I definitely agree with the balance in Ragnarok being near perfect. The humor is smart and funny. The action and seriousness is placed perfectly. This movie takes it to the extreme. My feelings on this is like Kristian’s on Guardians. The humor just did not land with me in this one. It sucks because I can see the more balanced, serious, heavy themes trying to shine through.
Agreed. It was like they tried too hard to be funny and it just wasn't. And when it came time to be serious they ruined it. There also a lack of emotions. For example when Jane died I didn't feel any sadness or connection like there should've been. Everything seemed to be a joke.
Strange how people used to complain about the MCU stifling directors visions too much and not letting do what they wanted to do and now it's totally flipped and we get complaints about Doctor Strange being TOO Raimi, Eternals being TOO Zhao and now Thor being TOO Taika. Like you ask why fix what wasn't broken but soooo many people always used to complain that Marvel didn't let its directors be fully creative. Now they are. It's interesting
I don’t care what Taika’s vision is…Thor shouldn’t have dialogue like it’s an episode of friends. The tone of the movie is all over the place and he has a responsibility to at least respect the continuity of the franchise
Great point with reversing the dialogue with Thor and Lady Sif! Had she brought up the hand joke to add levity to a serious scene, it completely works and makes the scene better.
I love Thor: Love and Thunder more than Ragnorak because how it brought back characters from the first two Thor films. I’m among the minority but I loved the first two films and I love the Jane character and her friends Darcy & Selvig and was happy that they showed up “even briefly” in the film. For me, it was a culmination of all the Thor films. I love how this film reminded the audience “through its brilliant montage” of how much Thor has lost in his life like his family and friends & how he needs to be okay with death now and gets the chance to say a proper goodbye this time to a passing person in his life like Jane. 😢 The film isn’t perfect but it worked for me because of this. Thank y’all for the spoiler review! 🙏😊
Great seeing Darcy. Should have had one more scene with her reacting to Jane becoming “Thor”. No shot of her concern that her friend that’s stage 4 cancer disappeared.
I think I can see Winston's point that once he realized the tone of the movie, he enjoyed it. I saw the movie twice, and I laughed more the 2nd time, and I think it's because I knew what the movie was going to be. Aaaand, I'm going a 3rd time because I enjoyed the movie. It's fluff with some depth, and I had a good time. Christian Bale was great, and I think my one nitpick is he wasn't in the movie more. My sister loved the kids, and I did too. BTW, I heard some of the Gorr butchering was cut... did anyone know if that's fact or fiction? I could have used more of that for the character.
My ranking is as follows: 1. Thor: Ragnarok - easily the funnest, most fulfilling and rewatchable movie of the series that balances comedy and drama so well. The movie came at a perfect time when the Thor character and Chris Hemsworth himself needed new life injected into him, and boy did we get that. This leads into Infinity War perfectly and continues the arc of Thor into both that movie and Endgame which in my opinion is the most interesting Thor has been, we are able to finally connect with him in a human level given the amount of loss he has had in his life. 2. Thor - the effects are a bit dated now given the MCU has advanced so much, however the tale of Thor having to prove to his father that he is worthy and earth coming to terms with his arrival was really interesting to see and the tone is kept consistent throughout, which is why it ranks above my next entry. Also, seeing Loki beginning his villainous arc was a treat to see. 3. Thor: Love and Thunder - Gorr and Jane are absolute standouts, their arcs make total sense and how they play out are immensely satisfying. However, the emotional beats do not hit me as hard because the movie is so filled with silly and goofy humour that its hard to take it seriously when it wants you to and the tone is so messy that I didn’t know what way to take the movie. 4. Thor: The Dark World - i’ve never hated this movie and it isn’t even my worst MCU movie like may claim it to be. I don’t think the movie does anything particularly great or awful - its just the definition of mediocre. The villain is the the one awful thing about the film for me, apart from that its pretty watchable and Loki was the scene stealer.
Nah, I'll take Thor over Taika's movies any day. They are well made from a technique standpoint but the choices of adaptation make them unwatchable for me. Glad we aren't going to see this Thor for a long time.
I totally agree with Kristian about the balance, Love and Thunder doesn't have enough serious moments where Thor isn't being funny. He's funny when he find Sif, when he talks to the kids, and with Zeus. He's only serious with Jane towards the end but it's such a short scene that it feels too little too late. I can't really explain why Ragnarok is better because it has the same issues, but it felt more serious to me than this.
1. Ragnarok (Okay) 2. LAT (Bad) 3. Thor 1 (haven't seen it) 4. Dark World (haven't seen it) Categories are 1. Great 2. Really Good 3. Good 4. Okay 5. Bad
I LOVED Ragnoke and had really high expectations for Love and Thunder. But, after it was over I turned to my brother and said it was too much comedy. I wanted a good balance between seriousness and comedy like Ragnoke. I wish we could have seen more of Gorr destroying the God's to really understand the seriousness of stopping him. I still really enjoyed Christian Bale but wanted more. Natalie Portman was great and the chemistry with Chris Hemsworth is what I needed and wished for from the first 2 Thor's. Loved the goats though! I might change my mind after a 2nd viewing but for right now it's 7/10 for me.
One thing that I noticed with the humor in Love and Thunder that’s different from Ragnarok is that this movie does a lot of physical humor here. The goats running into stuff, Thor doing the splits on 2 space vehicles, the weapons are floating around being funny, Zeus flailing his skirt around, the dumpling God, the kids using funny Thor powered weapons, etc. Ragnarok had a little of that but not to this extent. Most of the Ragnarok humor comes from dialogue. Ragnarok also had an underlying level of drama throughout. This is damn near slapstick comedy with barely any dramatic undertones. In Ragnarok there’s funny stuff but the underlying character stuff bleeds through and weaves with the comedy. For example, the most slapsticky moment in Ragnarok is probably when Thor and Loki do the “get help” bit. It’s absurd and it’s funny. However, even that little bit gives you a little character insight into both of them. It gives you a glimpse into their past, their current relationship and that underneath it all, they’re still brothers. This movie doesn’t have stuff like that. It’s damn near ALLLLLLL jokes.
But what about the moment with Valkyrie drunk and falling off her ship when she is first introduced? You can say there is still character written underneath, but it is very Taika comdey bit?
@@brianng8350 you already pointed out the difference. That comedy had character depth infused with it. She’s not just falling off because it’s a funny bit. She’s falling because part of her arc is that she’s fallen so far from what she used to be. And that not only plays into her story, but Hela’s as well.
I feel like the biggest problem with the film was that we didn't see Gorr wreak havoc to the same extend as Hela in Ragnarok. I think cutting scenes with Gorr torturing and killing Grandmaster and Eitri would've made the stakes more palpable and people be more forgiving about the humor in this film.
Very well put my guy! For me, again, for ME (not saying this is how everyone does or should look at it) physical comedy has its limits, you can only do it so many times until I go, “ok I’m about done with this”.
@@ryancraig6675 the absence of him killing gods kinda annoyed me, I was hoping to see some of that in the first act or so. He’s the fucking God Butcher and we saw him kill one god in the whole movie.
Winston has literally said what I've been saying, Phase 4 is not directionless as much as it's the setup. We will learn more in the future. I trust in Fiege!🙏
I liked it. It’s nowhere near as bad as Thor 2 and I liked it more than Thor 1. For me, this is definitely the most disappointing MCU movie. Ragnarok is in my top 10 MCU movies and I’ve loved every one of Taika’s movies so far. I was expecting so much more from this movie.
Totally agree friend, i’ve never been more disappointed with an MCU entry before as I was with this one. The expectancy I had was to match or better the level of Ragnarok given it was the same creative team behind it, but it fell way short of the bar.
I loved the movie, after hearing how it like a cartoon I was shocked at how serious it was from the start. I felt the comedy was a perfect juxtaposition to the villian, the gods are a self obsessed joke, totally not serious and it's a perfect balance to this. I felt it was a serious movie with jokes to help juxtaposition that.
Glad you guys kinda covered the topic of directors having freedom… It's a tough thing, because Marvel has been criticized for not letting their directors be true to their own sensibilities, and being forced to adhere to the "Marvel" formula.... However with stuff like "Eternals", "Multiverse of Madness", and now "Love & Thunder", where Chloe Zhao, Sam Raimi and Taika Waititi were all legit given free rein to adjust to their respective styles, depending on how you look at it, they have come up with mixed results, as the final products to some, have felt somewhat half-baked; while others are balking against these stylistic choices, period. There has to be some balance. Harloff, you did ask “why fix what’s broken?”, Cody was on point by saying “It might get stale.” And if we’re being honest, that’s always been the risk and criticism of the MCU: that their formula would become stale. For all the criticisms of Phase 4, I do have to acknowledge that This era of the MCU has probably been the most experimental, and there’s merit to that. The problem though is that this new exercise in creativity has to refine the individual storytelling, so these movies/shows stand strong on their own.
You still have to guide the movie and keep it on track. Letting the runtime balloon up to 4+ hrs and paying several big actors millions of dollars for cameos that just get cut is a waste of everyone’s time and money
@@chevster23 I don't disagree. There definitely has to be middle ground for sure. It's just that after ten years, and the fact that that particular criticism has been a rampart, it's also not surprising that they would just let directors go all out. But to your point about guiding the movie and keeping it on track: there has to be balance. Collaboration in the truest sense. It kinda makes me wonder if "Ant-Man" were to be made *today* , would Edgar Wright had been allowed to make his movie?
Came for the spoiler discussion, stayed for the Masterclass on the art and science of the comedy genre. I always enjoy spoiler discussions with three distinct opinions on the movie. Ragnarok is still my favorite because I felt the story was more fluid and gave the character a much needed reset, as well as the inclusion of the Hulk and Planet Sakaar. What was notable to me was the juxtaposition between the cold open and the mid-credits scene. So Gorr is a man who was devoted to his god to where he feared him and that devotion betrays him and his daughter. This represents an element of modern society that has shifted away from believing in institutions of power for betraying their faith. On the opposite spectrum, Zeus is enraged that the people have lost their faith in their gods because they don't fear them, yet at the same time removes himself from interacting with his subjects because he feels he is above them. And that represents a sector of modern society that believes society is crumbling because the people don't have faith in power that derives from fear and obedience. But my question is: why expect people as loyal subjects to devote themselves to a higher power not out of reward but out of fear of punishment? It creates an expectation that inequality is to be accepted as a necessary element of civilization never to be questioned or challenged. And as we are seeing in today's society, it is certainly being questioned and challenged. Also, I noticed there hasn't been a lot of discussion about the appearance of Eternity, an all-powerful cosmic entity, which can play heavily into the future of the MCU, not just on a cosmic level but on a metaphysical level when it comes to the physical nature and sentience of the universe. I'm also pretty sure I saw the Living Tribunal somewhere in the background. In any case, I enjoyed the hell out of this movie and I feel it worked on many levels. A very worthy and mighty addition to the Thor mythos in the MCU.
I'm a bit of a anomaly, the first Thor, I thought, was really good. And the scene when Odin banishes Thor is so powerful. Now, Love and Thunder is just as good as Ragnorok. It's kind of the opposite side of the same coin. Ragnorok deals with accpecting your fate and dealing with it, and Love and Thunder is learning from your past to make a better future. So good, and the imagery in Love and Thunder, especially at the end seeing the reflection in the water....omg was so good
I'm with you, I actually think the first Thor movie is vastly underrated. That scene with Odin and where he realizes he's not worthy anymore trying to lift the hammer, so powerful. And all the Asgard mythology and family turmoil with Odin and Thor and Loki, it's a story about fathers and sons really. And Kenneth Brannah is an excellent director. The more I talk about it, the more I think it's actually the best Thor movie overall, Ragnarok is more entertaining definitely, but I think Thor is the best film in the series
I’m with Winston on this movie. It hit super well for me. The heavy subject matter hit for me personally. But I can totally see your point of view as well. BUT my favs of the year would be EEAAO, Top Gun, Stranger Things, The Boys, The Batman for sure.
I’m definitely on Winston’s camp but I’m having a hard time choosing if I like this better than Ragnarok or not. It’s like my brain is saying Ragnarok is better but my heart is saying otherwise lol. This maybe my favorite video you three have done together thus far! Great job guys!
For me, I thought the movie did a good job of explaining Thor’s mental state in the beginning. Between Korg’s storytelling in the beginning, Thor only going out when someone says they need him, and the conversation after the battle between Starlord and Thor, I thought the movie showed Thor after Endgame didn’t feel wanted in the universe and therefore would dial it to an 11 when he was wanted to make himself try and feel something. The goofy comedy of the movie worked for me because I felt it made sense for his character to want to be over the top goofy
Hands down my favorite part of this episode was when Kristian, right at the end quoted my favorite basketball player of all-time Kevin Garnett. "ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE!!!" I love it! LETS GO!!!
The comedic tone threw me off of all “believability” and therefore empathy for each character. Therefore it turned into motion picture skittles both comedically and visual fx wise, and by the end I was all sugared out. My personal favourite Thor was infinity war, where he was comedic and also sensible and powerful. Anything too devoid of that looks off to me. When I heard the characters talking I heard taika and not the characters.
I love Coy but man these are some bad takes. Explains for 3 minutes genuine faults with the movie then at the end saying. “Once I adjusted my expectations I loved it”. That’s wild dude.
@@TBKingViper very scripted and careful. He’s trying to make it as an interviewer/pundant. He can’t just outwardly blast marvel if he wants to work in the future.
Nah I agree with Coy. Soon as knew it was going to be like Meet The Spartans, I just ate an edible and enjoyed it for being dumb schlock. Taika made it bad on purpose.
I do agree with some opinions that Coy is overly positive on these reviews but let's all remember that it's his job to hype these movies. It would be hard for Marvel to hire him as a host for screenings if he is being too negative on their films.
And that’s the problem. We don’t need this kind of coverage. It feels artificial. I’m guessing most people watching kristians channel are not 12 years old
I loved this movie. I didn't know what to think after the first viewing, but was sure after my second viewing. Only complaints is that there needed to be more Gorr. Not because they didn't flesh him out or anything, but because I loved his take so much. My other complaint is that I wish they had written in some explanation on why no one ever went to eternity before, why none of the gods helped with Thanos and why Thor hasn't used the power transferring before. Minor complaints that I can look over easily, but stuff I know will bother others.
2 months later, but it's possible the Thunderbolt weapon played a role in allowing Thor to transfer his powers. If you notice, the powers the kids have are using the same golden color of Thunderbolt, as opposed to the usual blue of Thor's power. And I also loved this movie!
I watched/read some reviews before I saw it which I don’t usually do but like a lot of people I’ve had a bit of Marvel fatigue recently so I wasn’t sure I was going to see it, especially when there were a few negative reviews. I’m really glad I did though - I enjoyed it, it was a very rounded movie with elements of darkness and lots of levity. Cast was great, Taika is 2 for 2 with Thor imo. Edit: spelling
One of the things I wish Taika had done was kill his darling- and by darling, I mean, Korg. I loved the character in lower doses but too much of him kills that love.
For me I like Ragnarok a little bit more. For me the front loaded heavy comedy really worked as it was a reflection of where Thor was at. He's keeping everyone and everything at arms length and to do that he goes overboard on the humor so as to not take stuff seriously. I actually loved how the Sif scene worked because she is a reminder of his losses so the coping mechanism goes in overdrive. Big thing that didn't work for me was Russell's Zeus which the performance would have matched up well with the Asgardian Thespian Troupe play but not the actual story. While the ending was done really well you could see it coming from the very beginning which is ultimately why Ragnarok is a little higher on my list. PS- when does the first Infinity Cones open up and where?
I need to see it again to decide if I like it more than Ragnorak, but I loved this movie, completely understood what Taika was trying to accomplish, and it all worked for me (except 5 minutes of Rocket & Thor would have been better than the whole guardians thing - that seemed a bit forced. ) The interesting thing for me is that I've seen Ragnorak so many times and never think about it as serious - every dramatic moment changes immediately to comedy, even when Odin dies - but THIS movie made me cry 3 times because they let those few dramatic moments marinate a little longer and the death scenes were far more emotional (to me.) So, for me, 💖&⚡ was 60/40 & Ragnorak was 70/30 comedy /drama. I'm #TeamWinston on this one, but respect you all! 😊
Same! This movie really made me tear up a lot. Hell, Just Bale's performance as Gorr in the opening scene hit me hard. Bale and Portman gave such astonishing portrayals (and they weren't the only ones, but, damn they are so great). 💖&⚡
I agree that the infinity war/endgame Thor is the the best Thor. The on and off goofy stuff throws me off. Love y'all discussion about the phase comparison! Can't believe you all loved the goats tho haha. They drove me crazy. I find Taika movies are hit and miss for me and this one was a miss :/.
A problem with thinking in terms of "phase 1" is that we're no longer in phase 1. They have a formula that works and has a certain level of expectations now. Businesswise, they're risking losing casual watchers if the connective tissue is missing ala my friends and family. The recent movies are feeling disconnected and lack a coherency. They're not as driven to see every MCU movie or TV show now. Personally, I liked Thor 1 and 2. I think a key thing that makes phase 1-3 work is iron man, cap, thor, and the rest is being grounded in the real world. As the movies and shows become more comic-bookish, they edging towards being unwatchable (at least in the theater.) Right now, as I've said before, the only connective thread seems to be magic with Wandavision (my fav of the TV shows so far), Shang-Chi, and Dr Strange. We have this open question of so many long-lived entities on Earth (like thousands of years) that is seems impossible they have not interacted at some point. Where's mention of this literal celestial stone head poking out of Earth? They can keep mentioning the blip but not the moon-sized turned-to-stone being. As to this movie, when it was done, I asked "What did I just watch?". It's a 50% to 60% rating. Most MCU land 75% to 85%.
Commenting since you asked: I really liked it. I don't know if I like it more than Ragnarok yet, but it's close and miles ahead of the other two films. That said, I'm also a way bigger Taika fan than I am a Thor fan. I found the emotional beats still hit hard for me in spite of the comedic tone-considerably harder than the ones in Ragnarok even. Maybe it was the cancer story hitting harder because this is the only MCU movie that has a convincing romance. This movie managed to make Thor and Jane's relationship more convincing in a 5-minute montage than the previous three movies combined. I also found myself laughing out loud at the goats and the fight with the kids. I think the film is pretty much perfect as a family film. I definitely understand why you and others would feel the tone leans too much towards comedy and not prefer that. I just found that it worked for me. For what it's worth, I really liked MoM, too. I'd rewatch either of those over most of the phase 1 and phase 2 films except maybe the first Iron Man and Guardians of the Galaxy.
As a counter to Kristian's point about the opening scene, the god that ridicules Gorr's devotion, actually takes a sinister turn in tone once he's fed up with Gorr. Which I think kinda works.
I want to first say that I started reading thor back in 1967 he has always been one of my favorite characters, so it's fair to say I have a certain lock on his personality, character but I have to admit I like the goofy aspects. My wife who likes some marvel movies but is a harsh critic loved this thor and movie. She even loved the goats. They never got old. All of the thor movies I have never seen more than once at the theaters I have my tickets for a second showing it was a fun time at the movies. This would be ranked for me around number 10 or 12
Saw it twice over the weekend. Thursday opening night I was NOT into it & neither was my theatre. I think going into it on Saturday knowing what it was I was more open & enjoyed it more. Oddly enough the crowd audibly liked it more than the opening night one did.
With kristian on this one Liked to hear the different opinions but -The second half of the play was over kill. -I liked that zues but that bit needed to be toned down. -sif joke needed a more heartfelt delivery as kristian said. -kids at the end was a little bit if an eye roll. This movie suffered because they let tika do what he wanted and it was to much. I would have rarther korg die tbh. I liked everything else
I loved it. I do wish we could’ve spent more time in the emotional parts (especially Thor with Gor’s daughter). But there were redeeming qualities. I found the Zeus stuff hilarious, but I have only really seen russell Crowe in les mis, as a gen z. The Hercules reveal got me GOOD. Love Brett Goldstein and cannot wait to see what he’s doing in the mcu.
If you know what it is, a fun, family movie… I think you’ll enjoy it. Especially on second viewing. I liked it the first viewing. I LOVED it even more with every rewatch.
1. Rag 2. Thor 3. Love and Thunder 4. DW Love and Thunder felt like Beverly Hills Cop 3 to Ragnorok's Beverly Hills Cop 2. It felt like an old school sequel that just tried to do everything funnier and more often than the previous film. My opinion.
I think more than the humor alone, it is the inconsistency with the character of Thor. The character was getting a bit stale after Thor 1 & 2, Avengers, and Ultron. Ragnarock shook it up but it still had a lot of seriousness. Infinite War nailed Thor. Serious, driven, yet still had unintentional, fish out of water humor. This is the best Thor has been. End Game took him too much into a goofy route and then Love and Thunder took him way beyond that. The character of Thor needs to be more consistent because it's hard to see his growth or change as a character if he's a different person in every film.
having these: "I think more than the humor alone, it is the inconsistency with the character of Thor.", and "The character of Thor needs to be more consistent because it's hard to see his growth or change as a character if he's a different person in every film." and then having this: "The character was getting a bit stale after Thor 1 & 2, Avengers, and Ultron." seems like consistency is the wrong word. I'd say the stale thor was consistent. and Ragnarok till now Thor has also been consistent. growth has happened in both versions of thor. So I don't really understand your point? they've been consistent with him even though there obviously was a pivot for the character. so consistency is not the issue.
@@thetrib1 Thor in Infinity War is not the same character has Love and Thunder. He's a completely different person. Perhaps my wording could have been better. A person doesn't change from being a serious person to a goof ball. That isn't character growth. For a serious person, loosening up and learning to live some is growth. For a goof ball, learning to take accountability and be responsible is character growth. When a character changes so drastically it is harder to be invested in their story.
@@vanquish5023 You're being told a story. It isn't the person that changed, it's the perspective of the storyteller and how he chooses to tell it. In the film, that's Korg. Everything is filtered through Korg's perspective as he's telling the story. The core characteristics of Thor are all there, it's just that this particular story chooses to emphasize certain ones over others.
Hmm I agree with alot of what you said. I think the Coy mentioned it during the review also, but I think this Thor was still meant to still feel broken and lost, post Endgame. And being the charming and all-together Thor in Infinity War was no more. I think THIS movie was supposed to, or should have explored more, Thor juggling that struggle of being broken but wanting to go back to glory days of pre-Endgame. But I think why the character of Thor seems stale and lackluster with this movie is because I think they massively dropped the ball on expressing that. We should've gotten a more complex and layered Thor which shows him either struggle with his brokenness more or overcome it, kind of the arc and the payoff that we got with Spiderman. I think his way of moving on from it and growing as a character is probably going to be him taking on a dad role BUT the fact that I HAVE TO piece this together shows me how messy the directing was and poorly Thor's growth was delivered. It just seemed like a lesser rehash of Ragnorak. Seen it, done that kind of mentality for me. BTW...After watching this, I completely understand why Joker 2 wants to go a completely different route by making it a musical now. It might be bonkers but trying to redo what they did with the first movie would make the 2nd one, "stale".
@@vanquish5023 hm...missed the point. here's a couple of questions that should help my point: Is Thor consistent in Thor 1 & 2, Avengers, and Ultron? if the answer is yes....then how did it get stale?
Ragnarok was a much better balance. This one felt like the main demographic was kids. Didn't love guardians 2 either. Guardians 1 was one of my favorites.
The show is at its best when you guys have differing opinions but a great discussion about it, I totally agree with the general consensus that this movie would have benefitted from like 20 more mins of drama
I haven’t watched Eternals since the cinema and only seen it once. Same with Spider-Man NWH. I saw DS2 in the cinema and I skimmed through DS2 once to just the fight scenes when it came on Disney plus. I keep rewatching Shang Chi and I’ll probably go back to this few times too. Shang Chi is amazing. I really liked Thor 4. 🙌
I wonder how many times Kristian has seen Guardians 2. Imo it really isn't as bad as he's making it out to be. I actually think it's a lot better than he's saying. Yes there is a lot of humor in it. But there are some deep themes of family (natural and those we make) and connecting to one another. Plus, that death scene at the end is so well done.
For the casual fans I know, the Matt Damon play helped remind them what happened to mjolnir. I think some are confused by the second hammer from Endgame.
love the video and im going to go more in depth on our galaxy cast tonight, but i think alot of the difference between between phase 1 and phase 4 is, the types of stories we are getting. I compare what the audience want in stories to the real world. I compare for these characters endgame to being like for us 911. After 911 you saw everyone who died as a tragedy, but we really pushed and supported the heroes of the fireman and policeman and ambulances men and woman so we were really looking at these men and woman as larger then life people in a way. For marvel you see phase 1 as the larger then life heroes starting to be created and you see their journeys up until end game. Now for phase 4 instead of just creating new larger then life heroes to look up to we have basically had alot of our heroes being controlled by there trauma. Audiences are being reminded of their own traumas through these stories and the stories are no longer being escapes. The two exceptions to this is spiderman and shang-chi which are shot and directed like earlier marvel films.
Given how Ragnorok was, I was expecting a lot of the comedy. I am more in the Winston camp, as I knew what I was getting into, but I also see Coy and Kristian point. I also watched this movie after weeks of dealing with post partum depression, so the comedy is what I needed. I may feel differently about this movie watching at a different time
I still prefer Ragnarok over Love and Thunder. I loved the start of Gorr's story and Jane's but felt they sped through their transition to The God Butcher and Mighty Thor, a bit more time on them at the start I feel would have helped how I feel about their emotional moments. They just had a lot going on for a short run time which is why some characters just have small moments and not much else to do. The Shadow powers were pretty sick to see and they did a good job on how Eternity looks.
I respect your opinion Kristian, because I understand completely where you are coming from. I enjoyed the movie but where Ragnarok is cemented in top 10, this is more difficult to place on 1st watch and feels like middle tier. I agree about all of the stuff with Gorr and Jane, perhaps if they let their stories breathe a bit I would have been more invested. Maybe if Jane vs. Gorr felt more like the main story & it was Thor trying to intervene because of her health it would have hit harder. While we certainly got that I think I was expecting it to hit like Ragnarok. Having just watched it and then Infinity War and Endgame, this fell short of my expectations (but also there’s no time like the present to take a big swing) so I’m conflicted. 💯 want to rewatch and I hope that my biggest issues wash away and I can just enjoy it for what it is.
There is no way in hell you can call me a member of the "general audiance". I have... oh geez, thousadns? tens of thousands? of dollars worth of comic books and comic book paraphernalia. Regarding the MCU I've seen each of the movies multiple times. Going into Love and Thunder I rewatched Thor, Avengers, Dark World, Age of Ultron, Ragnarok, IW/EG just because I was so excited going in. And I absolutely LOVED Love and Thunder. I've seen some say that Thor was too OP at the start of the movie, but was he? Just because he took down an army that the GotG couldn't deal with? Really? In Rag we see that took on the hordes of Surtur.. I doubt the GotG could deal with them. In IW we see he turns the battle in their favor. Just one guy. In the comics, the latest run with Donny Cates, the Avengers, including Capt. Marvel, were struggling with an alien invasion and about to lose. Then Thor shows up and the same thing happens. He single handedly destroys the alien army. It is also mentioned through out that Thor IS the most powerful god in the Marvel Universe. He lives eons after all the others are dead. I know thats the comics, but my point is, he may seem OP, but that is only because he IS OP. The humor at the start.. that is Thor learning how to deal with his depression. I'm not sure why this is so hard for people to get. In EG we see he goes into a dark place, gives up, gets fat and eat and drinks his sadness away. He goes off with the GotG, who are very into the 80s.. and also very goofy. So Thor is trying to find himself and he mimics what he sees. We also see later on with Jane at the hospital that Thor is hiding his anger with humor. He says to her that meditation he did only made him angrier, we never saw that anger... thats him trying to hide it. Now, I DO totally agree that this went too far into the humor. I wish it were more balanced like in IW. I thought Rag was like 40/60 serious/humor... this was like 15/85. So just too much humor. I loved the humor though so I can't really call it much of a negative. THIS movie is a comedy. Ok. Dark World was the opposite and its considered one of the worst MCU movies. So I'd rather have this I guess. Zeus.. I thought it was spot on. Zeus IS all about orgies. lol It was perfect. I do wish that Gorr showed up there and we got a sequence where he killed a lot of the gods.. maybe after Thor left or something. The one thing I am mixed on is probably the kids being shazamed. I'm ok with Thor realizing he has the power to do that.. he is basically the All Father now and can do that if he wanted.. but it was sloppy. Was it Thunder Bolt that empowered them? Whats with the yellow lightning? The kids having Thor's power and fighting was cute... but I think it was just too much. Some super cute moments. BUT I would have rather they just let may Axel do it or two or three of the older kids or something, but not all of them. I don't really like ranking movies.. actually hate it. I mean, I LOVE Logan.. I love MoS. I love Thor.. Some days I want to watch Logan.. other days I want to watch MoS.. and other days I want to watch even Dark World (lol). So I can't and won't rank things anymore because I realize how meaningless it is. That being said I absolutely LOVE Thor, Thor: Ragnarok and Thor: Love and Thunder. I didn't love Dark World, but I didn't hate it either. I enjoyed parts of it and will watch it again. So Thor: Love and Thunder is an A movie for me, one of my favorites in the MCU and I will probably go see it in the theater for a 3rd time with in a week or two.
also, never seen so many critics use the term 'for me' when since phase4. Back when they were all bashing other things it was just facts or the term 'you'. Now it's all about not stomping on others.
As a super casual Marvel fan, very casual. This was the first Thor movie I had seen in theatres, hadn’t even seen Ragnarok. However, the story is straightforward. Awesome sequences and visuals. The jokes land 98% of the time. Sure there’s a few flaws & I pray for the directors cut to make it out to BluRay or dreaming services🙏🏼Bale was perfect, we need to see more of those Gore scenes in a directors cut. The audience loved it, everyone laughed and had an enjoyable experience. Overall I scored it a 7.1/10
Ragnarok is easily in my top 5 for the MCU. Being Australian and Islander, I think the stylistic turn was softened for me because of how specific the the comedy was for AU and NZ. Being a comic reader, Winston and Coys “new comic run” analogy resonates with me greatly. But I can absolutely see how the tonal switch could mess with people who are film only fans. I actually love Love & Thunder more than Ragnarok.
I 100% agree with Kristian on this one. By no means did I hate this movie, but certain parts definitely irked me the wrong way the majority of which were in the first half. For example the jokes with the hammers where they were creeping into the shots I thought were funny but giving them more character than that I thought was overkill. So happy to see Jane as a real character this movie and you can tell Natalie Portman was trying to be charismatic and it worked! Gorr is the MVP of this movie followed by Thor's arms. Holy shit dude put the dumbbell down a sec.
100% agree w you all. The first hour almost lost me even though i laughed with some jokes. Im in on the new thor but Ragnorak was hands down better as it balanced everything almost perfectly.
I agree the movie needed a little more drama, the movie was ok but i needed more drama to get more attached to the movie, i had a shoulder shrugg feeling at the end
I'll answer the question right off the back, Thor: Love and Thunder sits somewhere, comfortably in the worst entries in the MCU. IT'S BAD... JUST BAD!!!!! I may be in the minority here, but I'd be perfectly fine if Taika Waititi NEVER directs anything else in the marvel universe.
I tend to think that there should have been more space between the jokes. However, I absolutely loved the scene in the negative zone! It was tense, beautifully shot and had gravitas. The choice that Russell Crow made with that accent was interesting for sure. All in all, there was a ton of potential here for a phenomenal move had a few choices been different. As it is, I really liked it and thought it very good.
I agreed with a lot of points here. I think Ragnarok balanced the comedy and drama almost perfectly. And maybe knowing this is mostly comedy I'll like it better in a rewatch. But I feel like I never felt tense in the moments I should have because they went heavy-handed on the comedy. My other complaint was I thought Jane would be the star of this movie with Thor transitioning out, and instead she got to be his sidekick while he cracked jokes every other minute. Her arc as Thor is one of my favorites in the comics, so I felt shortchanged with what I got. We also didn't get enough of Valkyrie, who stole the show in Ragnarok. If they had to go heavy on the comedy, I would have loved a buddy comedy with Valkyrie and Lady Thor. Having said that, to end on a positive - as Coy likes to do - I loved the drastic difference between Jane as Thor vs Jane as cancer patient. Both her physical posture and the makeup showed such a stark difference between those two modes. I also loved the scenes where everything was black & white *except* the lightning from the weapons. There's definitely stuff that works in this film, I just needed the tone to be more balanced.
I think all of you have great points. However, my main issue with the movie was the lack of Christian Bale. They missed the opportunity to have the best villain in the MCU. I feel like they "Disneyfied" this movie too much. Taika is able to do a dark comedy (Jo Jo Rabbit) without losing depth of the characters. I also know that with Sony having some of the rights, they might not have been able to go where they wanted to with Gorr the God Butcher, but Taika should have used Bale's acting chops more. I loved the new Doctor Strange movie because Wanda was believable as the villain and they allowed Sam Raimi to have his dark humor ala Evil Dead / Drag Me to Hell while still being a Marvel movie. Although I would have preferred more scares because Feige said it would be a horror film. I loved Love & Thunder, but it's definitely not Ragnarok. Like Kristian, I will love it more the second time, but honestly, season 4 of Stranger Things has been the best thing I've seen this year and only Black Phone comes close to it.
Kristian I honestly think you’ll enjoy Guardians 2 on a rewatch more. I’m with you where I feel it’s too joke heavy and I’m with you on this movie too. However I actually have Guardians ranked higher than this movie because guardians did have those serious moments that this moment missed. Yondu dying/his funeral. Quill finding out Ego put the cancer inside his mom. The moment between Gamora and nebula where nebula says that Gamora always had to win and she just wanted a sister. Rocket realizing that he’s going down a Yondu path where he’s treating everyone like dirt and will loose all his friends, etc. obviously characters like Drax and Nebula are the weaker ones as they’re very forced joke heavy and steer away from the first movie. But if you didn’t enjoy Love/Thunder cause there wasn’t enough emotional moment. Then I honestly think it’ll help you appreciate this movie just a little bit more than the last time you watched it. My mcu bottom 10 ranking just for reference is 25. Age of Ultron 26. IM3 27. Ant-Man & Wasp 28. Incredible Hulk 29. Guardians 2 30. Love/Thunder 31. Dark World 32. IM2 33. Multiverse of Madness 34. Captain Marvel
Phase 4 is very similar to Phase 1 in that they're doing a lot of set up, yes (and if you're knowledgeable enough on the source material you can 100% see exactly what they're building towards); however, this is Phase 4. The MCU no longer has they luxury the did in Phase 1 where they had to find they're footing; they're 29 (30?) projects in not counting the shows. They should know how to navigate these choppier waters by now. Plus when you factor in the shows, you can see the larger problem that they're just making too much at once/back to back. Hopefully they dial back the output in Phase 5 to better work out the kinks.
or fans can realize that expectations aren't reality and it's not their properties. What Coy said here 34:50 is what I find a lot of fans don't have the self awareness to notice.
@@thetrib1 What you're saying isn't wrong, MoM receiving complaints about there being "not enough cameos" is proof of that, but there are glaring narrative/logical issues both within singular films and the MCU as a whole within this current phase. Even on the show side, for the same issues to be highlighted (namely pacing) across the board is a sign that something on a fundamental storytelling level isn't clicking
I really love discussions you guys have in these spoiler reviews, even if I don't agree with whatever opinion, I can totally understand why each of you feel that way. So much better than readin all the "it's basic,' "it's mid", "it sucks," that's all over the internet. Thanks.
I loved this movie. Saying that, I definitely agree that there could have been a smidge more seriousness. But I still loved it. I also think a reason that Thor is so ridiculous and a joke, is because he's been through so much loss and trauma...that yes he got back in shape, but he's (to me) using the comedy & jokes to push everyone away and trying to keep himself safe from more pain. And that's why to me it took 50 minutes into the movie for Thor to be real. So to me the jokes yes we're a lot but when I look at it like that it makes sense. Thor was using comedy as a defense mechanism. Great episode guys! Loved the conversation.
It’s the second best to me. To me they did balance Gorr and Jane with the comedy. I do have some problems with the movie and I like Ragnarok more than Love and Thunder because of some of those problems. I do have to watch love and thunder again though, maybe I’ll get a different perspective, but after seeing it once the serious stuff did hit home and the comedy fit nicely around it.
I respectfully disagree with Coy's comparison between Phase 1 and 4. The first Ironman film post credit scene set up the formation of the Avengers in the future. Phase 4 lacks that.
The whole phase set up everything for the avengers. Iron mans Nick fury cameo. The destroyer coming to earth and coulson helping. Captain America set up the cube and Hulk is just hulk. But the whole thing was moving in a direction of the Mash-Up. Phase 4 is just “CONSUME OUR CONTENT AND YOU WILL LIKE IT!”
The first time I watched “Love and Thunder” I had the same opinion as Kristian. I thought the 1st 40 to 50min of this movie wasn’t really all that great but I did think the last remaining hour was really good. Upon my 2nd viewing I was able to enjoy the 1st half of the movie a lot more knowing what I was going to get
Basically sound like talking about Star Wars. Some want same old formula because "they're use to to".. like original trilogy.. except its phase 1 to 3.. going keep comparing those phases to phase 4, which looks like theyre basically starting over. I like they are taking risk trying new stuff with adding comedy adventure romantic comedy ti the genre.. if marvel movies stayed like phase 1, comic book movies probably would've died out like westerns. I agree 70-30 should be comedy and serious. I honestly like Thor meet Deadpool but anyways i agree with Winston more i had good time. A lot of scenes with Peter Dinklage, Lena Headley were taking out including dead gods hanging and posted by Gorr the God Butcher including Jane Foster changing into Mighty Thor when she looked at Mormir in the glass. Maybe that couldve made difference but i had fun, kids fighting instead of gods fighting dark creatures was cool. I'm glad Thor not Shakespeare like in comics but I agree he could be more warrior than muscle head.. Jane and Valkrye were 70- 30 where Thor was reversed. Overall i see 50-50 for this film..either way I enjoyed the discussion now let's do all Police Academy..lol
I said this in your other spoiler review and I’ll say it here too. Really had a great time with this one. I do wish it had a better balance though like Ragnarok, like you mentioned.
I definitely did not enjoy 'Thor: Love and Thunder.' It felt like a spoof/parody of the MCU, therefore, I couldn't take it seriously which then meant I didn't care about anything that happened. Going into the movie I was the most excited about Natalie Portman's return BUT, unfortunately, Jane Foster's entire storyline was rushed. Marvel Studios should've either given Natalie Portman her own Mighty Thor movie OR a Jane Foster Disney+ series that was all about her struggling with the cancer and her experience becoming The Mighty Thor. We needed more time with Jane to become more emotionally invested especially since we haven't seen her since 'Thor: The Dark World' from 2013. Because her storyline was so rushed, I felt nothing when she died at the end of the movie. This movie desperately needed more Gorr. He’s known as the God Butcher but we only see him butcher one god on screen. He wasn’t much of a threat in the movie. Christian Bale gave a great performance but it felt like he was in a completely different movie because the movie's tone was all over the place. It's a mess.
I do agree Kristian actually, I think this is a big jump from Ragnarok. And also just saying the movie is 70/30 comedy doesn't really matter, it's how does the comedy fit into and work in the story.
Glad that I settled for the Imax Laser projector version someone took cam too lmao, I'm nit a torrent cam guy at all, especially for a marvel film...but the tech and cameras are getting wild! You'd swear 75% of it was a Blu ray, a few night time scenes were tough but doable. All that legal Grey areas aside, the whole idea of Korg telling the story is what I use as the excuse for it being so goofy...but even still it was tough. A really fun watch with some great visuals but it reminded me more of a Disney+ Marvel special. If it was advertised as a straight comedy then it would've been less jarring. So even tho it was fun and Gor was amazing (despite clearly having a ton cut) visuals were great and all the actors did a good job. I would've loved to see a Gor centric film with the Natalie Portman Cancer aspect cut. It's a cool premise in the comic but I didn't find it really essential for this. Seemed forced.
After the success of "Ragnarok" and Taika's other recent successes, I expected him to have way more creative control this time. And ultimately, this movie ended up being exactly what I expected it to be, under those circumstances. While "Ragnarok" still stays at the top of my list, "L&T" is definitely my second favorite Thor film.
To me, the drama and depth was just as present as the ridiculous humor and neither of those aspects took away from either side. I love the movie, overall, but I do love it far more for it's drama. Yet, I enjoy the wild polarization. It does two things, for me: 1) it represents life in its ridiculous absurdity (humor) along with the depths of tragedy and despair (which also gives birth to heroism) and 2) the humorous segments (which were kept pretty separate from the opposite segments) helped balance out the audience's experience with the depths of seriousness the rest of the movie contained. It was somewhat like going through childhood, and then getting smacked in the face with the reality of life and death. I don't know... it worked big time for me and I highly respect the accomplishment of this movie and that the MCU is going to these extremes in story telling. I really love the MCU existing with stories being told from a different lens. I don't see them as not matching tones. I see them as several tones fitting within the same world. A story is told through the storyteller's lens. Even within ourselves, we experience some days, some experiences, some periods of our lives, rather differently than we do at other times. I don't mind, at all, movies within the same universe having a different tone/lens. I actually really appreciate it and enjoy it. I'd like to think more of us could use a step back and appreciation of alternate perspectives.
I am actually in line with you Kristian. I liked the movie a lot but mainly more for the second half of it. The first half I agree was way overdone on the comedy. My ranking is the same as well. I felt the first Thor movie was better.
I rated this 3.4 out of 5 after my 1st Thursday screening. Then went with friends to a Friday IMAX screening and felt better about this movie. Was able to sit back absorb things I missed and enjoy the scenes with the rock music. It's by default the 2nd best Thor movie to me above Thor and Thor Dark World.
I think fans had so much faith in Taika Waititi they didn't think it could do any wrong. People loved Ragnarok, it was such a refreshing change after Dark World that no one anticipated Love and Thunder not being another huge win for Marvel.
I really dug this film. I’m also just happy to see a MCU solo series get past 3 films. Hope for a couple more , but not sure if Waititi should do them. Reminds me of Sam Mendes with Skyfall and Spectre. Maybe should have left it at one film. Also think the Jane/Cancer storyline was just not a good fit for him. My hope is Marvel finds another fresh direction for Thor 5. Go with a different tone.
Love the rewatch idea for Thor Love & Thunder. I Think I need to watch this again. Seem to silly for me but expecting it my make viewing better. Right now my order is 1. Thor Ragnorock 2. Thor 3. Love & Thunder 4. The Dark World. Thanks Winsten & Coy for your input about the film. Think I am still in the place where Kristian is until I see the movie again. Thanks love the Big Thing so much!!
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I definitely agree with the balance in Ragnarok being near perfect. The humor is smart and funny. The action and seriousness is placed perfectly. This movie takes it to the extreme. My feelings on this is like Kristian’s on Guardians. The humor just did not land with me in this one. It sucks because I can see the more balanced, serious, heavy themes trying to shine through.
Agreed. It was like they tried too hard to be funny and it just wasn't. And when it came time to be serious they ruined it. There also a lack of emotions. For example when Jane died I didn't feel any sadness or connection like there should've been. Everything seemed to be a joke.
Still rag was joke heavy and flippant
@@ReluctantSpirit for sure. Just felt more balanced to me and more likely, the jokes landed for me so it was more enjoyable.
Strange how people used to complain about the MCU stifling directors visions too much and not letting do what they wanted to do and now it's totally flipped and we get complaints about Doctor Strange being TOO Raimi, Eternals being TOO Zhao and now Thor being TOO Taika. Like you ask why fix what wasn't broken but soooo many people always used to complain that Marvel didn't let its directors be fully creative. Now they are. It's interesting
I don’t care what Taika’s vision is…Thor shouldn’t have dialogue like it’s an episode of friends. The tone of the movie is all over the place and he has a responsibility to at least respect the continuity of the franchise
Great point with reversing the dialogue with Thor and Lady Sif! Had she brought up the hand joke to add levity to a serious scene, it completely works and makes the scene better.
I agree with Winston that *for most people* the start of the MCU being too director driven and not Feige driven enough was Eternals.
I love Thor: Love and Thunder more than Ragnorak because how it brought back characters from the first two Thor films. I’m among the minority but I loved the first two films and I love the Jane character and her friends Darcy & Selvig and was happy that they showed up “even briefly” in the film. For me, it was a culmination of all the Thor films. I love how this film reminded the audience “through its brilliant montage” of how much Thor has lost in his life like his family and friends & how he needs to be okay with death now and gets the chance to say a proper goodbye this time to a passing person in his life like Jane. 😢 The film isn’t perfect but it worked for me because of this. Thank y’all for the spoiler review! 🙏😊
Great seeing Darcy. Should have had one more scene with her reacting to Jane becoming “Thor”. No shot of her concern that her friend that’s stage 4 cancer disappeared.
I think I can see Winston's point that once he realized the tone of the movie, he enjoyed it. I saw the movie twice, and I laughed more the 2nd time, and I think it's because I knew what the movie was going to be. Aaaand, I'm going a 3rd time because I enjoyed the movie. It's fluff with some depth, and I had a good time. Christian Bale was great, and I think my one nitpick is he wasn't in the movie more. My sister loved the kids, and I did too. BTW, I heard some of the Gorr butchering was cut... did anyone know if that's fact or fiction? I could have used more of that for the character.
There’s hopefully a director cut coming. You’re correct, there were lots of Gore scenes cut. Which I so hope we see 🙏🏼
@@daggy561 there’s definitely never going to be a directors cut of this. Taika said he doesn’t like them.
I was on board with the tone as soon as Thor started reciting his speech that Starlord clearly made for him.
There's supposedly a 4 hour "monty python esque" version of this movie
Didn’t like it 🤷🏾♂️
My ranking is as follows:
1. Thor: Ragnarok - easily the funnest, most fulfilling and rewatchable movie of the series that balances comedy and drama so well. The movie came at a perfect time when the Thor character and Chris Hemsworth himself needed new life injected into him, and boy did we get that. This leads into Infinity War perfectly and continues the arc of Thor into both that movie and Endgame which in my opinion is the most interesting Thor has been, we are able to finally connect with him in a human level given the amount of loss he has had in his life.
2. Thor - the effects are a bit dated now given the MCU has advanced so much, however the tale of Thor having to prove to his father that he is worthy and earth coming to terms with his arrival was really interesting to see and the tone is kept consistent throughout, which is why it ranks above my next entry. Also, seeing Loki beginning his villainous arc was a treat to see.
3. Thor: Love and Thunder - Gorr and Jane are absolute standouts, their arcs make total sense and how they play out are immensely satisfying. However, the emotional beats do not hit me as hard because the movie is so filled with silly and goofy humour that its hard to take it seriously when it wants you to and the tone is so messy that I didn’t know what way to take the movie.
4. Thor: The Dark World - i’ve never hated this movie and it isn’t even my worst MCU movie like may claim it to be. I don’t think the movie does anything particularly great or awful - its just the definition of mediocre. The villain is the the one awful thing about the film for me, apart from that its pretty watchable and Loki was the scene stealer.
I am very close but I might actually put Dark World over this, need to watch again
@@TheKristianHarloff i actually contemplated that myself to be honest with you! I think Dark World has a more consistent tone.
@@TheKristianHarloff i never thought they could make a worse MCU movie than Thor the dark world but they did it with this one
Nah, I'll take Thor over Taika's movies any day. They are well made from a technique standpoint but the choices of adaptation make them unwatchable for me. Glad we aren't going to see this Thor for a long time.
@@DeeFR3E age of ultron and iron man 3 exists
I totally agree with Kristian about the balance, Love and Thunder doesn't have enough serious moments where Thor isn't being funny. He's funny when he find Sif, when he talks to the kids, and with Zeus. He's only serious with Jane towards the end but it's such a short scene that it feels too little too late. I can't really explain why Ragnarok is better because it has the same issues, but it felt more serious to me than this.
My ranking and how I feel on each:
1. Ragnarok (Great)
2. Love and Thunder (Good)
3. Thor 1 (Good)
4. Dark World (Okay)
Thor 1 above love and thunder for me
1. Ragnarok (Okay)
2. LAT (Bad)
3. Thor 1 (haven't seen it)
4. Dark World (haven't seen it)
Categories are
1. Great
2. Really Good
3. Good
4. Okay
5. Bad
I LOVED Ragnoke and had really high expectations for Love and Thunder. But, after it was over I turned to my brother and said it was too much comedy. I wanted a good balance between seriousness and comedy like Ragnoke. I wish we could have seen more of Gorr destroying the God's to really understand the seriousness of stopping him. I still really enjoyed Christian Bale but wanted more. Natalie Portman was great and the chemistry with Chris Hemsworth is what I needed and wished for from the first 2 Thor's. Loved the goats though! I might change my mind after a 2nd viewing but for right now it's 7/10 for me.
One thing that I noticed with the humor in Love and Thunder that’s different from Ragnarok is that this movie does a lot of physical humor here. The goats running into stuff, Thor doing the splits on 2 space vehicles, the weapons are floating around being funny, Zeus flailing his skirt around, the dumpling God, the kids using funny Thor powered weapons, etc. Ragnarok had a little of that but not to this extent. Most of the Ragnarok humor comes from dialogue. Ragnarok also had an underlying level of drama throughout. This is damn near slapstick comedy with barely any dramatic undertones.
In Ragnarok there’s funny stuff but the underlying character stuff bleeds through and weaves with the comedy. For example, the most slapsticky moment in Ragnarok is probably when Thor and Loki do the “get help” bit. It’s absurd and it’s funny. However, even that little bit gives you a little character insight into both of them. It gives you a glimpse into their past, their current relationship and that underneath it all, they’re still brothers. This movie doesn’t have stuff like that. It’s damn near ALLLLLLL jokes.
But what about the moment with Valkyrie drunk and falling off her ship when she is first introduced? You can say there is still character written underneath, but it is very Taika comdey bit?
@@brianng8350 you already pointed out the difference. That comedy had character depth infused with it. She’s not just falling off because it’s a funny bit. She’s falling because part of her arc is that she’s fallen so far from what she used to be. And that not only plays into her story, but Hela’s as well.
I feel like the biggest problem with the film was that we didn't see Gorr wreak havoc to the same extend as Hela in Ragnarok. I think cutting scenes with Gorr torturing and killing Grandmaster and Eitri would've made the stakes more palpable and people be more forgiving about the humor in this film.
Very well put my guy! For me, again, for ME (not saying this is how everyone does or should look at it) physical comedy has its limits, you can only do it so many times until I go, “ok I’m about done with this”.
@@ryancraig6675 the absence of him killing gods kinda annoyed me, I was hoping to see some of that in the first act or so. He’s the fucking God Butcher and we saw him kill one god in the whole movie.
Pretty much completely agree with Kristen.
Winston has literally said what I've been saying, Phase 4 is not directionless as much as it's the setup. We will learn more in the future. I trust in Fiege!🙏
We are essentially in phase 1 again and those movies were much more uneven than later phase 2-3
@@dmen0563 agreed man
Congrats on getting over 50k subs brother, that's awesome and is fully deserved!
I liked it. It’s nowhere near as bad as Thor 2 and I liked it more than Thor 1. For me, this is definitely the most disappointing MCU movie. Ragnarok is in my top 10 MCU movies and I’ve loved every one of Taika’s movies so far. I was expecting so much more from this movie.
Totally agree friend, i’ve never been more disappointed with an MCU entry before as I was with this one. The expectancy I had was to match or better the level of Ragnarok given it was the same creative team behind it, but it fell way short of the bar.
It's far worse than Thor 1 and 2.
I loved the movie, after hearing how it like a cartoon I was shocked at how serious it was from the start.
I felt the comedy was a perfect juxtaposition to the villian, the gods are a self obsessed joke, totally not serious and it's a perfect balance to this.
I felt it was a serious movie with jokes to help juxtaposition that.
Happy you enjoyed it!
Glad you guys kinda covered the topic of directors having freedom… It's a tough thing, because Marvel has been criticized for not letting their directors be true to their own sensibilities, and being forced to adhere to the "Marvel" formula.... However with stuff like "Eternals", "Multiverse of Madness", and now "Love & Thunder", where Chloe Zhao, Sam Raimi and Taika Waititi were all legit given free rein to adjust to their respective styles, depending on how you look at it, they have come up with mixed results, as the final products to some, have felt somewhat half-baked; while others are balking against these stylistic choices, period. There has to be some balance. Harloff, you did ask “why fix what’s broken?”, Cody was on point by saying “It might get stale.” And if we’re being honest, that’s always been the risk and criticism of the MCU: that their formula would become stale. For all the criticisms of Phase 4, I do have to acknowledge that This era of the MCU has probably been the most experimental, and there’s merit to that. The problem though is that this new exercise in creativity has to refine the individual storytelling, so these movies/shows stand strong on their own.
You still have to guide the movie and keep it on track. Letting the runtime balloon up to 4+ hrs and paying several big actors millions of dollars for cameos that just get cut is a waste of everyone’s time and money
@@chevster23 I don't disagree. There definitely has to be middle ground for sure. It's just that after ten years, and the fact that that particular criticism has been a rampart, it's also not surprising that they would just let directors go all out. But to your point about guiding the movie and keeping it on track: there has to be balance. Collaboration in the truest sense. It kinda makes me wonder if "Ant-Man" were to be made *today* , would Edgar Wright had been allowed to make his movie?
Came for the spoiler discussion, stayed for the Masterclass on the art and science of the comedy genre. I always enjoy spoiler discussions with three distinct opinions on the movie. Ragnarok is still my favorite because I felt the story was more fluid and gave the character a much needed reset, as well as the inclusion of the Hulk and Planet Sakaar.
What was notable to me was the juxtaposition between the cold open and the mid-credits scene. So Gorr is a man who was devoted to his god to where he feared him and that devotion betrays him and his daughter. This represents an element of modern society that has shifted away from believing in institutions of power for betraying their faith. On the opposite spectrum, Zeus is enraged that the people have lost their faith in their gods because they don't fear them, yet at the same time removes himself from interacting with his subjects because he feels he is above them. And that represents a sector of modern society that believes society is crumbling because the people don't have faith in power that derives from fear and obedience. But my question is: why expect people as loyal subjects to devote themselves to a higher power not out of reward but out of fear of punishment? It creates an expectation that inequality is to be accepted as a necessary element of civilization never to be questioned or challenged. And as we are seeing in today's society, it is certainly being questioned and challenged.
Also, I noticed there hasn't been a lot of discussion about the appearance of Eternity, an all-powerful cosmic entity, which can play heavily into the future of the MCU, not just on a cosmic level but on a metaphysical level when it comes to the physical nature and sentience of the universe. I'm also pretty sure I saw the Living Tribunal somewhere in the background.
In any case, I enjoyed the hell out of this movie and I feel it worked on many levels. A very worthy and mighty addition to the Thor mythos in the MCU.
Winston's point about the Axe body spray, spot on.
Congrats on hitting 50k subs Kristian! You've earned every single one and I'm excited for you to cross the 100k milestone in the near future.
Thanks so much!!
I don't think the MCU will ever be the same without the original avengers and great discussion Kristian!
I think people are just burnt out with Marvel, and most of the original cast isn't there.
I'm a bit of a anomaly, the first Thor, I thought, was really good. And the scene when Odin banishes Thor is so powerful. Now, Love and Thunder is just as good as Ragnorok. It's kind of the opposite side of the same coin. Ragnorok deals with accpecting your fate and dealing with it, and Love and Thunder is learning from your past to make a better future. So good, and the imagery in Love and Thunder, especially at the end seeing the reflection in the water....omg was so good
I'm with you, I actually think the first Thor movie is vastly underrated. That scene with Odin and where he realizes he's not worthy anymore trying to lift the hammer, so powerful. And all the Asgard mythology and family turmoil with Odin and Thor and Loki, it's a story about fathers and sons really. And Kenneth Brannah is an excellent director. The more I talk about it, the more I think it's actually the best Thor movie overall, Ragnarok is more entertaining definitely, but I think Thor is the best film in the series
I’m with Winston on this movie. It hit super well for me. The heavy subject matter hit for me personally. But I can totally see your point of view as well. BUT my favs of the year would be EEAAO, Top Gun, Stranger Things, The Boys, The Batman for sure.
I’m definitely on Winston’s camp but I’m having a hard time choosing if I like this better than Ragnarok or not. It’s like my brain is saying Ragnarok is better but my heart is saying otherwise lol. This maybe my favorite video you three have done together thus far! Great job guys!
For me, I thought the movie did a good job of explaining Thor’s mental state in the beginning. Between Korg’s storytelling in the beginning, Thor only going out when someone says they need him, and the conversation after the battle between Starlord and Thor, I thought the movie showed Thor after Endgame didn’t feel wanted in the universe and therefore would dial it to an 11 when he was wanted to make himself try and feel something. The goofy comedy of the movie worked for me because I felt it made sense for his character to want to be over the top goofy
Glad you enjoyed it Jack!
Hands down my favorite part of this episode was when Kristian, right at the end quoted my favorite basketball player of all-time Kevin Garnett. "ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE!!!" I love it! LETS GO!!!
Haha thanks!
The comedic tone threw me off of all “believability” and therefore empathy for each character. Therefore it turned into motion picture skittles both comedically and visual fx wise, and by the end I was all sugared out.
My personal favourite Thor was infinity war, where he was comedic and also sensible and powerful. Anything too devoid of that looks off to me. When I heard the characters talking I heard taika and not the characters.
I love Coy but man these are some bad takes. Explains for 3 minutes genuine faults with the movie then at the end saying. “Once I adjusted my expectations I loved it”. That’s wild dude.
Hey to each their own!
That’s exactly how I felt, Chavez. I feel like Coy is afraid to upset Disney/Marvel and his takes on here felt scripted.
@@TBKingViper very scripted and careful. He’s trying to make it as an interviewer/pundant. He can’t just outwardly blast marvel if he wants to work in the future.
Nah I agree with Coy. Soon as knew it was going to be like Meet The Spartans, I just ate an edible and enjoyed it for being dumb schlock. Taika made it bad on purpose.
Chavez, he said straight up that he likes to start with the negatives and land positive. I get that.
I do agree with some opinions that Coy is overly positive on these reviews but let's all remember that it's his job to hype these movies. It would be hard for Marvel to hire him as a host for screenings if he is being too negative on their films.
And that’s the problem. We don’t need this kind of coverage. It feels artificial. I’m guessing most people watching kristians channel are not 12 years old
I loved this movie. I didn't know what to think after the first viewing, but was sure after my second viewing. Only complaints is that there needed to be more Gorr. Not because they didn't flesh him out or anything, but because I loved his take so much. My other complaint is that I wish they had written in some explanation on why no one ever went to eternity before, why none of the gods helped with Thanos and why Thor hasn't used the power transferring before. Minor complaints that I can look over easily, but stuff I know will bother others.
2 months later, but it's possible the Thunderbolt weapon played a role in allowing Thor to transfer his powers. If you notice, the powers the kids have are using the same golden color of Thunderbolt, as opposed to the usual blue of Thor's power.
And I also loved this movie!
The chemistry with you three just works
Thank you!
I watched/read some reviews before I saw it which I don’t usually do but like a lot of people I’ve had a bit of Marvel fatigue recently so I wasn’t sure I was going to see it, especially when there were a few negative reviews.
I’m really glad I did though - I enjoyed it, it was a very rounded movie with elements of darkness and lots of levity. Cast was great, Taika is 2 for 2 with Thor imo.
Edit: spelling
One of the things I wish Taika had done was kill his darling- and by darling, I mean, Korg. I loved the character in lower doses but too much of him kills that love.
For me I like Ragnarok a little bit more. For me the front loaded heavy comedy really worked as it was a reflection of where Thor was at. He's keeping everyone and everything at arms length and to do that he goes overboard on the humor so as to not take stuff seriously. I actually loved how the Sif scene worked because she is a reminder of his losses so the coping mechanism goes in overdrive. Big thing that didn't work for me was Russell's Zeus which the performance would have matched up well with the Asgardian Thespian Troupe play but not the actual story. While the ending was done really well you could see it coming from the very beginning which is ultimately why Ragnarok is a little higher on my list.
PS- when does the first Infinity Cones open up and where?
I need to see it again to decide if I like it more than Ragnorak, but I loved this movie, completely understood what Taika was trying to accomplish, and it all worked for me (except 5 minutes of Rocket & Thor would have been better than the whole guardians thing - that seemed a bit forced. ) The interesting thing for me is that I've seen Ragnorak so many times and never think about it as serious - every dramatic moment changes immediately to comedy, even when Odin dies - but THIS movie made me cry 3 times because they let those few dramatic moments marinate a little longer and the death scenes were far more emotional (to me.) So, for me, 💖&⚡ was 60/40 & Ragnorak was 70/30 comedy /drama. I'm #TeamWinston on this one, but respect you all! 😊
Same! This movie really made me tear up a lot. Hell, Just Bale's performance as Gorr in the opening scene hit me hard. Bale and Portman gave such astonishing portrayals (and they weren't the only ones, but, damn they are so great). 💖&⚡
I agree that the infinity war/endgame Thor is the the best Thor. The on and off goofy stuff throws me off. Love y'all discussion about the phase comparison! Can't believe you all loved the goats tho haha. They drove me crazy. I find Taika movies are hit and miss for me and this one was a miss :/.
A problem with thinking in terms of "phase 1" is that we're no longer in phase 1. They have a formula that works and has a certain level of expectations now. Businesswise, they're risking losing casual watchers if the connective tissue is missing ala my friends and family. The recent movies are feeling disconnected and lack a coherency. They're not as driven to see every MCU movie or TV show now.
Personally, I liked Thor 1 and 2. I think a key thing that makes phase 1-3 work is iron man, cap, thor, and the rest is being grounded in the real world. As the movies and shows become more comic-bookish, they edging towards being unwatchable (at least in the theater.) Right now, as I've said before, the only connective thread seems to be magic with Wandavision (my fav of the TV shows so far), Shang-Chi, and Dr Strange. We have this open question of so many long-lived entities on Earth (like thousands of years) that is seems impossible they have not interacted at some point. Where's mention of this literal celestial stone head poking out of Earth? They can keep mentioning the blip but not the moon-sized turned-to-stone being.
As to this movie, when it was done, I asked "What did I just watch?". It's a 50% to 60% rating. Most MCU land 75% to 85%.
Great episode guys! 😊
Commenting since you asked: I really liked it. I don't know if I like it more than Ragnarok yet, but it's close and miles ahead of the other two films. That said, I'm also a way bigger Taika fan than I am a Thor fan. I found the emotional beats still hit hard for me in spite of the comedic tone-considerably harder than the ones in Ragnarok even. Maybe it was the cancer story hitting harder because this is the only MCU movie that has a convincing romance. This movie managed to make Thor and Jane's relationship more convincing in a 5-minute montage than the previous three movies combined. I also found myself laughing out loud at the goats and the fight with the kids. I think the film is pretty much perfect as a family film.
I definitely understand why you and others would feel the tone leans too much towards comedy and not prefer that. I just found that it worked for me. For what it's worth, I really liked MoM, too. I'd rewatch either of those over most of the phase 1 and phase 2 films except maybe the first Iron Man and Guardians of the Galaxy.
As a counter to Kristian's point about the opening scene, the god that ridicules Gorr's devotion, actually takes a sinister turn in tone once he's fed up with Gorr. Which I think kinda works.
I don't disagree with that
I want to first say that I started reading thor back in 1967 he has always been one of my favorite characters, so it's fair to say I have a certain lock on his personality, character but I have to admit I like the goofy aspects. My wife who likes some marvel movies but is a harsh critic loved this thor and movie. She even loved the goats. They never got old. All of the thor movies I have never seen more than once at the theaters I have my tickets for a second showing it was a fun time at the movies. This would be ranked for me around number 10 or 12
Fair
Saw it twice over the weekend. Thursday opening night I was NOT into it & neither was my theatre. I think going into it on Saturday knowing what it was I was more open & enjoyed it more. Oddly enough the crowd audibly liked it more than the opening night one did.
Fair, amazing how mixed it is overall.
With kristian on this one
Liked to hear the different opinions but
-The second half of the play was over kill.
-I liked that zues but that bit needed to be toned down.
-sif joke needed a more heartfelt delivery as kristian said.
-kids at the end was a little bit if an eye roll.
This movie suffered because they let tika do what he wanted and it was to much.
I would have rarther korg die tbh.
I liked everything else
Thor is basically like the OG Batman franchise. Started out pretty modest like Batman 89. Now this flick is their Batman and Robin.
I loved it. I do wish we could’ve spent more time in the emotional parts (especially Thor with Gor’s daughter). But there were redeeming qualities. I found the Zeus stuff hilarious, but I have only really seen russell Crowe in les mis, as a gen z. The Hercules reveal got me GOOD. Love Brett Goldstein and cannot wait to see what he’s doing in the mcu.
Love this point of view, thank you Sidney!
If you know what it is, a fun, family movie… I think you’ll enjoy it. Especially on second viewing. I liked it the first viewing. I LOVED it even more with every rewatch.
1. Rag
2. Thor
3. Love and Thunder
4. DW
Love and Thunder felt like Beverly Hills Cop 3 to Ragnorok's Beverly Hills Cop 2.
It felt like an old school sequel that just tried to do everything funnier and more often than the previous film. My opinion.
I think more than the humor alone, it is the inconsistency with the character of Thor. The character was getting a bit stale after Thor 1 & 2, Avengers, and Ultron. Ragnarock shook it up but it still had a lot of seriousness. Infinite War nailed Thor. Serious, driven, yet still had unintentional, fish out of water humor. This is the best Thor has been. End Game took him too much into a goofy route and then Love and Thunder took him way beyond that. The character of Thor needs to be more consistent because it's hard to see his growth or change as a character if he's a different person in every film.
having these: "I think more than the humor alone, it is the inconsistency with the character of Thor.", and "The character of Thor needs to be more consistent because it's hard to see his growth or change as a character if he's a different person in every film."
and then having this: "The character was getting a bit stale after Thor 1 & 2, Avengers, and Ultron."
seems like consistency is the wrong word. I'd say the stale thor was consistent. and Ragnarok till now Thor has also been consistent. growth has happened in both versions of thor. So I don't really understand your point? they've been consistent with him even though there obviously was a pivot for the character.
so consistency is not the issue.
@@thetrib1 Thor in Infinity War is not the same character has Love and Thunder. He's a completely different person. Perhaps my wording could have been better. A person doesn't change from being a serious person to a goof ball. That isn't character growth. For a serious person, loosening up and learning to live some is growth. For a goof ball, learning to take accountability and be responsible is character growth. When a character changes so drastically it is harder to be invested in their story.
@@vanquish5023 You're being told a story. It isn't the person that changed, it's the perspective of the storyteller and how he chooses to tell it. In the film, that's Korg. Everything is filtered through Korg's perspective as he's telling the story. The core characteristics of Thor are all there, it's just that this particular story chooses to emphasize certain ones over others.
Hmm I agree with alot of what you said. I think the Coy mentioned it during the review also, but I think this Thor was still meant to still feel broken and lost, post Endgame. And being the charming and all-together Thor in Infinity War was no more. I think THIS movie was supposed to, or should have explored more, Thor juggling that struggle of being broken but wanting to go back to glory days of pre-Endgame. But I think why the character of Thor seems stale and lackluster with this movie is because I think they massively dropped the ball on expressing that. We should've gotten a more complex and layered Thor which shows him either struggle with his brokenness more or overcome it, kind of the arc and the payoff that we got with Spiderman. I think his way of moving on from it and growing as a character is probably going to be him taking on a dad role BUT the fact that I HAVE TO piece this together shows me how messy the directing was and poorly Thor's growth was delivered. It just seemed like a lesser rehash of Ragnorak. Seen it, done that kind of mentality for me.
BTW...After watching this, I completely understand why Joker 2 wants to go a completely different route by making it a musical now. It might be bonkers but trying to redo what they did with the first movie would make the 2nd one, "stale".
@@vanquish5023 hm...missed the point. here's a couple of questions that should help my point: Is Thor consistent in Thor 1 & 2, Avengers, and Ultron? if the answer is yes....then how did it get stale?
I feel like I agree 100% with you Kristian. On point, which makes sense cause you are actually a comedian that understands these things.
Ragnarok was a much better balance. This one felt like the main demographic was kids. Didn't love guardians 2 either. Guardians 1 was one of my favorites.
The show is at its best when you guys have differing opinions but a great discussion about it, I totally agree with the general consensus that this movie would have benefitted from like 20 more mins of drama
I haven’t watched Eternals since the cinema and only seen it once. Same with Spider-Man NWH. I saw DS2 in the cinema and I skimmed through DS2 once to just the fight scenes when it came on Disney plus.
I keep rewatching Shang Chi and I’ll probably go back to this few times too. Shang Chi is amazing.
I really liked Thor 4. 🙌
I loved THOR:Love and Thunder! What a ride 🙂
I wonder how many times Kristian has seen Guardians 2. Imo it really isn't as bad as he's making it out to be. I actually think it's a lot better than he's saying. Yes there is a lot of humor in it. But there are some deep themes of family (natural and those we make) and connecting to one another. Plus, that death scene at the end is so well done.
Haven't rewatched in a while to be fair.
Grats on 50K!
Kristian is exactly where I expected to be, but for some reason this whole movie worked for me even though I’m not really a fan of comedies.
Happy to hear that!
For the casual fans I know, the Matt Damon play helped remind them what happened to mjolnir. I think some are confused by the second hammer from Endgame.
Haha true
love the video and im going to go more in depth on our galaxy cast tonight, but i think alot of the difference between between phase 1 and phase 4 is, the types of stories we are getting. I compare what the audience want in stories to the real world. I compare for these characters endgame to being like for us 911. After 911 you saw everyone who died as a tragedy, but we really pushed and supported the heroes of the fireman and policeman and ambulances men and woman so we were really looking at these men and woman as larger then life people in a way. For marvel you see phase 1 as the larger then life heroes starting to be created and you see their journeys up until end game. Now for phase 4 instead of just creating new larger then life heroes to look up to we have basically had alot of our heroes being controlled by there trauma. Audiences are being reminded of their own traumas through these stories and the stories are no longer being escapes. The two exceptions to this is spiderman and shang-chi which are shot and directed like earlier marvel films.
Given how Ragnorok was, I was expecting a lot of the comedy. I am more in the Winston camp, as I knew what I was getting into, but I also see Coy and Kristian point. I also watched this movie after weeks of dealing with post partum depression, so the comedy is what I needed. I may feel differently about this movie watching at a different time
Glad you enjoyed the film Delisha!
35:00 THANK YOU Coy!!!!!!!! not for the grade but the reason for the grade. so many people don't understand that.
I still prefer Ragnarok over Love and Thunder. I loved the start of Gorr's story and Jane's but felt they sped through their transition to The God Butcher and Mighty Thor, a bit more time on them at the start I feel would have helped how I feel about their emotional moments. They just had a lot going on for a short run time which is why some characters just have small moments and not much else to do. The Shadow powers were pretty sick to see and they did a good job on how Eternity looks.
I respect your opinion Kristian, because I understand completely where you are coming from.
I enjoyed the movie but where Ragnarok is cemented in top 10, this is more difficult to place on 1st watch and feels like middle tier.
I agree about all of the stuff with Gorr and Jane, perhaps if they let their stories breathe a bit I would have been more invested. Maybe if Jane vs. Gorr felt more like the main story & it was Thor trying to intervene because of her health it would have hit harder. While we certainly got that I think I was expecting it to hit like Ragnarok.
Having just watched it and then Infinity War and Endgame, this fell short of my expectations (but also there’s no time like the present to take a big swing) so I’m conflicted. 💯 want to rewatch and I hope that my biggest issues wash away and I can just enjoy it for what it is.
There is no way in hell you can call me a member of the "general audiance". I have... oh geez, thousadns? tens of thousands? of dollars worth of comic books and comic book paraphernalia. Regarding the MCU I've seen each of the movies multiple times. Going into Love and Thunder I rewatched Thor, Avengers, Dark World, Age of Ultron, Ragnarok, IW/EG just because I was so excited going in. And I absolutely LOVED Love and Thunder.
I've seen some say that Thor was too OP at the start of the movie, but was he? Just because he took down an army that the GotG couldn't deal with? Really? In Rag we see that took on the hordes of Surtur.. I doubt the GotG could deal with them. In IW we see he turns the battle in their favor. Just one guy. In the comics, the latest run with Donny Cates, the Avengers, including Capt. Marvel, were struggling with an alien invasion and about to lose. Then Thor shows up and the same thing happens. He single handedly destroys the alien army. It is also mentioned through out that Thor IS the most powerful god in the Marvel Universe. He lives eons after all the others are dead. I know thats the comics, but my point is, he may seem OP, but that is only because he IS OP.
The humor at the start.. that is Thor learning how to deal with his depression. I'm not sure why this is so hard for people to get. In EG we see he goes into a dark place, gives up, gets fat and eat and drinks his sadness away. He goes off with the GotG, who are very into the 80s.. and also very goofy. So Thor is trying to find himself and he mimics what he sees.
We also see later on with Jane at the hospital that Thor is hiding his anger with humor. He says to her that meditation he did only made him angrier, we never saw that anger... thats him trying to hide it.
Now, I DO totally agree that this went too far into the humor. I wish it were more balanced like in IW. I thought Rag was like 40/60 serious/humor... this was like 15/85. So just too much humor. I loved the humor though so I can't really call it much of a negative. THIS movie is a comedy. Ok. Dark World was the opposite and its considered one of the worst MCU movies. So I'd rather have this I guess.
Zeus.. I thought it was spot on. Zeus IS all about orgies. lol It was perfect. I do wish that Gorr showed up there and we got a sequence where he killed a lot of the gods.. maybe after Thor left or something.
The one thing I am mixed on is probably the kids being shazamed. I'm ok with Thor realizing he has the power to do that.. he is basically the All Father now and can do that if he wanted.. but it was sloppy. Was it Thunder Bolt that empowered them? Whats with the yellow lightning? The kids having Thor's power and fighting was cute... but I think it was just too much. Some super cute moments. BUT I would have rather they just let may Axel do it or two or three of the older kids or something, but not all of them.
I don't really like ranking movies.. actually hate it. I mean, I LOVE Logan.. I love MoS. I love Thor.. Some days I want to watch Logan.. other days I want to watch MoS.. and other days I want to watch even Dark World (lol). So I can't and won't rank things anymore because I realize how meaningless it is. That being said I absolutely LOVE Thor, Thor: Ragnarok and Thor: Love and Thunder. I didn't love Dark World, but I didn't hate it either. I enjoyed parts of it and will watch it again. So Thor: Love and Thunder is an A movie for me, one of my favorites in the MCU and I will probably go see it in the theater for a 3rd time with in a week or two.
also, never seen so many critics use the term 'for me' when since phase4. Back when they were all bashing other things it was just facts or the term 'you'. Now it's all about not stomping on others.
Huh? What? Who?
26:57 Thor literally drinking and crying with Starlord in the first korg-narrated montage.
I wish we could have gotten a good balance of serious and funny
Same
As a super casual Marvel fan, very casual. This was the first Thor movie I had seen in theatres, hadn’t even seen Ragnarok. However, the story is straightforward. Awesome sequences and visuals. The jokes land 98% of the time. Sure there’s a few flaws & I pray for the directors cut to make it out to BluRay or dreaming services🙏🏼Bale was perfect, we need to see more of those Gore scenes in a directors cut. The audience loved it, everyone laughed and had an enjoyable experience. Overall I scored it a 7.1/10
Ragnarok is easily in my top 5 for the MCU. Being Australian and Islander, I think the stylistic turn was softened for me because of how specific the the comedy was for AU and NZ.
Being a comic reader, Winston and Coys “new comic run” analogy resonates with me greatly. But I can absolutely see how the tonal switch could mess with people who are film only fans.
I actually love Love & Thunder more than Ragnarok.
List your top 5
Wow fair enough!
Loving the chemistry, dudes! Feels like old Schmoes!
I 100% agree with Kristian on this one. By no means did I hate this movie, but certain parts definitely irked me the wrong way the majority of which were in the first half. For example the jokes with the hammers where they were creeping into the shots I thought were funny but giving them more character than that I thought was overkill. So happy to see Jane as a real character this movie and you can tell Natalie Portman was trying to be charismatic and it worked! Gorr is the MVP of this movie followed by Thor's arms. Holy shit dude put the dumbbell down a sec.
Thor's daughter at the end is Hemsworth's Real life Daughter, and because of that I dont think we'll see her again, or if we do it will be recasted.
100% agree w you all. The first hour almost lost me even though i laughed with some jokes. Im in on the new thor but Ragnorak was hands down better as it balanced everything almost perfectly.
I agree the movie needed a little more drama, the movie was ok but i needed more drama to get more attached to the movie, i had a shoulder shrugg feeling at the end
I'll answer the question right off the back, Thor: Love and Thunder sits somewhere, comfortably in the worst entries in the MCU.
IT'S BAD... JUST BAD!!!!!
I may be in the minority here, but I'd be perfectly fine if Taika Waititi NEVER directs anything else in the marvel universe.
It’s really bad dude. I have no desire to ever rewatch. Damn near hated the movie and I might be done with Marvel Rn
I tend to think that there should have been more space between the jokes. However, I absolutely loved the scene in the negative zone! It was tense, beautifully shot and had gravitas. The choice that Russell Crow made with that accent was interesting for sure. All in all, there was a ton of potential here for a phenomenal move had a few choices been different. As it is, I really liked it and thought it very good.
I agreed with a lot of points here. I think Ragnarok balanced the comedy and drama almost perfectly. And maybe knowing this is mostly comedy I'll like it better in a rewatch. But I feel like I never felt tense in the moments I should have because they went heavy-handed on the comedy. My other complaint was I thought Jane would be the star of this movie with Thor transitioning out, and instead she got to be his sidekick while he cracked jokes every other minute. Her arc as Thor is one of my favorites in the comics, so I felt shortchanged with what I got. We also didn't get enough of Valkyrie, who stole the show in Ragnarok. If they had to go heavy on the comedy, I would have loved a buddy comedy with Valkyrie and Lady Thor. Having said that, to end on a positive - as Coy likes to do - I loved the drastic difference between Jane as Thor vs Jane as cancer patient. Both her physical posture and the makeup showed such a stark difference between those two modes. I also loved the scenes where everything was black & white *except* the lightning from the weapons. There's definitely stuff that works in this film, I just needed the tone to be more balanced.
I think all of you have great points. However, my main issue with the movie was the lack of Christian Bale. They missed the opportunity to have the best villain in the MCU. I feel like they "Disneyfied" this movie too much. Taika is able to do a dark comedy (Jo Jo Rabbit) without losing depth of the characters. I also know that with Sony having some of the rights, they might not have been able to go where they wanted to with Gorr the God Butcher, but Taika should have used Bale's acting chops more. I loved the new Doctor Strange movie because Wanda was believable as the villain and they allowed Sam Raimi to have his dark humor ala Evil Dead / Drag Me to Hell while still being a Marvel movie. Although I would have preferred more scares because Feige said it would be a horror film. I loved Love & Thunder, but it's definitely not Ragnarok. Like Kristian, I will love it more the second time, but honestly, season 4 of Stranger Things has been the best thing I've seen this year and only Black Phone comes close to it.
Kristian I honestly think you’ll enjoy Guardians 2 on a rewatch more. I’m with you where I feel it’s too joke heavy and I’m with you on this movie too. However I actually have Guardians ranked higher than this movie because guardians did have those serious moments that this moment missed. Yondu dying/his funeral. Quill finding out Ego put the cancer inside his mom. The moment between Gamora and nebula where nebula says that Gamora always had to win and she just wanted a sister. Rocket realizing that he’s going down a Yondu path where he’s treating everyone like dirt and will loose all his friends, etc. obviously characters like Drax and Nebula are the weaker ones as they’re very forced joke heavy and steer away from the first movie. But if you didn’t enjoy Love/Thunder cause there wasn’t enough emotional moment. Then I honestly think it’ll help you appreciate this movie just a little bit more than the last time you watched it.
My mcu bottom 10 ranking just for reference is
25. Age of Ultron
26. IM3
27. Ant-Man & Wasp
28. Incredible Hulk
29. Guardians 2
30. Love/Thunder
31. Dark World
32. IM2
33. Multiverse of Madness
34. Captain Marvel
Phase 4 is very similar to Phase 1 in that they're doing a lot of set up, yes (and if you're knowledgeable enough on the source material you can 100% see exactly what they're building towards); however, this is Phase 4.
The MCU no longer has they luxury the did in Phase 1 where they had to find they're footing; they're 29 (30?) projects in not counting the shows. They should know how to navigate these choppier waters by now. Plus when you factor in the shows, you can see the larger problem that they're just making too much at once/back to back. Hopefully they dial back the output in Phase 5 to better work out the kinks.
or fans can realize that expectations aren't reality and it's not their properties. What Coy said here 34:50 is what I find a lot of fans don't have the self awareness to notice.
@@thetrib1 What you're saying isn't wrong, MoM receiving complaints about there being "not enough cameos" is proof of that, but there are glaring narrative/logical issues both within singular films and the MCU as a whole within this current phase. Even on the show side, for the same issues to be highlighted (namely pacing) across the board is a sign that something on a fundamental storytelling level isn't clicking
I really love discussions you guys have in these spoiler reviews, even if I don't agree with whatever opinion, I can totally understand why each of you feel that way. So much better than readin all the "it's basic,' "it's mid", "it sucks," that's all over the internet. Thanks.
I loved this movie. Saying that, I definitely agree that there could have been a smidge more seriousness. But I still loved it. I also think a reason that Thor is so ridiculous and a joke, is because he's been through so much loss and trauma...that yes he got back in shape, but he's (to me) using the comedy & jokes to push everyone away and trying to keep himself safe from more pain. And that's why to me it took 50 minutes into the movie for Thor to be real. So to me the jokes yes we're a lot but when I look at it like that it makes sense. Thor was using comedy as a defense mechanism.
Great episode guys! Loved the conversation.
Glad you enjoyed the film!
@@TheKristianHarloff btw I really enjoyed that clip of your Flappers standup set. Funny stuff brother! Would love to see more of your standup.
It’s the second best to me. To me they did balance Gorr and Jane with the comedy. I do have some problems with the movie and I like Ragnarok more than Love and Thunder because of some of those problems. I do have to watch love and thunder again though, maybe I’ll get a different perspective, but after seeing it once the serious stuff did hit home and the comedy fit nicely around it.
Maybe need to watch the first two again.
Dude storm breaker being jealous was awesome and the weapons having emotions
I respectfully disagree with Coy's comparison between Phase 1 and 4. The first Ironman film post credit scene set up the formation of the Avengers in the future. Phase 4 lacks that.
The whole phase set up everything for the avengers. Iron mans Nick fury cameo. The destroyer coming to earth and coulson helping. Captain America set up the cube and Hulk is just hulk. But the whole thing was moving in a direction of the Mash-Up. Phase 4 is just “CONSUME OUR CONTENT AND YOU WILL LIKE IT!”
Ragnarok didn't work with a script a lot of the film was improvised.
The screenplay was written by Pearson, Kyle, and Yost
The first time I watched “Love and Thunder” I had the same opinion as Kristian. I thought the 1st 40 to 50min of this movie wasn’t really all that great but I did think the last remaining hour was really good. Upon my 2nd viewing I was able to enjoy the 1st half of the movie a lot more knowing what I was going to get
Basically sound like talking about Star Wars. Some want same old formula because "they're use to to".. like original trilogy.. except its phase 1 to 3.. going keep comparing those phases to phase 4, which looks like theyre basically starting over. I like they are taking risk trying new stuff with adding comedy adventure romantic comedy ti the genre.. if marvel movies stayed like phase 1, comic book movies probably would've died out like westerns. I agree 70-30 should be comedy and serious. I honestly like Thor meet Deadpool but anyways i agree with Winston more i had good time. A lot of scenes with Peter Dinklage, Lena Headley were taking out including dead gods hanging and posted by Gorr the God Butcher including Jane Foster changing into Mighty Thor when she looked at Mormir in the glass. Maybe that couldve made difference but i had fun, kids fighting instead of gods fighting dark creatures was cool. I'm glad Thor not Shakespeare like in comics but I agree he could be more warrior than muscle head.. Jane and Valkrye were 70- 30 where Thor was reversed. Overall i see 50-50 for this film..either way I enjoyed the discussion now let's do all Police Academy..lol
I said this in your other spoiler review and I’ll say it here too. Really had a great time with this one. I do wish it had a better balance though like Ragnarok, like you mentioned.
I definitely did not enjoy 'Thor: Love and Thunder.' It felt like a spoof/parody of the MCU, therefore, I couldn't take it seriously which then meant I didn't care about anything that happened. Going into the movie I was the most excited about Natalie Portman's return BUT, unfortunately, Jane Foster's entire storyline was rushed. Marvel Studios should've either given Natalie Portman her own Mighty Thor movie OR a Jane Foster Disney+ series that was all about her struggling with the cancer and her experience becoming The Mighty Thor. We needed more time with Jane to become more emotionally invested especially since we haven't seen her since 'Thor: The Dark World' from 2013. Because her storyline was so rushed, I felt nothing when she died at the end of the movie.
This movie desperately needed more Gorr. He’s known as the God Butcher but we only see him butcher one god on screen. He wasn’t much of a threat in the movie. Christian Bale gave a great performance but it felt like he was in a completely different movie because the movie's tone was all over the place. It's a mess.
I hated it. This is the 2nd MCU movie I regret seeing.
I do agree Kristian actually, I think this is a big jump from Ragnarok. And also just saying the movie is 70/30 comedy doesn't really matter, it's how does the comedy fit into and work in the story.
Same page!
Glad that I settled for the Imax Laser projector version someone took cam too lmao, I'm nit a torrent cam guy at all, especially for a marvel film...but the tech and cameras are getting wild! You'd swear 75% of it was a Blu ray, a few night time scenes were tough but doable.
All that legal Grey areas aside, the whole idea of Korg telling the story is what I use as the excuse for it being so goofy...but even still it was tough. A really fun watch with some great visuals but it reminded me more of a Disney+ Marvel special. If it was advertised as a straight comedy then it would've been less jarring.
So even tho it was fun and Gor was amazing (despite clearly having a ton cut) visuals were great and all the actors did a good job. I would've loved to see a Gor centric film with the Natalie Portman Cancer aspect cut. It's a cool premise in the comic but I didn't find it really essential for this. Seemed forced.
YUP!
After the success of "Ragnarok" and Taika's other recent successes, I expected him to have way more creative control this time. And ultimately, this movie ended up being exactly what I expected it to be, under those circumstances. While "Ragnarok" still stays at the top of my list, "L&T" is definitely my second favorite Thor film.
To me, the drama and depth was just as present as the ridiculous humor and neither of those aspects took away from either side. I love the movie, overall, but I do love it far more for it's drama. Yet, I enjoy the wild polarization. It does two things, for me: 1) it represents life in its ridiculous absurdity (humor) along with the depths of tragedy and despair (which also gives birth to heroism) and 2) the humorous segments (which were kept pretty separate from the opposite segments) helped balance out the audience's experience with the depths of seriousness the rest of the movie contained. It was somewhat like going through childhood, and then getting smacked in the face with the reality of life and death.
I don't know... it worked big time for me and I highly respect the accomplishment of this movie and that the MCU is going to these extremes in story telling. I really love the MCU existing with stories being told from a different lens. I don't see them as not matching tones. I see them as several tones fitting within the same world. A story is told through the storyteller's lens. Even within ourselves, we experience some days, some experiences, some periods of our lives, rather differently than we do at other times. I don't mind, at all, movies within the same universe having a different tone/lens. I actually really appreciate it and enjoy it. I'd like to think more of us could use a step back and appreciation of alternate perspectives.
I am actually in line with you Kristian. I liked the movie a lot but mainly more for the second half of it. The first half I agree was way overdone on the comedy. My ranking is the same as well. I felt the first Thor movie was better.
Are you guys still doing rewatch series? Its been 3 months. Cheers
I love the first Thor movie it's still the best Thor movie
I rated this 3.4 out of 5 after my 1st Thursday screening. Then went with friends to a Friday IMAX screening and felt better about this movie. Was able to sit back absorb things I missed and enjoy the scenes with the rock music. It's by default the 2nd best Thor movie to me above Thor and Thor Dark World.
I need to rewatch!
I think fans had so much faith in Taika Waititi they didn't think it could do any wrong. People loved Ragnarok, it was such a refreshing change after Dark World that no one anticipated Love and Thunder not being another huge win for Marvel.
I really dug this film. I’m also just happy to see a MCU solo series get past 3 films. Hope for a couple more , but not sure if Waititi should do them. Reminds me of Sam Mendes with Skyfall and Spectre. Maybe should have left it at one film. Also think the Jane/Cancer storyline was just not a good fit for him. My hope is Marvel finds another fresh direction for Thor 5. Go with a different tone.
Happy you enjoyed it!
Love the rewatch idea for Thor Love & Thunder. I Think I need to watch this again. Seem to silly for me but expecting it my make viewing better. Right now my order is
1. Thor Ragnorock
2. Thor
3. Love & Thunder
4. The Dark World.
Thanks Winsten & Coy for your input about the film. Think I am still in the place where Kristian is until I see the movie again. Thanks love the Big Thing so much!!