Winston, but the current points system with no playoffs could be far better, with the extra win incentive and less punishment for wrecking, it still can create very clutch moments.
@@ZPaul_ I’ll agree to that He could’ve been the best this year but he constantly oveedrove it when he didn’t need to. I wouldn’t doubt he would’ve spun or wrecked it in the charlotte race with the way he raced this year
@@espo9505 no, without that Nashville luck he doesn’t make the playoffs. He was running outside the top 10. Without bowman getting dq he doesn’t make the round of 8. They didn’t play it to perfection they weren’t good overall. They were the 6th best in the playoffs. The only wins he deserved was Atlanta in the playoffs and Pheonix which even then he wasn’t the best car just had a good restart. His year was luck. Next year he’ll suck and I wouldn’t be surprised if he either doesn’t make the playoffs or is a round of 16 exit like 2023
@timechanger9162 Logano has just been off these past 2 years. Even in 2024 he was nowhere to be found for a good 3/4 of the season. Sure he won the championship but there’s a big asterisk next to it.
This is why I want a full season points system back. Season long points battles creates a storyline and something to follow over the season. Plus with the next gen creating lots of parody and bringing the competition closer it’s gonna be harder for someone to run away with the point lead.
Exactly!! The current system has fans and media paying attention to the 16th and 17th place drivers in points. Nascar should be highlighting their star drivers! We should be focused on the top 5 in points. This car would make for an amazing season long points system. It would create real drama, not manufactured drama!
@@S.K.R.E.Inc. as an F1 fan that is the biggest issue with the currents points format in that series because in recent years Max Verstappen has completely dominated & usually has clinched the championship with 4-5 races to go. At least this season, McLaren & Lando Norris are giving Max a championship fight, though if Max wins in Vegas tomorrow night, the title is pretty much wrapped up for him.
@@chrisguardiano6143 well the thing is, F1 is not as equal as NASCAR. So some years you'll have title battles and others that are dominant. But hey, at least its consistent and rewards actual good drivers who did well in an entire season. Like my god, could you imagine Max not being champion just bc someone crashed into him in Abu Dhabi?
I feel so bad for Christopher Bell man, outside of the current system bro is basically doing everything he needs to do to win a title. I am sure he will win a title some day, he just has that knack for surging late in the year. He will be a champion one day. I am not a fan of these playoffs.
He definitely had a great year. The one thing that hurt him was the fact he didn't win a race since June. He had plenty of speed but he just couldn't close the deal a number of weeks
0:17 HE SAID THE THING! Also, tell me why NASCAR on FOX has the nerve to have 4 options to vote on "Driver of the Year," but CHRISTOPHER BELL IS NOT ONE OF THEM?!?
The fact that Logano wouldn’t have even made the Chase says how bad this system is. Time for NASCAR to go back to a system where all 36 races matter instead of the last one.
I recall as a kid following NASCAR from 1968 to '71 that the points system had me puzzled, as the print media of the era did not publish articles to explain the structure of the points system; and TV coverage of races was scant. Instead, print media such as Autoweek would publish the results of the races and the points standings for the drivers, which was Richard Petty, Bobby Isaac, and James Hylton in the thick of it. At the time it puzzled me how the winless Hylton, that just motored around in mid-pack, was always in close contention to points leader Petty, even with Petty tearing up the tracks with multiple wins in the season. Ah! as The Iceberg pointed out here, it was the Mileage points system that kept Hylton in contention.
Hylton played the point systems of his day better than anybody. He still holds the record for most races as points leader of any non-champion. He'd always finish just a position or two behind Petty on the short tracks, only losing a couple of points and then gain tons of points by finishing the big races when Petty or Isaac blew up. Eight top four point finishes with only seven career lead lap finishes. Crazy stuff.
@@seannolan9857 (in an appreciative tone) Ah! Thanks for the feedback! Good to know my memories from over a half-century ago was not completely faulty. Though my comment about Hylton being a mid-pack racer (based upon my following the big track races of the era, as I paid little mind to the short track results) was a bit exaggerated. Although I don't recall the exact wording of the Autoweek banner headline when Hylton won his first Cup race at Richmond in 1970, it was expressed with a *WOW!* intention by that print publication; as the world of NASCAR seemed to react with amazement with his accomplishment.
So annoying how we couldve had the best championship battle since 1992 (the greatest season in NASCAR history) if we had the Winston format with Bell winning by FIVE POINTS. But no instead we got some cheap undeserving champion in logano
That's true, I like the idea of the playoffs but not the current format because is way too artificial, I'm not a fan of the win and you're in during the regular season. But for the playoffs, I'm kinda torn between having and not having win and you're in because that actually puts more emphasis on winning, makes more important but also more pick performers can have deep runs undeservingly so yeah you can't have everything. Entertainment wise this format is great for either good or bad, but from a legitimate championship points system for a racing series, that's way too artificial
The 2004-2013 Chase still at least felt like a fair balance between entertainment and fairness even if Jimmie almost destroyed the format imagine the stories that we were robbed of bc of the playoffs. Also here would be the other 2024 champions under Winston: Christian Eckes (Trucks) Chandler Smith (Xfinity)
I had a thought about a playoff system and got an idea. Daytona 500 winner gets into playoffs, top 5 most wins if same amount of wins the guy with more points advances and top 4 in points who aren’t in the playoffs yet by two other requirements. And you’ll have also 11 races in the playoffs and normal points system but if a playoff driver wins, the guy with least points in last 3 races gets eliminated.( if that’s the race winner it’s the next guy with least points) and if you win you’re safe from the next playoff winner.
Current Playoff Format (2017 - Present): Joey Logano "Elimination Chase" Playoff Format (2014 - 2016): Joey Logano "Wild Card Chase" Playoff Format (2011 - 2013): Christopher Bell "12 Man Chase" Playoff Format (2007 - 2010): Christopher Bell "OG Chase" Playoff Format (2004 - 2006): Christopher Bell "Latford System" Playoff Format (1975 - 2003): Christopher Bell "Finish and Laps" Playoff Format (1972 - 1974): Chase Elliott "Mileage" Playoff Format (1968 - 1971): Chase Elliott "Pioneer Years" Playoff Format (1949 - 1967): Christopher Bell Results: #1 - Christopher Bell with 5 Different Playoff Systems (Pioneer Years, Latford, OG, 12 Man Chase, and the Wild Card Chase). #2 - Tie (Chase Elliott and Joey Logano [Elliott with Finish and Laps, as well as Mileage. Logano with the Elimination Chase, and Today's Format]).
'74 used a totally different system than '72-'73. While impossible to prove without actual monetary totals, William Byron likely would have won that. '49-'51 also has a very different system from '52-'67.
As an F1 fan in addition to NASCAR, I wanted to see who would be the champion if NASCAR adopted F1 style points where only the top 10 finishers get points. Based on the calculations, it would actually be Kyle Larson who would be the champion simply because of the fact he won more races than anyone else (even though he missed the Coke 600) & the current F1 points format rewards those who win the most races. This is the main reason why Max Verstappen has completely dominated F1 in recent years because he has almost every race. The F1 style points format also didn't generate competitive points battles & there were large gaps between the rest of the drivers that finished in the top 5. One thing that is different between the points systems in NASCAR & F1 is that in F1, they give out bonus points for winning the sprint race (which happens at most races) & for the fastest lap something that NASCAR does not do. If NASCAR did have those two things, Larson's margin of victory would be larger than what it was.
That’s not how it would work in NASCAR though, even in F1 rules don’t say 10 drivers, they say half the grid. Therefore, the top half of the grid would get points, not 10 people within NASCAR
Elliott’s driving style is old school. He is consistent and steady. He doesn’t make any crazy moves and take himself out of races when he doesn’t need to. But under the current system, those crazy moves and aggressive driving are rewarded. Just look at somebody like Larson. He makes over aggressive moves when he doesn’t have to, but he wins a lot because of that.
Pioneer:Christopher Bell Mileage:Chase Elliott Finish and Laps:Chase Elliott Latford:Christopher Bell Original Chase:Christopher Bell 12-Man Chase:Christopher Bell Wild Card:Christopher Bell The Playoffs:Joey Logano The Playoffs (With stages):Joey Logano
Keep the points the way they are now, even keep the stages (either no cautions or dont count the caution laps after the stage) 1 point for leading a lap, 3 points for leading the most, and make it 60 points for a win then 35 for 2nd, 34 for 3rd, etc, etc. You keep the stages to promote hard racing, and you give the huge advantage for winning so the whole kenseth 1 win scenario is almost impossible. And get rid of the DVP. It was always awesome to see the effort the teams put in just to get a couple of points.
Congrats to Joey. He did what had to do in this system. For racing full season is best but since nascar won’t do that. Go to 3 3 race playoff rounds. Top 12 regular season points leaders get in playoffs each round 12th- 3rd get 1 point for 12th place 10 points for 3rd. 2nd gets 12. Regular season champ gets 15. You can keep the win and your in for anyone that wins a regular season race but not in top 12. He would start each round with 0 points. The winner of each round gets 30 points. 27 for 2nd. Etc. After the 3 rounds are complete the driver with the most points is the champion. Also can add 1 point per win to the drivers total. Example round 1 the driver finished 3rd he gets 24 points rd 2 gets 4th that’s 21 points rd 3 he wins that round so 30 points for a 3 rd total of 75 points and let’s say he wo 3 races so his final total would be 78 points. Now during the playoff round if they want to award extra points like 1 point for a stage win and make a race win worth 2 instead of 1. With this system is it perfect no but at least the top drivers of the regular season are not eliminated because of a bad round and the win and your in drivers will have earned it by having to race good for all 3 rounds. Obviously points can be tweaked but this was just an example. On a side note have separate points systems for playoff and non playoff drivers. This would eliminate some problems and they mediate don’t really even mention them now unless they are in the way. It would give them an extra story line to talk about
The 1974 format was actually based on total winnings as a harsh reaction against the 1972-73 format. I messed around with the standings for that format and I actually have William Byron winning that format thanks to the Daytona 500 win paying significantly more than the other formats.
Christopher Bell should file his own lawsuit for championship robbery. He would have been the new Jimmie Johnso if they kept the chase before the march madness bracket format.
If Nascar wants to keep the playoff system they should add a full season system to seasons too so we can have possibly 2 champions at seasons end. One for the playoffs for just on wins champ and one for who was the most consistent during the season. I think it'd make the whole season worth watching to see if someone could win both championships or have 2 different champs and maybe a race winner doing burnouts at the final race.
I don’t know we just modern the lateford system. I’ve on this for a while. 200 for first 180 for second 175 3rd. Minus 5 till 10th. Subtract 4 points 11th-25th subtract 3 26th to last. Bonus point time. 10 for a lap 15 for the half way mark only under green. 20 points most laps led. 30 points for season lap leader. No cut offs straight 36 races sure 2 breaks
Personally I like some blend of the latford system but I will say Nascar got exactly what it wanted with this format. A mid season packed full of people trying desperately to get in while we follow cars effectively who had run mid pack. This is engagement we hadn ever seen in the summer lull. A clean slate post season where its do or die and the guy doing the most in that time won in the end. For all the murmur of a points change, I seriously doubt well see that any time soon
What if Owner Points were based on a Latford-style season-long system, and the Drivers Points Championship was determined in a more sensical playoff format? This could deter the race manipulation that occurred at Martinsville.
the current 2017-present system season long is my favorite to follow, most realistic in terms or hypotheticals since stage racing has such a big effect on how they race for points. Larson wins the champ +22 over Bell with 1185 points despite missing the Coke 600
I like this playoff I mean you get to see whoever made it to the playoffs. They elimination actually race each other in the final race. You guys just want to see your favorite driver win with ease within the last 2 to 3 races and going to the final race just coasting around 10th
Simple at the Winston cup points in 2024 Christopher Bell would be you're 2024 champion by 5 points over chase Elliot and any points system in the Winston cup or chase for the cup is way better than what we have now but NASCAR doesn't even see that.
Great video, just one caveat- Joey Logano didn’t win in this system. He was eliminated. A penalty of a different driver made him advance after being eliminated.
Joey Logano had as many Top 5s as Teammate Ryan Blaney had in DNFs, as many Top 10s as William Byron had in Top 5s, as many Top 15s as Teammate Ryan Blaney, Kyle Larson & Denny Hamlin had in Top 10s, as many Top 20s as William Byron & Tyler Reddick had in Top 10s which mirrors as many Sub 20s as Kyle Larson & Christopher Bell had in Top 5s which included as many DNFs as Kyle Larson had in Wins in route to The 2024 Championship
I agree with the guy who said all this systems are better than this garbage Bell should be your champion regardless go back to 2003 Matt Kenseth and consistency
When you went through each era, did you use the points awards for each era or the current one in which you can gain a maximum of 60 points per race as today's points work? When you mentioned Larson missing the Coca Cola 600, you said he missed out on potentially 124 points. I was expecting this analysis to cover the points today but without the Chase/"playoffs". It doesn't matter how NASCAR awards points at the end of each race. What matters is how the points total up from the all those races combined, excluding the ones taken away in penalties, to determine the champion, as it was from 1948-2003. A far more legitimate way compared to NASCAR arbitrarily dumping in 1000 or so points with 10 or less races to go for a select number of drivers and saying "Good luck." to them.
I was thinking of "they would perform different under different format" and shouldn't they perform 100% at every race by the rules? Shouldn't it be manipulation if you're putting an effort in only certain races?
This is another thing I hate about the playoffs. Because of NASCAR's perpetual lack of faith in their own sport, we've missed out on so many thrilling natural title fights over the years. (Also, maybe I just want math in my title fights, damn it. I want a battle where one driver needs to finish in a certain spot to win it all while the others need to come in clutch and also need some help. Instead of a guaranteed "Game 7 moment", maybe I want at least a small chance of NASCAR's answer to "Is that Glock?") Also the fact that you didn't even adknowledge that monstrosity of a 1974 system is hilarious.
If Nascar keeps the playoffs (which they will) it should be the top 10 in points and no win and your in. Also, abolish the elimination rounds in the playoffs. Just 10 races with 10 drivers for the full 10 races.
Living in the past. Not even a Penske fan but they dominated the playoff system. Time to move on. Drivers like Elliot, Bell and Hamlin decent finishes during the playoffs but were too conservative and never really threatened to win races.
Wish you would have done other racing series point systems. F1 has a season long championship but there is a lot more reward for winning than the Latford system. I get tired of saying that you can either have the stupid playoffs/chase etc. or you can have Latford, but nothing else.
Never met a racecar driver that didn't always try to win or finish as best they possibly could. They wouldn't have raced differently enough to alter the results in 99.99% of seasons, thats a bullshit excuse.
Penske literally puts zero effort into anything other than flat tracks and plate tracks. They know that most races are completely meaningless, so they ignore them. And while they're the most blatant about it, everyone in the playoffs operates similarly to a degree. Look at Watkins Glen, where every team in the top twelve in points ran somewhere from 11th-25th, because their only goal was getting through the race. Look at all the borderline teams that suddenly start winning in the last few weeks of the regular season. It isn't that they're suddenly fast, it's that the good teams are already locked in and are no longer trying. The old additude of trying for every position every race is completely missing from every driver these days.
I made a post on twitter of the season if they had run it in reverse (starting in Phoenix and championship race being Daytona 500) It was a pretty interesting season and Byron ended up the Champion with a final 4 of Elliott, Larson, Byron and Bell
I don't think nascar should be entertaining beyond an individual race. If you want a season of entertainment watch the NFL... NBA... MLB ...NCAA Football... oh wait those are more popular...ummm... watch the Premiere League?
SHAMCAR-where a driver could theoretically win every one of the first 26 races, win every stage of the gawdawful stage racing in the first 26 races yet through purely bad luck in the first couple races of the "playoffs" have no chance to win the Championship. It would be hilarious if a non-chartered team managed to qualify for 5 races over the regular season and win one of SHAMACAR's sh!tshow races, get into the playoffs, score a big money sponsorship deal and win the Championship. SHAMCAR probably has a rule against that but if possible think how ludicrous that would make SHAMCAR's point system work.
Modern nascar is oversized fat cars with lawnmower engines going around with artificial cautions, going to each track pretending for 2/3 of a season that it means anything at all when you can run awful, win 1 and get into the playoffs.
I think full season (with the current point lay out, 40 1st, 35 2nd and so on), if I remember right Larson would’ve won. But anyway, the full season is the best by far. Rewards the best guys all year, and incentivizes racing, cuz no way Larson would’ve missed Charlotte. But under the current format, he had 2 wins, so what does it matter? Lol skip it
No stages, no playoffs no championship 16,12,8,4 nothing go back to 2003. The most point the champ 0 win but most points YOU ARE CHAMPION.... NO STUPID SHIT
The 5 car still had the most speed of any team week to week. If the 5 car finds a way to DNF one or two times less (and or runs the Coke 600 and DNF’s one time less) he wins the championship. The driver of the 5 needs to learn from this and will be nearly impossible to beat if he does
I really don't know why people think this nonsense lol. Racecar drivers try to get the best finish, regardless of the format. And what exactly would chase do different anyway, he had a good season with a lot of good finishes, the best he could get in every race.
This is an awesome video--I appreciate that you did the math for the Latford System with the bonus points as a lot of people probably forget the complexity of that system. Please just don't remind me that 1992 was 32 years ago. 😝
They’re still using the format Elliott won the championship under, however while he would’ve lost under full season points in 2020, he would’ve still won a championship in 2022
Did you actually go back and figure who led laps in each race? Larson led the most laps in more races than anyone. He had twice the wins. Everyone knows you are a chase elliot homer. You always scorre him higher than he deserves. When you ranked rookie seasons, you ranked his season as high as larson's when considering the equipment and even the stats, it wasn't close. I remember when Larson was reinstated and you made the idiotic point of wondering where he would fit in. Would he be ahead of Alex Bowman or behind him, but definitely behind Elliott Do you know that since 2021, Larson has won more races and led more laps than Chase Elliott has in his entire career.. Every real race fan knew, he was not even close to Larson's talent. You tslk about larson's checkers or wreckers when in fact, Bell had more dnf's than Larson did. Unless you want to go back to each race and see who led laps and who led the most laps, your system is about as valid as the mainstrream media on politics.
Under the Latford system, Larson would have had 155 bonus points for laps led. Bell would have had 140. Elliott would have had 85. That's not enough to overcome missing a race, or having an average finish one full position lower. Over the course of a season, one position per race will put you 108 points behind someone. Gaining 70 more bonus points isn't enough. Unless you're talking about the '72 system. Which is based on laps completed, not laps led. So Larson is at a huge disadvantage thanks to the missed race. Elliott completed more than five hundred laps more. His personal rankings might show bias, but the above is simple math.
These hypotheticals are the epitome of stupidity. You can't compare present day stats to past systems to find out who the winner might've been. The objectives a driver and team need achieve in order to succeed in each system if different, therefore, the driver's and team's mentalites are different. All you idiots trying to change the point system because someone different may have been the champion in a past system are basing your opinions on faulty logic. Shut up and leave it alone.
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What is your favorite NASCAR championship system?
The Original Chase Format With The 2004-2006 10 Driver/2004-2013 10 Race Format With Chase Points And No Points Resets For The NASCAR Cup Series.
Winston
1949 or 1974 lol. Naw, honestly I actually liked the 2011-13 Chase with 2 wildcards.
Latford System
Winston, but the current points system with no playoffs could be far better, with the extra win incentive and less punishment for wrecking, it still can create very clutch moments.
what I got from this
-Elliot was the most consistent this season
-bell was the overall faster driver this season
-logano was the luckiest this season
And Larson was somewhat the underdog
@@ZPaul_ I’ll agree to that
He could’ve been the best this year but he constantly oveedrove it when he didn’t need to. I wouldn’t doubt he would’ve spun or wrecked it in the charlotte race with the way he raced this year
Agreed besides that logano was the luckiest, he was extremely lucky but he plays the system to perfection
@@espo9505 no, without that Nashville luck he doesn’t make the playoffs. He was running outside the top 10. Without bowman getting dq he doesn’t make the round of 8. They didn’t play it to perfection they weren’t good overall. They were the 6th best in the playoffs. The only wins he deserved was Atlanta in the playoffs and Pheonix which even then he wasn’t the best car just had a good restart. His year was luck. Next year he’ll suck and I wouldn’t be surprised if he either doesn’t make the playoffs or is a round of 16 exit like 2023
@timechanger9162 Logano has just been off these past 2 years. Even in 2024 he was nowhere to be found for a good 3/4 of the season. Sure he won the championship but there’s a big asterisk next to it.
This is why I want a full season points system back. Season long points battles creates a storyline and something to follow over the season. Plus with the next gen creating lots of parody and bringing the competition closer it’s gonna be harder for someone to run away with the point lead.
Exactly!! The current system has fans and media paying attention to the 16th and 17th place drivers in points. Nascar should be highlighting their star drivers! We should be focused on the top 5 in points. This car would make for an amazing season long points system. It would create real drama, not manufactured drama!
Yeah, but with a safeguard so Matt Kenseth seasons do not happen, nor do championships get clinched early
@@S.K.R.E.Inc. as an F1 fan that is the biggest issue with the currents points format in that series because in recent years Max Verstappen has completely dominated & usually has clinched the championship with 4-5 races to go. At least this season, McLaren & Lando Norris are giving Max a championship fight, though if Max wins in Vegas tomorrow night, the title is pretty much wrapped up for him.
@@chrisguardiano6143 well the thing is, F1 is not as equal as NASCAR. So some years you'll have title battles and others that are dominant.
But hey, at least its consistent and rewards actual good drivers who did well in an entire season.
Like my god, could you imagine Max not being champion just bc someone crashed into him in Abu Dhabi?
@@S.K.R.E.Inc. Stop it. We don't need safeguards. Matt Kenseth seasons are more valuable than the garbage we have now!!
Jeff Gordon fans lickin there chops to this video
I feel so bad for Christopher Bell man, outside of the current system bro is basically doing everything he needs to do to win a title. I am sure he will win a title some day, he just has that knack for surging late in the year. He will be a champion one day. I am not a fan of these playoffs.
He definitely had a great year. The one thing that hurt him was the fact he didn't win a race since June. He had plenty of speed but he just couldn't close the deal a number of weeks
@@treydawson1983well, if Logano wasn't the luckiest driver ever, Bell would have won Vegas
0:17 HE SAID THE THING!
Also, tell me why NASCAR on FOX has the nerve to have 4 options to vote on "Driver of the Year," but CHRISTOPHER BELL IS NOT ONE OF THEM?!?
There he goes again, flying under the radar.
@jeffreyrainey1015 Still isn't in the script I guess, lol.
@@noahcoleman5556 For the record I like Bell, it was just too easy.
My opinion of the best format is definitely the Latford system. Heck, I'll take IndyCar's points format over the chase/playoffs.
Indycar points system is very good
The fact that Logano wouldn’t have even made the Chase says how bad this system is. Time for NASCAR to go back to a system where all 36 races matter instead of the last one.
Crazy how the original latford format system would have made for a great points battle for 2024. Kinda like that format makes sense 🤔
F1 points would have made for a good points battle too. Bell beating Larson by a mere four points.
Jaret trying to avoid *"This is just a hypothetical situation. I know they would have raced differently, this is just for fun."* like the plague. 😂
Shouldn't, because that's a nonsensical defense of the current format anyway
I recall as a kid following NASCAR from 1968 to '71 that the points system had me puzzled, as the print media of the era did not publish articles to explain
the structure of the points system; and TV coverage of races was scant. Instead, print media such as Autoweek would publish the results of the races and the points standings for the drivers, which was Richard Petty, Bobby Isaac, and James Hylton in the thick of it.
At the time it puzzled me how the winless Hylton, that just motored around in mid-pack, was always in close contention to points leader Petty, even with Petty tearing up the tracks with multiple wins in the season. Ah! as The Iceberg pointed out here, it was the Mileage points system that kept Hylton in contention.
Hylton played the point systems of his day better than anybody. He still holds the record for most races as points leader of any non-champion. He'd always finish just a position or two behind Petty on the short tracks, only losing a couple of points and then gain tons of points by finishing the big races when Petty or Isaac blew up. Eight top four point finishes with only seven career lead lap finishes. Crazy stuff.
@@seannolan9857 (in an appreciative tone) Ah! Thanks for the feedback!
Good to know my memories from over a half-century ago was not completely faulty. Though my comment about Hylton being a mid-pack racer (based upon my following the big track races of the era, as I paid little mind to the short track results) was a bit exaggerated.
Although I don't recall the exact wording of the Autoweek banner headline when Hylton won his first Cup race at Richmond in 1970, it was expressed with a *WOW!* intention by that print publication; as the world of NASCAR seemed to react with amazement with his accomplishment.
So annoying how we couldve had the best championship battle since 1992 (the greatest season in NASCAR history) if we had the Winston format with Bell winning by FIVE POINTS. But no instead we got some cheap undeserving champion in logano
No system is perfect, but most of the hate comes from Joey winning the championship
Literally anything is better than 1 race deciding the entire season artificially.
That's true, I like the idea of the playoffs but not the current format because is way too artificial, I'm not a fan of the win and you're in during the regular season.
But for the playoffs, I'm kinda torn between having and not having win and you're in because that actually puts more emphasis on winning, makes more important but also more pick performers can have deep runs undeservingly so yeah you can't have everything.
Entertainment wise this format is great for either good or bad, but from a legitimate championship points system for a racing series, that's way too artificial
8:02 better than the latford system. It awards consistency and good finishes. No bonus points. Like it should be
Consistency wins championships well it used to
again with Logano ,don't hate the player hate the game
We've been hating the game for the past 11 years.
Trust me, we’re hating the game
NASCAR has to know that their star driver chose to skip a key race because it didn’t matter in their championship system.
The 2004-2013 Chase still at least felt like a fair balance between entertainment and fairness even if Jimmie almost destroyed the format imagine the stories that we were robbed of bc of the playoffs.
Also here would be the other 2024 champions under Winston:
Christian Eckes (Trucks)
Chandler Smith (Xfinity)
I had a thought about a playoff system and got an idea. Daytona 500 winner gets into playoffs, top 5 most wins if same amount of wins the guy with more points advances and top 4 in points who aren’t in the playoffs yet by two other requirements. And you’ll have also 11 races in the playoffs and normal points system but if a playoff driver wins, the guy with least points in last 3 races gets eliminated.( if that’s the race winner it’s the next guy with least points) and if you win you’re safe from the next playoff winner.
The Latford couldve given us another Hooters 500 this season 😭
Current Playoff Format (2017 - Present): Joey Logano
"Elimination Chase" Playoff Format (2014 - 2016): Joey Logano
"Wild Card Chase" Playoff Format (2011 - 2013): Christopher Bell
"12 Man Chase" Playoff Format (2007 - 2010): Christopher Bell
"OG Chase" Playoff Format (2004 - 2006): Christopher Bell
"Latford System" Playoff Format (1975 - 2003): Christopher Bell
"Finish and Laps" Playoff Format (1972 - 1974): Chase Elliott
"Mileage" Playoff Format (1968 - 1971): Chase Elliott
"Pioneer Years" Playoff Format (1949 - 1967): Christopher Bell
Results:
#1 - Christopher Bell with 5 Different Playoff Systems (Pioneer Years, Latford, OG, 12 Man Chase, and the Wild Card Chase).
#2 - Tie (Chase Elliott and Joey Logano [Elliott with Finish and Laps, as well as Mileage. Logano with the Elimination Chase, and Today's Format]).
'74 used a totally different system than '72-'73. While impossible to prove without actual monetary totals, William Byron likely would have won that.
'49-'51 also has a very different system from '52-'67.
As an F1 fan in addition to NASCAR, I wanted to see who would be the champion if NASCAR adopted F1 style points where only the top 10 finishers get points. Based on the calculations, it would actually be Kyle Larson who would be the champion simply because of the fact he won more races than anyone else (even though he missed the Coke 600) & the current F1 points format rewards those who win the most races. This is the main reason why Max Verstappen has completely dominated F1 in recent years because he has almost every race. The F1 style points format also didn't generate competitive points battles & there were large gaps between the rest of the drivers that finished in the top 5. One thing that is different between the points systems in NASCAR & F1 is that in F1, they give out bonus points for winning the sprint race (which happens at most races) & for the fastest lap something that NASCAR does not do. If NASCAR did have those two things, Larson's margin of victory would be larger than what it was.
That’s not how it would work in NASCAR though, even in F1 rules don’t say 10 drivers, they say half the grid. Therefore, the top half of the grid would get points, not 10 people within NASCAR
Bell would have won by four points over Larson. 19 top six finishes overcome Larson's win advantage.
Elliott’s driving style is old school. He is consistent and steady. He doesn’t make any crazy moves and take himself out of races when he doesn’t need to. But under the current system, those crazy moves and aggressive driving are rewarded. Just look at somebody like Larson. He makes over aggressive moves when he doesn’t have to, but he wins a lot because of that.
Pioneer:Christopher Bell
Mileage:Chase Elliott
Finish and Laps:Chase Elliott
Latford:Christopher Bell
Original Chase:Christopher Bell
12-Man Chase:Christopher Bell
Wild Card:Christopher Bell
The Playoffs:Joey Logano
The Playoffs (With stages):Joey Logano
Chase was really underrated this season and seems like he found some winning speed in last 5-6 weeks and has momentum going into next year
Keep the points the way they are now, even keep the stages (either no cautions or dont count the caution laps after the stage) 1 point for leading a lap, 3 points for leading the most, and make it 60 points for a win then 35 for 2nd, 34 for 3rd, etc, etc. You keep the stages to promote hard racing, and you give the huge advantage for winning so the whole kenseth 1 win scenario is almost impossible. And get rid of the DVP. It was always awesome to see the effort the teams put in just to get a couple of points.
I really miss the Wild Card format. It was so interesting.
Me to 😭😭😭😭😭😭
Bowman/Logano would’ve made it still but Briscoe/Suárez/Cindric/Burton wouldn’t make it
I don't. It should just be 8 drivers racing for the last 10 races.
Congrats to Joey. He did what had to do in this system. For racing full season is best but since nascar won’t do that. Go to 3 3 race playoff rounds. Top 12 regular season points leaders get in playoffs each round 12th- 3rd get 1 point for 12th place 10 points for 3rd. 2nd gets 12. Regular season champ gets 15. You can keep the win and your in for anyone that wins a regular season race but not in top 12. He would start each round with 0 points. The winner of each round gets 30 points. 27 for 2nd. Etc. After the 3 rounds are complete the driver with the most points is the champion. Also can add 1 point per win to the drivers total. Example round 1 the driver finished 3rd he gets 24 points rd 2 gets 4th that’s 21 points rd 3 he wins that round so 30 points for a 3 rd total of 75 points and let’s say he wo 3 races so his final total would be 78 points. Now during the playoff round if they want to award extra points like 1 point for a stage win and make a race win worth 2 instead of 1. With this system is it perfect no but at least the top drivers of the regular season are not eliminated because of a bad round and the win and your in drivers will have earned it by having to race good for all 3 rounds. Obviously points can be tweaked but this was just an example. On a side note have separate points systems for playoff and non playoff drivers. This would eliminate some problems and they mediate don’t really even mention them now unless they are in the way. It would give them an extra story line to talk about
The 1974 format was actually based on total winnings as a harsh reaction against the 1972-73 format. I messed around with the standings for that format and I actually have William Byron winning that format thanks to the Daytona 500 win paying significantly more than the other formats.
I said it on the twitter post of the winston format
"insane ass fucking run by CBELL holy shit"
Every single system is better than this garbage
Yea at least the 10 race chase gave them 10 races to settle it out. I feel the 10 race chase was the perfect median for entertainment and legitimacy
Fr
Every single one…except for the 2014-2016 format.
I disagree
Not every.... Steve Letarte's version to me is actually worse somehow imo
Christopher Bell should file his own lawsuit for championship robbery. He would have been the new Jimmie Johnso if they kept the chase before the march madness bracket format.
If Nascar wants to keep the playoff system they should add a full season system to seasons too so we can have possibly 2 champions at seasons end. One for the playoffs for just on wins champ and one for who was the most consistent during the season. I think it'd make the whole season worth watching to see if someone could win both championships or have 2 different champs and maybe a race winner doing burnouts at the final race.
I don’t know we just modern the lateford system. I’ve on this for a while. 200 for first 180 for second 175 3rd. Minus 5 till 10th. Subtract 4 points 11th-25th subtract 3 26th to last. Bonus point time. 10 for a lap 15 for the half way mark only under green. 20 points most laps led. 30 points for season lap leader. No cut offs straight 36 races sure 2 breaks
Imagine if you used the points system from other motorsports
Personally I like some blend of the latford system but I will say Nascar got exactly what it wanted with this format.
A mid season packed full of people trying desperately to get in while we follow cars effectively who had run mid pack. This is engagement we hadn ever seen in the summer lull.
A clean slate post season where its do or die and the guy doing the most in that time won in the end.
For all the murmur of a points change, I seriously doubt well see that any time soon
The 2004-2013 chase system was okay
What if Owner Points were based on a Latford-style season-long system, and the Drivers Points Championship was determined in a more sensical playoff format? This could deter the race manipulation that occurred at Martinsville.
Would be really curious of the standings under Eric’s proposed Playoff system he discussed in a video (I believe last week).
the current 2017-present system season long is my favorite to follow, most realistic in terms or hypotheticals since stage racing has such a big effect on how they race for points.
Larson wins the champ +22 over Bell with 1185 points despite missing the Coke 600
I like this playoff I mean you get to see whoever made it to the playoffs. They elimination actually race each other in the final race. You guys just want to see your favorite driver win with ease within the last 2 to 3 races and going to the final race just coasting around 10th
Simple at the Winston cup points in 2024 Christopher Bell would be you're 2024 champion by 5 points over chase Elliot and any points system in the Winston cup or chase for the cup is way better than what we have now but NASCAR doesn't even see that.
Wake up babe, new Iceberg hypothetical just dropped
Great video, just one caveat- Joey Logano didn’t win in this system. He was eliminated. A penalty of a different driver made him advance after being eliminated.
Joey Logano had as many Top 5s as Teammate Ryan Blaney had in DNFs, as many Top 10s as William Byron had in Top 5s, as many Top 15s as Teammate Ryan Blaney, Kyle Larson & Denny Hamlin had in Top 10s, as many Top 20s as William Byron & Tyler Reddick had in Top 10s which mirrors as many Sub 20s as Kyle Larson & Christopher Bell had in Top 5s which included as many DNFs as Kyle Larson had in Wins in route to The 2024 Championship
I agree with the guy who said all this systems are better than this garbage Bell should be your champion regardless go back to 2003 Matt Kenseth and consistency
Please welcome…58 time champion…Christopher Bell!!! 😂 11:08
When you went through each era, did you use the points awards for each era or the current one in which you can gain a maximum of 60 points per race as today's points work? When you mentioned Larson missing the Coca Cola 600, you said he missed out on potentially 124 points. I was expecting this analysis to cover the points today but without the Chase/"playoffs". It doesn't matter how NASCAR awards points at the end of each race. What matters is how the points total up from the all those races combined, excluding the ones taken away in penalties, to determine the champion, as it was from 1948-2003. A far more legitimate way compared to NASCAR arbitrarily dumping in 1000 or so points with 10 or less races to go for a select number of drivers and saying "Good luck." to them.
It's hard to win one. It's different every year. One big problem! The Clash should be The Crash! 1/4 mile????
Latford all the way.
Aside from the Martinsville mess in 2024,Gordon would've been locked into the championship four with stage points.
As a Bell fan I’m going to say:
GIT RID OF DA PLAYOFFS!!!!!
What we can learn is Christopher Bell is Goated
Elliott is consistent
Joey Logano is Lucky
should be the current system, but playoffs start and it switches to the latford system for the 10 playoff races. easy fix. and ditch stage points
I say we go back to the mileage system
I was thinking of "they would perform different under different format" and shouldn't they perform 100% at every race by the rules? Shouldn't it be manipulation if you're putting an effort in only certain races?
Being consistent wins championships
This is another thing I hate about the playoffs. Because of NASCAR's perpetual lack of faith in their own sport, we've missed out on so many thrilling natural title fights over the years. (Also, maybe I just want math in my title fights, damn it. I want a battle where one driver needs to finish in a certain spot to win it all while the others need to come in clutch and also need some help. Instead of a guaranteed "Game 7 moment", maybe I want at least a small chance of NASCAR's answer to "Is that Glock?")
Also the fact that you didn't even adknowledge that monstrosity of a 1974 system is hilarious.
Also for the full season format by racing reference Kyle Larson would have won championship. Then Bell in f1 format
Not really though. 😅
If Nascar keeps the playoffs (which they will) it should be the top 10 in points and no win and your in. Also, abolish the elimination rounds in the playoffs. Just 10 races with 10 drivers for the full 10 races.
I hope they go back to the 10 race chase it was better than what we have now.
As a bell fan. 😢
I feel you bud. I feel you
Living in the past. Not even a Penske fan but they dominated the playoff system. Time to move on. Drivers like Elliot, Bell and Hamlin decent finishes during the playoffs but were too conservative and never really threatened to win races.
Great video. It's interesting to see.
Wish you would have done other racing series point systems. F1 has a season long championship but there is a lot more reward for winning than the Latford system. I get tired of saying that you can either have the stupid playoffs/chase etc. or you can have Latford, but nothing else.
Latford system it’s not even close
HYPOTHETICAL SITUATION!!!
But in all seriousness, I hope NASCAR does something about this gimmicky format
Never met a racecar driver that didn't always try to win or finish as best they possibly could.
They wouldn't have raced differently enough to alter the results in 99.99% of seasons, thats a bullshit excuse.
Penske literally puts zero effort into anything other than flat tracks and plate tracks. They know that most races are completely meaningless, so they ignore them. And while they're the most blatant about it, everyone in the playoffs operates similarly to a degree. Look at Watkins Glen, where every team in the top twelve in points ran somewhere from 11th-25th, because their only goal was getting through the race. Look at all the borderline teams that suddenly start winning in the last few weeks of the regular season. It isn't that they're suddenly fast, it's that the good teams are already locked in and are no longer trying. The old additude of trying for every position every race is completely missing from every driver these days.
I know I am gonna get hate. But I like the current system but there is bro many things I could change.
I made a post on twitter of the season if they had run it in reverse (starting in Phoenix and championship race being Daytona 500)
It was a pretty interesting season and Byron ended up the Champion with a final 4 of Elliott, Larson, Byron and Bell
I don't think nascar should be entertaining beyond an individual race. If you want a season of entertainment watch the NFL... NBA... MLB ...NCAA Football... oh wait those are more popular...ummm... watch the Premiere League?
Current is the best.
SHAMCAR-where a driver could theoretically win every one of the first 26 races, win every stage of the gawdawful stage racing in the first 26 races yet through purely bad luck in the first couple races of the "playoffs" have no chance to win the Championship. It would be hilarious if a non-chartered team managed to qualify for 5 races over the regular season and win one of SHAMACAR's sh!tshow races, get into the playoffs, score a big money sponsorship deal and win the Championship. SHAMCAR probably has a rule against that but if possible think how ludicrous that would make SHAMCAR's point system work.
The Original points was the best!!! This isn't a ball sport!!
The championship is completely meaningless. It’s like winning a reality tv show. It’s like “congrats but it’s not the flex it used to be”
Modern nascar is oversized fat cars with lawnmower engines going around with artificial cautions, going to each track pretending for 2/3 of a season that it means anything at all when you can run awful, win 1 and get into the playoffs.
Facts
GO BACK TO THE WINSTOM CUP POINTS NASCAR AHHHHHHHH
This current system is junk
I think full season (with the current point lay out, 40 1st, 35 2nd and so on), if I remember right Larson would’ve won.
But anyway, the full season is the best by far. Rewards the best guys all year, and incentivizes racing, cuz no way Larson would’ve missed Charlotte. But under the current format, he had 2 wins, so what does it matter? Lol skip it
Larson would have won it!!
Go back to points racing
No stages, no playoffs no championship 16,12,8,4 nothing go back to 2003. The most point the champ 0 win but most points YOU ARE CHAMPION.... NO STUPID SHIT
The copium is real
Duh. IF this and IF that. Yawn.
The 5 car still had the most speed of any team week to week. If the 5 car finds a way to DNF one or two times less (and or runs the Coke 600 and DNF’s one time less) he wins the championship. The driver of the 5 needs to learn from this and will be nearly impossible to beat if he does
100% would of raced different with these outcomes. I feel Elliott wouldn’t be close if these were the respective formats.
I really don't know why people think this nonsense lol. Racecar drivers try to get the best finish, regardless of the format.
And what exactly would chase do different anyway, he had a good season with a lot of good finishes, the best he could get in every race.
@ I’m saying g other drivers would match that consistency and not go for broke for wins. Larson being the main guy I’m talking about
So in any other format there would have been a better champion who would have thought.
This is an awesome video--I appreciate that you did the math for the Latford System with the bonus points as a lot of people probably forget the complexity of that system.
Please just don't remind me that 1992 was 32 years ago.
😝
As a Jeff Gordon fan, I hated every system 2004 and beyond.
Until they change this garbage format, I’m not doing another full season, NASCAR please change this format, please.
I wanna go back to the system that Elliott won the title
They’re still using the format Elliott won the championship under, however while he would’ve lost under full season points in 2020, he would’ve still won a championship in 2022
When i think who should really be champion, it either be Larson or Reddick, Not Joey
Did you actually go back and figure who led laps in each race? Larson led the most laps in more races than anyone. He had twice the wins. Everyone knows you are a chase elliot homer. You always scorre him higher than he deserves. When you ranked rookie seasons, you ranked his season as high as larson's when considering the equipment and even the stats, it wasn't close. I remember when Larson was reinstated and you made the idiotic point of wondering where he would fit in. Would he be ahead of Alex Bowman or behind him, but definitely behind Elliott Do you know that since 2021, Larson has won more races and led more laps than Chase Elliott has in his entire career.. Every real race fan knew, he was not even close to Larson's talent. You tslk about larson's checkers or wreckers when in fact, Bell had more dnf's than Larson did. Unless you want to go back to each race and see who led laps and who led the most laps, your system is about as valid as the mainstrream media on politics.
Under the Latford system, Larson would have had 155 bonus points for laps led. Bell would have had 140. Elliott would have had 85. That's not enough to overcome missing a race, or having an average finish one full position lower. Over the course of a season, one position per race will put you 108 points behind someone. Gaining 70 more bonus points isn't enough.
Unless you're talking about the '72 system. Which is based on laps completed, not laps led. So Larson is at a huge disadvantage thanks to the missed race. Elliott completed more than five hundred laps more.
His personal rankings might show bias, but the above is simple math.
It was the stupidest race competition ever organized in history
These hypotheticals are the epitome of stupidity. You can't compare present day stats to past systems to find out who the winner might've been. The objectives a driver and team need achieve in order to succeed in each system if different, therefore, the driver's and team's mentalites are different. All you idiots trying to change the point system because someone different may have been the champion in a past system are basing your opinions on faulty logic. Shut up and leave it alone.
Ohhh someone's a bit rattled aren't they? Tell ya what Ryan mate, you go and have a lie down while we have a little fun okay? Okay.
Imagine getting this upset over hypotheticals lmfao
That just shows u how sad nascar is right now. Logano wins the last 11 with that horrible season?!?! Wow
There is a reason no one cares about the championship anymore. No one watches it. Nobody talks about. everyone just really doesn't care anymore.