Sapped and Tapped | Monster Train (Episode 54)
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- Опубликовано: 7 окт 2024
- Check out Monster Train on Steam here: store.steampow...
Monster Train is a roguelite deckbuilder that is clearly inspired by games like Slay the Spire but also puts its own spin on the formula, including spawning minions and an emphasis on positioning. It's one of the year's most enjoyable roguelites so far so I decided to play some more of it. Check it out!
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About this game:
Monster Train is a strategic roguelike deck building game with a twist. Set on a train to hell, you’ll use tactical decision making to defend multiple vertical battlegrounds. With real time competitive multiplayer and endless replayability, Monster Train is always on time.
Time of death - 41:18
Cause of death - Using offering token on a deadweight
RIP Egghead
The comedic timing of him stating just moments earlier "This fight has been played pretty well" which, to be fair it was before he threw it.
He still doesn’t fully understand how to use offering cards.
He would have still won if his frostbite incanter blocked for the horned warrior
I don't think I understand either. What makes this a bad choice?
@@coolmanxl discarding deadweight does nothing. he had the option to discard his sap offering card which would have played it for free. getting -12 damage on a 10 damage unit that attacks 3 times per turn turns out to be better than doing literally nothing if you do the math.
Okay, but you’re officially not allowed to complain about the stygian champion if you don’t take one of the greatest stygian champion enablers in the first 15 seconds of your run
Everyone is allowed to complain about Stygian because garbage belongs in the trashcan
It's not like NL to go for a +40 Health over a 2x damage. His play with stygian is so much more defensive than is normal for him, even when stygian is yelling "I am a glass cannon build".
well he also didnt take any spell damage, to proc spell weakness from his hero :s
Or forgetting one of the better synergies with an endless imp, self destruction through Torch, it's more useful to pump up his frost defender with the endless armor imp then to place the imp in front itself, giving him 15 armor per turn meaning X more opportunity at applying frost.
And then he takes the damage spell discount on his spell weakness enhanced champion... Not realizing that you're never going to have a chance to cast those cheap removal spells on targets with spell weakness, because they'll leave the floor when it's applied
Literally skips out on the best artifact for the Stygian guard... for a 40 hp boost to the pyre?!
litterally picking the worst over the best lol
He needed that extra health in the end anyway and probably wouldn’t have utilised the artefact properly. The worse you are as a player the more important extra health is to make up for the mistakes. In NL’s case the right play is for him to take extra health every time 😂😂😂
Whether or not he wins, I just hope both teams have fun.
The forces of heaven have certainly been having a great time
Good people on both sides.
They both have ballplayers.
What a wholesome take. Well done 12/10 swipe right
thanks dad
Did anybody else gasp when he didn't discard Guardian Amulet?
You mean the moment he threw 8 spell weakness out the window along with the win? Yeah I did.
My heart stopped... part of my soul died there
NL, on a Spell Weakness build, Inferno is an absolutely awesome card. (Costs 3, does 100 piercing damage to all units on a floor) It destroys all non-boss units with just 1 spell weakness, and kills most bosses with only 3 or 4 spell weakness. You skipped it twice this run, without even considering it.
I don't think hes ever actually taken inferno lol
Inferno is an amazing card.
If you can get holdover on it, just leave the first floor empty (or yeet your bad units) and you're set.
Was an awesome win the first time I tried it.
Agreed, Inferno is an awesome card, especially with holdover.
For some unknown reason NL loves to just fill every floor with whatever trash units he gets his hands on lol and just thinks of it as a friendly fire card that will kill his own units.
@@killisys With a spell weakness champ, I would just tank up the bottom floor with both the Shield and Frostbite tanks in front of the boss, then empty second floor for Inferno, and Demon top floor. It would have went fine.
@@killisys Inferno with hold over and a cost reduction can almost solo win the game, especially if you are able to copy it. You only need something to kill the big bosses with, such as Frostbite, spikes, or Spell weakness. Wicked good card.
0:59 "That's a mature decision."
Unfortunately, it's not so much a mature decision as much as it is a decision to avoid winning the run.
that decision didn't lose the run though :P
It hurts to see Scuttlebeard just being tossed to the side.
Same. I’ve never actually rooted for him to lose before. But you can’t disrespect Floor 1 Cuttlebeard like that.
Scuttlebeard, the leading cause of death for bosses who don't make it to the final round.
In hindsight scuttlebeard would have been invaluable this run 😂
Skipped cuttlebeard for pyre health? What!?!?
"That's a mature decision"
It kept him alive !! He would’ve died otherwise
EXC Fontec he would have already killed they before they got to the pyre
it wasn't his rationale, but the cleanse seraph would have decimated the frostbite stacks anyway.
I don't respect squid
He always rushes through his offering token pick. Like EVERY TIME.
Frostbite is literally the best boss-killer in the game. The stygian champion alone has carried me through many a run
I still feel like the 150/150 melting champion is better in every way though.
Ya, when I see frost relic I always aim to get the stygian frost defender. Then you make the defender endless with extra HP. Start him on the first floor and make sure you leave room to put him back down during the boss rush. Or even better, since he is endless, the death of said unit doesnt matter, so even if they die on the first floor you just place them back down at full HP ready to take another beating.
Spikes go brrr
@@The_K0ala The spiked awoken unit is arguably up there amongst the best boss killers, but I'd say Stygian is still better due to how well frostbite stacks.
There's also lodestone, which is just ridiculously strong.
@@pasty609 40 frostbite is higher dmg from the 4rd hit onwards.
When I see a 43 minute long monster train: so you're saying there is a chance
Hey NL, try not to put your totems (glacial seal) at the back end of your floor. It doesn't change much against normal waves, but against bosses, putting it in front of your champion let's it tank a couple of attacks, letting your champ apply more stacks of frostbite/spell weakness! It doesn't actively do anything during combat if it doesn't have any attack, it just sits there!
The exact comment I was looking to see
And also, why to get Incant tank on higher floor when it synergies with your champion and glacial seal!
After not taking cuttlebeard + chillwind NL deserves everything that's coming for him this run and does not have the right to diss the stygian champion anymore
He stops reading ancient synergy before the part that answers his question.
Hilarious. Just mystifying why it hit all 3 units
it's almost like you expect card text to be read
funny guy
@@nikodemossowski4621 After watching NL for years, I've come to accept that he seems to take this rather "approximate" approach to his gameplay, either because he likes to go fast or doesn't care so much about it, but it's the way he is. Sometimes it's infuriating because he misses something that's just literally in front of him that's the size of a rhino, but it's how he rolls. He's not a min-maxxer by any means. He still gets great plays out, they are just overshadowed by that kind of play.
NL, just as a side note...you GROSSLY underestimate draw in this game. I'm not saying you always need to take it, but it may be beneficial to consider it more often. It is extremely helpful in many cases.
Edit: The deadweight discard instead of Guardian's Amulet was so painful. :(
"It's not spell weakness 2. It's apply spell weakness twice as quickly." -- John Madden, probably.
If you need the extra pyre health to get to the final boss, you're going to lose anyways. Frostbite not decaying is soooo strong
I vigorously neglect my pyre for this exact reason
Even with cleanse seraphim?
Not at all the case. You need 1 hp to win, having 34 more to spend early means getting upgrades before the duplicate nodes that you can use to snowball hard.
While you are correct that it was probably a suboptimal pick, this exact run proves your first sentence wrong. By the end NL had 17 pyre health so he would be dead without the upgrade. And had he not horribly misplayed offering on the first wave of the boss fight, he would have won. It's likely that Cuttlebeard would give him the win and do it much more easily, but it's clear that he was able to leverage the additional health to get to a winning position before throwing it all away with the worst misplay of the run.
When you have the “damage per spell in your deck card”, you should probably pick spells for your deck.
Ya strategies tend to fall apart when you put in to many cooks. He was relying on a mix of spell weakness, frost defense and then hitting hard but not applying enough spell weakness to make those hits count. The deck bloat also hurt since it didn't allow him to use those potent spells he needed, if his reliance was on using potent spells especially on a final boss it would benefit him to permafrost the card he wants to keep and hope he gets it before the 3 wave before the pyre.
You were so close NL! Just remember to look for offering at all times instead of instantly discarding the dead weight. Was so excited once I saw you could do it with the sap and probably win just for you to instantly go to the curse. Offering first, Curses second.
Making the imp endless was perfect although I would recommend using him to tank up a front unit killing him with a torch and playing him behind again and again would give you armor to the front unit
NL, frostbite doesn't decay. *It doesn't decay*
Imagine stacking frostbite upon frostbite to the boss with an additional +2 per stack! It just keeps dealing damage for every turn for free!
"So we dump deadweight" and then the realization.
Also ignore cuttlebeard again and i WILL throw hands.
Not playing the sap card at the end was the moment I died a little inside
He would have won.
"Helical crystals to do well with spell weakness"
Just for the record NL, your spell weakness strat's main concern is big hits on an isolated boss. So the 20 base damage x3 is better than the 25 x2. Especially since you can easily up the base number, so multiplying any increases three times as opposed to two is better.
Helical is fine, but if your main concern is the big boss hit, ice tornado is far more valuable.
Also Ice Tornado is just a banger card that I think is generally better than Helical Crystals
There is no reason to put Glacial Seal (with extra HP on top of that) in the backline. Its useless in relentless. If NL had played it in front of the multistrike demon he would have won.
That enormous misplay in the first 10 seconds taking objectively the wrong relic is...worrying.
NL is now making decisions he KNOWS are wrong(He's played enough roguelikes and deckbuilders to know taking flat health first is a terrible choice) because he's scared. Seems like it's inevitable he's gonna keep making terrible decisions out of fear. And also doing the same failing strategies over and over because he's afraid to try new things and uncover what he's doing wrong.
I’m pissing myself laughing when you got the sweep boss after you gave your champion rage
So I think the first choice of the game was where things started to go wrong
23:07 he still puts the 26hp rock behind his 8hp squish champ
please stop putting 0 attack units behind your champion
Really proud of NL's play in this one! I know Stygian is like his least favorite clan and yet he took it to the end like a Champ here!
NL if u take spell weakness hero, take some high damage spells like that inferno(u skipped completely the reward) cause hoping for one spell in your 25 card deck to rotate just in time, espcecially when u have no draw is far too risky
The disrespect for inferno is real. NL, right before you passed on inferno (deal 100 piercing damage to the entire floor), your champion gave the boss 12 spell weakness. An unupgraded inferno would have hit him for 1200 damage. It also allows you to wipe a floor or enemies early before you have had the chance to build on it. I doubt you will see this comment but if you do just take one thing from it.
"If you make Inferno cheaper twice, it becomes 1 mana deal 100 damage to a floor, ignore armor." That is all.
I truly believed in the win, despite the misplays. Knocking on the door to victory
Look NL, these runs are still a great time to watch and thank you for the entertainment. But it's a little grating to hear complaints about the Stygian when your decisions with them are consistently... questionable. Still, it's great to see you learning and good luck in the next one!
NL. You play enough of these games you shouldve learned by now. A one time boost to anything (HP, Damage, draw) is rarely if EVER better than a scaling repetitive bonus. I literally have never played this game. And I would have picked Scuttlebeard over pyre health. Come on maan
Let the egg learn! We don't watch him for mlg plays we watch him to see the laat second throw reaction
@@TheILChrias95 Maybe you watch these videos to get frustrated, I don't.
Loving the series NL, keep the pogs coming! I only wish you had played the Sap on the final wave, bottom floor, I think that hurt.
Oh my gaaaaaawd, that literal ONE misplay sent ya down to Anti-Pogville!
Yo if you had taken inferno and put frozen on it and saved it for the floor after your champion put spell weakness 200 billion on the boss. That would've been hella sick nl
I’m still freakin POGGED dude
I stalled out at Covenant 20 myself
Frostbite not decaying is legit one of the best relics to get as a starter,
You shouldn't put glacial seal in the back because it does no damage, if you put it in front of your champion then it could have tanked some hits to let your champ do more damage and apply more spell weakness which can be a game changing factor
I think that if you have an endless Welder Helper, you want it to die as soon as possible to get it back. It gets in the way of drawing your good damage spells, but you'd still rather draw it than one of your torches or frozen spears. If it's in the front, and going to die, try not to save it. Also, remember that you can put Welder Helper in the back and give 15 armor to one of your tanks instead. Then you can just torch the Welder Helper, saving you a space and letting you play it next turn.
The banner after Daedalus is the last chance for a unit, btw.
Just once take Inferno, leave bottom floor open, discount it, and feel the magic.
Can't lie NL, the number of game-winning options you avoided this run is staggering.
You grazed victory. So close. I was pulling for you hard in that final fight brother, good effort.
Tips:
Ancient Synergy did 38 dmg to the front unit THREE times, so it hit all 3 units because it one shot them all one by one 160 dmg ish total, just read the last 2 words on the card lol.
Also you really don't need 3 tanks and 3 floors full of units... it just makes your draw inconsistent and wastes so many resources trying to keep them all alive, so much easier to play all your cards on the bottom floor and then nuke anything that gets past.
Adding rage to your champion every turn would one shot every floor, then you don't even need the other floors, could pickup an armor card to keep him alive against sweep enemies.
Don't play half your cards against the support enemies and then AOE them to death anyway lol, could have taken 2 more seconds to think that through.
Put glacial seal in front of your champion as a mini tank.
Think of support units as mini tanks, they don't need to live longer than your dps, would have made a difference.
Discard your sap offering instead of dead weight... would have won so easily. :*(
Hey NL when playing Stygian you want to very meticulously plan out your floors ahead of time to fit a very specific gameplan. IE; if you go spell weakness sweep on the champ you want to look for other sources of spellweakness, and then stack that on the first floor. Then you want to set up incant units on the second or third floor because that's where you'll be able to actually cash the weakness in. Conversely, if you go cost reduction on the champ, you might want him on the second or third floor, while having your spell weakness on the first floor. You never want to give him both stats because you can't use the discount and the spellweakness together, because the enemies will leave after he attacks them.
Also, when you go for a spellweakness strategy, one of your number 1# priorities should be to get a card like hellical crystals, upgrade it and then duplicate it. Ideally you instantly clear all enemies on the second floor by playing a card like that each turn. You also want to purge cards like torch, because they're useless deadweights that will steal spellweakness from more impactful spells
Here's a thought to have about Welder Helper. Let's say you have an enemy doing 20 damage with sweep, and 1 unit with 10hp. If you play Welder Helper up front as a "shield", both of your units die as you have a unit with 10 hp and a unit with 16 hp effectively. However, if you put the Welder Helper in back, you now have a unit with 25 hp effectively and an imp with 1 hp. In this case, the imp will die but the other unit will survive and be able to attack the enemy that hit it! A good example of this coming into play would be around 20:40 or so. Since your imp had actual attack due to rage this does change the situation a bit too, but this is just a general tip and not a specific one. Now it's not always best to put the Welder Helper in back, sure. Sometimes it does actually make a decent shield. But when against sweep enemies, it may be a good idea to put it in the back.
Tip: You should be putting the plus 10 spell power upgrade on weak but good spells (Horn Break kills most armoured units with 1 upgrade, Cut Purse or whatever that gain 50 gold on slay card is) rather than spells that are already high damage.
cuttlebeard is a run winning relic, pyre hp is a run extending relic.
Blew it at the end! Respect the sap!
To repeat some comments here:
not taking the frostbite relic instead of pyre HP is why he lost. It's one of the best for stygians.
And I think health isn't as good in Monster Train compared to Slay the Spire. StS has a lot of percentage-based heals which means that getting health early gives you more value out of healing over the course of the run. Monster Train seems to only have flat heals and damage, so 40 health is literally just 40 health.
NL lost because of offering misplay and he noticed it.
Straight up, he lost because of dumping the dead weight on the last turn. Possibly he could have won more easily with other routes; but it's not like he was super far away here.
Ryan. 3 things.
U put the totem behind your champion. Especially when it has more hp. It's not gonna benefit you when the boss comes.
The first artifact can literally decide your run. And you picked hp.
Also the endless imp strat is good as it's utility + body shield. But not for welder who you want to die but can't because he armors itself. You want him as just utility then u sack him and draw them next turn.
Pro tip When given a banner and creature forge, always look at the forge so you know what upgrades are available.
The head taps at the end redeemed a lot of mistakes, imo
All aboard the train baby *woo wooooo*
Since I've been waking up earlier I find myself constantly checking for the new upload
Ooooo So close!
HAHA NL that realization at the end was great. Eggcam has been truly blessed
My man has taken DRAW upgrades! What a glorious day!
It was soooo close! It will come eventually, since NL is realises his mistakes
I'm sorry to say I didnt watch this run just because of the choice of relic. Mind you I had it muted and finished the video while doing something else for eggmans algorithm etc. but I just couldnt.
If you watched this video, then you would have known that this was an easy W until he decided to use offering token on a deadweight instead of Guardian's Amulet on the final boss.
There's no single right way of playing this game.
Eh then again, that might not have caused the loss if he had taken tentacle relic, but I get your point. Definitely there's a lot of avenues to win and lose, thats in part what makes this genre of game so interesting to me, but that first decision was just a bit too offputting... Another clarification I love Northernlion and his content and dont want it to seem like I'm being negative towards him with what I said, otherwise I wouldnt have bothered to try and give him support by still technically "watching" the video.
Not using the welder helper to put armor on his revenge tank is fucking killing me, man.
i cannot stop consuming this content
Note the one fight where you put your incant + armor shark in front of your champion, the fight went really well. That's a great combo when you have spell cost reduction especially with card draw. Lots of spells, lots of incant triggers, lots of armor.
Oh no dude. Oh no. The sap card. You had it. You won. And then you didn't.
hard to not think about the little missplays when it all came down to the wire.... At least you keeping getting closer!
Proud of you on this one. You were so close and it's cause you slowed down to think! I was listening and started to worry when you said 'this always goes here.'. That's not how monster train works! Any one move can be the one that ends your run. Cov 18 is no joke. See you in the cov 20 club before too long
Watching him turn down inferno twice didn't feel good.
Oh man I feel discarding that deadweight instead of that offering sap actually mattered
He finally built a spell focused run! and it worked! hopefully this marks the end of stygian slander.
I think it would be better to put your frost bite totem in front of your champion. In a boss scenario it's doing nothing in the back, so it would be more useful taking that extra one or two hits so your champion can attack again.
My most dominant high covenant wins were with the stygian. Many ways to push the needle in their run.
You gotta respect the frostbite. As said a million times, not taking that relic at beginning was pushing the needle backward. The armor imp with endless works great with your revenge unit, that is if you give the armor to your revenge unit and kill the imp with a fireball each turn.
Hang in there, we should see every pair win at covenant 25
The Stygian champion that reduces cost of spells should not be on the bottom floor. They should be mid so that you can get spell weakness on the bottom floor and weaken sweep units before they get to the champion.
Daily Monster Train advice nobody asked for (Day 2):
It is better to place the Incant Stones on the same floor as the Guard of the Unnamed for the double Incant-power. Placing the Titan Sentry on the Bottom floor to kill weak enemy units is decent but you are already killing weak enemys with your Champion's Sweep. Thus having a potentially better tank in the form of the Guardian of the unnamed in front of your Champion who synergieses with the Gurdian Stone and the Glacial-Seal which all do fit very neatly in a 5 Capacity floor is better than killing weak enemys with the sweep and also apply Frostbite on them.
Stay tuned and have fun playing!
35:37
Here i would probably have given Frenzied Swarm Holdover and one less ember.
Having a floor dazed each turn can be really powerful and it's a great enabler for your offering cards!
Pog
You can see what boss you're going against before every fight. You don't need to guess what they'll do as you did against the sweep boss.
That missed sap hurts. It hurts so bad. Great run though and best of luck on your next one.
EGG ENDING WITH A SMILE ON HIS FACE! THAT'S WHAT I'M HERE FOR!! PPOG
Hey NL, love the series guy! Keep up the good work :)
NL please for the love of god check the final boss AND each individual boss before you go into the fight. You would have known that that boss had sweep
Egg, my good man, yeet the Torches when you have an Incant unit, Frozen Lance can be played without a target Torches can't
Oh, the irony of NL talking about the allure of the "left-hand path" in a game where you're controlling the forces of the underworld in a trip through Hell. :P
I get that people are upset about him taking pyre health at the beginning but I don't think it was such a bad choice. Pyre health is really useful in later covenant ranks, and hey, he almost made it, if he hadn't had that extra health he would've tapped out much earlier. I don't think it was that choice that cost him the win here, it was a misplay here and there, probably the sap one on last stage. There were lots of good plays made as well.
@@BanzaiBasher Well, you do have a point, quick damage build up at the beginning does prevent Pyre damage long term. Still, he almost had it anyway so I think he didn't play that bad overall, just not careful. Higher covenant ranks don't allow for much misplay. Scuttlebeard would made it almost a sure win.
Imagine putting endless on a Welder Helper instead of your Titan Sentry.
That was such a close run. Nice job.
So, a few things:
40 pyre health is no way better than the frostbite enabler, probably ever, even if you had 1 pyre health because 40 isnt enough to save you late game.
You had a lot of order of operations errors on damage calcs due to spell weakness. Spells that hit multiple times (like ancient synergy or helical crystals) are AMAZING with spell weakness because spell weakness procs multiplicative damage equal to the weakness rating for a singular spell, and, for example ancient synergy, was doing 48x3 damage. So really, ancient synergy was doing on spell weakness targets ---> 48x3xSpell weakness, AND------->
As long as each individual proc of (x3) kills a unit, the game conditionally checks for the next unit in front prior to procing the next hit (think multiattack on the hellhorned units you love so much). So as long as the units in a line have a health integer less than the damage proc integer, (either due to base damage or spell weakness) you can kill as many units in a line as their are procs of the spell, for example 2 units with helical and 3 with ancient synergy and 5 with ice tornado.
Finally, the holdover play was a good idea, and if you had offered the sap as you found out too late, you wouldve built up enough procs of spell weakness for your ancient synergy to kill I would have to imagine. I think you were only off by 1 spell weakness since each spell weakness is essentially another 142ish damage.
There are a lot of good targets for holdover. I personally like pyrebound. At first, there seems to be better targets, and in certain fringe cases there are, but IMO the condition of (must be played on 3rd floor) is actually very good, here's why:
This condition is very limited, thus the spell must be balanced around this. *It only costs 1 energy due to the condition.* You're saving the spell weakness until youve reached the maximum amount you can apply anyway, so there is no need to play whatever big spell you choose early. Finally, and again back to the cost, *the only upgrades you'd need on the spell to make it work is holdover (uncommon but doable) and (cost **-1, which is almost always in the shop).-*- This means at worst you have to scroll up to the 3rd floor and play a 0 cost spell on nothing each turn to make sure it stays in your hand, and occasionally, is still used to hit big targets (like those 160hp tanks) when they finally get up to the 3rd floor, once again- for free. This way you can guarantee a 90 base damage spell to be used on any target on the 3rd floor *at all times after its initial draw.* Do some basic math and find that if you can manage 10 spell weakness, you can manage 900 damage on the target, and at 20, 1800. And that's assuming the rest of your deck is not outputting any damage on the boss, which is probably never the case.
You are very close with the stygian, and what made me happy to watch this loss is that you really felt like you were enjoying the run, and therefore not tilting off the earth and really trying to make the stygian work this time.
Keep it up egghead.
Oh and if anyone sees some bad math above feel free to correct me but I'm pretty sure thats how it works.
NL making two obvious misplays at the start (along with the artifact thing). The comments will remember that.
Ancient synergy is one of the best spells there is
No holdover on double cast Guardians Amulet lol That one card could have single-handedly carried you Eggman
Endless on the Titan Sentry is very good value.
*keeps putting incant shark bro on second floor away from where incants happen*
*struggles*
*is forced to put armor incant shark bro on first floor during fel fight*
*dominates*
*puts incant shark bro on second floor*
*struggles*
Still super close, marching the incant rock to the front at the end was a super good play if you had the energy to do Sap and make sure your kill spell got held over too. You should have been putting him in front of your sweep unit right off the bat because having him in the back doesn't let him tank for anything.
That sap miss at the end hurt
Yooo, my daily dose of snacktime POGS has cometh.
Put the glacial seal in front of your champion. It has no attack, so it should tank on the relentless wave. Its not like you can cast spells in the middle of that wave anyway.
Hey NL, doublestack sap holdover is one of the best combos in the game because even if enemies get to your pyre they won't deal any damage if they're sapped enough - pyrewings (emberdrain) also doesn't apply emberdrain if it's sapped enough so it's a good strat to combat that specifically
EDIT: It's also so good against multistrike enemies i.e. Seraph, and is worth prioritising over damage in a lot of instances
Endless Welder Helper would be better behind a tank giving it the armour, you then torch it and repeat next turn
The spell power and spell cost reduction effects on the stygian champion really do not stack well. You want to play your damage spells the floor AFTER your champion so having them be cheaper on the floor with the champ is counter intuitive.
I may not be a smart man... But I know what POG is