Chevy straight six 230 on STEROIDS!!

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  • Опубликовано: 2 дек 2024
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Комментарии • 158

  • @ValorLife
    @ValorLife 5 лет назад +13

    I kept the original straight 6 in my Nova, wanted to do something different. Added the Clifford performance kit, cylinder head, cam, and gears from 12 Bolt, and a Ford 9 inch rear end with 2.75 gears. Still has the original 2 speed power glide and she runs great. Not a race car but sweet for cruising and still mainly original.

  • @HenauderTitzauf
    @HenauderTitzauf 3 года назад +6

    Hey, another great six cylinder story. I’ve only had five or six v8s in my lifetime. I’m 77 now and have a 4.2/242 Jeep Grand Cherokee, Chrysler 3.6 dohc v6 town and country, and a 1967 Mustang with a 200/3.3 inline 6. I love me some 6 cylinders. Thank you for posting and sharing. Please do a post that you drive it around, gotta hear the exhaust sounds!

  • @retromotors383
    @retromotors383 4 года назад +9

    So much cooler than the belly button SBC V-8s.
    Great work!

  • @JoeHynes284
    @JoeHynes284 7 лет назад +28

    this is really cool! A nice change from hot rodded V8s

  • @tripplesrule
    @tripplesrule 7 лет назад +3

    I had a 230 in my 65 Biscayne 2 door sedan with a single barrel carb. It always hiccuped when full throttle was put to it then it smoothed out nice. Oh I loved that car!!

  • @theburghrules
    @theburghrules 7 лет назад +9

    One thing that most will miss is that the straight-6 doesn't vibrate at all while running. They are smooth and put out great torque. Apply all of the current engine tech to them (variable valve timing, variable lift, direct injection, etc) and they can compete with most V8 setups. Hell, tuners are getting over 400 HP out of BMW 3.0 liter engines...

    • @rncboy2
      @rncboy2 Год назад +2

      You might want to check out what the Brazilians have done with the engines

  • @markescartin1915
    @markescartin1915 Год назад +2

    What everyone seems to miss is the need for a major brake upgrade (discs, oversized calipers, dual master cylinders, steel lines)

  • @rickeymitchell8620
    @rickeymitchell8620 3 года назад +3

    This is a nice and different setup. Sounds great too. Good job!

  • @jefferyrightmire9520
    @jefferyrightmire9520 5 лет назад +3

    Very Nice, Love the old trucks
    I knew a guy in HS who hot-rodded a 6 cyl in a Camaro. Had 4 barrel and dual exhaust manifolds. And internal mods--

  • @rogerhale6404
    @rogerhale6404 3 года назад +3

    We had a 70 chevy 250 and put on a split header....was quite unique entertaining sound !!

  • @tnddiving6166
    @tnddiving6166 4 года назад

    I just picked up a 71 c/10 straight 6. It’s a long story but. Father in law gave it to me. Had it re built a bored, painted and body work done. Parked it under a carport on concrete. It’s all original except wheels. Not run in 23 years,I’m starting to try and get it going again. I don’t know if I’m over my head or not but I’m going to try to build it back.

  • @TommAceAZ
    @TommAceAZ 7 лет назад +5

    Nice truck, super cool inline 6. Nobody sees monojet carbs anymore, but tell u what they steal the show when u open that hood at shows. My 72 has monojet and inline 250 easy money cruise all day out here in AZ heat. Thanks for posting.

  • @justinziegler2248
    @justinziegler2248 4 года назад +4

    Very cool, I'm also building a 230. Columb 3 speed.
    64 chevelle

  • @VinnyMartello
    @VinnyMartello 5 лет назад +1

    I have a 250 six-banger I'm doing for my 36' Plymouth coupe. I got a 5 speed for it. Got the lump port kit, headers, stainless valves, roller rockers with studs, and the Offenhauser triple carb.

  • @kevs56chev
    @kevs56chev 8 лет назад +6

    That's a cool truck and you do very clean work I dig it

  • @rickilynnwolfe8357
    @rickilynnwolfe8357 5 лет назад +5

    Great job love it 👍 I got a straight 6 in my 63 chevy nova.Yours rocks

  • @markmarczan136
    @markmarczan136 9 лет назад +3

    The sixes are still popular in australia, they were just a smaller chevy six, but on some models they had two peice cast iron exhaust manifolds which worked alot better.

    • @KG84C
      @KG84C 4 года назад

      Yeah, the Holden "Grey" engine series 1948-63.

  • @paulhawkman6159
    @paulhawkman6159 2 года назад

    Had the exact same Offy manifold carb set up on a '74 Nova, i ended up replacing the carbs with Rochester 1 bbl.'s. Motor looks good!

  • @Ken6151
    @Ken6151 7 лет назад +2

    230 and 250 sixes were introduced in 1963, replacing the 235. 7 main bearings, full flow oil filter.

    • @dwcoop5390
      @dwcoop5390 6 лет назад +1

      Ken6151 250s came out in 67

    • @VinnyMartello
      @VinnyMartello 5 лет назад +2

      The 7 main bearing design is why you can actually make power with those!!!

  • @PacificCircle1
    @PacificCircle1 9 лет назад +13

    Primary and secondaries - smart. Wish I had that on my '69 c-10 250

  • @craigbenz4835
    @craigbenz4835 3 года назад

    Good ol' single circuit brakes. Ya gotta love 'em.

  • @davidboatner3115
    @davidboatner3115 Год назад +1

    Still running good? Did you use some kind of roller set up on the pushrods? Sounds quiet up there, not a lot of tappy

  • @unclequack5445
    @unclequack5445 8 лет назад +3

    What transmission are you using now?
    It would be cool if it still had the 3 on the column.

  • @troydanielson1915
    @troydanielson1915 4 года назад +3

    That’s very cool! I’ve got a 63 SB Fleet that has a 6 in it and I’m thinking of doing something similar as yours what do you have into it and what HP are you getting? Thanks

  • @mikemichaletz7041
    @mikemichaletz7041 5 лет назад

    That set up is going on my 1940 Chev. truck and can’t wait to drive it.

  • @rong9554
    @rong9554 Год назад +2

    looks great, pretty cool setup. love those old rochester carbs but probably a headache keeping it reliable at this point in time. peace

  • @MarkFraser-u3c
    @MarkFraser-u3c Месяц назад

    I have a 1968 250 bored 60 over 10 to I aluminum pistons ,matched aluminum gear on crank to cam aluminum flywheel. Hi output ignition hooker headers and a450 Holley on a offenhauser aluminum intake In my 55 150 two dr post chevy i've owned since 1974.Still have.

  • @MrHeadshot1982
    @MrHeadshot1982 8 лет назад +5

    Thanks for the post i love inline 6.

  • @robertknight4378
    @robertknight4378 Год назад +1

    It's really cool but you need a header a split header it'll breathe better and run great👍🇺🇲🏆

  • @DonovanBryant92
    @DonovanBryant92 7 лет назад

    my favorite straight six is the vintage gmc hot rod straight six that most people would put in trucks like the GMC 100

  • @johncooper9976
    @johncooper9976 3 года назад +1

    My 77 C10 is going to be a lot like that. 250, cam, headers, 4bl and a T5

    • @rattycaddy
      @rattycaddy  3 года назад

      Get the S10 T5 w the .85 OD. The camaro is way too high for a lil straight 6. But it is way fun and whole new truck. Easy cruisin on the highway.

  • @jamesford2942
    @jamesford2942 2 года назад

    Nice setup, I noticed that you have a second exhaust outlet at the rear. Is this a split manifold or just another outlet welded in?

  • @snotty_boi8248
    @snotty_boi8248 3 года назад +1

    How much hp does the lump ports give?

  • @VinnyMartello
    @VinnyMartello 2 года назад

    Well I finally got my 250 six banger running. But I got a question for you, where did you get your triple linkage?

  • @joshuaolds6035
    @joshuaolds6035 2 года назад

    Just wondering what cam you installed? Did you have to have the head machined? Any trouble with linkage to accelerator?

  • @krisyoung3978
    @krisyoung3978 3 года назад

    Very nice. I have an 81 Chevy Cheyenne, stepside... I6 and 3 on the tree. Thinking of what can do. . .

  • @AlvinTexas1
    @AlvinTexas1 8 лет назад

    could you film around the engine and fire wall I want to see the wiring..Nice setup

  • @bandy7750
    @bandy7750 11 лет назад +2

    good looking engine on a nice truck

  • @terryscott8973
    @terryscott8973 3 года назад

    That's really bad ass just bought a barn find 1960 Bellaire with a 6 cylinder I would love to do that to it can you hook me up on were to buy that set up ?.

  • @Johnleefromthemist
    @Johnleefromthemist 4 года назад

    Very Nice Engine set up I6

  • @facedesigns
    @facedesigns 3 года назад

    I have a 66 C10 with a 292 and just put on the same intake. We are having issues getting it to run well. At idle it sounds great, but wont through the power band. We tried blocking off 2 of the carbs, thinking maybe it would help and did the same thing. Put an HEI distributor on it and maybe there is an issue with it. Its a lot of work but I love the look and sound of it all.

    • @rattycaddy
      @rattycaddy  3 года назад

      Its been a long time and my knowledge has faded since I did this. Just get yourself a syncrometer set at most rental auto hubs and begin researching how to balance these three amigos inline. I had made a sort of hydrometer using a yardstick and oil-filled nylon tubing for a poormans syncrometer and begin going back-n-forth from middle, left & right trying to get the air and idle mixture as closely synched with one another. As always, of course if youre having trouble working the acceleration through the powerband, look for air leaks and check valve adjustment is where I would begin after carbbies are syched. Is this while driving or revving in neutral?

    • @facedesigns
      @facedesigns 3 года назад

      @@rattycaddy while revving up, it does just fine. But when I try to drive, it just wont go... it starts to cut out and wont rev up. Bought a Motorcycle Carb Synchronizer Vacuum Balancer and got the vaccum looking good, put a timing light on it and got it pretty good too. Thank you for your response. I didnt realize your video was as old as it is lol.

    • @rattycaddy
      @rattycaddy  3 года назад

      @@facedesigns Sounds like a vacuum advance issue. Check to make sure its operating properly on that HEI dizzy and also, if my memory is working ok, there are two different types of carbon pickups inside that distributor like for the 350. Could also be a lacking fuel pressure issue. A stock FP is at like 3-4 (?) psi and you might need a few more pounds to run the extra carbs. Is it a new HEI?

    • @facedesigns
      @facedesigns 3 года назад

      @@rattycaddy its a brand new fuel pump, brand new HEI, all new lines, brand new carbs.

    • @rattycaddy
      @rattycaddy  3 года назад

      @@facedesigns brand new carbs as in rebuilt 1bbl Rochesters? Also, what brand HEI did you buy? I have heard alot of horror stories of people buying electronic distributors for their 292s only to find out there is clearance and interference issues with your much taller deco and calve covers. Most of the Chinese HEIs from small time online vendors are just simply inferior nowadays.

  • @jnljnl8485
    @jnljnl8485 6 лет назад

    I had a 292 in a 66. It just had a stock rebuild but I sure burnt trough tires.

  • @josephreynosa3605
    @josephreynosa3605 5 лет назад +1

    What kind kind of transmission you have

  • @timkis64
    @timkis64 Год назад

    those old straight 6 engines would run forever if maintained reasonably.im sure it pulls quite well for its size.

  • @Paulkellar
    @Paulkellar 2 года назад

    Good choice, I have a 230 im my '63 C10

  • @VinnyMartello
    @VinnyMartello 3 года назад +1

    Running an offenhauser tripl I see. Very nice. I’ll be running that on my 250.

  • @thecynic807
    @thecynic807 3 года назад +1

    This is what I want to do to my dads 65 chevy van. I'm about to buy it from him. It's in great shape too.
    How much did all this cost.

    • @rattycaddy
      @rattycaddy  3 года назад +2

      I bought the intake at the Pomona swapmeet years and years ago for around $200. I sourced the carbs off ebay as-is for about $30 and had them pro rebuilt for about $100. I would highly recommend you have all the necessary modifications done to the head before attempting this set up. Also, you are gonna need some carb balancing equipment, some extreme patience and a heavy duty punching bag to go through with this.

  • @sick66caddy
    @sick66caddy 5 лет назад

    It’s awesome, you’re a local guy out here running this set up

  • @mikescooby7625
    @mikescooby7625 3 года назад

    Thanks for posting this 😀

  • @reniercosta
    @reniercosta 4 года назад

    just wondering which jets you use on the carbs

  • @lithuaniangiant2676
    @lithuaniangiant2676 3 года назад

    Do the outside carbs have an idle circuit?

  • @kennethmeyers267
    @kennethmeyers267 7 лет назад +1

    Wow shit man. I have a 1966 230 Pontiac Over Head Cam i am working on now. What are the spec's on your cam?? I will have a problem i was told cuz my Pontiac 230 in overhead cam motor. Fuckin cam has been drilled out from one end to the other. Thats how it feeds oil to the cam followers. You went the right way with those 3 carbs. You get more kick for your money and better fuel distribution.

  • @jeepnutt78
    @jeepnutt78 9 лет назад

    Did you plumb coolant under the intake manifold?

  • @cheddar525
    @cheddar525 8 лет назад

    Where did you get the progressive linkage set up

  • @dennisyoung4631
    @dennisyoung4631 Год назад

    Awesome 3 slurp-slurp carbs! Vrawm! Vrawm!

  • @bolterboi10
    @bolterboi10 3 года назад

    Would you happen to have still pics of the linkage setup? I am attempting to run pretty much same setup in a 250 with 3x1 offy intake manifold and carbs rochester B and 5414k linkage kit. But as you know the provided instructions are not ideal. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you

    • @rattycaddy
      @rattycaddy  3 года назад +1

      I wish I still had the truck. I have no other still pics. I had to fabricate and experiment with much of the linkage. It was quite tedious but entertaining. I made my own manometer out of a yardstick and tubing which I dont think was exactly dependable and led to alot of up and down frustrating adjustments. Just try to use the strongest, thickest gauge possible of whatever your fabricating on the linkage. I ran that setup for a year or so before i got tired of constantly tinkering with it. Just a difference in -/+ 10 degrees in the weather seem to mess with performance. And that gas consumption wasnt excessive but it was def a noticeable increase obviously from a single or 2x setup. Also, I had screwed up my gearing when I swapped in a T5 camaro tranny. It was a lil too high. I drove this setup alot and it got alot of attention and it sounds great through a spit manifold! Good luck!

  • @jezzie1965
    @jezzie1965 6 лет назад +1

    I wanted to listen to the exhaust note

  • @marshallmcdowell3369
    @marshallmcdowell3369 9 лет назад

    I know offenhauser makes a 4 barrel intake for a 300 inline six ford that accepts a 390 cfm Holley carb. Not sure if they make one for a Chevrolet inline six though. If you could find one of those, put a hotter can in it and have about 10:1 compression and a nice long tube header, it would be a beast. Good looking engine though.

    • @militarychevy711
      @militarychevy711 9 лет назад +1

      marshall mcdowell They make one for the 230-250-292 chevy 6. $289 from Summit. :)

    • @militarychevy711
      @militarychevy711 8 лет назад

      ***** Here's a link for ya. lol
      www.summitracing.com/parts/ofy-5416-lk/overview/

    • @militarychevy711
      @militarychevy711 8 лет назад

      ***** Sure thing.

  • @zacharybates1544
    @zacharybates1544 8 лет назад

    I have a 72 ford maverick, and I wanna keep the inline six, but do sorta what you did, with split headers.

    • @PatricioGarcia1973
      @PatricioGarcia1973 5 лет назад

      Zachary Bates I have a 76 maverick, running 6-1 headers to a 3” collector and exhausts out by passenger door, sounds like a Ferrari at full throtle

  • @sramos2
    @sramos2 12 лет назад +1

    What gear ratio is your truck's rear end? My engine is stock, single carb. I'd like to make it more highway friendly, what gear ratio do you recommend for mine? It is also stick shift stock tranny with granny gear...

    • @Romanrootergarage
      @Romanrootergarage 4 года назад

      My 51’ with a stock 411 rear end, I went with a 355 gear and now get 65-70 hwy speed

  • @calvincrews3885
    @calvincrews3885 4 года назад

    I could have one of those vehicles with the inline six cylinder engine and have fun with it and take it to a Road course sometimes too

  • @brandonstang5976
    @brandonstang5976 9 лет назад

    how much did it cost to do the trilple?

  • @freezerburn04
    @freezerburn04 8 лет назад +1

    Kudos bro, thanks for posting up wow!

  • @DJ61513
    @DJ61513 11 лет назад

    Hey Ryan thanks for the 411. I had been doing some research on before I ran into your video and you are completely right on everything down below. But looks damn good 2 though. Hahaha. I actually found the place Apex Automotive in Garden Grove. I'm here in the OC so not to far. Thanks again for your honest opinion on all of this. Getting married in June so can't really go crazy on anything for some time. That shit is the TIT'S though. LOL!!

  • @9876543212001
    @9876543212001 5 лет назад

    What kind of torque and ho do get ?

  • @joshuapalacio6047
    @joshuapalacio6047 5 лет назад

    What exhaust was on this

  • @jonathanludena1947
    @jonathanludena1947 7 лет назад

    What kind of transmission do you have on it?

  • @StarlightWorkshop0z
    @StarlightWorkshop0z 8 лет назад

    no need for extractors?

  • @TestTubeBabySpy
    @TestTubeBabySpy 5 лет назад +3

    Straight 6's are coming back arnt they

  • @bradleyryan1230
    @bradleyryan1230 4 года назад

    where did you get your manifold set up ? i have a 75 c10 with 250 inline 6

    • @rattycaddy
      @rattycaddy  4 года назад +1

      Bradley Sopko I found it from a vendor at the Pomona swap meet. If you really wanna go this route, try any of the main suppliers like Jim Carter. Or try Offenhuaser directly.

  • @infamousnova
    @infamousnova 7 лет назад

    How is the gas mileage?

  • @johncooper9976
    @johncooper9976 3 года назад

    Nice truck

  • @commando8088
    @commando8088 6 лет назад

    How much horsepower?

  • @9876543212001
    @9876543212001 5 лет назад

    Horse power ?

  • @briantedlos9441
    @briantedlos9441 6 лет назад

    Do you know if this engine came stock with hydraulic or manual lifters? I have the same 230 in my 63 impala SS.

    • @stephenandloriyoung5716
      @stephenandloriyoung5716 6 лет назад +1

      Hydraulic. But doesn't the 230 make it a Super-ish Sport? (Just a cheap shot, hoping for a grin.) One of my school teachers had a 63 SS convertible with a 327. I took the 230 out of my 64 Impala Sport Coupe (not Super) and put a 283 in - but given the chance to do it today, I'd keep the 6. The V8s are wonderful, but, like the past craze for silver cars, if everybody and their dog does it, it gets boring. Bored, bored, bored...

    • @briantedlos1804
      @briantedlos1804 6 лет назад

      I'm still trying to figure out if my 63 is an SS. Supposedly the original owner opted for the economy (V6). I did some digging on decoding VIN as well as the Cowl tag. My VIN says 31747 and Cowl tag says 631847 with Trim of 875S. Which translate to 63 V6 for the VIN and 63V8 for the body with bucket vinly/cloth/leather. So SS or just Sport coupe?

  • @RandyJurgens
    @RandyJurgens 11 месяцев назад

    Sounds great and looks good. 💯💯💯🇱🇷🇱🇷🇱🇷🇱🇷👍👍👍

  • @doctorzaius4084
    @doctorzaius4084 9 лет назад

    Wowww that is one fuckin sexy engine!!

  • @im4our312
    @im4our312 7 лет назад

    they made a 230 high torque after the 235

  • @jeosua
    @jeosua 13 лет назад

    very nice . This is what i want to do to my motor .

  • @chrisansell9246
    @chrisansell9246 6 лет назад

    272° cam on a straight six?? Must have no bottom end torque at low RPM's... sounds like it'll only run right at a circle track...

  • @militarychevy711
    @militarychevy711 11 лет назад

    I know that a mildly beefed up 292 will smoke a 350/250. Course the 292 is alot bigger than the 230 LOL! When cammed and with head work these motors turn into beasts. Just depends on what you want to spend you money on. :-)

    • @militarychevy711
      @militarychevy711 9 лет назад

      ***** Actually not true, though they are a taller block you CAN spin them as high, but the time it takes for a 230 or 250 to reach the same rpm is quicker than a 292. I've seen 292's do 8500 rpm.

    • @thghght
      @thghght 8 лет назад

      no you haven't. the "mean piston speed" for a 292" turning 8500 rpm is 29.98 mps; Formula 1 cars and racing motorcycles can only turn 27mps.

    • @militarychevy711
      @militarychevy711 8 лет назад

      Thghght Yes I have. You're the one that hasn't.

    • @stephenandloriyoung5716
      @stephenandloriyoung5716 6 лет назад

      Wow, really? The forces for destruction are incredibly high at that rate. Tell us more.

    • @spartanboss4189
      @spartanboss4189 6 лет назад

      @@thghght There was a guy that spun his 292 up to 11,000 RPM and shifted at 7,200 RPM

  • @stevejolinskiWorldWar3
    @stevejolinskiWorldWar3 9 лет назад

    sounds awesome

    • @MyNameHousefly
      @MyNameHousefly 8 лет назад +3

      +Red Dawn so it sounds awesome ;) Its harder to make HP with a straight 6 but way more rewarding

  • @donalddeanemcsemasterasecp1615
    @donalddeanemcsemasterasecp1615 7 лет назад

    Now Thats What Im Talking About !!

  • @albarths.r2817
    @albarths.r2817 5 лет назад

    Beast!

  • @markoberacher8191
    @markoberacher8191 2 месяца назад

    Sick

  • @olskool3967
    @olskool3967 Год назад

    cool!

  • @thomashuteson6191
    @thomashuteson6191 7 лет назад

    It's a hebby chebby !!!!!!!!!

  • @infidel556x45
    @infidel556x45 10 лет назад

    awesome

  • @eutimiochavez415
    @eutimiochavez415 3 года назад

    Good choice

  • @Darren...son4634
    @Darren...son4634 8 месяцев назад

    Throw a turbo on it twin turbo

  • @lebommjohnson8101
    @lebommjohnson8101 8 лет назад

    272, huh ? You got a 43ci boost w/a .030 overbore ? Maybe you started w/a 250, huh ?

    • @wymple09
      @wymple09 4 года назад

      30 over on a 250 only gains 4 or 5 cubes

    • @steevelevert6483
      @steevelevert6483 3 года назад +1

      272 cam....not CID

    • @wymple09
      @wymple09 3 года назад

      @@steevelevert6483 You are right, I missed that.

  • @Bige4u
    @Bige4u 8 лет назад +1

    Good job... but you could have gone with a single 600cfm holley 4bbl carb, its more than enough for that straight six.

  • @drumbeastgaming2327
    @drumbeastgaming2327 3 года назад

    I wish I had that carb set up

    • @rattycaddy
      @rattycaddy  3 года назад +2

      Its fun, but a nightmare to tune right.

  • @vernonsteinkamp1088
    @vernonsteinkamp1088 8 лет назад +5

    Wouldn't that be a 235? I haven't heard of a 230.

    • @rattycaddy
      @rattycaddy  8 лет назад +3

      Chevy made all sorts of straight sixes. They introduced the 230 in the 1963 and I think it finally got discontinued in Brazil in the early 90s. Chevy made a 292 6 which had a much larger stroke for more torque. The 235 was replaced by 230.

    • @vernonsteinkamp1088
      @vernonsteinkamp1088 8 лет назад

      Thanks I didn't know that.

    • @militarychevy711
      @militarychevy711 8 лет назад +5

      194,216,235,261 were chevys 1st generation 6 cylinders. Then they came out with a new line, 194,230,250,292 starting in late 62.

    • @LakotaOutlaw
      @LakotaOutlaw 7 лет назад

      How do I know which Straight 6 is in my 1961 chevy pickup?

    • @militarychevy711
      @militarychevy711 7 лет назад +2

      D L If it's stock it'll be a 235 or 261. Most likely a 235.

  • @garlitzhyperformancegarage8818
    @garlitzhyperformancegarage8818 8 лет назад

    That's so cool

  • @420-V.T.L-Machinist
    @420-V.T.L-Machinist 8 лет назад

    Sexy!! Want to do a custom Itb fuel injection system on my 292 for my 81 Camaro. Paired with a 5spd im going to make that puppy scream

  • @jonminnella2168
    @jonminnella2168 6 лет назад

    Nice

  • @yeoldepirate783
    @yeoldepirate783 7 лет назад

    I really want to do this !!!!!

  • @brettkelly1737
    @brettkelly1737 10 лет назад +1

    Sadly I've been yo DUI classes where guys have been given a DUI for standing in there driveway working on there cars drinking that's fucked up but it happens all the time

  • @rhostatton8944
    @rhostatton8944 3 года назад

    Clifford 6=8!!