most private servers have 33% spellpower scaling for shadowguard. truth is 26,7% if i remember correct and 10% for touch of weakness (which on most privateservers scales even more wrongly at ~43%). so lets say u have 500 spellpower: 116 (base dmg) + 0,267*500 = 249 -> impacted by your shadow talents -> 249*1,15(shadowform)*1,1(darkness)*1,15(full shadow weaving) it will hit for 363 tow for undeads= (64*base+0,1*500)*1,15*1,1*1,15 =166dmg with 500sp and full shadow talents
Thanks for the info John G, however may I ask what is the source for the 26,7%? I looked but could not find anything about it. Also, is there any video anywhere showcasing this? Cheers,
i hatew how people compared ot to private servers, that shit was NOT blizzard. lol you CANNOT take info from a private server and compare it to wow, 100% different people running the game, for all you know the private servers were changed lolol. you DO NOT remember back in 2004 2005 when the game was out nobody can vividly remember that... people just mad their PS chars mean nothing lmao
Back in retail, Shadowguard has a 100% scaling coeff (the same as Lightning Shield!), split into the 3 orbs, so each scales at 33%. The reason it hits so hard is +10% shadow dmg talent stacks with +15% shadowform and +15% shadow debuff. Lots of multiplication. Berserk + Manaburn absolutely wreck healers. Troll is the superior priest for PvP and PvE.
I always kind of thought it was an extra incentive for people to roll enough priests. I played two priests to max, one on feenix the other on light's hope. Both times went night elf without thinking about racials and what a face palm that was.
They kept in the spirit of this with Paladins in the Burning crusade. Blood elves getting seal of blood, Alliance paladins getting seal of vengeance. Bloodlust and heroism as well, but that was just a name change for the exact same ability.
Really informative once again Ebbn, however im now finding it super hard what class to pick! Priest or druid hmmmm not long to go now for classic cant wait!
I was in a pvserver and there was a shadow priest guy who said he was theory crafting shadow spec and actually told me with math how troll is superior as shadow for like half an hour. Was going to roll one but they seem weak with their short distance in wpvp. Will go rogue instead
Another gr8 and informative video. Wonder how many people youve afflicted with neuroligical indecisiveness with choosing a class now :p How do you move the unitframes of pfui?
Tbh yeah trolls are better, IMO it’s a mage gnome type thing. Gnomes are there best Mage but most people hate how they look. Race might be better or a little better situationally but it what you prefer. I can’t stand how it looks playing a troll ( like the camera view) it feels uncomfortable and I live undead animations. It’s what you prefer when it comes down to it
@Yazarch Liseed Against the non existant locks on alliance? Psychic scream is a lot of mana and you can just trinket out of it and the warrior intimidating shout while having a good chance to stun. True Dwarves are insane unless you want to sit around in shadow meld and grief people
I knew this, i always found it strange why so many people just roll UD without even considering troll.. I guess wotf makes ud a good choice for any class, but honestly for shadowpriest i'd go troll all day.
Oh Devouring plague is especially good against noob who doesnt expect it, but easily dispellable by any priest or dwarf stone form, or even jungle remedy you can easily farm in lower zone of STV , oh and its about 900ish mana? to be instant dispelled. you'll think twice before using it and wasting your mana. on the other hands, thinks about all the usefullness of Troll raciall.. all the times.... gotta love this blackout proc
That is a really good point. Everyone things devouring plauge but some classes can dispell it, i believe with 1st aid you can craft jungle remedy or something to dispell disease. Shadowguard does decent damage and very low mana cost. I rolled a ud female s priest in bc but with i woulda went with a troll now. O well i dont play anymore.
It is not only this, but SG also does MORE damage over a short period of time. more than doubling your damage that you do with just SWP if you keep reupping it when it has used up 3 charges. DP heals for for damage but the ticks are like 200 damage, versus 400 and more with SG, while you get healed from SG too, just not as much per tick. But if you look at a fight where someone is constantly attacking you with dots, or attacks that take off charges within the internal 3s cooldown, you are looking at 6-7 seconds for a SG to deal its full damage and healing. Lets go with 7 seconds so you have some room for error and the person not reupping SG when it has worn off. That means you get around 3 Shadowguards into duration of 1 DP, which means around tripple or more damage, while you get healed for just a l ittle less compared to a fully running DP. And make no mistake, if this is a one on one fight, then SG plus SWP with a mindblast and a flay is often enough to finish off people who are unable to dispell. It lasts long enough for you to apply SG, SWP, Shield up and kite while conserving mana, maybe wand a bit, to even go into 5 second rule territory until you can re-apply SG to keep the reactive damage rolling. Rogues always hate it when they basically kill themselves on you that way. Same goes for warlocks, and their pets because SG allows you to play defensively against them, use dispells and just outlast them while you kill them and their pet over time. No need to try and burst them down as quickly as possible anymore. Shield up, SG, SWP, wait for the time to put in some mindblasts where possible, and if they used up their fear DR, berserk and manaburn. Oh, and something I am not 100% sure about, but might be just yet another cool thing about it : Shadowguard can crit, both on the reactive damage it does, and the vampiric embrace heal you get. I am not entirely sure if VE can crit on dot ticks, never really checked, but that is another thing to keep in mind.
14:16 mage cast a 877 frostbolt and takes 318 shadow guard damage to the face. with improved vampiric up you would get about 94 life back 877-94 = math shadowguard is actually pretty good.
Hey dude, what do you think about UD vs Troll for TBC? TBC classic is coming 100%, and i can't decide which race to go for, purely pvp and spriest spec. I'm thinking about pushing hard with my mates in 2s and 3s i've never played tbc and don't have enough knowledge do make decision on UD vs Troll. I see pros and cons in both but what worries me is ''What if shadowguard doesn't proc blackout and it's just wasted''. We all know that warlocks are the most problematic in arena, can't they use their pet to eat your shadowguard? Wouldn't will of the forsaken be much more valuable in pushing in 3v3 to counter pesky warlocks? I'm thinking of doing 2v2 with a rogue or lock and in 3s shadowplay as i was told is the strongest 3vs3 comp for spriest and the one who has the highest chance of pushing super high. I do think dev plague might slightly be more valuable in 2v2, with shadowguard/hex being more valuable for 3v3 but i'm not sure. Once again, don't have experience with TBC, only from what i've seen on youtube/forums.
Its a tough call really. The priest racials seem a bit pointless with healing specs but the troll hex might come in handy for PvP. Berserking would be good for PvE and will have its use in PvP but would not be as strong as the undead wotf. BUT saying that, blackout is a tier 1 talent. So a troll healing priest for PvP could possibly look at putting 5 points into that which would make Shadowguard useful in keeping players off of them. I haven't seen this been done, its just my nogging thinking outside of the box so it could do with testing or comment. But with priests lack of mobility it seems like it would certainly help. Hell i think i'll try it myself now! XD
That depends. In a premade environment as Disc Priest I would always go for UD just because WotF has much more clutch potential. However, if you want to play a little more self reliant and offensive, you can also run tri-spec, where Trolls get a lot of advantages due to SG proccing stun/weaving. In PvE Troll is the better healer.
Looking forward to seeing fellow troll shadow priests out on the battlefield, throwing out hexes and having a laugh while the alliance gets their faces melted. It'll be glorious.
The comments on troll vs undead priests I've seen are pretty fascinating. I have a feeling that there may be a little bit more defending of undead and their racials because that's what a lot of people did back in vanilla, and troll priests were relatively unpopular. I think a lot of people are expecting people to play classic like it's 2004/5 again when people didn't know any better - but good players know that they should be dispelling devouring plague if they can instead of eating the damage, or using Jungle Remedy or Purification potions, and any dwarves are going to use Stoneform to remove it, and now you've just wasted either your Inner Focus or just under 1k mana. And if you're facing bad players who aren't doing those things... you're going to win anyway (and Shadowguard will help you do comparable damage if you restack it). In some situations, it may be better than Shadowguard... but not many. Will of the Forsaken is the big racial undead has over troll and is admittedly really great, but Berserking is also very good for mana burns or heals.
wow man never thought of this. im definately running priest but im so torn as to what race. (my next alt is druid:) ) i like the aesthetics of human but undead will and now this info on trolls has me rreallly confused!
shadowguard is all good but pservers seems to have wrong SP ratio for it. videos from 2006 show its dmg being similar to SW:P and Wowhead says it has 27% SP ratio per orb. while pserver one has at least 37%. not the end of the world, but still kinda sad.
Why would anyone avoid the barrens as horde? SOOO many quests there, and ones that send you to 4 other zones... If you are worried about other people, just play faster.
what are your thoughts on the race for TBC though. if Blizzard opens up a character copy option to a new TBC Classic servers... shadow priests were a highly desired class in raids...
It's intended, did it back in vanilla. Blackout procs on all your shadow damage spells. So both Shadowguard and Touch of Weakness had a chance to proc it. Shadowguard obviously had 3 charges and ToW just one.
Or you could just use Inner Focus for a Mind Blast/Greater Heal and actually profit from the +25% crit it gives. Or use it to buff your entire party with Fortitude after a ress in bg. DP/IF synergy is a non argument for me since IF is so versatile but cannot be used for anything else than DP on an Undead. WotF is strong indeed, no counter argument to that. Most people just don't take Hex into consideration tho. It is absolutely versatile and powerful for an almost 0 mana ability. Also, the DP spell power scaling is terrible since it is a life leech effect... The better your gear gets, the more awesome SG gets compared to DP. tl;dr: I see how people prefer Undead for their looks, but as a Shadowpriest Troll racials are just better and there is no way of logically arguing otherwise.
Great video. Just rolled a troll priest and already loving it. Two things I noticed: will of the forsaken isn't really discussed as another upside for undead priests, and trolls also have beastslaying and regeneration. On a priest that will likely have a good amount of spirit (assuming you don't have BIS all PVP gear which is int/sta +mp5 mostly), a passive 11% health regeneation in combat seems like a decent passive healing effect on you. It has actually saved me a few times up to level 10. granted, that's low level but it's better to have in combat than underwater breathing.
I would say Troll is overall stronger. But Undead 1v1 will poop on anyone not able to dispel DP. It's just so much damage and healing. But mages can block it, priests and paladins can dispel it. Dwarfs can stoneform it. Also its 2019 and not 2005, people will know about it and dispel it, not just backpeddle and die.
Any update on this comment from @UCFIXBeMXwC_1U43jgCdJO1g? "shadowguard is all good but pservers seems to have wrong SP ratio for it. videos from 2006 show its dmg being similar to SW:P and Wowhead says it has 27% SP ratio per orb. while pserver one has at least 37%..." Thanks.
I dunno about this. As someone who pvp’d a lot in classic, I don’t remember too many high ranking troll shadow priests. I do remember a metric ton of undead shadow priests. I don’t think you want to plan your pvp strategy around getting hit. In classic you’re going to get blown up by warriors and rogues and they’re just not going to take a lot of damage from this ability to be meaningful before you die.
People didnt know any better in classic. Just because troll priests were unpopular then doesn't really mean anything. People back then also didnt know they should dispel devouring plague so they just ate damage.
well that's because the game had only been out for like a few years back then. this is 15 years worth of evidence and testing on classic/vanilla servers.
Troll priest racials are, by far, superior to undead priest racials. Undead's only saving grace is WotF, which I agree is very strong. To be honest though, you can't go wrong with either race. Pick what you like best, and have fun.
@@omnignarusist yeah but all dwarves can cure diseases with stoneform and pally and priest have cure disease. So its going to be dispelled against many alliance players.
I was typing a comment asking if this was tested on beta, but before I finish you go ahead and tell me exactly what I wanted to hear :P I would definitively try a troll, as I already did the whole "evil/insane undead shadowpriest" RP style and Shadowguard aside I quite like trolls (the class at least).... the only issue of course being that I am rolling alliance and not even a priest (for a main at least) so not quite relevant for me despite being very interesting to have pointed out. I was quite surprised at how hard Shadowguard can really hit, you could make low geared melees commit suicide with a couple of those in a row :P
Problem is the looks. Undead Male for me is just the core of vanilla, they have the best animation and just fits me better. However, troll female is also quite neat, their casting animation is enjoyable to watch. Troll Male though.. ugh.
Troll males look like they walk slow but yah I like the female troll animations and model size. Orc female is okay for some classes also. Had a female troll hunter in the 30-39 pvp bracket in tbc.
i never understood why so many priest players choosed undead back in 2004... i think because Will of the Forsaken had a 20 second duration ( now it's nerfed to only 5) so even if you have it you will get feared after these 5 seconds 100%, every single player in pvp with a brain will run away or whatever and you sit there with your 2 min cooldown, Devouring Plague is the same story... let's say you face a paladin/priest/dwarf race or a person with jungle remedy.... it will just be dispelled.... you just don't pick undead in 2019. Troll is the superior race for shadow priest in 2019... DAZ DINGO! YES YES YES YES........... YES!
couple things not mentioned in this video: - shadowguard is best compared against devaring plague in which case DP is more consistent, you dont have to wait to get hit for it to do damage. it also has higher scaling if John G's comment is correct and it heals you for the full amount. - tow doesnt have an internal cooldown you can keep reapplying it meaning that against a rogue or fury warrior or even druid you can watch them kill themselves just by spamming it also if you spam it the damage is on par with shadowguard cuz of its 3 sec internal cd. (wether scaling is p server like or as john g said) - cannibalize vs -20% heal debuff unless you're in a BG cannibalize is more useful with that said heres what i'd say; if you plan on pvp'ing solo undead is better, you have more survability and highest dmg output to melt people. if you wanna do lots of BGs or group pvp troll is better with their debuff and less mana waste. they might be better to farm with too.
if you gonna reply something longer than i wrote at least separate your text so its easier to reply. - if you're gonna be constantly reapplying tow its cuz a rogue, fury warrior or druid is on your ass and you're waiting for shield CD martyrdom to proc to finally cast something in other words same cost as mind flay, same dmg (cuz you'll probly miss 2/3 channeling tick) and you dont run the risk of getting interupted / silenced. - the first line in my comment states "couple things *not* mentioned in this video" alliance having defensive dispels was said so idk why you're commenting that, im adding to the video and giving an opinion at the end not debating shit. - it increases black out proc by 10% every 3 sec again that was said in the video again - you kinda contradict yourself here first you say you gonna be constantly hit then say over the course of a long battle, the two dont go togheter. but either way in a long battle mana becomes priority number 1 you dont have any to spare on sg, in fact at that point you're probly better of dropping SF and support healing or mana burning the other team cuz spriests dont do long battles even if only using MF and MB. hell even MC'ing one of their healer at that point is better since long battle = healer keeping people alive and MC = 1 healer less + GDC on another to dispel it + disorient their team somewhat. plus this is a BG scenario only, solo pvp battles are never gonna be long and since i said trolls for BG you're debating me for nothing on this one. - good against rogue was said in the vid - said in the video and as i said in solo pvp 20% healing debuff is irrelavent since you got silence which is why i have troll for group pvp where thats useful - sg works like lightning shield it has an internal CD of 3 sec even if 10 niggas are gangbanging you same as a DP tick so again it cannot be more consistent on single target unless the target is prolonging the fight. in group pvp i guess you could argue its more consistent but also more spread out, you dont have control over who gets the dmg if you're trying to focus certain enemies on the team, especially if you go in the BG as spriest.
The analysis on hex of weakness is off. You simply don't have the globals to spare to use it. Other than that great job. I heard somewhere that shadowguard has 100% spellpower coefficient. That's probably not true.
@@aaronh.917 That's probably what he means. Even if it's just 5 v 5 you're gonna stand there for 7,5 seconds doing nothing than spam that shit while your team gets killed.
Игры
most private servers have 33% spellpower scaling for shadowguard. truth is 26,7% if i remember correct and 10% for touch of weakness (which on most privateservers scales even more wrongly at ~43%).
so lets say u have 500 spellpower:
116 (base dmg) + 0,267*500 = 249 -> impacted by your shadow talents -> 249*1,15(shadowform)*1,1(darkness)*1,15(full shadow weaving) it will hit for 363
tow for undeads= (64*base+0,1*500)*1,15*1,1*1,15 =166dmg with 500sp and full shadow talents
Wow, very nice info John!
Thanks for the info John G, however may I ask what is the source for the 26,7%? I looked but could not find anything about it. Also, is there any video anywhere showcasing this? Cheers,
what does it mean in english pls
Hjoldahr M lmao
i hatew how people compared ot to private servers, that shit was NOT blizzard. lol you CANNOT take info from a private server and compare it to wow, 100% different people running the game, for all you know the private servers were changed lolol. you DO NOT remember back in 2004 2005 when the game was out nobody can vividly remember that... people just mad their PS chars mean nothing lmao
Back in retail, Shadowguard has a 100% scaling coeff (the same as Lightning Shield!), split into the 3 orbs, so each scales at 33%. The reason it hits so hard is +10% shadow dmg talent stacks with +15% shadowform and +15% shadow debuff. Lots of multiplication.
Berserk + Manaburn absolutely wreck healers. Troll is the superior priest for PvP and PvE.
Sick
Having a heal reduction in 1v1 situations is also a bonus
Great vid! finally trolls get some love they deserve!
It's pretty neat how Priests have their own unique ability depending on what race you pick. I wish every class got the same treatment.
I always kind of thought it was an extra incentive for people to roll enough priests.
I played two priests to max, one on feenix the other on light's hope. Both times went night elf without thinking about racials and what a face palm that was.
@@k.o.hakala2112 shadowmeld and mind control would be fun to mess with, but other than that NE has some lame racials
They kept in the spirit of this with Paladins in the Burning crusade. Blood elves getting seal of blood, Alliance paladins getting seal of vengeance. Bloodlust and heroism as well, but that was just a name change for the exact same ability.
I read somewhere that they had planned to do that. NE warriors were going to have demon hunter skills! Too bad they didn't follow through with that.
Shadowguard is hugely underrated, great vid!
Great video, Bezerking mana burn is also usefull
yes, good point!
Genius. Didn't think of that.
Does it proc if the shadow damage is absorbed. Say the opposing target would be under the effect of a shadow protection potion, or power word: shield?
Just subbed great video man thanks. Can't wait for classic.
planning to make a priest alt or main for classic Ebn? Thinking I'm settling on priest for classic main and roll a druid down the road.
Love your vids. Keep making more and i will watch them!
Thanks TopHop! :)
Really informative once again Ebbn, however im now finding it super hard what class to pick! Priest or druid hmmmm not long to go now for classic cant wait!
I was in a pvserver and there was a shadow priest guy who said he was theory crafting shadow spec and actually told me with math how troll is superior as shadow for like half an hour. Was going to roll one but they seem weak with their short distance in wpvp. Will go rogue instead
Rogue is a good pick too!
As someone who loves troll priests feels good to see everyone noticing their coolness
Just started a Troll priest today on a PVP server... was wondering if I picked wrong race but feel better now.
thanks for the thoughts how abilities get used and get countered in practice
Do you've got a addon list and/or UI we could download? :)
Another gr8 and informative video. Wonder how many people youve afflicted with neuroligical indecisiveness with choosing a class now :p
How do you move the unitframes of pfui?
I was going UD Priest....
Not sure on the unit frames Vlaka, never used pfui :(
Hey what is the add-on you use for scrolling text? Thanks
You changed my mind. Also consider using Rank 1 Psychic Scream if you're not doing it already for 1v1s
Oh boy, I want to play a troll shadow priest now!
What would be the best talent allocation for a troll shadow priest?
Which unit frames are you using? Does anyone know?
Love it even if it’s not about Druids
Common bro, druid get no love already lol
@@JDell401 i think he meant he loves druids more.. and loves this video even if its not about his bigger love, druids.
I’m gonna go undead
*watches this video*
CHANGE MY MIND
Yeah ive been told by many that undead were the best. Maybe in pvp it can be argued but troll seems a lot better.
Tbh yeah trolls are better, IMO it’s a mage gnome type thing. Gnomes are there best Mage but most people hate how they look. Race might be better or a little better situationally but it what you prefer. I can’t stand how it looks playing a troll ( like the camera view) it feels uncomfortable and I live undead animations. It’s what you prefer when it comes down to it
@Yazarch Liseed Against the non existant locks on alliance? Psychic scream is a lot of mana and you can just trinket out of it and the warrior intimidating shout while having a good chance to stun. True Dwarves are insane unless you want to sit around in shadow meld and grief people
I knew this, i always found it strange why so many people just roll UD without even considering troll.. I guess wotf makes ud a good choice for any class, but honestly for shadowpriest i'd go troll all day.
devouring plague is a pretty good cd.........
Oh Devouring plague is especially good against noob who doesnt expect it, but easily dispellable by any priest or dwarf stone form, or even jungle remedy you can easily farm in lower zone of STV , oh and its about 900ish mana? to be instant dispelled. you'll think twice before using it and wasting your mana. on the other hands, thinks about all the usefullness of Troll raciall.. all the times.... gotta love this blackout proc
Would you still go Troll if you were going to play a non-shadow priest?
That is a really good point. Everyone things devouring plauge but some classes can dispell it, i believe with 1st aid you can craft jungle remedy or something to dispell disease. Shadowguard does decent damage and very low mana cost. I rolled a ud female s priest in bc but with i woulda went with a troll now. O well i dont play anymore.
It is not only this, but SG also does MORE damage over a short period of time. more than doubling your damage that you do with just SWP if you keep reupping it when it has used up 3 charges. DP heals for for damage but the ticks are like 200 damage, versus 400 and more with SG, while you get healed from SG too, just not as much per tick. But if you look at a fight where someone is constantly attacking you with dots, or attacks that take off charges within the internal 3s cooldown, you are looking at 6-7 seconds for a SG to deal its full damage and healing. Lets go with 7 seconds so you have some room for error and the person not reupping SG when it has worn off.
That means you get around 3 Shadowguards into duration of 1 DP, which means around tripple or more damage, while you get healed for just a l ittle less compared to a fully running DP. And make no mistake, if this is a one on one fight, then SG plus SWP with a mindblast and a flay is often enough to finish off people who are unable to dispell.
It lasts long enough for you to apply SG, SWP, Shield up and kite while conserving mana, maybe wand a bit, to even go into 5 second rule territory until you can re-apply SG to keep the reactive damage rolling. Rogues always hate it when they basically kill themselves on you that way. Same goes for warlocks, and their pets because SG allows you to play defensively against them, use dispells and just outlast them while you kill them and their pet over time. No need to try and burst them down as quickly as possible anymore. Shield up, SG, SWP, wait for the time to put in some mindblasts where possible, and if they used up their fear DR, berserk and manaburn.
Oh, and something I am not 100% sure about, but might be just yet another cool thing about it : Shadowguard can crit, both on the reactive damage it does, and the vampiric embrace heal you get. I am not entirely sure if VE can crit on dot ticks, never really checked, but that is another thing to keep in mind.
If only Undead weren’t so cool.
I know :( they are the best looking race on horde in my opinion
Ebbnflow depends on class imo
When I saw troll warrior in raid I was jealous I played orc :P
@@Ebbnflow I dunno I prefer female orcs of looks, undead look like you would sneeze on their skinny legs and they would break, not every scary.
I prefer trolls, undead are for emo teenagers.
@@BabaBugman Trolls are for hipsters meanwhile I know more people with an actual career that play undead.
I'm still scarred from the duel against Seren xd, great video brotha!
Haha, yeah 1v1s against priests is the worst things ever as a druid :(((
Thanks! Completely forget about hex!
Can you please, make a list of your adddons and whats that cool UI
How did you miss their mortal strike?
Hex of something i forget
14:16 mage cast a 877 frostbolt and takes 318 shadow guard damage to the face. with improved vampiric up you would get about 94 life back 877-94 = math shadowguard is actually pretty good.
You will melt faces as a troll shadow priest
Hey dude, what do you think about UD vs Troll for TBC? TBC classic is coming 100%, and i can't decide which race to go for, purely pvp and spriest spec. I'm thinking about pushing hard with my mates in 2s and 3s i've never played tbc and don't have enough knowledge do make decision on UD vs Troll. I see pros and cons in both but what worries me is ''What if shadowguard doesn't proc blackout and it's just wasted''. We all know that warlocks are the most problematic in arena, can't they use their pet to eat your shadowguard? Wouldn't will of the forsaken be much more valuable in pushing in 3v3 to counter pesky warlocks? I'm thinking of doing 2v2 with a rogue or lock and in 3s shadowplay as i was told is the strongest 3vs3 comp for spriest and the one who has the highest chance of pushing super high. I do think dev plague might slightly be more valuable in 2v2, with shadowguard/hex being more valuable for 3v3 but i'm not sure. Once again, don't have experience with TBC, only from what i've seen on youtube/forums.
Hey which addons are u using?
What do you think of troll vs undead as a healing priest? Is hex of weakness worth giving up wotf? If I didnt miss out on other key differences
Its a tough call really. The priest racials seem a bit pointless with healing specs but the troll hex might come in handy for PvP. Berserking would be good for PvE and will have its use in PvP but would not be as strong as the undead wotf.
BUT saying that, blackout is a tier 1 talent. So a troll healing priest for PvP could possibly look at putting 5 points into that which would make Shadowguard useful in keeping players off of them. I haven't seen this been done, its just my nogging thinking outside of the box so it could do with testing or comment. But with priests lack of mobility it seems like it would certainly help. Hell i think i'll try it myself now! XD
That depends. In a premade environment as Disc Priest I would always go for UD just because WotF has much more clutch potential. However, if you want to play a little more self reliant and offensive, you can also run tri-spec, where Trolls get a lot of advantages due to SG proccing stun/weaving.
In PvE Troll is the better healer.
Looking forward to seeing fellow troll shadow priests out on the battlefield, throwing out hexes and having a laugh while the alliance gets their faces melted. It'll be glorious.
The comments on troll vs undead priests I've seen are pretty fascinating. I have a feeling that there may be a little bit more defending of undead and their racials because that's what a lot of people did back in vanilla, and troll priests were relatively unpopular. I think a lot of people are expecting people to play classic like it's 2004/5 again when people didn't know any better - but good players know that they should be dispelling devouring plague if they can instead of eating the damage, or using Jungle Remedy or Purification potions, and any dwarves are going to use Stoneform to remove it, and now you've just wasted either your Inner Focus or just under 1k mana. And if you're facing bad players who aren't doing those things... you're going to win anyway (and Shadowguard will help you do comparable damage if you restack it). In some situations, it may be better than Shadowguard... but not many.
Will of the Forsaken is the big racial undead has over troll and is admittedly really great, but Berserking is also very good for mana burns or heals.
Do you have footage from the Beta AV weekend of shadowguard proccing the stun? I think I once read it's a bug on privat servers 🙈
wow man never thought of this. im definately running priest but im so torn as to what race. (my next alt is druid:) ) i like the aesthetics of human but undead will and now this info on trolls has me rreallly confused!
Yeah priest is a hard pick because of the racial spells!
What is your spec build?
shadowguard is all good but pservers seems to have wrong SP ratio for it.
videos from 2006 show its dmg being similar to SW:P
and Wowhead says it has 27% SP ratio per orb.
while pserver one has at least 37%. not the end of the world, but still kinda sad.
It's 33% each orb, the same as lightning shield from shaman. The reason it hits hard is shadow talents + shadowform + debuffs multiply each other.
Wowhead says 26.7% and some troll priest footage from 2006
clearly shows it's less than 30%
NICE TRICK! THANKS !
That being said, troll priest seems like the way to go
That being said, I agree :)
Every time he says "that being said" take a shot
Dont do it. You'll be plastered!!! That being said it could be fun :)
The thing is , I always did everything in my power to avoid going to the barrens .... so yeah UD
Tracyn dont let 10 levels to decide on your whole experience
Oguzhan Kaygisiz helluva point!
Why would anyone avoid the barrens as horde? SOOO many quests there, and ones that send you to 4 other zones... If you are worried about other people, just play faster.
Tracyn i Will level in silverpine as a troll
Also, as far as I know the Hex is the only other form of healing reduction for PvP other than MS.
Wound poision but yes you are right! Its very nice!!
*enter bg* *cast hex on whole enemy team from afar* = gg
Great dude!
Which spec is this exactly?
deep shadow, remaining points in disc. Standard pvp build
@@Ebbnflow Can you link it?
Also good for gold making because acts as an aoe.Shadowguard+Thorns+Holy Nova very nice for lasher farm etc..
Shadowguard isn't an AOE but I agree for the farm
any good combination on alliance side?
Just roll dwarf.
Step 1: Cast Troll (Berserking)
Step 2: Cast Mana Burn
Step 3:
Step 4: Profit
what are your thoughts on the race for TBC though.
if Blizzard opens up a character copy option to a new TBC Classic servers...
shadow priests were a highly desired class in raids...
are you sure it is intended to proc blackout? seems like might be a private server thing
It's intended, did it back in vanilla. Blackout procs on all your shadow damage spells. So both Shadowguard and Touch of Weakness had a chance to proc it. Shadowguard obviously had 3 charges and ToW just one.
And Aliance best SP ? Night Elf ?
The main thing is: More people playing shadow! Best vanilla class ever! :)
Damn thanks man! Now i no longer want to main Druids. I think i want to go Shadowpriest now lol.
And mate?On which class did u end?
Wait, there's actually other races that can be priests other than dwarves? That's weird.
Haha! Its true!!!!
This was a bug and they patched it in 1.14
what gear are using in this vid ?
and talents?
beserking with wanding is actually great.
It private server bug, not work on beta
Utoro123 aah. Still troll is much better than undead
Personally I think that sPriest is so busted in PvP that you would wreck people with any race :)
Before I would have gone with undead, no question. Now I would go troll, no question.
Its very strong. Every priest I know is now questioning their race choice which is why I did the video!
@@Ebbnflow I try to play troll when I can so this was a no brainer for me. But I will be specced into healing + 5/5 black out for the peels in pvp
I would agree with you, if it wasnt for inner focus having a 3min cd like DP, which you forgot to mention. Perfect synergy. Also Wotf is too stronk...
That's a good point about inner focus and DP.
@@Ebbnflow the tricky bit is do i go male or female undead?? Plz help
still gets dispelled
Or you could just use Inner Focus for a Mind Blast/Greater Heal and actually profit from the +25% crit it gives. Or use it to buff your entire party with Fortitude after a ress in bg. DP/IF synergy is a non argument for me since IF is so versatile but cannot be used for anything else than DP on an Undead. WotF is strong indeed, no counter argument to that. Most people just don't take Hex into consideration tho. It is absolutely versatile and powerful for an almost 0 mana ability. Also, the DP spell power scaling is terrible since it is a life leech effect... The better your gear gets, the more awesome SG gets compared to DP.
tl;dr: I see how people prefer Undead for their looks, but as a Shadowpriest Troll racials are just better and there is no way of logically arguing otherwise.
@@chocrikir655 100% agree.
DA WITCH DOCTOR IS IN.
Great video. Just rolled a troll priest and already loving it. Two things I noticed: will of the forsaken isn't really discussed as another upside for undead priests, and trolls also have beastslaying and regeneration. On a priest that will likely have a good amount of spirit (assuming you don't have BIS all PVP gear which is int/sta +mp5 mostly), a passive 11% health regeneation in combat seems like a decent passive healing effect on you. It has actually saved me a few times up to level 10. granted, that's low level but it's better to have in combat than underwater breathing.
Why are you making my priest vs druid decision (for main) harder than it already is?
haha, yeah Scott playing the priest for a while made me question things too. both are tons of fun!
That being said... 🤙🏼
WOW - i already pickup undead but ... you right - troll can be better .
does blackout stun dr with itself?
Nope
how can troll have different spells than undead?
In Vanilla, priests had racial specific spells
Every race has two abilities specific to that race, although few are shared between two races.
hidden con: you have to be a troll
:( very true
alright, now I am torn between priest and druid.
go druid
Troll Rogues next
Yes, but can you argue undead is better to gank 1v1 with as its more offensive with devouring plague?
I would say Troll is overall stronger. But Undead 1v1 will poop on anyone not able to dispel DP. It's just so much damage and healing.
But mages can block it, priests and paladins can dispel it. Dwarfs can stoneform it. Also its 2019 and not 2005, people will know about it and dispel it, not just backpeddle and die.
Troll shadow priest in action... Sounds kind a kinky.
get the market card for auto revive from market and you got my vanilla priest
+ gear to control in nax good luckand nice
Any update on this comment from
@UCFIXBeMXwC_1U43jgCdJO1g?
"shadowguard is all good but pservers seems to have wrong SP ratio for it.
videos from 2006 show its dmg being similar to SW:P
and Wowhead says it has 27% SP ratio per orb.
while pserver one has at least 37%..."
Thanks.
buen video
but for PVE DP can deal more damage. for PVP WOTF can with u fight (MC jump for example)
I still dont know if i want to Play female or male troll but my mind was set being a troll priest months ago
I was going to play undead purely for the aesthetics, but now I'm playing troll. These racial are just waaay too good.
Dwarfs also have desperate prayer
I dunno about this. As someone who pvp’d a lot in classic, I don’t remember too many high ranking troll shadow priests. I do remember a metric ton of undead shadow priests. I don’t think you want to plan your pvp strategy around getting hit. In classic you’re going to get blown up by warriors and rogues and they’re just not going to take a lot of damage from this ability to be meaningful before you die.
People didnt know any better in classic. Just because troll priests were unpopular then doesn't really mean anything. People back then also didnt know they should dispel devouring plague so they just ate damage.
well that's because the game had only been out for like a few years back then. this is 15 years worth of evidence and testing on classic/vanilla servers.
Inner fire and then devouring plague. Ez.
you get inner fire on trolls as well.. DP is a 3 minute cooldown costing 900 mana that can be dispelled. Just not for me personally!
@@Ebbnflow Sorry, I meant Inner Focus. Always dyslexic with those two spells lol. Inner Focus and then devouring plague = ez.
Troll priest racials are, by far, superior to undead priest racials. Undead's only saving grace is WotF, which I agree is very strong. To be honest though, you can't go wrong with either race. Pick what you like best, and have fun.
@@Ebbnflow devouring plague is a disease not magic. only a class that can cure disease or the jungle remedy potion will work also.
@@omnignarusist yeah but all dwarves can cure diseases with stoneform and pally and priest have cure disease. So its going to be dispelled against many alliance players.
Rogue opens with CS. UW procs and SG procs BO /lol
I don't like priest, but if I ever played one I'd go troll. Shadowguard is definitely an amazing pvp racial
Yeah I think horde will see more this time around!
Ebn Alt, shadow priest
This is all good and stuff but I could not endure the clunkyness of the trolls appearance to play one :)
pick female
I was typing a comment asking if this was tested on beta, but before I finish you go ahead and tell me exactly what I wanted to hear :P I would definitively try a troll, as I already did the whole "evil/insane undead shadowpriest" RP style and Shadowguard aside I quite like trolls (the class at least).... the only issue of course being that I am rolling alliance and not even a priest (for a main at least) so not quite relevant for me despite being very interesting to have pointed out. I was quite surprised at how hard Shadowguard can really hit, you could make low geared melees commit suicide with a couple of those in a row :P
Yeah its pretty crazy damage for sure, I do think undead fill the archetypal shadow priest better.
OMG that is too OP to be only Trolls have....
i think i roll feral druid
What's up with all the advertisements?
Please do play undead. Regards, a chad dwarf Hunter.
No hunter is a "chad".
Problem is the looks. Undead Male for me is just the core of vanilla, they have the best animation and just fits me better.
However, troll female is also quite neat, their casting animation is enjoyable to watch. Troll Male though.. ugh.
Troll males look like they walk slow but yah I like the female troll animations and model size. Orc female is okay for some classes also. Had a female troll hunter in the 30-39 pvp bracket in tbc.
Devouring Plage have 3 min ...ok no priest for me.
yeah, its a bummer!
i never understood why so many priest players choosed undead back in 2004... i think because Will of the Forsaken had a 20 second duration ( now it's nerfed to only 5) so even if you have it you will get feared after these 5 seconds 100%, every single player in pvp with a brain will run away or whatever and you sit there with your 2 min cooldown, Devouring Plague is the same story... let's say you face a paladin/priest/dwarf race or a person with jungle remedy.... it will just be dispelled.... you just don't pick undead in 2019.
Troll is the superior race for shadow priest in 2019... DAZ DINGO! YES YES YES YES........... YES!
Marcel Hellwig oh hello again
couple things not mentioned in this video:
- shadowguard is best compared against devaring plague in which case DP is more consistent, you dont have to wait to get hit for it to do damage. it also has higher scaling if John G's comment is correct and it heals you for the full amount.
- tow doesnt have an internal cooldown you can keep reapplying it meaning that against a rogue or fury warrior or even druid you can watch them kill themselves just by spamming it also if you spam it the damage is on par with shadowguard cuz of its 3 sec internal cd. (wether scaling is p server like or as john g said)
- cannibalize vs -20% heal debuff unless you're in a BG cannibalize is more useful
with that said heres what i'd say; if you plan on pvp'ing solo undead is better, you have more survability and highest dmg output to melt people. if you wanna do lots of BGs or group pvp troll is better with their debuff and less mana waste. they might be better to farm with too.
if you gonna reply something longer than i wrote at least separate your text so its easier to reply.
- if you're gonna be constantly reapplying tow its cuz a rogue, fury warrior or druid is on your ass and you're waiting for shield CD martyrdom to proc to finally cast something in other words same cost as mind flay, same dmg (cuz you'll probly miss 2/3 channeling tick) and you dont run the risk of getting interupted / silenced.
- the first line in my comment states "couple things *not* mentioned in this video" alliance having defensive dispels was said so idk why you're commenting that, im adding to the video and giving an opinion at the end not debating shit.
- it increases black out proc by 10% every 3 sec again that was said in the video again
- you kinda contradict yourself here first you say you gonna be constantly hit then say over the course of a long battle, the two dont go togheter. but either way in a long battle mana becomes priority number 1 you dont have any to spare on sg, in fact at that point you're probly better of dropping SF and support healing or mana burning the other team cuz spriests dont do long battles even if only using MF and MB. hell even MC'ing one of their healer at that point is better since long battle = healer keeping people alive and MC = 1 healer less + GDC on another to dispel it + disorient their team somewhat. plus this is a BG scenario only, solo pvp battles are never gonna be long and since i said trolls for BG you're debating me for nothing on this one.
- good against rogue was said in the vid
- said in the video and as i said in solo pvp 20% healing debuff is irrelavent since you got silence which is why i have troll for group pvp where thats useful
- sg works like lightning shield it has an internal CD of 3 sec even if 10 niggas are gangbanging you same as a DP tick so again it cannot be more consistent on single target unless the target is prolonging the fight. in group pvp i guess you could argue its more consistent but also more spread out, you dont have control over who gets the dmg if you're trying to focus certain enemies on the team, especially if you go in the BG as spriest.
The analysis on hex of weakness is off. You simply don't have the globals to spare to use it.
Other than that great job. I heard somewhere that shadowguard has 100% spellpower coefficient. That's probably not true.
Kalle Hakala do you mean that “spamming hex across an entire BG” is not actually viable because you’d have to use up ~10 GCDs to make that happen?
@@aaronh.917 That's probably what he means. Even if it's just 5 v 5 you're gonna stand there for 7,5 seconds doing nothing than spam that shit while your team gets killed.
Dropping a Hex on an enemy FC if you don't have an MS Warrior with you is worth 1 GCD IMO.
madscientist916 yea I agree
Lol shadow priest are op against melee regardless.
Agreed. Undead is better against ranged so preferable overall.