Winston, but the current points system with no playoffs could be far better, with the extra win incentive and less punishment for wrecking, it still can create very clutch moments.
@@ZPaul_ I’ll agree to that He could’ve been the best this year but he constantly oveedrove it when he didn’t need to. I wouldn’t doubt he would’ve spun or wrecked it in the charlotte race with the way he raced this year
@@espo9505 no, without that Nashville luck he doesn’t make the playoffs. He was running outside the top 10. Without bowman getting dq he doesn’t make the round of 8. They didn’t play it to perfection they weren’t good overall. They were the 6th best in the playoffs. The only wins he deserved was Atlanta in the playoffs and Pheonix which even then he wasn’t the best car just had a good restart. His year was luck. Next year he’ll suck and I wouldn’t be surprised if he either doesn’t make the playoffs or is a round of 16 exit like 2023
@timechanger9162 Logano has just been off these past 2 years. Even in 2024 he was nowhere to be found for a good 3/4 of the season. Sure he won the championship but there’s a big asterisk next to it.
This is why I want a full season points system back. Season long points battles creates a storyline and something to follow over the season. Plus with the next gen creating lots of parody and bringing the competition closer it’s gonna be harder for someone to run away with the point lead.
Exactly!! The current system has fans and media paying attention to the 16th and 17th place drivers in points. Nascar should be highlighting their star drivers! We should be focused on the top 5 in points. This car would make for an amazing season long points system. It would create real drama, not manufactured drama!
@@S.K.R.E.Inc. as an F1 fan that is the biggest issue with the currents points format in that series because in recent years Max Verstappen has completely dominated & usually has clinched the championship with 4-5 races to go. At least this season, McLaren & Lando Norris are giving Max a championship fight, though if Max wins in Vegas tomorrow night, the title is pretty much wrapped up for him.
@@chrisguardiano6143 well the thing is, F1 is not as equal as NASCAR. So some years you'll have title battles and others that are dominant. But hey, at least its consistent and rewards actual good drivers who did well in an entire season. Like my god, could you imagine Max not being champion just bc someone crashed into him in Abu Dhabi?
0:17 HE SAID THE THING! Also, tell me why NASCAR on FOX has the nerve to have 4 options to vote on "Driver of the Year," but CHRISTOPHER BELL IS NOT ONE OF THEM?!?
I feel so bad for Christopher Bell man, outside of the current system bro is basically doing everything he needs to do to win a title. I am sure he will win a title some day, he just has that knack for surging late in the year. He will be a champion one day. I am not a fan of these playoffs.
He definitely had a great year. The one thing that hurt him was the fact he didn't win a race since June. He had plenty of speed but he just couldn't close the deal a number of weeks
The fact that Logano wouldn’t have even made the Chase says how bad this system is. Time for NASCAR to go back to a system where all 36 races matter instead of the last one.
So annoying how we couldve had the best championship battle since 1992 (the greatest season in NASCAR history) if we had the Winston format with Bell winning by FIVE POINTS. But no instead we got some cheap undeserving champion in logano
I recall as a kid following NASCAR from 1968 to '71 that the points system had me puzzled, as the print media of the era did not publish articles to explain the structure of the points system; and TV coverage of races was scant. Instead, print media such as Autoweek would publish the results of the races and the points standings for the drivers, which was Richard Petty, Bobby Isaac, and James Hylton in the thick of it. At the time it puzzled me how the winless Hylton, that just motored around in mid-pack, was always in close contention to points leader Petty, even with Petty tearing up the tracks with multiple wins in the season. Ah! as The Iceberg pointed out here, it was the Mileage points system that kept Hylton in contention.
Hylton played the point systems of his day better than anybody. He still holds the record for most races as points leader of any non-champion. He'd always finish just a position or two behind Petty on the short tracks, only losing a couple of points and then gain tons of points by finishing the big races when Petty or Isaac blew up. Eight top four point finishes with only seven career lead lap finishes. Crazy stuff.
@@seannolan9857 (in an appreciative tone) Ah! Thanks for the feedback! Good to know my memories from over a half-century ago was not completely faulty. Though my comment about Hylton being a mid-pack racer (based upon my following the big track races of the era, as I paid little mind to the short track results) was a bit exaggerated. Although I don't recall the exact wording of the Autoweek banner headline when Hylton won his first Cup race at Richmond in 1970, it was expressed with a *WOW!* intention by that print publication; as the world of NASCAR seemed to react with amazement with his accomplishment.
Hylton was an independent driver who knew how to take care of his equipment. He may have only won two races, but 140 top 5s and 301 top 10s in 601 races is pretty good given what he had to work with. Granted, a lot of the pre-modern era races had smaller car counts, but still. If he was driving for a factory team, I guarantee he would have a lot more than 2 wins.
So, basically, under the Latford system, the battle for the title would be very similar to that of 1992. With Chase Elliott being the 1992 Bill and Bell being in the rolę of 1992 Alan Kulwicki. We were robbed by the playoffs
I'm currently not invested in Nascar because the champion for the year means nothing for who did best that year, just who got luckiest and unluckiest in specific sections of the season. If they get rid of playoffs I will 100% come back to Nascar. It's not a coincidence I stopped watching in 2015-2016.
Current Playoff Format (2017 - Present): Joey Logano "Elimination Chase" Playoff Format (2014 - 2016): Joey Logano "Wild Card Chase" Playoff Format (2011 - 2013): Christopher Bell "12 Man Chase" Playoff Format (2007 - 2010): Christopher Bell "OG Chase" Playoff Format (2004 - 2006): Christopher Bell "Latford System" Playoff Format (1975 - 2003): Christopher Bell "Finish and Laps" Playoff Format (1972 - 1974): Chase Elliott "Mileage" Playoff Format (1968 - 1971): Chase Elliott "Pioneer Years" Playoff Format (1949 - 1967): Christopher Bell Results: #1 - Christopher Bell with 5 Different Playoff Systems (Pioneer Years, Latford, OG, 12 Man Chase, and the Wild Card Chase). #2 - Tie (Chase Elliott and Joey Logano [Elliott with Finish and Laps, as well as Mileage. Logano with the Elimination Chase, and Today's Format]).
'74 used a totally different system than '72-'73. While impossible to prove without actual monetary totals, William Byron likely would have won that. '49-'51 also has a very different system from '52-'67.
Simple at the Winston cup points in 2024 Christopher Bell would be you're 2024 champion by 5 points over chase Elliot and any points system in the Winston cup or chase for the cup is way better than what we have now but NASCAR doesn't even see that.
Christopher Bell should file his own lawsuit for championship robbery. He would have been the new Jimmie Johnso if they kept the chase before the march madness bracket format.
The 2004-2013 Chase still at least felt like a fair balance between entertainment and fairness even if Jimmie almost destroyed the format imagine the stories that we were robbed of bc of the playoffs. Also here would be the other 2024 champions under Winston: Christian Eckes (Trucks) Chandler Smith (Xfinity)
Go Back To The Original Chase Format With The 2004-2006 10 Driver/2004-2013 10 Race Format With Chase Points and NO More Points Resets Only For The NASCAR Cup Series Again, Rather Than The Elimination Playoffs Format From 2014. STOP CHANGING THE FORMAT, AND LEAVE IT ALONE!!!!! But Alao... For The NASCAR Xfinity Series And The NASCAR Craftsman Truck Series, Get Rid Of The Elimination Playoff Format From 2016, And Bring Back The Full-Season Winston Cup Points Format.
I grew up during the Chase area and really appreciated that playoff format as my favorite driver won a lot. I mainly valued you had to perform early in the season and then you also after the start of the playoffs at the continue to elevate your game and perform, but I felt like you had enough of a sample size that was really indicative, the performance I do wish that there had been a penalty on struggling earlier in the season as several times one of the hottest drivers during most of the season would miss the playoffs because they had several DNF or bad races at the start they used to take eight or nine races to make up for the Daytona 500, which almost always crashed him
Keep the points the way they are now, even keep the stages (either no cautions or dont count the caution laps after the stage) 1 point for leading a lap, 3 points for leading the most, and make it 60 points for a win then 35 for 2nd, 34 for 3rd, etc, etc. You keep the stages to promote hard racing, and you give the huge advantage for winning so the whole kenseth 1 win scenario is almost impossible. And get rid of the DVP. It was always awesome to see the effort the teams put in just to get a couple of points.
The 1974 format was actually based on total winnings as a harsh reaction against the 1972-73 format. I messed around with the standings for that format and I actually have William Byron winning that format thanks to the Daytona 500 win paying significantly more than the other formats.
As an F1 fan in addition to NASCAR, I wanted to see who would be the champion if NASCAR adopted F1 style points where only the top 10 finishers get points. Based on the calculations, it would actually be Kyle Larson who would be the champion simply because of the fact he won more races than anyone else (even though he missed the Coke 600) & the current F1 points format rewards those who win the most races. This is the main reason why Max Verstappen has completely dominated F1 in recent years because he has almost every race. The F1 style points format also didn't generate competitive points battles & there were large gaps between the rest of the drivers that finished in the top 5. One thing that is different between the points systems in NASCAR & F1 is that in F1, they give out bonus points for winning the sprint race (which happens at most races) & for the fastest lap something that NASCAR does not do. If NASCAR did have those two things, Larson's margin of victory would be larger than what it was.
That’s not how it would work in NASCAR though, even in F1 rules don’t say 10 drivers, they say half the grid. Therefore, the top half of the grid would get points, not 10 people within NASCAR
Pioneer:Christopher Bell Mileage:Chase Elliott Finish and Laps:Chase Elliott Latford:Christopher Bell Original Chase:Christopher Bell 12-Man Chase:Christopher Bell Wild Card:Christopher Bell The Playoffs:Joey Logano The Playoffs (With stages):Joey Logano
Elliott’s driving style is old school. He is consistent and steady. He doesn’t make any crazy moves and take himself out of races when he doesn’t need to. But under the current system, those crazy moves and aggressive driving are rewarded. Just look at somebody like Larson. He makes over aggressive moves when he doesn’t have to, but he wins a lot because of that.
Personally I like some blend of the latford system but I will say Nascar got exactly what it wanted with this format. A mid season packed full of people trying desperately to get in while we follow cars effectively who had run mid pack. This is engagement we hadn ever seen in the summer lull. A clean slate post season where its do or die and the guy doing the most in that time won in the end. For all the murmur of a points change, I seriously doubt well see that any time soon
Another question, why have final race of year at same track? Each year should be different track. Do a road coarse, do a short track, do a super speedway .
That's true, I like the idea of the playoffs but not the current format because is way too artificial, I'm not a fan of the win and you're in during the regular season. But for the playoffs, I'm kinda torn between having and not having win and you're in because that actually puts more emphasis on winning, makes more important but also more pick performers can have deep runs undeservingly so yeah you can't have everything. Entertainment wise this format is great for either good or bad, but from a legitimate championship points system for a racing series, that's way too artificial
Congrats to Joey. He did what had to do in this system. For racing full season is best but since nascar won’t do that. Go to 3 3 race playoff rounds. Top 12 regular season points leaders get in playoffs each round 12th- 3rd get 1 point for 12th place 10 points for 3rd. 2nd gets 12. Regular season champ gets 15. You can keep the win and your in for anyone that wins a regular season race but not in top 12. He would start each round with 0 points. The winner of each round gets 30 points. 27 for 2nd. Etc. After the 3 rounds are complete the driver with the most points is the champion. Also can add 1 point per win to the drivers total. Example round 1 the driver finished 3rd he gets 24 points rd 2 gets 4th that’s 21 points rd 3 he wins that round so 30 points for a 3 rd total of 75 points and let’s say he wo 3 races so his final total would be 78 points. Now during the playoff round if they want to award extra points like 1 point for a stage win and make a race win worth 2 instead of 1. With this system is it perfect no but at least the top drivers of the regular season are not eliminated because of a bad round and the win and your in drivers will have earned it by having to race good for all 3 rounds. Obviously points can be tweaked but this was just an example. On a side note have separate points systems for playoff and non playoff drivers. This would eliminate some problems and they mediate don’t really even mention them now unless they are in the way. It would give them an extra story line to talk about
That's terrible. Especially in the playoffs, winning is of utmost importance. The biggest flaw in the playoff format, is that the champion can get crowned for not even winning the championship race. That's just wrong.
I don’t know we just modern the lateford system. I’ve on this for a while. 200 for first 180 for second 175 3rd. Minus 5 till 10th. Subtract 4 points 11th-25th subtract 3 26th to last. Bonus point time. 10 for a lap 15 for the half way mark only under green. 20 points most laps led. 30 points for season lap leader. No cut offs straight 36 races sure 2 breaks
This is another thing I hate about the playoffs. Because of NASCAR's perpetual lack of faith in their own sport, we've missed out on so many thrilling natural title fights over the years. (Also, maybe I just want math in my title fights, damn it. I want a battle where one driver needs to finish in a certain spot to win it all while the others need to come in clutch and also need some help. Instead of a guaranteed "Game 7 moment", maybe I want at least a small chance of NASCAR's answer to "Is that Glock?") Also the fact that you didn't even adknowledge that monstrosity of a 1974 system is hilarious.
the current 2017-present system season long is my favorite to follow, most realistic in terms or hypotheticals since stage racing has such a big effect on how they race for points. Larson wins the champ +22 over Bell with 1185 points despite missing the Coke 600
I'm hating both. I agree, he played the system perfectly, I just haven't been a fan of him for years. Him and Hamlin are my most disliked drivers, and it's been that way for years.
I like this playoff I mean you get to see whoever made it to the playoffs. They elimination actually race each other in the final race. You guys just want to see your favorite driver win with ease within the last 2 to 3 races and going to the final race just coasting around 10th
Joey Logano had as many Top 5s as Teammate Ryan Blaney had in DNFs, as many Top 10s as William Byron had in Top 5s, as many Top 15s as Teammate Ryan Blaney, Kyle Larson & Denny Hamlin had in Top 10s, as many Top 20s as William Byron & Tyler Reddick had in Top 10s which mirrors as many Sub 20s as Kyle Larson & Christopher Bell had in Top 5s which included as many DNFs as Kyle Larson had in Wins in route to The 2024 Championship
What if Owner Points were based on a Latford-style season-long system, and the Drivers Points Championship was determined in a more sensical playoff format? This could deter the race manipulation that occurred at Martinsville.
The playoff format we have currently needs work but a case was made today of all days that the Winston format or season long format isn't the way either. Max Verstappen won his 4th straight F1 championship today. Did you hear or see massive amounts of excitement over it? During the post race it seemed Russell winning was more important than Max winning the championship. It was dull. Not exciting at all. Yes he deserved it but there has to be a middle ground.
Great video, just one caveat- Joey Logano didn’t win in this system. He was eliminated. A penalty of a different driver made him advance after being eliminated.
I agree with the guy who said all this systems are better than this garbage Bell should be your champion regardless go back to 2003 Matt Kenseth and consistency
When you went through each era, did you use the points awards for each era or the current one in which you can gain a maximum of 60 points per race as today's points work? When you mentioned Larson missing the Coca Cola 600, you said he missed out on potentially 124 points. I was expecting this analysis to cover the points today but without the Chase/"playoffs". It doesn't matter how NASCAR awards points at the end of each race. What matters is how the points total up from the all those races combined, excluding the ones taken away in penalties, to determine the champion, as it was from 1948-2003. A far more legitimate way compared to NASCAR arbitrarily dumping in 1000 or so points with 10 or less races to go for a select number of drivers and saying "Good luck." to them.
2011-2013 format would have been perfectly fine and fair ul until this moment. I think they only changed it because Jimmie won again in 2013 and they got tired of the 48 lol as we all did..
If Nascar keeps the playoffs (which they will) it should be the top 10 in points and no win and your in. Also, abolish the elimination rounds in the playoffs. Just 10 races with 10 drivers for the full 10 races.
I was thinking of "they would perform different under different format" and shouldn't they perform 100% at every race by the rules? Shouldn't it be manipulation if you're putting an effort in only certain races?
Wish you would have done other racing series point systems. F1 has a season long championship but there is a lot more reward for winning than the Latford system. I get tired of saying that you can either have the stupid playoffs/chase etc. or you can have Latford, but nothing else.
It’s funny Bell would have won 58/76 times but everyone was mad about Joey bc they thought Larson was more deserving when he wouldn’t have won in any system 🤷♂️
Living in the past. Not even a Penske fan but they dominated the playoff system. Time to move on. Drivers like Elliot, Bell and Hamlin decent finishes during the playoffs but were too conservative and never really threatened to win races.
I made a post on twitter of the season if they had run it in reverse (starting in Phoenix and championship race being Daytona 500) It was a pretty interesting season and Byron ended up the Champion with a final 4 of Elliott, Larson, Byron and Bell
Plug in the results from this year without playoffs and without stages. Stage racing is anothet gimmick that needs to be gone, and Elliott is the champ with no gimmicks
It's time for NASCAR to change things up. The current Championship is flawed and it has been since 2014. I do understand that NASCAR wanted to attempt to bring more excitement but I can comfortably say that I'm not the only one that wants changes. Is it possible to make everyone happy at the same time? The driver's long for competitiveness, they want to be rewarded for consistency and excellence to bring more legitimacy to the end of season championship. The fans desperately want more excitement to be more engaged. The media should want the same. NASCAR desperately wants to keep the media appeased. The teams strive for engagement, team excellence, legitimacy, and excitement surrounding their sponsor partners. Speaking of the sponsors, they want Roi, in the form of advertising, fan engagement, and competitive season long exposure. Sure seems like a lot right. But I feel after much consideration of everyone's needs, that I may have found a solution to satisfy everyone's desire for more beneficial and satisfying season championship. So without further ado let's shake up this off season snow globe and see where this might go. Beginning in 2024 college football did a little earthquake of their own and shook up their championship format to be more broad and inclusive to not just 4 opportunities but 12. I don't know about you, but I feel this has been a season-long game changer that allows more opportunities for teams to achieve season long legitimacy and exposure to fans, the media, and recruits alike. NASCAR should take note. Is my proposal the best? I doubt it but I feel it is a huge step in the right direction to better appease the changes all stakeholders want so badly. Time to break it down. What I propose is splitting the season into 3, yes 3 sections (praise Dale and raise hell). With 36 points paying races, that means 12 races per section. The first third of the Season would be pretty basic with one exception. Daytona, being one of NASCAR's Crown Jewel races, competitors would receive double the points scored! The next 11 races, teams would continue to accrue regular points. This brings us to section 2. Here's where things start to get interesting. Only the top 24 race finishers score points! But wait there's more! The Coke 600 and Indy also being Crown Jewel races in my book, would be award double points for the top 24 race finishing drivers. At the end of section 2 almost nobody is completely out but no one is entirely safe. Now section 3, yep you guessed it, time to put your foot down and nose to the grindstone because for the final races, points are only awarded to the top 12 finishers of each race. In this section Crown Jewel double points races are Darlington the Bristol night race and the season finale! So no more "Golden Ticket" for winning a rain shortened race, or the occasional lucky win. It's time to " reach on up and pull them belts tight" it's time to show the world what you're made of. Can you imagine the heightened drama of the media could benefit from? The drivers would experience a truer competitiveness not felt in years, not to mention a season-long urgency to fight for consistent excellence to achieve legitimate champ status come season end. The sponsors would truly get their Roi they expect. Finally NASCAR would be able to boast season long excitement, offering a show for the fans that is compelling, engaging, and nostalgic from Daytona clear to Phoenix!
SHAMCAR-where a driver could theoretically win every one of the first 26 races, win every stage of the gawdawful stage racing in the first 26 races yet through purely bad luck in the first couple races of the "playoffs" have no chance to win the Championship. It would be hilarious if a non-chartered team managed to qualify for 5 races over the regular season and win one of SHAMACAR's sh!tshow races, get into the playoffs, score a big money sponsorship deal and win the Championship. SHAMCAR probably has a rule against that but if possible think how ludicrous that would make SHAMCAR's point system work.
If Nascar wants to keep the playoff system they should add a full season system to seasons too so we can have possibly 2 champions at seasons end. One for the playoffs for just on wins champ and one for who was the most consistent during the season. I think it'd make the whole season worth watching to see if someone could win both championships or have 2 different champs and maybe a race winner doing burnouts at the final race.
No, not 2 champions. That's woke mentality. Just a regular season trophy like hockey's president's trophy, given to the team with the most points. Then, the playoffs run, and anyone in has a chance to become the champion. The regular season is all about making it into the playoffs, where the champion will be crowned.
Never met a racecar driver that didn't always try to win or finish as best they possibly could. They wouldn't have raced differently enough to alter the results in 99.99% of seasons, thats a bullshit excuse.
Penske literally puts zero effort into anything other than flat tracks and plate tracks. They know that most races are completely meaningless, so they ignore them. And while they're the most blatant about it, everyone in the playoffs operates similarly to a degree. Look at Watkins Glen, where every team in the top twelve in points ran somewhere from 11th-25th, because their only goal was getting through the race. Look at all the borderline teams that suddenly start winning in the last few weeks of the regular season. It isn't that they're suddenly fast, it's that the good teams are already locked in and are no longer trying. The old additude of trying for every position every race is completely missing from every driver these days.
Modern nascar is oversized fat cars with lawnmower engines going around with artificial cautions, going to each track pretending for 2/3 of a season that it means anything at all when you can run awful, win 1 and get into the playoffs.
I don't think nascar should be entertaining beyond an individual race. If you want a season of entertainment watch the NFL... NBA... MLB ...NCAA Football... oh wait those are more popular...ummm... watch the Premiere League?
I think full season (with the current point lay out, 40 1st, 35 2nd and so on), if I remember right Larson would’ve won. But anyway, the full season is the best by far. Rewards the best guys all year, and incentivizes racing, cuz no way Larson would’ve missed Charlotte. But under the current format, he had 2 wins, so what does it matter? Lol skip it
I don’t care what format they use, just get rid of stages. Stages are so bad, I stopped watching nascar because of them. And before someone comments “well why are you commenting on a nascar video if you stopped watching” It’s because I love nascar and nascar related things. I’ve been watching it for decades, but stages were the final straw for me. Totally ruined the quality of races in my opinion.
What is your favorite NASCAR championship system?
The Original Chase Format With The 2004-2006 10 Driver/2004-2013 10 Race Format With Chase Points And No Points Resets For The NASCAR Cup Series.
Winston
1949 or 1974 lol. Naw, honestly I actually liked the 2011-13 Chase with 2 wildcards.
Latford System
Winston, but the current points system with no playoffs could be far better, with the extra win incentive and less punishment for wrecking, it still can create very clutch moments.
what I got from this
-Elliot was the most consistent this season
-bell was the overall faster driver this season
-logano was the luckiest this season
And Larson was somewhat the underdog
@@ZPaul_ I’ll agree to that
He could’ve been the best this year but he constantly oveedrove it when he didn’t need to. I wouldn’t doubt he would’ve spun or wrecked it in the charlotte race with the way he raced this year
Agreed besides that logano was the luckiest, he was extremely lucky but he plays the system to perfection
@@espo9505 no, without that Nashville luck he doesn’t make the playoffs. He was running outside the top 10. Without bowman getting dq he doesn’t make the round of 8. They didn’t play it to perfection they weren’t good overall. They were the 6th best in the playoffs. The only wins he deserved was Atlanta in the playoffs and Pheonix which even then he wasn’t the best car just had a good restart. His year was luck. Next year he’ll suck and I wouldn’t be surprised if he either doesn’t make the playoffs or is a round of 16 exit like 2023
@timechanger9162 Logano has just been off these past 2 years. Even in 2024 he was nowhere to be found for a good 3/4 of the season. Sure he won the championship but there’s a big asterisk next to it.
This is why I want a full season points system back. Season long points battles creates a storyline and something to follow over the season. Plus with the next gen creating lots of parody and bringing the competition closer it’s gonna be harder for someone to run away with the point lead.
Exactly!! The current system has fans and media paying attention to the 16th and 17th place drivers in points. Nascar should be highlighting their star drivers! We should be focused on the top 5 in points. This car would make for an amazing season long points system. It would create real drama, not manufactured drama!
Yeah, but with a safeguard so Matt Kenseth seasons do not happen, nor do championships get clinched early
@@S.K.R.E.Inc. as an F1 fan that is the biggest issue with the currents points format in that series because in recent years Max Verstappen has completely dominated & usually has clinched the championship with 4-5 races to go. At least this season, McLaren & Lando Norris are giving Max a championship fight, though if Max wins in Vegas tomorrow night, the title is pretty much wrapped up for him.
@@chrisguardiano6143 well the thing is, F1 is not as equal as NASCAR. So some years you'll have title battles and others that are dominant.
But hey, at least its consistent and rewards actual good drivers who did well in an entire season.
Like my god, could you imagine Max not being champion just bc someone crashed into him in Abu Dhabi?
@@S.K.R.E.Inc. Stop it. We don't need safeguards. Matt Kenseth seasons are more valuable than the garbage we have now!!
Jeff Gordon fans lickin there chops to this video
0:17 HE SAID THE THING!
Also, tell me why NASCAR on FOX has the nerve to have 4 options to vote on "Driver of the Year," but CHRISTOPHER BELL IS NOT ONE OF THEM?!?
There he goes again, flying under the radar.
@jeffreyrainey1015 Still isn't in the script I guess, lol.
@@noahcoleman5556 For the record I like Bell, it was just too easy.
I feel so bad for Christopher Bell man, outside of the current system bro is basically doing everything he needs to do to win a title. I am sure he will win a title some day, he just has that knack for surging late in the year. He will be a champion one day. I am not a fan of these playoffs.
He definitely had a great year. The one thing that hurt him was the fact he didn't win a race since June. He had plenty of speed but he just couldn't close the deal a number of weeks
@@treydawson1983well, if Logano wasn't the luckiest driver ever, Bell would have won Vegas
Crazy how the original latford format system would have made for a great points battle for 2024. Kinda like that format makes sense 🤔
F1 points would have made for a good points battle too. Bell beating Larson by a mere four points.
My opinion of the best format is definitely the Latford system. Heck, I'll take IndyCar's points format over the chase/playoffs.
Indycar points system is very good
The fact that Logano wouldn’t have even made the Chase says how bad this system is. Time for NASCAR to go back to a system where all 36 races matter instead of the last one.
Ummm, if HMS hadn't cheated, then joey wouldn't have made the playoffs. Funny how the huggers point the blame elsewhere.
Jaret trying to avoid *"This is just a hypothetical situation. I know they would have raced differently, this is just for fun."* like the plague. 😂
Shouldn't, because that's a nonsensical defense of the current format anyway
So annoying how we couldve had the best championship battle since 1992 (the greatest season in NASCAR history) if we had the Winston format with Bell winning by FIVE POINTS. But no instead we got some cheap undeserving champion in logano
I recall as a kid following NASCAR from 1968 to '71 that the points system had me puzzled, as the print media of the era did not publish articles to explain
the structure of the points system; and TV coverage of races was scant. Instead, print media such as Autoweek would publish the results of the races and the points standings for the drivers, which was Richard Petty, Bobby Isaac, and James Hylton in the thick of it.
At the time it puzzled me how the winless Hylton, that just motored around in mid-pack, was always in close contention to points leader Petty, even with Petty tearing up the tracks with multiple wins in the season. Ah! as The Iceberg pointed out here, it was the Mileage points system that kept Hylton in contention.
Hylton played the point systems of his day better than anybody. He still holds the record for most races as points leader of any non-champion. He'd always finish just a position or two behind Petty on the short tracks, only losing a couple of points and then gain tons of points by finishing the big races when Petty or Isaac blew up. Eight top four point finishes with only seven career lead lap finishes. Crazy stuff.
@@seannolan9857 (in an appreciative tone) Ah! Thanks for the feedback!
Good to know my memories from over a half-century ago was not completely faulty. Though my comment about Hylton being a mid-pack racer (based upon my following the big track races of the era, as I paid little mind to the short track results) was a bit exaggerated.
Although I don't recall the exact wording of the Autoweek banner headline when Hylton won his first Cup race at Richmond in 1970, it was expressed with a *WOW!* intention by that print publication; as the world of NASCAR seemed to react with amazement with his accomplishment.
Hylton was an independent driver who knew how to take care of his equipment. He may have only won two races, but 140 top 5s and 301 top 10s in 601 races is pretty good given what he had to work with. Granted, a lot of the pre-modern era races had smaller car counts, but still. If he was driving for a factory team, I guarantee he would have a lot more than 2 wins.
So, basically, under the Latford system, the battle for the title would be very similar to that of 1992. With Chase Elliott being the 1992 Bill and Bell being in the rolę of 1992 Alan Kulwicki.
We were robbed by the playoffs
The Latford couldve given us another Hooters 500 this season 😭
I'm currently not invested in Nascar because the champion for the year means nothing for who did best that year, just who got luckiest and unluckiest in specific sections of the season.
If they get rid of playoffs I will 100% come back to Nascar. It's not a coincidence I stopped watching in 2015-2016.
Current Playoff Format (2017 - Present): Joey Logano
"Elimination Chase" Playoff Format (2014 - 2016): Joey Logano
"Wild Card Chase" Playoff Format (2011 - 2013): Christopher Bell
"12 Man Chase" Playoff Format (2007 - 2010): Christopher Bell
"OG Chase" Playoff Format (2004 - 2006): Christopher Bell
"Latford System" Playoff Format (1975 - 2003): Christopher Bell
"Finish and Laps" Playoff Format (1972 - 1974): Chase Elliott
"Mileage" Playoff Format (1968 - 1971): Chase Elliott
"Pioneer Years" Playoff Format (1949 - 1967): Christopher Bell
Results:
#1 - Christopher Bell with 5 Different Playoff Systems (Pioneer Years, Latford, OG, 12 Man Chase, and the Wild Card Chase).
#2 - Tie (Chase Elliott and Joey Logano [Elliott with Finish and Laps, as well as Mileage. Logano with the Elimination Chase, and Today's Format]).
'74 used a totally different system than '72-'73. While impossible to prove without actual monetary totals, William Byron likely would have won that.
'49-'51 also has a very different system from '52-'67.
Maybe the exact points system from the Winston cup would not be perfect, but we definitely need a season long system back.
The championship is completely meaningless. It’s like winning a reality tv show. It’s like “congrats but it’s not the flex it used to be”
Simple at the Winston cup points in 2024 Christopher Bell would be you're 2024 champion by 5 points over chase Elliot and any points system in the Winston cup or chase for the cup is way better than what we have now but NASCAR doesn't even see that.
8:02 better than the latford system. It awards consistency and good finishes. No bonus points. Like it should be
Consistency wins championships well it used to
Christopher Bell should file his own lawsuit for championship robbery. He would have been the new Jimmie Johnso if they kept the chase before the march madness bracket format.
Imagine if you used the points system from other motorsports
The 2004-2013 Chase still at least felt like a fair balance between entertainment and fairness even if Jimmie almost destroyed the format imagine the stories that we were robbed of bc of the playoffs.
Also here would be the other 2024 champions under Winston:
Christian Eckes (Trucks)
Chandler Smith (Xfinity)
Go Back To The Original Chase Format With The 2004-2006 10 Driver/2004-2013 10 Race Format With Chase Points and NO More Points Resets Only For The NASCAR Cup Series Again, Rather Than The Elimination Playoffs Format From 2014.
STOP CHANGING THE FORMAT, AND LEAVE IT ALONE!!!!!
But Alao... For The NASCAR Xfinity Series And The NASCAR Craftsman Truck Series, Get Rid Of The Elimination Playoff Format From 2016, And Bring Back The Full-Season Winston Cup Points Format.
I really miss the Wild Card format. It was so interesting.
Me to 😭😭😭😭😭😭
Bowman/Logano would’ve made it still but Briscoe/Suárez/Cindric/Burton wouldn’t make it
I don't. It should just be 8 drivers racing for the last 10 races.
@@ic3man The 4 who didn’t even deserve to be there anyway.
@@President_Grover_Cleveland yes, Briscoe, Suárez (who is my second favorite), Cindric and Burton shouldn’t have been competing in the playoffs.
I grew up during the Chase area and really appreciated that playoff format as my favorite driver won a lot. I mainly valued you had to perform early in the season and then you also after the start of the playoffs at the continue to elevate your game and perform, but I felt like you had enough of a sample size that was really indicative, the performance I do wish that there had been a penalty on struggling earlier in the season as several times one of the hottest drivers during most of the season would miss the playoffs because they had several DNF or bad races at the start they used to take eight or nine races to make up for the Daytona 500, which almost always crashed him
I would've honestly preferred any other driver in the Round of 8 other than Logano
Latford system is the best
Keep the points the way they are now, even keep the stages (either no cautions or dont count the caution laps after the stage) 1 point for leading a lap, 3 points for leading the most, and make it 60 points for a win then 35 for 2nd, 34 for 3rd, etc, etc. You keep the stages to promote hard racing, and you give the huge advantage for winning so the whole kenseth 1 win scenario is almost impossible. And get rid of the DVP. It was always awesome to see the effort the teams put in just to get a couple of points.
Chase was really underrated this season and seems like he found some winning speed in last 5-6 weeks and has momentum going into next year
The 1974 format was actually based on total winnings as a harsh reaction against the 1972-73 format. I messed around with the standings for that format and I actually have William Byron winning that format thanks to the Daytona 500 win paying significantly more than the other formats.
I'm going to be honest and just say I hate Lagano more than I've ever hated a sports figure before and will hate any system that helps him in any way.
Please welcome…58 time champion…Christopher Bell!!! 😂 11:08
NASCAR has to know that their star driver chose to skip a key race because it didn’t matter in their championship system.
As an F1 fan in addition to NASCAR, I wanted to see who would be the champion if NASCAR adopted F1 style points where only the top 10 finishers get points. Based on the calculations, it would actually be Kyle Larson who would be the champion simply because of the fact he won more races than anyone else (even though he missed the Coke 600) & the current F1 points format rewards those who win the most races. This is the main reason why Max Verstappen has completely dominated F1 in recent years because he has almost every race. The F1 style points format also didn't generate competitive points battles & there were large gaps between the rest of the drivers that finished in the top 5. One thing that is different between the points systems in NASCAR & F1 is that in F1, they give out bonus points for winning the sprint race (which happens at most races) & for the fastest lap something that NASCAR does not do. If NASCAR did have those two things, Larson's margin of victory would be larger than what it was.
That’s not how it would work in NASCAR though, even in F1 rules don’t say 10 drivers, they say half the grid. Therefore, the top half of the grid would get points, not 10 people within NASCAR
Bell would have won by four points over Larson. 19 top six finishes overcome Larson's win advantage.
Pioneer:Christopher Bell
Mileage:Chase Elliott
Finish and Laps:Chase Elliott
Latford:Christopher Bell
Original Chase:Christopher Bell
12-Man Chase:Christopher Bell
Wild Card:Christopher Bell
The Playoffs:Joey Logano
The Playoffs (With stages):Joey Logano
Elliott’s driving style is old school. He is consistent and steady. He doesn’t make any crazy moves and take himself out of races when he doesn’t need to. But under the current system, those crazy moves and aggressive driving are rewarded. Just look at somebody like Larson. He makes over aggressive moves when he doesn’t have to, but he wins a lot because of that.
Dale earnhardt is considered a god, and he drove that way, to the max. But when it's not chevy crossing that line now, everybody cries.
Personally I like some blend of the latford system but I will say Nascar got exactly what it wanted with this format.
A mid season packed full of people trying desperately to get in while we follow cars effectively who had run mid pack. This is engagement we hadn ever seen in the summer lull.
A clean slate post season where its do or die and the guy doing the most in that time won in the end.
For all the murmur of a points change, I seriously doubt well see that any time soon
Another question, why have final race of year at same track? Each year should be different track. Do a road coarse, do a short track, do a super speedway .
No system is perfect, but most of the hate comes from Joey winning the championship
Literally anything is better than 1 race deciding the entire season artificially.
That's true, I like the idea of the playoffs but not the current format because is way too artificial, I'm not a fan of the win and you're in during the regular season.
But for the playoffs, I'm kinda torn between having and not having win and you're in because that actually puts more emphasis on winning, makes more important but also more pick performers can have deep runs undeservingly so yeah you can't have everything.
Entertainment wise this format is great for either good or bad, but from a legitimate championship points system for a racing series, that's way too artificial
You say that but this happens every year
@@Redslayer86but it's not just 1 race that decides it. There are rounds to get through to get to the championship race.
@@zzz7zzz9 Then explain to me how the only way to win the championship… you have to win the final race 🤡
Congrats to Joey. He did what had to do in this system. For racing full season is best but since nascar won’t do that. Go to 3 3 race playoff rounds. Top 12 regular season points leaders get in playoffs each round 12th- 3rd get 1 point for 12th place 10 points for 3rd. 2nd gets 12. Regular season champ gets 15. You can keep the win and your in for anyone that wins a regular season race but not in top 12. He would start each round with 0 points. The winner of each round gets 30 points. 27 for 2nd. Etc. After the 3 rounds are complete the driver with the most points is the champion. Also can add 1 point per win to the drivers total. Example round 1 the driver finished 3rd he gets 24 points rd 2 gets 4th that’s 21 points rd 3 he wins that round so 30 points for a 3 rd total of 75 points and let’s say he wo 3 races so his final total would be 78 points. Now during the playoff round if they want to award extra points like 1 point for a stage win and make a race win worth 2 instead of 1. With this system is it perfect no but at least the top drivers of the regular season are not eliminated because of a bad round and the win and your in drivers will have earned it by having to race good for all 3 rounds. Obviously points can be tweaked but this was just an example. On a side note have separate points systems for playoff and non playoff drivers. This would eliminate some problems and they mediate don’t really even mention them now unless they are in the way. It would give them an extra story line to talk about
That's terrible. Especially in the playoffs, winning is of utmost importance.
The biggest flaw in the playoff format, is that the champion can get crowned for not even winning the championship race. That's just wrong.
Christopher Bell banging his head on the table rn. He’s got a lot of talent I believe his day for a championship is def coming
Feel for Bell. Almost same results per system as last year for Byron.
Would be really curious of the standings under Eric’s proposed Playoff system he discussed in a video (I believe last week).
As a bell fan. 😢
I feel you bud. I feel you
I don’t know we just modern the lateford system. I’ve on this for a while. 200 for first 180 for second 175 3rd. Minus 5 till 10th. Subtract 4 points 11th-25th subtract 3 26th to last. Bonus point time. 10 for a lap 15 for the half way mark only under green. 20 points most laps led. 30 points for season lap leader. No cut offs straight 36 races sure 2 breaks
Wake up babe, new Iceberg hypothetical just dropped
The 2004-2013 chase system was okay
This is another thing I hate about the playoffs. Because of NASCAR's perpetual lack of faith in their own sport, we've missed out on so many thrilling natural title fights over the years. (Also, maybe I just want math in my title fights, damn it. I want a battle where one driver needs to finish in a certain spot to win it all while the others need to come in clutch and also need some help. Instead of a guaranteed "Game 7 moment", maybe I want at least a small chance of NASCAR's answer to "Is that Glock?")
Also the fact that you didn't even adknowledge that monstrosity of a 1974 system is hilarious.
the current 2017-present system season long is my favorite to follow, most realistic in terms or hypotheticals since stage racing has such a big effect on how they race for points.
Larson wins the champ +22 over Bell with 1185 points despite missing the Coke 600
Great video. It's interesting to see.
again with Logano ,don't hate the player hate the game
We've been hating the game for the past 11 years.
Trust me, we’re hating the game
I'm hating both. I agree, he played the system perfectly, I just haven't been a fan of him for years. Him and Hamlin are my most disliked drivers, and it's been that way for years.
I like this playoff I mean you get to see whoever made it to the playoffs. They elimination actually race each other in the final race. You guys just want to see your favorite driver win with ease within the last 2 to 3 races and going to the final race just coasting around 10th
Joey Logano had as many Top 5s as Teammate Ryan Blaney had in DNFs, as many Top 10s as William Byron had in Top 5s, as many Top 15s as Teammate Ryan Blaney, Kyle Larson & Denny Hamlin had in Top 10s, as many Top 20s as William Byron & Tyler Reddick had in Top 10s which mirrors as many Sub 20s as Kyle Larson & Christopher Bell had in Top 5s which included as many DNFs as Kyle Larson had in Wins in route to The 2024 Championship
What if Owner Points were based on a Latford-style season-long system, and the Drivers Points Championship was determined in a more sensical playoff format? This could deter the race manipulation that occurred at Martinsville.
Every single system is better than this garbage
Yea at least the 10 race chase gave them 10 races to settle it out. I feel the 10 race chase was the perfect median for entertainment and legitimacy
Fr
Every single one…except for the 2014-2016 format.
I disagree
Not every.... Steve Letarte's version to me is actually worse somehow imo
Latford all the way.
The playoff format we have currently needs work but a case was made today of all days that the Winston format or season long format isn't the way either.
Max Verstappen won his 4th straight F1 championship today. Did you hear or see massive amounts of excitement over it? During the post race it seemed Russell winning was more important than Max winning the championship. It was dull. Not exciting at all. Yes he deserved it but there has to be a middle ground.
It's hard to win one. It's different every year. One big problem! The Clash should be The Crash! 1/4 mile????
I say we go back to the mileage system
Aside from the Martinsville mess in 2024,Gordon would've been locked into the championship four with stage points.
Great video, just one caveat- Joey Logano didn’t win in this system. He was eliminated. A penalty of a different driver made him advance after being eliminated.
I don't remember what the difference in the points system was from 2014-2016 compared to 2017-2024. Can someone remind me of what the difference was?
I agree with the guy who said all this systems are better than this garbage Bell should be your champion regardless go back to 2003 Matt Kenseth and consistency
I hope they go back to the 10 race chase it was better than what we have now.
Being consistent wins championships
When you went through each era, did you use the points awards for each era or the current one in which you can gain a maximum of 60 points per race as today's points work? When you mentioned Larson missing the Coca Cola 600, you said he missed out on potentially 124 points. I was expecting this analysis to cover the points today but without the Chase/"playoffs". It doesn't matter how NASCAR awards points at the end of each race. What matters is how the points total up from the all those races combined, excluding the ones taken away in penalties, to determine the champion, as it was from 1948-2003. A far more legitimate way compared to NASCAR arbitrarily dumping in 1000 or so points with 10 or less races to go for a select number of drivers and saying "Good luck." to them.
2011-2013 format would have been perfectly fine and fair ul until this moment. I think they only changed it because Jimmie won again in 2013 and they got tired of the 48 lol as we all did..
Also for the full season format by racing reference Kyle Larson would have won championship. Then Bell in f1 format
Not really though. 😅
Different question, Was all cars weighed after the charlotte roval?
If Nascar keeps the playoffs (which they will) it should be the top 10 in points and no win and your in. Also, abolish the elimination rounds in the playoffs. Just 10 races with 10 drivers for the full 10 races.
As a Bell fan I’m going to say:
GIT RID OF DA PLAYOFFS!!!!!
should be the current system, but playoffs start and it switches to the latford system for the 10 playoff races. easy fix. and ditch stage points
The Latford
What we can learn is Christopher Bell is Goated
Elliott is consistent
Joey Logano is Lucky
Our favorite drivers keep on beating Denny to the championship
I was thinking of "they would perform different under different format" and shouldn't they perform 100% at every race by the rules? Shouldn't it be manipulation if you're putting an effort in only certain races?
Wish you would have done other racing series point systems. F1 has a season long championship but there is a lot more reward for winning than the Latford system. I get tired of saying that you can either have the stupid playoffs/chase etc. or you can have Latford, but nothing else.
It’s funny Bell would have won 58/76 times but everyone was mad about Joey bc they thought Larson was more deserving when he wouldn’t have won in any system 🤷♂️
Living in the past. Not even a Penske fan but they dominated the playoff system. Time to move on. Drivers like Elliot, Bell and Hamlin decent finishes during the playoffs but were too conservative and never really threatened to win races.
Bowman
I made a post on twitter of the season if they had run it in reverse (starting in Phoenix and championship race being Daytona 500)
It was a pretty interesting season and Byron ended up the Champion with a final 4 of Elliott, Larson, Byron and Bell
Latford system it’s not even close
Plug in the results from this year without playoffs and without stages. Stage racing is anothet gimmick that needs to be gone, and Elliott is the champ with no gimmicks
It's time for NASCAR to change things up. The current Championship is flawed and it has been since 2014. I do understand that NASCAR wanted to attempt to bring more excitement but I can comfortably say that I'm not the only one that wants changes.
Is it possible to make everyone happy at the same time? The driver's long for competitiveness, they want to be rewarded for consistency and excellence to bring more legitimacy to the end of season championship. The fans desperately want more excitement to be more engaged. The media should want the same. NASCAR desperately wants to keep the media appeased. The teams strive for engagement, team excellence, legitimacy, and excitement surrounding their sponsor partners. Speaking of the sponsors, they want Roi, in the form of advertising, fan engagement, and competitive season long exposure. Sure seems like a lot right. But I feel after much consideration of everyone's needs, that I may have found a solution to satisfy everyone's desire for more beneficial and satisfying season championship.
So without further ado let's shake up this off season snow globe and see where this might go.
Beginning in 2024 college football did a little earthquake of their own and shook up their championship format to be more broad and inclusive to not just 4 opportunities but 12. I don't know about you, but I feel this has been a season-long game changer that allows more opportunities for teams to achieve season long legitimacy and exposure to fans, the media, and recruits alike. NASCAR should take note.
Is my proposal the best? I doubt it but I feel it is a huge step in the right direction to better appease the changes all stakeholders want so badly.
Time to break it down. What I propose is splitting the season into 3, yes 3
sections (praise Dale and raise hell). With 36 points paying races, that means 12 races per section. The first third of the Season would be pretty basic with one exception. Daytona, being one of NASCAR's Crown Jewel races, competitors would receive double the points scored! The next 11 races, teams would continue to accrue regular points.
This brings us to section 2. Here's where things start to get interesting. Only the top 24 race finishers score points! But wait there's more! The Coke 600 and Indy also being Crown Jewel races in my book, would be award double points for the top 24 race finishing drivers. At the end of section 2 almost nobody is completely out but no one is entirely safe.
Now section 3, yep you guessed it, time to put your foot down and nose to the grindstone because for the final races, points are only awarded to the top 12 finishers of each race. In this section Crown Jewel double points races are Darlington the Bristol night race and the season finale!
So no more "Golden Ticket" for winning a rain shortened race, or the occasional lucky win. It's time to " reach on up and pull them belts tight" it's time to show the world what you're made of. Can you imagine the heightened drama of the media could benefit from? The drivers would experience a truer competitiveness not felt in years, not to mention a season-long urgency to fight for consistent excellence to achieve legitimate champ status come season end. The sponsors would truly get their Roi they expect. Finally NASCAR would be able to boast season long excitement, offering a show for the fans that is compelling, engaging, and nostalgic from Daytona clear to Phoenix!
SHAMCAR-where a driver could theoretically win every one of the first 26 races, win every stage of the gawdawful stage racing in the first 26 races yet through purely bad luck in the first couple races of the "playoffs" have no chance to win the Championship. It would be hilarious if a non-chartered team managed to qualify for 5 races over the regular season and win one of SHAMACAR's sh!tshow races, get into the playoffs, score a big money sponsorship deal and win the Championship. SHAMCAR probably has a rule against that but if possible think how ludicrous that would make SHAMCAR's point system work.
If Nascar wants to keep the playoff system they should add a full season system to seasons too so we can have possibly 2 champions at seasons end. One for the playoffs for just on wins champ and one for who was the most consistent during the season. I think it'd make the whole season worth watching to see if someone could win both championships or have 2 different champs and maybe a race winner doing burnouts at the final race.
No, not 2 champions. That's woke mentality. Just a regular season trophy like hockey's president's trophy, given to the team with the most points. Then, the playoffs run, and anyone in has a chance to become the champion.
The regular season is all about making it into the playoffs, where the champion will be crowned.
Current is the best.
Never met a racecar driver that didn't always try to win or finish as best they possibly could.
They wouldn't have raced differently enough to alter the results in 99.99% of seasons, thats a bullshit excuse.
Penske literally puts zero effort into anything other than flat tracks and plate tracks. They know that most races are completely meaningless, so they ignore them. And while they're the most blatant about it, everyone in the playoffs operates similarly to a degree. Look at Watkins Glen, where every team in the top twelve in points ran somewhere from 11th-25th, because their only goal was getting through the race. Look at all the borderline teams that suddenly start winning in the last few weeks of the regular season. It isn't that they're suddenly fast, it's that the good teams are already locked in and are no longer trying. The old additude of trying for every position every race is completely missing from every driver these days.
Modern nascar is oversized fat cars with lawnmower engines going around with artificial cautions, going to each track pretending for 2/3 of a season that it means anything at all when you can run awful, win 1 and get into the playoffs.
Facts
I know I am gonna get hate. But I like the current system but there is bro many things I could change.
I don't think nascar should be entertaining beyond an individual race. If you want a season of entertainment watch the NFL... NBA... MLB ...NCAA Football... oh wait those are more popular...ummm... watch the Premiere League?
Whaaaa, whaaaa, whaaaaa!!
People just can't accept reality when it doesn't suit them.
I think full season (with the current point lay out, 40 1st, 35 2nd and so on), if I remember right Larson would’ve won.
But anyway, the full season is the best by far. Rewards the best guys all year, and incentivizes racing, cuz no way Larson would’ve missed Charlotte. But under the current format, he had 2 wins, so what does it matter? Lol skip it
I don’t care what format they use, just get rid of stages. Stages are so bad, I stopped watching nascar because of them.
And before someone comments “well why are you commenting on a nascar video if you stopped watching”
It’s because I love nascar and nascar related things. I’ve been watching it for decades, but stages were the final straw for me. Totally ruined the quality of races in my opinion.
The Original points was the best!!! This isn't a ball sport!!
I said it on the twitter post of the winston format
"insane ass fucking run by CBELL holy shit"
HYPOTHETICAL SITUATION!!!
But in all seriousness, I hope NASCAR does something about this gimmicky format
GO BACK TO THE WINSTOM CUP POINTS NASCAR AHHHHHHHH
Larson would have won it!!