Why Crossoverless Single Driver Designs Offer Better Sound (Quality vs Quantity in High End Part 3)
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- Опубликовано: 30 сен 2024
- The final video in a 3-part series where we define why quality matters in Audio reproduction. Most High End consumers are being presented with speakers employing multiple drivers and complex crossover designs. It goes to show how far are we deviating from producing optimal sound in favor of cost-cutting, driver array optics. High Performance Audio is different from mass-consumed products and the design approach must reflect a pursuit of authentic sound and highest form of listening pleasure. At SW1X Audio Design, we went back into the yester century and adopted the purist ideas of acoustically loaded, crossoverless single full range driver Horn and Monitor Loudspeaker designs.
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I like what you're doing here, keep going!
Thanks, you too!
@@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac From the 1st note played through MY invented system of power all the way through DAC, turntable, pre, mono amps, interconnects, speaker cables it was SHEER CRYSTAL CLEAR Engagement level JOY to confirm a new emergence of Reproduction far beyond Ultra HIGH END. The Discernable Differences are SOOOO EASILY EXPERIENCED between the talent, limits of Developments, and those that are prisoners to limits of the comparative crumbs they are offered. No overinflated claims ....this DESTROYS ALL of the Uber high end systems I have heard up to near 5 Million. Happy I am intelligent enough to understand and see the audio hustle. What most call intelligibility is a garbled mess by comparison just as one of the many parameters. Many of You people worship at the altar of the bread and circuses you're fed.... The industry needs to suppress real innovation they don't have and are not talented enough to design or their charades are found out.
There are no absolute truths in complex systems. Calling crossovers evil is a belief akin to a religion.
So you think capacitors, resistors or chokes reproduce audio signals without any loss?
@@antonsyd7077 Ah there is the Spanish inquisition
@@D1N02 From the 1st note played through MY invented system of power all the way through DAC, turntable, pre, mono amps, interconnects, speaker cables it was SHEER CRYSTAL CLEAR Engagement level JOY to confirm a new emergence of Reproduction far beyond Ultra HIGH END. The Discernable Differences are SOOOO EASILY EXPERIENCED between the talent, limits of Developments, and those that are prisoners to limits of the comparative crumbs they are offered. No overinflated claims ....this DESTROYS ALL of the Uber high end systems I have heard up to near 5 Million. Happy I am intelligent enough to understand and see the audio hustle. What most call intelligibility is a garbled mess by comparison just as one of the many parameters. Many of You people worship at the altar of the bread and circuses you're fed.... The industry needs to suppress real innovation they don't have and are not talented enough to design or their charades are found out.
@@davidcross890
LOL, it seems that someone has gone off their meds again.
@@bbfoto7248 Do You not REALIZE that not everyone is in comparative challenging circumstances and a limited few if they have the drive, advanced knowledge, resources, and wealth can make REAL what OTHER DREAM OF.
forget about it.............its not a power issue, its a performance issue.......trying to use a 6" cone to produce 5-20khz range is just silly.
Single driver shortcomings........as follows, cone break-up, lack of speed , high distrotion, lack of extension, shrill and harsh high freuquency, uneven dispersion patern, intermodulation distortion from cone movement modulating the highs and many other issues too complex to get into here.
You're obviously right about frequency range. Other than that, you provided no evidence to prove other statements
@@antonsyd7077
He doesn't need to provide evidence. The research, measurements, and listening confirmation have already been long documented and provide all the evidence that is necessary for the other aspects he noted when a loudspeaker system is limited to using a single driver.
The issues, compromises, and limitations are evident in literally thousands of individual drivers specs and measurements that are provided by the manufacturers of the drivers themselves or independent 3rd party testing.
You can't magically eliminate all of the inherent physics and electro-mechanical properties that are involved.
The only segment of audio reproduction where single-driver systems can provide the least potential limitations and/or compromises of full-range, distortion-free reproduction is with single driver headphones, where the SPL, Xmax, IMD, directivity, and other issues are FAR less of an problem due to the physical size of the drive unit and the extreme close proximity of the drive unit to your ears.
Headphones....
@@joejoejoejoejoejoe4391
The small size of the drivers that are used in headphones, as well as their extremely close proximity to our ears, eliminate all of the issues and inherent problems that occur when trying to use a significantly larger single driver in a loudspeaker that has to fill a room with SPLs of at least 85dB @ 2m from ~35Hz to 20kHz. It's a matter of physics.
If we listened to the single driver loudspeakers with them placed within just centimeters from our ears, that would also eliminate the inherent problems and they would sound great.
But we usually listen to loudspeakers at a distance of at least 1m or more, which changes everything.
@@antonsyd7077and this video does?
For years, I listened to classic systems, powerful amplifiers, speakers with crossovers... Now I listen to a 2a3 SE amplifier, direct coupled, meaning no capacitor in the signal path, 99db speakers, single driver. I use TVC for volume control. I have never heard anything better!
And I rarely listen with more than 1W!
Yes, the DAC is R2R with transformers and tubes in the output.
To me, that's the way to f good sound. Of course, analog sources such as turntables and tape recorders are included in the system.
Greeting
Audiophile Junkie has said that Source point Single speakers are awful..... 'Those are actually the worst sounding because they almost always have rolled off top end... Limited bass.. And no ability to play loud without distortion.'
Shit. What now? How do I get rid of all capacitors and inductors and resistors from CD player, amplifier, speakers, streamer,....? I better just go and listen to rock concerts live! But wait...there are capacitors and resistors in electric guitars, and they need amplifier and speaker to work. I'm screwed.
single driver simply can not effectively cover the full audio range. You can't change physics
There are always Trade offs
@@DaleCrommie There doesn't have to be trade offs in any assault on the state of the art. I definitely won't argue preferences but there are reasons why most speaker designers don't use a single driver. There certainly isn't any reason to avoid crossovers anymore. Well designed digital crossovers allow for the amps to deliver full power to the drivers and for the drivers to be perfectly matched, time aligned and phase aligned. And allows the drivers to operate exclusively in their optimum frequency range. Multiple driver operating within their lowest distortion frequencies will be far far more coherent than a single driver operating beyond it's lowest distortion frequency range
Are you talking from experience? I would guess not. You can't change physics but you can play tricks on it. Smaller FR drivers do need clever cabinets for good bass, but I have extensive experience with 10 and 12 inch drivers that produce plentiful bass in simple bass reflex floorstanding boxes. As concerns treble it's not the entire cone area that's required to move at high frequencies. The centre of the driver - with or without whizzer cone - connects directly to the voice coil but is not rigidly attached to the rest of the diaphragm. The calculated flexibility that's built in acts as a mechanical low-pass filter.
@@gaborozorai3714 Experience? Yeah, I've listened to enough single driver speakers to know they can't do decent bass and beam to the point of unusably in the high frequencies and audibly distort in the mid range. If you like that so be it. But you are pitching them as something they are not. There are no tricks that are going to get you true 20hz-20khz extension with full dynamics, low distortion and controlled radiation patterns out of one driver.
The issue of the poor low frequencies isn't just about the driver but its amplification. By the way, not all 2- or 3-way loudspeakers can reproduce the range below 40 or 50 Hz as well
Also, it depends on the source (digital source with DA conversion isn't as capable in that)
Nevertheless, you're right about HF extension. It's definitely impossible to make it nearly flat up to 20kHz. However, those frequencies can still be reproduced (in FR driver with a powerful magnet), but with a lower efficiency, which isn't critical either
My speakers sound better than yours because i like them . 😎
Big thanks for supporting the minimalistic approach
For those who wants to know more truth about audio or find some great ideas for old-school DIY audio stuff, I sincerely recommend this channel as well (trust me, there are tons of valuable information)
www.youtube.com/@realworldaudio
there exists NO SINGLE DRIVER which can produce music well ... if you think otherwise .... 😂
Best is two or 3 drivers and simple crossover like a cap to protect the twitter
simple X-over is a good starting point. the best X-over is no X-over whether active or passive. This is the main reason as why people prefer headphones over speakers
@@sw1xaudiodesign😂
@@sw1xaudiodesignis more the room, which headphones don't really have.
I EQ my headphones because they don't do what I want stock.
I also wonder on the fr of full range designs as they have many shortcomings . I've heard some reasonable ones but not any that are as complete as other "regular" speakers.
Multi-amplification/low level, active, crossovers, can be vastly superior to single driver systems or high level, passive crossover, multi driver system.
Agree that; been using 12” FRD in large bass reflex cabs c1955 for a year now wont go back!
I have two drivers and six crossovers??? What do I do to get ride of them?
Yes ✨️👍
total bullshit . this guy doesn't have the basic of electronic engineering. dont listen to him . he said you need only 3 w to listen to music. while if you have 1 w at 1m meter , with a dynamic range of just 12 db , you need at least 32 w with 87 db speakers.
Here's a complete system, playing at only at 3W 🙂
ruclips.net/video/7bJ-V8OncQ8/видео.html
i am glad i spent more time learning about audio before spending my money on products.
now that i know the sound that i have always sought after comes from nos digital filterless DACs, low powered valve amplifiers with quality components, and high sensitivity speakers.. i can finally.. well.. start saving my money lol to eventually buy one of your systems.
there is a north american distributor about 4 hours from where i live. i hope to one day schedule a listening session to demo the sw1x products he has. hopefully by the time i go, he has more than just the DAC IlI. i think he now has the pre amp IlI as well. i would love to hear the CDT V, but at the very least the IlI, one of your amps and the alnico speakers.
Thank you for showing your interest. Where about are you located? Contact us and we can help you find the right dealer sw1xad.co.uk/contact-us/
What is MSRP for your speaker, thanks
@@babydove
We offer a range of speakers : sw1xad.co.uk/product_cat/loudspeakers/
Please contact sales here sw1xad.co.uk/contact-us/
@@babydoveprobably $1000/kg lol
Cube Audio Nenuphar is the best speaker I have heard. I drive them with single ended monoblocks of 6-8 W. Nothing compares.
Agree
Oh the Nenuphar are super transparent.
Everything is about implementation to try and mitigate the negative aspects of the application. A well designed full range unit has advantages, but inevitably some disadvantages too. Which approach is "best" depends somewhat on the objectives and circumstances. Thunderous bass and "punch", or "slam" won't be so well served subjeively by a small full range unit,even with transmission line tuning for the low end.A multi way design utilising disparate drivers of differing polar distribution, all in differing locations and sonic flavours won't be able to match the coherency. One can work around certain aspects ,but will always have some discontinuity from deliberately separating out the signal (which is not the case with a microphone when capturing the signal) and then trying to stitch it all back together again in a coherent fashion.
Unless there is a complementary acoustic loading that harmonises the "weaknesses" of a single full range driver
Sure there are numerous configurations that could be deployed in order to attainba desired objective with respect to the delivered subjective performance. Every route in existence for loudspeaker design has pros and cobs though. Reducing the impact of the drawbacks for a given application is key irrespective of the chosen path. I personally adhere to full range designs or wide band drivers utilising first order acoustic crossover slopes, but there will be relative drawbacks with respect to frequency extremes in the full range option,coupled to somewhat limited SPL levels when compared with many of the multiway designs.As a "purist" I'm with you,but it's unrealistic to claim that any application is without compromise. It's the reality of engineering.
in acoustics everything is a compromise- it is just a question to what extent the compromise is
@@sw1xaudiodesign And which ones the designer and/or user is most happy to accept.
Active is best imo. Separate crossover, amps etc
the best X-over is no X-over whether active or passive. This is the main reason as why people prefer headphones over speakers
Yeah, at this price point a digital cross over starts being a better option. Technically doesn't add anything to the signal and with multiple drivers you cover properly the whole range
Agree with you, Crossover is a kind of appendix , it is obsolete for humanity and many times it endangers the owner’s
health.
They will work very well with some types of music where phase coherence is most important to the buyer and lack verve with other types of demanding music, especially at higher levels where they often break up. i.e. Simple speakers for simple music.
Most of the comments from these people posting apparently own comparatively low performance systems and have very myopic and stunted views and apparently very limited knowledge on the subject matter.
don’t blame the consumer, blame the mainstream marketing and academic path in audio. “two way speakers were easier for us to fool the microphone with so now you buy them!”.
@@BlumensteinAudio an interesting summation. Do you mean blame the controlling cartel?
@@davidcross890 Confirmation bias /cellar tongue is powerful enough on it’s own. Doesn’t need to be a whole assed cartel. lol.
@@BlumensteinAudio do you actually believe there is not an establishment group controlling activities in Audio?
single driver speakers , paper cone with ultra thin copper foil in transmission line boxes at 1 or 2 ohms are the future of sound standard. and those goes lower under 20hz and way above 20k hz. the sound is more then amazing with carefully made germanium amp. sound is very fast 1watt\7 meters. this is not BS.those hand made speakers exists and goes above 120 db of sensitivity.
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@@flertx to su njegovi drajveri, da.ja ne mogu vise da vodim tzv. rat sa ljudima koji slusaju nesto sasvim drugo. imam kuci njegove osmice u transmisionoj kutiji. guram ih sa germanijum pojacalom na 2 oma. imam i druga pojacala koja isto lepo rade sa ovim zvucnicima , ali se germanijum pokazao najvise hifi u tonu. stvarno mi je muka da ljudima vise objasnjavam dakod njegovog niskoomskog patenta nema distorzije, jer se ameri primaju na tu pricu da ako spustas rad zvucnika sto nize u omazi da ces da imas vise distorzije u pojacanju. to nije tacno uopste. dragicev patent je malte ne perfektan u tom pravcu. prvo sto je odradio kada ga je pravio, otklonio je distorziju, zbog visoke osetljivosti zvucnika, i samim tim ubrzao zvuk, putovanje zvuka kroz prostor. i nakon toga dobija se neverovatno dobar kvalitet celog opsega koji cujemo. njegova merenja su to i dokazala, a i bogami ja sam cuo vise verzija njegovih zvucnika u razlicitim kutijama i na panelima.