Built my 427 but based it on the Dart block. Used same heads but the Eddy Super Victor. Compression 10.3 and a Lunati hyd. roller with 241/249 and .600 lift. 6 years ago put on the Price Motorsport dual Holley inline intake with a pair of custom Holleys flowing 660 cfm. Still going strong after 11 years now and it is in my 1985 Mustang LX coupe! 480 HP at the wheels with 505 Torque all in by 5700 RPM.
If you notice on the graph the long stroke motor is already making over 500hp at only 4000 rpm so and like 562 at 5252 ( where HP cross over and read the same) . My point is to only gain another 50 Hp by revving it to sky high another 1800 to 7000 rpm doesn’t really make a lot of sense pretty indicative of the combo being a bit overkill. When the torque is that flat you can pretty much shift at 5500-6000 and it will run about the same ET and be way easier on parts. I built a much milder 427 that I only rev to 5600-5800 But it makes about 520 Hp but it has enough torque at 2100 rpm to cruise with a 5 speed manual Tremec in overdrive at 70 mph. In a 2350 pound cobra replica I wanted a motor that felt very close to a factory 427FE with torque everywhere. I’m very happy with it! The segment talked about for shoulder to cam clearance but never showed any of it…I’ll bet they had issues!! I had to relieve the shoulders of all my rods to clear the cam lobes and even rr ground the cam to a smaller base circle. Btw stroker 427’s like tighter lobe separation and more cam advance. Why close the intake so late and give up all the stroke just to gain RPM?
Ran a 4.17 stroke x 4.03 bore windsor for years from 2005-2014. Made as much as 545 rwhp on a dynojet chassis dyno(with a 5spd tremec) and ran as fast as 10.15 @ 132 MPH in a 3150 lb foxbody coupe with a C4 trans,pump 92-93 octane. All off the shelf parts. AFR 225 heads,Super Victor Edelbrock intake,Herbert mild solid roller cam,1 3/4 headers 3" X pipe and MAC 3" catback with tailpipes.
I'm always bummed, and surprised actually, that basically none of the engine builders on RUclips give us viewers maybe 8-10 seconds of idle time. Man, us street guys love that! We want to hear what kind of chop the builds make and how they would fare in the real world. Vacuum too. What stall you'd need on an auto, and that they'd reliably idle with a stick where it's a PIA to keep blipping the throttle while holding the brake and clutch. I'm thinking more about carved applications here.
With the 950cfm carb, they saw best performance at 30 degrees of timing, then a bit of a fall-off when they advanced to 32 degrees. Why did you not simply revert back to 30 degrees of timing, then put the big 1150cfm dominator carb on to see if that made a difference? Are you going to leave this engine at 32 degrees of timing, knowing that it does better at 30?
Yes, I wondered the same thing about the timing. Also, why not dykem and exhibit the pattern the roller rockers are leaving on end of valve tip , aka the 'walk'. Save those valve guides, side load wears out guides ! Maybe that was done throughout all 16 with a push rod length checker before they ordered the set of pushrods. Great video BTW.
@@Lifeistooshort67 Ole No prep there just tends to make ignorant statements on things he knows nothing about to be annoying. Just last week he was telling me how Chrysler engines were really cheap to build in the seventies. Being that I was a Ford and Chrysler supporter in the 70s and understood the lack of aftermarket support for them compared to GM it was a little annoying. I'm sure he's about 16 and is pretty sure he knows just about everything. Ignore him and maybe he'll find a squirrel to entertain him out his window.
They also didn't say that they DIDN'T set the timing back to 30° I'd be pretty sure they actually did, that carb shouldn't have added horsepower, to me, it sounded like they were trying it to dispell the myth that an oversized carb would flood the engine.
Nothing is ever mentioned about it, but ARP has filled an area that was totally lacking. The new items they design are clever and them rolling the threads onto the fasteners instead of single point chasing them is a major plus. I hope they never run out of ideas!
Not much. Back in the 90s, the 427 stroker was a lousy engine. The earlier versions were just a marketing gimmick capitalizing on the 427 name, but they had poor rod angles due to being so overstroked. They suffered from piston slap, rod failures and short lifespans. Current versions of the "427 stroker/W/R" don't have a single Ford part on them. They're just parts bin race engines. Nothing wrong with that, but can't be called a "Ford 427" with a straight face, IMHO.
Learn something new everyday. Back in the day just torquing fasteners to proper spec was considered good enough. Now you must measure bolt stretch in some extreme applications. Cool!
My mom bought 351w equipped Mustang in ‘69. I got to drive it as a teen, delivering fried chicken around Marina del Rey, CA. Great tips for very quick deliveries.
I had bought a 69 351w, $500.00 used, short story I got it rebuilt to a 418ci all high performance, choppy Comp Cam, roller rockers victor junior heads, highrise intake manifold, 850 carb, it was getting about 550hp, on pump gas in a 65 coup Mustang. I sold it though. I miss it. The cost was about $10,000.00 for all the rebuild including magnifluxed and balance. It wouldn't take a 427 kit, I got it maxed out for what it was able to.
@ 6:06 in...I am busting at the ears man...I can't wait to see what that baby puts out...trick everything...that crank...H beam rods...spec pistons...I knew a guy from Canada...had his own shop...he spent a lot of cash on a Teflon button 350, I know Earning had some great parts in the engine...dang...A Vegas transplant & he was an HONORABLE MAN...I MUST ADD...GOOD GUY...HE TOWED HIS EL CAMINO TO LAUGHLIN FOR THE STREET CAR SHOW...THEY HAD BURN OUT CONTESTS...(I honestly don't know if he broke that engine in...) BUT ON BURN OUT NIGHT...HE GOT ON IT...ONE IF THE PISTONS FRIED...Back to trailer & home...Sad for him...after I lost track because I wasn't in area any longer...wah...
🤠 *You 2 Guys Are Outstanding, And A Great Example Of Methodical & Thorough Working Dream T.E.A.M.= Togetherness, Each Accomplish More 2 Geter Done, Having Fun* 😎
My buddy is getting ready to build us a Windsor. We're going .60 over bore and he's gonna build the internals to be ready for a nitrous plate down the road. For now, we're gonna be running a Holley Sniper EFI setup. This will be taking place of my factory 351M-2bbl which is currently pulling 9mpg at best in our '79F-150.
The Championship Cobra was the small block Cobra that still used the Triumph front suspension and Jag E- type rear suspension that came on all the original unchanged small Cobras. The big block Cobras had an overgrown body with completely different chassis and suspension, brakes steering, etc. etc. But the spelling of Cobra was still original.
The 289's spinning to 8K is what won all the championships in the cobras and daytona coupes. Loved this build- great job. Never discussed what the maximun safe RPM was.
It was mentioned that the 427-powered Cobras won the GT Championship. Actually it was the 289-powered Cobras, primarily Daytona's, that won the FIA World GT Championship. The 427FE won in NASCAR, NHRA, SCCA A-Production (Cobra Roadsters), and FIA Prototype racing (Ford GT Mk II and Mk IV), winning LeMans and many other races.
Yep. The 427 Cobra race effort was essentially abandoned by Shelby because the shop couldn't keep up with the Mustang, GT-40 and other projects. Shelby was stretched too thin, and the 427 Cobras were demanding when it came to chassis tuning and setup.
@@randomologist77 A friend who worked for Shelby on the race team said that Ford ordered the Daytona's retired to concentrate on the GT-40's. He also said that Ford insisted on the switch to the 427FE in the GT's so they could sell more Galaxies and Country Squires with big blocks. Apparently Shelby, and many of his guys, felt the small block had plenty of potential left and there was no need to switch to the big/heavy engines. In fact, the GT-40 initially used the OHV Ford Indy 256 cu in/375 hp OHV engine. Ford created DOHC heads for the Indy V-8 and got about 425 hp out of it. Parnelli Jones had a 5.0 liter version of the DOHC Indy engine (in a Lola T-70) with maybe 500 hp. And, later on, John Wyer's Gulf team used the small block (302) with Gurney-Weslake heads to win LeMans twice ('68 & '69). It looks like Shelby was right that the small blocks still had more potential. Since then, we've seen the small blocks punched out to as much as 427 cubic inches.
@@randomologist77 Couldn't find your other reply about the 427 FE, so here's my answer. I should have said Ford wanted to sell FE engines in station wagons, coupes and sedans. Specifically 390's and 428's, not the race oriented, and expensive, 427's. Salesman were supposed to tell Joe Public, "why that 390 in the Country Squire is (virtually) the same engine that just won at Daytona (or LeMans)." Same with the 426 cubic inch so-called "428." It was given that name so people wouldn't try to race it (most race classes were limited to a max of 427 cubes). Then eventually, Ford started offering racing versions of the supposedly non-racing 428 (CJ and SCJ). Anyway, "Race on Sunday, sell on Monday" always depended on selling cars with the same brand or model name, not with the actual same equipment.
@@michaeldelaney7271 I deleted the response because there's just a lot of ground covered. The 428 (4.132 x 3.980) is technically 427ci (426.96ish), the 427 FE (4.233 x 3.784) is technically 426ci, but Ford allowed some finish hone wiggle room in there to get the 427 to "427." Ford made a concerted effort to market the 428 with special drag pack edition Mustangs with the CJ so the idea they didn't want it to be raced seems suspect. The 428 was just inferior to the 427 in race applications as it was a purpose built street engine, not a purpose built race engine like the 427 that was unsuitable for typical production car use. The only reason the 428 even came into being was the 390 being outmatched by upcoming and recently released competitor street engines from GM and Mopar like the the 440 and the L36 427s. While Ford no doubt wanted to use the 427 FE's potential victories for propaganda's sake, they were looking to win first and the 289 wasn't a winner and probably wasn't going to be a winner at Le Mans. Ford would have been happy to tell Joe Public their 289 engine was the one that won at Le Mans if it came down to it. Also, the small blocks had a long future ahead while FE engines were already in their swan song stage with the 385 series in development. The 289 was overmatched and unreliable at the power levels the GT40 needed to achieve to win at Le Mans. The 255ci Indy V8 was an incredibly exotic and wild engine. Custom aluminum block, DOHC, 4 valves per cylinder, fuel injection, gear drive timing, 12.5:1 CR and unusable below 6,000rpm with an 8,300rpm redline. The 255 still made 60hp less than the intentionally rpm restricted 427 in the GT40s and the 255 was only designed to run 3hrs, not 24hrs. Even if they wanted to use it, Ford didn't have time to devote to a build program for the Indy engine for Le Mans and it was not an engine they could market as it had nothing in common with the production engines. Also, from my understanding, the drivers made the call to go with the 427 after it proved Ford's point of view by blowing track records out of the water. It was just a no brainer. The 427 was more powerful, more reliable and more forgiving with an ability to pull well down under 2,000rpm. Shelby wanted lighter weights and after the successes of the 427 were proven again, Shelby begged (and was denied) the 427 for the Mustangs, instead getting the 428 as 427 production couldn't be ramped up even if Ford wanted to do it.
@@randomologist77 I'm sorry about getting mixed up on the FE's various displacements. "427's" are actually 426 cu. in. and "428's" are actually 427 cu. in. I had always heard that Ford absolutely did not want to call one of their engines a "426" as that was a famous MoPar Max Wedge and Hemi designation.
I love the videos, I really wish I knew more about intake centerline, and vacuum readings since I grew up in an era of fuel injection finding good carburetor tuning is really difficult
Wow.... taking a 351w to 7000rpm. The last time I ran a 351w I had all I could do to get her up to 5500...and she probably stopped making power before 5500. I did manage to squeeze 322hp out of her,She was out of breath around 4700. Back then there were no aluminium heads etc for the 351w and add to that I really didn't have the know -how to really understand what I was doing. She still ran very good,Spanked a few other cars around,But she didn't have the power like your engine Over 600hp!!! It just wasn't possible for most of us..you want more RPMs you had to consider moving up to a 351C or really do some wizardry on a 390,428 or a 429... skills and money which I didn't possess
It's impressive that the aftermarket took the Windsor head and modified it to the point that 500+ HP engines are possible. I wonder why Ford couldn't design a decent Windsor head from the beginning?
yes it will run on pump gas but that set up would do so much better on racing fuel . put 110 to 120 octane thru the intake and set it to 30 degrees that would let it will lift the front end on any old ford it would also make the engine a lot happier. they were made to run on high octane back in the day and even the aftermarket blocks love the high octane juice.
That's all nice, but in my experience with a 2 bolt main block and less stroke at just 4" (408), I had some pretty signicficant amount of cap walk and fretting of the mating surfaces. That was with the external 28oz imbalance crank that was balanced to the rotating assy. too. This was 6K rev limited and used for a road race application so lots of extended RPM times. This is a lot of weight and a BIG arm swinging around to try to control with cast iron 2 bolt mains. It might be OK for limited street use and the occational rip down the dragstrip, but not the best idea for a race application or high RPM with extended times. OK for budget street stuff, though.
I built a Windsor 351 stroke to 427 made 690 horsepower. Put this in a square body Mustang.Best best was was 9.4sec at 144 mph. Fun,fun,fun. Dart block,dart heads.
They won’t do anything that isn’t tossing a bunch of sponsored parts at a project. Same reason they won’t massage stock parts to make more HP, there’s a whole class of drag racing based on stock appearances where people make 10 second passes on cast iron heads and manifolds, you won’t see that here either because there’s no sponsor cash
Always Always Always make sure that the crankshaft bearings, connecting rod bearings, cylinder walls, piston skirts ect... get a layer of clean oil on them before assembly. I have seen engines seize upon start up from failure to take these simple steps.
You guys obviously know what your doing with engines. Especially Pat… With the whole pro drag racing engine stuff… My question is, why does everyone spray copper seal on cometic head gaskets when they say not to?
I would love to see a dyno comparison between their final setup and a set of 4, down draft Weber carbs. Just in case I ever get my Cobra kit car build started.
Probably not much. Vid after vid on RUclips shows consistently the same thing and that's a single 4bbl has a slight edge in NA applications even over EFI and multi carb setups. Charge cooling is the reason it beats EFI. EFI of course is far more practical as a daily driver and the power loss over a single 4bbl is only small. Of course multi carbs are very visually exciting. I like 2x 4bbls.
@@ThePaulv12 Back during Fords racing program with the Mk 1 GT40, running the 289, Carrol Shelby said the down draft Webber’s were worth 40hp over the best single 4 barrel/intake at that time. It would be interesting to see how they compare today.
@@shanebarron2384 - The available single 4 bbl intake manifolds back then were garbage compared to what are readily available today. 4 bbl carbs have also improved quite a bit.
I agree that single 4bbl intakes are way better than what was available 50 years ago… however it would still be interesting to see the dyno graph overlay from a quad downdraft Weber/Mikuni’s setup vs the best single 4bbl and single plane intake.
Hey guys love the show. I know you’ve done plenty of Windsor builds but I’d love to see how far you can take the ford motorsports alloy z351 block with borla stack injection. Some are saying you can get 460cui out of these.
Could you do a stage 2 for the windsor warrior 427 engine, a solid roller cam, shaft rockers, holley sniper fuel injection with their high rise intake and stand alone system. Just so we can see what the upgrades and power diffence is. On pump gas, and on higher compression, higher octane.
At minute 2:58 i see a tool a would love to have. Do you guys know where i can get the exact model of the spring tester in your back ground at 2:58 into the video.
For me im lucky I own a 351 Windsor pushed out to a 427 all Debured oiling system improved all Roller rockers and chain titanium valves bronze Guides Heads ported and Majorly polished with a Supercharger for a lighting 95 f150 and 42 pound injector and Dynoed at 875 horse power and all in a 94 Mustang GT and have No problem in cleaning house on the 2 ton coyote Mustangs
I've got close to the same combination. I would like to see you guys use the Howard's 224455-09 instead of the 224455-12 to see if it makes more horsepower and torque
There's no such thing as a 427 Windsor. It's a 427 Stroker. As opposed to the factory FE 427 (sideoiler or topoiler) and 427 Cammer (AKA 7.0 SOHC). A factory stroked 351 Windsor crate is the 427 Boss, and when you stroke a 351 Cleveland, it's known as a 427 Clever. If you stroke a 351 Windsor block using 351 Cleveland top end (or vice vsrsa) it's called a 427 Clevor or 427 Windland.
What is a cost estimate for something like this with a shop doing the work? I'm out of the loop on car stuff, but remember in the late 80s and early 90s when someone getting a chevy 427 for 3 grand in need of a rebuild was considered expensive. There were engine shops in or close to pretty much any town of size, and maybe most of them are gone because little is rebuilt by the public, but total cost for a rebuild back then was probably some fraction of an engine and we considered it "expensive".
Is there a part number for this kit Eagle Specialty Products: EAGLE ROTATING ASSEMBLY (BALANCED, .030, H-BEAM ROD, FORGED, MAHLE PISTON -6CC, ESP ARMOR
Yeah yall are fast becoming my go to engine build tips but I have been building all sorts of mechanical projects for over 50 years and so I have accumulated a lot of tips and tricks and knowledge over that amount of time l have also built a few racing cars
I'd like to see hor cheap 393w builds! I"d have to dive thru the barn, but i got the parts to build that! I'll be going in a 94F150 flareside! Can't use what you can't hook up anyway! Build a cheap 5 liter piston, Windsor rod, pressed pin 306 piston motor! Big hydraulic roller cam that will drop right in my 95 roller block! I got heads!
Freeze plugs won't stop a block from cracking if it freezes. There are too many places where the ice would be trapped, those few holes won't relieve the pressure. Those holes are not designed to stop cracking. They are remnants of the casting process. Those are the holes that allow the sand in the core molds to be drained out after casting. Threaded plugs are actually a very good idea. I've had standard "freeze plugs" pop out before. You pretty much instantly lose all your coolant. That's bad. I've never had a block freeze. Never even heard of it happening.
@@hollowpoint357sw4 they still use a granular/powdery substance to form the core molds. That material still has to be drained from inside. And for the vast majority of casting done today, yes, it is still sand. Sand isn't just the stuff you find on beaches. It's not 1920's technology.
I have a question when watching 70s car chases like in the movie (white lightning 1973) what engine noise do they use for gators car? What engine makes that sound?
Would love to do something to up the pwr in my 1991 351w F-250? This vid looks pretty much like expensive ultimate racing build & have enjoyed watching. My tired OEM motor even new only 210hp. Hard to pull itself up a steep hill E4OD auto tranny.
You can use your block or go to the salvage yard for a roller-cam block. Use the stroker kit but go with dished pistons, a milder cam, and home ported factory heads. It may only make 350 hp at peak but the torque number will be huge. Exactly what you need to move a heavy pickup truck.
I have two 408 Windsor's currently; the mild build gets 2 light-poles per gallon. The hot build gets 2 fence posts per gallon. But in all seriousness, I get 10 to 14 with the mild build. I've never checked the other as I don't really want to know!
![351 Windsor - What You Need to Know About the Ford 351w Small Block [5.8 Liter]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/qoK_a0NrtpM/mqdefault.jpg)
![Blox Fruits Dragon Rework Update [Full Stream]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EqDAp8udhm0/mqdefault.jpg)
Built my 427 but based it on the Dart block. Used same heads but the Eddy Super Victor. Compression 10.3 and a Lunati hyd. roller with 241/249 and .600 lift. 6 years ago put on the Price Motorsport dual Holley inline intake with a pair of custom Holleys flowing 660 cfm. Still going strong after 11 years now and it is in my 1985 Mustang LX coupe! 480 HP at the wheels with 505 Torque all in by 5700 RPM.
i would love to have a 427 windsor in my 95 sn95
@@jsigafoo Only thing is, I think you'd get beat up all day by coyotes
Thats alot of motor for 480 whp
Bob- that’s a lot of power for a pump gas out of date camshaft profile……. Todays cam that engine would make another 25hp easy
I was going to skip the extra tip at the end and I seriously learned something. Thanks guys! Glad I didn't skip it.
If you notice on the graph the long stroke motor is already making over 500hp at only 4000 rpm so and like 562 at 5252 ( where HP cross over and read the same) .
My point is to only gain another 50 Hp by revving it to sky high another 1800 to 7000 rpm doesn’t really make a lot of sense pretty indicative of the combo being a bit overkill.
When the torque is that flat you can pretty much shift at 5500-6000 and it will run about the same ET and be way easier on parts.
I built a much milder 427 that I only rev to 5600-5800 But it makes about 520 Hp but it has enough torque at 2100 rpm to cruise with a 5 speed manual Tremec in overdrive at 70 mph. In a 2350 pound cobra replica I wanted a motor that felt very close to a factory 427FE with torque everywhere. I’m very happy with it!
The segment talked about for shoulder to cam clearance but never showed any of it…I’ll bet they had issues!! I had to relieve the shoulders of all my rods to clear the cam lobes and even rr ground the cam to a smaller base circle.
Btw stroker 427’s like tighter lobe separation and more cam advance. Why close the intake so late and give up all the stroke just to gain RPM?
Ran a 4.17 stroke x 4.03 bore windsor for years from 2005-2014. Made as much as 545 rwhp on a dynojet chassis dyno(with a 5spd tremec) and ran as fast as 10.15 @ 132 MPH in a 3150 lb foxbody coupe with a C4 trans,pump 92-93 octane.
All off the shelf parts. AFR 225 heads,Super Victor Edelbrock intake,Herbert mild solid roller cam,1 3/4 headers 3" X pipe and MAC 3" catback with tailpipes.
I am looking to build a 427 in the future.
I'll use my AFR 205 heads and super victor. Then order up a custom cam.
Jees...3150lb fox coupe? That thing was heavy asf. Did you purposely add weight lol?!
@@rudde67ssm62 Nah. That's about right. If he's still had everything inside it.
@@I_like_turtles_67 wrong......
@@rudde67ssm62 Might have added a cage and gone to a 9 inch.
I'm always bummed, and surprised actually, that basically none of the engine builders on RUclips give us viewers maybe 8-10 seconds of idle time. Man, us street guys love that! We want to hear what kind of chop the builds make and how they would fare in the real world. Vacuum too. What stall you'd need on an auto, and that they'd reliably idle with a stick where it's a PIA to keep blipping the throttle while holding the brake and clutch. I'm thinking more about carved applications here.
did you miss the dyno run?
With the 950cfm carb, they saw best performance at 30 degrees of timing, then a bit of a fall-off when they advanced to 32 degrees. Why did you not simply revert back to 30 degrees of timing, then put the big 1150cfm dominator carb on to see if that made a difference? Are you going to leave this engine at 32 degrees of timing, knowing that it does better at 30?
@@bigboreracing356 That's not the point that he was making. Now who's the More Ron?
Yes, I wondered the same thing about the timing. Also, why not dykem and exhibit the pattern the roller rockers are leaving on end of valve tip , aka the 'walk'. Save those valve guides, side load wears out guides ! Maybe that was done throughout all 16 with a push rod length checker before they ordered the set of pushrods. Great video BTW.
@@Lifeistooshort67 Ole No prep there just tends to make ignorant statements on things he knows nothing about to be annoying. Just last week he was telling me how Chrysler engines were really cheap to build in the seventies. Being that I was a Ford and Chrysler supporter in the 70s and understood the lack of aftermarket support for them compared to GM it was a little annoying. I'm sure he's about 16 and is pretty sure he knows just about everything. Ignore him and maybe he'll find a squirrel to entertain him out his window.
They also didn't say that they DIDN'T set the timing back to 30° I'd be pretty sure they actually did, that carb shouldn't have added horsepower, to me, it sounded like they were trying it to dispell the myth that an oversized carb would flood the engine.
Exactly, which means the same, but likely different and opposite. Other than that, perfectly identical theories.
In SOHC form, the FE 427 won NHRA championships in AA/FD, Funny car and AA/GS not to mention Lemans. Most versatile V8 ever.
I love the Fe big block, but this is a Windsor
The SOHC never ran LeMans
Awesome motor guys!!! I love that windsor warrior 🇺🇸💪💪👊🏻 keep the H.P. Vidoes coming, we love em… 🤘🏻
Nothing is ever mentioned about it, but ARP has filled an area that was totally lacking. The new items they design are clever and them rolling the threads onto the fasteners instead of single point chasing them is a major plus. I hope they never run out of ideas!
Now that's a small block. FO MO CO baby.
Nice to see the old Ford Windsor 351cu in engine being repurposed as a high performance 7 Litre/427cu in road monster.
Would love to see this engine back and do a solid roller swap and see the difference between the cams and power.
Yes solid roller and high compression on e85 should be the final part of every build.
I have a 352 FE and a 351W both waiting to get stroked to 427. Should be a fun comparison.
I had a 351w stroked to 408 in a 66 mustang in the 90’s. I always wondered how much more power I could of had with a 427 stroker. 👍🏼
HP is in the heads/cam and torque is in the cubes...
That is a tight fit with the high deck height of the 351.
Not much. Back in the 90s, the 427 stroker was a lousy engine. The earlier versions were just a marketing gimmick capitalizing on the 427 name, but they had poor rod angles due to being so overstroked. They suffered from piston slap, rod failures and short lifespans. Current versions of the "427 stroker/W/R" don't have a single Ford part on them. They're just parts bin race engines. Nothing wrong with that, but can't be called a "Ford 427" with a straight face, IMHO.
probably enough horsepower to twist the frame
THANK YOU!!
Been waiting for a new episode.
You can use dial calipers on the rod bolts. That dial indicator isn’t necessary but, it is a nice dedicated setup.
Learn something new everyday. Back in the day just torquing fasteners to proper spec was considered good enough. Now you must measure bolt stretch in some extreme applications. Cool!
Love these builds. so lucky to access all the great parts.
Bolt a serious set of heads on anything and it will make great power. Nice build.
My mom bought 351w equipped Mustang in ‘69. I got to drive it as a teen, delivering fried chicken around Marina del Rey, CA. Great tips for very quick deliveries.
Sucks we aren’t gonna see any new videos like this anymore. This was one show i loved watching.
Perfect! Just the engine I want for my 427 Cobra replica I'm building. First is the hard part, pricing the build!
@@herbtender910 can’t wait to put an LS in my Falcon more horsepower and better mpg sign me up!
About $8500 including labor from carburetor to oil pan. I just built one for a friend with a mechanical roller cam. Very simple build.
@@StainlessTIG2 Wanna build another?
600hp in a 2300lb car? See ya in the weeds.
this exact particular engine is about 15k
I had bought a 69 351w, $500.00 used, short story I got it rebuilt to a 418ci all high performance, choppy Comp Cam, roller rockers victor junior heads, highrise intake manifold, 850 carb, it was getting about 550hp, on pump gas in a 65 coup Mustang. I sold it though. I miss it. The cost was about $10,000.00 for all the rebuild including magnifluxed and balance. It wouldn't take a 427 kit, I got it maxed out for what it was able to.
Great video, lots of specs, not a lot of bs, enjoyable to watch. Keep up the great vids.
@ 6:06 in...I am busting at the ears man...I can't wait to see what that baby puts out...trick everything...that crank...H beam rods...spec pistons...I knew a guy from Canada...had his own shop...he spent a lot of cash on a Teflon button 350, I know Earning had some great parts in the engine...dang...A Vegas transplant & he was an HONORABLE MAN...I MUST ADD...GOOD GUY...HE TOWED HIS EL CAMINO TO LAUGHLIN FOR THE STREET CAR SHOW...THEY HAD BURN OUT CONTESTS...(I honestly don't know if he broke that engine in...) BUT ON BURN OUT NIGHT...HE GOT ON IT...ONE IF THE PISTONS FRIED...Back to trailer & home...Sad for him...after I lost track because I wasn't in area any longer...wah...
I learned the most at the end of the show about fastener stretch although I am 19 so I don’t know near as much as alotta guys watching this
Great video Ford powered forever baby l love learning about the small block Ford awesome setup
🤠 *You 2 Guys Are Outstanding, And A Great Example Of Methodical & Thorough Working Dream T.E.A.M.= Togetherness, Each Accomplish More 2 Geter Done, Having Fun* 😎
I read about doing this in the 90s. Always wanted to do one. Now it's almost common.
I had a 1960 cobra with the 429 .. it was a kit car but made with pride.
My buddy is getting ready to build us a Windsor. We're going .60 over bore and he's gonna build the internals to be ready for a nitrous plate down the road. For now, we're gonna be running a Holley Sniper EFI setup. This will be taking place of my factory 351M-2bbl which is currently pulling 9mpg at best in our '79F-150.
The Championship Cobra was the small block Cobra that still used the Triumph front suspension and Jag E- type rear suspension that came on all the original unchanged small Cobras. The big block Cobras had an overgrown body with completely different chassis and suspension, brakes steering, etc. etc. But the spelling of Cobra was still original.
The 289's spinning to 8K is what won all the championships in the cobras and daytona coupes. Loved this build- great job. Never discussed what the maximun safe RPM was.
A motor like that would be EXCELLENT to put in my 1989 LTD Crown Victoria...
Cool sleeper
1981 Lincoln Towncar
Would be awesome
It was mentioned that the 427-powered Cobras won the GT Championship. Actually it was the 289-powered Cobras, primarily Daytona's, that won the FIA World GT Championship. The 427FE won in NASCAR, NHRA, SCCA A-Production (Cobra Roadsters), and FIA Prototype racing (Ford GT Mk II and Mk IV), winning LeMans and many other races.
Yep. The 427 Cobra race effort was essentially abandoned by Shelby because the shop couldn't keep up with the Mustang, GT-40 and other projects. Shelby was stretched too thin, and the 427 Cobras were demanding when it came to chassis tuning and setup.
@@randomologist77 A friend who worked for Shelby on the race team said that Ford ordered the Daytona's retired to concentrate on the GT-40's. He also said that Ford insisted on the switch to the 427FE in the GT's so they could sell more Galaxies and Country Squires with big blocks. Apparently Shelby, and many of his guys, felt the small block had plenty of potential left and there was no need to switch to the big/heavy engines. In fact, the GT-40 initially used the OHV Ford Indy 256 cu in/375 hp OHV engine. Ford created DOHC heads for the Indy V-8 and got about 425 hp out of it. Parnelli Jones had a 5.0 liter version of the DOHC Indy engine (in a Lola T-70) with maybe 500 hp. And, later on, John Wyer's Gulf team used the small block (302) with Gurney-Weslake heads to win LeMans twice ('68 & '69). It looks like Shelby was right that the small blocks still had more potential. Since then, we've seen the small blocks punched out to as much as 427 cubic inches.
@@randomologist77 Couldn't find your other reply about the 427 FE, so here's my answer. I should have said Ford wanted to sell FE engines in station wagons, coupes and sedans. Specifically 390's and 428's, not the race oriented, and expensive, 427's. Salesman were supposed to tell Joe Public, "why that 390 in the Country Squire is (virtually) the same engine that just won at Daytona (or LeMans)." Same with the 426 cubic inch so-called "428." It was given that name so people wouldn't try to race it (most race classes were limited to a max of 427 cubes). Then eventually, Ford started offering racing versions of the supposedly non-racing 428 (CJ and SCJ). Anyway, "Race on Sunday, sell on Monday" always depended on selling cars with the same brand or model name, not with the actual same equipment.
@@michaeldelaney7271 I deleted the response because there's just a lot of ground covered. The 428 (4.132 x 3.980) is technically 427ci (426.96ish), the 427 FE (4.233 x 3.784) is technically 426ci, but Ford allowed some finish hone wiggle room in there to get the 427 to "427." Ford made a concerted effort to market the 428 with special drag pack edition Mustangs with the CJ so the idea they didn't want it to be raced seems suspect. The 428 was just inferior to the 427 in race applications as it was a purpose built street engine, not a purpose built race engine like the 427 that was unsuitable for typical production car use. The only reason the 428 even came into being was the 390 being outmatched by upcoming and recently released competitor street engines from GM and Mopar like the the 440 and the L36 427s.
While Ford no doubt wanted to use the 427 FE's potential victories for propaganda's sake, they were looking to win first and the 289 wasn't a winner and probably wasn't going to be a winner at Le Mans. Ford would have been happy to tell Joe Public their 289 engine was the one that won at Le Mans if it came down to it. Also, the small blocks had a long future ahead while FE engines were already in their swan song stage with the 385 series in development. The 289 was overmatched and unreliable at the power levels the GT40 needed to achieve to win at Le Mans. The 255ci Indy V8 was an incredibly exotic and wild engine. Custom aluminum block, DOHC, 4 valves per cylinder, fuel injection, gear drive timing, 12.5:1 CR and unusable below 6,000rpm with an 8,300rpm redline. The 255 still made 60hp less than the intentionally rpm restricted 427 in the GT40s and the 255 was only designed to run 3hrs, not 24hrs. Even if they wanted to use it, Ford didn't have time to devote to a build program for the Indy engine for Le Mans and it was not an engine they could market as it had nothing in common with the production engines.
Also, from my understanding, the drivers made the call to go with the 427 after it proved Ford's point of view by blowing track records out of the water. It was just a no brainer. The 427 was more powerful, more reliable and more forgiving with an ability to pull well down under 2,000rpm. Shelby wanted lighter weights and after the successes of the 427 were proven again, Shelby begged (and was denied) the 427 for the Mustangs, instead getting the 428 as 427 production couldn't be ramped up even if Ford wanted to do it.
@@randomologist77 I'm sorry about getting mixed up on the FE's various displacements. "427's" are actually 426 cu. in. and "428's" are actually 427 cu. in. I had always heard that Ford absolutely did not want to call one of their engines a "426" as that was a famous MoPar Max Wedge and Hemi designation.
Ya, 1000th like. Good work guys, love seeing those Windsors.
I love the videos, I really wish I knew more about intake centerline, and vacuum readings since I grew up in an era of fuel injection finding good carburetor tuning is really difficult
Wow.... taking a 351w to 7000rpm.
The last time I ran a 351w I had all I could do to get her up to 5500...and she probably stopped making power before 5500.
I did manage to squeeze 322hp out of her,She was out of breath around 4700.
Back then there were no aluminium heads etc for the 351w and add to that I really didn't have the know -how to really understand what I was doing.
She still ran very good,Spanked a few other cars around,But she didn't have the power like your engine
Over 600hp!!! It just wasn't possible for most of us..you want more RPMs you had to consider moving up to a 351C or really do some wizardry on a 390,428 or a 429... skills and money which I didn't possess
It's impressive that the aftermarket took the Windsor head and modified it to the point that 500+ HP engines are possible. I wonder why Ford couldn't design a decent Windsor head from the beginning?
yes it will run on pump gas but that set up would do so much better on racing fuel . put 110 to 120 octane thru the intake and set it to 30 degrees that would let it will lift the front end on any old ford it would also make the engine a lot happier. they were made to run on high octane back in the day and even the aftermarket blocks love the high octane juice.
That's all nice, but in my experience with a 2 bolt main block and less stroke at just 4" (408), I had some pretty signicficant amount of cap walk and fretting of the mating surfaces. That was with the external 28oz imbalance crank that was balanced to the rotating assy. too. This was 6K rev limited and used for a road race application so lots of extended RPM times. This is a lot of weight and a BIG arm swinging around to try to control with cast iron 2 bolt mains. It might be OK for limited street use and the occational rip down the dragstrip, but not the best idea for a race application or high RPM with extended times. OK for budget street stuff, though.
@Emerald Triangle Who are you referring to?
Better looking than any LS out there.
i love the ford engine episodes
I built a Windsor 351 stroke to 427 made 690 horsepower. Put this in a square body Mustang.Best best was was 9.4sec at 144 mph. Fun,fun,fun. Dart block,dart heads.
Don't forget the 427 SOHC Cammer V8 as well.
Great video guys! Lots of great information! 😀💯
I would like that one day they do a program in which they teach some tricks to improve oil pressure and lubrication for those 351w
They won’t do anything that isn’t tossing a bunch of sponsored parts at a project.
Same reason they won’t massage stock parts to make more HP, there’s a whole class of drag racing based on stock appearances where people make 10 second passes on cast iron heads and manifolds, you won’t see that here either because there’s no sponsor cash
Great video guys...Pat great beard too!
A very good descriptive video you guys. What a gas.
Always Always Always
make sure that the crankshaft bearings, connecting rod bearings, cylinder walls, piston skirts ect...
get a layer of clean oil on them before assembly.
I have seen engines seize upon start up from failure to take these simple steps.
A Holley Hi-Ram fuel-injection with a little less camshaft would be an ideal street engine. Very impressive numbers.
Nice let's drop it in my 65 fastback 🐎🚗🔧🇺🇲💯
Today's parts make it easy to make 500+ hp 351w based strokers.
You guys obviously know what your doing with engines. Especially Pat… With the whole pro drag racing engine stuff… My question is, why does everyone spray copper seal on cometic head gaskets when they say not to?
Nice job, thanks
I would love to see a dyno comparison between their final setup and a set of 4, down draft Weber carbs. Just in case I ever get my Cobra kit car build started.
Probably not much. Vid after vid on RUclips shows consistently the same thing and that's a single 4bbl has a slight edge in NA applications even over EFI and multi carb setups. Charge cooling is the reason it beats EFI.
EFI of course is far more practical as a daily driver and the power loss over a single 4bbl is only small.
Of course multi carbs are very visually exciting. I like 2x 4bbls.
@@ThePaulv12
Back during Fords racing program with the Mk 1 GT40, running the 289, Carrol Shelby said the down draft Webber’s were worth 40hp over the best single 4 barrel/intake at that time. It would be interesting to see how they compare today.
@@shanebarron2384 - The available single 4 bbl intake manifolds back then were garbage compared to what are readily available today. 4 bbl carbs have also improved quite a bit.
I agree that single 4bbl intakes are way better than what was available 50 years ago… however it would still be interesting to see the dyno graph overlay from a quad downdraft Weber/Mikuni’s setup vs the best single 4bbl and single plane intake.
This is a fun episode.
Hey guys love the show. I know you’ve done plenty of Windsor builds but I’d love to see how far you can take the ford motorsports alloy z351 block with borla stack injection. Some are saying you can get 460cui out of these.
Could you do a stage 2 for the windsor warrior 427 engine, a solid roller cam, shaft rockers, holley sniper fuel injection with their high rise intake and stand alone system. Just so we can see what the upgrades and power diffence is. On pump gas, and on higher compression, higher octane.
At minute 2:58 i see a tool a would love to have. Do you guys know where i can get the exact model of the spring tester in your back ground at 2:58 into the video.
If you add up the cost of this build, you are close to the cost of 427FE build. Love the channel keep up the good work 👍👍
Yes and I would rather have the FE 427's stronger block and components.
I would love to see this same motor on the dino with Holley EFI on it :)))
@@bigboreracing356 in what aspect ? To a gravity-fed carburetor .
T TANA It's Dyno not Dino.
@@wysetech2000 Tru Dat . Freaking speech to text
I was thinking about that same thing.
It's what I want to put in my 88 town car.
@@shanerichardson9568 lol its already fuel injected.
Fantastic video
Hot rod mag did a 392 inch windsor. It made 748 horsepower.
They have these hemi heads for a Ford block kinda wanna see these on the show expensive as sjell
hey you two , how about retesting the 351w engine with the new 4.25 stroker crank shaft and with a LOW END TORQUE camshaft and not the high rpm one`s
For me im lucky I own a 351 Windsor pushed out to a 427 all Debured oiling system improved all Roller rockers and chain titanium valves bronze Guides Heads ported and Majorly polished with a Supercharger for a lighting 95 f150 and 42 pound injector and Dynoed at 875 horse power and all in a 94 Mustang GT and have No problem in cleaning house on the 2 ton coyote Mustangs
I hate how TV show will always leave out cam spec's. Duration and LIFT!!! we want to know it all. Glad they've gotten better at this.
I've got close to the same combination. I would like to see you guys use the Howard's 224455-09 instead of the 224455-12 to see if it makes more horsepower and torque
Wish we could get linked parts lists for these. The links in the description never take you to the part!
pay attention to the beginning. they say its available at summit and they gave you the name as well. look it up
AWESOME!!
Another great video, guys! 🙂 Thank you. How much would a 427 Windsor to that specification cost, roughly?
Paul 😎
15-20k. I’m currently getting one built now with a blower and direct port and it’s 25k ish to 30k
There's no such thing as a 427 Windsor. It's a 427 Stroker. As opposed to the factory FE 427 (sideoiler or topoiler) and 427 Cammer (AKA 7.0 SOHC).
A factory stroked 351 Windsor crate is the 427 Boss, and when you stroke a 351 Cleveland, it's known as a 427 Clever. If you stroke a 351 Windsor block using 351 Cleveland top end (or vice vsrsa) it's called a 427 Clevor or 427 Windland.
@@RockandrollNegro Thanks, Marvin. I know.
Paul 😎
look it up in Summit Racing, this motor is 13-15 grand
@@RockandrollNegro not really , a 427 stroked engine with inline heads from a Windsor block in called a 427 Windsor ...
Awesome video
Comment for the algorithm 👍love this stuff
Trick flow 240 highports then turn it to 7k. Leave the 950. I wanna see that.
The SCCA spec Cobras were powered by the 289. In fact the Ford GT's competing in the WEC before '66 were also powered by the 289.
What is a cost estimate for something like this with a shop doing the work? I'm out of the loop on car stuff, but remember in the late 80s and early 90s when someone getting a chevy 427 for 3 grand in need of a rebuild was considered expensive. There were engine shops in or close to pretty much any town of size, and maybe most of them are gone because little is rebuilt by the public, but total cost for a rebuild back then was probably some fraction of an engine and we considered it "expensive".
Absolutely awesome
If you start with a big block, and added similar upgrades, wouldn't more cubes produce more power?
Ain't no substitute for cubic inches, right?
Yes you are right
I’d love to put that motor in a ‘88-‘90 Mustang GT fastback
Then do it!
Is there a part number for this kit Eagle Specialty Products: EAGLE ROTATING ASSEMBLY (BALANCED, .030, H-BEAM ROD, FORGED, MAHLE PISTON -6CC, ESP ARMOR
When can we see a Track Boss 351C on your channel
Yeah yall are fast becoming my go to engine build tips but I have been building all sorts of mechanical projects for over 50 years and so I have accumulated a lot of tips and tricks and knowledge over that amount of time l have also built a few racing cars
That is beautiful eye candy
from the looks of it, they appeared to be degreeing the cam with the #2 cylinder(first cylinder on the right side of the motor)
Front cylinder on passenger side is #1. Fords are numbered 1,2,3,4 down the passenger side, 5,6,7,8 down the driver's side.
Beard looks good, Pat.
I'd like to see hor cheap 393w builds! I"d have to dive thru the barn, but i got the parts to build that! I'll be going in a 94F150 flareside! Can't use what you can't hook up anyway! Build a cheap 5 liter piston, Windsor rod, pressed pin 306 piston motor! Big hydraulic roller cam that will drop right in my 95 roller block! I got heads!
I got a 351w with a c6 transmission 73000 on it. Running order. For sale. Great shape.
Seriously use the ads
How does this engine sound so good? Explanation please!
NICE! Is this an off the shelf package from Summit?
What good are threaded freeze plugs? The looked like they were cast metal won’t the block crack?
I was wondering the same thing
Freeze plugs won't stop a block from cracking if it freezes. There are too many places where the ice would be trapped, those few holes won't relieve the pressure. Those holes are not designed to stop cracking. They are remnants of the casting process. Those are the holes that allow the sand in the core molds to be drained out after casting. Threaded plugs are actually a very good idea. I've had standard "freeze plugs" pop out before. You pretty much instantly lose all your coolant. That's bad. I've never had a block freeze. Never even heard of it happening.
@@johnterpack3940 This at ain’t the 1920s they don’t cast blocks in sand anymore.
@@hollowpoint357sw4 they still use a granular/powdery substance to form the core molds. That material still has to be drained from inside. And for the vast majority of casting done today, yes, it is still sand. Sand isn't just the stuff you find on beaches. It's not 1920's technology.
Man I want to build a f!ing 351w now, my 5.0 sounds so sweet though
Seeing pat without his hair slicked is more unsettling than I feel it should be.
Hella nice
I have a question when watching 70s car chases like in the movie (white lightning 1973) what engine noise do they use for gators car? What engine makes that sound?
lovely songs !
Awesome
Wondering how this set up would be in my 1989 f150 supercab
2 wheel or 4 wheel drive? If it's a lowered 2 wheel drive, this motor would make it a nice little hot rod...
@@waynefontaine5533 it's a 2 stock ride height
Would love to do something to up the pwr in my 1991 351w F-250? This vid looks pretty much like expensive ultimate racing build & have enjoyed watching. My tired OEM motor even new only 210hp. Hard to pull itself up a steep hill E4OD auto tranny.
You can use your block or go to the salvage yard for a roller-cam block. Use the stroker kit but go with dished pistons, a milder cam, and home ported factory heads. It may only make 350 hp at peak but the torque number will be huge. Exactly what you need to move a heavy pickup truck.
@@mchristr Exactly the info I was hoping for - thx so much!
Nice job guys. Great power output. But what about the fuel mileage? Theoretically!
Lmfao!
I have two 408 Windsor's currently; the mild build gets 2 light-poles per gallon. The hot build gets 2 fence posts per gallon. But in all seriousness, I get 10 to 14 with the mild build. I've never checked the other as I don't really want to know!
@@cgarris8674 👍
A couple gpm, but who cares.
There's always that one dingleberry who has to ask fuel mileage on some crazy horsepower engine. No one is building these for fuel economy dingbat.
My buddy put a 351 Windsor in a 64 Mustang he had to use the 289 manifolds to fit in between the two towers
why not put it back to 30 for the dominator?