Is There Such A Thing As Too Much Gorging? | Monster Train (Episode 65)
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- Опубликовано: 7 окт 2024
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Monster Train is a roguelite deckbuilder that is clearly inspired by games like Slay the Spire but also puts its own spin on the formula, including spawning minions and an emphasis on positioning. It's one of the year's most enjoyable roguelites so far so I decided to play some more of it. Check it out!
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About this game:
Monster Train is a strategic roguelike deck building game with a twist. Set on a train to hell, you’ll use tactical decision making to defend multiple vertical battlegrounds. With real time competitive multiplayer and endless replayability, Monster Train is always on time.
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You can tell the difference between buffs and debuffs by the colour of the ability underneath the unit
Red - Debuff (Sap, Emberdrain). Seraphim sometimes saps your units, so the card that removes debuffs is great against him.
Green - Buffs (Spikes, Regen)
Purple - Triggered abilities (Incant, Harvest, Resolve, Extinguish)
Yellow - Additional abilities (Burnout, Enchant, Endless, Haste, Relentless)
Too many colors
I think it's worth explicitly stating that the two categories you list as "Triggered" and "Additional" abilities are neither buffs nor debuffs, so the card does not affect them. It only removes red abilities from your units and green abilities from enemies.
NL, the spike driver colony only upgrades once you've gotten enough duplicates.
NL finally reads the text *POGGERS
Instantly skips the next text that explains how to get it upgraded...
He figured it out during a malf stream earlier this week, I guess that happened after this recording session
Why doesn't he just look up how to use it...
What does the upgraded version get, and is it worth it to upgrade the base versions?
@@moonbase19 like 30 episodes ago he favorited a comment explaining the event, i dont know what happened
Spikedriver Colony event with three possible upgrades? What luck! :D
edit: nevermind...
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
It’s pains me to watch him lose like that lol
It pains me to watch every episode ever since I've gotten way past covenant 25 but it's enjoyable seeing him learn
SO ENGORGED right now
Also, from someone who has a lot of covenant 25 wins: it's a lot more efficient to have one big floor with everything on it than it is to have 3 floors with one heavy hitter each. This is the biggest reason you keep dying to the last boss. Dripfall your 200 attack overgorger behind your champ...you'll only have one guy to heal, and the boss will be dead.
I do agree he should have dropped an overgorger behind his champ. For NL that was the best play based on his draw and upgrade choices. However, two or three floors with one big hitter on each is perfectly viable. I also have tons of covenant 25 wins and I do this a lot, especially with morsels. It just makes sense. His problem is that he never takes a moment to think things through. He adds plus 10 damage to overgorger (wasted slot 1000%), doesn’t upgrade his spider, fails to use morsels as damage shields when needed, etc. He has what he needs to win but the quick plays with no advance thought are killing him.
@@xCRUSH3Dx I can easily forgive the spider because you only know the right play (and upgrades) if you understand the card - and it's not explained clearly.
Oh god, 5 minutes in and he's already put +10 attack on the overgorger and rerolled a quick... NL, it's literally NEVER worth it to put an attack up on an overgorger. Overgorger wants: multistrike, quick, or health/damage shield. In that order. You can spend the rest of the run giving it attack, what it needs from upgrades is scaling and survivability, and quick actually works even better for survivability than health does since it means the gorger can kill a lot of enemies before they even attack!
I feel like NL consistently loses runs in the Merchant of Steel. He's always buying trash upgrades for units instead of looking for the 10/10 upgrades.
also not gettin that +10dmg and +10 hp +5 dmg for little one is also weird if u pick him up anyway ( idk what he does when upgraded by event )
He only "learnt" how Overgorger works 2 recordings ago, he probably still doesn't knows how the Overgorger operates, proof of this, he has never won with it, which is an insane idea.
It is such a simple concept, keep him feed, and give him more survival or spice (quick, trample, multi-strike), you just have to keep 2 things in mind and you win.
@@Doomroar Overgorger card was golden though.....
@Aishiteru Yo once you have 4 of them, Heph comes back to remove the extinguish trigger and grant them +20 attack. As per basically all concealed caverns stuff, this upgrade of +20 attack works even if all their slots are full, so getting stuff like health / health and damage upgrades is good on them. If NL had taken both the upgrades in that one shop and then duplicated it enough times, he'd have had 4 one-capacity 36/11 multistrike units, which I've gotta say make for pretty nice capacity fillers.
Giving + 10 damage as an upgrade to overgorger is such a waste of an upgrade slot
He does that all the time makes me wanna die
Needed plus 25 health
When I saw that, I skipped to the end to see if it would cost him the run... 😅
Multistrike Overgorger is such a great combo that it’s worth fishing for.
u should probably always seek multstrike + quick on him so he can kill everyone bfore they kill him :s
Won't play the spiders because "We don't wanna add them needlessly", but also won't upgrade them because "They'll get upgraded later."
Pick one, eggman.
Yeah. You need to upgrade them and then play them out so it duplicates the upgrades.
@@Ghostneedle1 Thanks, I know.
@@marcoluciani4790 I figured you'd know, this was more aimed at people who'd read your comment.
@@marcoluciani4790 When someone opens a comment with something like "yeah" it means they're agreeing with you, and just expounding or reiterating the point
He thought the game will upgrade them for him, and didn't know if the game's upgrade will carry over his upgrades or not. He was wrong, but that was his line of thinking.
Did this madman sacrifice an upgrade slot on his strongest late game unit for the equivalent of 5 morsel gorges?
NL is now FULLY AWARE of the Furnace Tap/Resin Removal synergy, yet still doesn't take it. Double stack that tap and remove consume, and have a frosted resin on stand by. That's 2 multistrike for your units each time they get drawn.
Fighting hard to grasp that defeat from the entrails of victory.
I'm WAITIN for when he takes Furnace Tap and experiences its true power. One day, danggit. One day
Man only if you had given Quick to the overgorger instead of +10 DMG
"Wait, you're dying?"
*plays a card that effectively changes nothing*
"you're STILL dying?!?!"
"couldn't draw a burnoutcard in 3 turns of draw"
32 card deck
Adding +10 attack on an overgorger is like sticking a piece of duck tape on a wall to make it stronger
I'm actually amazed that NL used the map. Do it more, your winrate will improve.
I called this run an L the minute he took +10 dmg on overgorger.quite the oof
If Nl sees a +10 dmg upgrade and all he has to upgrade is a 0 attack tank, you know damn well he will take it.. He would be much better served if he instituted a rule where he NEVER took, since even the few times it might be solid (Animus of Will maybe, Sweepers potentially) doesn't compare to the amount of runs he has punted due to taking garbage upgrades like that, wasting precious gold and unit upgrade slot resource.
Should've just smack another hp upgrade or a quick for the overgorger rather than a 10 dmg up. Dmg ain't really an issue with him.
Taking draw is an option my dude. You would have done much better with more card selection than with the added energy. Furnace tap is way better than you think, especially with a unit like the Overgorger.
"By the way, does this card ever get upgraded? Do I have to play it to get it upgraded?" I dunno, maybe you could actually read the event text to figure it out.
Upgrading the Spikedriver Colony (or the other card you can get in that event, for that matter), is ALWAYS the way to go, especially when it hasn't started multiplying yet. All of the copies will get the upgrade, and the event will upgrade them again ON TOP of that.
In fact, I only pick it when I think I will be able to upgrade it, and don't play it until I do. I don't even think it's worth getting if you don't upgrade it separately.
Also, it gets upgraded after you have 5 in your deck (which happens by playing it)
(just clarifying you need it to die 4 times to have 5 copies since the extinguish is what copies it)
Daily reminder that you seriously undervalue the draw artifact. You had ember cache and zero expensive spells, plus were relying on drawing burnout increasing cards, yet for some reason whenever it comes to the boss artifact your rationale is always worded as though extra draw doesn't exist.
"I actually think the further you get up covenant ranks, the train stewards become more important. But I still think advanced prototype is trash. That may legit be my most controversial opinion."
No buddy, definitely not the most controversial one.
Yeah, on the patch he played sure. but new prototype post buff is wild. lol
imo it makes them worth upgrading = u dont need to throw them away = u can throw away somethng far more useless, so that relic is decent, but yeah there are far better relics in the game, but some are terrible :s
for resin removal, it removes debuffs on you, and removes buffs on enemies. debuffs on you show up as a red icon (emberdrain, sap, DAZE, etc), buffs on enemies show up as green (stealth, lifesteal, rage, etc). yellow buffs like sweep or relentless can't be removed
This is a subtle hint that it's good to use on the top floor to remove daze. Very subtle. Extremely not obvious. Please remember this. Also good on the stealth boss, or those cards that buff you but also give emberdrain, or a sap seraph, or...
its also good against the Fel that gives rage
Betteridge's Law of Headlines: Any headline that ends in a question mark can be answered by the word no.
Spikedriver Colony is the best upgrade target, I'd even say it should have received multistrike instead of Overgorger. All its upgrades get copied when it dies, and the +20 attack upgrade the blacksmith does goes on top of them.
It's my favorite event. More than Dante.
Spikedriver Colony gets so broken with large stone and extra capacity.
Nah, overgorger is still better with multistrike
yeah nah overgorger is still better with multistrike. The strongest case you can make for them is being able to mold them back to get them stronger everytime
If your deck is heavily dependent on drawing certain cards...THEN CHOOSE DRAW!
And don't make it 33 cards
Choosing draw is a trap. His problem was that his deck was way too bloated with half the cards doing nothing useful. And heavy inability to adapt at all.
@@NessOnett8 No its not. Draw in this game, like in 99.9% of all card games, is generally strong no matter your deck. Being able to draw your key cards faster is just flat out good. If anything, the Energy option is a trap.
He snatched defeat from the jaws of victory
You gotta stop making your deck so big and also you should be give health morsels to the OG so that the life steal is better and he can survive damage heavy waves.
Enjoy the Melting/Umbra combo while you can, Brother. I'm eager to see how well you adapt to the recent patch changes.
Thanks for the content, NL. Stay safe.
At least Big Slime is amazing now and morsels make good meatshields to give him harvest triggers
@@gimmecat6251 How rude, that's no mere slime. I think you mean "Big S L U D G E". :D Sadly NL didn't get to play too much with the sludge, but maybe that'll change soon.
@@LostViking Big SLUDGE was always amazing. Just look at his hat. Only a true gentleman can pull that off.
What are the recent patch changes 😰😰
@@-Bente- among other things, morsels now "despawn" when eaten instead of dying, so they're no longer completely broken in Melting decks, though Umbra are also no longer totally crippled by enemies with harvest.
NL need to realize he will be punished by the time he gets to Seraph if he does misplays and thinks, "I misplayed but things are going alright." Cause then in his hubris he repeats the mistake.
Also kinda hard to draw your 3 burnout gaining cards in a 34 card deck.
Plus giving overgorger damage buff. Why rush perfection? He doesn't need it.
Trample on rector and not being concerned of how squishy your overgorger was lost the last fight. Almost there though.
You should move your camera up slightly so that your frame is center with the floor you’re viewing. That way it kind of looks like you’re opposite the boss.
It’s been a while since I have tuned into monster train. I am ready for the pog to be reinjected into my brain. I watch with anticipation.
Watch the last two brother
Same, brother
NL completely ignoring the -1 capacity and expecting no consequences.
Honestly NL there really weren't any misplays in spite of your lack of knowledge on what are buffs and debuffs for resin removal. Good job, almost had it
Plays umbra clan
takes reforms 2 random units in hope to reform his champion at probably 2 in a thousands chance
would be true pogness if that happens
the champion can not be upgraded or reformed as it is a champion and not a unit.
@@MrGhosta5 Champions are (special) units and can absolutely be reformed. They just can't be upgraded by the regular merchants.
Some tips and observations based on this run, other people have already commented most if not all of them but it's probably nice to have them all in one comment (I may forget some too Tbh). Sorry in advance for how long this is.
I will start saying that you did great and had some really good moments, like recognizing that the soul harvester would die because the rector had stealth, realizing that you should have made the overgorger eat morsels when you didn't on a boss and other things that you from 20 episodes ago would not have seen. Kudos on the progress! Now for the tips:
-Resin removal only removed debuffs and buffs, which are the red and green squared indicators respectively. Purple circles are triggered abilities and yellow squares are passive abilities, neither of these count as buffs or debuffs.
-Descend is useful to overstack a floor, for example once you are happy with how gorged your overgorger is, you can just descend him behind your champion. Obviously it's also useful to space enemies out, there was an occasion on this run where you could have had an enemy in the middle floor descended to your bottom floor and be killed by your champion, so he didn't hit your overgorger before dying.
-The cards that you get from the event that make copies of themselves only get upgraded by the event once you get enough of then in your deck (I believe 4 is the number but I could be wrong), it's always best to upgrade them as much as possible and then start making copies.
-When you have a unit that depends on gaining burnout you really should get a good amount of cards that do so, otherwise rng WILL screw you almost every run just based on the amount of battles there are, and it also helps them survive longer against bosses. On the same note, you should be careful when giving burnout to important units that don't already have it, unless you have a critical mass of burnout giving cards.
-A quick observation about overgorger, it's an amazing card and if you get it early at this level of covenant it is almost always a must take. That being said in later covenants even if you get it in the first level from a challenge, it's hard to make it work because of everything working against you, most of the time he doesn't grow quick enough and takes too much of your resources by the first flying boss fight and you end up dying there, so in those late covenants you should probably only take him if you already have a surefire way to best the boss even when you are using resources on him or when you have an insane amount of feeding going on.
-Finallly, whoever is trying to convince you that train stewards are good either doesn't know what they are talking about or is giving bad advice on purpose. They are just bad and the only use they have is support in early stages to block damage or give a bit more of damage, which can make the difference but more often than not it won't or it will be small and you would have won regardless. Once you get actually useful units you should remove them and only remove base useless spells first, like torches and restores if you are not using the rejuvenate Awoken. Even with the relic they are just not strong enough, only if you are playing awoken can they help you longer and only because awoken doesn't have units as strong as other clans by base, you really need to upgrade their units to make them strong, and EVEN THEN you probably want to have just one or at most two of them since you can't spend that much resources upgrading them over other cards in your deck.
Thank you for coming to my TED Talk
I have not seen the Overgorger in like 20 runs, NL get it like three time in a row. Not playing the Spiders was not ideal especially with extra upgrade slot, but not game-losing bad with having an early overgorger. The Problem was more that the deck was not focused enough. Not enough Burnout to keep the champion alive, and not enough (any?) backline damage so the Overgorger got pummeled by the small birds. Always prioritize HP and Multistrike on the Overgorger. Also not enough raw damage spells to kill the backline. Otherwise well played.
+10 damage on overgorger hurt my soul. And over QUICK.
u can always dup overgorger twice, he was stronk enough at 19:00 mark
Silence removes purple triggered abilities. Resin removal removes green enemy buffs and red ally debuffs.
+10 damage on overgorger is such a waste of an upgrade
I think the main benefit of watching NL playing a game I don't play is that I feel very little frustration and can barely notice misplays.
NL only green icons are considered buffs. Damage shield, spikes, lifesteal and maybe a couple others but just the green ones. Not the yellow or purple. And red are debuffs.
Too much gorging? Some would call It over gorging.
The continued disrespect of quick costing him units and runs is insane. When will you learn egg man!
This run died when he didn't take quick for the overgorger. TWO QUICK OVERGORGERS, can you imagine the pog.
NL is egg
Morsel says: "Pog!"
I feel like a dreg
In this monologue.
More missteps than a elementary school dance, never put + damage on the overgorger
Good thing the dev's agreed with NL and upgraded advanced prototype. Was useless after you hit higher covenants but should be more useful now.
On the last battle, you can put overgorger behind a tank
NL, Minute 15:55 you could Summon a normal attack Morsel, Descend it and Summon the Life Steal Morsel
Someone need to teach NL to not take every card he find in front of himself, to take draw instead of energy when he never had energy problems, upgrade at every round, delete some cards from his deck like Train Stewards as soon as possible, play the useless units on a floor where they die, read the events, upgrade spells like antumbra assault instead of cards that he never use, duplicate an upgraded unit instead of taking a plain unit from a banner, think a little bit before playing cards and not build a deck around a relic he doesn’t already have.
Look you're asking for a lot
Johnathon Abbott let’s compromise at least at one of those
@@Chiavica Also he actually spends TOO much gold on removal.
NL the way you play the spikedriver event is that you take the card and until you get to a merchant you treat it like a curse and never play it. Once you find a merchant you throw as many expensive and strong upgrades on it as possible. Then you duplicate it and once you have 4 or more the other part of the even triggers, upgrading all of them. Not only does this give hundreds of gold in upgrades for free but you also now have a bunch of extremely good low cost creatures in you deck that will likely win the run by themselves.
Advanced Prototype is easily one of my favorite relics. Getting a multistrike 2x damage shield unit out of the box is great especially when you have 4 of them on the early floors. In later Covs it is easily one of the most well regarded relics.
I am in the later covs, and it still is complete trash. I don't know why people are going so hard on this meme. It's bad. Train Stewards are bad. Anyone with eyes can see it.
Little does the game know, the more it crushes NL's runs, the more resilient he becomes... It's only a matter of time....
Lol! Immediately..! No boss can get through here! The boss gets through no problem.
The "spiders" and railspike events need you to get to 4 copies to get the upgrade, the spiders are pogged up, especially if you can buff them before duplicating them. Resin removal removes red statuses (like sap) from friendlies and removes green statuses from enemies (like lifesteal). the purple effects (like slay or harvest) are removed through silence.
That overgorger +10 damage was so paintfull to watch, i can understand quick but +10 .... just wait and try some multi. +10 is just insanly useless xD
Can't believe NL has never won an Overgorger run. (actually i can)
Commenting for statistical engagement really.
It’s not always reliable, but 4-cost cards are playable as the umbra if you’ve consumed a +1 energy morsel in the previous turn
I'd say that's generally not worth making the deck fatter, unless you're going for the energy upgrade. You win these games by reducing rng and increasing draw consistency
Don't forget to put morsels down for gorging even if the boss is dying. And Spikedriver Colony would have actually been fantastic duplicating, to fill your empty floor. Throw on some bonus damage, maybe some health, and they can pog out of control.
Some time ago he did the same thing with ignoring the railspike/colony. Last run he looked up the petrified skull event, giving us all hope just so he could throw it all away. My egg. My very scrambled boy.
Thank god for that +10 attack on the Overgorger
There is a card that removes Burnout, but it's not Resin Remover., it is the rare card Wickless Recruitment.
Great run and thanks for the company but this run lost because:
A: Not taking quick on the overgorger even though it's a perfect survivability upgrade from them
B: Not having aoe/backline damage to stop minions running you over with damage and support effects
C: Not taking draw as your second boss relic
Not upgrading the spikedriver colonies and then playing them was secondary but it would have helped you out.
All that being said I think his run was generally well played and shows that he's genuinely learning albiet slowly.
NL keeps priority picking Dripfall as if he needs more drip. Know your worth, king.
Underrated comment because you're targeting the wrong demographic
Circles are not buffs, squares beneath units are buffs/debuffs
FYI NL "We need holdover on our burnout card so our champ does not burnout" The double stack you just skipped right past could have done that too... given you 4 instead of 2 burnout. With a few cards removed this is enough to keep him alive.
AGAIN, take furnace tap, it is the best card in the entire game..
NL you really gave the overgorger +10 dmg upgrade instead of quick?! really.. he has +10 after the first TURN with his passive, quick will save him so much hp and with multi-strike later, he can clear the entire floor.
You should for sure upgrade the extinguish unit you got from the cavern, it becomes stronger later plus your upgrades, they can hold an entire run with like a large stone and dmg, then dupe 6 and you have two full floors of massive units. (you need 5 or 6 of them duped in your deck for the cavern to upgrade it too)
leaving a floor empty is actually one of the best things you have done this run, you don't get enough cards to play everything across 3 floors, this has lost you a lot of runs.
The quick upgrade on overgorger is the biggest mistake I think... could have easily won the run, with trample he flat out takes no dmg except from bombs.
7:43 Yo, what a coincidence! I got my final golden card today and it was a Spikedriver Colony.
Excited to see him play the new update for Monster Train
NL's Health Disrespect cost him.
Morsel: Pog!
NL: Pog!
Me: Pog!
NL, all upgrades are additive. So if something is going to get upgraded later you absolutely want to upgrade it as much as possible ASAP.
This includes the fallen event where you give him a card to hold for him to upgrade. You keep giving him trash and he gives you back meh. If you give him gas he'll give you back infinite pog.
give the driver colony quick and something else and they're insane
Im gonna preface this with the fact I am only at 22:30 and therefore don't know whether you learn or not how "Resin Removal" works. Any "Green Square" under a character is a buff, "Red Squares" are debuffs. Small side-note I like to put permafrost on my "Resin Removal" that way when I draw it, it will just sit in my hand until there is something I need it for and I don't have to worry about it being cycled through.
I had a bad feeling as soon as NL dropped damage +10 upgrade on Overgorger. That is NEVER the play. You only upgrade him with HP/Quick/Multi-Strike. A case could be made for Large Stone, but in later runs floor capacity is an issue. The misplays at the end hurt, but still proud of our egg lord. He should have had that.
Buffs are green squares under the enemies, Debuffs are red squares under your units, that's all!
Nl not understanding resin removal really keeps me going
"... Train Stewards get more and more important" Well, no. No they don't lol
After two stunning wins in a row, we get ourselves a slice of humble pie. I'm sure any issues I have with play have been stated by other commentators. It was v entertaining to watch!
I think sometimes it's still worth repeating them since he won't listen unless loads of people say it.
Great plays 👌 Just so you know, you just need to have 4 spikedriver colonies to get the upgrade
Puts trample on the melting champion with 150 damage when overgorger has roughly 450 damage (on the last fight). Also has no tanks in deck to protect his 3 high damage units (even if there’s not space for a tank on floor 3 there is in floor 2 and 1). Has a deck full of morsel creating cards and has excessive morsels regularly but still takes extra morsel cards. Takes intent on death with only one card that has an extinguish effect in the deck. Watch him not read all the comments on the ten damage buff on overgorger being a misplay and he does it again ten days from now.
Tbh I feel like having a 32 card deck is a little fat when your entire gameplay loop is getting burnout cards asap and just getting free morsels
the mistakes made hurt my soul but its all part of the process
@17:20 I'm so proud of you you actually noticed you could have given the overgorger more gorges! Even though you messed that up again I'm happy you're learning EGG boi
EDIT : JK you forgot again at 28:20 :(
Let's use this video to figure out how far back his backlog is with Wild Mutations launching 2 days ago...
Also seeing him misuse the Spikedriver Colony in two videos now really hurts my soul. That card can become a run winner all on its own.
Edit: Ohhhhhh the misplays on the Seraph fight. C'mon man
Why put Doublestack in a burnout-increasing Holdover spell? You were never going to let your champion get extinguished as soon as you got it the first time.
I really think NL would have a lot more fun if he read cards and events instead of speedrunning through and never checking back on his assumptions.
Furnace tap! I thought you loved multi strike?
0:29 Considering that how the Melting champion is named Egg, I'm certain that you would've seen the Rector no matter what. The only thing in question was if he was gonna be the 60-60 rector you meant. xD
Edit: That last stage play... Egg...I trusted you... Jeez. But to be fair you deserve that for not taking advantage of spikedrive colony with 3 upgrades :)
Not taking trials is losing you so many runs NL. It's probably why you lost an otherwise unlosable run.
It's not the "safe" option to avoid trials. It's in fact, quite the opposite. It's far safer to take them. Avoiding them just means losing slower.
He finally searched for a good camera position, i guess this series is going to episode 600 or something. Specially if he wants to cycle this out only after he reaches covenant 25.
The status effects are colour coded. I'm too lazy to look them up tbh but buffs are green, debuffs are red, neutral effects are yellow and then something something purple if I'm not misremembering. Hope this helps
Dmg shield quick on overgorger and he skips it. My man only needed multi attack and it was a won run
Not that it would've mattered in the end, but you give trample to the unit that does the most damage, especially if it's a 200+x2 Overgorger and most of that damage goes to waste otherwise, because you only hit twice. Even if it does kickstart your overgorger, +10 damage is peanuts in the long run, I mean you get that in one battle, making this thing a freaking tank is much more important
I dunno, the trample at the bottom wasn't actually that bad since his champion was sometimes trampling over the frontliners to kill the backline damage dealers, meaning it saved some damage on his overgorger.
Ah yes, chip throat. We've all been there.
Still enjoying the series very much, this is really a great game! We love your content NL :)
You would have won if you actually used spikedriver colony, or put quick on the overgorger
Let the pogging begin!
I’m saying it before NL gets the update, I LIKED BIG SLUDGE BEFORE IT GOT BUFFED. All you Big Sludge haters don’t come around now that it’s gotten an overpowered upgrade.
I don't know what NL thinks Spikedriver Colony does but I've never had a problem destroying worlds with them
I've never had the opportunity arise to have 4 upgrades on them but he be squanderin'
Did he waste Holdover on Purifying Cleanse instead of Engulfed in Smoke?
I don't think so. Stealth is useful but if you want your champion to stay alive you need that burnout. I think his real issue was having a 30+ card deck after the removal he did. Everytime he cried about not getting his holdover cleanse I just laughed because he had 17 cards left to draw 4 turns in