Frameless Backpacking - Are you Ready?
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- Опубликовано: 9 июл 2024
- Frameless Backpacks!
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Развлечения
If I was 30 years younger I’d think about giving it a chance, but I hate the sensation of having my backpack pressing my sweat soaked shirt against my back.
Last year I bought an arc haul and I’m very happy with it. My shoulders don’t get sore no matter how much weight I carry.
I went frameless backpacking in grade school, highschool, and college. 40 pound base weight full of textbooks. 🤓
Same here! It's only gotten worse!
🤣 I love it! On this thread, i was thinking about the whole smaht bottle concept these days and remembering that when I started backpacking in the late 80s in the so cal desert with the sierra club, people used glucose bottles as water bottles from the medical industry. They were square shaped like a pedialyte bottle and very durable and leakproof. The square shaped fit into peoples packs at the time and they were lightweight (for the time😁). Good stuff as always Frozen. NQU
I popped my frameless cherry and not looking back. Base weight was 11 lbs and now under 10 lbs thanks to the pack. I also like the freedom of movement as part of the “comfort” factor. Started going with a tarp and that’s been a game changer for weight and space saving. Summer quilt plus bug bivy and I’m good to go. I feel like a new man with my frameless pack. With water and good, I’m comfortably under 20 lbs.
Love the shirt!
Great idea for a video, Jason. I suspect quite a few folks go with frameless packs only because that’s what all the cool content creators do. I use a frameless only when the load is super light… like day pack load territory.
Very cool frameless backpacking, I love the color so much 😍
Fanny packs are the best option for frameless backpacks!! Great video 😊😊!
Thanks Frozen. I went frameless with a hip belt many times, but did frameless and hipbeltless for the first time a couple of weeks ago. Loved it with extremely low base weight only.
For sure!
I went without a frame and hip belt for OR on my PCT thru. This was the last state for me so I was in great shape. Also I dropped anything I wouldn't absolutely need (but not stupid light). I think my BW was around 7lbs. I loved the way my backpack rode (Atompacks Atom+40). Never hurt or was uncomfortable. After my return I gifted myself a minimalist pack, an Atom30 (14.4oz ,Robic). And then I clip my fanny pack to it if I want some weight transfer or less bouncyness for when I am jogging. It should be great for alpine hut hiking or the Camino de Santiago or weekenders or summer.
Thanks for the video
Cool video, I the only thing I don’t get is how through hikers can use frame less packs with a week of food or bear can or in the desert with a bunch of water. Do they just suffer through those situations to be more comfortable on the other parts of the hike?
I think it really depends on your mileage. If you are doing 17-20 a day then you are going into town every 3-4 days, at least on the AT. PCT I hear is similar in at least some sections and I plan on doing that next year depending on permits.
I'm a 53-year old hiker Backpacker I went ultralight everything spent a little money but I'm so much happier on trail with a 7 lb base weight including A Chair for My middle-aged man bones good video good advice I agree if your gear is dialed in then it's the way to go the changed my whole backpacking experience
I hope to one day be that low in my baseweight. I have extra camera gear for my trips so may never be there.
I used a frameless curve 40 on my AT thru and now use frameless packs I make myself. They can definitely be the way to go if you have your kit dialed.
I do think often the weight savings for a frameless pack is a lot less than a pound. 2 frame stays and a thin piece of foam isn't going to weigh more than 6-8 oz. I think for most people, if they're only buying one pack, a UL framed pack with removable stays is probably the best option.
I agree with this. The benefits of going frameless are less about weight saving imo.
The main reason to go frameless is the COST as a frameless backpack tends to much cheaper than an UL backpack.
Secondly, when I'm traveling it's much easier to take a frameless backpack to fit in just about any piece of luggage and slip it into and out of that piece of luggage. Even if I'm one bag travelling and just using a travel backpack I always carry a frameless pack as a daypack once I arrive at me destination.
I got a DCF poncho tarp a few weeks ago from GearSwifts that let me drop my rain jacket and get my base weight down to 6.6 in most 3 season applications. Perfect for a frameless pack.
20 years frameless. I did about 3/4 Of the AT (section hikes) that way, including section hikes of over 250 miles. I hammock, but carry a torso length 1/2" closed cell foam pad which I roll into a vertical cylinder int and which I stuff all my gear. This stiffens the entire pack and allows a small amount of weight to be transferred to the hip - er, waist belt. It also allows me to use shelters in horrendous weather. I have carried up to 32 pounds without undue discomfort on longer sections of up to 7 days between convenient reapply points.
I usually carry a four pound backpacking guitar.
I'm registered for a March start thruhike this year, and will be picking up my guitar in Damascus when I send some warmer clothing home.
That's very impressive!
I find it more a function of total weight and what shape I am in. 3 nights in Shining rock with a bear can in the summer : my Liteaf 35 fast track. 6 days in the winter, the Arc. I actually went there and back. Old Campmor aluminum external frame to monster framed Gregory to Golite Breeze with ground tarp and quilt. I thought the backpacking gods had bestowed their grace. Yeah I did wish for a bit of belt on the Breeze. On to a MLD prophet, then to Hammocking and now back to full suspension LiteAf 46; which is where I'll stay for the foreseeable future. I generally use an integrated fanny (misnomer) pack with the hip belt. Currently the zpacks front utility pocket works also with the LiteAF; same buckle. Even if going completely frameless the availability of and add on hip belt is beneficial.
I went frameless and the only time I go back to a frame is for heavy winter trips.
I have a couple inexpensive frameless packs. The biggest issue I have with them is back sweat. Without the ventilation, I get a heat/sweat rash on my back.
Great points ! I went frameless and made it work, but sure would have been easier to lighten up first. I now have a framed pack too, just for longer trips (NPT !). Both from LiteAF
I got a pinched nerve from carrying a heavy packpack to and from work. It's taken months to heal.
That's the worst!
I am hiking the foothills trail in May and my base weight is about 11. But I'm using a frame because I just feel for a long trail...probably 7 days because it's a group of ladies out for the beauty over the hike 🤭...it would be better to distribute the weight. But a weekend or 4 day het away, I'm frameless. I learned from you and your AT hike and hikes after on how to lower base weight and which pack to take. U rock! Ty for ur videos!
I love my frameless packs! Starting the AT next week with my Pa’lante Desert. Great info though and spot on. I’m starting a little heavy for me but I know I’ll get it down in a week or so. Too much food..!
I went frameless a couple years ago. Switched from a Gregory pack that weighed almost 4lbs to a Granite Gear Virga that weighs just over a pound. I tried the gossamer gear kumo last year and I like it, but it's just a little too small and now my daughter has claimed that one. Thinking I'm going to try the G4-20 from gossamer gear this year for spring/ summer and keep my Virga for winter.
For reference my summer base weight is around 10lbs and I get up to about 13-14 in the winter. I use a sit pad to add a little rigidity to my frameless packs and get a little weight transfer to my hips.
I can go frameless with a summer day pack but I still like a hip belt with it. When it comes to my backpack I need a frame and hipbelt. I'm not comfortable with all the weight on my shoulders. And that is with a ten pound base weight. Maybe if I was younger or taller. I'm a few hairs under five foot and in my late 50s.
About two weeks ago I just got my first frameless pack. It has the vest style straps with help distribute the weight. Still trying to decide if I like it more than my arc blast.
Just a tip and maybe you know already. You can make your Arc Blast frameless. Take the stays out and slide the tops and bottom aluminum frames out.
Hi Jason I like both types but as I am getting older at 63 It depends on the hike how many days I am out and the distance. It all comes down to personal preference though.
You left out my favorite pro. Because of the simplicity, they are usually much cheaper!!
Very true.
I recently took the plunge into frameless backpacking. I already have a 55l arc blast so I went with a 30l curve to really fill that light and small niche. Base weight squeaking in at just under 10 pounds. All together I had about 18 pounds and it went great. I do have the padded hipbelt. I'm debating if I want to try to fit 4 days of food in it for the Loyalsock Trail this week or just take the balst. Decisions haha
Remember you can take the frame out of the arc haul for larger trips. But that thing is so light anyway.
I swapped over to a framelss pack with a base around 13 lbs (while thru-hiking becasue my arc haul sh*t the bed)- and the only thing I use the waist strap for is to keep the bag from bouncing around when moving fast or to "adjust the weight" kinda like a load lifter. When switching to a frameless pack, I would look at the shoulder straps and see if it has thicker/firmer ones to make the carry the load more comfortable- also look at the webbing on the shoulder straps- you want a wider webbing to disperse the weight- a lot of SUL packs will have narrow/thinner webbing to cut weight, but it will concentrate the load and compress/flatter you shoulder strap foam and start to dig. I think you're probably right about being sub 10 lbs as a general recommendation to switch, but hey, we're just walking here so lets not get to rigid...if you want to try it, just send it!
I had that bouncing issue before I raised my pack up on my shoulders.
Off topic. But have you thought about updating your "beginner to hammock camping" series? I see it's 4 years old and since your AT thru hike I'm sure you've really dialed things in. I just finished Old Loggers Path 2/16/23. Very cold nights haha. Best to you and your family!
I've seen this comment a few times now and based on user feedback I agree that it's probably worth a revisit. I do still need to update my beginner backpacking series that I started again last year but ran out of time.
If I'm carrying more than 28 liters or 10 pounds, I'll use a framed pack.
I've been considering a frameless pack. But, my ArcBlast comes in around 22 ounces with all the add-ons. I'm not going to save an appreciable amount of weight by switching. The idea of not having a belt digging into my waist is appealing. However, not having the trampoline mesh on the back for ventilation would suck. I'm a sweater, and the thought of my whole pack against my back sounds uncomfortable. IDK, I'll probably end up getting one at some point just because I like to try new gear. One thing I do know, it seems people who have that light base weight (I can get to around 11 lbs in warm weather, I'm a hammock camper) all seem to convert at some point and love it.
I get it. I have an Arc Hault myself and loved that system. I sweat about the same with a frameless pack without a hipbelt.
Winter - Framed Waymark Thru 40L Summer - Frameless Waymark Thru 40L
Very well explained.
I almost exlusively use frameless now--EXCEPT in the winter when my load is much heavier. But heading out this weekend and it'll be in the 50's so I'll probably go frameless.
I'm thinking of picking up a Mountain Smith Zerk 40. I've seen a lot of good reviews on this pack, it is light, and does have the built in back pad similar to a sit pad. I recently purchased a 17 ounce tent and a good sleep pad so I'm thinking frameless for the summer, and my pack with a frame for the cooler weather I'll probably stick with my heavier hammock gear in. I'm interested to know if you have any experience with the Zerk 40.
My buddy Murica has the Zerk and he loves it.
My frameless pack is the Waymark EVLV 38L. I've been playing around with using things to create structure on the inside of the pack, including using pack-shaped DCF pods from HMG, folding a 1/8" Gossamer gear CCF pad to the width of the pack, and similar strategies that all "seem" to work. My question is, how do I REALLY know it's working? I know "when my pack carries well" is the end game, but what other indicators are there that the pack has enough of the right structure to it?
Sore shoulders on a 4 day stretch were an immediate indication that I needed my hipbelt for me. I was thru hiking the AT and just got off a zero with my now wife, and within 8 miles I was dying.
I have a brand new backpack coming in tomorrow
And it's not for backpacking
Technically this is a photography backpacking bag
From Shimoda
It's the action X50L with the large insert I had to purchase the bag and the inserts separately at the same time though because the action 50 l only had the small insert and the action 70 l had the extra large insert
But all I needed was the 50L and the large insert since my largest lens is the tameron 100-500mm that will fit just right
Cool man! Hope all is well dude!
Great video idea and well thought out! I absolutely HATE hipbelts - it was my biggest motivator getting to UL setup and going frameless.
Heck yea man
I tend to go places that need a bear can. Frameless doesn’t make sense when carrying a bear can
Works fine for me, and I’ve even carried a Bearikade Expedition. The trick is having at least two sections of Zrest pad folded, positioned between the bear canister and your spine.
only thing holding me up is needing a cpap and batteries are heavy
What if you broke the frame and had to go frameless prematurely 🤣
Next. A strapless bag!
Nah next is a single strap, probably already exists to be honest.
I heard Ray Jardine has already done it.
Of course...
Nope. Pass. Glad there's a lot of options for everyone though.
You asked how do folks feel about frame versus frameless seemed the question. Am a 71, female, 116 lbs, 5'6". Veteran of many decades of camping. Many. The stuff we bought when I was a kid from the Scout Shop were heavy and for men. At least now, there are more egalitarian options......
Have been schlepping a 60 L Gregory frame with a "brain" for many years with hiking poles; I also wear a fanny pack. I also have a Mtn Laurel, 38 L frameLESS pack. I am torn and have spent many hours watching u tube videos on the matter.Some good; most horrible.
So: verdict? not easy to answer, sorry. Seem to cram more into framed pack, I do use a lot more compression sacks tho. I was willing to try out the frameLESS pack ins and up coming many days trip.
I cannot seem to get my required Bear Vault into frameless; have better luck with framed.
About two years ago, I fell hard literally on my arse, compression -fracturing one vertebra: I spent some time in a hospital and learning how to walk. Thus, between my ortho surgeon and my PT guy; I can walk but in a lotta pain. Could be worse, right? I am now only carrying 35 lbs. max. I would prefer to lower all BW, as too much wt really hurts.
Up-priced the "Big Three" to UL (pricey) and hope the frameLESS can help mitigate any weight issues. Eliminating a lb of frame is fine with me, as I will, like everyone, try to shed grams any way I can.
Decided to NOT take frameLESS on upcoming hike, as I have packed, massed, and trained for the weight in Framed Pack. However, when I have some ordered lighter wt camping items, I plan to go frameless in the future; seems like a logical step--reducing weight.
Upon my return from the High Country in Aug of 23, I will reevaluate frameless pack for up-coming Smokey Mtn. foray..
Right now, I am frankly scared of a frameless option
Curious to see what shoes you are wearing 🤔
I've moved away from Altra Lone Peaks and I am currently in the testing phases of Topo Athletics Terraventure 3's
I think talking base weight with frameless packs is less important than total trip weight, including food and water, for comfort.
My experience is that most frameless packs will be comfortable for long distance backpacking at up to 18 lbs total weight.
However, I’ve also found shifting water weight to the shoulders and having wider shoulder straps can increase this comfort limit.
My Nashville Cutaway pack is comfortable to 22 lbs while I’ve carried 28 comfortably in my Alien Novum 40 (super wide shoulder straps). On both these packs, I have four panels of Zrest pad between the pack and my pack for support and padding, as well as the water weight riding in the shoulder strap pockets.
Having said this, don’t throw away that framed pack. There have been many times when I’ve found myself putting all my gear, food, and water, pre-trip, into one of my frameless packs and then my Gossamer Gear Mariposa and deciding that the Mariposa just feel better.
I agree with Frozen, though. Given the chance, I’d rather have my hips free and carry that simple frameless ruck.
Mid 50s, 6-foot, 190 lbs, 15-20 mile days for reference.
I see some older people leaning towards frameless being for younger folks. Personally, I find my old hips get a lot more stiff when locked under the pinch of a hip belt.
In terms of the sweaty back, just take four sections of Zrest pad and fold it into a single, stiff, narrow section. That gives a lot of padding, limits contact to the spine so the rest of your back can breath, and the stiff column of pad makes for a great pseudo-frame.
Interesting reading these comments and wondering what age has to do with using a frameless pack or not. I thru-hiked the PCT with frameless packs in 2018 when I was 58. Both weigh 10oz. One was a bit larger than the other for the bear can through the Sierra. I hiked the JMT last year, along with three other shorter trips during the year at 62. My Thermarest Neoair XLite gives good structure to the pack. After resupply, in Muir Trail Ranch, my pack weighed about 30lb with a half-liter of water. That's a bit heavier than I'd like to carry, but really isn't hard to deal with. Thanks for your thoughts on this subject.
That's very good to hear as I am leaning more toward having a frame to start with for the extra water carry and the Sierra. It will come down to weather as it always does.
Let me help
As people age their physical abilities diminish. They’re not as flexible or nimble as they once were, they don’t have as much stamina as they once had, and they have to be careful how much they stress their muscles and joints.
I use hiking poles to lessen stress on my knees and I use a framed pack with a hip belt to lessen stress on my shoulders and back.
In my teens and twenties I didn’t use a sleeping pad or hiking poles. Now that I’m 59 my age is a factor in the gear choices I make.
How does an XLite become structure in a pack? Do you leave it partially inflated?
@@andymytys I don't leave it partially inflated, I squeeze the air out. I fold it in half lengthwise, then in thirds, then in half again. That makes a rectangle about 10.5"x14" that I slide against the back of the pack (the part that rests against my back).
@@danielbumbalo8706 I'm sorry. I'll be 63 in a couple of months and I still don't follow that logic.