Apostle Paul's exegesis on the subject. Secondly, by your logic, people in physically and mentally abusive relationships should be stay married *legally,* even though their marriage reflects the complete opposite of what *the spirit* of marriage should be as outlined in Ephesians 6. Jesus Christ was never legalistic. He *always* defended the vulnerable. The heart is more important to Him than external adherence. You need to read Ezra, where God's people repented from marrying pagan wives by *divorcing them.* It was more important to God that their hearts were submitted than that they stayed married. If you cannot see that your viewpoint restricts the grace and mercy of Christ, I think you should ask God for greater love and understanding of His word.
@@petalblossom96 - I have not "completely ignored" Paul's teaching; my comment was not meant to be a doctoral dissertation covering every aspect of this subject. I have studied Paul's teaching and believe that my position is in full agreement with everything Paul taught. Paul does not give permission for "remarriage". He says that divorce is permissible if the unbeliever wishes to leave, but, he does not expressly state that remarriage is permitted even in that case. I would suggest that you refrain from making moral judgments against me. I am but a man, and I am striving to serve my God faithfully, as I'm sure you think you are doing as well. I welcome Biblical discussion with those who actually know how to have a civil discussion, but I'm not interested in discussing the subject with someone who is going to call into question my "love" and character without even knowing me in person. lol
If a person is divorced several years before his conversion, is that an unpardonable sin? What other sins of the past are not forgiven? Of course the answer is clear. I agree with the professor's viewpoint. There are many self righteous people who inject their hypocritical beliefs into the discussion. Text without context is a pretext for a proof text. A proper hermeneutic is necessary for this subject and everything else.
Of course it's not an "unpardonable sin". Only blasphemy against the Holy Ghost is that. However, it is a "disqualifying" sin for that particular office and that's perfectly fine because there are tons of other things that a man can do to serve his Lord.
If you can remain abstinent all your life, do so and devote yourself fully to God. Do not have sex (or engage in sexual immorality, cough "porn!" Cough cough!). If you do need that release or if you burn in lust, get married! Stay married all your life. Period. Find a way to be faithful and make it work. If you screwed around BEFORE becoming a Christian, there is Grace there, but if you were married (or fathered children) you missed your chance to be an elder in the church. And if women or others come forward on the church who would be challenged by you becoming a pastor because of your past, then you might want to reconsider your calling, or if you were called. Take a hard line stance on yourself, you don't have to be a pastor or elder or deacon to help lead the church. When I was in the military I never joined a church, yet I was on anywhere from three to five committees, taught Sunday school and even locked and unlocked the place every Sunday and Wednesday. I submitted to the spiritual leadership of the individual church but disagreed with the greater denomination, therefore my wife and I chose to never join. We also kept thinking we would be transferred every six months, so it was always a temporary thing. My point is, you can impact a church mightily without holding an office.
You wax eloquent but you left out one important factor. The Lord. The Lord calls men and women to specific ministries. God does not see one ministry as more important than others. The Sunday school teacher has to give account just like the traveling evangelist. The deacon must give account like those who are in the ministry of helps. All ministry is important. The qualifications of a bishop is not the five fold ministry gifts. (Pastor, Teacher, Apostle, Prophet, Evangelist) A Bishop oversees more than one local fellowships. So if one would get technical the one wife prohibition only relates to a bishop. The Lord forgives all sin and allows His servants to minister as He sees fit.
@@lordssideministries4062 I agree that all sins can be forgiven, and I am not asking anyone to step down, I am forced. to trust the leading of the Holy Spirit in the hearts of my brethren. I think that taking a hard line stance and then allowing the individual congregation to exercise mercy on a case by case basis is the best option. The office of bishop or elder is executed differently in different christian sects, I can only speak to my own understanding. While I have attended Catholic, Orthodox and numerous protestant churches, I have only been a member of four denominations, and I am aware of their limitations: Anglican, Presbyterian, reformed baptist, and non denomination (which of course can mean anything!).
Theres a reason marriage is in church and you say till.death do us apart it doesn't mean in ten yrs let's trade her in and get younger women . Marriage is serious in the eyes of God but we love sin to much .divorce is of the world not the church
The phrase is stating that an elder needs to be a 'first' woman man, correlating to loving the woman of his youth and not dealing with her treacherously. Paul’s teaching here is specifically against Roman legal monogamy, serial monogamy. If a man takes another woman, at minimum he is to maintain food, clothing, and marital rights (Exodus 21:10), rather than get rid of her in order to get a ‘legal’ marriage, or because he doesn’t want the burden. However, there are cases when it is just and possibly required for a man to divorce a rebellious woman as modeled by the Lord (Jeremiah 3), sexual adultery being more obvious. In such cases a man is not disqualified from eldership, so long has he did not deal unfaithfully with the woman. The reason why we have such a hard time understanding text like this today is that we assume a western Greco/Roman understanding of the marriage covenant, which is literally the doctrine of demons, in this case Hera, forbidding Biblically grounded unions.
I think a better way is to just say what the scriptures said one wife means one wife so if you have a second wife and your first wife is still living your living in adultery.
Reputation does not seem very reliable, depending on who you ask they could say the would be pastor has a good "reputation" perhaps because he's friends with him, so its very subjective what "good reputation" means
Your view is the only logical one. There are many who will be divorced many times before they come to know God. Any other view would mean that men who were divorced before being called to repentance would be disqualified to lead a congregation. This is nonsense.....
Simple answer is a divorced pastor is unqualified to be an example that leads a church. They can still go soul winning, etc but have no place leading a church of families seeking to maintain their marriage.
They are bringing condemnation of the local church by the local community. Inside most know it is wrong to have a divorced pastor. Talking in circles will not explain this away.
The problem is there are well known charismatic men within the SBC that are divorced. They have friends and their friends try to justify the unjustifiable and thus compromise the word.
Divorce should never be condoned or disregarded. Not to mention, the Bible clearly condemns remarriage after divorce as adultery of at least one of the spouses. A pastor ideally should be married, have kids, or at least intend to have kids, raised by both parents, and having at least one sibling. He should set an example for each of those familial relationships in the church. Even if the divorce was not initiated by the person, the failing lies in them choosing a spouse. The church should assume that they may have chosen poorly when it came to getting married, and that would not reflect well on having to counsel other dating, engaged, married, or divorced people. Likewise, if the person were married, divorced, and remarried before they became a Christian, and then repented of their first marriage, getting divorced, and remarrying with the intent of being faithful until death this time, they still shouldn't hold a position of leadership, because it doesn't uphold God's ideal form of marriage. f I was in a position of leadership, and my spouse divorced me, I would resign, and make it clear that I'm resigning to keep God's word.
If the other spouse still lives, remarried is not "an" adultery, a one-time sin, it is ongoing adultery. Though they try to repress their conscience Everybody concerned knows it's adultery. You can't lead with a guilty conscience you are repressing.
i found jesus after i was married and being a christian made me realise that my marriage was not right. im going to devote my life to making god happy but that surely doesnt mean that im not allowed to be happy too.
@@philipbuckley759 maybe sometime in the future when i find a woman that i feel is right, i married my maid before just so she could save face because she got pregnant
I am thankful for congregational church government. That's deeply relevant to this issue. Not every believer is going to agree where to draw the line, and not every church will either. A church that holds that a divorced person is disqualified is perfectly within their rights (in a congregationalist government) to hold to that standard. A church where the people are open to looking at the circumstances and judging whether a person has a proven track record of faithfulness, despite a divorce in his past, is also within its rights to do so in a congregationalist government. What I think is wrong is to look down on the one you disagree with as if they are either more "legalistic" than your enlightened self, or they must be "going liberal." The first qualification sets the tone for the whole thing. He must be blameless--and in that regard, only the congregation that calls him can make that call.
Bo Stephens AMEN. One pastor told me the church has authority 😳 WHAT!!!! The church has no authority. Jesus said ALL authority is given unto HIM by his Father the Father didn’t give authority to the church. We have freedom to make decisions to an extent but again GOD has the final say. That’s why when they were replacing Judas they couldn’t just up and appoint who they felt like they had to pray and get GODS approval on it.
How on earth is this guy or ANYONE ELSE for that matter blatantly disregarding Jesus' own words AND Paul's, written under the inspiration of the Spirit of Jesus??? Jesus clearly "draws the line": "But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except on the ground of sexual immorality, makes her commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery (Matt 5:32, also Matt 19:9)." And Paul's 2nd witness, "To the married I give this command (NOT I, BUT THE LORD): A wife MUST NOT separate from her husband. But if she does, she MUST REMAIN UNMARRIED OR else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife. (1 Cor 7:10-11)." What am I missing from these two witnesses, BOTH from the Lord Jesus???
What about pastors who have systematically betrayed their own congregations to bring personal profit, practiced authoritarian bully tactics and seem to Lord themselves over their congregations? One such author, preacher, speaker etc. James MacDonald, did these things and still has a significant voice in the Christian community after being fired from his church. These are prescient questions in modern times. It's curious to think about how the church is to handle such situations.
if you got married by a court ir in church thsts makes vow or a covenant you cannot remarry until your first wife dies. i know how difficult it is because im living it.... but its a great reward in the end.. just find your true love in Christ..he is worthy..
If you were both unbelievers or the other spouse was an unbeliever the Word in 1 Corinthians 7:15 does not put blame on you, you are free to remarry and to minister. but if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace I think an important note is that our past failures and sins, if we have repented,do not disqualify us for ministry. Paul was a murderer before his encounter with Jesus, Moses was also a murderer, David committed adultery, ect. The better questions to ask is have they repented and learned from their mistake and who are they today.
@@kawaiinani very wrong .. you added to the scriptures, because nowhere in the bible does it read what you just said. but it does say thst you are not in bondage as to try to sanctify your marriage. if you stepped into a vow with witnesses than God recognizes every marriage thats why John called herods marriage with herodias unlawfull because it was his brother wife .notice how they were unbelivers yet John the baptist called his
@@kawaiinani his wife. the law of martiage is universal ... please read the book from Dr joseph webb "till death do us part... this is a big problem in believer or unbeliever because they fsil to committ themselves to the God of our marriage claws..
If all fails, thank God there is no more marriages and remarry in heaven. Marriage is a worldly thing. Let God judge. Remember restoration. Remember repentance.
I don't think divorced people are disqualified from being pastors. I think there are circumstances where a divorced person is qualified to be a pastor, and I think there are circumstances where a divorced person isn't qualified to be a pastor. If a person's marriage ended in divorce due to them being abusive, struggling with domestic violence, struggling with adultery, struggling with child abuse, etc, I think that person shouldn't be a pastor because people who struggle with being abusive, domestic violence, adultery, child abuse, etc shouldn't be pastors. If a person divorces their spouse due to their spouse getting less attractive, ending up paralyzed, getting a stroke, etc, they shouldn't be pastors because divorcing a spouse due to them getting less attractive, ending up paralyzed, getting a stroke, etc is not being a good role model for married couples in the church, not being a good role model in regards to leading a church, etc. I think if someone's marriage ended in divorce due to them not being compatible, their spouse committed adultery on them, their spouse was abusive towards them, etc, I think that person is qualified to be a pastor because marriages don't work out when people aren't compatible (sometimes people make the mistake of marrying someone they aren't compatible with), it's not someone's fault that they were cheated on, it's not someone's fault that they were abused, etc. When a married person gets abused, cheated on, etc by their spouse, it's not their fault that they were abused, cheated on, etc. No one should be abused. No one should be cheated on.
IT DEPENDS. his wife cheated on him... forgive her, take her back; his wife left him and won't come back, the pastor remains faithful (unmarried to a second partner)... then he is still qualified. because he did the right thing. now... i don't think there's any other scenario where a pastor who cheated on his wife or left her and remarried can remain qualified. do we want a purified church? well, the example must be given from above. remarriage, if one's spouse is not deceased, is adultery.
I like this man's approach but I will clear this up a little bit. My take is that when Paul mentions husband of one wife, he is talking of polygamy. It's quite possible that certain Christian's especially gentiles had two or more wives. This is why he makes that statement. If you go to preach the gospel to certain parts of the middle east and Africa today, many families still have more than one wife especially if they have wealth. Therefore, God's design is for one man and one woman. That's the example God want's in the Church as leaders. Those with more than one wife cannot serve as leadership. Neither we as a church are to ask them to divorce their wives, they just can't serve as leaders period. As for those who have been divorced. I believe remarriage is possible but in very few circumstances. The death of a spouse is one. An unfaithful wife or husband who leaves the marriage and re-marries is another one. Once that person is remarried, it is forbidden in the old testament to reconcile. It's done. So I will give you an example regarding an unfaithful wife since we are talking pastors. Wife asks husband for separation, begins seeing another man and then asks for divorce. The man grants divorce (justified i might add) and the wife remarries with the one she is seeing now. I believe that husband free and can re-marry and is no longer bound. It would be an abomination to force that man to reconcile with the wife that left him after she is remarried. That was forbidden in the old testament. I have to say that because there are some pastors out there condemning folks who remarried after their spouses remarried.
Beloved, I don't know you in person but God know you. God ministered to me in a revelation when I was on your profile to see things around you,I saw blessings but spiritual attacks holding onto them,in prayers,i saw a woman in the realm of the spirit monitoring and plotting delay in your life, with an evil mirror, and with motive to destroy. But as I speak to you now her time is up, Render hand of favour with Anything you can afford or give to these motherless foundation (Godstime MOTHERLESS FOUNDATION) in kebbi state Nigeria before 2DAYS with faith, as I Rise my hands towards heaven and pray for you they shall serve as point of contact wherever you are, you will receive double portion of grace to excel and total restoration of breakthrough in your life and in the life of your family. Ask for their acct details and help them call the MD in charge of the orphanage to get their details on (WhatsApp or call them now on +2348154975597) tell him I sent you. For it is not by might nor by in power but of the spirit saith the lord (zechariah 4:6). You shall testify to the Glory of God in your life. God bless you in Jesus name.
1 Corinthians 7:10: "To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband. 11 But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife." This command applies equally to both genders though the example provided is that of a wife leaving. Secondly, note that this is a command of the Lord and is addressed to the believers of Corinth; not just the leadership. So the NT teaching is clear on the subject. The Bible makes a provision for divorce & remarriage in the case of an unfaithful spouse (Mathew 19:9) and for no other reason; even if you are perfectly innocent. So clearly, the answer provided is a lowering of the standard set, even for a believer, more so for the office of a pastor.
Divorce is complicated and it can get exhausting when one party keeps rebuilding while the other party keeps digging their heels in wanting their own way. Marriage is unity not competition. It would be better to have programs that build strong marriages vs divorce. A pastor is looked up to as a spiritual leader. Many people rely on his knowledge to teach the flock. Divorce will devastate both side of the family, dissolve the church organization and cause many heart breaks. Unfortunately, some may even loose faith even though their faith needs to be on the Lord God not man. The pastors reputation will lack respect. It takes years to built a church foundation and can be destroyed in a short time. it’s very difficult to rebuild a strong marriage but not impossible. If I attended a church where the pastor is divorced would I judge him or her. No, the attendance may be less but would want to know why it happened. It’s tough. Pastors have a tough job with a high calling
Pastors have a tough job because they insist on the one man show.....and ignores 1 Corinthians 14.26 New Living Translation Well, my brothers and sisters, let’s summarize. When you meet together, one will sing, another will teach, another will tell some special revelation God has given, one will speak in tongues, and another will interpret what is said. But everything that is done must strengthen all of you
The gospel also speaks about the pastoral role that fathers have over their family. In order to train them out properly the parents must be properly trained. It’s only deductive reasoning. Imagine where our country would be if seminary was more open to this biblical concept that parents are told to raise their children up in the way that they should go. Church communities are preventing the glorification of God through this concept, that’s not OK.
Paul would be the very first to reject any strict legalism. Paul himself might not qualify to be a pastor in many churches today because he wasn’t married and in some Christian circles in his day was known as a troublemaker.
Hello, im a pastor i just got married to a fine young lady. she came from a Christian family. but after our marriage, months later i found out that before our marriage She got involved to another girl and have an intimate relation with that girl. So in short She is a bisexual... but after i forgive her she keeps on pursuing that girl. its so hard for me.. advice me pls. Its very hard for me. help me pls. im so broken. i dont know what to do.. :(
Advice from another pastor. Adultery is grounds for divorce, the only grounds mentioned in the Bible. It's not your fault brother, can't control what another person does and your not judged for her sins.. my mentor for seminary has the same issue, 23 years ago . I will be praying for you my brother in Christ Jesus
Be careful and wise. Dr. Schreiners apparent grace is at the cost of a broken heart. Remarriage to another especially if a man wasn’t abandoned by an unbelieving woman is not permissible as Christ himself condemns it. Luke 16:18. For a woman it’s harder. Scriptures seem to not give her a way out at all unless the husband dies. Then she’s free of the law of marriage. The man’s is also questionable as though it’s not condemned, it’s not blessed either especially for pastors and deacon’s. It’s expressly told to be a man of one wife and above reproach making a divorce on his record a mark. Though they may not be at fault it’s a very fine line. Be very careful of everything you hear and learn from pastors these days and do you’re own biblical deep study on this. It’s a big deal mentioned a lot in the New Testament by Christ himself.
People used too have more than one wife at the same time. Abraham, Jacob ,so Paul is saying if you want to be a Deacon or a Bishop in the church you should be the husband of one wife. If you are a polygamist you shouldn’t be considered for the position of Deacon or Bishop.
This video assumes a permissive view on remarriage after divorce which is itself an area of contention. Romans 7 and 1 Cor 7 state that marriage is for life, so many believe that marriage is never permitted after divorce, only after the death of a spouse. The one "exception" in Matthew 19 is believed to refer to Jewish bethrothal/engagement, where a partner fornicates. The word for fornicate in Greek is "pornea". Note that the word used here is not the word used for adultery elsewhere in the new testament ("moicheia" if I recall correctly). It is fornication and not adultery in Matthew 19 because in this hypothetical example, the couple is bethrothed, but not married. Betrothals required a divorce to break in Jewish days, unlike today. Everywhere else in the New Testament remarriage after divorce, or marriage to a divorcee is noted as adultery without exception (Matthew 5, Mark 10, Luke 16).
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There is an interesting story about a famous senior Baptist pastor. The senior pastor fired an assistant pastor because he was getting divorced. The son of the senior pastor explained to his father that was not the pastor's fault. His wife was leaving him for another man and there was nothing he could do. The senior pastor didn't want to listen and fired the pastor anyway. A few years later the wife of the senior pastor left him and they got divorced. The son of the senior pastor went to his father and said " now you should resign, following your own standard". The senior pastor could care less, he kept his position and authority. It is just a bunch of hypocrisy out there. Sin is just what the other do. We pick the sins we want to accuse other people but we don't look at our own sins.
Keeping the word of God is lasting even if it costs us in some way or the other.
Keeping the word of God is lasting even if it costs us in some way or the other.
Well well
Is that how the story goes. I always wondered what exactly happened. Great teacher of the Word...
Yikes. Sorry.
I left the Catholic church because i got divorce, my ex wife mistreated and abused me , in the end she asked for divorce and its was a very draining and contentious process. I reach the church for orientation and support , i was a leader in my church, Boys Scout troop , assistant in the sunday bible school, even went to a special seminary for parishioners one day , they remove me from all the leadership positions , they did not gave me a chance to explain , so i left the church and went to a Christian protestant church, i attended for 5 years , one day the pastor of that church asked to read the lectures of that sunday, i remember crying as i was reading the word of God that day , the parishioners thought it was the word of God that moved me to tears, maybe it was, but it was the memory of what I was doing in the Catholic Church I attended since childhood. I was offered the post of assistant pastor, and many people objected because I was not married, I explained, (at least they gave me that opportunity to defend myself), that I had already closed that chapter of my life because I married and divorced, Now they don't want me because I'm not married? I left that meeting very disturbed, very sad. I wondered if I really wanted to keep going to church. 2 weeks passed and then I received the news that they gave me the position. Bottom line, you will never be holy enough before humans.
Beloved, I don't know you in person but God know you. God ministered to me in a revelation when I was on your profile to see things around you,I saw blessings but spiritual attacks holding onto them,in prayers,i saw a woman in the realm of the spirit monitoring and plotting delay in your life, with an evil mirror, and with motive to destroy. But as I speak to you now her time is up, Render hand of favour with Anything you can afford or give to these motherless foundation (Godstime MOTHERLESS FOUNDATION) in kebbi state Nigeria before 2DAYS with faith, as I Rise my hands towards heaven and pray for you they shall serve as point of contact wherever you are, you will receive double portion of grace to excel and total restoration of breakthrough in your life and in the life of your family. Ask for their acct details and help them call the MD in charge of the orphanage to get their details on (WhatsApp or call them now on +2348154975597) tell him I sent you. For it is not by might nor by in power but of the spirit saith the lord (zechariah 4:6). You shall testify to the Glory of God in your life. God bless you in Jesus name
May God give you fellowship, peace and every good fruits. Amen.
this sounds like an emotional story, but the Scripture that supports it???
Humanity is messed up. God is holy. Seek Him now.
@@philipbuckley759 You've made countless assertions on this forum that cannot be supported by Scripture. I've even seen you distort verses in a manner worthy of a George Orwell novel. Give this man a break!
When the spouse dies, so does the marriage covenant.
True. ✴ _A woman is bound to her husband as long as he lives. But if her husband dies, she is free to marry anyone she wishes...._ (1 Corinthians 7: 39; NIV)
@IsaacNussbaum Physical death yes, but what about covenental death?
@@glenhowell6909 That is a new term for me, Glen. I Googled it and nothing came up. What is "covenantal death"?
@@IsaacNussbaum Covenant refers to the agreement made between God and man, i.e. Covenent Theology. It has moral stipulations attached to it. It basically says "I will be your God and you will be my people."
@@glenhowell6909 Thank you, Glen. (My real name is Glen, too.) I looked up Covenant theology (with and "a," by the way) and I couldn't make heads or tails of it. Help me understand how it applies to my 1 Cor. 7: 39 citation.
I’m a man who was in the same situation as the circumstances cited in this video. I was married at 18 as soon as I graduated boot camp in a civil ceremony by the local justice of the peace. It was before I was a believer. A few years and repeated significant adultery by my ex-wife later, we divorced. I later re-married and became a Christian. I’ve been in the faith for almost a decade now, I’ve been married for more than ten years to a wonderful Christian woman and we have a healthy and God centered marriage with three beautiful God fearing children. I was recently asked to take a minor leadership role in the church and I had serious trepidation about it. Ultimately, after prayer and contemplation, I concluded essentially what this man in the video argues. I welcome any criticism or disagreement though, and I understand that it comes from a place of genuine care for the well being of the church and society.
It is as if it your situation was used as an example at 04:57 where he considers a leadership role to be permissible. I agree with him and your admission of trepidation demonstrates that you do not take God and His written word lightly.
this goes to the heart, of the MDR.....you say you have been married.....the Bible seems to say, you have been in adultery, for X years....
@@philipbuckley759 How has he been in adultery? I don't see that in the Bible myself, but that by Matthew 19 and 1 Corinthians 7, that man is no longer bound by any covenant to his former wife, because she broke that covenant in adultery, behaved like an unbeliever, and wanted to leave.
@@zacharienelsen7973 bad translations leads to bad teaching....try not under bondage or not enslaved....not anything akin to not bound....a term that the author had just used....
Before Christ is in death. InChrist is new life, washed by the blood of Christ. What and how it’s is done must be under God and through Gods Holy work. One marriage inChrist for sure and when there’s a death then can be married if (need) to be married. Other then that dedicate one’s life to Christ fully.
I think this requirement speaks to the prohibition against polygamy. It's perhaps too far of a reach to introduce divorce into the discussion.
That should be obvious, but unfortunately some Christians like to create additional rules in order to puff themselves up and tear others down.
It is simy amazing that as a church our view towards marriage and divorce is such that we keep trying to find loopholes to say things are ok. Pretty soon we will be able to divorce for any and every reason. Oh wait.. we are there!!!
I think you completely missed the point of the video. He's not advocating divorce, but simply discussing whether or not divorce permanently disqualifies people from leadership. I agree that many do advocate for divorce, but you shouldn't make a blanket sweeping statement accusing most churches doing this. This is just being cynical for the point of cynicism and offers little to build up the body of Christ.
Exactly. How on earth is this guy or ANYONE ELSE for that matter blatantly disregarding Jesus' own words AND Paul's, written under the inspiration of the Spirit of Jesus???
"But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except on the ground of sexual immorality, makes her commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery (Matt 5:32, also Matt 19:9)."
And Paul's 2nd witness, "To the married I give this command (NOT I, BUT THE LORD): A wife MUST NOT separate from her husband. But if she does, she MUST REMAIN UNMARRIED OR else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife. (1 Cor 7:10-11)."
What am I missing from these two witnesses, BOTH from the Lord Jesus???
@@lockhartsc agree
sgt muffin if the point was to discuss as you say it should have been a short video he should have just said yes you are disqualified if you have a second or third wife and your first wife is still living.
@@jimmdavis8197 fornication, is not sexual immorality...as sex outside of marriage is adultery....
It's terrible to see a man that I know being denied even the option of ever being a Deacon because of what his ex wife did to him. He is a remarkable respectable faithful man and she cheated on him and left him for another woman's husband. So now the good guy is being, not just victim shamed, but victim punished.
what can one say, the Bible does not make a provision for such a case, and as such, we can not either....
JHL: Exactly my situation. People in church have encouraged me to be a deacon. Except 25+ years ago, my first wife left me for another guy. I have been happily remarried to a Christian woman for the past 22.5 yrs. People stumble, apologize and say, sorry, I didn't know that. There are some horrendous legalists commenting here, only wishing to throw more rocks at innocent, betrayed people May their reward suffer for their lack of compassion. This "no-exception" viewpoint has hurt so many people. This viewpoint came out of the Catholic Church and sadly, we still have some of the Inquisitors commenting on this video.
@@philipbuckley759 Except biblical widowhood and a different interpretation of that verse. Some interpret it to mean no polygamy, others interpret it as not throwing your current wife away just to get another... then another then another, and then there are others that think it means that if you marry a sinner and they sin against you then you should be punished until eternity as a second class church member.
He can still serve the Lord, just with out the title deacon. The Lord see’s the heart but people can’t. So just to maintain the reputation of the church he must step down, but that doesn’t mean he can not serve GOD, if he has the heart let him serve.
@@Seafarer62 if you were divorced, where is the Biblical justification, for a remarriage...
Divorce is still the unforgivable sin in some churches. What is a man to do with his gift of teaching/leadership/pastoring if his wife wants to leave him? Is he "done" as my brother told me I was, when I was divorced by my wife of 16 years who "had plans that did not include you "? The Gospel is all about reconciliation - which she rejected - and renewal, otherwise why do we teach it? She did not want me so I needed to find how I could use my gifts in serving the Lord. I was asked to serve as an elder for 10 years before I relented - I now serve and also am now also teaching adult Sunday school. I have been remarried for 17 years to a fine Christian woman and we work and serve the Lord - as a new family. One wife at a time. The other thought I have is some of those who have never been divorced seem to feel they have a superior standing with God - while their home life may be hell on earth, they still remain married. I think divorce might be better in some cases - even for Christians and have a
n honest life instead of thinking they are fooling God and everyone else.
divorce is not unforgivable.....but in the adultery, of remarriage, to be forgiven one has to forsake the sin.....too often people want adultery to be changed to a valid covenant....by something called repentance.....
@@philipbuckley759 Totaly agree, theres many what are livin bad lifes inside of the 4 walls in home, and in the church are dramatizing are good!
100% Philip......100%
Well said. Nobody loves divorce. Nobody loves prisons, bank foreclosures, or the city dump either. But like divorce, these things exist for a very good reason.
You'll get a lot of comments in videos such as this from those who advocate the position I call the "Marriage Permanence Heresy". They will often use Matt 19:6, Romans 7:2-3, Mark 10:5-12, and 1 Cor 7:10-11 to give the illusion of support for this destructive heresy. But none of these verses support their position. What they are doing is akin to using Luke 18:22 to argue that a rich man cannot be saved unless he forfeits his wealth.
I've even heard people argue that it's a sin to listen to secular music or to drink alcohol, even in moderation. In all cases, these legalistic positions presume things in Scripture that are simply not so.
Just so we are clear: the Marriage Permanence Heresy is NOT the goal or ideal that marriage be for life. Nor is it the rejection of divorce for frivolous reasons. This heresy is the claim that there is no divorce allowed or recognized by God even for compelling reasons (domestic violence, drug use, etc). Some extreme versions of this teaching hold that a remarried person is ineligible for salvation unless they divorce their current spouse! If this heresy isn't blasphemous and slanderous to God, then pray tell what is!?
@@dh605x in 1 Cor 7....divorce yes, options...reconcile or remain single....
When you start making these exceptions then you're getting in dangerous territories.
Exactly
Malachi 2:16, which states that God hates divorce. ... God hates divorce. Yes, he does, but read on and understand what is being said. The scripture goes on to say what God hates about divorce is the violent tearing of flesh that occurs when two people divorce. Never does he say he hates divorcees. That is the judgement of man. That follows suit with the flesh. So all these exceptions are bogus. Just read the scripture and the conversation is over.
@@roxineus Not to mention God himself is a divorcee.
@@derrickpurdy7011 how is that? I did not know that. Where does is it say that in the Bible?
@@roxineus Jeremiah 3 (specifically verse 8).
HE CAN BE DIVORCED BUT NOT REMARRIED, BECAUSE SCRIPTURE SAYS IF HIS WIFE IS STILL ALIVE AND HE REMARRIES HE COMMITS ADULTERY.
Where exactly does it say that?
sgt muffin GOOGLE pastor JENNINGS, "marrage and divorce",i will EXPLAIN and SHOW you the scriptures in highlighting detail.
Well that's just stupid.
Angelus Irae what is just STUPID??
Don't attempt to quote if you don't know the quote. Like that's basic.
Dr. Schreiner, I watch these helpful videos almost everyday. These wise teachings help me to examine scriptures more thoroughly than I would have without watching them. There are many times I tend to make hasty conclusions without seeing the overall scriptural teaching on the marriage. Thank you!
take all the time you want....but Scripture is clear....take care of your home....
Divorce isn’t a unforgivable sin.
@@r0b0gam3r9 Marriage, is the unforgivable sin...
@@r0b0gam3r9 Divorse is seperation [ not good].The disaster comes in the re-marrriage because that is adultery. That is forgivable too but you cannot KEEP the object of your sin.[the unlawful spouse]that marriage IS NOT RECOGNIZED BY GOD. Herod was warned by John the Baptist but he would not hear him. He has been incarcerated in hell for 2000 years awaiting the GREAT WHITE THRONE JUDGEMENT. He should have listened to the Holy Spirit but he preferred listening to devils like many that read this looking for ways to continue in adultery.
Just learning the Bible with You Brother. Well done. God bless You so much.
I think it depends on the circumstances that led up to the divorce. If the wife cheated on her husband, then I wouldn’t disqualify him as a pastor. If the husband committed the adultery, then he is permanently disqualified from the pulpit, simply because it’s a trust issue
Those are just a couple of examples that I can think of off the top of my head
could a divorced person be called one that managed his family well....
It would certainly raise some questions. Divorce is almost always the fault of both sides. But one could argue that there are cases where a man does everything that can reasonably expected of him and his wife or his children choose to do things of their own free will that nothing he could have done would have prevented. In that case, his "management" might be fine and yet he is still divorced. Granted, that can only be true if one holds that there is such a thing as free will. If there isn't free will and God is the cause of all divorce, then we might be able to simplify it and say that divorce is a means by which God shows that a man is disqualified from being a pastor.
Amen brother! On the money
Stuff happens. You can manage a family well and still get a divorce. The passage is meaning the present, not the past. People wanna think in their own understanding and not realize we are in the age of grace.
@@TheChurchIsLikenUntoTheMoon I would love to hear. How does a man manage his family well ( The way God has directed) and still end up in divorce. So u are saying Gods word has error. I believe Gods word is perfect and if followed correctly from the beginning will lead a man without error. So if a man ends up in divorce it is because of his errors not Gods. And if he ends up in divorce it's his fault for deviating from the truth and not managing his house well. And if a man doesn't manage his family well he is not dammed to hell. He is saved by the grace of God like u said. But he is disqualified from serving as a pastor. A pastor MUST be without reproach. No EXCEPTION. Same as a drunk can't stand in the pulpit an preach to the congregation about not drinking. A pastor that has been divorced can't stand in the pulpit and preach a biblical sermon on marriage. And preach against divorce because he is no longer beyond reproach. This is my thoughts but my mind is open to a biblical argument. If u can change my mind using scripture mind mind is open.
@@TheChurchIsLikenUntoTheMoon All that matters is what sayeth the scriptures. What does the bible say.
Where can you find in the scripture that you can remarry after being divorce
no where.. these so called schollars are compromising Gods word.. this answer can be very simple and to the point. but becausr of these kinds of answrrs people who are church goers fillup their bellies with it .. and resort to their personal feelings..
Read 1st Corinth chapter 7...Yahshua also speaks to the Pharisee about divorce and adultery. There's no where I've seen the justifies a Pastor/Shepherds to divorce and remarry and remain in position(.)
@@yahoshuashemayahsarel6277 no more marriage after divorce
Yea you cannot however there are other options such as separate however the wife cannot take a new husband but the husband can take another wife so long as he did not divorce the separated wife.
@@seanleonard8067 you are totally wrong . give scriptures not your opinion.. way off bro. we are not Muslims... we are children of the living God . read luke 16 :18...ronans 7:1-3,1st Corinthian 7:39... gen 2:23-26 two become one flesh and then go to sleep. it's past your bedtime... you need some rest homey... .
Surely each case has to be judged individually. If a brother had a wife who simply decided to leave him for another man it seems very harsh to disqualify him from eldership.
one has to run their own home our house.....if a spouse departs, then something went wrong....ergo he is not qualified....
I think God is more gracious and forgiving than that. There may well be many 'undivorced' pastors whose marriages are a sham but they continue as pastors. A divorced or remarried man who has repented of any fault and has had some years of blameless life and who is gifted and called by God should be considered for appointment in my view.
@@philipbuckley759 Philipp I really hope that your marriage is not one of 50% of marriages today that end in split...mostly initiated by women. I REFUSE to judge anyone who's spouse has of their own free will / God's decree (for calvinists) decided to abandon their partner or fall from faith. It takes two people to start a street fight.....but sometimes they both wanna fight...sometimes an innocent victim gets jumped. Would you blame victims of crime for being victims?
@@rodmitchell8576 repenting changes adultery, to a valid covenant....how is that....could a same sex couple do the same....
@@Dilley_G45 what does the text say.....it makes no provision, for something called the innocent party....
Finally, someone who has a fair grasp of what Paul actually taught.
I used to go to a church that believed divorce was the unpardonable sin. The pastor was never divorced. The 3 elders were unmarried 20 or so year old boys that still lived with their mothers. Only one even had a job. Very few adult men in the church, and they had all been divorced. I don't think that is the biblical intent either. Either the Blood of Jesus covers sin or it does not.
admit the sin, quit the sin......both are necessary for forgiveness....
I'm a recovering alcoholic with 3 years of sobriety and now I'm considered one of the leaders of my church
Awesome testimony God is so good and his mercy is great will you pray for my Son Eric to be forever free from drinking
Word of encouragement:
1). Galatians 2:20
2). And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.
Luke 9:62 KJV
bible.com/bible/1/luk.9.62.KJV
Amen Travis, May the spirit of Christ lead you into all righteousness.... "Crucify your flesh in Christ. Live by the Faith of the Son of God. Make sure you dont look back"
Out of curiosity, “considered one of the leaders”, or an actual voted-upon elder/pastor?
@@subjecttochrist 6:00
Thank you for your insight. That the divorce rates in the church today equal that of the world is very troubling. Sadly, I know believers who are on their 3rd and 4th marriages!! Realizing this, the question that I struggle with in opening these crucial leadership positions to divorced men is how would a pastor/elder with a divorce in their past be able to credibly counsel believers Biblically to hang in and work through marital difficulties when they themselves, for whatever reason, were not been able to? It seems to me that there are many areas of service in the church where this qualification does not apply. A man can certainly teach, preach and evangelize without a pulpit.
I think as he stated, the church itself should evaluate his reputation and character, and the period of time that he has had that!
Did Israel not commit adultury against God? Many generations did not turn back to Him. In this day and age the said can be said against anyone who does no accept the gospel. Therefore, how can God counsel us on relationship when He couldn't solve all of His...
Obviously, it takes two to make a marriage, but sometimes it's only one to make a divorce. Therefore, one spouse could be perfect in their relationship (like God is) and still end up divorced, (and none of us are perfect).
The divorce rates of Christians are NOT the same. It’s a misinterpretation of some Barna data.
@@lockhartsc WOWZERS- That hit HARD. No idea why I never pictured it from this perspective. New paradigm for me.
sgt muffin And yet look at what justification of divorce has done to the church. Divorce argument can be swapped with the LGBT movement which last I heard has helped Twitter to relax its policy on art of nude children. if you want to defend that too, may Jesus have mercy on you.
The world Paul preached in was steep in Paganism, and having more than one wife is not the notably most recent idea of Joseph Smith/Mormonism. Yet the part of greatest difficulty was about the requirements for pastors (elders), bishops, spoken of as if men such as these, or men such as Theologians/Seminary Professors/Pastors today were themselves all so mature as if they were not going through the process of Sanctification (which is in the hands of Christ, 1 Cor 1:30) like the rest of us. This was my perception. News flash: we are all in the same boat, and even if some are at the front of the boat, they still are in the process of being conformed to the image of Jesus Christ, for no one ‘has arrived’, and Paul said that he himself had not attained. We learn from the HG (1 Cor 3:13-14, 1John 3:20,27 John 14:26), so let no man teach you, but the HG and the KJV. How much we ought to expect from a Pastor would be a touch more than any regular Christian, and to ask for much more would seem too high expectations. Most place Pastors in pedestals, and by that most avoid doing the work of studying to find themselves approved unto GOD, as men should study.
Jose Fernandez-Leon well said God should be the only teacher preacher we listen to period.
I know as a man I am 100% responsible for my divorce. I take ownership of the failures. This drives me crazy I wasn't saved till after my divorce. I was a addict and alcoholic. I really feel like my hands are tied as far as what I can do in church.
john barnette brother this doesn’t apply to you. As you where divorced prior to being saved. Remember Paul was a murderer before he was saved and God used him mightily
Me too man.... I've lived a filthy life in the past and I have 2 children out of wedlock but now I feel a strong urge to go out and preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ ...but that seems like a problem.
john barnette sorry to hear that. My first wife divorced me when I returned from Iraq. Yea, I had anger issues but she wasn’t supportive and willing to work things out. I went to counseling for my anger.
My second wife divorced me while I was working on my Masters in Bible College. Friends attempted to talk to her. They tried to lead her through the Bible. She told them she knew what the Bible said but she didn’t care.
Now I’m remarried, six years now. I’m a Chaplain in a hospital. Churches won’t hire me due to the divorce and remarriage issue. Two problems is find in the church; biblical illiteracy and full of Pharisees.
@@isaiah53apologetics56 thanks for sharing that.
@Danny Murdach Thanks. Awesome to be clean-sober and separate from the filthy way I used to live. I'm still very ashamed. Just would like to do more for God. Prayers brother.
"Raise your children up in the way they should go, and they shall not depart from it"
This is not a commandment.
It is a statement of fact.
If a man does not love his wife and children (Love as action, many actions, as in Corinthians, not emotion ) they will go in they way they have been kept, and not depart from it.
Therefore a pastor whose wife has left, and children steeped in/imprisoned for immorality, should not be trusted to be an elder in the congregation, because he left his first estate (his marriage) unkept, and he did not Love them.
I love my children emotionally for sure, but I sure am guilty of not loving them by action.
How therefore can he prepare the Body for the marriage supper of the Lamb?
A man will always be a husband and father first, before pastor and elder. His family is still his responsibility above the congregation. Serving God will never cause a man to abandon is wife and children, nor them to abandon him.
He must have good fruit worthy of righteous judgement. A man clearly guided by the hand of the Holy Spirit.
This is not what I "believe ".
That is what I know to be true, given by the Word of God.
@@leebartoletti4651 when they are old.....I now know what that means.....
Is it what people say or what the Bible says?? Let's not be looking for people's suggestions when it comes to marriage. It's what God says in the Word of God,the Bible,that stands, period!!
I think we, (the church leadership "we") need to do a better job of finding out how the man in doing in the home! We must guard against the master manipulator and controller who is sinning against his family daily and rules over them, yet fooling the church they only see occasionally. This is how we put churches as risk. This is how children of ministry leaders leave the faith! The word "exemplary" is a good standard. Not perfection, but blameless in the areas of husbanding and parenting. Self control in the areas of anger, porn, alcohol, food, spending, gambling and the like. There must be an environment of no retribution for the family to be honest and men who are unwilling to let the spouse or children be interviewed separately, are likely unqualified to lead, and you just do not yet know why...
The chain of command starts with God, who then chooses an apostle who then chooses pastors and bishops an so on. A man cannot simply choose to be a pastor as his own house must 1st be in order.
Amen. We can disagree about what that entails. It's still a good standard.
What so many in the church fail to understand and the fail to look at is full biblical text. They like to nit-pick Scripture to justify their views.
Marriage take two people to work. One can end it for any reason which is basically selfish. Paul prohibits Christians from divorcing their nonbelieving spouse. However, if the nonbeliever wish to leave Paul tells the Christians to let them go and they are no longer enslaved. To be no longer enslaved means to be free.
Today’s society assumes if a couple divorces the fault is on the husband. A man can be a leader in his home but for some reason the woman can choose to no longer live under those conditions. We have free will.
Husbands cause a lot of issues, failed leadership and lack of self control and lack of love.
A. Smith can you be any more selfish? Can you project any more?
That is the very attitude on why marriages fail, self seeking. Marriage is a two way road. It isn't 50/50. It should be 100/100. Some days it doesn't feel that way but not matter how bad either person feel about the other love covers a multitude of sins and hurt feelings.
Jamie Preece can you tell Paul says this in the Bible?
roxineus Paul tells husbands to be an example of Christ to their wife. This is said in a society that is predominantly male focused. Women were lesser citizens. What Paul calls for is husbands to humble themselves, to be more like servants than masters.
A man can do just that and his wife can still leave him.
Jamie Preece Thanks for explaining. Yet, I was asking where did you read this? What verse?
If the divorced man is truly a man of God, he will serve humbly elsewhere in the church. Just the status in and of itself can be a stumbling block to many believers and nonbelievers as he preaches behind the pulpit. A godly humble man will not put himself in a position that will hinder the flock. He can serve in so many other areas beside the pulpit such missionaries, church elders/ deacons, youth pastors etc. If he still feels called to be a pastor, then he should really evaluate the heart as the heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked. His calling should not be based solely on an internal feeling but also an external calling by being recognized by well established leaders. Pastoring a church is a serious job with serious consequences when not done properly. James 3:1 warns us "Not many of you should become teachers, my fellow believers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly" Yet we have many people in the role of pastors because they "felt"in their heart called by God. I think this video does an excellent job explaining why there must be an external validation to be called as pastors of a church: ruclips.net/video/UpG5qxgpTOY/видео.html
The way you write is very easy to understand...
You really need to go back to Bible basics.
Why would God call a man to be a good church leader. Give him a wife. Wife gets greedy in her heart divorce her husband. Then "we" all say this man is not fit to lead the church from the front. But he is now demoted, but good enough to be a mini pastor over the young people. Who could lead a stray the young folk.
Surely it's God who calls us and alots out the gifts to us. Not the ideas of well wishers?
@Marcos Ross Maybe you did not understand the post. Regardless of who divorced who, the status in and of itself can become a stumbling block to believers and nonbelievers alike. I strongly believe a man of God will not put himself in a position that could hinder the flock in anyway. For a man to give up the pulpit to serve elsewhere in the body of christ is certainly not a demotion. What an insult to the body of christ. Every role in the body of christ has a specific job and just as much important. A true man of God will know when to humbly step down and serve in other areas with humility and submission to our Lord.
I’d have to disagree with his conclusion. It negates what Christ taught on marriage in Matthew 19 and ripple effect that it can have in one’s life and ministry. There are offices that some are not qualified for because of different reasons, and we can disqualify ourselves by our sin. Moses could not enter the holy land because he sinned. We can hurt our ministry and the ministry of the church when we “too hastily lay on hands,” continue in a ministry position after being disqualified, or bending the qualifications because we know someone. Yes, we can have great people serving in positions other than deacon, pastor, or elder. The qualifications must be adhered to or else risk polluting the office.
I agree totally
But Moses was qualified to be the leader of God's people. The consequences are God's prerogative. If God calls a person into leadership no man can disqualify him or her. Think!
@@rjmallord6849 and how would one know they are qualified? God physically chose Moses yet ask us as Believers to choose these men by qualifications. It is arrogant to think otherwise. Too many horrible people never meant to lead are in these positions, putting aside the husband of one wife, all of the other non interpretive qualifications are very difficult as well and I would say 90% of pastors do not fit within those. That is a problem.
@@rjmallord6849 Moses disqualified himself by disobeying God. This is not is reference to salvation but in serving. You can disqualify yourself from serving for a whole number of reasons. That does not mean that God cannot use you anymore. You might not serve in that office anymore, but God can use you in different ways.
@@ASmith-jn7kf Hello, if one believes themselves to be called by God then the proper response is to obey. It will be up to others to make the choice as to whether or not they will follow. Men cannot know for certain what is in the heart of another. King David from an outsiders point of view was not that great of a person but he was special in the eyes of God.
I strongly disagree. Being a pastor is an important position. Your personal life should show that you respect marriage and women. Some pastors have been married and remarried 2-3 times. There personal lives are a mess. How can they advise others? Remember, Jesus never mentioned abortion or homosexuality, but he gave extensive instructions about divorce. This is an important issue.
The Bible is clear on reasons of divorce, one of them being abandonment. Under those reasons of legitimate divorce, that person can remarry and be considered a man of one woman and therefore ascend to the role of pastor, all other factors being considered.
@@mikeh7256 Ok, but a pastor has been abandoned two or three times?
@@timothythompson4036 Probably not, lol. But once? Abandonment? I can't see the disqualification.
You can serve as a pastor divorced but you can't remarry because then your living in adultery theres a different from committing a sin and living in .you must repent you cant live in willful sin
1 Timothy 3:4-5 would in my opinion disqualify him in most cases as serving as pastor
Before addressing this topic either way the most important thing we need to understand is that marriage is an earthly covenant between one man and one woman. It is a gift from God and he defines what it is: the two become "one flesh" and are only separated by death. The only time Scripture says divorce is an option (though not required) is when Christ says you may in cases of adultery and when Paul says if a non-believer leaves a believer because of their faith. For the marriage covenant itself God never differentiates between if it is two believers, two unbelievers, or one of each. A person getting saved does not change the marriage covenant. Jesus said if a man divorces his wife and she remarries then he is causing her to commit adultery. How unfair does that seem to our modern-day Western mindset? The husband is the one who divorces yet the wife is still considered as adulterous even though she didn't initiate the divorce? Yet, those are the words of Christ himself, the God who gave marriage to mankind. It's not because Jesus is being unfair, but because we have too low a view of what marriage really is. We are products of our Western culture that has systematically destroyed any notion that God is the one who ordains marriage, not earthly governments. The other sins listed on the qualifications of an elder do not deal with breaking a conventional relationship. That is why having them in your past does not disqualify you.
EXACTLY!!! How on earth is this guy or ANYONE ELSE for that matter blatantly disregarding Jesus' own words AND Paul's, written under the inspiration of the Spirit of Jesus??? Jesus draws a CLEAR line:
"But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except on the ground of sexual immorality, makes her commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery (Matt 5:32, also Matt 19:9)."
And Paul's 2nd witness, "To the married I give this command (NOT I, BUT THE LORD): A wife MUST NOT separate from her husband. But if she does, she MUST REMAIN UNMARRIED OR else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife. (1 Cor 7:10-11)."
What am I missing from these two witnesses, BOTH from the Lord Jesus???
fornication is the exception....and when the covenant has been established it is no longer an option...
Paul was talking about men who were married to multiple wifes, at the same time
Nope
@@markthompson788 suit yourself, by the way how common was divorce in 66ad? Paul was ministering to the Gentiles and polygomy was common. While Polygomy is not condemed in scriptures ( Leviticus Chapter 11), Paul was trying to be practical, how could the leader of a group keep up with a bunch of wives and the needs of his congregation.
@@JoshDavisfarmbureau Thank you for your response. My understanding is that one could also be translated as first, which would imply not divorced. I would think that would make sense. If a man can't lead a family, how could he lead a church family.
However, I agree with everything you said, and I can't claim to know exactly everything that Paul was contextualizing. The one wife context you present makes perfect sense as well.
That's unlikely considering polygamy was illegal under both Roman and Jewish law at the time he was alive
@@mkirules interesting. So you think he was referring to Divorce? Also, do you think Jews needed licence to marry, or could the temple govern that part of Jewish life?
Paul was writing to a polygamous community, Timothy was a Bishop at Corinth so a husband of two or three wives could not be in leadership in the church, its that simple
So the Bible just allows for all type of divorce and remarriage huh trade in your turkey for some ham lol
Timothy was at Ephesus ( 1 tim 1:3)
Ephesus was under roman rule where polygamy was already illegal. Paul didnt need to address polygamy. In Romans 7 and 1 Cor 7 he already says marriage is binding until death and gives no room for remarriage anywhere.
@@nateroc147 I think some of the details that led to your conclusion are flawed, according to wikipedia its said in Rome and Greece Polygamy was prohibited but in the Bible there's evidence that it was being practiced, Read with me 1 Corinthians 5:1-5, the bible does not say this guy slept with his mother but with his father's wife and these were believers, it simply means the father was polygamous, Genesis 49:4 another example of a son who slept with his father's wife, that's from a polygamous family. so again the reason for church leaders to have one wife is the spiritual order of representing THE BRIDE AND THE GROOM, Christ and his Church
@@messibooks6530 The lust of the flesh are adultery,fornication. Nobody is denying polygamy existed. Polygamy was already illegal, so for him to address you couldn't be a criminal breaking the law (polygamy)to be a pastor is highly unlikely. Again timothy was in Ephesus not corinth. We are addressing that wasn't what paul was talking about.. Jesus dealt with the same circumstances in matt 19:3-6 He takes them back 4,000 years to the beginning. Showing God's ordained marriage plan is eternal. It transcends time, relevance, culture, opinion, or interpretation. The 2 are bound until death does them part. Paul follows up in romans and Corinthians and says not I but. GOD. commands you are bound until death.If you separate remain unmarried or be reconciled to your husband. If Jesus and Paul address that you cannot remarry until your spouse dies and that is God's law why would breaking that be ok and you be appointed to a leadership position? Other qualifications are above reproach? Another qualification one who knows how to rule his own house? How are you above reproach with multiple divorce and remarriage? How are you ruling your own house well if you have 3 separate families? How is ruling your own house well shuttling multiple kids to multiple women? Thats worldly thinking, God doesn't expect his sanctified appointed shepards of whole flocks to be engaged in that. God is holy. To throw out the Word as a whole and say he was talking about polygamy doesn't fit with the other scriptures in context.
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where does it mention being young at marriage is an excuse for divorce....
Philip Buckley you realize that the Greek says “man of one woman”, which could or could not imply “wife.” So Paul could be forbidding polygamy instead of multiple marriages. That’s why this is a nuanced issue.
Don’t let the dunning-Kruger effect hit you too hard.
Right in the C of E's brand.
@@Iamwrongbut not alot of polygamy among Roman societies so as Paul to address.
@@tylermayeux6124 Roman is used loosely in reference Roman empire. As I might say America in reference to a city in Nebraska
He skipped a part; doesn't the word state that when a man divorces his wife HE CAUSES HER to commit adultery? Hmm.
Hopefully everyone who is commenting is in a successful marriage. I just have a question what about those who endure abuse whether physical or mental or those who married someone that commits a crime and is now serving a life sentence or what about the husband or wife that keeps sleeping around and has contracted HIV. Should believers stay married in these situations? Is it so black and white that believers should just stay in any type of marriage just because even unto death? Is that Gods will. Or can believers make mistakes and be redeemed by the blood of Jesus just like sinners? Just a question anybody who has experienced marriage knows that your spouse has free will and you can follow every biblical standard and still end up on divorce. I believe it’s up to God and His spirit to decide who is qualified and who is not.
Ask Jesus
the Bible gives two options, for the divorced....reconcile, and not if possible, or remain unmarried...
I personally, don't understand why this is an issue; what I'm beginning to understand, is where the confusion originates: it originates from Seminary.
Our Lord made it clear, that divorce and re-marriage is adultery.
Paul also made it clear what The Lord commands, and what he (Paul) was allowed (to teach) by permission. The parameters are clearly defined.
If a "Pastor" steps out of these boundaries, then he is in a state of apostasy: how then can his teachings be unbiased? The lines then become blurred, and we have, what we have today: a Church in confusion, and largely in a state of apostasy. If we eliminate these boundaries, how then is it defined? ...by our feelings? Or by a Seminary professor?
There is an important reason why The Lord has set these boundaries; God Himself has subjected Himself to the bonds of marriage with regards to Israel. His heart is not hardened towards Israel, but remains open to reconciliation, and will not re-marry until the bonds of marriage have been completely met.
This is why the sun, moon and stars are darkened before He comes, this is the sign to the entire world, that Israel has ceased to be a Nation, forever (Jer.31:35-36), and He is free to re-marry...which He does immediately following: which is the translation of our bodies incorruptible, and immortal. The two become one flesh, and so shall we ever be with The Lord.
I was just telling someone at church the other day that we've lived to a time where a man can could fill out a resume that simply says "husband of one wife, not a brawler, not covetous, not a striker, not given to filthy lucre, not given to wine, wife is in subjection, kids aren't unruly, have good report of them that are without, and ruleth well my own house" and turn it in and some deacon would say "well we liked your resume but we didn't read anywhere that it said you have a degree from a Calvinist school so we're not gonna consider you anymore". But then some guy could turn in a resume that says "divorced, brawler, covetous, striker, money hungry, drinker, trashy wife, brat kids, terrible reputation outside the church, unruly home life, degree from Calvinist seminary" and they'd say "VOTE HIM IN NOW"! I know that might be hyperbole but the point is that this video is hypocritical in the sense that the man talking here would never vote for a guy as pastor of a baptist church that didn't have a degree whether he fit GOD'S qualifications to a tee or not. The modern church is no different. We've disregarded God's qualifiers and created our own.
Read the Bible well The Lord didn't say what you wrote.
Big difference between Separation and Divorce.
Jesus spoke on separation ,Paul spoke on divorce
Separation (bride price not returned) and remarriage = Adultery
But
Divorce (Genuine divorce, not premeditated ) = remarriage is possible
The mistake was that they (Jews) took separation to mean divorce
So they Put-Away their wives without a certificate of divorce which before God = adultery
@@Esbamken ... Interesting, that we are always looking for loopholes.
Bottom line...it's of the flesh, and of a hard heart. If there was love, none of this would matter.
@@Esbamken Mike Winger has a complete teaching, on this.....divorce, is....well, divorce....
The Pastor committed adultery, first wife divorce him. He remarries and still pastoring. The church never contacted the first wife to find the truth. The pastor told a lie to the church and said she wouldn't follow him in the ministry. Not only did he commit adultery, he lied to the church why he was divorced.
Agree. Also, that pastor is showing people “I can leave my wife, abandoned my kids, start a new family, and still do Gods work!” Which means he couldn’t keep his house in order.
Once you start complicating the Bible to fit your narrative... this is where it gets sinful. The Bible is simple. To be a pastor, you must be a man of one wife. This means under NO circumstance can you have more than 1 wife during your entire life. Don't read words that are not there and create it to read what the world wants. The Bible is complete, and God said what He wanted said.
The Bible is clear on reasons of divorce, one of them being abandonment. Under those reasons of legitimate divorce, that person can remarry and be considered a man of one woman and therefore ascend to the role of pastor, all other factors being considered.
divorce and remarriage means you are living in adultery....not that you committed adultery..a one time event....
Ideally, it's a one time event. Reality is more complex.
@@pfzht sorry I dont understand.....if it is continuous then one would have to leave that relationship.....and not then why make a big deal out of it....if one can repent and remain in what the Bible called adultery, it is akin to changing a sin, into a non sin, with no change, on our part...
@@philipbuckley759 relationships end sometimes and differences can be found to be irreconcilable. It's not hard to understand.
@@pfzht and it is not a Biblical reason, for divorce and remarriage....can you say....wed lock....
@@philipbuckley759 salvation isn't on the chopping block over divorce and anyone who says it is doesn't understand salvation, period.
I’m in the category of divorcing prior to salvation. My first marriage lasted five years. I got married again two years later. My wife and I was saved by God’s grace four years after that. I was called to the ministry about two years ago. I’ve been faithfully married to the same woman twenty one years next month. I know it will be an uphill climb for me to apply to a church that list the qualifications of 2 Timothy and Titus in the first few lines of the posting of the position. Each situation is different and situation should be evaluated in light of scripture and the details of the minister.
nowhere, in Scripture does it excuse an non believer....once again John the Baptist lost his life, over this very issue....oh dont worry...repent and you can stay in your adultery....
What about Paul?
@@billion86 ???
It's cut and dry and yet people spend hours debating what people think or feel...NO LISTEN AND FOLLOW SCRIPTURE!!!
you need to read the scriptures really carefully and with the help of the holy spirit, john the Baptist didn't die because of what you said it was because the king took his brothers wife and john the Baptist pointed out his sin!!!!!
No, if you repent and God forgives you, you can stay married to your second spouse and you are not living in adultery. Yes, you committed adultery by divorcing and remarrying, but after genuine repentance and forgiveness, you can remain with your second spouse with God's blessing. People who have multiple marriages are usually consumed by sexual attraction and are not genuine in their repentance.
Totally agree with this interpetation and contextualization.
How on earth is this guy or ANYONE ELSE for that matter blatantly disregarding Jesus' own words AND Paul's, written under the inspiration of the Spirit of Jesus???
"But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except on the ground of sexual immorality, makes her commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery (Matt 5:32, also Matt 19:9)."
And Paul's 2nd witness, "To the married I give this command (NOT I, BUT THE LORD): A wife MUST NOT separate from her husband. But if she does, she MUST REMAIN UNMARRIED OR else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife. (1 Cor 7:10-11)."
What am I missing from these two witnesses, BOTH from the Lord Jesus???
@@jimmdavis8197 fornication....
An elder must be blameless, faithful to his wife, a man whose children believe and are not open to the charge of being wild and disobedient.
A drunker is a person who is addicted to drinking liquor and is under its power and control. It doesn't mean a person who drinks a glass of wine is unable to be a leader. Is he subject to it or is he subject to the will and plan of God and Christ.
So my question is this:
What does this mean for single pastors? They don't have an exemplary marriage.
I mean, Paul does say that if you control yourself it is better to stay single...
he said, to marry.....if one leaves the marriage, then the options are to reconcile, or to remain single.....not to reconcile, if possible....and then remarry...
Well, if you go back to Adam's creation. Eve was only created because God saw that Adam was lonely. So what if you are not lonely, and do not need any form of companionship?
I don't think it's a sin for single people to be pastors. Some people think it's a sin for single people to be pastors due to the Bible verse in 1 Timothy 3 requiring pastors to be the husband of one wife. The Greek word for "husband of one wife" means one woman man, someone who's not an adulterer, someone who's not a player, someone who's not a womanizer, etc. Paul, Timothy, and Titus were pastors of churches, and they were never married, and God approved of them being pastors.
There is actually a fourth view. That Paul was saying the man of one wife because of the polygamy that took place in the OT. Solomon had mutiple wives and concubines. The time and energy needed to be spent on mutiple wives takes time away from ministry.
Plus it was two from the beginning (Adam and Eve). Polygamy may have been allowed as way to repopulate.
Great explanation though.
True, but one still has to address the requirement to manage his household well. Also, except for in the case of fornication, divorce and remarriage could be viewed as polygamy.
@@TimothyFish exactly.
How on earth is this guy or ANYONE ELSE for that matter blatantly disregarding Jesus' own words AND Paul's, written under the inspiration of the Spirit of Jesus???
"But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except on the ground of sexual immorality, makes her commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery (Matt 5:32, also Matt 19:9)."
And Paul's 2nd witness, "To the married I give this command (NOT I, BUT THE LORD): A wife MUST NOT separate from her husband. But if she does, she MUST REMAIN UNMARRIED OR else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife. (1 Cor 7:10-11)."
What am I missing from these two witnesses, BOTH from the Lord Jesus???
@@jimmdavis8197 exactly
No. Divorce disqualifies you as or to be a pastor. You can serve God faithfully in many other areas. I served God as a firefightrer-paramedic in places where doors were closed to others. God uses us in ways we don't realize until we in the midst of it, at times.
Agree
Love this - it expresses a clear heart to serve wherever God places you without ego of having a particular title. All one body with work to do, but not all the same parts. Many women can resonate with this since they are typically excluded from most areas of leadership, yet God may call them to lead and serve a dying world in areas that are secular or career.
@@elibennett6168 you serve where God puts you. I spent years telling God, . . . TELLING God I would do that but not that, go there but not go there. Not good. In time, . . . whatever you want, wherever you want, send me. To be a good and obedient servant is enough. It is not a game. It is a life of joyful service.
There is a higher standard to serve as an Elder thus the qualification guidelines from 1 Tim 3
Adultery can be forgiven by God, but as far as Pastoring a church, no.
My ex wife filed for the divorce. Before it was final i got saved and pleaded with her for us to stay married. She did not want to. As i walked with the Lord i asked God to take the feelings away that i had for her if it was his will. God took the feelings away. She remarried and 5 yrs later i met the saved wife i am married to this day for 15 yrs. my wife i have now is my one wife. First marriage was lustful matrimony. Wife now was and is Holy matrimony.
Darian Bennett First marriage was lustful matrimony? What a nonsense, weak-willed statement. Second marriage as lustful matrimony, however, make a lot of sense.
I think scripture addresses this in unsaved people in marriage
But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except on the ground of sexual immorality, makes her commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery. - Matt 5:32
Once your first wife remarried she committed adultery and you could rightfully consider the divorce to be valid. But just because the other person was the one who initiated the divorce does not break the covenant of marriage nor release the other person by itself. Paul does speak of a non-believer leaving a believer and they can "let them go" so in that respect it is allowed, but not just because one person leaves the other.
Notice how Jesus in the verse above says even the wife (who did not ask for the divorce) is still considered in adultery. He does not qualify anything about whether these are believers or not. He does not ever talk about the motives behind why they got married. It's a messy situation, but we live in a broken world filled with sin.
In your situation it appears God gave grace and has blessed you since then with a loving wife. You can have peace in your situation and from Scripture I see no sin. But PLEASE do not go around trying to qualify your first marriage as a "lustful matrimony" and that is why the divorce was OK. That is not a biblical category, but just a worldly rationale. There is NEVER a distinction made in Scripture about different kinds of marriage based on if the people are believers or not or what their intentions were. I agree that many people in our world today get married for the wrong reasons and with stupid intentions, but that does not invalidate the marriage they chose to enter.
you told an emotional story, but not a Biblical one....
@@crysis_averted - He was free to remarry when his first wife divorced him. He didn't have wait for her to remarry, or to have sex with someone else.
(1Co 7:15 TLV) But if the unbeliever separates, let him be separated. The brother or the sister is not bound in such cases, but God has called you to shalom.
(1Co 7:15 KJV) But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.
Can this be interpreted to mean that one must be married to be qualified?
this is a very interesting question....if you find, anything, about this....please post it...
Above reproach I would give the opinion of present tense. One of the disciples was a murderer. And they are now considered a pillar of the faith. If we looked with eyes not present would we allow a killer to talk to us about Jesus. The man was redeemed and brought out of that sin presently therefore being without reproach.
you may have murdered, but you probably wont repeat it...here one is repeating the sin.....
Dr. Schreiner does a thorough job here and as he pointed to, there are many different situations. Qualified men "order their own households well" and if they don't the scripture says "how can they care for the household of God?" "Husbands, love your wives as Christ loved the church and gave Himself for her". I'm still not sure if a man divorced prior to regeneration or after could be called to the office of pastor. I'd like to say that it depends on the details of the divorce but it would be impossible to know the truth about everything that happened in the marriage. Every wrong thought, every ill motive, every unkind word or action done in the dark. Are they both true believers? For that reason, I believe that the safe bet is to NOT allow a divorced man into office and after all, he bears responsibility for the divorce no matter what happened. Appointing elders should be a serious decision and is even commanded that it be done through prayer and through fasting. I would guess that not many churches follow the fasting part of that command but are hasty in their laying on of hands. I agree with Dr. Schreiner that "the husband of one wife" means a one woman man so if a widower remarries he can still be called to the office. If a pastor commits adultery then there is no question that he should be disqualified for life because he is no longer above reproach, or well thought of by outsiders. You CAN in fact bring a charge against him.
I was in a church many years back, that was created from divorced pastors. These pastors were kicked out of their respective congregations because of divorce and re married to other women. That church group took off with a mighty move, but within one year issues crept in and the whole organisation collapsed . This was an Esau ministry, not Isaac who was called by God. So that'll always fail.
Yes, a one-women-man has much justification in terms of the Greek phrase.
If the person is a leader he is aware of the word of God, he doesn't need the people to make himself comfortable. The word should
In 1 Timothy, Paul was specifically addressing the issues of false teachers - teachers of false doctrine. He mentions them at least four times in the letter. By false teachers he meant those who add to or subtract from the gospel. He identifies them as purveyors of myths and endless genialogies. Those were common among the Gnostics and the Ophites (a sub-set of Gnosticism). They were mystical in their thought, given to "hidden truths," sexually immoral (thnking that there was no such thing as "sin" and that Christ was just a spiritual being) and they considered themselves to be spiritually superior to other Christians. In 1 Timothy 2, Paul was contrasting what would make a good elder (deacon, pastor, teacher) with what would make a poor one. His point: Make sure you are choosing someone who will present the gospel and only the gospel. Don't appoint someone who goes off on wild tagents, ignoring the real gospel message; whose life reflects the lives of the false teachers.
Beloved, I don't know you in person but God know you. God ministered to me in a revelation when I was on your profile to see things around you,I saw blessings but spiritual attacks holding onto them,in prayers,i saw a woman in the realm of the spirit monitoring and plotting delay in your life, with an evil mirror, and with motive to destroy. But as I speak to you now her time is up, Render hand of favour with Anything you can afford or give to these motherless foundation (Godstime MOTHERLESS FOUNDATION) in kebbi state Nigeria before 2DAYS with faith, as I Rise my hands towards heaven and pray for you they shall serve as point of contact wherever you are, you will receive double portion of grace to excel and total restoration of breakthrough in your life and in the life of your family. Ask for their acct details and help them call the MD in charge of the orphanage to get their details on (WhatsApp or call them now on +2348154975597) tell him I sent you. For it is not by might nor by in power but of the spirit saith the lord (zechariah 4:6). You shall testify to the Glory of God in your life. God bless you in Jesus name
why don't you mention household in order
A divorced person is not qualified to be a pastor some people explain the bible to dear lifestyles and to please others especially friends
How do you get around the last part of the same verse that says that the pastor/elder/overseer is to "manage his own household well"? If he has managed his own household well, he would have taken care of his wife and children and the divorce would not have happened. If the husband had done what Paul states in Ephesians and loved and served his wife as Christ loved and served the Church even going back to Ephesians 5:21 and submitting to EACH OTHER we would not have seen that divorce take place.
I was married for 3 months before I left for deployment to the Persian Gulf. I supported my wife while I was away as best I could. Within 2 months, she was sleeping around. Was that my fault, or hers? I remained faithful, she didn't. When I came back from deployment, I divorced her. I'm remarried (for 15 years now), have 2 great kids, and love Christ and my family with all I have. I think it's entirely possible to do all you can to love someone and care for them, and they not return that love.
@@rockhardnipple6633 you should have been advised against leaving so soon after marriage. In the old testament we see that soldiers had to stay home for a year after they were married. Your divorce was biblical. As to whether you can be a pastor, I don't know, I'll have to examine that issue a bit more.
@@GiaGirlism I'm not a Pastor. I do teach at church though. My only point is that it's hard to make clear cut decisions. There are so many circumstances surrounding divorces. I agree that marriage should be worked out. Sometimes people don't REALLY know someone until it's too late. I only wish we could be like Hosea. I just couldn't take the repetitive betrayal. I'm glad Christ is more forgiving than I am.
He doesn't have to "get around it." It's consistent with what he stated in his answer. By "managing his own household well" it doesn't have to mean that he ALWAYS has. It means that he currently has a proven track record of it. There are plenty of married 23 year olds who don't yet have a clue how to manage their household well, that will be very competent when they are 40.
@@rockhardnipple6633 I'm terribly sorry that you got a divorce and I greatly thank you for your service to our country. I believe that you are clearly unqualified to serve as a pastor but I absolutely admire your faithfulness to our Lord in glorifying him in the ways that you still can though. What kills me is that some people think "well if I can't have the job I think I should have then I'll just lay down on God and do nothing" and that's clearly the wrong attitude. Keep fighting the good fight of faith my friend!
Could it be that, “Husband of ‘one wife,’’’referred to a non-polygamous man? Please respond. MikeinMinnesota
The problem with that line of thought is that Jesus said a second marriage is adulterous.
“But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.”
Matthew 5:32
A very difficult subject. Covered well. I would add that the one being selected should take the health of the body into consideration before accepting a nomination. Controversy needs to be handled in love. The member who objects with opinion should also be ready to measure the true weight of that objection. The Christian paradigm is one of redemption.
I was in divorce court some time back and was observing the hostilities. The petitioner hated the respondent, and the feeling was mutual. They both hated the judge. The judge hated them. The opposing attorneys hated each other and their clients. The conflicts revolved around sharing the children, school permissions for custody/time sharing, interim support, lack of employment and finally hiring experts ordered by the judge! At that time the Spirit of God spoke into my spirit and said now do you see why I hate divorce. I was deeply moved by that word to me. Pastors are not immune from that ongoing ungodliness. I will not ever sit under the teaching of a divorced pastor or teacher.
Would you ever sit under the teachings of a murderer???
Apostle Paul was one before coming to know Christ
People live lives before being saved from their sins, and they make terrible mistakes during that time.
Thankfully, GOD forgives. It would be nice if men would too
@@roblane5699 Good reply. If you read Paul, he repeatedly states his disqualification as the worst of believers. However, he had a more perfect appointment as he said himself. He did not confer with anyone but was delivered the gospel by Jesus. And to be sure his awful behavior occurred before his conversion.
What we see today are self appointed men who become "life coaches" and not ministers of the gospel delivered to them from Christ. I am an attorney who has had to deal with minister crashes. I must say that the pride exhibited by "fallen" preachers is astounding. They have no compunction to after divorcing, to visiting prostitutes, to fraud, to pedophilia and then returning to the pastorate after "getting counseling." They should not return. Look at the New Testament directives. They can be restored to "fellowship" but should never have a post of leadership as they have failed during their instruction to others. Consider the fellow in Corinth who was having sex with his mother. He ostracized at Paul's direction but was also returned to fellowship also at Paul's direction.
So we learn that "believers" in leadership are judged more strictly. James 3:1.
@@roblane5699 Sure God forgives and being caught in a sin can be restored to fellowship. I John 1:9 and Galatians 6:1 are instructive. However, today's leadership consider their position as one of monetary gain and that is the rub. How about those leaders who have been removed and then turn around and sue the church?
What is at stake is the ministry of the Holy Spirit who is given in promise to us. The upside down mode of church leadership -- the "Moses model" is error and produces leaders given to abuse of the congregants.
@@roblane5699 I represent people in criminal defense and I would strive to have them set free but once free, I would never sit under their instruction or take them into my home.
That should answer you too simple a question.
Shameful.
Studied this subject for many years and now as a senior pastor in Texas I have held 3 different views over time. You are right on this subject
Do your research and your EXEGESIS... NOT EISEGESIS !!!
Beloved, I don't know you in person but God know you. God ministered to me in a revelation when I was on your profile to see things around you,I saw blessings but spiritual attacks holding onto them,in prayers,i saw a woman in the realm of the spirit monitoring and plotting delay in your life, with an evil mirror, and with motive to destroy. But as I speak to you now her time is up, Render hand of favour with Anything you can afford or give to these motherless foundation (Godstime MOTHERLESS FOUNDATION) in kebbi state Nigeria before 2DAYS with faith, as I Rise my hands towards heaven and pray for you they shall serve as point of contact wherever you are, you will receive double portion of grace to excel and total restoration of breakthrough in your life and in the life of your family. Ask for their acct details and help them call the MD in charge of the orphanage to get their details on (WhatsApp or call them now on +2348154975597) tell him I sent you. For it is not by might nor by in power but of the spirit saith the lord (zechariah 4:6). You shall testify to the Glory of God in your life. God bless you in Jesus name
just dont divorce and remarry.....if you divorce the options are....reconcile, or remain unmarried...
What about a man whose wife sinned, divorced him, and he has stay in the faith
I do not believe God permits divorce and remarriage under any circumstances (even adultery). I know I'm in the overwhelming minority in today's divorce-saturated culture, but, I believe the only consistent interpretation of this matter is that Jesus prohibited all divorce, and the exception clause applies to the Jewish law about a bride who is discovered on her wedding night to not be a virgin (which is why Matthew, writing to a Jewish audience is the only author to include the exception clause, and why he uses the word "porneia" or "fornication").
As it pertains to appointing elders, we certainly can't appoint men who have been unfaithful to their first marriage covenant.
I know, I know, I'm a horrible person for saying so. And the fact that we have so many compromising pastors leading today's Church has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that we are appointing unqualified men to lead.
Firstly, your scriptural argument completely ignores Apostle Paul's exegesis on the subject. Secondly, by your logic, people in physically and mentally abusive relationships should be stay married *legally,* even though their marriage reflects the complete opposite of what *the spirit* of marriage should be as outlined in Ephesians 6. Jesus Christ was never legalistic. He *always* defended the vulnerable. The heart is more important to Him than external adherence. You need to read Ezra, where God's people repented from marrying pagan wives by *divorcing them.* It was more important to God that their hearts were submitted than that they stayed married. If you cannot see that your viewpoint restricts the grace and mercy of Christ, I think you should ask God for greater love and understanding of His word.
@@petalblossom96 - I have not "completely ignored" Paul's teaching; my comment was not meant to be a doctoral dissertation covering every aspect of this subject. I have studied Paul's teaching and believe that my position is in full agreement with everything Paul taught. Paul does not give permission for "remarriage". He says that divorce is permissible if the unbeliever wishes to leave, but, he does not expressly state that remarriage is permitted even in that case.
I would suggest that you refrain from making moral judgments against me. I am but a man, and I am striving to serve my God faithfully, as I'm sure you think you are doing as well. I welcome Biblical discussion with those who actually know how to have a civil discussion, but I'm not interested in discussing the subject with someone who is going to call into question my "love" and character without even knowing me in person. lol
If a person is divorced several years before his conversion, is that an unpardonable sin? What other sins of the past are not forgiven? Of course the answer is clear. I agree with the professor's viewpoint. There are many self righteous people who inject their hypocritical beliefs into the discussion. Text without context is a pretext for a proof text. A proper hermeneutic is necessary for this subject and everything else.
Of course it's not an "unpardonable sin". Only blasphemy against the Holy Ghost is that. However, it is a "disqualifying" sin for that particular office and that's perfectly fine because there are tons of other things that a man can do to serve his Lord.
a same sex marriage, before conversion.....is this relationship allowed to continue if one....repents....
If you can remain abstinent all your life, do so and devote yourself fully to God.
Do not have sex (or engage in sexual immorality, cough "porn!" Cough cough!). If you do need that release or if you burn in lust, get married!
Stay married all your life. Period. Find a way to be faithful and make it work.
If you screwed around BEFORE becoming a Christian, there is Grace there, but if you were married (or fathered children) you missed your chance to be an elder in the church. And if women or others come forward on the church who would be challenged by you becoming a pastor because of your past, then you might want to reconsider your calling, or if you were called.
Take a hard line stance on yourself, you don't have to be a pastor or elder or deacon to help lead the church. When I was in the military I never joined a church, yet I was on anywhere from three to five committees, taught Sunday school and even locked and unlocked the place every Sunday and Wednesday. I submitted to the spiritual leadership of the individual church but disagreed with the greater denomination, therefore my wife and I chose to never join. We also kept thinking we would be transferred every six months, so it was always a temporary thing.
My point is, you can impact a church mightily without holding an office.
You wax eloquent but you left out one important factor. The Lord. The Lord calls men and women to specific ministries. God does not see one ministry as more important than others. The Sunday school teacher has to give account just like the traveling evangelist. The deacon must give account like those who are in the ministry of helps. All ministry is important. The qualifications of a bishop is not the five fold ministry gifts. (Pastor, Teacher, Apostle, Prophet, Evangelist) A Bishop oversees more than one local fellowships. So if one would get technical the one wife prohibition only relates to a bishop. The Lord forgives all sin and allows His servants to minister as He sees fit.
@@lordssideministries4062 I agree that all sins can be forgiven, and I am not asking anyone to step down, I am forced. to trust the leading of the Holy Spirit in the hearts of my brethren. I think that taking a hard line stance and then allowing the individual congregation to exercise mercy on a case by case basis is the best option. The office of bishop or elder is executed differently in different christian sects, I can only speak to my own understanding. While I have attended Catholic, Orthodox and numerous protestant churches, I have only been a member of four denominations, and I am aware of their limitations: Anglican, Presbyterian, reformed baptist, and non denomination (which of course can mean anything!).
@@lordssideministries4062 forgives the ones living in the continual sin, of adultery???
Theres a reason marriage is in church and you say till.death do us apart it doesn't mean in ten yrs let's trade her in and get younger women . Marriage is serious in the eyes of God but we love sin to much .divorce is of the world not the church
The phrase is stating that an elder needs to be a 'first' woman man, correlating to loving the woman of his youth and not dealing with her treacherously. Paul’s teaching here is specifically against Roman legal monogamy, serial monogamy. If a man takes another woman, at minimum he is to maintain food, clothing, and marital rights (Exodus 21:10), rather than get rid of her in order to get a ‘legal’ marriage, or because he doesn’t want the burden. However, there are cases when it is just and possibly required for a man to divorce a rebellious woman as modeled by the Lord (Jeremiah 3), sexual adultery being more obvious. In such cases a man is not disqualified from eldership, so long has he did not deal unfaithfully with the woman.
The reason why we have such a hard time understanding text like this today is that we assume a western Greco/Roman understanding of the marriage covenant, which is literally the doctrine of demons, in this case Hera, forbidding Biblically grounded unions.
This is by far the best way to describe this issue,God bless.
I think a better way is to just say what the scriptures said one wife means one wife so if you have a second wife and your first wife is still living your living in adultery.
@@derrickkennedy3812 AMEN!!!!
In the end times people will do the things that feels right to them.
hopefullly people will follow the teaching of the text...
Reputation does not seem very reliable, depending on who you ask they could say the would be pastor has a good "reputation" perhaps because he's friends with him, so its very subjective what "good reputation" means
it means not having a bad one. like being known for habitual sins ect, bad character and so on.
Your view is the only logical one. There are many who will be divorced many times before they come to know God.
Any other view would mean that men who were divorced before being called to repentance would be disqualified to lead a congregation. This is nonsense.....
then how do you read the text....or Scripture.....
@@philipbuckley759
Be more specific.
Simple answer is a divorced pastor is unqualified to be an example that leads a church. They can still go soul winning, etc but have no place leading a church of families seeking to maintain their marriage.
They are bringing condemnation of the local church by the local community. Inside most know it is wrong to have a divorced pastor. Talking in circles will not explain this away.
The problem is there are well known charismatic men within the SBC that are divorced. They have friends and their friends try to justify the unjustifiable and thus compromise the word.
Divorce should never be condoned or disregarded. Not to mention, the Bible clearly condemns remarriage after divorce as adultery of at least one of the spouses. A pastor ideally should be married, have kids, or at least intend to have kids, raised by both parents, and having at least one sibling. He should set an example for each of those familial relationships in the church.
Even if the divorce was not initiated by the person, the failing lies in them choosing a spouse. The church should assume that they may have chosen poorly when it came to getting married, and that would not reflect well on having to counsel other dating, engaged, married, or divorced people. Likewise, if the person were married, divorced, and remarried before they became a Christian, and then repented of their first marriage, getting divorced, and remarrying with the intent of being faithful until death this time, they still shouldn't hold a position of leadership, because it doesn't uphold God's ideal form of marriage.
f I was in a position of leadership, and my spouse divorced me, I would resign, and make it clear that I'm resigning to keep God's word.
If the other spouse still lives, remarried is not "an" adultery, a one-time sin, it is ongoing adultery.
Though they try to repress their conscience
Everybody concerned knows it's adultery.
You can't lead with a guilty conscience you are repressing.
i found jesus after i was married and being a christian made me realise that my marriage was not right. im going to devote my life to making god happy but that surely doesnt mean that im not allowed to be happy too.
are you looking to remarry.....how would you justify this...
@@philipbuckley759 maybe sometime in the future when i find a woman that i feel is right, i married my maid before just so she could save face because she got pregnant
I am thankful for congregational church government. That's deeply relevant to this issue. Not every believer is going to agree where to draw the line, and not every church will either. A church that holds that a divorced person is disqualified is perfectly within their rights (in a congregationalist government) to hold to that standard. A church where the people are open to looking at the circumstances and judging whether a person has a proven track record of faithfulness, despite a divorce in his past, is also within its rights to do so in a congregationalist government. What I think is wrong is to look down on the one you disagree with as if they are either more "legalistic" than your enlightened self, or they must be "going liberal." The first qualification sets the tone for the whole thing. He must be blameless--and in that regard, only the congregation that calls him can make that call.
Bo Stephens AMEN. One pastor told me the church has authority 😳 WHAT!!!! The church has no authority. Jesus said ALL authority is given unto HIM by his Father the Father didn’t give authority to the church. We have freedom to make decisions to an extent but again GOD has the final say. That’s why when they were replacing Judas they couldn’t just up and appoint who they felt like they had to pray and get GODS approval on it.
How on earth is this guy or ANYONE ELSE for that matter blatantly disregarding Jesus' own words AND Paul's, written under the inspiration of the Spirit of Jesus??? Jesus clearly "draws the line":
"But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except on the ground of sexual immorality, makes her commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery (Matt 5:32, also Matt 19:9)."
And Paul's 2nd witness, "To the married I give this command (NOT I, BUT THE LORD): A wife MUST NOT separate from her husband. But if she does, she MUST REMAIN UNMARRIED OR else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife. (1 Cor 7:10-11)."
What am I missing from these two witnesses, BOTH from the Lord Jesus???
@@jimmdavis8197 fornication, and that is different than....sexual immorality.....
Very helpful. As always.
What about pastors who have systematically betrayed their own congregations to bring personal profit, practiced authoritarian bully tactics and seem to Lord themselves over their congregations? One such author, preacher, speaker etc. James MacDonald, did these things and still has a significant voice in the Christian community after being fired from his church. These are prescient questions in modern times. It's curious to think about how the church is to handle such situations.
Jack Jones James McDonald is simple. If people abort these preachers and make God their only preacher people like McDonald wont have an audience.
What if you divorced before you were saved?
if you got married by a court ir in church thsts makes vow or a covenant you cannot remarry until your first wife dies. i know how difficult it is because im living it.... but its a great reward in the end.. just find your true love in Christ..he is worthy..
If you were both unbelievers or the other spouse was an unbeliever the Word in 1 Corinthians 7:15 does not put blame on you, you are free to remarry and to minister.
but if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace
I think an important note is that our past failures and sins, if we have repented,do not disqualify us for ministry. Paul was a murderer before his encounter with Jesus, Moses was also a murderer, David committed adultery, ect. The better questions to ask is have they repented and learned from their mistake and who are they today.
@@kawaiinani very wrong .. you added to the scriptures, because nowhere in the bible does it read what you just said. but it does say thst you are not in bondage as to try to sanctify your marriage. if you stepped into a vow with witnesses than God recognizes every marriage thats why John called herods marriage with herodias unlawfull because it was his brother wife .notice how they were unbelivers yet John the baptist called his
@@kawaiinani his wife. the law of martiage is universal ... please read the book from Dr joseph webb "till death do us part... this is a big problem in believer or unbeliever because they fsil to committ themselves to the God of our marriage claws..
clause.
If all fails, thank God there is no more marriages and remarry in heaven. Marriage is a worldly thing. Let God judge. Remember restoration. Remember repentance.
I don't think divorced people are disqualified from being pastors. I think there are circumstances where a divorced person is qualified to be a pastor, and I think there are circumstances where a divorced person isn't qualified to be a pastor. If a person's marriage ended in divorce due to them being abusive, struggling with domestic violence, struggling with adultery, struggling with child abuse, etc, I think that person shouldn't be a pastor because people who struggle with being abusive, domestic violence, adultery, child abuse, etc shouldn't be pastors. If a person divorces their spouse due to their spouse getting less attractive, ending up paralyzed, getting a stroke, etc, they shouldn't be pastors because divorcing a spouse due to them getting less attractive, ending up paralyzed, getting a stroke, etc is not being a good role model for married couples in the church, not being a good role model in regards to leading a church, etc.
I think if someone's marriage ended in divorce due to them not being compatible, their spouse committed adultery on them, their spouse was abusive towards them, etc, I think that person is qualified to be a pastor because marriages don't work out when people aren't compatible (sometimes people make the mistake of marrying someone they aren't compatible with), it's not someone's fault that they were cheated on, it's not someone's fault that they were abused, etc. When a married person gets abused, cheated on, etc by their spouse, it's not their fault that they were abused, cheated on, etc. No one should be abused. No one should be cheated on.
IT DEPENDS. his wife cheated on him... forgive her, take her back; his wife left him and won't come back, the pastor remains faithful (unmarried to a second partner)... then he is still qualified. because he did the right thing. now... i don't think there's any other scenario where a pastor who cheated on his wife or left her and remarried can remain qualified. do we want a purified church? well, the example must be given from above. remarriage, if one's spouse is not deceased, is adultery.
I like this man's approach but I will clear this up a little bit. My take is that when Paul mentions husband of one wife, he is talking of polygamy. It's quite possible that certain Christian's especially gentiles had two or more wives. This is why he makes that statement. If you go to preach the gospel to certain parts of the middle east and Africa today, many families still have more than one wife especially if they have wealth. Therefore, God's design is for one man and one woman. That's the example God want's in the Church as leaders. Those with more than one wife cannot serve as leadership. Neither we as a church are to ask them to divorce their wives, they just can't serve as leaders period. As for those who have been divorced. I believe remarriage is possible but in very few circumstances. The death of a spouse is one. An unfaithful wife or husband who leaves the marriage and re-marries is another one. Once that person is remarried, it is forbidden in the old testament to reconcile. It's done. So I will give you an example regarding an unfaithful wife since we are talking pastors. Wife asks husband for separation, begins seeing another man and then asks for divorce. The man grants divorce (justified i might add) and the wife remarries with the one she is seeing now. I believe that husband free and can re-marry and is no longer bound. It would be an abomination to force that man to reconcile with the wife that left him after she is remarried. That was forbidden in the old testament. I have to say that because there are some pastors out there condemning folks who remarried after their spouses remarried.
Christian V can you give chapter and verse for you say is the truth I would like to check what you say with the scriptures.
Holy petty minutiae, Batman!
Thank you for your circumspection 👌
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1 Corinthians 7:10: "To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband. 11 But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife." This command applies equally to both genders though the example provided is that of a wife leaving. Secondly, note that this is a command of the Lord and is addressed to the believers of Corinth; not just the leadership. So the NT teaching is clear on the subject. The Bible makes a provision for divorce & remarriage in the case of an unfaithful spouse (Mathew 19:9) and for no other reason; even if you are perfectly innocent. So clearly, the answer provided is a lowering of the standard set, even for a believer, more so for the office of a pastor.
fornication, not sexual immorality...
Thanks for this video. I will stay single and if the church requires me to step down as the junior pastor. I will do so. Again thank you.
Divorce is complicated and it can get exhausting when one party keeps rebuilding while the other party keeps digging their heels in wanting their own way. Marriage is unity not competition.
It would be better to have programs that build strong marriages vs divorce. A pastor is looked up to as a spiritual leader. Many people rely on his knowledge to teach the flock. Divorce will devastate both side of the family, dissolve the church organization and cause many heart breaks. Unfortunately, some may even loose faith even though their faith needs to be on the Lord God not man. The pastors reputation will lack respect. It takes years to built a church foundation and can be destroyed in a short time.
it’s very difficult to rebuild a strong marriage but not impossible. If I attended a church where the pastor is divorced would I judge him or her. No, the attendance may be less but would want to know why it happened. It’s tough. Pastors have a tough job with a high calling
Pastors have a tough job because they insist on the one man show.....and ignores 1 Corinthians 14.26 New Living Translation
Well, my brothers and sisters, let’s summarize. When you meet together, one will sing, another will teach, another will tell some special revelation God has given, one will speak in tongues, and another will interpret what is said. But everything that is done must strengthen all of you
Good job Schreiner!
The gospel also speaks about the pastoral role that fathers have over their family. In order to train them out properly the parents must be properly trained. It’s only deductive reasoning.
Imagine where our country would be if seminary was more open to this biblical concept that parents are told to raise their children up in the way that they should go. Church communities are preventing the glorification of God through this concept, that’s not OK.
Paul would be the very first to reject any strict legalism. Paul himself might not qualify to be a pastor in many churches today because he wasn’t married and in some Christian circles in his day was known as a troublemaker.
Hello, im a pastor i just got married to a fine young lady. she came from a Christian family. but after our marriage, months later i found out that before our marriage She got involved to another girl and have an intimate relation with that girl. So in short She is a bisexual... but after i forgive her she keeps on pursuing that girl. its so hard for me.. advice me pls. Its very hard for me. help me pls. im so broken. i dont know what to do.. :(
Advice from another pastor. Adultery is grounds for divorce, the only grounds mentioned in the Bible. It's not your fault brother, can't control what another person does and your not judged for her sins.. my mentor for seminary has the same issue, 23 years ago . I will be praying for you my brother in Christ Jesus
@@timkincade9763 sadly there is ni devorce here in our country :(
Grace upon grace! Thank you Dr Schreiner for your clarity and conviction
Be careful and wise. Dr. Schreiners apparent grace is at the cost of a broken heart. Remarriage to another especially if a man wasn’t abandoned by an unbelieving woman is not permissible as Christ himself condemns it. Luke 16:18. For a woman it’s harder. Scriptures seem to not give her a way out at all unless the husband dies. Then she’s free of the law of marriage. The man’s is also questionable as though it’s not condemned, it’s not blessed either especially for pastors and deacon’s. It’s expressly told to be a man of one wife and above reproach making a divorce on his record a mark. Though they may not be at fault it’s a very fine line. Be very careful of everything you hear and learn from pastors these days and do you’re own biblical deep study on this. It’s a big deal mentioned a lot in the New Testament by Christ himself.
People used too have more than one wife at the same time. Abraham, Jacob ,so Paul is saying if you want to be a Deacon or a Bishop in the church you should be the husband of one wife. If you are a polygamist you shouldn’t be considered for the position of Deacon or Bishop.
This video assumes a permissive view on remarriage after divorce which is itself an area of contention. Romans 7 and 1 Cor 7 state that marriage is for life, so many believe that marriage is never permitted after divorce, only after the death of a spouse. The one "exception" in Matthew 19 is believed to refer to Jewish bethrothal/engagement, where a partner fornicates. The word for fornicate in Greek is "pornea". Note that the word used here is not the word used for adultery elsewhere in the new testament ("moicheia" if I recall correctly). It is fornication and not adultery in Matthew 19 because in this hypothetical example, the couple is bethrothed, but not married. Betrothals required a divorce to break in Jewish days, unlike today. Everywhere else in the New Testament remarriage after divorce, or marriage to a divorcee is noted as adultery without exception (Matthew 5, Mark 10, Luke 16).