As a Czech, let me answer the first questions about SH being available here. Yes, Playstation was here a thing and SH 1 was normally sold here in stores. But people here always were less focused on consoles and more on PC gaming. SH2, SH3 and SH4 was normally sold for PC and Playstation 2. Normally available. Not translated to Czech language, but it doesn't matter... we play games in english mostly. Or you could install czech language, but as an unofficial amateur patch made by fans, that translates only the subtitles during cutscenes. PSP was normally sold here, too, so people can get Origins and Shattered Memories... the same with Xbox and PS3, so you could normally buy Downpour and Homecoming.
Always loved Downpour, glad to see my favorite Silent Hill RUclipsr have a deep love for it as well. And it’s good to hear from Tom, I remember and feel bad for the time in which he was viewed as the demon that destroyed Silent Hill as a franchise. You could tell he always had a deep love for the world he was working with.
It's great to hear from Tomm and nowadays I'd be very happy to see Downpour or another game released of its quality I'm also happy to hear that he seems to look back on that era fondly and he and the people who kept Silent Hill going after it moved west deserve a lot of credit and respect for what they accomplished.
This was a even deeper dive into the creation of silent hill downpour and the end product of our beloved games. As long as there are people like Muse Tom and all us fans and members of the gamingmuse channel, silent hill will always exist and be part us forever xo :) cheers and thankyou so much
you really go above and beyond to get the framing of a games genesis situated in reality in a way other fans absolutely do not. most people treat a games development as it's own kind of lore, the mythology of 'team silent' was it's own kind of brand/marketing and you draw the lines between what is real and what is just fan culture in a unique way most of the giant 6 hour video guys simply aren't interested in
I liked a lot of what Downpour brought to the table and I really enjoyed it. I'd love to see it remastered with bugs and performance issues ironed out. Downpour deserves more credit than it got.
From what I’ve heard it performs much better via backwards compatibility on Xbox One/Series consoles. But I heartily agree. (Leave it to me make this comment while watching the video, only for Hullett to say the exact same thing right after I post it…)
All it brought to the table was throwing everything out Team Silent crafted to turn Silent Hill into a haunted town that makes people deal with there inner demons, half the ending contradicted events and dialogue and to top if of no one on the design team could answer if it was purgatory or alt dimension because they hated was Team Silent established.
@@robmorris4056 that is legitimately one of the most absurd comments I’ve ever read. Because they “hated” what Team Silent created? Yeah, sure, they literally spent years actively trying to “ruin” a series, listen to yourself, honestly. If you don’t like it, fine, if you want to criticize, fine, but don’t make up vulgar untruths to fit your own narrative, it’s just plain childish.
@@IchiSwagger Okay but have you even looked up anything, Tom Hulett constantly called the old games dated and hard to control and mocked the voice acting in Silent Hill 2 , most of the higher up people didn't like the cult aspect of the early games, but sure i'am lying i mean if you think Troy Baker doing dude bro, Phantom of The Opera chain-smoker edition wasn't proof enough they had no respect for the early games along side all the over voice changes then sorry i can't help you.
@@IchiSwagger They did ruin it though, they did turn Silent hill into a haunted town in Downpour, they did water down the impact Pyramid Head by reusing him over and over, they even ruined Team Silent's work with the HD collection because that was some people's first experience with the series, they also couldn't even do an origin story right because Origins getting loads wrong about Silent Hill 1 and again adds in lore that makes no sense even contradicting SH1 at want point do you stop lying to yourself and expect the western games and people ruined the series.
Oh my God you got Tomm! I’m a rare one that loves Origins, Homecoming, Shattered Memories, and Downpour. Wasn’t a big fan of the dungeon crawler, but that’s not my genre in general. Thank you for the video, Muse.
Kinda like Origins and Homecoming story. The gameplay of Origins was meh! to me and Homecoming's was desastrous. But I can too give them some merites. But I loved Shattered Memories for what they were trying to do. I just wished they didn't try to make that hybrid of action/horror, or that it wasn't so clumsy in the execution.
Book of memories (Dungeon Crawler) was fun and silly to me. I enjoyed my time playing it but it definitely isn't creepy at all. Just unnerving with some of the visuals. It also made me realize that I have a phobia of seeing grotesque internal organs. Was not able to man up and get through the rest of the game as I couldn't get myself to get pass the 3 "meat" levels. xD
@@DatOneCat you're lucky you can even attempt to play these kinds of games at all! I skip right over horror games because I know from the outset that I won't be able to handle them. That's why I really like channels like this; outside of games I actually really like horror, so I can get the story and character studies without going through the trauma of actually trying to play the games. I nearly broke my ex's PlayStation 3 trying to play Dead Space. I had the controller plugged in to charge while playing, and the part where the fetus monsters jump out at you made me jump literal feet in the air. I nearly pulled the entire console off the shelf with that move and he was not pleased to say the least. I immediately turned off the game and went to bed that game messed me up so bad.
@@BlusViews my Favorite of All Time is SH2, I think thats a pretty standard one for most lol. Second I have SH3 because I really love Heather and I love the way they tie all the plot threads together with SH1. Then Downpour I love for its atmosphere and honestly just the general direction It took its weird (admittedly flawed) plot. I have SH1 RIGHT on its heels. Its the OG, it started it all, and it's really genuinely unsettling. I just think its marred with some poorly aged elements that make it harder for me to enjoy playing through again, personally. I still try to play it annually though. And I know you didnt ask, but Id rank the whole series as follows: SH2 SH3 Downpour SH1 Shattered Memories SH4 (I really hate the second half of this game lol) Origins Homecoming
always great to get new perspectives and information that isn't the hateful screeching of entrenched fan channels that don't even know what they're talking about
It was really cool to hear someone from Vatra speaking about this game in the present, I love downpour especially because its rainy atmosphere and the theatre puzzle
I think it was toxic elements of the fan base that singled him out but Konami definitely weren't quick to correct the record and admit that the issues with the series going forward had a lot to do with their business decisions. I think that the only reason that the Japanese - made games were as effective was because they weren't expecting quite so much of a return from them. Once SH2 made the series a critical darling it was only a matter of time before the money men started getting excited about milking it for everything it was worth.
This is awesome! Quadruple badass points for interviewing Tomm Hulett. I remember when I first played Downpour, and the suspense of Murphy's character unraveling was absolutely captivating for pretty much the same reasons he mentioned here- if I'm playing a good guy, bad guy, etc. I usually replay Downpour (along with every other entry in the series) at least once or twice a year. I think now is an appropriate time. I think Downpour was honestly the last videogame I was ever hyped for or pre-ordered. (I lean more towards classic games and have a limited budget anyway.) I've had some of the more subtle music stuck in my head, like the town or interior ambience. I've also got a playlist of the WLMN-FM songs. I really wish they'd make another entry that explores some of the characters and themes introduced in Downpour, but with the ridiculous amount of hatred for that game, I can see how it'd be hard to pitch.
I want to thank you for making such great videos about Silent Hill, and its so awesome how you were able to talk to Tom Hewlett and ask him questions about Downpour. At the time it was a game I was really looking forward to, it really seemed like the year of Silent Hill bc Revelation was also going to come out in the same year. I remember spending my free time on the computers at school watching the early footage of Downpour and the trailer. Pre-ordered it and really enjoyed playing it. It still surprises me to hear fans of the series complain about every new entry whilst they still hold onto the first three games as the holy grail, so that meant they weren't a fan of any new content for about 10 years, wonder how they be so bitter for so long. I blame a certain channel for stirring such toxicity in the fandom, but from what you said, its mostly American/western fans who complain the most, the rest of the world is happy enough to play these games.
This sums up the western games, Silent hill Origins/ gets most things wrong about the origins and should not even exist as you need the events in SH1 to take place for the monsters and other-world to happen. Homecoming/ doesn't even try to explain how things happen which is fine because it's more of a Saw rip off. Downpour/ boiled down to a haunted town that can teleport you around and resurrect the dead. Shattered Memories/ again explains nothing but why it's all a dream. Book of Memories/ goes one further and makes it canon you just need an object from Silent Hill and you can bring about all the previous monsters and other world. That's why no fan-base should expect writers that have zero clue about the IP there tasked to work on or don't even like the elements of it (most of the leads on the western games didn't like the cult aspect) you want another sum up they just copied Silent Hill 2 over and over and again where clueless as they thought all the original games monsters where attached to the main protagonist even though that only happened in Silent Hill 2 and not all the monster in that game where attached to James some where attached to Angela, you can say toxic all you like but nothing going to change facts they where unable to make good Silent Hill games.
@@robmorris4056 Why don't you throw in the Pachinko machine or the arcade game whilst you're busy listing off the spin-offs? Can't help but notice you left out PT Silent Hills, the best thing to ever happen in 2014 for any horror fan. And forget what I said before, if you disregard this game, its been almost 20 years since you guys last liked a Silent Hill game so why do you even bother? I like all the games and think they have something of value to offer, which is all owned and played through by my sister and I (the main entries mind you). The first game says on the back cover that EVERY town has its secrets, I take it to mean not just a locally held conspiracy, but also the possibility that the horrors seen in that town are not exclusive, as we have seen in Ashfield Heights, Shepherd's Glen, and yes, even that city Heather was in in the beginning of the game. Origins attempts to explore and expand upon the backstory of Alessa whilst also telling the story of its protagonist Travis but I feel like its strongest point is in its straightfoward nature which I suspect to be a result of the rushed development; Silent Hill Homecoming is much more American (which explains the Saw/Hostel references) and convoluted in its symbolism but it does give an explanation as to what's happening, but again, its strongest point is in its personal story of the families; and Silent Hill Downpour is pretty buggy and weak in its transition between locations, but again THE PERSONAL STORY is pretty bangin (there was no resurrection, but guess what did? The resurrection ending in Silent Hill 2). But you're right, the town of Silent Hill is not a haunted house/town, and I don't think any of the games attempted to treat it as such (except maybe if you look at the literal HAUNTED locations Henry encounters). And yeah the personal monster was only Red Pyramid Head for James, there were other monsters that represented the antagonist (like Silent Hill 1 and 4), and there were monsters that appeared in other games (like the Mandarin in Silent Hill 2 and the Closer in Silent Hill 3). But I think it is folly to think of the franchise in terms of "these are the rules since a precedent was set and we need to stick to them". Like what Twin Perfect assumes, and is missing the point. The earlier games weren't good because, lets say, the ambiguous other worlds had a set of rules that were followed, or the monsters represented this or that. But rather Silent Hill is an experience that is scary and mysterious, its staples of monsters and the town itself is secondary, and that's what PT understood and presented so brilliantly. Its also what would make you describe a scary, emotional movie as "Silent Hill-eque", an example would be its inspiration, Jacob's Ladder, its a perfect Silent Hill film if you thought if it that way. If you want a good Silent Hill game, you're gonna need a good game first and foremost, and one that is scary, and you need to let go of the die-and-hard rules you think it needs to follow, bc it doesn't need to follow any of that. It can work as a standalone and still be a good Silent Hill game.
It is nice to see Downpour get some love these days, it feels like it's trying to do something unique, like Silent Hill 2 it's less focused on the cult and more on the characters within Silent Hill, the town being used as a mirror to reflect the flaws back on the people who stumble into it.
Thank you, such a great interview & insight into a really great survival horror, often unfairly judged, we love Silent Hill Downour very much, thank you for showcasing it, with such fascinating info.
Aaaaaahhhh wath atractive and good looking group of men worked at Vatra!! I cant belive its been 10 years since the last Silent Hill. Downpour was one of the most inspired SH games with the best athmosphere and i dont remember too many glitches going on tough the combat was pretty awkard. I loved Murphy, but i was sad the other characters were ingored completelly (like the nun or the postman). Storyline could have been better butthis was Silent Hill finally heading to the rigth direction.
I didn't enjoy Downpur, but that doesn't mean it's a bad game. And your research on the game and issues the team behind it experienced, really puts a lot of stuff in to another perspective. And now.. I kinda wanna try the game out again, because I see things in a different light.
Why, Silent hill Origins/ gets most things wrong about the origins and should not even exist as you need the events in SH1 to take place for the monsters and other-world can happen. Homecoming/ doesn't even try to explain how things happen which is fine because it's more of a Saw rip off. Downpour/ boiled down to a haunted town that can teleport you around and resurrect the dead. Shattered Memories/ again explains nothing but why it's all a dream. Book of Memories/ goes one further and makes it canon you just need an object from Silent Hill and you can bring about all the previous monsters and other world.
Although I'm not from the Czech Republic, but from Hungary, I think our situation is very similar. The fact that most games are not available in our language does not mean that most games are not known here in Central-Eastern Europe. We played the European version of Silent Hill 1 back in 1999, and since there was no in-game translation, but knowledge of the text was essential for solving the puzzles, unofficial walkthroughs were published in Hungarian. So we played the game while reading a book or a magazine. Then, of course, as children we learned English quite quickly, mainly from the video games themselves.
another amazing vid! i was so excited when i saw this on my feed, i almost missed my meeting 😅 i really love your silent hill vids in general and i wanna say thanks for helping me view downpour in a more positive light! i was kind of disappointed the first time i experienced it, but looking back at it and watching your vids, ive found a whole new appreciation for it. cant wait for more 😊💖
Meeting a maker of your favorite game must be a dream come true. I'm happy for you Muse. That said, it was a missed opportunity not to talk about Bloodstained.
Amazing video! So great to hear what Tomm has to say about the production of Downpour. It certainly inspiring me to pick the game back up again and finally finish it! Keep up the great work Muse! =D
Really appreciate all the work and passion you put into these silent hill videos. Downpour is one of my favorite games. I really like the radios in there and have tracked a few of the more known songs like if I had a boat by James Vincent McMurray( that last names wrong but I'm having a major brain fart on this) and silver stallion by the highway men but most of the other music on there I assume is licensed I just can't seem to find the artists names. If you got any insight I'd appreciate it.
Tomm used to interact often with the fan base on Hell Descent forums and SH Community forums, he was always very enthusiastic about the games and I'd have loved to see him make more, but glad he's happy at Wayforward. It always annoyed me that he got a lot of toxic hate and harrasment, thanks to TwinPerfect. Tomm did a great job on the games he captained.
Im czech and thats partially why Downpour is so dissapointing to me because i live in a very small town yet there's all these reminders everywhere of a violent history that happend here and i feel like this would influence the game's atmosphere heavily yet the atmosphere feels i think more shallow then all the other silent hill games
It's why I've always considered it to be a hidden gem for the series, it's among the greats and the team knew exactly what they were doing. There was only 1 aspect of the game I didn'r like and it was just the UI, it was just too grungey, too over the top, really didn't need all that weird black oiling animation, the font was gratuitous. But I love it all the same, if by some miracle it gets ported to PC, I would love to mod it.
They have zero clue what they where doing most of the endings contradict the story, and they boiled the town down to a haunted town that can teleport you around and resurrect the dead that's as far away from Silent Hill as you can get.
I never understood why Tomm Hullett was singled out by some fans for every negative aspect they would find in the western SHs. If his wiki profile is anything to go by, he did us a favour by discarding and disapproving of other members' ideas like Homecoming featuring an ultimate battle between Josh and Alessa. I personally cringe at the thought lol
I recalled TheGreatDebate had interviewed him, and he recalled that being the representative to Konami in many interviews and kiosks had set him up as one… He was a senior associate producer, which I could imagine every ideas he had to withstand all that cringe or an unpredictable event that would occur to him and SH.
Tomm railed so hard against Pyramid Head being in Homecoming they gave him busy work for a few months to shut him up and only brought him back because someone else left the project.
It’s a Silent Hill game with a complete different approach to SH. It’s like they set a new Silent Hill, new rules, new otherworld, new everything. They had some good people working on the game. The guys that worked on the Mafia games are legit.
I love your videos. I know you mostly do silent hill analysis stuff but I think it be cool to hear your perspective on the game Martha is Dead. I just beat it and still have many questions.
I have never played Downpour, but I own it and I intend to dive into it. I was scouring this comment section and there's plenty of defenders coming in to show their love for it and based on that alone I'm willing to go into it with an open mind and see what it's all about.
Being honest I bought it day one with that "I wont like it because is not team silent" mentality... and ended up getting the platinum😅! Really appreciated The Room's Easter Egg and few years later a lot of my friends told me "You know what... I think I was to harsh on that game... it wasn't that bad at all" *And I'm talking hardcore fans* I think there's not much original approach you can make to the lore after The room in terms of the cult so they had to go with the psychological approach of SH2... Silent Hill: The Short Message did the same thing and it was good!
Tomm Hulett is not a bad dude yet people treat him like he's an axe murderer or something. A lot of people don't like the post Team Silent era and that's fine, but 1, Tomm wasn't the only person who worked on those games, and 2, it just doesn't warrant the sheer amount of vitriol some people have over it.
I never need any Silent Hill game to make sense or be fully explained to me. It's not a story in game form to me. SH is the very definition of 'mindfuck' to me. It's an experience that disturbs me, unsettles me, confuses me and more than anything - it gets to me with a wide range of emotions with the character's and what they've been through. Some emotions felt while playing are deeper and long lasting than others. The emotions I felt when playing make the games unforgettable to me and no doubt other fans. I definitely appreciate the ambiguity, symbolism, atmosphere & puzzles typically featured in Silent Hill games. I never understood why so many SH fans hated Downpour right off the bat. None of the Silent Hill games I've played are bad to me - the only ones I haven't played are Alchemilla & Book of Memories. I've heard bad things about those two. If anyone has played those two, please let me know what they were like.
TBH I really like the fresh take that wasn't the fire/blood/metal motif that has dominated the series. I did wish for a few more monster varieties. The train sequence legitimately freaked me out. If Silent Hill is to survive (TBD), It needs fresh takes and new ideas. I often think about different people being affected by the world and, even more fascinating, what two people in the town would see at the same time. In fact, before my money person flaked off to do American ninja warrior, I was working on a short movie that would play on a Silent Hill type town that a couple happen into while fleeing the authorities.
I actually enjoyed (generally speaking) Homecoming and Downpour. They were 100% mediocre games, but for some reason i still enjoyed playing through them. They definitely didn't feel like original silent hill games, more like licensed games or something like that. Similarly like when they make movies off of a game franchise and it feels nothing like the original content, but just uses visual themes and makes something else out of those things. Ironically i think that is what holds them back. Its like "okay we got a spooky town, its dark and grimey. Check. Now it'll be like silent hill". Rather than making their own unique work of art, their own unique expression to create a visceral dark atmosphere that will stand time.
Hey guys, after 12 years, today, I finally figured out that your health is displayed under "Game statistics". I know Konami US forced Vatra to make this game the mess that it was, but why were there things like this?? I played this game on launch and got so mad I just gave up. But stuff like this makes absolutely no sense. I found the pistol and now I have to drop the nailgun to use a melee weapon? Why can I store it away anymore? Am I missing something?? LOL
The more he explained the process and decisions that were made during the making of the game, the more it makes sense why the game flopped, respectfully. Having "sure" and "I guess it's fine" approach to beloved serious is almost insulting. Normally, people would not have this nonchalant attitude to something they cherish.
That's a little unfair. When you're working long distance on such expensive projects that you can't just redo every time something's not exactly what you want, you have to accept what is, and work from there. It's not about not caring, its about being realistic with expectations. Also, the game didn't flop - it actually sold well, it's merely the attitude in fandom circles at the time was very polarized. We all know why...
@@thegamingmuse the game sold well? I read back in the day about just 500.000 copy sold, but it must have been not accurate then. I am curious about it .
@@thegamingmuse Maybe so. like you said they had other factors that hindered the process. but still, I don't think my observation is too far off. I don't have any attachment to the SH series, so as someone who's outside the circle, I think even if the game sold well, we all know it didn't elevate the series nor it was as well received as the previous entries.
@ODdm3 Its like what muse said, its less of a "he doesn't care" to "he can't micromanage everything he just needs to have realistic expectations". The vibe Tom Hulett gave sounds a lot like what other gaming developers and coders behave if you watch their videos on making games, like if something's buggy but works "its good enough for now". There's a lot of that.
I really like this game. It wasn't perfect but I think it was a victim of snobbery from legacy games media and some fans against the concept of western developers working on the Silent Hill franchise.
Yes because modern western media totally respects the source material, isn't full of plot holes and doesn't have bad writing, no ones against western Silent Hill games, as long as you get a team that respects the original work, understand the series inside and out and doesn't bad mouth the original games, all things the western games did along side the people behind the games.
You can sum up Downpour in two words (haunted town), gone was everything that made up the first four games all we got was a crappy western horror game about a haunted town i mean what idiot thinks roller-coasters, water slides and basically fantasy levels with non euclidean levels add up to scary.
I really think thgamingmuse should make a video on what you just said, bc even today people like you will still call the later entries of Silent Hill "western" games, despite the entire video talking about the game developer, Vatra, being Czech and how it influenced the game.
@@nottechytutorials Western is just a stand in for not made by the original team, and if you found any Czech horror influences or anything related to that culture in the game good for you, but your ignoring the leads and director where mainly from America and the writer for the comic where the character Howard Blackwood comes from (which makes no sense because you would of needed the events of Silent Hill 1 to make his character work as he does) also worked on the game so another American (who also doesn't understand Silent Hill) the only reason Czech was picked because it was the cheapest option there culture was the last thing on konami's mind.
@@robmorris4056 Boi I could argue with you all day long so you better you pick your battles. But I'll just address your first point for now: "Western is just a stand in for not made by the original team" And by "original team" do you mean "Team Silent"? Thegamingmuse made a video on that you could check out, or if you made a spreadsheet to see who went on to the next game, you'd find the "core members" did not carry over in the same positions they had previously (exception is Akira Yamaoka).
![Silent Hill Analysis | Developing the Town of Silent Hill [PS1]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/4sA8yC8zRUw/mqdefault.jpg)
As a Czech, let me answer the first questions about SH being available here.
Yes, Playstation was here a thing and SH 1 was normally sold here in stores. But people here always were less focused on consoles and more on PC gaming.
SH2, SH3 and SH4 was normally sold for PC and Playstation 2. Normally available. Not translated to Czech language, but it doesn't matter... we play games in english mostly. Or you could install czech language, but as an unofficial amateur patch made by fans, that translates only the subtitles during cutscenes.
PSP was normally sold here, too, so people can get Origins and Shattered Memories... the same with Xbox and PS3, so you could normally buy Downpour and Homecoming.
Always loved Downpour, glad to see my favorite Silent Hill RUclipsr have a deep love for it as well. And it’s good to hear from Tom, I remember and feel bad for the time in which he was viewed as the demon that destroyed Silent Hill as a franchise. You could tell he always had a deep love for the world he was working with.
Seriously, one of my faves, next to the room. I'm built different
It's great to hear from Tomm and nowadays I'd be very happy to see Downpour or another game released of its quality
I'm also happy to hear that he seems to look back on that era fondly and he and the people who kept Silent Hill going after it moved west deserve a lot of credit and respect for what they accomplished.
This was a even deeper dive into the creation of silent hill downpour and the end product of our beloved games. As long as there are people like Muse Tom and all us fans and members of the gamingmuse channel, silent hill will always exist and be part us forever xo :) cheers and thankyou so much
Downpour was the first silent hill game I’ve ever played and I fell in love with it. Thank you for covering it :)
Thanks for this, GM. I appreciate your devotion to Silent Hill.
You a legend for the constant updates and new information about the franchise that we love
Fr
you really go above and beyond to get the framing of a games genesis situated in reality in a way other fans absolutely do not.
most people treat a games development as it's own kind of lore, the mythology of 'team silent' was it's own kind of brand/marketing
and you draw the lines between what is real and what is just fan culture in a unique way most of the giant 6 hour video guys simply aren't interested in
I liked a lot of what Downpour brought to the table and I really enjoyed it. I'd love to see it remastered with bugs and performance issues ironed out. Downpour deserves more credit than it got.
From what I’ve heard it performs much better via backwards compatibility on Xbox One/Series consoles. But I heartily agree. (Leave it to me make this comment while watching the video, only for Hullett to say the exact same thing right after I post it…)
All it brought to the table was throwing everything out Team Silent crafted to turn Silent Hill into a haunted town that makes people deal with there inner demons, half the ending contradicted events and dialogue and to top if of no one on the design team could answer if it was purgatory or alt dimension because they hated was Team Silent established.
@@robmorris4056 that is legitimately one of the most absurd comments I’ve ever read. Because they “hated” what Team Silent created? Yeah, sure, they literally spent years actively trying to “ruin” a series, listen to yourself, honestly. If you don’t like it, fine, if you want to criticize, fine, but don’t make up vulgar untruths to fit your own narrative, it’s just plain childish.
@@IchiSwagger Okay but have you even looked up anything, Tom Hulett constantly called the old games dated and hard to control and mocked the voice acting in Silent Hill 2 , most of the higher up people didn't like the cult aspect of the early games, but sure i'am lying i mean if you think Troy Baker doing dude bro, Phantom of The Opera chain-smoker edition wasn't proof enough they had no respect for the early games along side all the over voice changes then sorry i can't help you.
@@IchiSwagger They did ruin it though, they did turn Silent hill into a haunted town in Downpour, they did water down the impact Pyramid Head by reusing him over and over, they even ruined Team Silent's work with the HD collection because that was some people's first experience with the series,
they also couldn't even do an origin story right because Origins getting loads wrong about Silent Hill 1 and again adds in lore that makes no sense even contradicting SH1 at want point do you stop lying to yourself and expect the western games and people ruined the series.
Oh my God you got Tomm! I’m a rare one that loves Origins, Homecoming, Shattered Memories, and Downpour. Wasn’t a big fan of the dungeon crawler, but that’s not my genre in general. Thank you for the video, Muse.
Rare but not alone. I love them too.
Kinda like Origins and Homecoming story. The gameplay of Origins was meh! to me and Homecoming's was desastrous. But I can too give them some merites. But I loved Shattered Memories for what they were trying to do.
I just wished they didn't try to make that hybrid of action/horror, or that it wasn't so clumsy in the execution.
Book of memories (Dungeon Crawler) was fun and silly to me. I enjoyed my time playing it but it definitely isn't creepy at all. Just unnerving with some of the visuals. It also made me realize that I have a phobia of seeing grotesque internal organs. Was not able to man up and get through the rest of the game as I couldn't get myself to get pass the 3 "meat" levels. xD
@@DatOneCat you're lucky you can even attempt to play these kinds of games at all! I skip right over horror games because I know from the outset that I won't be able to handle them. That's why I really like channels like this; outside of games I actually really like horror, so I can get the story and character studies without going through the trauma of actually trying to play the games. I nearly broke my ex's PlayStation 3 trying to play Dead Space. I had the controller plugged in to charge while playing, and the part where the fetus monsters jump out at you made me jump literal feet in the air. I nearly pulled the entire console off the shelf with that move and he was not pleased to say the least. I immediately turned off the game and went to bed that game messed me up so bad.
Downpour is in my top 3 in the series, I'm happy SOMEONE is actually covering this entry.
It's way better than it is ever given credit.
It has a better story than the majority of SH games.
Just curious then which of SH1-3 you put Downpour ahead of?
@@BlusViews my Favorite of All Time is SH2, I think thats a pretty standard one for most lol. Second I have SH3 because I really love Heather and I love the way they tie all the plot threads together with SH1. Then Downpour I love for its atmosphere and honestly just the general direction It took its weird (admittedly flawed) plot.
I have SH1 RIGHT on its heels. Its the OG, it started it all, and it's really genuinely unsettling. I just think its marred with some poorly aged elements that make it harder for me to enjoy playing through again, personally. I still try to play it annually though.
And I know you didnt ask, but Id rank the whole series as follows:
SH2
SH3
Downpour
SH1
Shattered Memories
SH4 (I really hate the second half of this game lol)
Origins
Homecoming
always great to get new perspectives and information that isn't the hateful screeching of entrenched fan channels that don't even know what they're talking about
Justice for Downpour.
It was really cool to hear someone from Vatra speaking about this game in the present, I love downpour especially because its rainy atmosphere and the theatre puzzle
Nooooo waaaay, its the man that was thrown under the bus by konami himself
I think it was toxic elements of the fan base that singled him out but Konami definitely weren't quick to correct the record and admit that the issues with the series going forward had a lot to do with their business decisions.
I think that the only reason that the Japanese - made games were as effective was because they weren't expecting quite so much of a return from them. Once SH2 made the series a critical darling it was only a matter of time before the money men started getting excited about milking it for everything it was worth.
This is awesome! Quadruple badass points for interviewing Tomm Hulett. I remember when I first played Downpour, and the suspense of Murphy's character unraveling was absolutely captivating for pretty much the same reasons he mentioned here- if I'm playing a good guy, bad guy, etc. I usually replay Downpour (along with every other entry in the series) at least once or twice a year. I think now is an appropriate time. I think Downpour was honestly the last videogame I was ever hyped for or pre-ordered. (I lean more towards classic games and have a limited budget anyway.) I've had some of the more subtle music stuck in my head, like the town or interior ambience. I've also got a playlist of the WLMN-FM songs. I really wish they'd make another entry that explores some of the characters and themes introduced in Downpour, but with the ridiculous amount of hatred for that game, I can see how it'd be hard to pitch.
I want to thank you for making such great videos about Silent Hill, and its so awesome how you were able to talk to Tom Hewlett and ask him questions about Downpour. At the time it was a game I was really looking forward to, it really seemed like the year of Silent Hill bc Revelation was also going to come out in the same year. I remember spending my free time on the computers at school watching the early footage of Downpour and the trailer. Pre-ordered it and really enjoyed playing it. It still surprises me to hear fans of the series complain about every new entry whilst they still hold onto the first three games as the holy grail, so that meant they weren't a fan of any new content for about 10 years, wonder how they be so bitter for so long. I blame a certain channel for stirring such toxicity in the fandom, but from what you said, its mostly American/western fans who complain the most, the rest of the world is happy enough to play these games.
This sums up the western games,
Silent hill Origins/ gets most things wrong about the origins and should not even exist as you need the events in SH1 to take place for the monsters and other-world to happen.
Homecoming/ doesn't even try to explain how things happen which is fine because it's more of a Saw rip off.
Downpour/ boiled down to a haunted town that can teleport you around and resurrect the dead.
Shattered Memories/ again explains nothing but why it's all a dream.
Book of Memories/ goes one further and makes it canon you just need an object from Silent Hill and you can bring about all the previous monsters and other world.
That's why no fan-base should expect writers that have zero clue about the IP there tasked to work on or don't even like the elements of it (most of the leads on the western games didn't like the cult aspect) you want another sum up they just copied Silent Hill 2 over and over and again where clueless as they thought all the original games monsters where attached to the main protagonist even though that only happened in Silent Hill 2 and not all the monster in that game where attached to James some where attached to Angela, you can say toxic all you like but nothing going to change facts they where unable to make good Silent Hill games.
@@robmorris4056 Why don't you throw in the Pachinko machine or the arcade game whilst you're busy listing off the spin-offs? Can't help but notice you left out PT Silent Hills, the best thing to ever happen in 2014 for any horror fan. And forget what I said before, if you disregard this game, its been almost 20 years since you guys last liked a Silent Hill game so why do you even bother?
I like all the games and think they have something of value to offer, which is all owned and played through by my sister and I (the main entries mind you). The first game says on the back cover that EVERY town has its secrets, I take it to mean not just a locally held conspiracy, but also the possibility that the horrors seen in that town are not exclusive, as we have seen in Ashfield Heights, Shepherd's Glen, and yes, even that city Heather was in in the beginning of the game.
Origins attempts to explore and expand upon the backstory of Alessa whilst also telling the story of its protagonist Travis but I feel like its strongest point is in its straightfoward nature which I suspect to be a result of the rushed development; Silent Hill Homecoming is much more American (which explains the Saw/Hostel references) and convoluted in its symbolism but it does give an explanation as to what's happening, but again, its strongest point is in its personal story of the families; and Silent Hill Downpour is pretty buggy and weak in its transition between locations, but again THE PERSONAL STORY is pretty bangin (there was no resurrection, but guess what did? The resurrection ending in Silent Hill 2).
But you're right, the town of Silent Hill is not a haunted house/town, and I don't think any of the games attempted to treat it as such (except maybe if you look at the literal HAUNTED locations Henry encounters). And yeah the personal monster was only Red Pyramid Head for James, there were other monsters that represented the antagonist (like Silent Hill 1 and 4), and there were monsters that appeared in other games (like the Mandarin in Silent Hill 2 and the Closer in Silent Hill 3).
But I think it is folly to think of the franchise in terms of "these are the rules since a precedent was set and we need to stick to them". Like what Twin Perfect assumes, and is missing the point. The earlier games weren't good because, lets say, the ambiguous other worlds had a set of rules that were followed, or the monsters represented this or that. But rather Silent Hill is an experience that is scary and mysterious, its staples of monsters and the town itself is secondary, and that's what PT understood and presented so brilliantly. Its also what would make you describe a scary, emotional movie as "Silent Hill-eque", an example would be its inspiration, Jacob's Ladder, its a perfect Silent Hill film if you thought if it that way. If you want a good Silent Hill game, you're gonna need a good game first and foremost, and one that is scary, and you need to let go of the die-and-hard rules you think it needs to follow, bc it doesn't need to follow any of that. It can work as a standalone and still be a good Silent Hill game.
It is nice to see Downpour get some love these days, it feels like it's trying to do something unique, like Silent Hill 2 it's less focused on the cult and more on the characters within Silent Hill, the town being used as a mirror to reflect the flaws back on the people who stumble into it.
It's so cool you got him for a short interview! Keep up the good work!
Thank you, such a great interview & insight into a really great survival horror, often unfairly judged, we love Silent Hill Downour very much, thank you for showcasing it, with such fascinating info.
Thank you for making this. This game is very underrated in my opinion.
How cool you actually got Tom to join your video. The last bit of the video had me laughing. 😂😂
Aaaaaahhhh wath atractive and good looking group of men worked at Vatra!!
I cant belive its been 10 years since the last Silent Hill. Downpour was one of the most inspired SH games with the best athmosphere and i dont remember too many glitches going on tough the combat was pretty awkard. I loved Murphy, but i was sad the other characters were ingored completelly (like the nun or the postman). Storyline could have been better butthis was Silent Hill finally heading to the rigth direction.
Thank you as usual Muse. I remember the movie theater quest so well.
Thank you also to Tomm for my first silent hill game I played independently.
I didn't enjoy Downpur, but that doesn't mean it's a bad game. And your research on the game and issues the team behind it experienced, really puts a lot of stuff in to another perspective. And now.. I kinda wanna try the game out again, because I see things in a different light.
Never stop bringing positivity into the fandom Muse! It´s so necessary, and I´m saying this as a bitter old fan
Why,
Silent hill Origins/ gets most things wrong about the origins and should not even exist as you need the events in SH1 to take place for the monsters and other-world can happen.
Homecoming/ doesn't even try to explain how things happen which is fine because it's more of a Saw rip off.
Downpour/ boiled down to a haunted town that can teleport you around and resurrect the dead.
Shattered Memories/ again explains nothing but why it's all a dream.
Book of Memories/ goes one further and makes it canon you just need an object from Silent Hill and you can bring about all the previous monsters and other world.
Real nice video, thanks so much.
Although I'm not from the Czech Republic, but from Hungary, I think our situation is very similar.
The fact that most games are not available in our language does not mean that most games are not known here in Central-Eastern Europe. We played the European version of Silent Hill 1 back in 1999, and since there was no in-game translation, but knowledge of the text was essential for solving the puzzles, unofficial walkthroughs were published in Hungarian. So we played the game while reading a book or a magazine. Then, of course, as children we learned English quite quickly, mainly from the video games themselves.
Great coverage on downpour
another amazing vid! i was so excited when i saw this on my feed, i almost missed my meeting 😅 i really love your silent hill vids in general and i wanna say thanks for helping me view downpour in a more positive light! i was kind of disappointed the first time i experienced it, but looking back at it and watching your vids, ive found a whole new appreciation for it. cant wait for more 😊💖
Meeting a maker of your favorite game must be a dream come true.
I'm happy for you Muse.
That said, it was a missed opportunity not to talk about Bloodstained.
Also the Void was incredible. I kept running up the stair case and felt a sense of anxiety and dread for such a long time.
This video breaks my heart.
This is am awesome insight into a game that is very special to me and my introduction to the Silent Hill series.
Amazing video! So great to hear what Tomm has to say about the production of Downpour. It certainly inspiring me to pick the game back up again and finally finish it! Keep up the great work Muse! =D
Why they stripped out everything that made the original, and turn it into a haunted town, that can teleport you around and resurrect the dead.
Being from New England, you can absolutely see all that on a crappy diners menu.
Really appreciate all the work and passion you put into these silent hill videos. Downpour is one of my favorite games. I really like the radios in there and have tracked a few of the more known songs like if I had a boat by James Vincent McMurray( that last names wrong but I'm having a major brain fart on this) and silver stallion by the highway men but most of the other music on there I assume is licensed I just can't seem to find the artists names. If you got any insight I'd appreciate it.
I just bought this game last week it seems pretty cool.
Tomm used to interact often with the fan base on Hell Descent forums and SH Community forums, he was always very enthusiastic about the games and I'd have loved to see him make more, but glad he's happy at Wayforward. It always annoyed me that he got a lot of toxic hate and harrasment, thanks to TwinPerfect. Tomm did a great job on the games he captained.
Im czech and thats partially why Downpour is so dissapointing to me because i live in a very small town yet there's all these reminders everywhere of a violent history that happend here and i feel like this would influence the game's atmosphere heavily yet the atmosphere feels i think more shallow then all the other silent hill games
So glad to see Downpour getting some love! It felt weird to think I liked it as much as I did, but consensus seemed to be that it was trash
It's why I've always considered it to be a hidden gem for the series, it's among the greats and the team knew exactly what they were doing.
There was only 1 aspect of the game I didn'r like and it was just the UI, it was just too grungey, too over the top, really didn't need all that weird black oiling animation, the font was gratuitous.
But I love it all the same, if by some miracle it gets ported to PC, I would love to mod it.
They have zero clue what they where doing most of the endings contradict the story, and they boiled the town down to a haunted town that can teleport you around and resurrect the dead that's as far away from Silent Hill as you can get.
I never understood why Tomm Hullett was singled out by some fans for every negative aspect they would find in the western SHs.
If his wiki profile is anything to go by, he did us a favour by discarding and disapproving of other members' ideas like Homecoming featuring an ultimate battle between Josh and Alessa. I personally cringe at the thought lol
I recalled TheGreatDebate had interviewed him, and he recalled that being the representative to Konami in many interviews and kiosks had set him up as one…
He was a senior associate producer, which I could imagine every ideas he had to withstand all that cringe or an unpredictable event that would occur to him and SH.
Tomm railed so hard against Pyramid Head being in Homecoming they gave him busy work for a few months to shut him up and only brought him back because someone else left the project.
@@ianfinrir8724 I remember he wanted The Butcher from Origins to return…
It’s a Silent Hill game with a complete different approach to SH. It’s like they set a new Silent Hill, new rules, new otherworld, new everything.
They had some good people working on the game. The guys that worked on the Mafia games are legit.
Super underrated game
I love your videos. I know you mostly do silent hill analysis stuff but I think it be cool to hear your perspective on the game Martha is Dead. I just beat it and still have many questions.
I have never played Downpour, but I own it and I intend to dive into it. I was scouring this comment section and there's plenty of defenders coming in to show their love for it and based on that alone I'm willing to go into it with an open mind and see what it's all about.
Being honest I bought it day one with that "I wont like it because is not team silent" mentality... and ended up getting the platinum😅! Really appreciated The Room's Easter Egg and few years later a lot of my friends told me "You know what... I think I was to harsh on that game... it wasn't that bad at all" *And I'm talking hardcore fans* I think there's not much original approach you can make to the lore after The room in terms of the cult so they had to go with the psychological approach of SH2... Silent Hill: The Short Message did the same thing and it was good!
Tomm Hulett is not a bad dude yet people treat him like he's an axe murderer or something. A lot of people don't like the post Team Silent era and that's fine, but 1, Tomm wasn't the only person who worked on those games, and 2, it just doesn't warrant the sheer amount of vitriol some people have over it.
All that food sounds good tho
I never need any Silent Hill game to make sense or be fully explained to me. It's not a story in game form to me. SH is the very definition of 'mindfuck' to me. It's an experience that disturbs me, unsettles me, confuses me and more than anything - it gets to me with a wide range of emotions with the character's and what they've been through. Some emotions felt while playing are deeper and long lasting than others. The emotions I felt when playing make the games unforgettable to me and no doubt other fans. I definitely appreciate the ambiguity, symbolism, atmosphere & puzzles typically featured in Silent Hill games. I never understood why so many SH fans hated Downpour right off the bat. None of the Silent Hill games I've played are bad to me - the only ones I haven't played are Alchemilla & Book of Memories. I've heard bad things about those two. If anyone has played those two, please let me know what they were like.
fuck yeah
TBH I really like the fresh take that wasn't the fire/blood/metal motif that has dominated the series. I did wish for a few more monster varieties. The train sequence legitimately freaked me out. If Silent Hill is to survive (TBD), It needs fresh takes and new ideas. I often think about different people being affected by the world and, even more fascinating, what two people in the town would see at the same time. In fact, before my money person flaked off to do American ninja warrior, I was working on a short movie that would play on a Silent Hill type town that a couple happen into while fleeing the authorities.
Oh snap!!!
I hope you ask him when silent hill is returning or even if.... considering they don't even want the website...
I recently played through this game it's pretty damn decent.
The only part I can say I truly say I disliked about Downpour was the chase scenes with the Void. Everything else I either like or was neutral on.
I actually enjoyed (generally speaking) Homecoming and Downpour. They were 100% mediocre games, but for some reason i still enjoyed playing through them. They definitely didn't feel like original silent hill games, more like licensed games or something like that. Similarly like when they make movies off of a game franchise and it feels nothing like the original content, but just uses visual themes and makes something else out of those things.
Ironically i think that is what holds them back. Its like "okay we got a spooky town, its dark and grimey. Check. Now it'll be like silent hill". Rather than making their own unique work of art, their own unique expression to create a visceral dark atmosphere that will stand time.
What kind of diner serves lobster? Maine diners. ^_^
In north carolina, it would be: burgers burgers burgers, bbq, maybe some ribs, burgers. also possible a lot of variations on breakfast
Ah yes, one of the last sh games. Not surprising, honestly
I hated that thing that chased heather. I have a HARD time with the controls in that game and running fast and precise was hell.
Hey guys, after 12 years, today, I finally figured out that your health is displayed under "Game statistics". I know Konami US forced Vatra to make this game the mess that it was, but why were there things like this?? I played this game on launch and got so mad I just gave up. But stuff like this makes absolutely no sense. I found the pistol and now I have to drop the nailgun to use a melee weapon? Why can I store it away anymore? Am I missing something?? LOL
The more he explained the process and decisions that were made during the making of the game, the more it makes sense why the game flopped, respectfully. Having "sure" and "I guess it's fine" approach to beloved serious is almost insulting. Normally, people would not have this nonchalant attitude to something they cherish.
That's a little unfair. When you're working long distance on such expensive projects that you can't just redo every time something's not exactly what you want, you have to accept what is, and work from there. It's not about not caring, its about being realistic with expectations. Also, the game didn't flop - it actually sold well, it's merely the attitude in fandom circles at the time was very polarized. We all know why...
@@thegamingmuse Muse I agree and I am a big fan of this game.
@@thegamingmuse the game sold well? I read back in the day about just 500.000 copy sold, but it must have been not accurate then. I am curious about it .
@@thegamingmuse Maybe so. like you said they had other factors that hindered the process. but still, I don't think my observation is too far off. I don't have any attachment to the SH series, so as someone who's outside the circle, I think even if the game sold well, we all know it didn't elevate the series nor it was as well received as the previous entries.
@ODdm3 Its like what muse said, its less of a "he doesn't care" to "he can't micromanage everything he just needs to have realistic expectations". The vibe Tom Hulett gave sounds a lot like what other gaming developers and coders behave if you watch their videos on making games, like if something's buggy but works "its good enough for now". There's a lot of that.
Poor silent hill... Riding on the success of sh2 that game was lightning in a bottle
I really like this game. It wasn't perfect but I think it was a victim of snobbery from legacy games media and some fans against the concept of western developers working on the Silent Hill franchise.
Yes because modern western media totally respects the source material, isn't full of plot holes and doesn't have bad writing, no ones against western Silent Hill games, as long as you get a team that respects the original work, understand the series inside and out and doesn't bad mouth the original games, all things the western games did along side the people behind the games.
You can sum up Downpour in two words (haunted town), gone was everything that made up the first four games all we got was a crappy western horror game about a haunted town i mean what idiot thinks roller-coasters, water slides and basically fantasy levels with non euclidean levels add up to scary.
I really think thgamingmuse should make a video on what you just said, bc even today people like you will still call the later entries of Silent Hill "western" games, despite the entire video talking about the game developer, Vatra, being Czech and how it influenced the game.
@@nottechytutorials Western is just a stand in for not made by the original team, and if you found any Czech horror influences or anything related to that culture in the game good for you, but your ignoring the leads and director where mainly from America and the writer for the comic where the character Howard Blackwood comes from (which makes no sense because you would of needed the events of Silent Hill 1 to make his character work as he does) also worked on the game so another American (who also doesn't understand Silent Hill) the only reason Czech was picked because it was the cheapest option there culture was the last thing on konami's mind.
@@robmorris4056 Boi I could argue with you all day long so you better you pick your battles. But I'll just address your first point for now:
"Western is just a stand in for not made by the original team"
And by "original team" do you mean "Team Silent"? Thegamingmuse made a video on that you could check out, or if you made a spreadsheet to see who went on to the next game, you'd find the "core members" did not carry over in the same positions they had previously (exception is Akira Yamaoka).
Downpour is terrible
Woah. It's the guy who killed the franchise.
I enjoy playing the games with my 14 year old German Shepherd Fur baby gamemuse. ♥️🐕🦺🤓😉😇🎮♥️