The ONLY WAY to fix a leaking 12-bolt GM rear diff pinion seal | Hagerty DIY
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- Опубликовано: 2 июн 2019
- Does your rear diff leak gear oil everywhere? Do you keep installing a new pinion seal and having the same problem? Everyone has or will have this problem when installing a new pinion seal in your 12-bolt GM rear differential, but Hagerty's Davin Reckow is here to help. GM made two different versions of the 12-bolt rear end: one for trucks, and one for cars. This means two different pinion seals. Unfortunately, the car version of the seal has been discontinued, and the truck version is the only one still available. Even if you walk into your local parts store and tell them it's for your Chevelle or Camaro or Impala, the one they'll have is the truck version. Most shops don't even know there was a difference. The solution to this problem is installing the available truck version of the pinion seal by using a spacer or by leaving a gap. This is the only way to ensure a quality seal with the yoke. Watch the video, solve your leaky rear differential problem, and maybe even be the hero and your next local cars & coffee.
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Doing some investigation on this issue because I have a 67 Nova SS that has a 12 bolt passenger in it. What I found is that this is spot on. Found lots of comments in numerous forums talking about this problem specifically and generally they will not seat the seal all the way. There was also someone that posted a part number that does fit the passenger rear axle correctly. National seal part 6109 for 63 to 79 corvette. Found this on summit and there were numerous comments saying that this was the correct seal for 12 bolt passenger. Strange also makes a seal STR-R5211D which is more money, but is correct for 12 bolt passenger. Another fix was mentioned was to put RTV sealant around the lip that sets down on the housing and stop 1/16 to 1/8. The RTV will set up and seal the gap if it was needed. They also mentioned creating two C shaped piece of sheet metal that would help space the seal out from the base the correct amount of space.
Thanks for the video and great advice. I replaced the seal on my old 12 bolt. The silly thing kept leaking. So I figured and an expensive repair. I stumbled on your video, and decided to check it out. I found a spring in my shop with a long enough tail on it, and was the right width. Cut off the tail, bent in in a circle real careful like, slightly smaller than needed so it would hold itself in there nicely. Backed out my new seal just enough to get the ring in there, tapped it back in tight to the ring, and lo and behold, works great! Not a drop. Thanks again!
I am glad you posted this! I have a lot of 12 bolt diffs,lots of c10's to put together,I will definitely be watching out for this when I tackle the diff seals soon! Thanks!!!
Well that explains everything! I was wondering why the new seal didn’t fit like the original when i rebuilt my 12 bolt last year.. great... now i need to be on the lookout for leaks... thanks for the tip!!!!
Guess what? After 1300 miles, my pinion seal leaks. I will follow your method for installing the new seal. Thanks again for the tip!!!
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Good find! Looks like you could turn the flange off of the seal so the outer edge is at the same height as the lip on the dust side. Effectively narrowing the seal the distance needed to get the inner lip on the yoke journal. Then install the seal until it's flush with the housing. The flush outer edge will insure the seal lips are perpendicular to the yoke. No extra metal or fabrication needed.
I recently had a shop install a Posi unit in my 10 bolt rear end and the shop called me to tell me they weren't happy in the way it was sealing so hopefully they watched your video in case a 10 bolt rear end has the same issue. It hasn't leaked any yet.
great info thank you for sharing!
I see exactly whats goin on! Thank u very much for this info i needed to know this i have a 69 c-10 and a 67 impala!
That is totally awesome advice so if I ever run into that situation I know what to do now
thanks for the informative video i have a 76 chev truck with a leaky pinion seal and now i know why
Was wondering why mine was leaking again after only 2 years and not much driving. Figured I messed up somewhere. Glad I found this video!
I know right? I mean there are MILLIONS of these rear ends out there. Summit has the correct one made by National seal part 6109 and it does fit perfectly, put it in my 68 Camaro 12 Bolt.
*_No Kidding! Good to know. Thanks man!_*
Hell yes.. I've been trying everything... this made my day!!
Strange Engineering PN/R5211D, 12 blt. “car” pinion seal. The pinion seal you need. Less hastle than what your doing. Worked great in my 71 SS. Jegs and eBay....
It’s like listening to an old mechanic spill the beans on all his secrets
Very well done, nice machine work as well!
Great job, on the info
Thank you I have a 12-bolt rear end in a GMC rally van 1982 and it is leaking crazy and I want to thank you for the help
This is only an issue with passenger car 12 Bolts, you probably just have a bad seal.
Good!!!Thanks for the tip!!!!
Execent info , Thanks , mine has leaked from day one , the brass brazing rod looks to be easy way , just put the gap at top or tack weld it and sand it smooth
I would probably put a bead of gasket sealer around the space of the seal where it is close to the housing, then it probably wouldn't matter what position the gap is.
I had a ring made today 1/8th just like yours. Going to give it a try as well on a 12 bolt.
My question is if you can remember, if the metal part of the seal has to be tapped into the rear end housing where the bearing an crush sleeve reside do I need to put rtv or any kind of gasket sealer there or between the ring and the seal? My ring has the tiniest bit of slop when you put it on the seal.
I suppose I could just cut the ring with a hacksaw, clamp the now open end together and then weld it to take care of the tiny slop, but their is gear oil In their, so like water if their is a hole it will find its way.
Man i appreciate it totally.
Thanks!
If you want to make sure you get all of the leaks, have the axle tube plug welds redone by a welder that has a high output TIG machine. The original welds were porous and spotty, allowing some gear oil to weep out of the plug welds over time. If you have a wife who goes nuts over any oil leaks on the driveway, it will save an argument or two.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the yoke still on goes in so far, on the seal, because of the construction of the of the seal. You will have the correct spacing to the bearing however.
Not quite sure what you're asking. The spacer moves the whole seal toward the front of the car, which moves it farther up the yoke, allowing the entire seal to sit on the largest OD section of the yoke. It basically makes the seal function as it was intended.
So is there enough room in the yolk to actually move the seal that 8th inch toward the front of the car? Or does the seal still stop on the back of the yolk even with the spacer thus putting the seal in the same spot still
Hagerty I see what Brian is saying, when you put the seal on the yolk, it didn’t contact the major diameter. So how would a spacer change the construction of the seal? I would think removal of some of the seal flange on the yolk side would be the only fix.
@@Hagerty
Quick question, could the spacer be a little thicker that 0.125? I had one made and it's 0.134, would the additional thickness be an issue?
Thank you that explains why no matter what manufacturer seal I use it still leaks I learned something tonight
If you go to a reputable bearing /seal supplier and go through their catalogues and find a seal that DOESN'T have the sealing surface offset to the front mounting flange you won't have to manufacture a spacer ring. Having said that, this is a good fix IF you have the equipment to turn up a spacer. But there there is more than one way to offset the sealing lip. Like your videos
Thank you so much for this video, my 04 escalade happened that I took it to mechanic and replaced the seal but there's a leak still I wonder why 😅
Good tip
Thanks for sharing! Do I have to add an 1/8 for a 72 12 bolt C-10
That’s a great tip
Outstanding!
Any way to cross reference another manufacturer’s part. Ford 9” possibly?
Your thinking inside the box. The 12 bolt was introduced in 65 lots of options out there mine don't leak and it's not shimmed out.
Thanks. I have a leaker.
Moser PS12B takes this into account so you don't need this spacer
so does Ratech 6109😁
I'm very curious.... I watched your last video when you did this modification. What I am wondering is if you push the seal as far as it will go up on the yoke (bottoming it out against the yoke) and it is not going far enough to seal on the sealing surface of the yoke, how is the spacer ring making the seal go past where it bottomed out on the surface of the yoke when it wouldn't go past the bottoming out without the spacer. Looks to me like you are not gaining anything with the spacer. When you tighten the nut on the yoke, it is going to crush the seal and ruin all chances of any kind of sealing. Also the yoke will be rubbing on the seal and cause almost instant failure. Only way this ring spacer will do any good is if when you demonstrated the oil sealing part of the seal not going far enough on the sealing surface of the yoke, there was still some space between the front of the seal and the back of the yoke. The way it appears in the video is you bottomed the front of the seal out against the back of the yoke. If this is the case, then the spacer ring will make more problems than it will fix.
But all this analyzing I'm doing may be all wrong if there is plenty of room for the seal to go 1/8 inch closer to the back of the yoke without hitting. If that is the case, then I just wasted 10 minutes of time..... But in my defense..... it didn't appear that way.
see 4:37, there is space
I'm missing something too Danny. Watched it 4 times.I must have a low IQ.
I think you are right. Really needs a longer yoke. Or this fix might just be reducing the amount of rubbing between the seal and bearing during operation?
It's going too far, Not , not far enough.
I’m wondering if that is what is going on with mine on my ‘17 Silverado with the 9.5” 12 bolt rear end. original seal had some seepage. I replaced it and it’s doing it again…
It's really hard for me to believe that this is an issue that no seal manufacturer has taken up to rectify. Why wouldn't Timken, SKF or Moog make the correct one? Just asking.
I don't think this problem applies if the seal does not have a lip flange on the outer edge. Just replaced pinion seal on a non-original 12 bolt car diff, not sure what year diff, but the seal did not have a lip flange and seating it fully caused no leak. The removed seal, which was leaking, looked very worn and aged.
Is this the same on the 2002 and 2006 Ford truck rear end. I have two different trucks leaking
Nice.
good video, not certain if it was available at the time of this vid but Ratech makes a seal, RAT-6109 in case anyone is interested, got mine thru Summit, think it is for a 12-bolt Vette, Regards
I have a 10 bolt in a Chevy Z71 and mine's doing the same thing
@hagerty i have a 2006 hummer h3, and just put a new differential pinion and still have leaks wonder if this is the same ,the h3 are made by gm, if so how much will you charge to make me one of those rings
You can put a sleeve over a harmonic balancer and seal it, maybe the same can be done for the diff, a bit longer
I don't think that will work because the end of the yoke is what collapses the crush sleeve so it needs to be strong. If you left the speedy-sleeve long, I think it would collapse when torqueing the pinion nut.
I'm a little lost if the seal won't go far enough on the yoke to clear the chamfered edge. What are you doing cramming the seal in? Won't that possibly cause a rubbing noise from the face of the seal and the yoke flange/dust shield?
You're thinking about it wrong. They are not suggesting "cramming the seal in", they are saying to not seat it all the way in to the lip, but leave it about 1/8" out. That way it should seal on the yoke seal surface.
I have a 1972 impala and my gear is a 12 bolt. I’m trying to figure out what size differential do I need for my car. My housing is 10 bolts as well
Will an OEM seal work without using a spacer?
Nice
Wonder would a o ring work too??
The pinion seal for a 12 bolt rear (car) is still available from Ratech part number 6109.
Hey bud I'm having this issue with my 03 suburban 5.3. can I get your info so I can buy one of those rings you make ? I would really appreciate it. Going through way to much gear oil and thanks to you I now know why it's still leaking.
Apparently this is only an issue with passenger car 12 Bolts, you probably just have a bad seal.
Are you saying that if I have a truck 12 bolt, I don't have to worry about that 1/8 of an inch?
where can someone buy this spacer?
I wonder if a Salsbury 10 bolt diff seal would work?
a GM 10 bolt second gen F body has same pinion size as this 12 bolt. I have not looked into the front seals though ... YET.
My seals come with a spring around it for a spacer
Tell me the part number for the original seal for the car and I will find you a seal that you can get now..
I have a 2002 chevy astro 2wd 4.3L. I have changed the pinion seal 4 times now and also changed out the yoke adapter sleeve (a seal in the yoke itself) and it is still leaking. I wonder if this is the solution now. Any idea if it's the same kind of differential as here?
Ratech seal thru Summit, RAT-6109
My 14 bolt does NOT stop leaking! Hopefully something like this is my fix
Can I buy one of those spacers?
The seal on my 9 inch needs replaced.
I'm sure you could make a few extra dollars on the side selling them rings.
or share the blueprint so your local machine shop can make it ^^
@@MotorStorm Or look for a match in a small piston ring.
Naw, you'll make waaaay more money selling R&P's to Toyota truck owners that shear the teeth of the weak factory parts.
I dunno, man. Looks good to me, but I just got told off when I dared ask about if it were possible/a big deal to reduce some costs by doing some of the work myself (simple body work to replace a damaged door and repaint) and bring things in when my car was at the point of needing a professional shop. Evidently, everyone's a "youtube mechanic" these days and his 40 years to my 20 years working on cars meant he was right to get pissy at having to do less work and still get paid for his time, and it'd be like "bringing your own floss to a dentist appointment." Never heard someone talk themselves out of a $1000+ (quoted) job so quick.
Lol no one wants to deal with someone else's shoddy work. It is way more of a hassle. And seeing some peoples work I can see why. In any profession it sucks dealing with other peoples bandaid fixes or "real attempts" at a fix.
The master
What about when the leaking issue is from inside diameter splines on the pinion yoke?
Put some RTV on the splines between the washer and the pinion.
gear lube will leak thru the splines, apply an anaerobic sealant to the splines inside the yoke before you install...
But if the yoke is bottomed out in the seal spacing it from the diff housing wont make a difference no?
Is this on the car or truck 12 bolt or both?
What heck man? I find it hard to believe that no one is making car 12 bolt seals considering how popular the axle is within the muscle car community. I have yet to find someone who was enthused about building a truck 12 bolt....
Well here's your first. It's me, I'm enthused about building my truck 12 bolt for my 66" C10 LOL
Ratech 6109 is the correct short seal.
Yep! 6109 works in a 69 Camaro, listed for a Vette I believe...
also, people always forget to apply an anaerobic sealant to the splines of the yoke, gear lube will slip thru the splines thinking it's the seal leaking,
I apply a sealant to the yoke spline instead of the pinion spline so as not to be pushed back to the bearings... as I have seen before...
Personally I blame squirrels
"Your father refuses to call the exterminator, says this time it's personal"
I have a Strange 12 bolt in my car.....will the new seals also leak on my pinion? I need to replace my current seal, its leaking.
The video says Moser extended the nose of the 12 bolt car housing to match the truck housing. Maybe call & ask Strange if they did the same thing.
@@CrashFix ....I found a shop in Lauderdale where I live who took care of it all. No more leaking fluid.
Is that a frog eye sprite bonnet in the back ground
Yup! We saved it from the crusher a few weeks ago! Saw a guy with it loaded in a trailer pulling into the scrapper. Chased him down and bought it for $10! Just a few small dents. Otherwise it's pretty solid.
@@Hagerty nice well done they are fairly rare here in the UK, they are the happiest car in the world though
Doesn't that push the seal into the pinion yoke and cause the cap on the yoke to ride on the seal seat ring?
what exactly did you use for the ring?..was that custom made?
Cat's Garage welding rod
@@602mycologist i saw the welding rod..i'm referring to the solid silver rings ...
@@MEC1955 Davin machined that out of a piece of steel he had laying around. He's got a lathe at his home shop.
@@Hagerty Thank you!!..do you know the dimensions?so ,i could have a machinist make me one...?
Kinda weird it’s completely discontinued, and no after market parts.. I’ve ran across seals that is still available by the OEM, and if it’s discontinued, an aftermarket is available.
@Lassi Kinnunen Yup. That's the issue. Every parts store will tell you that they have the part because that's what their computers tell them. But it's not the right part.
素晴らしい
You're in America speak English
Joe Nelson actually they are on the internet and can speak any language they bloody well like
Ratech 6109 is the correct seal
Please show Subaru motor fixing
Fredrick Mechanical ☹️🥺 it’s not a junk
You should be more specific when you reference GM 12-bolt since there are 3 different GM "12-bolts" these days.
What’s his name? Daven?
Davin
A Large rubber O-ring should work.
the correct seal by Ratech # RAT-6109 works better😁
E-BAY........NOS
Remove rubber part from old seal. Remove rubber part from new seal. You see where I going?
Sound like deboss garage today
here we go
SELL THOSE RINGS
I'll sell you the part number for a seal that's the correct size you can just buy... hahaha
Most will just drive it with a small leaking
Woow had to be me🤦♂️
Iove...u....Fc
Hmmm.... Fascinating. Seal leaking because it's in too far. Who'd a thunk?
Moser MSR-PS12B will solve the problem... Moser made these seals so the seal isnt as recessed
Does the El Camino use the car seal, just replaced mine and it still leaks.
@michaelbox7285 They usually leak because the seals are to long. I went through 3 different seals before finding the Moser-PS12B which is shorter so the seal rides on the shaft and not on the end of the shaft where the radious is because thats what causes the leak..
Pongan subtítulos en español a sus vídeos!
Sorry don't understand a word you said because it's not English which is our language
Get a Ford 9 inch.
This is BS. @ 1;50 you pushed the seal tight against the yoke dust shield and adding a spacer wont push it on any further.
buy the correct GM part: New OEM GM Differential Pinion Seal P/N: 26064030 ONLY way, common man...
Buying inferior parts will make you pay in the long run every time.
that's a AAM 10.5 seal---not close
GM and leaking on the same word hahahahahaha
Ummm that's not gonna work
Don't you have to cut the top down so it's not rubbing
Na. Too much work. The easiest way it to through that pos in the recycling bin and use a real diff
Can you just make us ill