The worst thing about this current format is that the best driver nearly never wins. Under the Winston format, only Dale Earnhardt and Mark Martin (Three separate times) didn’t win the title in 1990, 1995, 1997 and 2002. Motorsports should never celebrate mediocrity and that’s what the Playoffs do.
As much as people wanna clown on Denny Hamlin not winning a championship, let’s not pretend that Ryan Blaney’s championship run last year was all that. Even some Ryan Blaney fans found his championship run underwhelming.
@@bighand1530 IDK, every Ryan Blaney fan I have talked to seem to run with the delusion that he was not only the best driver, but he was the best by a landslide. To be fair, this has always been on social media like Facebook, but still.
@@nascarfanatic2425i like to think of 2023 as more of a redemption run for 2022, Blaney was like 2nd in Winston points at the end of 2022 even after being eliminated in the round of 8. He was by far not the best driver in 2023, but he was when it mattered most, and unfortunately thats all you really need in this format
@@nascarfanatic2425Blaney fan here. I was definitely well aware that he would not have won without the format, but I was still happy either way. Hell he’s had a better points season this year than last and I am not expecting a repeat😂
The Wildcard chase is an underrated points format. It rewarded drivers to win because it meant more in the points while in most cases, it rewared consistency too.
Maybe Nascar could try to implement a "showdown" format like the British Superbikes. Basically no point resets but races towards the end of the season award more points. This allows us to go back to a full season points format while still keeping the spirit of the chase/playoff format.
The Latford system with all of the current in-race rules, but with significantly more bonus points to the winner (25 instead of 5), since NASCAR used "Rewarding wins" as their metric, and keeping the modern in-race rules (double file restart, lucky dog, stage cautions) to keep the field closer together to prevent the earlier snooze fests.
If you want a legitimate champion and an entertaining points race, its still the same answer. Its the Latford System. You get dominant seasons which are fun to watch. You get close seasons with 6 or 7 guys still in contention at the final race which are fun to watch. You get everything. I still track the season using this system and thats who I actually consider champ cause they earned it, not the ones winning thanks to a rigged system designed to reward teams not trying every single week
I don't care how bad the playoffs are, I would have this format for the rest of time then ever have a championships decided by how many miles or how much money was given in a race
Gordon would've made the final four in 2014 if they had stage points back then. He could've been the champion instead of Harvick,meaning Harvick never wins a championship.
3 formats that you forgot to bring up were the 2004-2006 Busch Series/Truck Series format, the 2007-2010 Nationwide Series/Truck Series format, and the 2011-2015 1-point per Position Full Season Format. Basically, the formats of the Cup Series without the Chase. For the 2004-2006 Busch Series Format: The Best- It still acknowledged the best driver all season while putting a little more emphasis on winning. The Worst- It could still be very anticlimactic as drivers could still lock up the championship prior to the start of the final race, as 2 out of the 3 years this format was used, that was exactly the case. The 2007-2010 Nationwide Series format: The Best- This format put the best emphasis on winning while still taking value in being the overall best all season. IMO, this format was the closest to perfect that NASCAR ever got. If only this had been how the Cup Series was crowning champions. Jeff Gordon, Carl Edwards, and Kevin Harvick all would've won championships in the Cup Series during this time. The Worst- It was still very anticlimactic as the best driver could lock the championship up prior to the final race of the year, and considering that this format was used in the lower national touring divisions during the time when Buschwacking and Tailgating was dominating those divisions, people didn't appreciate this format as much. The 2011-2015 1-point Per Position Full Season Format: The Best- This format was still emphasizing on who was the best all year long while still putting plenty of emphasis on winning. It also simplified the points format. The Worst- Again, this format could be anticlimactic as the best driver all year long could lock up the championship prior to the final race. Also, simplifying the points format was a direct statement from NASCAR that it thinks its fans are too stupid to do basic math. This format also gave the Xfinity Series its first (I think) winless champion with Austin Dillon winning the championship in 2013.
@@JasonRamme-g9w Yes, he would've. Which is why I have those two seasons along with Elliott Saddler's 2011 and 2012 seasons on the back burner for my series on my own channel that I've been putting off.
If they would make the rule that top 14 in points make it no matter what and only 2 last spots can be taken by a win (basically wild card but top 16), left playoff points in the championship 4 and rewarded 2x more points for regular season standings (and +1 for 11-th and 12-th spots) it would be pretty good. Maybe even give playoff points for top 4 each round (1-st - 5, 2-nd - 3, 3-rd - 2 and 4-th - 1).
If NASCAR always used the Latford points format from to the beginning to today,we would not complain. Also Mark Martin would've won the 1990 championship if you give his points back.
As an F1 fan in addition to NASCAR, I find it quite unique that NASCAR has frequently changed its championship format throughout its history. Contrast this with F1 where for most of its history from 1950 up until 2003 only the top six finishers (yes only six) in each race earned points. As a result it created a situation in which one team or driver could dominate the series for years if they developed their car better than everyone else & had talent. This is why when you look back at the history of F1 it is the dynasties (like Ferrari in the early 2000's with Schumacher, Fangio in the 50's & McLaren with Prost & Senna from 1989-1991 among others) that people remember the most not the championship battles though F1 has had some memorable championship battles with Schumacher vs Hill in 1994 being my personal favorite. Even when F1 changed the points format in 2009 to give points to drivers that finish all the way down in 10th, we still had two dynasties that happened with Vettel & Red Bull from 2010-13 & Hamilton & Mercedes from 2014-2020. Heck F1 has a dynasty currently with Max Verstappen. However I don't see F1 ever adopting a NASCAR style playoff format (even if Liberty Media are the ones that want it) mainly because it would turn winning the World title into more about being lucky than on skill. This despite the fact that F1 needs major changes to its championship format to stop a huge decline in popularity (particularly here in the US) mainly because fans are tired of the Max Verstappen dynasty & him completely dominating the sport.
Other great F1 championship battles... 1974 (Fittipaldi vs Regazzoni at the Glen), 1976 (not much of a battle during the final race due to all circumstances surrounding it, but Hunt and Lauda in Fuji), 1986 (Prost with a masterclass of equipment conservation in Adelaide defeating both Mansell and Piquet), 1988-90 (Senna vs Prost I, II and III, with a part of the rule you forgot to mention, the discard of points of 1988. Prost had more 'pure' points than Senna, but all drivers discarded their five worst results during the season. Only the best 11 results counted towards the championship. Prost lost 18 points in that, Senna lost only 4. It really showed difference of driving styles between the two and the battle always ended in Japan, before Adelaide), 1999 (maybe even more for what could've been had Schumacher not broken his leg during the season and missed some races), 2006 (man, the Ferrari engine really let Schumacher down in Suzuka, it was supposed to be him coming to Interlagos with the advantage in points), 2008 (that one hurts a lot as a brazilian), 2010 (Petrov trapping Alonso's title hopes and dreams in Yas Marina), 2012 (Alonso going toe-to-toe during the year with a mid Ferrari but ultimate losing to a behemoth RBR). We might not get a lot of seasons coming down to the last race, but every time it does it is special. US fans withstood Dale and Richard's dynasties and cannot withstand Verstappen's... typical
The Latford system was my favorite and wish it would come back. But obviously there’s no chance of that. I wish they could at least bring back the wild card Chase. Thought that was perfect. Top 10 in points get in, and still have the drama of 2 drivers having to win to get the final 2 spots.
This is why I’m keeping track of my own points system this year. Combining the 12 driver Chase with the elimination style format and adding in a higher points spread. The most interesting part about it is I have the Crown Jewel races counting as double points races, and I’ve added the Bristol Night Race to the group of Crown Jewels. It’s been pretty interesting so far.
There’s never really been a system that has properly awarded wins in a system. Win and your in for the playoffs is way too over the top and previous systems with a five point gap between first and second wasn’t rewarding enough. Winning should be the most important part of a system in racing. I like the idea of the season long points format but I would like to see something like 60 for first, 40 for second, 38 for third, 37 for fourth and so on. There would be a large incentive for winning without over rewarding for winning and it would crown a champion who was consistently good all season and more than likely forcing them to win a few races if they wanted a championship.
The thing about any championship format is that it is inherently arbitrary. Say you have 2 drivers that have incredible speed and dominate the conversation for an entire season: 1 wins half of the races, but crashes out going for the win every other race. The other driver finishes 5th every race but never fights for the win. Which of those 2 drivers would you say is the best? I know this is a major exaggeration of an example, but it goes to show that there's not always an agreed-upon way to determine who is the best. The only thing that gives rules any form of legitimacy is that all the teams agree to play by them. The NASCAR Playoff system is not perfect, but it has provided us with some of the greatest moments in the sport's history in a relatively short time, and has rewarded drivers who can turn up the heat at the right time and smoke the competition. It's all arbitrary, so I just go with whatever is fun.
I've always thought the simpler the better. Say in a 40 car grid, 1st place gets 40 points, last place gets 1 point. Whoever led the most laps gets 1 extra point, whoever gained the most positions overall gets 1 extra point, and the winner gets 5 points for winning. You can even keep stages if you want, 1 extra point for the winner of each "stage" excluding the finish, and whoever has the most points at the end of the season is the champion. It doesnt have to be difficult and overcomplicated.
I would love to see a full season format with the points system and stage points we have now. I think it could put on better finishes then the Winston/Latford system did
I've been tooling around with a system that would award 50 points for a win, then 43 for second, decreasing by one point for finishing position until you get to fifth (3=42, 4=41, 5=40). Sixth would get 34 points, decreasing by one point per position until you got to tenth (7=33, 8=32, 9=31, 10=30). Eleventh would get 26 points, and all finishing positions after that would be decreased by one point per position. Finishing thirty-sixth or below would earn one point. Bonus points would be available for: Pole position (1 point), Lead a lap (1 point), Lead the most laps (1 point), Finish on the lead lap (1 point), and Fastest lap during the race (1 point). I think this would still keep the emphasis on winning because the race winner is always going to score the most points in a race, even if the second place car earns all available bonus points, but with the points intervals being tighter it should (theoretically) keep things interesting until late into the season. Do away with the gimmicky stuff like playoffs, stage points/breaks, restart zones, and take it back to a pure consistency-based system.
Either the Latford/Winston cup style system, or the Wild Card format from 2011 through 2014. While today's playoff format does make for excitement all throughout the season, and rewards drivers for having good regular seasons by giving them cushions in the playoffs, the final four, 1-race finale is somewhat underwhelming. I don't necessarily have a problem with stage racing as it introduces new strategy. My only problem with it is philosophical, in that racing needed stages to be exciting, rather than just let the mileage play out organically. When Kyle Busch was on Pat mcafee, the hosts gave great insight into how casual fans view a race. mcafee said himself that he'll often sit out the first 2 stages and come back towards the end. Is that really what you want?
Id argue that as much as the points system changes, the one thing that ruined legitimacy for championship contention was adding provisionals that let slower cars in the field. We bemoan how Kenseth was a champion who didnt win enough but its forgotten that he used 7 provisionals qualifying for races in that year. If i had to pick a favorite system though itd be the original Chase format if only because if you bizarro world it back to the 1992 season you end up with Kyle Petty as champion and thats its own level of wild.
The provisional system started in 1976 to encourage more participation after only six drivers ran every race in '75. I do think they went too far with it though. Two provisionals per race worked fine from '76-'94. Then sponsors started bitching to NASCAR because their team had one or two races where they weren't fast enough, and it all started going downhill.
So here’s my take on the whole points system. Back then I get it. With what we have today, I like it for 2 reasons, I don’t love it but I like it. There is something I want to change though. 1 - Every position matters, as it should you increase in points. The higher you finish the more points you get. Stage racing matters so you can get the most points at the end of the race. Plus playoff points matter. 2 - Back then times were different. We live in a world of entertainment and drama. So NASCAR imo did the right thing to change with the times. What creates drama what do other sports do. Oh Playoffs, let’s do that. 2004 - 2010. The system was broken bc imo it didn’t reward the best consistency. 2003 Kenseth wins the title by winning 1 race while Ryan Newman won 8 races, nascar was like something isn’t right. I purpose for NASCAR, a mix of old and new. Keep what you have with the points system and playoffs. It creates the most drama as we see at some cutoff tracks. The new change would be the championship 4 to instead of a 1 race winner take all, to a 3 different tracks whoever has the most points wins. And you bring back must be in the Top 30, I’d change that to either Top 20 or Top 25.
Domination doesn't need to be feared as you said. It should be recognized and praised. Let's keep the current points system, but get rid of stages, and get rid of playoffs/post-season. No more gimmick restarts. Let the races play out naturally
I would like to see the Latford system be used again but simplified. A win gets you 40 last gets you 1 point, leading a lap would be a bonus of 10, lead the most laps you get 50 for a maximum total of 100 points. Easy to follow and to use for the fan and non-fan alike.
Can we talk about stage racing and how it’s killing the strategy in racing and making all teams run nearly the same pit strategy. I miss the organic racing. 300 laps of green flag racing is still exciting! Indy car still has entertaining racing without manufacturing it.
Racing is not stick and ball sports. Racing is supposed to reward consistency and hard work over a period of time. F1 is so popular right now because they embrace that. A top 3 is a huge deal and the points carry over all year plus there isnt a lot of points to be had per weekend so every point is crucial. I dont think anyone out there looks at a F1 race and a Nascar race and says the F1 race was more fun to watch. F1 is exploding in popularity though and i think its because they embrace tradition.
it's simpler than this: for NFL, MLB, NBA and NHL the playoffs make sense because you either have too many games during the year or cannot face every other team during the season. In nascar you face everyone, in different kinds of tracks. If you can face everyone in that circumstance there shpuld be no playoff
You see I got in the sport in 2022, cause of Martinsville. I don't know I kinda like the playoffs, maybe cause am not a boomer, I watched rally and as a European it shows that you have to be on top of your game every weekend, if your not winning then your not trying hard enough cause the cars are basically spec and with that being said , I kinda like it. Tho kinda need it to have a roadcource and some oval in the final 4 championship to see who is actually the best. If needs be then they could copy F1s format, but that'll be boring (well max)
Under F1 points, Reddick would have an 11 point lead over Larson, with Bell only two points behind Larson. F1's point system is fine, lack of competition is their problem.
You've just exactly described the problem with playoffs in NASCAR. You say that you have to "on the top of your game every weekend", but the sport is basically WWE, so you can be at the top of your game and somebody decides to wreck you, or you just run over a piece of debris and it doesn't matter. A season-long points system equalizes things that are out of your control for a single race.
Here’s my idea. Keep the current playoffs and points format but completely get rid of the “win and you’re in” system across the board. Regular season and playoffs. I think that would be very interesting
I have argued this many times I would love to see the laperd system with added the stage racing I personally don't hate the stage racing, like a lot of people do. But if you're going to keep the current style of point system I think what needs to be added is getting a point for leading a lap in each stage and then getting three points if you lead the most laps in the entire race,
Crazy but true. If NASCAR never got rid of the Lapford system, 2006, 2008, and 2009 would all be decided by less than 10 points. In 2006, Kenseth beats Johnson by 1. In 2008, Johnson beats Edwards by 4. In 2009, Johnson beats Gordon by 6.
Motorsports do not need playoffs. What made me dislike the current 16 driver elimination format even further was people comparing it to stick and ball sports. It lacks legitimacy. Kevin Harvick, Jeff Gordon, and the worst NASCAR screwjob in NASCAR history, Carl Edwards In 2016 drivers intentionally crashing each other because of the playoffs. To tell you the truth about the playoffs format, I don't like it. Motorsports do not need playoffs.
The Original Chase Format With The 2004-2006 10 Driver/2004-2013 10 Race Format With Chase Points For The NASCAR Cup Series. But The Worse Is Not Only The Current 2014-Present Elimination Playoff System For The NASCAR Cup Series, But Also, The 2016-Elimination Playoff System For The NASCAR Xfinity Series And The NASCAR Craftsman Truck Series.
I would be really happy with bringing Latford system back. But I also think Chase format (especially 2007-2010 and 2011-2013) was pretty good too. Add playoff points to that and I think we have the best of both worlds where we have more excitement and more emphasis on winning and at the same time all-year-long performance is rewarded. I really think Championship 4 finale is more anticlimatic than someone clinching title a few weeks before the season's end. I know it may sound counterintuitive but I feel like, yes, there's a tension and you really don't know what's gonna happen by the end of the race but at the same time all these storylines, these mind games (like Stewart v Edwards in 2011), this whole culmination of the final duel between season's protagonists - it's all gone. We don't see a year-long or at least playoff-long fight for the championship. Instead we have a fight for making another round and then just a shootout for the championship. Although I love NASCAR and I still watch races and follow the season closely, I just feel last race of the season doesn't feel as special as it used to
The thing that is so so so sad is that all nascar had to do is stretch out points rewarded and bonus points in the Latford system and things would make so much more sense
A system that better rewards dominence during the regular season is needed. The fact Penske picked up two trophies via lackluster seasons is a problem.
What i really wanna see is a stage type racing where we still have stages and points to the top 10 but no cautions at the stages. I just miss the days where the races just ran and if theres a caution theres a caution.
My idea for a new system is an actual bracket system. Forget playoff points and “win and you’re in”, keep the current format for normal points, and keep stages but don’t throw cautions for them. At the end of the regular season take the top 16 in points and rank them according to their placement. In the playoffs there’s still three race rounds but over each round each driver only races to eliminate one other driver (1 vs 16, 2 vs 15, 3 vs 14, and so on). This would go onto the round of 8 and then the championship race can be the same to give nascar the “game 7” moment they want. It would result in one less playoff round but I think we can all agree the playoffs are too long anyways. I feel this way it creates a more accurate final four while still allowing upsets if a bottom seed driver races his ass off in the playoff and still giving nascar the entertainment aspect they want the playoffs to have.
There’s absolutely nothing good that I find with the current format. It’s unrewarding, and really it makes the title hollow. Full Season is easily the best. Yeah you’ll get clunker years where someone runs away with it, but it just makes the dramatic seasons that much better. Look at F1, Max absolutely destroyed them last year.. and the year before, but 2021 was historically great, and 2024 is actually shaping up to be a fight unless Red Bull figures life out. “Game 7” in the NBA/MLB is special, and it doesn’t happen everytime.
I don't mind runaway or dominant wins, what was a big no-no was championships getting clinched early or with so few wins, like what happened in 1995,7, and 2003
Really all they had to do was just make it like 25 points between 1st and 2nd not this unbelievably stupid format Latford system was great because it rewarded you for being consistent the 1992 title shows that you don’t have to manufacture a bad format to manufacture drama
Another con of the Latford system which you implied but didn’t directly say: “Good points day.” That was what drivers were going for. The hail melon wouldn’t have been thought of in that era. Unlikely even for a win
I loved the latford system the best. But a merger of the current system and the original chase would be interesting. Instead of win and in, it would be the top 10 in points battling it out with points awarded like the current system.
i like what we have but want to change 2 things. 1. I like the emphasis on winning but a fluke winner shouldnt qualify. I say 100 bonus points for a win. That way it naturally keeps the people buried in points out of the playoff. 2. I would like to see a 9 race 12 team "playoff" and have a 3 race finale. Not a fan of the final race deciding it all.
Kyle Busch winning the championship after missing 11 races in 2015 is the best argument for a full season championship going. Under the Latford system he would have finished 28th at best.
The best would be the Latford System but simplified, i. e. 1 point per position. I don't hate the playoffs but I hate the win-and-you're-in... mostly. We can keep it but NASCAR has to have some standards. I say, unless you're in the top-20 in points by regular season's end, you don't make the playoffs. I also don't like the winner-take-all final race. Let's do a round of 3 to decide the champion. Keep the playoffs but I beg for theses simple changes.
The best of the pre 2004 format: A true champion was always crowned until Matt Kenseth "was undeserving of his title with 1 win" even with a VERY consistent season. The best of the 2024 Playoff format: You can't win a championship without winning many races (until someone like Matt Crafton exposed it in 2019 and Ryan Newman nearly exposed it in 2014.)
I mean, he was a weak winner compared to Jeff Gordon, and had the same personality that almost every driver in the field today has: bland, boring, unimpressive
@@S.K.R.E.Inc. It doesn’t matter. The chase format has gotten way more screwed with than it initially was intended to. Even the 2004-2013 format wasn’t a complete loss IMO besides maybe screwing Gordon out of a couple championships. And Kenseth got his DESERVED championship for finishing only 11 races outside the top 10 and only having 4 races with a finish worse than 20th.
@@masoneveridge4078Because it was close. If Johnson, Earnhardt and Gordon each had one-two fewer bad races and were still in contention, no one would have complained about Matt winning.
I even said at the end of 2003 going into '04, keep the latford system but give the winner max 200 points. I don't even keep up with the current points now, just who has won, because that's all that matters now, win and you're in. Still a fan of the Latford system, just tweak it a bit.
I’d say the 10 race chase was a good medium. Everything else is either too chaotic or too boring for the most part Now there are some seasons where a full season format would be better There are some where the playoffs would be better But imo the perfect medium is the 10 race chase
The only thing I'll say is none of the champions should be called "illegitimate" regardless of the points system they won under. The drivers don't make the rules. It rubs me the wrong way for people to trash them because of the points system.
@@MrGunlover12 legitimate is means very little in the terms of following the rules legitimate champions are champions who were undeniably the best driver all year
I'm always thinking of the Latford system and if it could actually just be in that simplified way as they tried. It's a tough question about insuring the best overall performance will be rewarded and in the same time making sure the wins are rewarded best. The system I use in my "fantasy" world has exactly that - The winner gets double the points of the second, the 5th gets double the points of the 6th and the 10th gets double the points of the 11th. I still consider the play-offs, but I'm definitely ditching the "win and you're in" policy. Not that anyone needs it if you get such big gaps between each finish. The cutline would just fall at P16. But I still am considering ditching them altogether since if the final is no "winner takes all", then what is the point for having the play-offs at all?
The best thing NASCAR can do is go back to a season long championship with the current points system (unless they do away with stages). Unfortunately, that will never happen and the championship will forever be illegitimate.
I think the Playoffs have something good but need a proper 3 race final round. Brings the best out of the chase and the Playoffs, and will award the best drivers once again if the Playoff points continue to carry over
2011 without the chase is perfect. That would be my vote all day long. I even have a Facebook group where I’ve gone in and did the points for every NASCAR season in history with the 2011 system without the Chase. So many different and actually deserving champions. If you wanted to have a chase then they need to reward people for their consistency. Top 10 at the end of the race get chase points. Kinda how a stage winner gets a playoff point now. The whole point of the latford and 2011 system (minus the Chase) is to reward average finishing position. That way you can reset the points, but the person who has had a great season doesn’t get screwed.
Id like to see the latford system...revised make 1st place worth 50pts. 2nd gets 40 then subtract 1 pts per position. 5 pts for a lap led. 5 pts for most laps led. Keep the stages but remove the cautions. Thats the fix. Removed win and youre in. Easy to understand and it makes winning more important while dignifying season long performance.
The Winston format could have just made wins worth like 20 or 30 extra points to make wins more exciting and a possibility to make up for ground in the last few weeks. I think that would have been a better choice than the playoffs or the Chase.
As much as I'd like to have a full season format with stage points included, I don't think we'll see the format drop a playoff mini-season at any point. I think what would be a good balance is re-incorporate the run of the Chase with the two wildcard slots and stage racing. Encourage placing first and running up high consistently throughout the race with stage points with no lock-in slots for winning. Make every race matter, make repairing cars mid-race matter, every point matters. No round system, no stage breaks, nothing. You keep your playoff points at the start of the Chase. Make the playoffs worth fighting for instead of having guys who don't really belong there exit early (no offense to Harrison Burton, kid earned his win but he's not making it far in the playoffs) and a random champion from a group of 4 drivers who finished highest in the last race.
I would like to see the Latford system comeback, but have points to go to 200 for winning 175 for second place, 160 for third then 150 to fourth with points dropping by five for each position after. Top 30 gets points and rest after 30th place are out of luck. I am fine with stage points as is. I would award 25 points for most laps lead and 5 points for leading lap with pole winner getting 25 points as bonus and ways tonprotect someone who finishes outside top 30 to get some points.
I feel like people underestimate the effect that the points format has on how drivers race. Sure you can keep track of the Winston points format but ultimately that is meaningless. The rules aren’t changed halfway through a season. From the start in Daytona they know the format and to think a team’s strategy during the year would be the same in a season long format compared to the playoffs is silly. As soon as one driver makes a decision based on playoffs, the butterfly effect causes the whole Winston Points format to be meaningless.
If my driver doesn’t win, I hope for one of two things to happen: 1 Harrison Burton squeaks through the playoffs and wins the championship. OR 2. Martin Truex wins the championship without a single win.
I believe that the best point system that we could have is the same way that they do for race is currently, but eliminating the playoffs altogether and the stage cautions. It's almost like the Latford system in many ways, but at least keeps things simple for modern audiences.
This is the argument i use against people who claim Petty was the best driver. He won most of his championships where points were determined based on laps completed when he was the only driver with factory support that could afford to run every race. He basically won by default
As a completely unbiased Tony Stewart fan, the wild card chase is easily the best postseason format, and I’d probably choose it as my favorite points format as well since it was what was used at my peak of Nascar fandom before coming back after Chicago last year.
Latford system all the way but I would like a full season point system that gives the winner at least 20 more points then the second place guy and bring back leading lap points.
The current format would be the best if the championship wasn’t 1 race but instead most points scored in 3 races like the previous 3 rounds (round of 16, 12, & 8).
I like this current format cause it creates entertainment. Which isn’t a bad thing. The hail melon never would’ve happened if it wasn’t for this format
The Latford System is, and will continue to be, the best system ever implemented by NASCAR. So simple that it was designed on a napkin and used for decades.
Am I the only one who wants to see the the 1973 point system return for the regular season and then a modified chase format for the final 10 races? There are a lot of longer tracks on the schedule now so now it’s not as broken. Most road courses are longer than 1.5 miles, so they will mean more than normal. Adding 5 point bonuses to the top 3 per stage in short track races will make it more balanced too since it would be .25*laps completed so a lead lap finish and finishing 2nd in every stage would be .25*500=125, then 125+98=223 and then an extra 5 points per top 3 in stage would be 238 points for the race. It’s complicated but I think it would work. You could also reward consistency by adding an extra 50 points for every 5 straight races that you finish in the top 10 in for balance since winning a short track race and placing top 3 in every stage would still be like finishing 32nd 10 laps down at a Daytona or talladega race.
I say mix the Latford system and the Wildcard system and the Playoff system. So each position is worth 1 point winner getting 40 second 35 third 34 and down. But each win counts for 5 bonus points top 12 make the chase on points and first in points gets a 30 point buffer second 25 third a 20 fourth a 15 fifth a 10 and no one else gets any bonus points. No elimination
Honestly, I kind of like the current points system (even spread across the board from 2nd down to 36th), I just wish it rewarded wins with more points instead of being this magical golden ticket that got you in the playoffs. If it was maybe 100 points for a win instead of 40 plus a guaranteed playoff spot, I feel like it would both be rewarding for drivers who won, but also promote consistency the entire year so you didn't just win once and sleep the rest of the year. And yes, I know we're probably stuck with this playoff format for who knows how long, but I seriously wish they'd at least make it more than 1 race to crown a champion... I'd also like to see how the "in season tournament" looks next year and, if it does well, maybe have them take notes from it if they do continue with a "playoff style" post season.
I think the current playoff system is close to what would be best. 2 major changes i would make, get rid of win and in. Reward winning with a large point bonus, maybe 50 points for a win vs. 40. 2nd, the championship race needs help. 3 solutions, make the round of 4 a 3 race playoff, and make the round of 16 one race, make both 16 and 4 a 2 race format, or the most likely, make points matter in the championship race. If Kyle Larson dominates, wins 2 stages, and finishes second to Denny Hamlin, who got zero stage points but wins, Larson would then be the champion. Stages and points in the championship race literally mean nothing, and that's a problem. So let playoff points carry into the championship race and continue to let drivers earn those points during the race and see where they are at races' end.
I'm not saying I want a playoff format, but if you're going to do it, let's do it right. 12 races. 4 rds of 3 races each. High seed vs. low seed throughout each round (just like in all other playoff formats). Then in the Championship Round, the remaining 4 drivers battle of the final 3 races on points, not just who finishes ahead in one race. I feel like that would add some legitimacy to the format that it severely lacks.
What is your favorite parts of both the current NASCAR format and whichever is your favorite format?
Favorite is Winston
Playoffs are the best except the final round should be 3 races based off of points with a 12 race playoff
2011-2013 Chase: Top 10, 2 wildcards.
The Best. The Original Chase Format With The 2004-2006 10 Driver Format/2004-2013 10 Chase Race Format With Chase Points For The NASCAR Cup Series.
I’d say the ladford system, but having 1 point between each position.
The worst thing about this current format is that the best driver nearly never wins. Under the Winston format, only Dale Earnhardt and Mark Martin (Three separate times) didn’t win the title in 1990, 1995, 1997 and 2002. Motorsports should never celebrate mediocrity and that’s what the Playoffs do.
As much as people wanna clown on Denny Hamlin not winning a championship, let’s not pretend that Ryan Blaney’s championship run last year was all that. Even some Ryan Blaney fans found his championship run underwhelming.
@@bighand1530 IDK, every Ryan Blaney fan I have talked to seem to run with the delusion that he was not only the best driver, but he was the best by a landslide. To be fair, this has always been on social media like Facebook, but still.
@@nascarfanatic2425i like to think of 2023 as more of a redemption run for 2022, Blaney was like 2nd in Winston points at the end of 2022 even after being eliminated in the round of 8. He was by far not the best driver in 2023, but he was when it mattered most, and unfortunately thats all you really need in this format
@@alexortega626 I dunno how I would feel if Ryan Blaney does win two championships in a row?
@@nascarfanatic2425Blaney fan here. I was definitely well aware that he would not have won without the format, but I was still happy either way. Hell he’s had a better points season this year than last and I am not expecting a repeat😂
The Wildcard chase is an underrated points format. It rewarded drivers to win because it meant more in the points while in most cases, it rewared consistency too.
100% agree. Sad that "spingate" kind of killed it off before it had a chance to shine...
This reminds me of Jimmy SPencer and his unending praise for the Wild Card format on Race Hub when it was introduced.
As much as I like the latford system the wildcard system was good too it also crowd a true champion. 🏆
Stewart vs Edwards was a great championship battle
Latford system is my favorite system of all time. Honestly the Wild Card Chase is underrated and should get its credit
I like the current points system during the "regular" season way more
The Winston Cup format, The Chase format, and the wild card format will always be king. Doing away with the top 30 rule hurt the current format.
Laughs in Harrison Burton
The wild card format was even worse than ours
the top 30 rule would actually help only just once, it's not much difference, the win and you're in itself a problem
I’d argue win and your in and the elimination style ruins the current format
Maybe Nascar could try to implement a "showdown" format like the British Superbikes.
Basically no point resets but races towards the end of the season award more points.
This allows us to go back to a full season points format while still keeping the spirit of the chase/playoff format.
The Latford system with all of the current in-race rules, but with significantly more bonus points to the winner (25 instead of 5), since NASCAR used "Rewarding wins" as their metric, and keeping the modern in-race rules (double file restart, lucky dog, stage cautions) to keep the field closer together to prevent the earlier snooze fests.
Double-file restarts absolutely need to not be a thing any more, especially not at the end of races
@@kingofrunescapepkingI've been thinking this for a while now, outside usually has the advantage anyway.
I can safely argue the 2014-16 Nascar chase grid format could be the worst championship determining format in sports history
I love the dram of the current system, BUT I wish the actual "final four" championship was determined over 2 or 3 races, instead of just 1.
Yeah, and maybe a track the car is actually good at
Bring back the 03 Latford system with extra points awarded to winners. That system, with an extra emphasis on winning, would be the best thing.
This is my answer bro. If NASCAR brings back that system the sport will grow again.
see my comment, even 20 years ago, I said they should have kept the Latford system but give the winner max 200 points.
I hate the current one. They crowned the 9th best driver last year
We can thank Matt Kenseth for ruining the old format
@S.K.R.E.Inc. yeah that's true, it's definitely more fun but I think it needs to be a 3 race championship and po pts stay
7th best but the point still stands
@@CJODell12 look again. Ovr pts he was 9th I'm 99% sure if not sorry
@@S.K.R.E.Inc.no, he's just a scapegoat for NASCAR. They just used that as an excuse to gimmick up the sport for 20 years.
If you want a legitimate champion and an entertaining points race, its still the same answer. Its the Latford System. You get dominant seasons which are fun to watch. You get close seasons with 6 or 7 guys still in contention at the final race which are fun to watch. You get everything. I still track the season using this system and thats who I actually consider champ cause they earned it, not the ones winning thanks to a rigged system designed to reward teams not trying every single week
Not to mention that we in the past with the latford system we got to see 3 drivers fight for the championship.
A petition for Nascar to bring back the latford system
👇
I don't care how bad the playoffs are, I would have this format for the rest of time then ever have a championships decided by how many miles or how much money was given in a race
All I can say is: I was a Jeff Gordon fan growing up 😭😭😭
2007 was so painful 😔
@@traviswilkins3901 2007? How about 2014?
My fav driver. Started watching in 2004. So much heartbreak
Me to!!! Diehard
Gordon would've made the final four in 2014 if they had stage points back then. He could've been the champion instead of Harvick,meaning Harvick never wins a championship.
3 formats that you forgot to bring up were the 2004-2006 Busch Series/Truck Series format, the 2007-2010 Nationwide Series/Truck Series format, and the 2011-2015 1-point per Position Full Season Format. Basically, the formats of the Cup Series without the Chase.
For the 2004-2006 Busch Series Format:
The Best- It still acknowledged the best driver all season while putting a little more emphasis on winning.
The Worst- It could still be very anticlimactic as drivers could still lock up the championship prior to the start of the final race, as 2 out of the 3 years this format was used, that was exactly the case.
The 2007-2010 Nationwide Series format:
The Best- This format put the best emphasis on winning while still taking value in being the overall best all season. IMO, this format was the closest to perfect that NASCAR ever got. If only this had been how the Cup Series was crowning champions. Jeff Gordon, Carl Edwards, and Kevin Harvick all would've won championships in the Cup Series during this time.
The Worst- It was still very anticlimactic as the best driver could lock the championship up prior to the final race of the year, and considering that this format was used in the lower national touring divisions during the time when Buschwacking and Tailgating was dominating those divisions, people didn't appreciate this format as much.
The 2011-2015 1-point Per Position Full Season Format:
The Best- This format was still emphasizing on who was the best all year long while still putting plenty of emphasis on winning. It also simplified the points format.
The Worst- Again, this format could be anticlimactic as the best driver all year long could lock up the championship prior to the final race. Also, simplifying the points format was a direct statement from NASCAR that it thinks its fans are too stupid to do basic math. This format also gave the Xfinity Series its first (I think) winless champion with Austin Dillon winning the championship in 2013.
The 2023 Truck race at Phoenix was a mess .
@@JasonRamme-g9w I agree, but what does that have to do with my comment?
I don't know. Elliott Sadler would've won two Xfinity championships in 2016 and 2017 under a full season points format
@@JasonRamme-g9w Yes, he would've. Which is why I have those two seasons along with Elliott Saddler's 2011 and 2012 seasons on the back burner for my series on my own channel that I've been putting off.
Latford system is by far the best systems NASCAR ever implemented and is also my favorite. However, I’d say the wild card format was a close second.
If they would make the rule that top 14 in points make it no matter what and only 2 last spots can be taken by a win (basically wild card but top 16), left playoff points in the championship 4 and rewarded 2x more points for regular season standings (and +1 for 11-th and 12-th spots) it would be pretty good. Maybe even give playoff points for top 4 each round (1-st - 5, 2-nd - 3, 3-rd - 2 and 4-th - 1).
The Winston Format from 1975 - 2003 is the best NASCAR Format period 100%.
They only needed to add a literal Matt Kenseth rule (more points for the winner), not overhaul the entire thing
@@BrianIsTheGOAT594 couldn’t agree with you more 🫡
You are 1000% correct
If NASCAR always used the Latford points format from to the beginning to today,we would not complain. Also Mark Martin would've won the 1990 championship if you give his points back.
@@JasonRamme-g9w as a Dale Earnhardt fan I’m glad Dale won that title
As an F1 fan in addition to NASCAR, I find it quite unique that NASCAR has frequently changed its championship format throughout its history. Contrast this with F1 where for most of its history from 1950 up until 2003 only the top six finishers (yes only six) in each race earned points. As a result it created a situation in which one team or driver could dominate the series for years if they developed their car better than everyone else & had talent. This is why when you look back at the history of F1 it is the dynasties (like Ferrari in the early 2000's with Schumacher, Fangio in the 50's & McLaren with Prost & Senna from 1989-1991 among others) that people remember the most not the championship battles though F1 has had some memorable championship battles with Schumacher vs Hill in 1994 being my personal favorite. Even when F1 changed the points format in 2009 to give points to drivers that finish all the way down in 10th, we still had two dynasties that happened with Vettel & Red Bull from 2010-13 & Hamilton & Mercedes from 2014-2020. Heck F1 has a dynasty currently with Max Verstappen. However I don't see F1 ever adopting a NASCAR style playoff format (even if Liberty Media are the ones that want it) mainly because it would turn winning the World title into more about being lucky than on skill. This despite the fact that F1 needs major changes to its championship format to stop a huge decline in popularity (particularly here in the US) mainly because fans are tired of the Max Verstappen dynasty & him completely dominating the sport.
Other great F1 championship battles... 1974 (Fittipaldi vs Regazzoni at the Glen), 1976 (not much of a battle during the final race due to all circumstances surrounding it, but Hunt and Lauda in Fuji), 1986 (Prost with a masterclass of equipment conservation in Adelaide defeating both Mansell and Piquet), 1988-90 (Senna vs Prost I, II and III, with a part of the rule you forgot to mention, the discard of points of 1988. Prost had more 'pure' points than Senna, but all drivers discarded their five worst results during the season. Only the best 11 results counted towards the championship. Prost lost 18 points in that, Senna lost only 4. It really showed difference of driving styles between the two and the battle always ended in Japan, before Adelaide), 1999 (maybe even more for what could've been had Schumacher not broken his leg during the season and missed some races), 2006 (man, the Ferrari engine really let Schumacher down in Suzuka, it was supposed to be him coming to Interlagos with the advantage in points), 2008 (that one hurts a lot as a brazilian), 2010 (Petrov trapping Alonso's title hopes and dreams in Yas Marina), 2012 (Alonso going toe-to-toe during the year with a mid Ferrari but ultimate losing to a behemoth RBR). We might not get a lot of seasons coming down to the last race, but every time it does it is special.
US fans withstood Dale and Richard's dynasties and cannot withstand Verstappen's... typical
The Latford system was my favorite and wish it would come back. But obviously there’s no chance of that. I wish they could at least bring back the wild card Chase. Thought that was perfect. Top 10 in points get in, and still have the drama of 2 drivers having to win to get the final 2 spots.
This is why I’m keeping track of my own points system this year. Combining the 12 driver Chase with the elimination style format and adding in a higher points spread. The most interesting part about it is I have the Crown Jewel races counting as double points races, and I’ve added the Bristol Night Race to the group of Crown Jewels. It’s been pretty interesting so far.
There’s never really been a system that has properly awarded wins in a system. Win and your in for the playoffs is way too over the top and previous systems with a five point gap between first and second wasn’t rewarding enough. Winning should be the most important part of a system in racing. I like the idea of the season long points format but I would like to see something like 60 for first, 40 for second, 38 for third, 37 for fourth and so on. There would be a large incentive for winning without over rewarding for winning and it would crown a champion who was consistently good all season and more than likely forcing them to win a few races if they wanted a championship.
NASCAR should go back to chase
2012 and 2013 were the best years of NASCAR racing I followed live
The thing about any championship format is that it is inherently arbitrary. Say you have 2 drivers that have incredible speed and dominate the conversation for an entire season: 1 wins half of the races, but crashes out going for the win every other race. The other driver finishes 5th every race but never fights for the win. Which of those 2 drivers would you say is the best? I know this is a major exaggeration of an example, but it goes to show that there's not always an agreed-upon way to determine who is the best. The only thing that gives rules any form of legitimacy is that all the teams agree to play by them.
The NASCAR Playoff system is not perfect, but it has provided us with some of the greatest moments in the sport's history in a relatively short time, and has rewarded drivers who can turn up the heat at the right time and smoke the competition. It's all arbitrary, so I just go with whatever is fun.
Playoffs is definitely the best, and WINSTON was the worst (because people yap about it all the time and it annoying because they're old)
The Best - Harvick Choking in 2020 - The Worst - Nascar handing Kryle a Championship in 2015
Latford 1975-2003
"its just the wild, wild west." - dennis hamlin.
new points system is a wish of ours that won't be granted tho.
I've always thought the simpler the better. Say in a 40 car grid, 1st place gets 40 points, last place gets 1 point. Whoever led the most laps gets 1 extra point, whoever gained the most positions overall gets 1 extra point, and the winner gets 5 points for winning. You can even keep stages if you want, 1 extra point for the winner of each "stage" excluding the finish, and whoever has the most points at the end of the season is the champion. It doesnt have to be difficult and overcomplicated.
I would love to see a full season format with the points system and stage points we have now. I think it could put on better finishes then the Winston/Latford system did
I've been tooling around with a system that would award 50 points for a win, then 43 for second, decreasing by one point for finishing position until you get to fifth (3=42, 4=41, 5=40). Sixth would get 34 points, decreasing by one point per position until you got to tenth (7=33, 8=32, 9=31, 10=30). Eleventh would get 26 points, and all finishing positions after that would be decreased by one point per position. Finishing thirty-sixth or below would earn one point. Bonus points would be available for: Pole position (1 point), Lead a lap (1 point), Lead the most laps (1 point), Finish on the lead lap (1 point), and Fastest lap during the race (1 point). I think this would still keep the emphasis on winning because the race winner is always going to score the most points in a race, even if the second place car earns all available bonus points, but with the points intervals being tighter it should (theoretically) keep things interesting until late into the season. Do away with the gimmicky stuff like playoffs, stage points/breaks, restart zones, and take it back to a pure consistency-based system.
Either the Latford/Winston cup style system, or the Wild Card format from 2011 through 2014. While today's playoff format does make for excitement all throughout the season, and rewards drivers for having good regular seasons by giving them cushions in the playoffs, the final four, 1-race finale is somewhat underwhelming.
I don't necessarily have a problem with stage racing as it introduces new strategy. My only problem with it is philosophical, in that racing needed stages to be exciting, rather than just let the mileage play out organically. When Kyle Busch was on Pat mcafee, the hosts gave great insight into how casual fans view a race. mcafee said himself that he'll often sit out the first 2 stages and come back towards the end. Is that really what you want?
My favorite format is the Elimination Era from 2014-2016, i always love the “Game 7” moments.
Id argue that as much as the points system changes, the one thing that ruined legitimacy for championship contention was adding provisionals that let slower cars in the field. We bemoan how Kenseth was a champion who didnt win enough but its forgotten that he used 7 provisionals qualifying for races in that year.
If i had to pick a favorite system though itd be the original Chase format if only because if you bizarro world it back to the 1992 season you end up with Kyle Petty as champion and thats its own level of wild.
The provisional system started in 1976 to encourage more participation after only six drivers ran every race in '75. I do think they went too far with it though. Two provisionals per race worked fine from '76-'94. Then sponsors started bitching to NASCAR because their team had one or two races where they weren't fast enough, and it all started going downhill.
So here’s my take on the whole points system. Back then I get it.
With what we have today, I like it for 2 reasons, I don’t love it but I like it. There is something I want to change though.
1 - Every position matters, as it should you increase in points. The higher you finish the more points you get. Stage racing matters so you can get the most points at the end of the race. Plus playoff points matter.
2 - Back then times were different. We live in a world of entertainment and drama. So NASCAR imo did the right thing to change with the times. What creates drama what do other sports do. Oh Playoffs, let’s do that.
2004 - 2010. The system was broken bc imo it didn’t reward the best consistency. 2003 Kenseth wins the title by winning 1 race while Ryan Newman won 8 races, nascar was like something isn’t right.
I purpose for NASCAR, a mix of old and new.
Keep what you have with the points system and playoffs. It creates the most drama as we see at some cutoff tracks.
The new change would be the championship 4 to instead of a 1 race winner take all, to a 3 different tracks whoever has the most points wins. And you bring back must be in the Top 30, I’d change that to either Top 20 or Top 25.
Domination doesn't need to be feared as you said. It should be recognized and praised. Let's keep the current points system, but get rid of stages, and get rid of playoffs/post-season. No more gimmick restarts. Let the races play out naturally
I would like to see the Latford system be used again but simplified. A win gets you 40 last gets you 1 point, leading a lap would be a bonus of 10, lead the most laps you get 50 for a maximum total of 100 points.
Easy to follow and to use for the fan and non-fan alike.
Wait, you're saying leading the most laps is worth 50 extra points while winning the race is only worth 1 over finishing second?
@@eth3792 Might need to tweak things a bit. Didn't really think about it that way but I see it now.
Can we talk about stage racing and how it’s killing the strategy in racing and making all teams run nearly the same pit strategy. I miss the organic racing. 300 laps of green flag racing is still exciting! Indy car still has entertaining racing without manufacturing it.
@@jaydenmccash1332 because A. They don’t have stage breaks, and B. They use a season long points format just like nascar used to have.
Racing is not stick and ball sports. Racing is supposed to reward consistency and hard work over a period of time. F1 is so popular right now because they embrace that. A top 3 is a huge deal and the points carry over all year plus there isnt a lot of points to be had per weekend so every point is crucial. I dont think anyone out there looks at a F1 race and a Nascar race and says the F1 race was more fun to watch. F1 is exploding in popularity though and i think its because they embrace tradition.
The f1 hype will wear off once people fail to realize the actual racing itself isn't good.
it's simpler than this: for NFL, MLB, NBA and NHL the playoffs make sense because you either have too many games during the year or cannot face every other team during the season. In nascar you face everyone, in different kinds of tracks.
If you can face everyone in that circumstance there shpuld be no playoff
You see I got in the sport in 2022, cause of Martinsville. I don't know I kinda like the playoffs, maybe cause am not a boomer, I watched rally and as a European it shows that you have to be on top of your game every weekend, if your not winning then your not trying hard enough cause the cars are basically spec and with that being said , I kinda like it. Tho kinda need it to have a roadcource and some oval in the final 4 championship to see who is actually the best. If needs be then they could copy F1s format, but that'll be boring (well max)
F1 sucks
@@Noman1010-nh6uhthis season has been a banger so far since the RB20 went down the shitter races have gotten so unpredictable
Under F1 points, Reddick would have an 11 point lead over Larson, with Bell only two points behind Larson. F1's point system is fine, lack of competition is their problem.
You've just exactly described the problem with playoffs in NASCAR. You say that you have to "on the top of your game every weekend", but the sport is basically WWE, so you can be at the top of your game and somebody decides to wreck you, or you just run over a piece of debris and it doesn't matter. A season-long points system equalizes things that are out of your control for a single race.
Here’s my idea. Keep the current playoffs and points format but completely get rid of the “win and you’re in” system across the board. Regular season and playoffs. I think that would be very interesting
Latford makes all the races matter but there should be more points for winning. The current playoff system alot of the races do not matter.
I have argued this many times I would love to see the laperd system with added the stage racing I personally don't hate the stage racing, like a lot of people do. But if you're going to keep the current style of point system I think what needs to be added is getting a point for leading a lap in each stage and then getting three points if you lead the most laps in the entire race,
Crazy but true. If NASCAR never got rid of the Lapford system, 2006, 2008, and 2009 would all be decided by less than 10 points. In 2006, Kenseth beats Johnson by 1. In 2008, Johnson beats Edwards by 4. In 2009, Johnson beats Gordon by 6.
Motorsports do not need playoffs. What made me dislike the current 16 driver elimination format even further was people comparing it to stick and ball sports. It lacks legitimacy. Kevin Harvick, Jeff Gordon, and the worst NASCAR screwjob in NASCAR history, Carl Edwards In 2016 drivers intentionally crashing each other because of the playoffs. To tell you the truth about the playoffs format, I don't like it. Motorsports do not need playoffs.
The Original Chase Format With The 2004-2006 10 Driver/2004-2013 10 Race Format With Chase Points For The NASCAR Cup Series.
But The Worse Is Not Only The Current 2014-Present Elimination Playoff System For The NASCAR Cup Series, But Also, The 2016-Elimination Playoff System For The NASCAR Xfinity Series And The NASCAR Craftsman Truck Series.
I would be really happy with bringing Latford system back. But I also think Chase format (especially 2007-2010 and 2011-2013) was pretty good too. Add playoff points to that and I think we have the best of both worlds where we have more excitement and more emphasis on winning and at the same time all-year-long performance is rewarded. I really think Championship 4 finale is more anticlimatic than someone clinching title a few weeks before the season's end. I know it may sound counterintuitive but I feel like, yes, there's a tension and you really don't know what's gonna happen by the end of the race but at the same time all these storylines, these mind games (like Stewart v Edwards in 2011), this whole culmination of the final duel between season's protagonists - it's all gone. We don't see a year-long or at least playoff-long fight for the championship. Instead we have a fight for making another round and then just a shootout for the championship. Although I love NASCAR and I still watch races and follow the season closely, I just feel last race of the season doesn't feel as special as it used to
The thing that is so so so sad is that all nascar had to do is stretch out points rewarded and bonus points in the Latford system and things would make so much more sense
A system that better rewards dominence during the regular season is needed. The fact Penske picked up two trophies via lackluster seasons is a problem.
I'd take the Latford system or the 2004-06 format any day over the Playoffs we have now
What i really wanna see is a stage type racing where we still have stages and points to the top 10 but no cautions at the stages. I just miss the days where the races just ran and if theres a caution theres a caution.
My idea for a new system is an actual bracket system. Forget playoff points and “win and you’re in”, keep the current format for normal points, and keep stages but don’t throw cautions for them. At the end of the regular season take the top 16 in points and rank them according to their placement. In the playoffs there’s still three race rounds but over each round each driver only races to eliminate one other driver (1 vs 16, 2 vs 15, 3 vs 14, and so on). This would go onto the round of 8 and then the championship race can be the same to give nascar the “game 7” moment they want. It would result in one less playoff round but I think we can all agree the playoffs are too long anyways. I feel this way it creates a more accurate final four while still allowing upsets if a bottom seed driver races his ass off in the playoff and still giving nascar the entertainment aspect they want the playoffs to have.
There’s absolutely nothing good that I find with the current format. It’s unrewarding, and really it makes the title hollow.
Full Season is easily the best. Yeah you’ll get clunker years where someone runs away with it, but it just makes the dramatic seasons that much better. Look at F1, Max absolutely destroyed them last year.. and the year before, but 2021 was historically great, and 2024 is actually shaping up to be a fight unless Red Bull figures life out. “Game 7” in the NBA/MLB is special, and it doesn’t happen everytime.
I don't mind runaway or dominant wins, what was a big no-no was championships getting clinched early or with so few wins, like what happened in 1995,7, and 2003
Really all they had to do was just make it like 25 points between 1st and 2nd not this unbelievably stupid format Latford system was great because it rewarded you for being consistent the 1992 title shows that you don’t have to manufacture a bad format to manufacture drama
Another con of the Latford system which you implied but didn’t directly say: “Good points day.” That was what drivers were going for. The hail melon wouldn’t have been thought of in that era. Unlikely even for a win
I loved the latford system the best. But a merger of the current system and the original chase would be interesting. Instead of win and in, it would be the top 10 in points battling it out with points awarded like the current system.
championship should be earned not given
i like what we have but want to change 2 things.
1. I like the emphasis on winning but a fluke winner shouldnt qualify. I say 100 bonus points for a win. That way it naturally keeps the people buried in points out of the playoff.
2. I would like to see a 9 race 12 team "playoff" and have a 3 race finale. Not a fan of the final race deciding it all.
Kyle Busch winning the championship after missing 11 races in 2015 is the best argument for a full season championship going. Under the Latford system he would have finished 28th at best.
Give me the Latford system, but with 180 points for 1st place to ensure the race winner gets the most points after bonuses are added
The Latford system, but simplify the points to what we have now, and do away with stages and the playoffs, and that would be perfect imo.
The best would be the Latford System but simplified, i. e. 1 point per position. I don't hate the playoffs but I hate the win-and-you're-in... mostly. We can keep it but NASCAR has to have some standards. I say, unless you're in the top-20 in points by regular season's end, you don't make the playoffs. I also don't like the winner-take-all final race. Let's do a round of 3 to decide the champion. Keep the playoffs but I beg for theses simple changes.
The best of the pre 2004 format: A true champion was always crowned until Matt Kenseth "was undeserving of his title with 1 win" even with a VERY consistent season.
The best of the 2024 Playoff format: You can't win a championship without winning many races (until someone like Matt Crafton exposed it in 2019 and Ryan Newman nearly exposed it in 2014.)
I mean, he was a weak winner compared to Jeff Gordon, and had the same personality that almost every driver in the field today has: bland, boring, unimpressive
@@S.K.R.E.Inc. It doesn’t matter. The chase format has gotten way more screwed with than it initially was intended to. Even the 2004-2013 format wasn’t a complete loss IMO besides maybe screwing Gordon out of a couple championships. And Kenseth got his DESERVED championship for finishing only 11 races outside the top 10 and only having 4 races with a finish worse than 20th.
@@hendomac20 He still screwed the format for the rest of the drivers, especially Jeff Gordon
S.K.R.E that exact shit of a season crowned our 1992 champion and no one bitched about it
@@masoneveridge4078Because it was close. If Johnson, Earnhardt and Gordon each had one-two fewer bad races and were still in contention, no one would have complained about Matt winning.
I even said at the end of 2003 going into '04, keep the latford system but give the winner max 200 points. I don't even keep up with the current points now, just who has won, because that's all that matters now, win and you're in. Still a fan of the Latford system, just tweak it a bit.
I’d say the 10 race chase was a good medium. Everything else is either too chaotic or too boring for the most part
Now there are some seasons where a full season format would be better
There are some where the playoffs would be better
But imo the perfect medium is the 10 race chase
Winston format was best
The only thing I'll say is none of the champions should be called "illegitimate" regardless of the points system they won under. The drivers don't make the rules. It rubs me the wrong way for people to trash them because of the points system.
They are called illegitimate because of the points system and what ranking they are but usually the shitting is on Nascar
Joey Logano is an illegitimate champion he would have 0 under the Winston cup format
@Yankeedoodle. Did he win thr championship following the rules provided by the sanctioning body? If yes, then his championships are legitimate.
@@MrGunlover12 legitimate is means very little in the terms of following the rules legitimate champions are champions who were undeniably the best driver all year
I'm always thinking of the Latford system and if it could actually just be in that simplified way as they tried. It's a tough question about insuring the best overall performance will be rewarded and in the same time making sure the wins are rewarded best. The system I use in my "fantasy" world has exactly that - The winner gets double the points of the second, the 5th gets double the points of the 6th and the 10th gets double the points of the 11th. I still consider the play-offs, but I'm definitely ditching the "win and you're in" policy. Not that anyone needs it if you get such big gaps between each finish. The cutline would just fall at P16. But I still am considering ditching them altogether since if the final is no "winner takes all", then what is the point for having the play-offs at all?
I like the Latford system, if it was brought back i would use the simpler points system like today to give out points
The best thing NASCAR can do is go back to a season long championship with the current points system (unless they do away with stages). Unfortunately, that will never happen and the championship will forever be illegitimate.
I think the Playoffs have something good but need a proper 3 race final round. Brings the best out of the chase and the Playoffs, and will award the best drivers once again if the Playoff points continue to carry over
2011 without the chase is perfect. That would be my vote all day long. I even have a Facebook group where I’ve gone in and did the points for every NASCAR season in history with the 2011 system without the Chase. So many different and actually deserving champions. If you wanted to have a chase then they need to reward people for their consistency. Top 10 at the end of the race get chase points. Kinda how a stage winner gets a playoff point now. The whole point of the latford and 2011 system (minus the Chase) is to reward average finishing position. That way you can reset the points, but the person who has had a great season doesn’t get screwed.
Id like to see the latford system...revised make 1st place worth 50pts. 2nd gets 40 then subtract 1 pts per position. 5 pts for a lap led. 5 pts for most laps led. Keep the stages but remove the cautions. Thats the fix. Removed win and youre in. Easy to understand and it makes winning more important while dignifying season long performance.
I really liked the simplified system from 2011. I dont think we even need the Chase or Playoffs under that points format to have a good finish
The Winston format could have just made wins worth like 20 or 30 extra points to make wins more exciting and a possibility to make up for ground in the last few weeks. I think that would have been a better choice than the playoffs or the Chase.
As much as I'd like to have a full season format with stage points included, I don't think we'll see the format drop a playoff mini-season at any point.
I think what would be a good balance is re-incorporate the run of the Chase with the two wildcard slots and stage racing. Encourage placing first and running up high consistently throughout the race with stage points with no lock-in slots for winning. Make every race matter, make repairing cars mid-race matter, every point matters. No round system, no stage breaks, nothing. You keep your playoff points at the start of the Chase. Make the playoffs worth fighting for instead of having guys who don't really belong there exit early (no offense to Harrison Burton, kid earned his win but he's not making it far in the playoffs) and a random champion from a group of 4 drivers who finished highest in the last race.
I would like to see the Latford system comeback, but have points to go to 200 for winning 175 for second place, 160 for third then 150 to fourth with points dropping by five for each position after. Top 30 gets points and rest after 30th place are out of luck. I am fine with stage points as is. I would award 25 points for most laps lead and 5 points for leading lap with pole winner getting 25 points as bonus and ways tonprotect someone who finishes outside top 30 to get some points.
Nah, it should be bigger. 500 for 1st, 200 for 2nd, 150 for 3rd, 100 for 4th, 50 for 5th, the rest get nothing
S.K.R.E that points format is more flawed then the fucking prize money for points bullshit
I feel like people underestimate the effect that the points format has on how drivers race. Sure you can keep track of the Winston points format but ultimately that is meaningless. The rules aren’t changed halfway through a season. From the start in Daytona they know the format and to think a team’s strategy during the year would be the same in a season long format compared to the playoffs is silly. As soon as one driver makes a decision based on playoffs, the butterfly effect causes the whole Winston Points format to be meaningless.
If my driver doesn’t win, I hope for one of two things to happen:
1 Harrison Burton squeaks through the playoffs and wins the championship.
OR
2. Martin Truex wins the championship without a single win.
Old Winston Cup! Make a few tweaks to it and that would be more legit than the garbage we have
I believe that the best point system that we could have is the same way that they do for race is currently, but eliminating the playoffs altogether and the stage cautions. It's almost like the Latford system in many ways, but at least keeps things simple for modern audiences.
This is the argument i use against people who claim Petty was the best driver. He won most of his championships where points were determined based on laps completed when he was the only driver with factory support that could afford to run every race. He basically won by default
As a completely unbiased Tony Stewart fan, the wild card chase is easily the best postseason format, and I’d probably choose it as my favorite points format as well since it was what was used at my peak of Nascar fandom before coming back after Chicago last year.
Latford system all the way but I would like a full season point system that gives the winner at least 20 more points then the second place guy and bring back leading lap points.
If we had less races than we currently have to an extent I'd be fine with a winston cup format just awarding more points for wins
I Like 1975 NASCAR Winston Cup Series Point System From The 70s 80s And Early 90s In My Opinion Thanks For Uploading
The Top 10 seeded by wins with 2 Wild Card drivers for winners in the Top 20 was the best format imo.
Dale Earnhardt Sr won 7 championships with the Latford system, shows his raw talent
He was the best dumb kids these days don’t even know
He was my favorite I was only 12 years old when he died but he was my favorite for 5 years I still miss him alot
The current format would be the best if the championship wasn’t 1 race but instead most points scored in 3 races like the previous 3 rounds (round of 16, 12, & 8).
I like this current format cause it creates entertainment. Which isn’t a bad thing. The hail melon never would’ve happened if it wasn’t for this format
The Latford System is, and will continue to be, the best system ever implemented by NASCAR. So simple that it was designed on a napkin and used for decades.
Am I the only one who wants to see the the 1973 point system return for the regular season and then a modified chase format for the final 10 races? There are a lot of longer tracks on the schedule now so now it’s not as broken. Most road courses are longer than 1.5 miles, so they will mean more than normal. Adding 5 point bonuses to the top 3 per stage in short track races will make it more balanced too since it would be .25*laps completed so a lead lap finish and finishing 2nd in every stage would be .25*500=125, then 125+98=223 and then an extra 5 points per top 3 in stage would be 238 points for the race. It’s complicated but I think it would work. You could also reward consistency by adding an extra 50 points for every 5 straight races that you finish in the top 10 in for balance since winning a short track race and placing top 3 in every stage would still be like finishing 32nd 10 laps down at a Daytona or talladega race.
I really like the Winston Cup series points system to determine the Champion 🏆.
You need tbe Latford system with the current way points are handed out.
That was biggest problem up to 2003 was too many points handed out.
I say mix the Latford system and the Wildcard system and the Playoff system. So each position is worth 1 point winner getting 40 second 35 third 34 and down. But each win counts for 5 bonus points top 12 make the chase on points and first in points gets a 30 point buffer second 25 third a 20 fourth a 15 fifth a 10 and no one else gets any bonus points. No elimination
And bar the entire field outside the chase from competing
@@S.K.R.E.Inc. No they should be allowed to compete
Honestly, I kind of like the current points system (even spread across the board from 2nd down to 36th), I just wish it rewarded wins with more points instead of being this magical golden ticket that got you in the playoffs. If it was maybe 100 points for a win instead of 40 plus a guaranteed playoff spot, I feel like it would both be rewarding for drivers who won, but also promote consistency the entire year so you didn't just win once and sleep the rest of the year.
And yes, I know we're probably stuck with this playoff format for who knows how long, but I seriously wish they'd at least make it more than 1 race to crown a champion... I'd also like to see how the "in season tournament" looks next year and, if it does well, maybe have them take notes from it if they do continue with a "playoff style" post season.
1972-2003 was the best
I think the current playoff system is close to what would be best. 2 major changes i would make, get rid of win and in. Reward winning with a large point bonus, maybe 50 points for a win vs. 40. 2nd, the championship race needs help. 3 solutions, make the round of 4 a 3 race playoff, and make the round of 16 one race, make both 16 and 4 a 2 race format, or the most likely, make points matter in the championship race. If Kyle Larson dominates, wins 2 stages, and finishes second to Denny Hamlin, who got zero stage points but wins, Larson would then be the champion. Stages and points in the championship race literally mean nothing, and that's a problem. So let playoff points carry into the championship race and continue to let drivers earn those points during the race and see where they are at races' end.
I'm not saying I want a playoff format, but if you're going to do it, let's do it right.
12 races. 4 rds of 3 races each. High seed vs. low seed throughout each round (just like in all other playoff formats). Then in the Championship Round, the remaining 4 drivers battle of the final 3 races on points, not just who finishes ahead in one race.
I feel like that would add some legitimacy to the format that it severely lacks.
Latford system by a large margin
@@dereckreinhart462 without a doubt
I personally love the old Winston Cup points system the best as well.