Everyone always asks where is Maegor Brightflame, no-one asks how is Maegor Brightflame. Actually that's not true, nobody asks either of those questions. Except for me.
I really like the Marwyn idea. It would give us another interesting parallel between Jon and Dany, both being guided by an older Targaryen maester. In one case the pupil is a hidden Targ, in the other the teacher is. Plus Marwyn's associates (sex workers, sailors, accolytes and commoners) somewhat remind us of his uncles and fathers associates (Daeron's whoring, Aerion's exile across the narrow sea, Aemon at the citadel and the quill and tankard, Egg's adventures with Dunc and the small folk). Once again, a quality concept with just the right amount of tinfoil!
I wonder if the idea of Maegor predates the Blackfyre plots and Young Griff? We get hints that something is brewing, but Young Griff is not introduced until much much later. Was the rival claimant supposed to be a Brightflame descendant instead of a secret Blackfyre (supposedly)? Maybe that's why he exists, but is part of the 'untraceable' Targaryens club. I think it's also possible he was carried away to Essos by his mother, and since no trouble came from it, he was left alone. He was clearly not considered a threat since the possibility is not mentioned once around Blackfyre Rebellions or the War of Nine Penny Kings. He could have died as a baby, but wouldn't that be mentioned in the histories? "Prince Aegon was voted King, and baby Meagor died shortly after."
Yeah, I think Maegor is first mentioned (not by name) in Clash which came out around the same time as the Hedge Knight I believe, whereas the Blackfyres don't get mentioned til Storm - so it makes sense that the Brightflames were the original dissident Targ house, and Maegor being a loose end is a result of grrm switching it to the Blackfyres (which would likely make this video redundant but so it goes)
I believe that GRRM always had the idea for a Targaryen cadet house, but changed it from Brightflame to Blackfyre because, well, who in their right mind would support an asshole like Aerion?
What if aegon sent maegor to be raised at Starfall aegon's mother and maegor's grandmother was a dayne. Maegor would be with family and in the care of one of the only houses that would be a strong aegon supporter
Would be a good place to hide his Valyrian features if he had them among the Valyrian-looking Daynes, perhaps they could pass him off as some obscure member of a branch of House Dayne? Perhaps he settles down, has kids, they have kids... Darkstar Brightflame?!
I like to think that Maegor is Mance, Marwyn and the High Sparrow at the same time and just uses Qyburns Jetpack to travel around the continent. I believe Grrm will confirm this, by having three chapters by Cersei, Theon and Sam that take place at the same time, in which Marwyn/Mance/Howland Reed act weirdly and have to leave every two seconds and then continue the conversation like nothing happened. Truly brilliant writing!
The sigil shown at 0:53 is Aegon II’s personal sigil. Aerion Brightflame’s sigil was the red three headed dragon on black with a red head, orange head, and yellow head.
I think Marwyn is the only one that makes any sense. It would be pretty cool too, but I think it's more likely, as others have suggested, that originally George wanted to make young Griff (and most likely Varys) a Brightflame, and Maegor is just a surviving seed planted for that possible storyline. But then at some point while writing Dunk & Egg he came up with the Blackfyres & went with them instead Leaving poor baby Maegor as nothing more than an interesting piece of trivia for us freaks to theorycraft with until (if) 'Winds' ever comes out 😅
I had to pause though when the prospect of Varys being a fully grown Prince Maegor Brightflame Targaryen was raised if I am being honest lol. GRRM is very careful to never describe his eye color and we have no idea of his hair color either as he is completely shaved. People do age differently and substantially so . . . Lord Varys could be how old?!? Prince Aerion Brightflame was banished to Lys after the Tournament at Ashford and that is where Lord Varys calls home so . . . I can't get past the possibility of Varys being the fully grown Maegor Brightflame Targaryen.
@@cliffordrose4335 ya, I do think this was George's initial intent. But then he came up with the Blackfyres & decided to go that route. Either would be cool, but whatever the case, I definitely think Varys is some type of Targaryen. It just makes too much sense But if it's Marwyn that's an adult Maegor, it would actually help to make sense of that cryptic line from Moqorro- "Dragons old and young, true and false, bright and dark. And you. A small man with a big shadow, snarling in the midst of it all." Old- Aemon Young- Jon True- Dany False- fAegon Bright- Marwyn/Maegor Dark- Varys? (If Varys is a Brightflame, not sure who would be dark, then) Just thinking out loud but if this is the set up, then you'd have 3 young Targaryens (3 heads of the dragon?!) each with an elder Targ to mentor them. And Tyrion has interacted with all of them to some degree, except for Marwyn. At least not yet I was thinking this theory was a long shot at best, because I wasn't sure it made much sense thematically or brought much to the table narratively, but now idk... 🤔
@@jsull81 I think I would be okay with Marwin the Mage being the fully grown Prince Maegor Brightflame Targaryen. There are just too many places he could possibly be if alive because he is just too attenuated in time & space from when we lost track of him during the coronation of 👑 Aegon V. The most streamlined development for the baby Prince Maegor Brightflame is the formation of the cadet branch of House Dayne and the Targaryen financed construction of High Hermitage for the grandson of Lady Dyanna and Prince Maekar. The word "hermitage" translates to "the disinherited" and doesn't "High Hermitage" sound like a remote, really recluse residence for royalty in the Red Mountains of Dorne If you really REALLY think 🤔 on it?!? That is where the Egg we came to know in the aSoI&F novellas would have sent his mother's grandson so he could live a great life of considerable comfort and well outside the snake's nest that was King's Landing where he could likely get corrupted as Daemon Blackfyre was by bitter and disgruntled opportunists. This would make him the biological father in his early 40's or late 30's of the newborn Gerold Dayne so there's value in that revelation too. Princess Arianne's offspring with him "would be as beautiful as the Dragonlords of Old Valyria" she predicted and her father Prince Doran Martell said he was "the most dangerous man in Dorne" curiously enough. What say you?!? This fills in the blanks about his mysterious family tree which has absolutely no one identified on it and no nexus with House Dayne whatsoever.
The answer is likely boring and that is Maegor just grew up always exiled and just had a family. Valyrian looks are still in southern Essos so a baby growing up and just not caring about the throne and living a normal life is possible. And this still sets up Aegon to possibly be Maegor's grandson. Aegon's identities by liklihood go as follows: 1. Legitimate 2. A Brightflame (A cadet branch, but still legitimate, just not the son of Rhaegar) 3. A Blackfyre 4. A random peasant Honestly, the first two are easily the most entertaining possibilities. I know fans have latched onto the (f)Aegon theory to the point of delusion, but Aegon being legitimate or a Brightflame make the actual succession between him and Dany more interesting.
I really like the idea of Marwyn being Maegor, but given he's a Brightflame, you'd think he'd support Young Griff, but it's Dany that he rushes to see. It could be that he loves dragons, like you said, or he could be a spy or determined to undermine her. If Marwyn is Maegor, what do you think his intentions could be?
Hmm, hard to say for sure. I think the Brightflames are closer to the main Targ branch than they are to the Blackfyres, as they're trueborn where the Blackfyres are bastards. Apart from that, I reckon it's cos Dany has dragons. Marwyn's love of dragons doesn't really need an explanation, but being Maegor, son of Aerion, who was unhealthily obsessed with them, would provide one possible reason why he drops everything to go and help Dany - he's got that slightly insane Targaryen obsession with the dragons that so many of them have after the dragons die
I think a good candidate is tatters, the tattered prince I think he’s called, he could’ve been left behind in essos when aerion came back to Westeros for the blackfyre rebellion, they say he was a prince of Pentos, but maybe he was just a prince IN pentos, and maybe he was chosen to be the sacrificial prince of pentos bc his father died in Westeros
Wasn’t there an old ranger at the night’s watch called Squire Dalbridge, so called because he once squired for an unknown king. Could it be possible that Maegor was kept around at court until a squiring age, until Aegon decided he was too dangerous to be there and so entrusted his nephew with his brother Aemon and make him join the black?
Could be! I like the idea that there are some extremely minor background characters that have big secrets that we will never actually know but grrm does know. Makes the world feel bigger
A lot of people think George’s allusions to a character he regrets killing are about Aemond and that Dany needs another Targaryen for what George has planned. I wonder if he could use Maegor Brightflame as a stand-in for poor Aemond
George RR is clearly a genius but I gotta wonder what the general audiences reaction is gonna be when everyone at Castle Black is devastated that they cant revive Jon Snow because they don't have a kings blood they need for the ritual after he sent every possible source away but then melisandre points at Old Henly ...
My money is on Maegor Bright Flame having been a loyal Aegon V guy and then died at Summerhall weather henleft any issue is up in the air but I would guess that he is very much dead, he probably squired for one of the Kingsgaurd and met his end with most of his family.
Targaryens sometimes offered heirs to the faith as tokens of good will to help improve relations. Especially Jaehaerys who sent one of his daughters, Maegelle to join the faith as a way of further ensuring good will with the faith. And by all accounts, she became a very good septa.
Incredible video! Please keep making theories, your topics are things that feel new, and you explain them well. Also I love the stupid little joke dialogues you put next to the characters. Top stuff all around
I like to think Maegor and Vaella, the other young claimant at the Great Council of 233 probably lived comfortable and happy lives as a prince and princess. I assume if Martin was planning to do something remarkable with Maegor, it would have already been mentioned. Hopefully we found out more about them in Fire and Blood Volume 2; I bet they either get involved in some minor rebellion/conspiracy and get killed/punished, died young in a tragedy or lived simple lives and died with their possible families at the Tragedy of Summerhall. I'm assuming Maegor probably didn't have any viable female descendants because if he did I'm sure Rhaegar would have married his daughter/granddaughter. I assume its the same way for Vaella.
Maybe he died at Summerhall, like many other Targaryens? It’s not fun or particularly interesting, but a logical assumption to make for someone that should by all means be around, yet hasn’t been mentioned since he was a baby. If Aegon V simply left the kid alone, since he is still family, then perhaps he would’ve been a guest and yet another casualty of that tragedy.
My theory: he’s been hiding out on Dragonstone where his hair would go unnoticed. He’s going to return in the last chapter of ADOS and say just like Samwise Gamgee “Well, I’m back.”
There’s the FAegon Brightfyre theory there. Is clear that at the begining of ASOIAF Martin had not yet thought of the Blackfyre rebellions, but he of course did about the Mummer’s Dragon Plot or something similar (Just look at Illyrio and Varys conversation), and the character of Aerion Brightflame came not much later in the tales of Dunk and Egg. At the begining of the story he was probably going in that direction, but later created the Blackfyre plot so they can have a broather net of connections and influence that predates all that. With that said, is weird for George to present Maegor in the World of Ice and Fire and not give anymore details, so it is possible that plots are interconected. After the defeat of Maelys in the Fifth Blackfyre Rebellion the male line got probably already extinct, and probably there’s another generation before arriving to Serra (Illyrio’s wife and alleged mother of Young Griff), so it is possible that Maegor Brightflame married a Blackfyre to cement Both causes, it makes in fact perfect sense, as this would mantain the claim to the Iron Throne for the Blackfyres and also the Valyrian incest tradition.
He probably just died in infancy, like about have of the Targaryens seem to. Boring, but Occam's razor. GRRM is unlikely to include such a minor character in the main series when he hasn't even been mentioned in it yet, and we have enough potential secret Targs around.
Maegor could be Marwyn, Maegor could be in exile in Essos as a nobody, Maegor could be the High Sparrow, Maegor could be Darkstar's great-grandaddy, Maegor could be Ser Pounce and Tyrek Lannister, a scary skinchanging Targaryen...but at the end of the day, the most likely possibility is he either died young from some random minute thing (a-la the high child mortality of the setting, or a disease) or more likely went up in flames with the majority of the Targaryens in Summerhall...maybe that's what Aerion's dream about waking dragons was about: he saw his son's death, his son looked very much like him, and then saw Daenerys' dragons being born on Khal Drogo's pyre.
Great video I think GRRM has been clearly having fun with secret identities it would be great if there was one we the audience were never in on like with. Maegor Brightflame, especially because he’d have a better claim than Aegon, Daenerys, or Jon. Imagine if he is the high sparrow or under the faith’s protection. It would give even more reason to why they want to prove Tommen to be a bastard-incest abomination. It would bring more conflict to the crownlands. The Mance theory is fun too.
In gonna say he was sent east to live out his days as a regular person depending on his age, possibly unaware of his lineage and if you do the math he would be too old to be varys however he would be old enough to be his father which could be why the sorcerer took varys
When you mentioned the age range and he might have been sent to the wall, my first thought was Craster. He was supposedly a the son of a NW man and a wildling woman, but if he were brought to the wall as an infant, he might still need a wet nurse (possibly a wildling), and would have regarded that woman as his mother. If he had prophetic dreams, it would make a little more sense why he was sacrificing sons to hold back the long night.
Cool theories but i think that Maegor was obsessed with dragons as his father was and since its not unreasonable to think that sheepstealer could be still alive somwhere in the wilderness of the Vale of Arryn he went out to search out the truth of the last of the dragons Or so says the fanfic i made in my head for F&B pt2
In The World of Ice and Fire at the start of the text to Aerys' reign there is a hint many miss. The text says only a pair (!) of lonely targaryen branches are still existing and thats why succesion of targaryens is in danger. One of them means the Aerys-Rhaella-little Rhaegar branch but the other one is not explained. Narrative wise it doesn't make sense for that one to be a Duncan-branch as that one is out of succession it can only be Maegor with perhaps a wife and a single child by then. That means in 262, Maegor is still alive and survived infancy as well as Summerhall...
But still nobody mentions or considers him as possible heir at the downfall of targaryens neither does he make a move. It would be strange if he sits in some lords keep at the start of RR, there must be some good explanation what become of him
Could be - it would be nice if Aegon actually kept Maegor around (probably against the advice of his more politically savvy mates) and raised him alongside his own kids, and they got along really well and there was no question of rebellions or anything like that. And then they all die in a fire cos no-one is allowed to be happy in these books
I have another missing person, who might need some tinfoil investigating: Aegon Bloodborne Frey, listed as an outlaw in the appendix but never mentioned in the story
We never actually hear any indication of Dolorous Edd's age in the books... But speaking seriously, I'm sure GRRM would say he just died young. The Blackfyres replaces the Brightflames as the secret-subversive Targaryens in GRRM's mind between THK and TSS
Not saying I believe it, but Maegor Brightflame being the high sparrow and revitalizing the old religious militant order his namesake destroyed is such delicious Irony
New theory: Aegon the Unlikely and Bloodraven knew about Aegons Prophecy (which is the real reason Bloodraven went to the Wall), so they recruited Aemon and baby Maegor as well in the North to discover a way to fend off the end of all life. Maegor as Mance would be perfect because all those Wildlings would be a massive army for the White Walkers.
Its your video guy but the fact that I have paused it 45 times, being only halfway through, to try and read the references has left me somewhat annoyed and a little more than stressed.
this is actually a good vid. I see what mess you have in your playlist but his vid is very fun and good. Hope you do more such vids with obscure characters, especially ones cut from the shows. Theory crew is kinda lacking atm and we mostly have click baiters in top search results.
Have you ever considered that 👑 Aegon V may have sent Prince Maegor Brightflame to live on with his noble kin of House Dayne at Castle Starfall 🏯?!? There he could have a great life without the turmoil and tornent that befell Daemon Blackfyre who was raised at court in the Red Keep where disgruntled lords and knights whispered manipulations in his young trusting ears. He could be raised as a noble of House Dayne without any indication of his true identity as the heir and grandson of King Maekar Targaryen and Lady Dyanna Dayne - Targaryen. Of all the options you proposed I submit that placing the baby Prince Maegor into a security protocol as a Dayne via his grandmother's House would the most plausible and character consistent decision that King Aegon V could have made for the guardianship and well-being of his royal Targaryen nephew. Perhaps a remote royal residence in the Red Mountains of Dorne could be financed through the Targaryen royal treasury . . . High Hermitage!?! Did you know that the word "hermitage" translates to the disinherited?!? Sounds like a feasible theory to me and it fills out the mysterious background of the Darkstar ~ Ser Gerold Dayne if he was in fact the biological son of a 40 something or 30 something Maegor Brightflame born in 270 - 274 AC right!?! What say you??
@@somewhat_annoyed_llama Thank you so very much for the swift reply ☺️. I have been an ardent proponent of the (f)Viserys theory since last decade as I learned about (f)Aegon and it sparked my curiosity that GRRM might have a personal fetish for the literary trope of false identity provided that there are well over 17 them spread throughout the aSoI&F books. Blue hair dye to disguise an alleged false identity Targaryen in Young Griff right?!? Why couldn't that midnight black streak of hair in the Silvery-White head of Ser Gerold Dayne wash out too as hair dye?!? This was my thinking 🤔 because everything about him is too damn curious and mysterious via his background. Now if the midnight black streak is real as he inherited it from his biological father Prince Maegor Brightflame however . . . then that is a plausible secondary theory for him. It is actually easier to get him from the baby son of Prince Aerion Brightflame to Ser Gerold Dayne than to get the 8.5 year old boy king 🤴 Viserys III so crowned by her Grace 👑 Rhaella Targaryen after the sack of King's Landing to the fully grown up Ser Gerold Dayne as I have expounded which was facilitated by Prince Doran Martell as his constructive custodian and Lady Ashara Dayne who led the reception party from Castle Starfall 🏯 that awaited the Dragonstone ship led by Ser Willem Darry. This secondary theory is more streamlined lol.
@@cliffordrose4335 interesting, so is the fake Viserys theory that Darkstar is the real Viserys and Viserys is someone else? On the black hair, the person who did the art for Maegor gave him that streak of black hair, though I don't know whether that is based on a anything. Still, food for thought
@@somewhat_annoyed_llama Yes the (f)Viserys theory is explored in my second reply to you. I was at first quizzical 🤨 about all the substitutes, frauds, imposters, bastard deceptions and baby swaps spread voluntarily and knowingly throughout the aSoI&F books series but then Princess Myrcella in FEAST is assigned a royal decoy in her cousin Rosamund for her security protocol to Dorne as well as a sworn sword 🗡️ in Ser Aerys Oakhart of the Kingsguard. I thought 🤔 why would the Targaryen loyalists of Dragonstone Castle 🏰 think less of the TRUE GENUINE heir to House Targaryen in Prince 🤴 Viserys III than the Lannister loyalists of the Red Keep would for a false royal princess?!? Would an uncle do more for his niece and nephew than a mother would do for her last living child!?! Did you notice that the 👑 Viserys III we met in GAME could not speak a word of High Valyrian to his "sister" while they were in mixed company traveling with the Khallasaar? That he had a severely flawed grasp of the sociopolitical standings of the Great and Lesser Houses of Westeros in DAENERYS chapter I and that the source of all Daenerys misinformation was from him?? Did you notice that he didn't know how to convincingly wield a sword 🗡️ despite years of supposedly being raised and trained by the Targaryen Master-at-arms ~ Ser Willem Darry?!? I submit that with over half a year of gestation sanctuary for 👑 Rhaella Targaryen on Dragonstone Castle 🏰 and easy, discrete access to the Dragonseed boys that populated Dragonstone village with Purple eyes and Platinum hair and yes perhaps some with the full trifecta of Valyrian blood traits so highlighted by ArchMaester Gyldayn in "Fire and Blood" . . . an aquiline nose. How implausible would it be for the Targaryen loyalists of Dragonstone Castle to surreptitiously substitute the most convincing of the 8 - 11 year old boys of Dragonstone village for the ultimate approval of the Queen Mother Rhaella Targaryen to be trained with expediency as Dragonstone royal decoy!?! Why even introduce the concept of royal decoy for Princess Myrcella and her alone?!? If anyone was a viable candidate to get appointed one I submit that it was the newly crowned boy 👑 Viserys III after the slaughter of the Targaryen royal babies during the sack of King's Landing!!
@@somewhat_annoyed_llama On your other point about the aSoI&F Wikia of Prince Maegor Brightflame Targaryen . . . I do believe that is the OFFICIAL illustration as per Elio & Linda of the characters in the books. That would be my understanding of the source materials and it is the site that Elio and Linda make reference of repeatedly so we should hope that the illustrations are effectively accurate. Case in point I made reference of the illustration on there of Baby Prince Aegon VI and how Rhaegar Targaryen's Valyrian blood traits were passed down to his son therefore so too may Prince Maegor Brightflame Targaryen have passed down his own Valyrian blood traits to his potential son Gerold Dayne as exception to the general rule that daughters take after their dads.
@@somewhat_annoyed_llama if he was a ward of Aegon and living in the red keep then he must have been in summerhall that day to witness the birth of the dragons that Aegon promised would happened? So he's most likely one of the dead Targ
I really like the Marwyn idea. It would give us another interesting parallel between Jon and Dany, both being guided by an older Targaryen maester. In one case the pupil is a hidden Targ, in the other the teacher is. Plus Marwyn's associates (sex workers, sailors, accolytes and commoners) somewhat remind us of his uncles and fathers associates (Daeron's whoring, Aerion's exile across the narrow sea, Aemon at the citadel and the quill and tankard, Egg's adventures with Dunc and the small folk).
Once again, a quality concept with just the right amount of tinfoil!
He's Dany's horse obviously
The horse is a silver, Targaryens have silver hair. Confirmed
Maegor Brightflame, the Shrouded Lord
🤯
Please do a collaboration ASAP@somewhatannoyedllama
Christ
I really need you guys to stop using my tinfoil as one-liners
It’s more than likely Maegor died at summerhall
Maegor was too smart for that obviously
Maegor Brightflame the rightful heir to Iron Throne. Had King Maekar lived longer I’m sure he’d name him his heir and Prince of Dragonstone
Now hear me out: Craster.
I wonder if the idea of Maegor predates the Blackfyre plots and Young Griff? We get hints that something is brewing, but Young Griff is not introduced until much much later. Was the rival claimant supposed to be a Brightflame descendant instead of a secret Blackfyre (supposedly)? Maybe that's why he exists, but is part of the 'untraceable' Targaryens club. I think it's also possible he was carried away to Essos by his mother, and since no trouble came from it, he was left alone. He was clearly not considered a threat since the possibility is not mentioned once around Blackfyre Rebellions or the War of Nine Penny Kings. He could have died as a baby, but wouldn't that be mentioned in the histories? "Prince Aegon was voted King, and baby Meagor died shortly after."
Yeah, I think Maegor is first mentioned (not by name) in Clash which came out around the same time as the Hedge Knight I believe, whereas the Blackfyres don't get mentioned til Storm - so it makes sense that the Brightflames were the original dissident Targ house, and Maegor being a loose end is a result of grrm switching it to the Blackfyres (which would likely make this video redundant but so it goes)
@@somewhat_annoyed_llama No theory video is redundant when there's no new material coming in the fandom 😅
I believe that GRRM always had the idea for a Targaryen cadet house, but changed it from Brightflame to Blackfyre because, well, who in their right mind would support an asshole like Aerion?
oh Marwyn the Maege? Maegor....
Could Maegor Brightflame possibly be a horse?
maegor is allama
Gah no don't reveal my secret identity
I thought you meant Alleras so it would really be Rogaem
What if aegon sent maegor to be raised at Starfall aegon's mother and maegor's grandmother was a dayne. Maegor would be with family and in the care of one of the only houses that would be a strong aegon supporter
Would be a good place to hide his Valyrian features if he had them among the Valyrian-looking Daynes, perhaps they could pass him off as some obscure member of a branch of House Dayne? Perhaps he settles down, has kids, they have kids... Darkstar Brightflame?!
@@somewhat_annoyed_llamalet’s goooo new dark star theory
@somewhatannoyedllama it makes no sense, if aegon made maegor disappeared, there would be tons of rumors of him murdering the kid
@@Lumistrocity really don’t know enough about the era to know, maybe he married a dayne lady since dorne has different succession laws
Maegor could also be the tattered prince
I like to think that Maegor is Mance, Marwyn and the High Sparrow at the same time and just uses Qyburns Jetpack to travel around the continent.
I believe Grrm will confirm this, by having three chapters by Cersei, Theon and Sam that take place at the same time, in which Marwyn/Mance/Howland Reed act weirdly and have to leave every two seconds and then continue the conversation like nothing happened.
Truly brilliant writing!
The sigil shown at 0:53 is Aegon II’s personal sigil. Aerion Brightflame’s sigil was the red three headed dragon on black with a red head, orange head, and yellow head.
Whoops
I think Marwyn is the only one that makes any sense. It would be pretty cool too, but I think it's more likely, as others have suggested, that originally George wanted to make young Griff (and most likely Varys) a Brightflame, and Maegor is just a surviving seed planted for that possible storyline. But then at some point while writing Dunk & Egg he came up with the Blackfyres & went with them instead
Leaving poor baby Maegor as nothing more than an interesting piece of trivia for us freaks to theorycraft with until (if) 'Winds' ever comes out 😅
I had to pause though when the prospect of Varys being a fully grown Prince Maegor Brightflame Targaryen was raised if I am being honest lol. GRRM is very careful to never describe his eye color and we have no idea of his hair color either as he is completely shaved. People do age differently and substantially so . . . Lord Varys could be how old?!? Prince Aerion Brightflame was banished to Lys after the Tournament at Ashford and that is where Lord Varys calls home so . . . I can't get past the possibility of Varys being the fully grown Maegor Brightflame Targaryen.
@@cliffordrose4335 ya, I do think this was George's initial intent. But then he came up with the Blackfyres & decided to go that route. Either would be cool, but whatever the case, I definitely think Varys is some type of Targaryen. It just makes too much sense
But if it's Marwyn that's an adult Maegor, it would actually help to make sense of that cryptic line from Moqorro- "Dragons old and young, true and false, bright and dark. And you. A small man with a big shadow, snarling in the midst of it all."
Old- Aemon
Young- Jon
True- Dany
False- fAegon
Bright- Marwyn/Maegor
Dark- Varys?
(If Varys is a Brightflame, not sure who would be dark, then)
Just thinking out loud but if this is the set up, then you'd have 3 young Targaryens (3 heads of the dragon?!) each with an elder Targ to mentor them. And Tyrion has interacted with all of them to some degree, except for Marwyn. At least not yet
I was thinking this theory was a long shot at best, because I wasn't sure it made much sense thematically or brought much to the table narratively, but now idk... 🤔
@@jsull81 I think I would be okay with Marwin the Mage being the fully grown Prince Maegor Brightflame Targaryen. There are just too many places he could possibly be if alive because he is just too attenuated in time & space from when we lost track of him during the coronation of 👑 Aegon V.
The most streamlined development for the baby Prince Maegor Brightflame is the formation of the cadet branch of House Dayne and the Targaryen financed construction of High Hermitage for the grandson of Lady Dyanna and Prince Maekar. The word "hermitage" translates to "the disinherited" and doesn't "High Hermitage" sound like a remote, really recluse residence for royalty in the Red Mountains of Dorne If you really REALLY think 🤔 on it?!? That is where the Egg we came to know in the aSoI&F novellas would have sent his mother's grandson so he could live a great life of considerable comfort and well outside the snake's nest that was King's Landing where he could likely get corrupted as Daemon Blackfyre was by bitter and disgruntled opportunists.
This would make him the biological father in his early 40's or late 30's of the newborn Gerold Dayne so there's value in that revelation too. Princess Arianne's offspring with him "would be as beautiful as the Dragonlords of Old Valyria" she predicted and her father Prince Doran Martell said he was "the most dangerous man in Dorne" curiously enough. What say you?!? This fills in the blanks about his mysterious family tree which has absolutely no one identified on it and no nexus with House Dayne whatsoever.
Maegor the Kind
The answer is likely boring and that is Maegor just grew up always exiled and just had a family. Valyrian looks are still in southern Essos so a baby growing up and just not caring about the throne and living a normal life is possible.
And this still sets up Aegon to possibly be Maegor's grandson.
Aegon's identities by liklihood go as follows:
1. Legitimate
2. A Brightflame (A cadet branch, but still legitimate, just not the son of Rhaegar)
3. A Blackfyre
4. A random peasant
Honestly, the first two are easily the most entertaining possibilities. I know fans have latched onto the (f)Aegon theory to the point of delusion, but Aegon being legitimate or a Brightflame make the actual succession between him and Dany more interesting.
I really like the idea of Marwyn being Maegor, but given he's a Brightflame, you'd think he'd support Young Griff, but it's Dany that he rushes to see. It could be that he loves dragons, like you said, or he could be a spy or determined to undermine her. If Marwyn is Maegor, what do you think his intentions could be?
Hmm, hard to say for sure. I think the Brightflames are closer to the main Targ branch than they are to the Blackfyres, as they're trueborn where the Blackfyres are bastards. Apart from that, I reckon it's cos Dany has dragons. Marwyn's love of dragons doesn't really need an explanation, but being Maegor, son of Aerion, who was unhealthily obsessed with them, would provide one possible reason why he drops everything to go and help Dany - he's got that slightly insane Targaryen obsession with the dragons that so many of them have after the dragons die
Wow, we’ve really had too much free time between books. And yet I’m still somehow taking this seriously.
I think a good candidate is tatters, the tattered prince I think he’s called, he could’ve been left behind in essos when aerion came back to Westeros for the blackfyre rebellion, they say he was a prince of Pentos, but maybe he was just a prince IN pentos, and maybe he was chosen to be the sacrificial prince of pentos bc his father died in Westeros
Wasn’t there an old ranger at the night’s watch called Squire Dalbridge, so called because he once squired for an unknown king. Could it be possible that Maegor was kept around at court until a squiring age, until Aegon decided he was too dangerous to be there and so entrusted his nephew with his brother Aemon and make him join the black?
Could be! I like the idea that there are some extremely minor background characters that have big secrets that we will never actually know but grrm does know. Makes the world feel bigger
A lot of people think George’s allusions to a character he regrets killing are about Aemond and that Dany needs another Targaryen for what George has planned. I wonder if he could use Maegor Brightflame as a stand-in for poor Aemond
George RR is clearly a genius but I gotta wonder what the general audiences reaction is gonna be when everyone at Castle Black is devastated that they cant revive Jon Snow because they don't have a kings blood they need for the ritual after he sent every possible source away but then melisandre points at Old Henly ...
My money is on Maegor Bright Flame having been a loyal Aegon V guy and then died at Summerhall weather henleft any issue is up in the air but I would guess that he is very much dead, he probably squired for one of the Kingsgaurd and met his end with most of his family.
Targaryens sometimes offered heirs to the faith as tokens of good will to help improve relations. Especially Jaehaerys who sent one of his daughters, Maegelle to join the faith as a way of further ensuring good will with the faith. And by all accounts, she became a very good septa.
Incredible video! Please keep making theories, your topics are things that feel new, and you explain them well. Also I love the stupid little joke dialogues you put next to the characters. Top stuff all around
Thanks! Very kind of you to say :)
Maegor brightflame is actually the Tattered Prince
Haha, Marwyn the Maegor was a good pun.
Maegor Brightflame, King Beyond the Wall
maybe young griff is a mix of blackfyre and brightflame?
Illyrio dyes his hair and had a son with Sarah Blackfyre
Here is a sub from a small african boy, Keep them videos coming man👍🏻
I like to think Maegor and Vaella, the other young claimant at the Great Council of 233 probably lived comfortable and happy lives as a prince and princess. I assume if Martin was planning to do something remarkable with Maegor, it would have already been mentioned.
Hopefully we found out more about them in Fire and Blood Volume 2; I bet they either get involved in some minor rebellion/conspiracy and get killed/punished, died young in a tragedy or lived simple lives and died with their possible families at the Tragedy of Summerhall. I'm assuming Maegor probably didn't have any viable female descendants because if he did I'm sure Rhaegar would have married his daughter/granddaughter. I assume its the same way for Vaella.
most likely died at Summerhall with the rest of them
Maybe he died at Summerhall, like many other Targaryens?
It’s not fun or particularly interesting, but a logical assumption to make for someone that should by all means be around, yet hasn’t been mentioned since he was a baby. If Aegon V simply left the kid alone, since he is still family, then perhaps he would’ve been a guest and yet another casualty of that tragedy.
My theory: he’s been hiding out on Dragonstone where his hair would go unnoticed. He’s going to return in the last chapter of ADOS and say just like Samwise Gamgee “Well, I’m back.”
There’s the FAegon Brightfyre theory there. Is clear that at the begining of ASOIAF Martin had not yet thought of the Blackfyre rebellions, but he of course did about the Mummer’s Dragon Plot or something similar (Just look at Illyrio and Varys conversation), and the character of Aerion Brightflame came not much later in the tales of Dunk and Egg. At the begining of the story he was probably going in that direction, but later created the Blackfyre plot so they can have a broather net of connections and influence that predates all that. With that said, is weird for George to present Maegor in the World of Ice and Fire and not give anymore details, so it is possible that plots are interconected. After the defeat of Maelys in the Fifth Blackfyre Rebellion the male line got probably already extinct, and probably there’s another generation before arriving to Serra (Illyrio’s wife and alleged mother of Young Griff), so it is possible that Maegor Brightflame married a Blackfyre to cement Both causes, it makes in fact perfect sense, as this would mantain the claim to the Iron Throne for the Blackfyres and also the Valyrian incest tradition.
He probably just died in infancy, like about have of the Targaryens seem to. Boring, but Occam's razor. GRRM is unlikely to include such a minor character in the main series when he hasn't even been mentioned in it yet, and we have enough potential secret Targs around.
Maegor could be Marwyn, Maegor could be in exile in Essos as a nobody, Maegor could be the High Sparrow, Maegor could be Darkstar's great-grandaddy, Maegor could be Ser Pounce and Tyrek Lannister, a scary skinchanging Targaryen...but at the end of the day, the most likely possibility is he either died young from some random minute thing (a-la the high child mortality of the setting, or a disease) or more likely went up in flames with the majority of the Targaryens in Summerhall...maybe that's what Aerion's dream about waking dragons was about: he saw his son's death, his son looked very much like him, and then saw Daenerys' dragons being born on Khal Drogo's pyre.
I like Marwyn theory, but i think Tattered Prince fits better, i'm surprised you didn't mentioned him.
Yeah missed a trick on that one
Great video
I think GRRM has been clearly having fun with secret identities it would be great if there was one we the audience were never in on like with. Maegor Brightflame, especially because he’d have a better claim than Aegon, Daenerys, or Jon. Imagine if he is the high sparrow or under the faith’s protection. It would give even more reason to why they want to prove Tommen to be a bastard-incest abomination. It would bring more conflict to the crownlands. The Mance theory is fun too.
All Hail MAEGOR ‚The Misjudged‘ true king of the Iron Throne !
Kept hanging with the court, did nothing of note and died in Summerhall?
In gonna say he was sent east to live out his days as a regular person depending on his age, possibly unaware of his lineage and if you do the math he would be too old to be varys however he would be old enough to be his father which could be why the sorcerer took varys
marwyn could be an andalised form of maegor too... there are some indications that the two languages are related
No more than I can.... Thats kinda damning. Hadn't thought about that.
Would be cool if there was a loyal targ cadet branch called the Brightflames
When you mentioned the age range and he might have been sent to the wall, my first thought was Craster. He was supposedly a the son of a NW man and a wildling woman, but if he were brought to the wall as an infant, he might still need a wet nurse (possibly a wildling), and would have regarded that woman as his mother. If he had prophetic dreams, it would make a little more sense why he was sacrificing sons to hold back the long night.
Maegor did nothing wrong;
*NO, NOT THAT ONE!*
Tattered Prince fits age/location/description.
Maegor Brightflame, the Elden Lord
He is clearly Strong Belwas
Cool theories but i think that Maegor was obsessed with dragons as his father was and since its not unreasonable to think that sheepstealer could be still alive somwhere in the wilderness of the Vale of Arryn he went out to search out the truth of the last of the dragons
Or so says the fanfic i made in my head for F&B pt2
Haha I'd read that
I love the Marwyn idea! ❤
3:11 wtf those are the exact bags i use at work
Faegon is his descendant.
I'm convinced that Meagor is Craster.
Finally, another great ASoIaF obscure topics channel. Hope you grow bro, your content is great!
Thanks!
Summerhall incident, there
Brightflame Rebellion
In The World of Ice and Fire at the start of the text to Aerys' reign there is a hint many miss. The text says only a pair (!) of lonely targaryen branches are still existing and thats why succesion of targaryens is in danger. One of them means the Aerys-Rhaella-little Rhaegar branch but the other one is not explained. Narrative wise it doesn't make sense for that one to be a Duncan-branch as that one is out of succession it can only be Maegor with perhaps a wife and a single child by then. That means in 262, Maegor is still alive and survived infancy as well as Summerhall...
But still nobody mentions or considers him as possible heir at the downfall of targaryens neither does he make a move. It would be strange if he sits in some lords keep at the start of RR, there must be some good explanation what become of him
I spent like 5 hours 2 weeks ago trying to find out exactly this, I just assume he died at Summerhall
Could be - it would be nice if Aegon actually kept Maegor around (probably against the advice of his more politically savvy mates) and raised him alongside his own kids, and they got along really well and there was no question of rebellions or anything like that. And then they all die in a fire cos no-one is allowed to be happy in these books
Interesting video idea 😆
HIGH SPARROW MAEGOR
Is he Varys?
This is a fantastic video idea!!!!!! I haven't ever heard a word from maegor the baby, this is great
I have another missing person, who might need some tinfoil investigating: Aegon Bloodborne Frey, listed as an outlaw in the appendix but never mentioned in the story
@@samuelschonenberger haha that's another level of obscure!
i think the common fan consensus is that he just died at summerhall lol
We never actually hear any indication of Dolorous Edd's age in the books...
But speaking seriously, I'm sure GRRM would say he just died young. The Blackfyres replaces the Brightflames as the secret-subversive Targaryens in GRRM's mind between THK and TSS
If Maegor is Marwyn and has access to Glass Candles, I propose a new theory: Omni-Maegor.
Not saying I believe it, but Maegor Brightflame being the high sparrow and revitalizing the old religious militant order his namesake destroyed is such delicious Irony
New theory: Aegon the Unlikely and Bloodraven knew about Aegons Prophecy (which is the real reason Bloodraven went to the Wall), so they recruited Aemon and baby Maegor as well in the North to discover a way to fend off the end of all life. Maegor as Mance would be perfect because all those Wildlings would be a massive army for the White Walkers.
Its your video guy but the fact that I have paused it 45 times, being only halfway through, to try and read the references has left me somewhat annoyed and a little more than stressed.
-The fact that by all accounts Maegor IS the rightful heir to the Iron Throne makes every theory about him much more funny
First six seconds, bro includes both credit to an artist and even a Mr Gum reference. what a boon
The parallels between Mr Gum and Game of Thrones are endless.
Also where's my new outro music? I'll steal some more if you're not careful
@@somewhat_annoyed_llama I've got exams to do hermano
@@cyberscript8920 still found the time to go clubbing with Yogscast Martyn
With a production quality like this you should have more subscribers, also maegor brightflame is very obviously quaithe
this is actually a good vid.
I see what mess you have in your playlist but his vid is very fun and good.
Hope you do more such vids with obscure characters, especially ones cut from the shows.
Theory crew is kinda lacking atm and we mostly have click baiters in top search results.
It’d be really funny if Varys ended up being Maegor brightflame
I'm pretty sure the pink eyes bit is about his drinking effecting the whites of his eyes not his pupils
I wouldn't mind if Brightflames were just a minor house in Lyseni territory with Varys being a bastard or something
my (stupid) (pet) theory is that he is the former lord of High Hermitage before Darkstar (aka Darkstars father)
Maegor hid the dragonglass and the Horn of Winter for Jon to find it
Very well laid out, will definitely be watching more of your vids
Probably just died at Summerhall
Interesting video
Earned my sub
i really enjoyed this video and hope to see more like it
This channel is gonna blow up
Have you ever considered that 👑 Aegon V may have sent Prince Maegor Brightflame to live on with his noble kin of House Dayne at Castle Starfall 🏯?!? There he could have a great life without the turmoil and tornent that befell Daemon Blackfyre who was raised at court in the Red Keep where disgruntled lords and knights whispered manipulations in his young trusting ears. He could be raised as a noble of House Dayne without any indication of his true identity as the heir and grandson of King Maekar Targaryen and Lady Dyanna Dayne - Targaryen.
Of all the options you proposed I submit that placing the baby Prince Maegor into a security protocol as a Dayne via his grandmother's House would the most plausible and character consistent decision that King Aegon V could have made for the guardianship and well-being of his royal Targaryen nephew.
Perhaps a remote royal residence in the Red Mountains of Dorne could be financed through the Targaryen royal treasury . . . High Hermitage!?! Did you know that the word "hermitage" translates to the disinherited?!? Sounds like a feasible theory to me and it fills out the mysterious background of the Darkstar ~ Ser Gerold Dayne if he was in fact the biological son of a 40 something or 30 something Maegor Brightflame born in 270 - 274 AC right!?! What say you??
Haha, a couple of people have said the same - I don't see why not, and it would be fun for Darkstar to be the rightful king of Westeros!
@@somewhat_annoyed_llama Thank you so very much for the swift reply ☺️. I have been an ardent proponent of the (f)Viserys theory since last decade as I learned about (f)Aegon and it sparked my curiosity that GRRM might have a personal fetish for the literary trope of false identity provided that there are well over 17 them spread throughout the aSoI&F books.
Blue hair dye to disguise an alleged false identity Targaryen in Young Griff right?!? Why couldn't that midnight black streak of hair in the Silvery-White head of Ser Gerold Dayne wash out too as hair dye?!? This was my thinking 🤔 because everything about him is too damn curious and mysterious via his background. Now if the midnight black streak is real as he inherited it from his biological father Prince Maegor Brightflame however . . . then that is a plausible secondary theory for him. It is actually easier to get him from the baby son of Prince Aerion Brightflame to Ser Gerold Dayne than to get the 8.5 year old boy king 🤴 Viserys III so crowned by her Grace 👑 Rhaella Targaryen after the sack of King's Landing to the fully grown up Ser Gerold Dayne as I have expounded which was facilitated by Prince Doran Martell as his constructive custodian and Lady Ashara Dayne who led the reception party from Castle Starfall 🏯 that awaited the Dragonstone ship led by Ser Willem Darry. This secondary theory is more streamlined lol.
@@cliffordrose4335 interesting, so is the fake Viserys theory that Darkstar is the real Viserys and Viserys is someone else? On the black hair, the person who did the art for Maegor gave him that streak of black hair, though I don't know whether that is based on a anything. Still, food for thought
@@somewhat_annoyed_llama Yes the (f)Viserys theory is explored in my second reply to you. I was at first quizzical 🤨 about all the substitutes, frauds, imposters, bastard deceptions and baby swaps spread voluntarily and knowingly throughout the aSoI&F books series but then Princess Myrcella in FEAST is assigned a royal decoy in her cousin Rosamund for her security protocol to Dorne as well as a sworn sword 🗡️ in Ser Aerys Oakhart of the Kingsguard. I thought 🤔 why would the Targaryen loyalists of Dragonstone Castle 🏰 think less of the TRUE GENUINE heir to House Targaryen in Prince 🤴 Viserys III than the Lannister loyalists of the Red Keep would for a false royal princess?!? Would an uncle do more for his niece and nephew than a mother would do for her last living child!?!
Did you notice that the 👑 Viserys III we met in GAME could not speak a word of High Valyrian to his "sister" while they were in mixed company traveling with the Khallasaar? That he had a severely flawed grasp of the sociopolitical standings of the Great and Lesser Houses of Westeros in DAENERYS chapter I and that the source of all Daenerys misinformation was from him?? Did you notice that he didn't know how to convincingly wield a sword 🗡️ despite years of supposedly being raised and trained by the Targaryen Master-at-arms ~ Ser Willem Darry?!?
I submit that with over half a year of gestation sanctuary for 👑 Rhaella Targaryen on Dragonstone Castle 🏰 and easy, discrete access to the Dragonseed boys that populated Dragonstone village with Purple eyes and Platinum hair and yes perhaps some with the full trifecta of Valyrian blood traits so highlighted by ArchMaester Gyldayn in "Fire and Blood" . . . an aquiline nose. How implausible would it be for the Targaryen loyalists of Dragonstone Castle to surreptitiously substitute the most convincing of the 8 - 11 year old boys of Dragonstone village for the ultimate approval of the Queen Mother Rhaella Targaryen to be trained with expediency as Dragonstone royal decoy!?! Why even introduce the concept of royal decoy for Princess Myrcella and her alone?!? If anyone was a viable candidate to get appointed one I submit that it was the newly crowned boy 👑 Viserys III after the slaughter of the Targaryen royal babies during the sack of King's Landing!!
@@somewhat_annoyed_llama On your other point about the aSoI&F Wikia of Prince Maegor Brightflame Targaryen . . . I do believe that is the OFFICIAL illustration as per Elio & Linda of the characters in the books. That would be my understanding of the source materials and it is the site that Elio and Linda make reference of repeatedly so we should hope that the illustrations are effectively accurate. Case in point I made reference of the illustration on there of Baby Prince Aegon VI and how Rhaegar Targaryen's Valyrian blood traits were passed down to his son therefore so too may Prince Maegor Brightflame Targaryen have passed down his own Valyrian blood traits to his potential son Gerold Dayne as exception to the general rule that daughters take after their dads.
Algormancy!
Sane? 💀
why is leroy sane there lol
Because if Maegor didn't grow up to be insane, he'd grow up to be... sane
Do we know how old he would have been around summer hall? God I wish we knew more about the post aegon iii era
Looked it up, Summerhall was in 259 so Maegor would have been 27, give or take.
So he's dead@@somewhat_annoyed_llama
@@mrlaw2729 ...or is he?
@@somewhat_annoyed_llama if he was a ward of Aegon and living in the red keep then he must have been in summerhall that day to witness the birth of the dragons that Aegon promised would happened? So he's most likely one of the dead Targ
@@mrlaw2729 yeah that is much more likely than him secretly being Marwyn to be fair
A video I did not think I needed but now that I have watched it I am enlightened thank you
Tattered Prince