Great demonstration of the effects of lie angle on ball flight. I'd add that a new set should be measured for *actual* loft and lie angles when purchased as I've found that they're seldom perfect from the factory.
IMO the best way to test for lie angle is with a launch monitor that can provide information on dynamic lie and where on the club you hit the ball. I do wonder, and when next at my local custom fit shop, whether lie angle needs to change depending on length of the club - impossible to check when buying a new set of irons because most fitters only have one fitting club (either a 6i or 7i), but relatively easy to check on an existing set
Interesting set of data! Just measured my own wrist-to-floor and according to Ping chart that would be 0 to 1 flat with my height, Im playing 3 upright at the moment. Will sure look in to do some proper re-fitting of my lie angle!
Important to remember that the color chart is only applicable to PING clubs. There is no standard across manufacturers. For example, a blue dot (1 upright) for PING is standard for Titleist. Those two manufacturers tend to be standard across their own product lines where Taylormade, for example, have different lie angles for different irons models. The TW blades are flatter than the P7MB blades. Test everything.
What an absolute joke!! The golf industry needs some sort of Authority. The fact that there's so much deception and confusion in the industry is pathetic! How in the world is there no no sort of uniformity in this industry? The majority information you get is either harmful or just misleading in general how is this even a thing?!
@@jacobr4558 I think that largely is a result of design philosophy by each manufacturer. PING have always lead the way when it comes to fitting with their color system. Other companies try to hit what they think is the largest segment of the market for their clubs knowing that most can be moved to fit the individual.
@@Zacharydderrick I honestly don't care why it is!. I just think it's pathetic that that is what it is right now. It is a pathetic jumbled mess at the moment
appreciate your knowledge on this Zach. I was freaking out today because I stumbled across the ping chart on TGW, which I hadn't seen for quite some time, so thought I'd check my measurements for the heck of it. I've always bought standard clubs. But the Ping chart shows I am in the blue range. Glad I found your comment before I went out and did something drastic🤣
Good info. You mentioned that your strike was worse with the white dot. How does the lie correlate to strike tendencies? E.G. if a club is too upright or flat, can it cause a tendency toward toe or heel strikes?
I appreciate the information. The video editing at 4:45 & 5:03 is confusing. You were hitting the blue dot 1 deg upright club shortly beforehand (and had not yet hit clubs with other lie angles). But the clips at those two times show a toe strike, which would be consistent with a club that is too flat for you. By contrast, your left-leaning dispersion pattern with the blue dot club suggests the club is too upright, as do your static measurements. It takes sharp eyes to notice that the two clips I've referred to are of the red dot 1 deg flat club that you hit subsequently and therefore are temporally incorrect in the video and confusing as a result. It would have been useful to also hit (and display stats for) the black dot club, which is "supposed" to be correct for you...to see what actually happened with it. I would have enjoyed some discussion about how TrackMan's Dynamic Lie statistic is useful (or not) for lie angle fitting. Thank you.
What are the dynamic lie measurements for each of these club types. I am registering a 68 dynamic lie with my white dot G425s. To correct for this should I move up towards silver or down towards green? Mishits slice.
In my experience, the more lofted my Irons are the flatter I need them, so my long Irons (4&5) are 1* Upright, mid-Irons (6,7 &8) are neutral and my Wedges (9, PW, 52 & SW) need to be 2* Flat. Which is why I don't play PING Irons because this just freaks out their Fitters! Also unless you are a real DIGGER (that hits the ball fat) turf interaction affecting your ball flight (left or right) is something of a myth. IMHO your ball flight is mainly down to the relationship between your dynamic lie angle, your clubface at impact and your swing path. In reality, the little ball has already left the clubface, long before the club interacts with the BIG BALL.
That’s crazy! I’ve noticed the same exact thing recently. I’ve only been playing golf for two years now so every thought I have in my mind I can only assume it’s based in theory. But as my swing has progressively gotten better and I am more familiar with my miss hits, I’ve realized I’ll aim more to the right as the loft goes up but I expect to almost block my 4 iron with all they lie angles set to standard. I’ve had a hell of a time trying to explain to people bending my clubs that I want the same set up as yours.
@@djparra41 you have done well to spot it so soon, well done. I struggled with my Wedges missing left for years before a Fitter suggested that they needed to be 2deg Flat and like magic I was able to attack Flags. I am convinced that having your Irons all at the same Lie angle is a mistake for a number of Golfers. I now look at each Iron individually to assess the Lie Angle/loft that it needs to achieve the Ball flight that I want, you have to find an accommodating Fitter/Pro to do this but it is really worth the effort👍
Also good to think about the lie of the ball on your courses. Most of the courses I play have the ball above my feet so more upright will help, too flat is disaster.
Just found this on the channel and I have subscribed - love it. It has got me thinking, if standard / backl dot is good for me, how would a longer or shorter shaft length affect the lie? I guess I'll need to find a good fitter.
on tape it says I should be 1-2 upright. I play my irons at 2 flat. Allows me to keep it far enough right when coming inside with my normal 5-7 yd draw.
So just to be clear if you have a great swing hitting pure shots getting great compaction you still can be different from other golfers that are hitting bit pure because of the person's height ? Person standing closer or further away from the ball? Thanks
Read somewhere that Lee Trevino had his irons 3 deg flat to stop him ever shanking the ball (as they just said here ‘when irons are too upright you will hit towards the heel’ - Shanksville!
As a beginner, my shots are both left and right with no consistency in my swing. Doesn't that make it more difficult to get properly fitted, and narrow down what lie I would need? Just curious.
This is a great question! For beginners hitting it left and right with no consistency it comes down to club face control. In that case I would rely on the static measurements of your wrist to floor and height to help get an accurate lie angle. Most of the time even with golfers that are very good their static and dynamic lie angle measurements are within a degree, yes there will be exceptions but for golfers that are not very consistent I would rely on the static measurement more. - Thomas
Never cared for the impact board since it sits a lot higher than where you impact the ground. Considering Pings can't be bent, I don't see the logic in that tape on a Ping club either... 😉. Yes, I get it's for fitting and ordering them but doesn't that make it hard to sell them when you get new irons? I mean there's only so many looking for a blue dot of Ping in that particular model. I'm nearly 2° upright by that chart. 6' 1/2" tall but I have 32" inseam and very long arms. 35" wrist to floor.
We have five store locations in the US but you can always do a virtual fitting or a fitting over the phone! Here are all of our locations and how to schedule an appointment - fitting.2ndswing.info/schedule-now/?gclid=Cj0KCQjw0K-HBhDDARIsAFJ6UGiv0KJoy6bOMWoCTavR_aJ914pFYlvXpHq955BaJ1113N7VcjONTNoaAmz_EALw_wcB Let us know if you have any other questions!
I respect Ping’s philosophy and their fitting charts are good starting points. But dynamic lie from TM or another launch monitor is still king. What if dynamic lie is good but path is 3 out and face is 5 closed for example and you have no certain idea with just a lie board and eyeing ball flight.
The people that are really missing the boat is places like golf galaxy. I got an iron fitting last year. Their fitting is a joke. I just did a pxg fitting and wow. Golf could be so much better if fitters actually did a good job
The only problem I have with this is that it works perfectly on paper, like most things in life. But in real-world situations, i.e., golf, those situations aren't always the same. Ball lie, feet position above or below ball, so on so on. I know so many golfers who tinker with their game to the point that it's detrimental.
I not only enjoyed this video, i believe I actually learned something. Thanks guys.
Great demonstration of the effects of lie angle on ball flight. I'd add that a new set should be measured for *actual* loft and lie angles when purchased as I've found that they're seldom perfect from the factory.
IMO the best way to test for lie angle is with a launch monitor that can provide information on dynamic lie and where on the club you hit the ball. I do wonder, and when next at my local custom fit shop, whether lie angle needs to change depending on length of the club - impossible to check when buying a new set of irons because most fitters only have one fitting club (either a 6i or 7i), but relatively easy to check on an existing set
Interesting set of data! Just measured my own wrist-to-floor and according to Ping chart that would be 0 to 1 flat with my height, Im playing 3 upright at the moment.
Will sure look in to do some proper re-fitting of my lie angle!
Important to remember that the color chart is only applicable to PING clubs. There is no standard across manufacturers. For example, a blue dot (1 upright) for PING is standard for Titleist. Those two manufacturers tend to be standard across their own product lines where Taylormade, for example, have different lie angles for different irons models. The TW blades are flatter than the P7MB blades. Test everything.
What an absolute joke!! The golf industry needs some sort of Authority. The fact that there's so much deception and confusion in the industry is pathetic! How in the world is there no no sort of uniformity in this industry? The majority information you get is either harmful or just misleading in general how is this even a thing?!
@@jacobr4558 I think that largely is a result of design philosophy by each manufacturer. PING have always lead the way when it comes to fitting with their color system. Other companies try to hit what they think is the largest segment of the market for their clubs knowing that most can be moved to fit the individual.
@@Zacharydderrick I honestly don't care why it is!. I just think it's pathetic that that is what it is right now. It is a pathetic jumbled mess at the moment
appreciate your knowledge on this Zach. I was freaking out today because I stumbled across the ping chart on TGW, which I hadn't seen for quite some time, so thought I'd check my measurements for the heck of it. I've always bought standard clubs. But the Ping chart shows I am in the blue range. Glad I found your comment before I went out and did something drastic🤣
How does club length affect lie angle in the Ping fitting system?
Good info. You mentioned that your strike was worse with the white dot. How does the lie correlate to strike tendencies? E.G. if a club is too upright or flat, can it cause a tendency toward toe or heel strikes?
I was just fitted for G425 blue dot clubs. Looking forward to using them.
Thank you for watching! PING make it so easy to dial in your lie angle - Thomas
You should have hit black to 😉 but I agree low angle changed my irons but I was badly fitted once
I appreciate the information. The video editing at 4:45 & 5:03 is confusing. You were hitting the blue dot 1 deg upright club shortly beforehand (and had not yet hit clubs with other lie angles). But the clips at those two times show a toe strike, which would be consistent with a club that is too flat for you. By contrast, your left-leaning dispersion pattern with the blue dot club suggests the club is too upright, as do your static measurements. It takes sharp eyes to notice that the two clips I've referred to are of the red dot 1 deg flat club that you hit subsequently and therefore are temporally incorrect in the video and confusing as a result. It would have been useful to also hit (and display stats for) the black dot club, which is "supposed" to be correct for you...to see what actually happened with it. I would have enjoyed some discussion about how TrackMan's Dynamic Lie statistic is useful (or not) for lie angle fitting. Thank you.
What are the dynamic lie measurements for each of these club types. I am registering a 68 dynamic lie with my white dot G425s. To correct for this should I move up towards silver or down towards green? Mishits slice.
In my experience, the more lofted my Irons are the flatter I need them, so my long Irons (4&5) are 1* Upright, mid-Irons (6,7 &8) are neutral and my Wedges (9, PW, 52 & SW) need to be 2* Flat. Which is why I don't play PING Irons because this just freaks out their Fitters!
Also unless you are a real DIGGER (that hits the ball fat) turf interaction affecting your ball flight (left or right) is something of a myth. IMHO your ball flight is mainly down to the relationship between your dynamic lie angle, your clubface at impact and your swing path. In reality, the little ball has already left the clubface, long before the club interacts with the BIG BALL.
That’s crazy! I’ve noticed the same exact thing recently. I’ve only been playing golf for two years now so every thought I have in my mind I can only assume it’s based in theory. But as my swing has progressively gotten better and I am more familiar with my miss hits, I’ve realized I’ll aim more to the right as the loft goes up but I expect to almost block my 4 iron with all they lie angles set to standard. I’ve had a hell of a time trying to explain to people bending my clubs that I want the same set up as yours.
@@djparra41 you have done well to spot it so soon, well done.
I struggled with my Wedges missing left for years before a Fitter suggested that they needed to be 2deg Flat and like magic I was able to attack Flags. I am convinced that having your Irons all at the same Lie angle is a mistake for a number of Golfers.
I now look at each Iron individually to assess the Lie Angle/loft that it needs to achieve the Ball flight that I want, you have to find an accommodating Fitter/Pro to do this but it is really worth the effort👍
Well put Bandit, I require the same adjustment to my irons!
@@banditbaker1675 I’ve noticed something similar with my irons...
@@josephwirtz8352 I'm convinced that many golfers would benefit from having their Wedges flatter than their longer Irons👍
Also good to think about the lie of the ball on your courses. Most of the courses I play have the ball above my feet so more upright will help, too flat is disaster.
Agree, thanks for watching - Thomas
Should i measure wrist and height barefoot?
As you would with your golf shoes on, since that's how you would be swinging the club(s)
I guess so, if you play golf barefoot. Are you from New Zealand ?
You forgot one thing: where exactly does the measurement of the wrist begin? Just above the grip? Am I wrong?
The outer bone
It’s always best to adjust lie angle based on ball flight. As he said, it’s because everyone swings differently.
Just found this on the channel and I have subscribed - love it. It has got me thinking, if standard / backl dot is good for me, how would a longer or shorter shaft length affect the lie? I guess I'll need to find a good fitter.
I also like the ping Color code on putters
on tape it says I should be 1-2 upright. I play my irons at 2 flat. Allows me to keep it far enough right when coming inside with my normal 5-7 yd draw.
I’m the same
Great vid and explanation
Glad you liked it! Thank you for watching!
So just to be clear if you have a great swing hitting pure shots getting great compaction you still can be different from other golfers that are hitting bit pure because of the person's height ? Person standing closer or further away from the ball? Thanks
Where do u get those lie angle tapes
Ping!
What happens if you have black dot irons but you extend them by an inch- do they become green dots in terms of lie angle?
Great video fellas.
If your prone to the shanks would a lie angle help in anyway? Nice job by the way👍
Read somewhere that Lee Trevino had his irons 3 deg flat to stop him ever shanking the ball (as they just said here ‘when irons are too upright you will hit towards the heel’ - Shanksville!
@@martywize5909 i think it's the other way around
Right, but is each lie angle different for each club even though they have the same color code?
Thank you I get fitted on Friday. Now I will understand what they are saying lol.
You are welcome. I hope you enjoy your fitting. Where are you getting fit? 2nd Swing I hope if you live near a store. - Thomas
I was waiting for the perfect lie. I wanted to se some straight shots 😕
As a beginner, my shots are both left and right with no consistency in my swing. Doesn't that make it more difficult to get properly fitted, and narrow down what lie I would need? Just curious.
This is a great question! For beginners hitting it left and right with no consistency it comes down to club face control. In that case I would rely on the static measurements of your wrist to floor and height to help get an accurate lie angle. Most of the time even with golfers that are very good their static and dynamic lie angle measurements are within a degree, yes there will be exceptions but for golfers that are not very consistent I would rely on the static measurement more. - Thomas
Never cared for the impact board since it sits a lot higher than where you impact the ground.
Considering Pings can't be bent, I don't see the logic in that tape on a Ping club either... 😉.
Yes, I get it's for fitting and ordering them but doesn't that make it hard to sell them when you get new irons? I mean there's only so many looking for a blue dot of Ping in that particular model.
I'm nearly 2° upright by that chart. 6' 1/2" tall but I have 32" inseam and very long arms. 35" wrist to floor.
Black is standard meaning if you address the ball correctly stance is the correct distance from the ball you will probably get fitted for black ??
Where are located for fittings??
We have five store locations in the US but you can always do a virtual fitting or a fitting over the phone! Here are all of our locations and how to schedule an appointment - fitting.2ndswing.info/schedule-now/?gclid=Cj0KCQjw0K-HBhDDARIsAFJ6UGiv0KJoy6bOMWoCTavR_aJ914pFYlvXpHq955BaJ1113N7VcjONTNoaAmz_EALw_wcB
Let us know if you have any other questions!
Can ping irons be changed if you realize you should be in blue dot and your playing black or red dot?? Please advise. Thanks
I respect Ping’s philosophy and their fitting charts are good starting points. But dynamic lie from TM or another launch monitor is still king. What if dynamic lie is good but path is 3 out and face is 5 closed for example and you have no certain idea with just a lie board and eyeing ball flight.
The people that are really missing the boat is places like golf galaxy. I got an iron fitting last year. Their fitting is a joke. I just did a pxg fitting and wow. Golf could be so much better if fitters actually did a good job
How about wedges? Lie angle matters?
Ben Hogan played irons that were a little flatter so that he could take the left hand side of the course out of play.
Lie angle and length affects accuracy as you seen with Lie Board
Great video. But before lie angle means anything. Your swing needs to be consistent and your shot must finish after the ball on the ground.
Lie boards can lie ,I used to have a high vertical swing plane (high hands into impact) so changing lie angle is only a quick fix.
This is awesome
Thank you for watching Rob!
The only problem I have with this is that it works perfectly on paper, like most things in life. But in real-world situations, i.e., golf, those situations aren't always the same. Ball lie, feet position above or below ball, so on so on. I know so many golfers who tinker with their game to the point that it's detrimental.
I thought that the toe is lower at impact than it is at address.
Nope, you thought wrong. Tough is a nit higher at address. 🙂
that is the wildest australian/american accent combination ive ever heard! lol
Such a Minnesota accent
Shame it wasn't a blind test.
SKOL!
Poor start. You should start explaining what lie angle is.