Clearing up a few things I worded poorly in the video: - Yes, Leif Erikson and Norse colonists discovered the Americas before Columbus and established settlements; my point was the exact timeframe (i.e. 500 years before Columbus) is, to my knowledge, disputed a little bit. So I didn't want to say Leif found North America 500 years before Columbus with certainty. - Human sacrifice is just a small component of the rich Aztec / mesoamerican cultures; the reason I singled out their sacrificial methods was to point out one way this fabled land in the Sunset Sea might not be a paradise, like some (i.e. Gylbert Farwynd) believe. I think it's relevant since the Aztecs were a part of the "New World," and this fabled land would be like Westeros's "New World." I don't want to boil down the entire Aztec culture to human sacrifice. - I didn't go into the Deep Ones in this video, as I'm trying to keep my runtimes shorter, but another theory I really enjoy is that the Deep Ones are real, they're responsible for the Oily Black Stone and the Seastone Chair, and perhaps they have an underwater kingdom (i.e. the submerged city of Atlantis) in the Sunset Sea; the fabled land is actually a water city, not a land city. Pretty cool option as well.
In 1487 the Aztecs sacrificed between 10000 and 80400 people in a 4 day period. I know, it's a rich and beautiful civilization with great food, wondrous cultural traditions, and friendly people, but are you sure human sacrifice is a *small* component of that culture? I mean, the Boltons don't have a 112 feet in length and 40 feet wide skull rack like archeologists found near Templo Mayor and human sacrifice is quite an important component of their cultural traditions. Anyway, great video as always
@@magicznyignacy380 Yeah well people got mad at me for only mentioning the human sacrifice, then people got mad at me for downplaying the human sacrifice. So idk man... I'm not a historian, but I did do research, and yeah seems like human sacrifice was kind of a big deal over there
@@CrusaderChris Hah, that's what you get for caring what nobodies on the internet think. People who got mad because you didn't extensively describe their perception of the Aztecs in a 15 minute asoiaf video probably wouldn't care about the corrections anyway and just... add your head to the pile.
7:06 A really overlooked sneaky detail is right here. “Wild pigs” implies that other humans have been there before. Pigs don’t naturally appear on islands. Especially not remote ones. When Spanish explorers were navigating the Americas and found an island, they would release breeding pairs of pigs and leave. On their sail back months or years later, the island would be full of pigs when they returned. A great food source for sailors weary from travel but the pigs had no natural predators and usually decimated the islands ecosystems. It’s an incredible detail that almost confirms that Elissa Farman isn’t the first to get to the islands.
Doesnt really make sense since its not specified what kind of pigs these are. And since we dont know what kind of pigs these animals are, we cant say that they were domesticated pig that were released there, and could be just native hogs or similar species. Still a nice theory that kinda makes sense if we consider Nymeria`s travel, perhaps few ships went further west or something.
A Lighthouse would be very useful for whoever lived and fished on lonely islands weeks away from land. Seal skin and Seal leather are very valuable products afterall.
Yeah but they still have to said for EIGHT FRIGGING DAYS just to get to Iron Island proper which isnt exactly Volantis when it comes to international trade. Idk who they're gonna sell that sealskin to
@burtan2000 Seal Skins used to be hunted for in the Arctic regions in the real world. From there, the skins would shipped all over the world in voyages lasting weeks. Properly salted seal skin will last a good long time, in a ships cargo hold. In the Iron Islands, the Sailors will have need for, and knowledge on how to develop seal leather products. The Iron Islands buy the seal furs and make their own gear, and some of them also sell the leather further on. A good chunk of the Iron Islanders are traders, not pirates.
@@burtan2000 Not to mention how do they keep the fire burning? It doesn't look like there is much in the way of wood or any other burnable materials there. You would need regular supply runs just to keep the fire burning.
We know there was a huge flood in the ancient past after the Hammer of the Waters. I think Lonely Light was probably the main lighthouse for the westcoast of westeros pre-flood.
One great theory I heard in the disputed lands channel was that oily black stone comes from weirwoods that died and petrified. 1) an archimaster told Sam in the citadel that weirwoods don't die, they become stone 2) the shade of the evening is an oily liquid that comes from an paralel tree to the weirwood that is said to drink the light 3) the land south of ashai has lots of black trees. If that is true than ashai could have been built with such tree, as well as lonely light form the land just west of westeros.
Makes sense that Elysa failed, she perhaps was too South, if she was even bellow the Summer Isles level, as far as it's described as a land with no winter, it should be arround the Neck or bellow, arround, perhaps at the same altitude to Essos, Lonely Light may be the furthest north this hypothetical land reaches.
sothryos extends south so far a dragon flew south for 3 yrs and couldnt find the end, this implies everything in the known world is still quite a bit above the hemisphere, in fact the summer isles are probably around mexico level or sonething, like cuba perhaps, this means there is a heck ton of land south to hit, more likely the western land isnt one connected landmass like the americas and thus she just got unlucky and passed right through a couple continents
@@XiaoYueMaothat's what I assume. If lady Farman made it to Essos going westward that means there's no giant landmass, Essos goes further around the world or she sailed through & missed continent sized islands.
@@jackj9816 It's George's way of having a fun tale to spawn fan theories. He confirmed the world was round in an interview. He didn't need to put it in a book. The fact they build tall lighthouses already proves Planetos is round as well. A tall lighthouse is completely pointless if you live on a flat world, and you would never build one. You'd build them all at ground level and save the resources. Lighthouses are solely built to be tall so you can see it over the horizon. That's not a factor on a flat world, since there's no horizon that stuff will dip below. Lighthouses prove the world is round, not some probably untrue sailor story that's basically a small reference to Odysseus' journey (all of George's Eastern lore is just referential and made to pay homage to writers he loves) and a way to feed fan theories and make the world feel more alive.
when I saw the map of the lonely light to the west of the Iron Islands, i immediately thought of st kilda, to the west of the hebrides in Scotland. They are the last islands in Scotland/British isles before you reach the Americas.
When I was a small summer child to this story I loved the idea and thought it was George foreshadowing the others were going to really be an apocalyptic threat and almost wipe out all of Westeros because of all the in fighting. The dream of spring would be the banners of house stark coming over the horizon to “save the day” and help what remained of our hero’s fight and push back the others. But after the show I realized that was a pipe dream lol. I also thought the others would attack from every shore at once. The dead would come marching out of the water forcing everyone to the center of Westeros aka Harrenhall for one last battle which they would subversively lose
I personally follow the Great Empire of the Dawn dragon riders theory to explain the presence of black stone and oily black stone, with all the places it can be found having been outposts/colonies that cover the sea south of Essos and western Westeros (there are none north of Essos or east of Westeros due to the Arm of Dorne). With Ashi being the empires capital. So im not sure black stone came from across the Sunset Sea. As for an Americas is Planetos, Im not sure, its possible, and would fit with how the existing continents mirror our own. But I definately think Elissa went around the world and landed in Ashi. But the Farwynds deffo know more then they are letting on, I agree they are probably skinchanges (or atleast their head is) and they know more about the Sunset Sea then anyone.
@@durrangodsgrief6503 I was the same, but I kind of roped Yeen in as having been one of there colonies that tied them to Westeros. But given that we dont know whats easter of the Shadow Lands and how Elissa got there, I deffo think theybcould have also reached Westeros via the Sunset Sea
when the gylbert talks about the lands west it sounds like a cheeky nod to the undying lands in lotr but the lands themselves did not make it undying it was its inhabitants something men in that world did not understand.
I really like this theory, I can see the Aztec-esque civilization being the origin of Oily Black Stone, and possibly on the same landmass as Stygai and the Shadowlands.
The idea that there could be other Stark’s to this unknown land is brought further home by Arya’s desire to sail west. How cool would it be for her to follow in the footsteps of her ancestors, sail west, and find distant relatives living there.
As a member of the Cult of Starry Wisdom and a subscriber to David Lightbringer, I like to think that oily black stone is made of meteorites and the various structures built out of it were made by the great empire of the dawn. Also, warging into a whale would be epic. Also again, we need to have a Patchface spinoff to see if the Deep Ones are real
I stumbled across your lore channel by accident. Im so glad I did, because I love your presentation style. I enjoy all the theroy-crafting of ASOIAF from different channels, as no one really can pin it down, except maybe George, and maybe not even him. GoT yourself another subscriber.
The oily black stone is one of many Lovecraft references in Ice and Fire. The Deep Ones are an exact namedrop from Shadow Over Innsmouth, making the Drowned God Cthulu. Yi Ti, Leng, Carcosa, Sarnath, and Ib are all direct name drops as well. N'ghai; the strange tribesmen north of Yi Ti, is a slight alteration of N'kai; the kingdom of Tsathogguah, the Toad God. The Great Other is none other than Ithaqua the Windwalker. The Black Goat of Qohor is The Black Goat Shub Niggurath, and I think the Old Gods of the Children of the Forest are also Shub Niggurath and her many children, for she is known as the All Mother and Lord of Forests. The Cult of Starry Wisdom is another direct namedrop, meaning Nyarlathotep exists in Planetos, and I would also parralel him to the Many Faced God, as he is a shapeshifter and bears the title The Faceless God. I may even go so far as saying that Euron Crowseye is the high priest of Starry Wisdom and has become an avatar of the Crawling Chaos. R'hllor is Cthugha the Living Flame, a star made of burning flesh 《Stannis' fiery heart》. The Red Comet even has a parallel, Ghroth the Harbinger, who travels space looking to destroy planets, awakening ancient magics with his psychic siren song. Following this rubric, the only benevolent deities are the Seven. They are clear parrallels to the Greek, Roman, and Germanic pantheons, which are the forms taken by the Elder Gods, the only pro-human entities in the Mythos, and also the least immediately powerful due to their lack of influence over the material realm.
If u walk from Canada north u don't just pop up in the south pole 😂 you would still have to travel half a globe to there and the north pole doesn't stretch all the way to the south pole
With how GRRM links sources of magic to either coming from the same source (ie, there are multiple groups of the Children of the Forest throughout the world) or opposing forces (Rhollor and the Great Other). Thus I think 'oily black stone' is fused dragonstone that has come corrupted or stained by evil. This parallels the dark mystery of Asshai, which is a massive city bigger Kingslanding, Volantese, Old Town, and Qaarth combined. Yet it is terribly cursed after the Blackstone Emperor started worshipping necromancy and caused the First Long Night. Thus I think oily blackstone is linked to evil necromancy and worship of the Great Other (who takes many forms such as the Black Goat, the Drowned god), and is corrupted, like the sea stone chair. The Iron Islands followed the Old Gods until the followers of Great Other (drowned god) chopped down the massive weirwood grove on Old Wyk.
You now, 8 days from Euron is a good policy at this point in time. Getting northern Skyrim vibes from this one...always a beautiful point in a playthrough getting to the ice platforms and horker seals
Skinchanging IS an inherited ability! It just doesn’t always manifest and requires a bond with an animal to even discover. It’s also a dormant trait that skips generations but is very much inherited through bloodlines.
Since the three small islands are under the latitude of Summer Isles and Asshai, Ulthos, and saffron strait are near that latitude, could it be possible that there is no new continent beyond the sunset sea? as the sunchaser was told that it ended up in asshai port, probably after crossing the saffron strait or maybe circumnavigating southern shore of Ulthos.
In Wheel of time you also have Prince who was sent across the Western Ocean with a fleet and vanished. 1000 years later his descendants return - and it's nothing but trouble for the old homeland. As George started his saga a few years past WoT, I think he will be careful to avoid certain tropes.
I think given GRRM's living in the southeast and respect for history and southwest culture, there's almost certainly ideas in his head on a civilization such as that. Regardless, the wonder is the point of it and idk if he'll ever really finish it. If it ever does become finished, I think he'd want this successor to do it.
I find the idea interesting, that Brandon did start a whole "westerosesque" civilization over at the proposed new land. That would be kind of similar on how the children of Artur Paendrag Tanreall in the wheel of time discovered seanchan and started whole ass kingdome over there. It would even be funnier if in the next book out of nowhere the desendants of brandon came sailing back to westeros, taking out the ironborn and trying to conquer back their lost land to wich they have the right to by blood.
@@CrusaderChrisHe discovered America is what he did! He was a great Italian explorer! And in this house, Christopher Columbus is a hero - end of story! 😡🍝
I saw the fabled land west of Westeros was a mixture of the Americas and Atlantis, but who knows the truth until George gets around to giving us more information?
Wasn't implied it just wraps around to essos later on though? Like where the one evil greyjoy is moving around with his fleet so fast no one can believe it and the other characters don't know how he's doing it? I thought it was pretty solidly implied he was just sailing around the world and back.
In universe an interesting puzzle, how many of the not-returning sailors perished on sea and how many, if any, reached and remained on that hypothetical land beyond the sunset sea?
SPOILER for the wheel of time books. In the wheel of time books there is a king who builds a great fleet led by his son in order to explore an unknown sea, his fleet never comes back so everyone thinks it was lost, but after a thousand years during the main series they come back and find out that they did find land and that they conquered it and its people, and now they want to conquer their ancestor home.
Bonkers theory, but it indulges my personal favorite althistory scenario, where Viking settlement in NA survives, and contact between Europeans and Mesoamerican civilizations gets established centuries earlier, so instead of one-sided European colonization with the plague and conquistadors hitting NA at the same time, you have more prolonged and evenhanded exchange.
the idea of a 'new world' akin to the americas within asoiaf universe would be cool but i really dont think its likely. Assuming the sunset sea is similar to the pacific ocean (in that its very wide and massive and takes ages to cross) there simply wouldnt be enough room on the planet for a whole new extra continent. I think the far eastern lands of essos are what the "Land beyond the sunset sea is referring to". This would mean that Elissa Farman made it to exactly where she wanted. Theres also evidence for this because a lot of the oily and fused black stone stuff is related to the great empire of the dawn, which is in the far east of essos. If Maesters Kirth and Haereg are right, these people probably came from either Asshai or some other place in/around that area. Also remember that the maps we see arent exaclty accurate, especially of places far away from westeros. The Maesters made those maps and just like europeans scholars misrepresented and distorted our real life lands when they tried to make maps of america, australia and asia, westerosi maesters do the same thing for far away places like Asshai. Also Brandon the Shipwright definitely fucking drowned in the middle of the ocean lol
I think it more likely that the Bloodstone Emperor made all of the oily stone things we find in the world. He cast out the gods of Yi Ti to begin worshipping the oily black stone, and that’s about all we really know of the guy
This Video has been out for a few months, so I doubt that anyone is going to see this. I think you are getting the historical inspiration for Brandons Voyage wrong. I think it is based on an (alleged) Voyage by the ruler of the Malian Empire (a mediaval Muslim state in western africa). Allegedly he took 2000 ships and sailed westwards into the atlantic, never to return. I think this is clearly a better inspiration for Brandon, since Lief Erikson was not a ruler (rather a explorer) and did not build a massive armada and did in fact find land and managed to establish a connection to iceland. And like the historical Malian Emperor who (if the Malian record is even a record of an actual, historic event) did not manage to cross the atlantic, since some 200 years later the portugese did not find mosques and west africans in brasil (something they would have probably noted). It is likely that Mali, which was not a major maritime power, was not at the level of the shipbuilding that the portugese required some 200 years later to cross the ocean (Caravels), did not really stand a chance at crossing the atlantic ocean. Similary, I doubt the Northmen (also not of noteable naval experience) would have a better chance at establishing a crossing.
I actually wrote a fan fiction (for fun) in which Arya enlisted a Farwynd man who helped guide her to Wessos lol. Like the character in this vdeo, he could warg into whales, but only orcas. Blue whales, humpback and sperm whales minds' are far too ancient and powerful to occupy. When i quit writing, Arya was running from armored giants. I ran out of steam.
I think there's for sure another land that is undiscovered. Gandalf sword, or what looks like 1. Is on the Ironthrone. What if Lotr is future our world. And Westeros is future Midgard. 🤯
A way for traders to not get to close to the iron islands they sail way around them and sailors use that beacon as a signal. and they trade with the lonely islands and the lone islands dont attack the ships and get trade/supplies. a win/win
If that Farman chick sailed all the way to Asahai by going westward then that means there's no North and South Americos. Or she sailed between them without them being connected.
Working with the theory that westeros represents the UK, essos represents mainland Europe and Asia. Sothoryos is Africa. So there has to be a massive land to the west. Probably southwest of westeros. The known world map of westeros would only be the Northeastern portion of the world.
Its a cool theory, but you said it yourself "we will probably never see Farwynd or exlore this lore again" i would love for Grrm to write about this, or gve us anoter world of ice and fire, but we've been waiting over a decade just to get the next to last book of the story....
Kinda a theory. Black stone = Dragon Glass Obsidian called glass because it's brittle, but we know it's some form of rock that is found near volcanoes. What if, infused black stone is just a magical material made of dragon glass. Whether Valyria has anything to do with it could be considered, since they are also able to make their kingdoms with it.
Blue, then grey, then blue eye eyes again just suggested a nictitating membrane to me... Which many animals possess. Assumed it was an evolutionary adaptation for those people living out in the sea spray for so long alone. Kinda Madagascarian.
If there is a continent west of Westeros, I could see the Land of Always Winter actually forming a land bridge with it. Much like how the Vikings could travel to North America from Greenland
If there was a continent between the lonely light and Asshai, Elissa Farman would never have made it. Oily black stone may come from an earlier Asshai civilisation
Clearing up a few things I worded poorly in the video:
- Yes, Leif Erikson and Norse colonists discovered the Americas before Columbus and established settlements; my point was the exact timeframe (i.e. 500 years before Columbus) is, to my knowledge, disputed a little bit. So I didn't want to say Leif found North America 500 years before Columbus with certainty.
- Human sacrifice is just a small component of the rich Aztec / mesoamerican cultures; the reason I singled out their sacrificial methods was to point out one way this fabled land in the Sunset Sea might not be a paradise, like some (i.e. Gylbert Farwynd) believe. I think it's relevant since the Aztecs were a part of the "New World," and this fabled land would be like Westeros's "New World." I don't want to boil down the entire Aztec culture to human sacrifice.
- I didn't go into the Deep Ones in this video, as I'm trying to keep my runtimes shorter, but another theory I really enjoy is that the Deep Ones are real, they're responsible for the Oily Black Stone and the Seastone Chair, and perhaps they have an underwater kingdom (i.e. the submerged city of Atlantis) in the Sunset Sea; the fabled land is actually a water city, not a land city. Pretty cool option as well.
In 1487 the Aztecs sacrificed between 10000 and 80400 people in a 4 day period. I know, it's a rich and beautiful civilization with great food, wondrous cultural traditions, and friendly people, but are you sure human sacrifice is a *small* component of that culture? I mean, the Boltons don't have a 112 feet in length and 40 feet wide skull rack like archeologists found near Templo Mayor and human sacrifice is quite an important component of their cultural traditions.
Anyway, great video as always
@@magicznyignacy380 Yeah well people got mad at me for only mentioning the human sacrifice, then people got mad at me for downplaying the human sacrifice. So idk man... I'm not a historian, but I did do research, and yeah seems like human sacrifice was kind of a big deal over there
@@CrusaderChris Hah, that's what you get for caring what nobodies on the internet think. People who got mad because you didn't extensively describe their perception of the Aztecs in a 15 minute asoiaf video probably wouldn't care about the corrections anyway and just... add your head to the pile.
@@magicznyignacy380 you do realize you're one of the "nobodies", right? He was talking about you, too
@@comicmoniker Of course. I just happen to be one with the correct amount of chromosomes.
What no winds does to a mofo
Fr 😂 this is so batshit
Bri were all losing it
we're all being madder and madder for every year there's no winds
How is this mad lol
Are you guys new to the concept of magical fantasy world deep lore? haha
Starks lied. Winter is not coming, can't even feel its Winds 😂
7:06 A really overlooked sneaky detail is right here. “Wild pigs” implies that other humans have been there before. Pigs don’t naturally appear on islands. Especially not remote ones. When Spanish explorers were navigating the Americas and found an island, they would release breeding pairs of pigs and leave. On their sail back months or years later, the island would be full of pigs when they returned. A great food source for sailors weary from travel but the pigs had no natural predators and usually decimated the islands ecosystems. It’s an incredible detail that almost confirms that Elissa Farman isn’t the first to get to the islands.
Interesting. Seems the lizards kept the pigs in check.
@@concept5631lizards as big as deer probably Komodo dragons so most likely
That's a very interesting fact.Thank you for sharing!
Yep likely why the dodo 🦤 died out
Doesnt really make sense since its not specified what kind of pigs these are. And since we dont know what kind of pigs these animals are, we cant say that they were domesticated pig that were released there, and could be just native hogs or similar species. Still a nice theory that kinda makes sense if we consider Nymeria`s travel, perhaps few ships went further west or something.
So you’re telling me that in a few hundred years a dragon is going to fly into the world trade center
A second dragon has hit the tower
“Sir, you are NOT going to believe this”
Dragon fire cannot melt black stone.
Yeah, their going to attack Braavos and crash into the twin temples of Semosh and Selloso 🤣🤣🤣
Your grace, a second dragon has hit the Hightower.
A Lighthouse would be very useful for whoever lived and fished on lonely islands weeks away from land. Seal skin and Seal leather are very valuable products afterall.
Yeah but they still have to said for EIGHT FRIGGING DAYS just to get to Iron Island proper which isnt exactly Volantis when it comes to international trade. Idk who they're gonna sell that sealskin to
@burtan2000 Seal Skins used to be hunted for in the Arctic regions in the real world. From there, the skins would shipped all over the world in voyages lasting weeks. Properly salted seal skin will last a good long time, in a ships cargo hold.
In the Iron Islands, the Sailors will have need for, and knowledge on how to develop seal leather products. The Iron Islands buy the seal furs and make their own gear, and some of them also sell the leather further on. A good chunk of the Iron Islanders are traders, not pirates.
@@burtan2000 Not to mention how do they keep the fire burning? It doesn't look like there is much in the way of wood or any other burnable materials there. You would need regular supply runs just to keep the fire burning.
We know there was a huge flood in the ancient past after the Hammer of the Waters. I think Lonely Light was probably the main lighthouse for the westcoast of westeros pre-flood.
@williamhermann6635 There is a Giant Lighthouse at Old Town as well, I recall. Perhaps they are connected?
One great theory I heard in the disputed lands channel was that oily black stone comes from weirwoods that died and petrified. 1) an archimaster told Sam in the citadel that weirwoods don't die, they become stone 2) the shade of the evening is an oily liquid that comes from an paralel tree to the weirwood that is said to drink the light 3) the land south of ashai has lots of black trees. If that is true than ashai could have been built with such tree, as well as lonely light form the land just west of westeros.
Never heard this before
Pretty interesting plus the trees blows red. Maybe the oily substance comes from that
Makes sense that Elysa failed, she perhaps was too South, if she was even bellow the Summer Isles level, as far as it's described as a land with no winter, it should be arround the Neck or bellow, arround, perhaps at the same altitude to Essos, Lonely Light may be the furthest north this hypothetical land reaches.
The sea snake claimed he saw her ship in Ahshi, but it had no crew. This is George’s way of confirming the world is round
sothryos extends south so far a dragon flew south for 3 yrs and couldnt find the end, this implies everything in the known world is still quite a bit above the hemisphere, in fact the summer isles are probably around mexico level or sonething, like cuba perhaps, this means there is a heck ton of land south to hit, more likely the western land isnt one connected landmass like the americas and thus she just got unlucky and passed right through a couple continents
@@XiaoYueMaothat's what I assume. If lady Farman made it to Essos going westward that means there's no giant landmass, Essos goes further around the world or she sailed through & missed continent sized islands.
@@jackj9816 It's George's way of having a fun tale to spawn fan theories. He confirmed the world was round in an interview. He didn't need to put it in a book. The fact they build tall lighthouses already proves Planetos is round as well. A tall lighthouse is completely pointless if you live on a flat world, and you would never build one. You'd build them all at ground level and save the resources. Lighthouses are solely built to be tall so you can see it over the horizon. That's not a factor on a flat world, since there's no horizon that stuff will dip below. Lighthouses prove the world is round, not some probably untrue sailor story that's basically a small reference to Odysseus' journey (all of George's Eastern lore is just referential and made to pay homage to writers he loves) and a way to feed fan theories and make the world feel more alive.
malora and leyton have been hosting a radio show all this time??? they should’ve just said so 🙄🙄
They have been, but since tinfoil hasn't been invented in Planetos yet, no one has the right hats to hear them!
And that’s how Brandon Stark became the king of Brasil
Kkkkkkkkkkkkkmkkkkkkkmmk
Pedro pedro pedro
Oily black stone is very common here in Brasil
when I saw the map of the lonely light to the west of the Iron Islands, i immediately thought of st kilda, to the west of the hebrides in Scotland. They are the last islands in Scotland/British isles before you reach the Americas.
technically rockall is further west but it is uninhabited.
When I was a small summer child to this story I loved the idea and thought it was George foreshadowing the others were going to really be an apocalyptic threat and almost wipe out all of Westeros because of all the in fighting. The dream of spring would be the banners of house stark coming over the horizon to “save the day” and help what remained of our hero’s fight and push back the others. But after the show I realized that was a pipe dream lol. I also thought the others would attack from every shore at once. The dead would come marching out of the water forcing everyone to the center of Westeros aka Harrenhall for one last battle which they would subversively lose
The last stand against the Others being at Harrenhal absolutely slaps
I personally follow the Great Empire of the Dawn dragon riders theory to explain the presence of black stone and oily black stone, with all the places it can be found having been outposts/colonies that cover the sea south of Essos and western Westeros (there are none north of Essos or east of Westeros due to the Arm of Dorne). With Ashi being the empires capital. So im not sure black stone came from across the Sunset Sea.
As for an Americas is Planetos, Im not sure, its possible, and would fit with how the existing continents mirror our own. But I definately think Elissa went around the world and landed in Ashi.
But the Farwynds deffo know more then they are letting on, I agree they are probably skinchanges (or atleast their head is) and they know more about the Sunset Sea then anyone.
It did but the empire went east and reached Westeros after the cataclysm
@@durrangodsgrief6503 I was the same, but I kind of roped Yeen in as having been one of there colonies that tied them to Westeros. But given that we dont know whats easter of the Shadow Lands and how Elissa got there, I deffo think theybcould have also reached Westeros via the Sunset Sea
when the gylbert talks about the lands west it sounds like a cheeky nod to the undying lands in lotr but the lands themselves did not make it undying it was its inhabitants something men in that world did not understand.
1:12 That's really nice of them to set up a beacon especially for the seals.
I really like this theory, I can see the Aztec-esque civilization being the origin of Oily Black Stone, and possibly on the same landmass as Stygai and the Shadowlands.
So just Even more Eastern Essos? Cuz the Shadowlands are quite firmly attached to the Far East.
@@Warden0190 That’s my guess, or perhaps a smaller continent very close to far eastern essos. Perhaps Ulthos?
Nah, Americos is in the way between Westeros and Essos. 😋
No everybody knows the Squishers are the origin of the oily black stone duh
The idea that there could be other Stark’s to this unknown land is brought further home by Arya’s desire to sail west. How cool would it be for her to follow in the footsteps of her ancestors, sail west, and find distant relatives living there.
House Westark!
From Westerfell
King in the West! 🎉
As a member of the Cult of Starry Wisdom and a subscriber to David Lightbringer, I like to think that oily black stone is made of meteorites and the various structures built out of it were made by the great empire of the dawn. Also, warging into a whale would be epic. Also again, we need to have a Patchface spinoff to see if the Deep Ones are real
Oily black stone. Asphalt? Shale with high petroleum? That kind of stuff is resistant to most plant growth.
Plastic
I stumbled across your lore channel by accident. Im so glad I did, because I love your presentation style.
I enjoy all the theroy-crafting of ASOIAF from different channels, as no one really can pin it down, except maybe George, and maybe not even him.
GoT yourself another subscriber.
Thank you, I'm happy you enjoy it
The oily black stone is one of many Lovecraft references in Ice and Fire. The Deep Ones are an exact namedrop from Shadow Over Innsmouth, making the Drowned God Cthulu.
Yi Ti, Leng, Carcosa, Sarnath, and Ib are all direct name drops as well. N'ghai; the strange tribesmen north of Yi Ti, is a slight alteration of N'kai; the kingdom of Tsathogguah, the Toad God. The Great Other is none other than Ithaqua the Windwalker. The Black Goat of Qohor is The Black Goat Shub Niggurath, and I think the Old Gods of the Children of the Forest are also Shub Niggurath and her many children, for she is known as the All Mother and Lord of Forests. The Cult of Starry Wisdom is another direct namedrop, meaning Nyarlathotep exists in Planetos, and I would also parralel him to the Many Faced God, as he is a shapeshifter and bears the title The Faceless God. I may even go so far as saying that Euron Crowseye is the high priest of Starry Wisdom and has become an avatar of the Crawling Chaos. R'hllor is Cthugha the Living Flame, a star made of burning flesh 《Stannis' fiery heart》. The Red Comet even has a parallel, Ghroth the Harbinger, who travels space looking to destroy planets, awakening ancient magics with his psychic siren song. Following this rubric, the only benevolent deities are the Seven. They are clear parrallels to the Greek, Roman, and Germanic pantheons, which are the forms taken by the Elder Gods, the only pro-human entities in the Mythos, and also the least immediately powerful due to their lack of influence over the material realm.
Columbus never wanted to discover new land to the West, he wanted to reach India by sailing West
Personally, I like to think if you walk far enough beyond the wall, you eventually loop back around and wind up in Sothorios.
that would be one hell of a trip
You'll end up at the five forts once you somehow get past the lands of always winter
Or in North-east Essos
If u walk from Canada north u don't just pop up in the south pole 😂 you would still have to travel half a globe to there and the north pole doesn't stretch all the way to the south pole
With how GRRM links sources of magic to either coming from the same source (ie, there are multiple groups of the Children of the Forest throughout the world) or opposing forces (Rhollor and the Great Other). Thus I think 'oily black stone' is fused dragonstone that has come corrupted or stained by evil. This parallels the dark mystery of Asshai, which is a massive city bigger Kingslanding, Volantese, Old Town, and Qaarth combined. Yet it is terribly cursed after the Blackstone Emperor started worshipping necromancy and caused the First Long Night. Thus I think oily blackstone is linked to evil necromancy and worship of the Great Other (who takes many forms such as the Black Goat, the Drowned god), and is corrupted, like the sea stone chair. The Iron Islands followed the Old Gods until the followers of Great Other (drowned god) chopped down the massive weirwood grove on Old Wyk.
As far as I know, boats can get lost, lighthouses help ships guide themselves during foggy days and dark nights.
You now, 8 days from Euron is a good policy at this point in time.
Getting northern Skyrim vibes from this one...always a beautiful point in a playthrough getting to the ice platforms and horker seals
Skinchanging IS an inherited ability! It just doesn’t always manifest and requires a bond with an animal to even discover. It’s also a dormant trait that skips generations but is very much inherited through bloodlines.
I keep thinking of Norm Macdonald Live and how he kept pronouncing “Iron”
Bro this is such a great and well made video. Keep it up, you've gained a new subscriber
Since the three small islands are under the latitude of Summer Isles and Asshai, Ulthos, and saffron strait are near that latitude, could it be possible that there is no new continent beyond the sunset sea? as the sunchaser was told that it ended up in asshai port, probably after crossing the saffron strait or maybe circumnavigating southern shore of Ulthos.
In Wheel of time you also have Prince who was sent across the Western Ocean with a fleet and vanished. 1000 years later his descendants return - and it's nothing but trouble for the old homeland. As George started his saga a few years past WoT, I think he will be careful to avoid certain tropes.
I think given GRRM's living in the southeast and respect for history and southwest culture, there's almost certainly ideas in his head on a civilization such as that. Regardless, the wonder is the point of it and idk if he'll ever really finish it. If it ever does become finished, I think he'd want this successor to do it.
Is oily black stone a petroleum analogy?
I find the idea interesting, that Brandon did start a whole "westerosesque" civilization over at the proposed new land. That would be kind of similar on how the children of Artur Paendrag Tanreall in the wheel of time discovered seanchan and started whole ass kingdome over there. It would even be funnier if in the next book out of nowhere the desendants of brandon came sailing back to westeros, taking out the ironborn and trying to conquer back their lost land to wich they have the right to by blood.
there is a fanfic called sunset starks about the shipwrights decendants
All these kinds of videos are a result of no winds for 13 years
Columbus wasn't the benevolent explorer as he's portrayed
Yeah he was a bit of a rascal to say the least
@@CrusaderChrisHe discovered America is what he did! He was a great Italian explorer! And in this house, Christopher Columbus is a hero - end of story! 😡🍝
How can the lighthouse burn day and night if it is build on a desolate rock? What are they burning?
Could the lost Stark ships be the ancestors of house Farwynd?
Great video keep it up you're doing amazing things also who do you think will be on the iron throne by the end of winds of winter?
A lost Stark kingdom would certainly be a parallel to the real-world myth of Prester John.
I saw the fabled land west of Westeros was a mixture of the Americas and Atlantis, but who knows the truth until George gets around to giving us more information?
This is a loooooooooooooong shot. Really, really long shot.
Elissa Farman might be GRRM's Magelan, not Columbus.
Wasn't implied it just wraps around to essos later on though? Like where the one evil greyjoy is moving around with his fleet so fast no one can believe it and the other characters don't know how he's doing it? I thought it was pretty solidly implied he was just sailing around the world and back.
The hightower fused stone is an outpost from the first dragonriders/gemstone emperors., like how Dragonstone is for the Targaryens.
In universe an interesting puzzle, how many of the not-returning sailors perished on sea and how many, if any, reached and remained on that hypothetical land beyond the sunset sea?
SPOILER for the wheel of time books. In the wheel of time books there is a king who builds a great fleet led by his son in order to explore an unknown sea, his fleet never comes back so everyone thinks it was lost, but after a thousand years during the main series they come back and find out that they did find land and that they conquered it and its people, and now they want to conquer their ancestor home.
Bonkers theory, but it indulges my personal favorite althistory scenario, where Viking settlement in NA survives, and contact between Europeans and Mesoamerican civilizations gets established centuries earlier, so instead of one-sided European colonization with the plague and conquistadors hitting NA at the same time, you have more prolonged and evenhanded exchange.
Can't believe George left a Bioshock reference in his books
How did they build a keep and beacon when there was no wood/resources to live on the islands
the idea of a 'new world' akin to the americas within asoiaf universe would be cool but i really dont think its likely. Assuming the sunset sea is similar to the pacific ocean (in that its very wide and massive and takes ages to cross) there simply wouldnt be enough room on the planet for a whole new extra continent. I think the far eastern lands of essos are what the "Land beyond the sunset sea is referring to". This would mean that Elissa Farman made it to exactly where she wanted.
Theres also evidence for this because a lot of the oily and fused black stone stuff is related to the great empire of the dawn, which is in the far east of essos. If Maesters Kirth and Haereg are right, these people probably came from either Asshai or some other place in/around that area. Also remember that the maps we see arent exaclty accurate, especially of places far away from westeros. The Maesters made those maps and just like europeans scholars misrepresented and distorted our real life lands when they tried to make maps of america, australia and asia, westerosi maesters do the same thing for far away places like Asshai.
Also Brandon the Shipwright definitely fucking drowned in the middle of the ocean lol
imagine a series starring Arya Stark on her mission to visit the east and she ends up on this place called the grand line in the east blue.
There she meets a cracked head with his band of lunatics.
I think it more likely that the Bloodstone Emperor made all of the oily stone things we find in the world. He cast out the gods of Yi Ti to begin worshipping the oily black stone, and that’s about all we really know of the guy
Okay now we need an Elissa Farman show.
Ok so where do they get the timber for the lighthouse?
The oily black stone is a reference to the C'thulhu mythos.
This Video has been out for a few months, so I doubt that anyone is going to see this.
I think you are getting the historical inspiration for Brandons Voyage wrong. I think it is based on an (alleged) Voyage by the ruler of the Malian Empire (a mediaval Muslim state in western africa). Allegedly he took 2000 ships and sailed westwards into the atlantic, never to return. I think this is clearly a better inspiration for Brandon, since Lief Erikson was not a ruler (rather a explorer) and did not build a massive armada and did in fact find land and managed to establish a connection to iceland. And like the historical Malian Emperor who (if the Malian record is even a record of an actual, historic event) did not manage to cross the atlantic, since some 200 years later the portugese did not find mosques and west africans in brasil (something they would have probably noted). It is likely that Mali, which was not a major maritime power, was not at the level of the shipbuilding that the portugese required some 200 years later to cross the ocean (Caravels), did not really stand a chance at crossing the atlantic ocean. Similary, I doubt the Northmen (also not of noteable naval experience) would have a better chance at establishing a crossing.
I'm more interested in the idea of ASOIAF version of Australia
I actually wrote a fan fiction (for fun) in which Arya enlisted a Farwynd man who helped guide her to Wessos lol. Like the character in this vdeo, he could warg into whales, but only orcas. Blue whales, humpback and sperm whales minds' are far too ancient and powerful to occupy. When i quit writing, Arya was running from armored giants. I ran out of steam.
I don't think there is a hidden continent west of Westeros, because Planetos already has an analogue for the Americas: Westeros.
I think there's for sure another land that is undiscovered. Gandalf sword, or what looks like 1. Is on the Ironthrone. What if Lotr is future our world. And Westeros is future Midgard. 🤯
What if the guy was warging in and out to converse or get information about something
The starks got to Argentina and stayed there for the mate and empanadas
A way for traders to not get to close to the iron islands they sail way around them and sailors use that beacon as a signal. and they trade with the lonely islands and the lone islands dont attack the ships and get trade/supplies. a win/win
It be funny if theon was actually a ancient stark
Will house stark get there valerian sword back?
Eyes that shift color are not common, but happen. My father’s eyes do the blue/grey shift and will also go violet. It’s not so important.
so brazil is officially in the asoiaf?
Sweet! A Hernan Stark!
They really should do a show about Arya Starks journey west into the unknown
If that Farman chick sailed all the way to Asahai by going westward then that means there's no North and South Americos. Or she sailed between them without them being connected.
Or there is no New World, people just end up in the east of Essos
1:50 starks about skagos
Veil towards sistermen
Working with the theory that westeros represents the UK, essos represents mainland Europe and Asia. Sothoryos is Africa. So there has to be a massive land to the west. Probably southwest of westeros. The known world map of westeros would only be the Northeastern portion of the world.
Its a cool theory, but you said it yourself "we will probably never see Farwynd or exlore this lore again" i would love for Grrm to write about this, or gve us anoter world of ice and fire, but we've been waiting over a decade just to get the next to last book of the story....
The world map of Asoiaf only covers a quarter of the Globe. There is a lot that is hidden off the map in ASOIAF.
Brandon Stark exiled to Brazil
Lonely Light was probly the main lighthouse before the Hammer of the Waters flooded Westeros.
If you want more trails to follow on “oily black stone” look into the Ibbenese, and Moat Cailin.
Btw if proven that the Norse found the new world before Columbus not a might
There are varying sources on Leif Erikson’s life, so I can’t say for certain he found the Americas 500 years before Columbus.
The legend of St. Brendans isle matches this lore
Okay, Allyssa Farman is Captain Cook then - Columbus never circumnavigated!
No way they living on that island and haven't got up to something wacky lol 😅
Lol the world of ASoIaF is round "what is west of the west" is actually Ashai. Or some land between Ashai and that light tower - local America.
Kinda a theory.
Black stone = Dragon Glass
Obsidian called glass because it's brittle, but we know it's some form of rock that is found near volcanoes. What if, infused black stone is just a magical material made of dragon glass. Whether Valyria has anything to do with it could be considered, since they are also able to make their kingdoms with it.
Blue, then grey, then blue eye eyes again just suggested a nictitating membrane to me... Which many animals possess. Assumed it was an evolutionary adaptation for those people living out in the sea spray for so long alone. Kinda Madagascarian.
The use the beacon to find their own way back to their tiny islands. I solved this at 1:38
If there is a continent west of Westeros, I could see the Land of Always Winter actually forming a land bridge with it. Much like how the Vikings could travel to North America from Greenland
house stark brazilian Paradise Kingdom confirmed??? 😱
Theres a Stark kingdom in Brazil confirmed.
OK they are Selkies!
There's a whole book called The World of Ice and Fire that can answer these questions...
Nice video
More on the nose than Leif Erikson and Columbus is St. Brandon the Navigator. Look him up!
i think rr martin wanted to get some thulu mysteries going.nothingmore
Definitely think there is a Stark domain west of Westeros and Arya will find the descendants of Brandon the Ship Wright
If there was a continent between the lonely light and Asshai, Elissa Farman would never have made it. Oily black stone may come from an earlier Asshai civilisation
04:00 so now us the brazilians are the responsible for those oily black stones uh