The O-grade system needs an Adam Ondra simulator, after you enter the data on the route, you watch the simulated Ondra climb it, complete with grunts and screams, and out pops an O-number.
Aww, as a non-climber I just want to tell you I'm a big fan! You're like two charming, athletic northern British sloths just hanging around upside down on rocks and ceilings. The Cellar is the perfect compressed space for content, with or without guests. I just have one request: as an outsider I love all the adorable inside-climbing-terms, so please do a long-form-video where you discuss the climbing lingo like "pump", "send", "sandbagging", "flash", "proj" etc. etc.
I think the easiest and by far the most simplest method would be to get a high resolution digital scan of the climb using drones and radar sensors, as well as motion capture data of the climber and of course data points like heart rate, perspiration, O2 saturation, then feed that into a simple Wix or Squarespace template site, and it spits out that it's an O0 grade.
Could you possibly have a discussion about upgrading grades. I've found that lots of climbs in the peak district (as I climb a decent amount here) seem way too hard for the grade but no one will upgrade the climb because that's just how it is. I feel there's a culture here around downgrading, and no one wants to suggest an upgrade. Furthermore lots of limestone problems have been polished over the last 30/40 years which can definitely make it a half a grade or so harder. Even in the new peak bouldering guide I can recall multiple 7b's that I had done (that's near my upper limit at least) being downgraded to 7a+, which for some problems definitely seemed unwarranted.
I was a bit skeptical at first, but after spending some time plugging in some classic boulders according to their breakdowns, I was surprised to see that every single time, the calculated grade it gave me was within a plus or minus grade. This is a super neat tool for me, and I can see myself using it to get a better understanding of approximate grades of stuff within my project range that consist of sections I can do in isolation.
@19:34 Tom Random's thoughts as he scratches his neck: "As we sit here saying that grading other people's routes is a bad practice, I wonder if anyone will remember that video from Lattice, where I called James Pearson's route 'The World's Hardest Trad Route' a few months ago. Nah, I didn't put a number on it, so I technically didn't grade it, should be fine." 🤣🤣 . ruclips.net/video/TW_1n80RlOk/видео.html
Kickstarter idea: make a digital twin of Adam Ondra and start 3D scanning all routes across the globe. Then assemble those two together in a simulated environment and just let Adam climb everything. The output is an O-grade for all routes in the word. Should be pretty straightforward and feasible with today's technology.
It's a known fact (at least by me) that Ondra disagrees with Darth Grader on certain routes. For instance Vasil Vasil. He prefers O-grades (ok, that's not sure).
We need to get a 3d scanner attached to a drone, and use it to map the whole route and give you the grade. The top climbers would save so much time and wouldn't have to do all that training, as they wouldn't even have to climb it to tell us what the grade is.
You should try a modern route using all old school gear, ya know the OG Chouinard starter set of "chocks", a pair of Fir'es , a Troll harness, and a twsited nylon rope.... and see how it grades! Climbing 5.9+ in the 70's was quite a feat, much much easier today, because of the gear.
In Darth grader, for grading a route you still have to grade its sections. And that remains subject to the same subjectivity and therefore controversy. Also the definition of 'good' or 'bad' rest is subjective and controversial: how good a rest is depends on how fit and strong you are (ask Ghisolfi)
It's not like sponsors are going to be asking have you sent X number of V16s or whatever, but it is obvious that sending super hard stuff is a way for people to build a social media following
Can't wait to see the ritualistic safe burials :D. I think you have a slight editing error at 16:15 : The animations are there but the first few stills are missing.
Everyone's going to have a different experience on a given climb. The real future should have robots doing the routes and telling you how hard YOU'D find it.
I look at the Wide Boyz crack gloves everytime I pass the climbing gym shop, but I can't bring myself to pick them up as it feels too much like cheating
Theoretically, I think it's legitimately possible to create a tool that analyzes 3d scans of a route and runs through a model that grades it based on the physicality of it (i.e. distance of holds, difficulty of individual holds, etc.). The model could be trained based on scans of existing routes and grades, and based on 3d generated routes.
I was looking into the 8a.nu data for the O-grade, but I'm not finding the number of tries or number of sessions so I don't think it can be done automatically. There is the flash/onsight info vs redpoint, but that would only give us if it's a O0 or O1+
I've setup a lot of boulders and routes now, and I do wish the grading system was better. A universal system would be great. I still think E grade + Font grade is my favorite system, encompasses the whole trip and peak difficulty. A universal, more encompassing grading system would be great.
One aspect where downgrading is especially relevant compared to upgrading is that new beta can be found that makes it easier. Generally in that case the first ascentionist will just agree with the new grade. Alex Megos's bibliographie is the essential example. If I remember correctly Stephan Ghisolfi downgraded it to a 9b+ because of easier beta on the crux boulder problem but more or less agreed that how Alex climbed it, it was a 9c. Seeing as climbing is already the art of climbing up a rock on the hardest possible, I actually have no problem adding stipulations to increase the grades of already established routes but my impression is that take is pretty antithetical to climbing and does overcomplicate things a fair bit.
I think people give extra credence to downgrades by second ascensionists because they know that climbing something that's never been climbed before can be psychologically harder than repeating something. Their experience of a climb will be much more like the second ascensionists in that respect, so that grade will more likely describe the climb for them. But maybe I'm giving folks more credit than I should.
Im pretty interested around what grade people feel comfortable grading climbs. Im climbing 6c+ but i never really feel comfortable challenging grades in toplogger. I also haven't climbed for that long, maybe thats a bigger factor. So my question for anyone interested in sharing: What grade do you climb, how long have you been climbing and do you feel comfortable challenging grades?
8 years, 7b max. Challenged my first 7b (climbed 2 years after starting), saying it was 7a+ max and was proven right by the later consensus. I don't mind giving my opinion, knowing it can be utter rubbish. Doesn't stop it feeling real for me. I onsighted a supposed 7a+, which felt like a 6c, and said so. The good thing is at my level no one pays attention to what I think. That's why I choose to remain low average 😂(this is NOT a comment on people who climb softer grades, btw, just how I perceive my own level).
If grades should be updated as technology improves as Tom argues, then shouldn’t they also be updated as more people climb them and the holds become significantly worst?
The problem with the majority opinion is most climb in soft gyns, so grades get watered diwn. 5.12 from the 1980's is way harder than one from the last 20 years. SNS
You know the thing you said about a climber not grading causes they don’t feel they have a good sense of the grade. I went to a screening of Sleeping Lion and Chris Sharma said something similar about his early establishments
I believe that the tool is meant to help people break things down that are at/past their limit. For example, let's say I've found a new outdoor project. I have only ever climbed a V6 outside, and I send the stand start that is established at V5. I have now found a sit-start link that feels about the same difficulty as the stand start in isolation (V5), but I can't link the two sections together and I want to know the approximate difficulty. I think this is where the calculator comes in handy; I can plug in the sections I know the difficulty of to get an approximate grade for the whole climb which is outside of my knowledge-base for difficulty. Though subjectivity will still be involved, I think this will be a helpful tool for people establishing routes and boulders that are outside of the realm of what they're comfortable grading on their own.
Tom Randall, at t=9m37s "But we could have an online tool that made [inputs to climbing grades for inputs to climbing grades]" Me: Yeah, no problem, all you have to do is create a simulation of a universe with beings that develop a climbing grading scale, with duplicate climbs, then you can feed the grades of the sections. Those beings would then create a simulation to develop inputs for an online climbing grading tool. Also me: Holy crap! We're in a simulation who's purpose is to generate climbing grades for an online tool!
I think we need to standardize giving a star rating to a climb, as in that having more value in the "grading" of the climb, than the level of difficulty. Like Burden being 5 star V17, where the V17 is the secondary component.
Soon I think Ai will be able to take your rate of force development on a boulder based on your weight and height and tell you how much force you need to apply to do the crux on a climb. I'm sure there will be a wearable Ai in the future. Therefore, you would know if you were pulling 200, 210, 220 or even 230 percent of bodyweight. So, we can then argue people doing the crux move on Lucid Dreaming or the Swarm are pulling 230% relative to their own bodyweight for the crux. Top end bouldering is really based off of pulling off the holds. If not, there is nothing to endure. I.E. Lucid, Swarm, Burden, Sleepwalker, etc.... -Even Devilution has this ridiculous single move. Until we can quantify pulling, the rest is a Fugazi. Pulling is not everything, but it's the slab of your house.... The foundation of the argument. Look at Allison Vest's latest podcast with Testpiece climbing. She said she can hold everything, but pulling off of everything is another story. It's the same issue for men as it is for woman once you get into the upper grades. BTW, Love the idea of Darth Grader...
Man if an average of a lot of different options is better, than that would mean one of the most accurate grading system truth would be the moon board, which is something I'm not prepared to accept!
There is a tale, of a poll among the people of the realm to find out how long was the nose of the king. All the people were interviewed, and everyone gave its answer, so in the end having the average over millions of numbers, the length of the nose of the king was known with incredible precision...
Grades are weird, in my life I flash 6B gym but i fail 5b french but in Belgium. In Font the modern 7A gym style power problems gets loads of ascents, but a general blue circuit in the same erea get hardly a flash repeat while loads of people “easily” should be able to, considering they climb much harder. Grades are funny it helps to know a number but experience helps more. The opener(s) is in my opinion always much better and stronger then me 🙈 great discussion though
What about giving detailed descriptions of the whole route. And detailed videos so people can try to replicate the different sections in a gym. Then you could even sell replica holds so people can climb it at there local gym. Then they can give the grade.
Grades are always going to be difficult to compare. How can you compare a chimney, crack, slab and overhang. Then you have different rock which totally changes the climb again.
The problem with DG is that all the different bits we input are subjective in the first place. So if I grade the starting boulder problem wrong, then the sport grade and so on, the result will be so wonky as to be totally untrustworthy. Or let's say it could equate to what we felt, but still be wrong by a country mile compared to a consensus. In that sense DG is for very experienced climbers that can be 100% sure, or as close to, about the individual section grades. And also, say there's no proper crux in a route, it's all endurance/power endurance: then what? You can't break it down, therefore DG is useless. DG: the next favorite controversial topic among climbers.
Doesn't darth-grader just move the goal post? The final grade is the sum of its parts, but the parts still require subjective opinion, almost as if you just gave the total grade. Saying that darth-grader is probably useful for people to grade routes harder than anything they've done previously like for Pete in this case. Without experience at 9a its perhaps hard to suggest the grade, so darth-grader gives confidence.
I think it's actually useful for people who are boulder specialists who aren't used to climbing routes. They probably have a good grasp of the difficulty of each individual section but might find the full route a lot harder than someone who is more of a route specialist.
My opinion but I’m feeling grading could be fully objective. It wouldn’t be single grade for a climb, it would have to be a matrix. Perhars height against ape index. Maybe more metrics but it can’t include anything which is variable/trainable - no weight, no strength.
There is a v5 in my gym first v5 I flashed but I feel sort of cheap about it cause it’s three big cube volumes starting smaller and getting bigger and there are bad to ok feet underneath. There is space between the cubes and everyone tries this move to the second volume that requires you to catch a big swing on the slopey tops of the volumes with crossed hands palms out or they have to mantle in a really tight cramped position. I read Pete’s book so I jammed the route and the space is perfect for full bomber hand jams so I just swing away I can even cut feet and it’s not bad. I don’t have wide boyz gloves so my hands got a little torn up but it felt v4 to me. Should I claim the V5 flash or downgrade?
“Hello Wide Boyz! I’ve been thoroughly enjoying your content and the unique energy you bring to the climbing community. Your videos are always Great! I couldn’t help but wonder, have you considered teaming up with PewDiePie for a collaboration? It would be incredible to see a crossover between two channels that inspire so much creativity and fun. Just planting a seed in case it’s something you might explore in the future. Keep up the fantastic work! 😊🌱”
We should add the percentage of the body that was covered in rubber for the ascent. Like 9b 15% rb.
I adore the coffee table and the three plants on the table as if you aren't sitting in the middle of a climbing gym 😂 love ya work boyzz
The O-grade system needs an Adam Ondra simulator, after you enter the data on the route, you watch the simulated Ondra climb it, complete with grunts and screams, and out pops an O-number.
Don't forget the gibberish swearing if he doesn't flash!
And leg flicks on finishing.
@@precursor4263 Lmao calling a foreign language jibberish is rough 😂
Easiest implementation of a 99% average accuracy O-Grader is to just return 'O0' without even looking at the input :P
You gotta remember the O negatives
@jukethecoopyt393 What does that mean? Adam looks at the problem, and it disintegrates?
@@Heyght He pushes others to do it for him
@@Heyghtjust sheer willpower of him staring at it, and it just fall off lmao
Aww, as a non-climber I just want to tell you I'm a big fan! You're like two charming, athletic northern British sloths just hanging around upside down on rocks and ceilings. The Cellar is the perfect compressed space for content, with or without guests. I just have one request: as an outsider I love all the adorable inside-climbing-terms, so please do a long-form-video where you discuss the climbing lingo like "pump", "send", "sandbagging", "flash", "proj" etc. etc.
Just want a weekly podcast with you two chatting about everything there is to talk about re climbing
Yes please
Please I would love that
Just based on the title Im going to assume there is a lot of sarcasm laced in this one
Sarcasm should really be on the citizenship test
Sarcasm? The wideboyz? No...
I just watched the 2009 Wideboyz documentary on RUclips last night and loved it. Love that you all have been so good for so many years!
❤❤❤❤
As a route developer, I REALLY appreciated this conversation. You hit the nail right on the head. Thank you for talking about this
I think the easiest and by far the most simplest method would be to get a high resolution digital scan of the climb using drones and radar sensors, as well as motion capture data of the climber and of course data points like heart rate, perspiration, O2 saturation, then feed that into a simple Wix or Squarespace template site, and it spits out that it's an O0 grade.
Cant wait for the new climb to be called 'Climby Mc Climb face'
And be graded 5.2
@@Sheet_music_eatergenerous to assume it’ll be a 5
Or, Northy Mc Northface
Could you possibly have a discussion about upgrading grades. I've found that lots of climbs in the peak district (as I climb a decent amount here) seem way too hard for the grade but no one will upgrade the climb because that's just how it is. I feel there's a culture here around downgrading, and no one wants to suggest an upgrade. Furthermore lots of limestone problems have been polished over the last 30/40 years which can definitely make it a half a grade or so harder.
Even in the new peak bouldering guide I can recall multiple 7b's that I had done (that's near my upper limit at least) being downgraded to 7a+, which for some problems definitely seemed unwarranted.
I was a bit skeptical at first, but after spending some time plugging in some classic boulders according to their breakdowns, I was surprised to see that every single time, the calculated grade it gave me was within a plus or minus grade. This is a super neat tool for me, and I can see myself using it to get a better understanding of approximate grades of stuff within my project range that consist of sections I can do in isolation.
@19:34 Tom Random's thoughts as he scratches his neck: "As we sit here saying that grading other people's routes is a bad practice, I wonder if anyone will remember that video from Lattice, where I called James Pearson's route 'The World's Hardest Trad Route' a few months ago. Nah, I didn't put a number on it, so I technically didn't grade it, should be fine." 🤣🤣
.
ruclips.net/video/TW_1n80RlOk/видео.html
darth grader will be a force to be reckoned with
Kickstarter idea: make a digital twin of Adam Ondra and start 3D scanning all routes across the globe. Then assemble those two together in a simulated environment and just let Adam climb everything. The output is an O-grade for all routes in the word.
Should be pretty straightforward and feasible with today's technology.
Getting the public to name anything at all couldn't possibly go wrong
Climby McClimbface
It's a known fact (at least by me) that Ondra disagrees with Darth Grader on certain routes. For instance Vasil Vasil. He prefers O-grades (ok, that's not sure).
I feel like Tom is slowly transitioning into Murray from flight of the conchords
😂😂😂
This is so accurate and I'm not quite sure why
it's business time!
Present!
We need to get a 3d scanner attached to a drone, and use it to map the whole route and give you the grade. The top climbers would save so much time and wouldn't have to do all that training, as they wouldn't even have to climb it to tell us what the grade is.
This is my new favourite genre of video!
Brilliant conversation! Loved it
You should try a modern route using all old school gear, ya know the OG Chouinard starter set of "chocks", a pair of Fir'es , a Troll harness, and a twsited nylon rope.... and see how it grades!
Climbing 5.9+ in the 70's was quite a feat, much much easier today, because of the gear.
Love the videos of the climbs edited in when you guys refer to a specific one
Toms next route is going to be "routy mcrouteface", love it
I absolutely would prefer "cracky mccrackface"
Cameraman Pete is a genius
When are you guys going to start selling grade safes and shovels?
I just love how easily and seamlessly Tom and Pete can switch from talking genuinely to trolling 😂
I love this new style of video! Please do more!!!
We need a wide boyz podcast!!!!! ❤
In Darth grader, for grading a route you still have to grade its sections. And that remains subject to the same subjectivity and therefore controversy. Also the definition of 'good' or 'bad' rest is subjective and controversial: how good a rest is depends on how fit and strong you are (ask Ghisolfi)
Love your setup with the couch on the mats 😅
Love these vlog/podcast style videos
It's not like sponsors are going to be asking have you sent X number of V16s or whatever, but it is obvious that sending super hard stuff is a way for people to build a social media following
You must always be prepared for something special when these two take a seat on the couch😉. Good one.
There are 2 grades in climbing and 1 in-between. Can climb and Can not climb! and the last is might be able to climb aka Projects.
Please do the buried safe thing for your next FAs for real.
Can't wait to see the ritualistic safe burials :D. I think you have a slight editing error at 16:15 : The animations are there but the first few stills are missing.
Holy cow I just tried Darth Grader on a couple of routes I know well and Holy cow it’s so accurate!
Ok here me out
Darth grader input tool - 'half grader'
O grader wix template - 'Czech Rate'
Everyone's going to have a different experience on a given climb. The real future should have robots doing the routes and telling you how hard YOU'D find it.
This could probably be done for the moon board.
People that has climbed a similar style of routes to you have graded this V4 average overall V3.
I look at the Wide Boyz crack gloves everytime I pass the climbing gym shop, but I can't bring myself to pick them up as it feels too much like cheating
DUDE! That smudge to the right of toms head drives me nuts 😂 constantly trying to wipe my phone screen, same with last couch video
These two should discuss other things too. There's something strangely addictive about their conversations and humour.
can't wait to see tom's new route, "widey mc wide boyz"
Theoretically, I think it's legitimately possible to create a tool that analyzes 3d scans of a route and runs through a model that grades it based on the physicality of it (i.e. distance of holds, difficulty of individual holds, etc.). The model could be trained based on scans of existing routes and grades, and based on 3d generated routes.
I was looking into the 8a.nu data for the O-grade, but I'm not finding the number of tries or number of sessions so I don't think it can be done automatically. There is the flash/onsight info vs redpoint, but that would only give us if it's a O0 or O1+
I've setup a lot of boulders and routes now, and I do wish the grading system was better. A universal system would be great. I still think E grade + Font grade is my favorite system, encompasses the whole trip and peak difficulty. A universal, more encompassing grading system would be great.
One aspect where downgrading is especially relevant compared to upgrading is that new beta can be found that makes it easier. Generally in that case the first ascentionist will just agree with the new grade.
Alex Megos's bibliographie is the essential example. If I remember correctly Stephan Ghisolfi downgraded it to a 9b+ because of easier beta on the crux boulder problem but more or less agreed that how Alex climbed it, it was a 9c.
Seeing as climbing is already the art of climbing up a rock on the hardest possible, I actually have no problem adding stipulations to increase the grades of already established routes but my impression is that take is pretty antithetical to climbing and does overcomplicate things a fair bit.
I think people give extra credence to downgrades by second ascensionists because they know that climbing something that's never been climbed before can be psychologically harder than repeating something. Their experience of a climb will be much more like the second ascensionists in that respect, so that grade will more likely describe the climb for them.
But maybe I'm giving folks more credit than I should.
Wide Boyz t-shirt idea, list of routes and their respective O grades
9:40 brb, developing a fitness tracker integration for Darth Grader that takes bpm and accelerometer data and just derives the inputs from that 😅
Im pretty interested around what grade people feel comfortable grading climbs. Im climbing 6c+ but i never really feel comfortable challenging grades in toplogger. I also haven't climbed for that long, maybe thats a bigger factor.
So my question for anyone interested in sharing: What grade do you climb, how long have you been climbing and do you feel comfortable challenging grades?
8 years, 7b max. Challenged my first 7b (climbed 2 years after starting), saying it was 7a+ max and was proven right by the later consensus. I don't mind giving my opinion, knowing it can be utter rubbish. Doesn't stop it feeling real for me. I onsighted a supposed 7a+, which felt like a 6c, and said so.
The good thing is at my level no one pays attention to what I think. That's why I choose to remain low average 😂(this is NOT a comment on people who climb softer grades, btw, just how I perceive my own level).
I think with climbing a grade that was set with a knee bar but without it should still get an “unassisted “ tag
If grades should be updated as technology improves as Tom argues, then shouldn’t they also be updated as more people climb them and the holds become significantly worst?
In my head there is a lot of controversy about lower grade too. Because of sandbagging crag that aren't accessible and ego climbing at lower level.
Has the O grader been made yet? Busy at work but I could totally get it done in a couple weeks
The problem with the majority opinion is most climb in soft gyns, so grades get watered diwn. 5.12 from the 1980's is way harder than one from the last 20 years. SNS
How much climbing experience should a person have before they are "qualified" to suggest grades?
You know the thing you said about a climber not grading causes they don’t feel they have a good sense of the grade. I went to a screening of Sleeping Lion and Chris Sharma said something similar about his early establishments
Whoever does the route, the other buys the safe/sets the password. Adds a level of security.
Every input for darth grader, is in of itself subjective 😂
Still going to suffer the garbage in, garbage out problem..
I believe that the tool is meant to help people break things down that are at/past their limit. For example, let's say I've found a new outdoor project. I have only ever climbed a V6 outside, and I send the stand start that is established at V5. I have now found a sit-start link that feels about the same difficulty as the stand start in isolation (V5), but I can't link the two sections together and I want to know the approximate difficulty. I think this is where the calculator comes in handy; I can plug in the sections I know the difficulty of to get an approximate grade for the whole climb which is outside of my knowledge-base for difficulty. Though subjectivity will still be involved, I think this will be a helpful tool for people establishing routes and boulders that are outside of the realm of what they're comfortable grading on their own.
Tom Randall, at t=9m37s "But we could have an online tool that made [inputs to climbing grades for inputs to climbing grades]"
Me: Yeah, no problem, all you have to do is create a simulation of a universe with beings that develop a climbing grading scale, with duplicate climbs, then you can feed the grades of the sections. Those beings would then create a simulation to develop inputs for an online climbing grading tool.
Also me: Holy crap! We're in a simulation who's purpose is to generate climbing grades for an online tool!
I think we need to standardize giving a star rating to a climb, as in that having more value in the "grading" of the climb, than the level of difficulty. Like Burden being 5 star V17, where the V17 is the secondary component.
100% 6C+ is the hardest grade going for this very reason 😂
Soon I think Ai will be able to take your rate of force development on a boulder based on your weight and height and tell you how much force you need to apply to do the crux on a climb. I'm sure there will be a wearable Ai in the future. Therefore, you would know if you were pulling 200, 210, 220 or even 230 percent of bodyweight. So, we can then argue people doing the crux move on Lucid Dreaming or the Swarm are pulling 230% relative to their own bodyweight for the crux. Top end bouldering is really based off of pulling off the holds. If not, there is nothing to endure. I.E. Lucid, Swarm, Burden, Sleepwalker, etc.... -Even Devilution has this ridiculous single move. Until we can quantify pulling, the rest is a Fugazi. Pulling is not everything, but it's the slab of your house.... The foundation of the argument. Look at Allison Vest's latest podcast with Testpiece climbing. She said she can hold everything, but pulling off of everything is another story. It's the same issue for men as it is for woman once you get into the upper grades. BTW, Love the idea of Darth Grader...
The o grade website should have a video of ondras accent!!!!
Man if an average of a lot of different options is better, than that would mean one of the most accurate grading system truth would be the moon board, which is something I'm not prepared to accept!
Entertaining as ever :D
Man I totally loved the idea of bury the grade in a safe! Do It!😂
There is a tale, of a poll among the people of the realm to find out how long was the nose of the king. All the people were interviewed, and everyone gave its answer, so in the end having the average over millions of numbers, the length of the nose of the king was known with incredible precision...
New vid out on our channel right now! Just bad climbers trying to climb hard and having a fun time doing it.
Winning name for route: Routey McRouteFace
I think we should start grading the medium rests
You guys got to try the v17 crack boulder
be fun to check it out for sure!
Grades are weird, in my life
I flash 6B gym but i fail 5b french but in Belgium. In Font the modern 7A gym style power problems gets loads of ascents, but a general blue circuit in the same erea get hardly a flash repeat while loads of people “easily” should be able to, considering they climb much harder. Grades are funny it helps to know a number but experience helps more. The opener(s) is in my opinion always much better and stronger then me 🙈 great discussion though
Great comedy😂! Better then a mr. Bean episode!
What about giving detailed descriptions of the whole route. And detailed videos so people can try to replicate the different sections in a gym. Then you could even sell replica holds so people can climb it at there local gym. Then they can give the grade.
Can we arrange a pro-climber summit where we have an open and productive debate in UK grades, live streamed of course.
Thanks for this video!
As an American it took me about 12 iterations to realize they were say “controversy”
Grades are always going to be difficult to compare. How can you compare a chimney, crack, slab and overhang. Then you have different rock which totally changes the climb again.
Just keep using "O grades"... all we need to do is ask Adam to climb every route on earth and bingo, job done!!😅
When you first said, "rubber jammies" all I could picture is sleeping in latex. 😂😂😂
The problem with DG is that all the different bits we input are subjective in the first place. So if I grade the starting boulder problem wrong, then the sport grade and so on, the result will be so wonky as to be totally untrustworthy. Or let's say it could equate to what we felt, but still be wrong by a country mile compared to a consensus.
In that sense DG is for very experienced climbers that can be 100% sure, or as close to, about the individual section grades.
And also, say there's no proper crux in a route, it's all endurance/power endurance: then what? You can't break it down, therefore DG is useless.
DG: the next favorite controversial topic among climbers.
Doesn't darth-grader just move the goal post? The final grade is the sum of its parts, but the parts still require subjective opinion, almost as if you just gave the total grade.
Saying that darth-grader is probably useful for people to grade routes harder than anything they've done previously like for Pete in this case. Without experience at 9a its perhaps hard to suggest the grade, so darth-grader gives confidence.
I think it's actually useful for people who are boulder specialists who aren't used to climbing routes. They probably have a good grasp of the difficulty of each individual section but might find the full route a lot harder than someone who is more of a route specialist.
@aspuzling You're totally right, that's a very good point I hadn't considered.
My opinion but I’m feeling grading could be fully objective. It wouldn’t be single grade for a climb, it would have to be a matrix. Perhars height against ape index. Maybe more metrics but it can’t include anything which is variable/trainable - no weight, no strength.
There is a v5 in my gym first v5 I flashed but I feel sort of cheap about it cause it’s three big cube volumes starting smaller and getting bigger and there are bad to ok feet underneath. There is space between the cubes and everyone tries this move to the second volume that requires you to catch a big swing on the slopey tops of the volumes with crossed hands palms out or they have to mantle in a really tight cramped position. I read Pete’s book so I jammed the route and the space is perfect for full bomber hand jams so I just swing away I can even cut feet and it’s not bad. I don’t have wide boyz gloves so my hands got a little torn up but it felt v4 to me. Should I claim the V5 flash or downgrade?
The most objective grading tool would be a program that converts a 3D-scan of a route to a grade.
Unfortunately we don't live in 3000
Giga Wideboyz!
Do you think people read to much into climbing routes. Would it not be better to have green, blue, red, black like skiing and let people have at it?
There is no way people say controversy like that
Please update me the link when the O-Grading system website is complete please!
Is there a Dave MacLeod setting?
“Hello Wide Boyz! I’ve been thoroughly enjoying your content and the unique energy you bring to the climbing community. Your videos are always Great! I couldn’t help but wonder, have you considered teaming up with PewDiePie for a collaboration? It would be incredible to see a crossover between two channels that inspire so much creativity and fun. Just planting a seed in case it’s something you might explore in the future. Keep up the fantastic work! 😊🌱”
Well you still need to subjectively grade the individual sections; so doesn't it defeat the purpose?
How many people couldn’t understand what they were saying at first until the tittle screen came up saying controversial 😂
A spicy question... Does stacking pads to make the start easier give it a lower grade or just mean you didn't do the actual problem?... cough*burden*
Adam's next first: "hardest route I have climbed, lets say 6b for now."
Grades have less gravity than gravity. Except on Curbar grit.
how chopped are you boys before making these