Risking it for Sound - Worth it
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- Опубликовано: 26 авг 2024
- There’s tuning low, then there’s tuning just above a wrinkle (JAW) and then there’s what we’re doing today. And before you wonder, “would this even be applicable in any sort of real context?” this came at the request of a producer on a recent session Cody was teching for with a very well known drummer.
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PRODUCTION PARTNERS:
GIK Acoustics (sonic treatment): sladl.ink/GIK
AKG Audio (microphones): sladl.ink/AKG
Evans Drumheads: sladl.ink/Evan...
ProMark Drumsticks: sladl.ink/ProM...
Signal chain:
Mics - Focusrite Clarett 8Pre USB- Mac Studio w/Pro Tools 2024.3.1
Recorded at 48kHz / 24bit
Microphones: Pair of AKG C314 in Recorderman Configuration
Toms: AKG C518M
Kick Drum: AKG D12VR
Snare: Lauten Snare Mic
Acoustic Treatment:
GIK 242 Acoustic Panels
GIK 4A Alpha Pro Series Diffusor/Absorber
GIK Evolution PolyFusor Combination Sound Diffuser/Absorber
GIK Tri-Trap Corner Bass Trap
Drums:
Pearl Masters Maple Custom Extra, 70s Ludwig Supraphonic
Cymbals:
22” Jesse Simpson clone of old Zildjian A, 15" Zildjian Prototype Hihats
Drumheads:
Snare: Evans G12 Coated / Snare Side 300
Toms: Evans UV2 Coated / G1 Clear
Kick Drum: Evans UV EMAD / EQ3 Coated Reso
Hosted by: Cody Rahn
Production & Consulting: Ben O'Brien Smith @ Cadence Independent Media
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Fantastic! I appreciate the extremes. Especially when not our favs. Final thought is great! Thank you! 10 out of 10!
One perk of having super low tuned drums is that it builds up your hand strength.
Works great with a 4pc. kit, but once you try that with multi-tom setups, especially multiple floor toms, the relative pitch difference between the toms disappears and, yes, in fact, they DO start sounding like the SAME bass drum!
You're right, but that could easily be a stylistic choice. Baard Kolstad of Leprous rocks 5 toms tuned super low like this video and I think it works beautifully with his playing. I could also point to the drummer of The Chariot, who used his toms most often by hitting them both at once for a big stomping effect. He just wanted two drums simply to sound big, not to necessarily articulate different pitches.
a low tuned concert tom with several of its lugs taken out completley produces something in a similar vein with a lot more pitch modulation, but it only sounds good with a really close mic. in the room they have basically no tone.
Brand X - Unorthodox Behavior album is a great example
That intro tone is sweet.
Thanks! That’s the same raw sound from the featured tuning of this episode.
@@SoundsLikeADrumwooden Jesus right there tho. Nice
And then comes Derek Roddy with his Toms tuned only fingertight, both batter and resonant heads 🫠
Glad I wasn't the only one thinking immediately of Derek. 😄 His "Jam 2" video is legendary.
As a recording engineer/producer, I have to say that the number one trick to make your drums sound better, and mix into your music better is to tune your toms UP. That being said, when I paly drums I tune mine as low as possible. haha
But surely as a recording engineer/producer you know how "better" is entirely dependent on context, right? Was the producer who requested this sound wrong to ask for it or is it impossible for us to even make that determination because, again, it's dependent on context?
I really enjoy your process and attention to detail. Have you ever considered doing a few videos on electronic drums? I have recently been forced to switch from like 20 years of only acoustic playing to a Roland TD-27 being the only thing I have access to. The stock kits in the module sound really unnatural and it seems to be much more of an issue with factory settings than the real potential of the sampled sounds. It's weird to me that Roland would make even their basic workhorse kits so wacky. I have edited them to sound much closer to the real thing on my own, but I'm undereducated. Would love to see your skill applied to dialing in various real-world sounds on edrums. I haven't found much content like that, and I've been looking. Definitely some great guys out there, but nothing that goes into the level of detail I'd like.
Thanks! Thats something we’d consider getting into but it would require some serious financial support for us to do it justice and we just don’t have that.
Maybe im crazy, but i like the tuned all the way down sound. I also play a vistalite so maybe that has something to do with it 😅
Great stuff! As usual! 👌 I like to tune the 16” most of the times to sound sort of like bass drum anyway… also been thinking about trying those uv2 heads and i think this an perfect excuse to do that since they seem to be lot more durable than for example emperors or g2:s… atleast I guess so because I have tried uv1 on one of my snares and it doesnt even really have stick markings and its been on it for a while… rock on fellas and keep up the good work! You are appreciated! 🤘
What about sticks? It will make a great difference if you use 5Bs or 5As or 7As on this tuning. 7As sound particularly interesting with this tuning.
Nice video, nice presentation. Thanks! I feel like, however, there was not a lot of dynamic range. You appeared to be hitting those toms really hard during your demonstration, but they weren't that much louder then when you hit them really lightly. Likely due to the double ply heads. In some situations where the drums are not mic'd you might have to work really hard just to be heard. I've heard drums tuned pretty low that produce a lot more volume, but there are going to be other differences in the sound - a tradeoff between the amount of ring/resonance vs a more controlled sound and the volume you can get - a matter of preference. Anyway, not criticism, just an observation.
Also, it's important to know that larger diameter drums can be tuned lower. For example, I can tune my 18" floor tom a lot lower than my 13" mounted tom.
Thanks again for another great video. There is something with the sound. Maybe it's youtube, I don't know, but compared to other youtube your video, although they are very helpfull and informative, the drums sound like you are hearing them from a distance (that's the best description i can give) even with quality headphones on.
Thanks for the feedback though we're unable to replicate the experience you've described, particularly in comparison to other videos of ours utilizing the same equipment. It's possible that your headphones aren't connected properly or have a wiring issue, which is making a stereo mix sound thin (this is only during our demos- not the narrative portion).
Is it possibly you're reacting to how Sounds Like a Drum does not use any compression? Most "well recorded" drums you see on RUclips are quite compressed. Sounds like a drum are attempting to give us an approximation of what the drums sound like in the room before any mixing or mastering takes place. (To be clear compression is not good or bad, simply a stylistic choice!)
@@SoundsLikeADrum The sound in this video is no different that the previous videos. My comment was about the sound of your videos in general. In anyway, I love your videos, it's just the sound that I would like to be more up front and lively like other videos I see on youtube.
@@kt-nf2jx Ah, yes. What you're describing is the fact that we don't process our recordings because we want to deliver authentically transparent raw audio. There are lots of people who think that their acoustic drums are supposed to sound like what they hear on records without knowing much about how dramatically the signal chain and mixing/mastering affect the recorded sound. We decided from the onset that, if we were going to adequately cover the topics of tuning and drum sound in a realistically educational manner, we wanted to provide a more acoustically transparent presentation of those sounds. Unless specifically noted, our videos feature drum sounds that were left without EQ, compression/limiting, gating, reverb or delay. We focus our mix primarily on the overheads rather than the close mics (because it's quite rare for anyone to judge drum sounds with their ear only a couple inches from the source).
@@SoundsLikeADrum Right, I see. Recording mostly from the OH, explains the fact that I am hearing them like being at a distance. Thanks for the clarification! Please keep up the good work you are doing with your channel!
they can sound okay live / acoustic but above wrinkle sounds fantastic when mixed and you have a great drummer. A good example is Chris Turner. Super hard hitter and makes his drums super thuddy without the use of any samples.
The most important thing you mentioned in your comment is how hard Chris hits. These low tunings sound best when you really know how to hit the toms to get the best sound possible out of them.
@@dalekay9ine and how consistently too, which is arguably even harder
@@RBDrums definitely
If you want to get real low, try unision tuning with Emperors or G2s on batter and reso for the toms. Makes it sound like you're summoning Satan with each fill.
Ah, that won’t go quite this low as you need thinner reso to be more easily activated by the minimal batter tension. The added mass actually prevents activation unless you’re hitting ultra hard, which is why we were able to achieve the sounds demonstrated here.
@@SoundsLikeADrum Thats true! I don't think I've ever tried getting as short of a sound as you delightful gentlemen achieved here. But if you like that low sound and still want it to have a little bit of resonance... for example on my 12" tom, with a G2/G1 combo, the lowest I can tune without sounding like a splat, is the batter at E3 and reso at G3 for a final note of A2. WIth a G2/G2 batter/reso, I can tune both heads to D#3, still get the drum to resonate, and the final note of the drum is F#2... so about 3 semitones lower.
I know you guys did a video on unison tuning awhile back, but you should try it with G2s or EC2S/G2 batter/reso and see what you can get!
Maybe this is a good place for this question; maybe it's the worst place for it lol But I've been thinking a lot lately about it, and this episode is related . . . in that I am a big, high-tuned toms and kick guy, you know big band and bonham and such. Well I'm still using these old, 1-ply, likely 7mm factory heads on this big kit. So I'm looking it up, and I keep getting recommended coated emperor batters and coated ambassador resos. And on my normal sized, normal tuned kit I use evans G2s and love them, but that's because they're high mass and 2-ply and tuned low. This high tuning, I would have thought the opposite logic would apply. That if I want to move all that air in them big drums real fast, tight tuning and low mass. So before buying all kinds and spending a month comparing, I thought I would ask for thoughts. Sorry it's kind of the opposite of this topic. Just struck me as the time and place for it.
In my experience you are correct that high drums will have more resonance with thinner heads. It will give more upper range before the drums start to choke out. I'd say Coated ambassadors would be my preference
@@KaiOwensDrums Thank you Kai
Just to addend the question: I really like the sound of G2 heads and have them on every other drum I own lol But they're basically like coated emperors in terms of mass, right? So, more beef? Or maybe that's too much tension for those things? I think more bonzo tuning videos, like it or not, are sorely needed on here. There are a handful, and one or two are good. The rest, maybe the tuning was great but the creator was not a producer, just a drummer with a phone in a room. Does that make sense?
Would hydraulics be a better option?
I have both, just wondering
"Better" is entirely subjective here, as they will present different results. If you've got both, try 'em both and see which YOU prefer. Enjoy!
I would have liked to hear the snare in the same range.
As much as I like the idea of tuning to the deepest of all depths, I know if I do they probably won't last a full day of heavy hitters using my kit as backline, and they might get detuned faster... So I tune for a deep but round tone.
We’ve got an episode coming out in a couple weeks on this side of the coin…
@@SoundsLikeADrum On festival backline? I'll show myself out.
You said you didn't do anything to the resonant side, but what did you do to tune the resonant side to start with?
We just tuned them up for the initial sound, slightly higher than the batters. The specific interval isn't important and will change depending on what works for your drums/environment/preferences.
Well….what‘s about the cymbal thing ?
Say what?
@@SoundsLikeADrumi think that supposed person wants to hear more than toms. likely typing that message from jupiter
@@SoundsLikeADrum I would believe it’s about the vertical cymbal
@@PerPersson1 It's a custom mod that Jesse Simpson did.
I spy “the snare” mic
Yep! We've been having fun with it and have used it in a handful of episodes here (and a bunch of other projects) over the last year. We really dig it!
Sounds like mario duplantier back in the early 2000s lol
Most of the music I like is higher-tuned, but every once in a while, you just want fat.
Right? It’s fun to switch things up, especially if most of your playing tends to center around a particular range of the instrument.
What about a medium high rack tom and a low floor tom? That's fun to play with for me!
Sound a lot like cardboard boxes.
Not at all (from a literal sense) but we understand what you mean. It’s a uniquely styled sonic treatment that’s certainly worth the experimentation. There’s a lot to be learned if you’re willing to suspend your disbelief and open your mind
@@SoundsLikeADrum I’m not knocking people that want this sound….but….the lack of clarity, tone, etc.. create a sound that I think one could just about achieve through cardboard boxes. Still doesn’t mean it’s not a viable sound in some situations.
@@topsyturvy5485 We understand that you're not knocking anyone, but we question if someone could actually faithfully reproduce this through cardboard boxes (since this is the second time you've made that specific reference). Even if the sound could be produced through the use of cardboard boxes, we'd have to solve for a variety of other problems that aren't present with the use of drums.
@@SoundsLikeADrum Maybe your next video? Worth a shot for the drummers on a budget!
Sounds Great!!!