Take note, Honda is one of the few car companies that listened to the community on their outgoing model and made every improvement we wanted to see and then some
Honestly I liked how the old gen stuck out so much, there’s no mistaking it for any other civic model. This one you don’t notice it’s a type R until you get up close on it
People complained about the styling of the outgoing Type R, but I always found it to be demographically correct, given it's target market, and the fact that it's a hot hatch. The fact that it looked "juvenile and obnoxious" to quote Car & Driver, made it even more of an authentic hot hatch IMO.
The new styling makes sense in that way too. It looks like an Accord because it's more sports sedan than hot hatch. Young people are mostly getting priced out of buying new cars.
I loved that it fully embraced someone who probably grew up watching The Fast and the Furious and had a fever dream of suping up their dad's Honda Civic. Looked exactly like that.
I agree with you on the price. I don't care how much of a car enthusiast you are. Paying above $50k for a front-wheel 4-cyclinder car is NUTS to me. This is coming from a honda owner.
Quick correction: there IS another wheel option that’s not black. Painted aluminum wheels are available as an optional extra. Just built one the other day directly on the Honda USA site.
Never thought a civic would be so far out of my price range. Easily will be pushing close to 70K after dealer markups, taxes, etc. Insane. I hope dealerships go the way of the dinosaur and manufacturers can start selling direct to customers for a MSRP out the door.
That cargo cover is actually brilliant. Helping people load large items into the back of their vehicles and having them not know how to remove the cargo cover is fairly frustrating, both for the vehicle owner and the loader. Kudos to Honda.
I’m a paraplegic and could never use the cargo covers of anything that I owned. I don’t know why someone didn’t thing of going side to side a long time ago.
@@andruboine I agree. It seems like they just asked everyone on the design team to make a list of the things people thought were too sporty looking and too stylish. They just removed them and there ya go. 11th gen across the board. Except maybe the Si sedan. I do like the look of it.
@@andruboine Have to agree as well. I think the old one funnily enough was better looking actually, even if it's over designed. This just looks... boring.
@@sydam9116 agreed. I hate the cake vents but love mine over the new one. Can't wait to smoke anyone in the new one since throttle house showed it sucks in a roll race against the old version.
The civic type R was always supposed to be the affordable performance car. The ones that a young person could afford and fulfil their dreams. But now it's same price as German cars
don't worry, I'll just buy a miata or used lexus, the lexus will put this thing in the dirt feature wise and still have just shy of 300HP for a fraction of the cost you don't need 40k to enjoy a car, especially a bland honda that's FWD
Dealership called me to check one out. Once I got there, they told me $40k mark up on a $43k car. How is that supposed to be reasonable at all... literally had me boiling 😡
Except after a few years when it goes floppy and won't return to its housing like mine did on the previous model. (It's not repairable either - plastic welds all over it so no getting inside to add a bit of oil)...
I never really thought the outgoing Type-R was that offensive, I didn't mind the styling because it kind of matched the attitude the Type-R has had over the years. However now they've brought the new one out, I see where you're coming from. It could have looked a lot better. I think a lot more people will take it seriously now.
honestly I feel like the old Type-R was better. The old one was drastically over styled, but with the new one it feels like they just replaced one extreme with another. I loved the old one, I understand why people complained but it felt like it fit the cars character. however the new one is not offensive, nor is it bad. The new Civic just looks like a generic saloon, and the Type R just looks like a slightly more styled business saloon with a bit of Rice. its not bad, its not great, it's just neutral and a bit underwhelming.
18:50 - I *LOVE* that cargo cover! That is way nicer than the usual "removable front-to-back" style every other hatchback/SUV has! If the bit it retracted in to was better integrated into the side wall, instead of obviously being tacked on, it would be perfect. *EVERY* hatchback/SUV should have this!
This guy has to be on something. The sheer amount of energy, gestures, and general hand movement maintained throughout the entire video is astounding. On a different level, keep the energy man, keep the energy.
The 11th gen Type R is pretty clean but with 10th gen civics you can actually tell what’s a hatchback and what’s a sedan without having to be told. The Hatchbacks and Sedans look damn near identical now.
I disagree, I actually liked the "overdesigned" old type r, it had it's own charm, but as they say the beauty is in the eye of the beholder so to each their own
Its one of those special edition ones with the special orange paint though so I guess it kind of makes sense. Honda had those special edition yellow Type Rs and they were going for almost 50-80k out the door cause yellow paint so there you go, modern car industry/market for you.
Yes but Feb 2022 a base model Pontiac Aztek went for $10K. I'm a big Aztek fan and it was a beaut in bright yellow but base, base, base. Fully equipped would have Versatrak AWD, leather, heated seats, sunroof, trailering provision, CD changer, Rally edition (GT if it was an '01) and the beloved head-up display. Even then a dealer will sell it for $4K to $6K, defining top dollar.
I have to say I really love this car. I think this thing driving at you head on will look pretty mean given its stance and widebody. And you can't deny there is something so special and iconic when you see a white type R with the red interior and aluminum shift knob. Its crazy how well these cars hold their value too.
@@rogergeyer9851 well they do you cuckit user, makes the car handle differently due to rigidity and shorter wheelbase. Not to mention its an actual sports car then
@@13bulletclip no it wouldn't. The proof is the fact that they canned the civic coupe in general, the accord before that, and the fact that the only people who like these are 12-19 years old and can't afford one or old and broke and never want to buy a new car but always hoping to buy something used for 5 grand.
Kind of annoying when a reviewer keeps the car in a stiffer suspension mode, then complains about the stiffness. THERE'S A COMFORT MODE, for a reason...The Type-R has one of, if not THE, largest adjustment ranges for the suspension. If he were to just pop it down into comfort mode, it'd smooth out all the little bumps and road imperfections. My father's first comment when I first drove him around in my 2023 Type-R was just how much smoother it felt compared to my previous 2020 Civic Si (in regular non-sport mode).
The thing with the styling is - there are plenty of people (myself included) who loved the absolutely insane styling of the old one. It was mad as a box of frogs, and that's what people liked about it. BUT. They sold a lot of them. A LOT of them. And now all the people who wanted that - well, they have one! So if the new one was the same - nobody would buy it - because they already have one! So I do agree the new styling will sell better, but not because it's actually better (it's not), but because all the fans already got what they wanted, and now Honda are trying to hit a slightly more moderate market. The real test will be in 5 years time. Which model will have higher resale value? My money is on the mad one.
I really loved this type R, and I have been going to dealerships and also getting the run around at other places with crazy $40k mark up to the point I rather just keep my 2017 370z. Dealerships really ruin the car enthusiasts' dreams of affordable sports cars.
19:32 I'd like to make a small correction about torque steer. Torque steer is caused by an imbalance in the lengths of the drive axles because the transmission is on one side of the engine. That's why torque steer isn't random, it will go in the same direction every time. Force is transferred differently through different length axles and as Doug says, the problem is on higher HP fwd cars.
Not simply higher power cars but high torque cars. You can have higher power cars where the torque can be manipulated throughout the rev range to reduce the effects, and increase power by raising the rev limit.
Torque steer in essence, is the toe variation when torque is applied (either engine torque or brake torque). FWD cars usually have a suspension geometry that's prone to torque steer. But yes, unequal length drive shafts would cause an imbalance on the torque each wheel receives, so the toe variation is different between the wheels, which would make the car veer to one side. Manufacturers that really worry about the handling of their cars, usually try to make different suspension geometries to mitigate that issue, something Ford did on the MK2 Focus RS
Your reply is interesting. I have an older 07 Civic type r I think because it's naturally aspirated I don't get talk steer problems As you said, maybe how the gearbox is configurated to the front wheels. But if you drive a ford with a turbo like an ST, it's terrible??
You're absolutely right about it gaining weight, unfortunately that's a biproduct of modern interior amenities, safer chassis design and safety systems, which is why I'll continue to drive 80s-2000s shitboxes... also because I'm broke and that's all I can afford.
I hear you on the 80s etc shitboxes. Something about not being able to see over the hood prevents me from driving anything new these days. Love the low to the ground feel those older Hondas have.
@@23ofSeptember exactly this, whenever i drive a newer car it's like it's entirely disconnected from the road, it lowers your vigilance and allows you to drive much faster without realizing how fast you're going, in this one way it's less safe cause you're less aware and a crash at those speeds will kill you even with all that modern equipment
88-2000 was Honda's Golden Years. I did like the RSX-S tho. rarely see those on the road anymore for some reason, idk? I had a 92 eg civic hatchback with a k20 rsx-s motor in it. that thing was so peppy. had major torque steer as doug described. also tuned ecu so that the Vtec kicked in early at 4,500 rpm. car was amazing to drive
@@DMSBrian24 It just feels like they have to tick too many boxes nowadays. More rear legroom so lets make it a "hatch" or huge crumple zones and bulky info-tainment systems.
Another thorough, detailed review. Even when I strongly disagree with a comment or conclusion, I still appreciate the serious effort Doug makes on these reviews.
I miss the Grand Tour tent, if it was still there, Jeremy would show this car and say that if he had the old one he would feel suicidal, and Hammond would say “who do we know who has one” and the camera will cut to May
@@alfred0621 he wrote an article about how the Jeep Liberty (my car) is the ugliest redesign in automotive history. and honestly i agree 🤣 still love my car tho
@@lukasg4807 Yeah, I’m still in my mid 20’s and want something a little obnoxious. I didn’t look at Golf R because I didn’t like the styling. I really wanted a Nitrous Blue Focus RS but they were like MSRP with 20k miles 18 months ago.
Bro, your videos are great. If I have to watch a car video, it's always yours, and I do that daily. But the best part is playing them at night. Your videos help me sleep, so whenever I'm not sleepy, I watch your videos to get some sleep. Thanks for that. But that doesn't mean they're boring or bad; they're the best. It's just me.
Am I really the only one who actually liked outgoing model styling more ? :D Maybe it was overstyled but hey, its proven now that it wasn’t much (if at all) slower than this one and in my opinion that fact allows it to look like race car :D
No you’re not. I liked it too. I thought some of the venting should have been functional but I thought it was very distinctive and Japanese. And it definitely wasn’t boring. I kind of miss it
I didn't like it at first, but like a lot of designs, it grew less offensive and I actually really like it. I'm not sure which I like more, the new one or the old one.
@@goenitzlopez2076 I would say you fine through until late 20 even early 30s. This new one though, it looks boring as hell and looks like just another Accord tbh.
I actually liked the aggressive styling of the previous model, and I don’t like the front end of this new one, but the previous gen was a step up from the prior civics that looked like speed bumps…
One more comment! This is IMO the best looking generation since the 6th gen. Keeping it simple, and to the point. I understand many will disagree...but that goes for every new/old generation that's been released.
i LOVE that cargo cover!!!! Finally, a cargo cover that you don't need to remove to fully utilize the cargo space. Especially if you drop the rear seats. Everything before this, you needed to take out some heavy rolled up bulky bar or a fuzzy plastic clam shell. The fact that you don't have to store some awkwardly shaped and often times heavy item to fully utilize your cargo space if you aren't using it, and still have the ability to hide your cargo when you want to is an absolute game changer. That is an innovation that needs to be on every hatch equipped car from here on out. BRAVO Honda!
As a Golf R owner, I liked the fact that the old Type R had an over the top design. It stood out. It was different than its competition. This one, loses most of that.
I love my new 2022 Honda Civic SI. I also prefer my interior over the type r. One more thing I like my spoiler much more the type R. The rear spoil on the type R looks like it's after market. But I do like the hood the air induction.
Same, I have the Canadian SI so I pretty much have all of the equipment too, though I admit the Type R's seats could be nice. Not that I have any problem with the SI's seats but these look a bit more fancy.. and I wouldn't say no to the extra power either, but definitely not for $17k more lmao
People is crazy I really think the prior civic gen including the Type R was waaay better looking and way less bland this look like a jetta with an after market spoiler on in it
It would be cool so see with low profile after market wing risers. Almost flush with the hatch and further back. I’m sure they will be made by some company eventually.
@@paulie-Gualtieri. thank you! But it's not for me. It's the original. The one you had was the proper grammar one edited by Doug in a Kia SUV mocking how he could speak into a mic to the back seat passengers
I must be one of the only guys that actually likes the look of the 2017-18 type r's lol especially in black or blue. 🖤 💙 If i could find a clean used one under 40xxx in mileage and price. I'd hop on it.
I really disagree about the styling, especially the rear wing - this one looks like someone took a Civic Si (or really an Accord) and slapped an aftermarket spoiler on it. The supposed "overstyling" of the previous model at least looked like there was a consistent design concept. I know this one will be more popular among those who like the idea of stealthy performance where you can't tell what it's capable of just by looking at it, and I don't think it looks awful by any means, but my only real problem with the old one was that so many of the vents and cutouts were non-functional. If they had kept the styling similar and booted the unnecessary parts or just replaced them with actual air intakes, I would be a bigger fan of the car overall. At least it seems like it performs up to expectations for the Type R brand because it doesn't really look the part to me.
This is what a Civic Type R has always been since the EK9. A simple, understated track car with a few minor but meticulous adjustments and modifications. A lot of people don’t realize that the Civic Type R was never as insanely designed as the FK8 in prior generations, because we didn’t get a Type R outside of the JDM until the FK8. People who saw the Civic Type R before the 10th generation release know that it was never an overstyled car, that’s not what it was supposed to be.
I think the most underrated comparison people aren’t making is between the cost of this type R (with the markup) and the TLX Type s. It’s also a Honda, it’s faster, nicer inside and out, and is a true luxury car. Yes it may not be the same track weapon as this, but at 55 grand for the Type S, and 60-75 for this Type R… I’d go to the Acura dealer asap.
Neither cars are winning many drag races though; the CTR would take the ILX's cookies on a race track, or mountain pass - that's all that matters to buyers of such a vehicle.
I think giving it a 6 for value is being pretty generous for the fact its probably going to be marked up so much. Especially when you can get an Elantra N for less than $40k OTD which is, IMO, at least 90% as good. I guess it just depends if you go by MSRP or actual asking prices.
@@Roflcakes88 Yes, and they need to maintain at least _some_ profit margin to make up for the fewer sales from the limited inventory. After all, they are in business to make money...
Should have commented on the Nordschleife time, 7mins 44 seconds is the same as the Pagani Zonda c12s … not bad for a fwd hot hatch, it should be at the top of the list mate.
Comments on the pricing are spot on. I made some calls to local Honda dealerships in the Atlanta area and all of them are tacking on 20K-28K on top of MSRP. At that price I doubt Honda will move the volume they want to keep this Type R idea alive, which is really sad.
The base price is high already, but depending on markup this car could end up the same as the MSRP of a nicely equipped 2023 Audi RS3, and that car is on another planet compared to a Civic
At LEAST the old wing looked 'factory', even if it was a huge eyesore. The new one is easier to overlook, but when you DO, it sort of looks like an aftermarket spoiler that someone just bolted on the trunk themselves?
that wing did not look factory at all, that's why ppl keep roasting it till this day. It's the kind of wing a 16 yr old would've copped from ebay and threw on their beater civic or accord.
I liked the factory wing on FK8 but I think it would fit better if it was a saloon car, like the FD2 Civic Type R has. It has a wing that fits the design of the FD2 gen very well.
yea this wing looks fucking awful if by some unfortunate turn of events I ever found myself in possession of one of these overpriced pieces of horse shit I would immediately rip it off
Last week I traded my beautiful red 2022 Honda Civic Sport for the 2024 Civic Sport Hatchback with CVT. The dealer had one Type R there and it was beautiful. I really wanted to get it instead but I was held back by my inability to driver a manual. The Civic Type R is definitely going to be my first manual in a year or two.
I have a 21 type R and I LOVE IT. I actually bought this one instead of the 23 because I do not care for the style of the new one. It looks like an accord to me. Part of the reason I have always wanted a Type R is because of the badass body design, so I was extremely disappointed when I saved for years to get a new Type R off the lot and then seen this new 23 Type R design. It doesn’t look like a sports car to me at all. While I understand Honda wanting to change the style drastically, but they should have given this one a completely different name because it looks nothing like a Type R.
I keep seeing comments like this which makes we wonder if y’all ever actually seen a Type R in person the only fake vents are the 2 in the back and you can cosmetically do something with them.
This car has just been announced in the UK and it's retailing at £47k so about $38.5k at todays rate but I don't think that dealers are allowed to mark-up like they do in the States. All the reviews here are much more favourable so I wonder if they are set up differently. The steering has come in for criticism in US reviews especially when compared to the FK8 and maybe the ride but here they say the steering is superb and although the ride is obviously firm it's well rounded off. All reviewers say it's well worth the £47k and is probably the best hot hatch of all time. Top Gear have awarded it Car of the Year!
Honestly i think i like the look of the fk8 better.. the new one is kinda shaped like a pug or something… to bulky at the front and too stubby at the back lol. I will say however the interior is an absolute upgrade over fk8 hands down. But maybe when body kits and stuff comes out i will like it more
Isn't the fk8 the one with the bulky short front? The fl5 kinda narrow like the accord but it has a wider body obviously. Both cars don't much of a difference in the rear except the fk8 is taller due to the fastback design.
@@ii_dynasty nah i think i dont like it because the front is too long… reminds me of the acura integra redesign where it was too bulky and long and not at all sporty looking… they keep trying to throw in soccer mom factors in cars meant for tracking and all.
I would delete the spoiler immediately upon delivery of one. Kinda like how Porsche did with the 911R Seems like a decent car! Nice work on this review Doug.
Love your reviews man, keep up the good work. I want one of these so bad but the markups are insane right now, my nearest dealer here in Florida was asking 70k. Has anyone ever told you, you remind them of Quentin Tarantino? Lol.
Doug the type of guy to feel jetlagged after flying to the same timezone.
🤣🤣
ruclips.net/video/1WjBF2kHqs0/видео.html more hype.
@@jacobjames319 😊😊😊😊
💀
huge fail in trying to be funny or original
Take note, Honda is one of the few car companies that listened to the community on their outgoing model and made every improvement we wanted to see and then some
Ikr
And added fake engine noise
Minus AWD
@@Pdpawlak and 10k more for 15hp gains
@@Karto86 Atlanta Falcons: Hold My Beer
I really like this Type R, my only complaint is that it’s so long now it looks more like an Accord than a Civic
Maybe an old Accord, but the '22 or '23 Accord are boats
That’s Exactly what makes it look ugly…
Anyone who finds this car attractive should re-evaluate their love of cars…
@@brandonleesanders The old Rs were ugly, everyone agrees
@@drippy623 - The old one was ugly.
The new one is even uglier.
The normal sedan variant looks like an Accord for sure but this Type R “hatchback” looks better
Honestly I liked how the old gen stuck out so much, there’s no mistaking it for any other civic model. This one you don’t notice it’s a type R until you get up close on it
or if youre blind.
The old one looks ricy
old one looks more of a track car than this familly car who wants to go to the track but says na .... i just go out on the weekends with the boys
The new 2023 type R should be the sports hatchback of the civic. The 2023 civics looks so ordinary.
Agreed. This car looks just like any other sedan/hatchback on the road. Boring AF.
People complained about the styling of the outgoing Type R, but I always found it to be demographically correct, given it's target market, and the fact that it's a hot hatch. The fact that it looked "juvenile and obnoxious" to quote Car & Driver, made it even more of an authentic hot hatch IMO.
took the words out of my mouth
The new styling makes sense in that way too. It looks like an Accord because it's more sports sedan than hot hatch. Young people are mostly getting priced out of buying new cars.
@@shen1han It's a depressing thought, but you're right.
@@shen1han agree with you 1000% the owners of the new civic are so adamant about it not looking like an accord but at a quick glance it certainly does
I loved that it fully embraced someone who probably grew up watching The Fast and the Furious and had a fever dream of suping up their dad's Honda Civic. Looked exactly like that.
I agree with you on the price. I don't care how much of a car enthusiast you are. Paying above $50k for a front-wheel 4-cyclinder car is NUTS to me. This is coming from a honda owner.
100% agreed
Yeah I'll take an IS350 at that price, and I love driving manual as much as anyone.
Never ever lol
@7D I've seen $68k
Word, Brah.
Quick correction: there IS another wheel option that’s not black. Painted aluminum wheels are available as an optional extra. Just built one the other day directly on the Honda USA site.
yes theyre forged too theyre a different wheel
Same with the shift knob. I believe it's either black or red or both.
Yea and honestly the Aluminum wheels look so much better than the plain wheels
US Option only if you go on the Canadian site the aluminum wheels aren’t available
yeah, for like $3,000 more. They trippin!
Never thought a civic would be so far out of my price range. Easily will be pushing close to 70K after dealer markups, taxes, etc. Insane. I hope dealerships go the way of the dinosaur and manufacturers can start selling direct to customers for a MSRP out the door.
$77,877.....to be exact. Lia Honda in Buffalo has a black one and thats the price he handed me. I almost fainted.
@@axe2grind244 dang . Thats alot
@@axe2grind244 Fuuhhhck.
I'm in CA. I can not imagine what my local dealers will price theirs
@@LJ_S1K It’s more than an RS3 lol.
@@axe2grind244 I would have died laughing in their face.
I like the 3 tailpipes... but once you see it, it's hard to unsee: they kind of look like those old bicycle horns with the bulb you squeeze.
lol😂😂😂
Yep!!!
Maybe the center pipe is exhaust and the outer two are for the wastegate?
Damn! You messed me up on that 🤦♂️
You ruined it lol
That cargo cover is actually brilliant. Helping people load large items into the back of their vehicles and having them not know how to remove the cargo cover is fairly frustrating, both for the vehicle owner and the loader. Kudos to Honda.
Agree it is more simple wondering why it is not that common for cars that need cargo cover.
I’m a paraplegic and could never use the cargo covers of anything that I owned. I don’t know why someone didn’t thing of going side to side a long time ago.
I dig that new cover it's practical and smart not to mention cool💪
I like it more than the springy bar in my STi.
I'm surprised Doug didn't mention that cover was in the last model as well. I have the exact same one in my Civic Sport hatch
"looks like it was designed over the phone". Savage Doug.
That shit took me out!!🤣🤣🤣🤣
Looks like this one wasn't designed at all... Throw a spoiler on it we done baby!
@@andruboine I agree. It seems like they just asked everyone on the design team to make a list of the things people thought were too sporty looking and too stylish. They just removed them and there ya go. 11th gen across the board. Except maybe the Si sedan. I do like the look of it.
@@andruboine Have to agree as well. I think the old one funnily enough was better looking actually, even if it's over designed. This just looks... boring.
@@sydam9116 agreed. I hate the cake vents but love mine over the new one. Can't wait to smoke anyone in the new one since throttle house showed it sucks in a roll race against the old version.
The civic type R was always supposed to be the affordable performance car. The ones that a young person could afford and fulfil their dreams. But now it's same price as German cars
In the Netherlands the price will be 80k MRSP😮💨😪🥵😭🤬
don't worry, I'll just buy a miata or used lexus, the lexus will put this thing in the dirt feature wise and still have just shy of 300HP for a fraction of the cost
you don't need 40k to enjoy a car, especially a bland honda that's FWD
Dealership called me to check one out. Once I got there, they told me $40k mark up on a $43k car. How is that supposed to be reasonable at all... literally had me boiling 😡
@@Buh_Buh_Bacon i feel this
@@silver1407 what Lexus in particular? 🤔
The side-to-side cargo cover is great, no more front-to-rear roller in the way when you drop down the rear seats to fit large GT3RS watering cans
I'd like that in my own car. The covers that go over and block are annoying af so I always just take them fully out of the car.
taken right out of the odyssey
Except after a few years when it goes floppy and won't return to its housing like mine did on the previous model. (It's not repairable either - plastic welds all over it so no getting inside to add a bit of oil)...
You can also remove/flip it so it goes from left to right or right to left, this was the same for the 10th gen.
I never really thought the outgoing Type-R was that offensive, I didn't mind the styling because it kind of matched the attitude the Type-R has had over the years. However now they've brought the new one out, I see where you're coming from. It could have looked a lot better. I think a lot more people will take it seriously now.
It was overstyled but not in an ugly way
honestly I feel like the old Type-R was better. The old one was drastically over styled, but with the new one it feels like they just replaced one extreme with another. I loved the old one, I understand why people complained but it felt like it fit the cars character. however the new one is not offensive, nor is it bad. The new Civic just looks like a generic saloon, and the Type R just looks like a slightly more styled business saloon with a bit of Rice. its not bad, its not great, it's just neutral and a bit underwhelming.
Idk the new one is very vanilla. There was something special about the old one. The new one is just too simple and boxy.
I liked it better
I thought it was ugly. IMO, it was almost a mockery to Honda enthusiast.
18:50 - I *LOVE* that cargo cover! That is way nicer than the usual "removable front-to-back" style every other hatchback/SUV has! If the bit it retracted in to was better integrated into the side wall, instead of obviously being tacked on, it would be perfect. *EVERY* hatchback/SUV should have this!
This guy has to be on something. The sheer amount of energy, gestures, and general hand movement maintained throughout the entire video is astounding. On a different level, keep the energy man, keep the energy.
The 11th gen Type R is pretty clean but with 10th gen civics you can actually tell what’s a hatchback and what’s a sedan without having to be told. The Hatchbacks and Sedans look damn near identical now.
👆👆Thanks for the feedback,
Expect more video very soon send a directiy message I have something for you(🎁🎉🎉🎁)..
Noticing it looks like a Honda lawnmower is a hilarious detail I’m glad someone thought of. 😂
I just thought it was a little lighthearted roast
And the BMW plastic covers look like my Braun shaver lmao
If the engine lasts as long as a Honda lawnmower, take it as a compliment.
@@Richaag yup. Among the most reliable internal combustion Engines on the planet
Honda does make the best lawnmower engines, so I’ll give it a pass. 😅
I disagree, I actually liked the "overdesigned" old type r, it had it's own charm, but as they say the beauty is in the eye of the beholder so to each their own
It's blocking the view and without it the car would be nicer.
EXACTLY. I love the 8th 9th and 10th myself.
The 9th got a lot of knock from auto enthusiasts but as a car guy myself I’ve always liked it, I found it better than the 8th.
Same here
You guys are a part of the tasteless masses
Never have i felt a most honest review. MSRP is OK, anything more is a hard sale..
Huh, a Doug Demuro video in the morning for once. THIS is gonna be a good one.
not for everyone though
@@anhvu-yp9vs Nearing midnight
Means he was up all night editing lol.
@@chickenmuffin snorting coke in his Ford gt
THISSSSSSSSS*
I love how Doug even sounded shocked to see how much that Miata sold for. That's ridiculous for that.
ide rather get a regular one and do a V8 swap at that point
Its one of those special edition ones with the special orange paint though so I guess it kind of makes sense. Honda had those special edition yellow Type Rs and they were going for almost 50-80k out the door cause yellow paint so there you go, modern car industry/market for you.
🍊
@@damienlee1165 yeah, it's the 30th anniversary edition btw
Yes but Feb 2022 a base model Pontiac Aztek went for $10K. I'm a big Aztek fan and it was a beaut in bright yellow but base, base, base. Fully equipped would have Versatrak AWD, leather, heated seats, sunroof, trailering provision, CD changer, Rally edition (GT if it was an '01) and the beloved head-up display. Even then a dealer will sell it for $4K to $6K, defining top dollar.
Imagine thinking in the 1980's that one day a new Honda Civic would have 315hp.
@Nomen Clature In a car that weighs less than 14 kilos, 110hp makes that a rowdy car.
and imagine thinking it would look so close to an Accord as to be indistinguishable, and be this big/heavy... and and and
@@Cedrickr the new Civic looks like a sport back version of the 1998 Honda Civic Coupé. It's great!
@Nomen Clature 110 is crazy power in a miata 🤣
or that it would have almost 14 inch brakes, bigger than the originals wheels.
I have to say I really love this car. I think this thing driving at you head on will look pretty mean given its stance and widebody. And you can't deny there is something so special and iconic when you see a white type R with the red interior and aluminum shift knob. Its crazy how well these cars hold their value too.
If only they came out with a two door coupe version.. that would be an instant tuner
It’d sell like hot bread
They could've made the new integra the 2 door type r but nope
Yarmox: Yes. Less doors make all the difference. /s
@@rogergeyer9851 well they do you cuckit user, makes the car handle differently due to rigidity and shorter wheelbase. Not to mention its an actual sports car then
@@13bulletclip no it wouldn't. The proof is the fact that they canned the civic coupe in general, the accord before that, and the fact that the only people who like these are 12-19 years old and can't afford one or old and broke and never want to buy a new car but always hoping to buy something used for 5 grand.
Kind of annoying when a reviewer keeps the car in a stiffer suspension mode, then complains about the stiffness. THERE'S A COMFORT MODE, for a reason...The Type-R has one of, if not THE, largest adjustment ranges for the suspension. If he were to just pop it down into comfort mode, it'd smooth out all the little bumps and road imperfections. My father's first comment when I first drove him around in my 2023 Type-R was just how much smoother it felt compared to my previous 2020 Civic Si (in regular non-sport mode).
The thing with the styling is - there are plenty of people (myself included) who loved the absolutely insane styling of the old one. It was mad as a box of frogs, and that's what people liked about it. BUT. They sold a lot of them. A LOT of them. And now all the people who wanted that - well, they have one! So if the new one was the same - nobody would buy it - because they already have one! So I do agree the new styling will sell better, but not because it's actually better (it's not), but because all the fans already got what they wanted, and now Honda are trying to hit a slightly more moderate market.
The real test will be in 5 years time. Which model will have higher resale value? My money is on the mad one.
I very much like you analysis! That’s how I feel about this new car, it’s a basic civic with an auto zone spoiler
I’ve never heard of mad of a box of frogs, that’s hilarious
@@08vtec6 Sounds British.
100%. Each Civic model/mark looks nothing alike. This one's the ugliest ever.
I doubt it fd2 dc5 dc2 ek9 those are the best type rs and none of them look ugly like the fk8 and those are the ones that are worth major coin now
I really loved this type R, and I have been going to dealerships and also getting the run around at other places with crazy $40k mark up to the point I rather just keep my 2017 370z. Dealerships really ruin the car enthusiasts' dreams of affordable sports cars.
I think you meant "Dealerships really ruin EVERYTHING" I got you
19:32 I'd like to make a small correction about torque steer. Torque steer is caused by an imbalance in the lengths of the drive axles because the transmission is on one side of the engine. That's why torque steer isn't random, it will go in the same direction every time. Force is transferred differently through different length axles and as Doug says, the problem is on higher HP fwd cars.
That's not totally true, engineers compensated for the difference in length by using a different thicknesses of the axles.
Not simply higher power cars but high torque cars. You can have higher power cars where the torque can be manipulated throughout the rev range to reduce the effects, and increase power by raising the rev limit.
Torque steer in essence, is the toe variation when torque is applied (either engine torque or brake torque). FWD cars usually have a suspension geometry that's prone to torque steer. But yes, unequal length drive shafts would cause an imbalance on the torque each wheel receives, so the toe variation is different between the wheels, which would make the car veer to one side. Manufacturers that really worry about the handling of their cars, usually try to make different suspension geometries to mitigate that issue, something Ford did on the MK2 Focus RS
Your reply is interesting. I have an older 07 Civic type r I think because it's naturally aspirated I don't get talk steer problems As you said, maybe how the gearbox is configurated to the front wheels. But if you drive a ford with a turbo like an ST, it's terrible??
no matter how you dress it up its still a honda...
You're absolutely right about it gaining weight, unfortunately that's a biproduct of modern interior amenities, safer chassis design and safety systems, which is why I'll continue to drive 80s-2000s shitboxes... also because I'm broke and that's all I can afford.
I hear you on the 80s etc shitboxes. Something about not being able to see over the hood prevents me from driving anything new these days. Love the low to the ground feel those older Hondas have.
@@23ofSeptember exactly this, whenever i drive a newer car it's like it's entirely disconnected from the road, it lowers your vigilance and allows you to drive much faster without realizing how fast you're going, in this one way it's less safe cause you're less aware and a crash at those speeds will kill you even with all that modern equipment
88-2000 was Honda's Golden Years. I did like the RSX-S tho. rarely see those on the road anymore for some reason, idk? I had a 92 eg civic hatchback with a k20 rsx-s motor in it. that thing was so peppy. had major torque steer as doug described. also tuned ecu so that the Vtec kicked in early at 4,500 rpm. car was amazing to drive
@@DMSBrian24 It just feels like they have to tick too many boxes nowadays. More rear legroom so lets make it a "hatch" or huge crumple zones and bulky info-tainment systems.
Ha-Ha-Ha!!!
"it looks like it was designed over the phone" I'm dying 😂
Another thorough, detailed review. Even when I strongly disagree with a comment or conclusion, I still appreciate the serious effort Doug makes on these reviews.
I’ll say it… I liked the big Wing 😂
Excellent review as always, Doug. I personally liked how the over stylized outgoing Type R looked.
Doug's cool and all but I'm not taking style advice from him lol. He's been dressing like a dad since he was a teenager.
@@andruboine Right? Nice type R btw. Us type r owners gotta stand our ground with these new ones😂
@@andruboine lol you nailed it!
Yeah the old style from 2017-2021 was so much better than this lmao
Totally agree.
That stitching really provides that extra performance I was looking for
I love the look for the old type r and the new type r. I don’t think either are an inferior look. Honda did a great job with both designs
U like fake vents all over the car?
@@tacticaltactability Ngl I kinda wish they didn’t do that. It’s cool and all but I wish they were actually intake placements.
your brain and eyes are broken
@@tacticaltactabilityif it looks great and drives great who cares?
@@tacticaltactabilitythe only fake vents are the back ones. Man I can really tell who doesn’t own any of the cars and like to talk crap.
I miss the Grand Tour tent, if it was still there, Jeremy would show this car and say that if he had the old one he would feel suicidal, and Hammond would say “who do we know who has one” and the camera will cut to May
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I love how Doug is just roasting 10th gen type r lovers
Imagine your car being called ugly by Doug... Man, you'll never recover from that humiliation.
@@alfred0621 Well, he also owns cars that he calls ugly, but for those cars, they were part of the charm.
I agree with doug
@@alfred0621 he wrote an article about how the Jeep Liberty (my car) is the ugliest redesign in automotive history. and honestly i agree 🤣 still love my car tho
10th gen looks better than this
Ugly? I liked the old one! I almost bought one if it was actually a $15k better car than the equivalent Focus ST at the time.
Old one is too gaudy. Also it made every cop in 100 miles be on your ass.
@@lukasg4807 Yeah, I’m still in my mid 20’s and want something a little obnoxious. I didn’t look at Golf R because I didn’t like the styling. I really wanted a Nitrous Blue Focus RS but they were like MSRP with 20k miles 18 months ago.
Bro, your videos are great. If I have to watch a car video, it's always yours, and I do that daily. But the best part is playing them at night. Your videos help me sleep, so whenever I'm not sleepy, I watch your videos to get some sleep. Thanks for that. But that doesn't mean they're boring or bad; they're the best. It's just me.
Am I really the only one who actually liked outgoing model styling more ? :D Maybe it was overstyled but hey, its proven now that it wasn’t much (if at all) slower than this one and in my opinion that fact allows it to look like race car :D
No you’re not. I liked it too. I thought some of the venting should have been functional but I thought it was very distinctive and Japanese. And it definitely wasn’t boring. I kind of miss it
I didn't like it at first, but like a lot of designs, it grew less offensive and I actually really like it. I'm not sure which I like more, the new one or the old one.
I lot of people like it. Also I think age has a lot to do with it. Doug is at the age where he couldn't appreciate the styling of the outgoing model.
Pretty sure the target audience for that styling was kids under 25. Anyone over 25 driving that just looks cringy
@@goenitzlopez2076 I would say you fine through until late 20 even early 30s. This new one though, it looks boring as hell and looks like just another Accord tbh.
I liked the styling of the old one more
I actually liked the aggressive styling of the previous model, and I don’t like the front end of this new one, but the previous gen was a step up from the prior civics that looked like speed bumps…
"aggerssive" guess thats a very subjective term, the back looks bulbus far from aggressive
Pov : you are 12 years old
@@guycha0s380 pov: you dont have taste
@@GlANNlS pov : you're a ricer
some people think Whoopi Goldberg is attractive, to each their own I guess. I bet you're a huge Fast and Furious fan
One more comment! This is IMO the best looking generation since the 6th gen. Keeping it simple, and to the point. I understand many will disagree...but that goes for every new/old generation that's been released.
I really like the 8th gen and they revved to the moon but this is by far the most gorgeous
@@mrprincemusicandgaming 8th gen is my favorite by far.
Euro 8th gen 😎
IMO you have bad taste.
@@hyphydan IMO you smell awful
That lawn mower comparison was something 😬🤣🤣
Ha! Hey I gotta admit, I've had my Honda lawnmower for over 10 years and still kicking!
Wait a few years for the exhausts to rust out and it'll sound like a lawnmower too.
i LOVE that cargo cover!!!! Finally, a cargo cover that you don't need to remove to fully utilize the cargo space. Especially if you drop the rear seats. Everything before this, you needed to take out some heavy rolled up bulky bar or a fuzzy plastic clam shell. The fact that you don't have to store some awkwardly shaped and often times heavy item to fully utilize your cargo space if you aren't using it, and still have the ability to hide your cargo when you want to is an absolute game changer. That is an innovation that needs to be on every hatch equipped car from here on out. BRAVO Honda!
I have an insight and know the struggle
As a Golf R owner, I liked the fact that the old Type R had an over the top design. It stood out. It was different than its competition. This one, loses most of that.
Fake big Lamborghini vents on a performance car was so hideous on the last gen
Also last gen looked like a wrx sti
I love my new 2022 Honda Civic SI. I also prefer my interior over the type r. One more thing I like my spoiler much more the type R. The rear spoil on the type R looks like it's after market. But I do like the hood the air induction.
Same, I have the Canadian SI so I pretty much have all of the equipment too, though I admit the Type R's seats could be nice. Not that I have any problem with the SI's seats but these look a bit more fancy.. and I wouldn't say no to the extra power either, but definitely not for $17k more lmao
People is crazy I really think the prior civic gen including the Type R was waaay better looking and way less bland this look like a jetta with an after market spoiler on in it
👆👆Thanks for the feedback,
Expect more video very soon send a directiy message I have something for you(🎁🎉🎉🎁)
Ford Bronco should take notes for under-the-hood packaging.
Damn this thing looks good in that opening shot. It's such a throwback to 90's JDM styling.
Sooooo much better looking than that FK8 imo. Probably best looking FWD car out right now besides the newer Lexus ES.
It would be cool so see with low profile after market wing risers. Almost flush with the hatch and further back. I’m sure they will be made by some company eventually.
APR is on it probably on it as we speak
Does a front-wheel-drive compact really need that much downforce?
@@bwofficial1776 yes otherwise it will oversteer in high speed corners
@@bwofficial1776 look up what TCR cars look like and you’ll see they all have a big wing
@@javierrosadojr.6379 you won’t see gains with fwd wing unless you’re going 100mph+ which will almost never happen
Yes! More media outlets need to start judging these cars on the dealer markup price and not on the list price.
The darker shade of the floor mats compared to the carpet is driving me nuts lol
Big entertainment screens in cars is a trend I wish would die out already
I like how he makes CERTAIN to point out how the addition of red stripes to he rear seat stitching are at LEAST great for performance!
Wish they'd make a 2 door hatchback version once again.
Doug the type of guy to say, I'm going to take a tinkle.
Doug the type of guy*
@@groundedgaming
Edited for you ✨️
Doug the typa nigga*
@@paulie-Gualtieri. thank you! But it's not for me. It's the original. The one you had was the proper grammar one edited by Doug in a Kia SUV mocking how he could speak into a mic to the back seat passengers
In Greece has 43.252 euro but with taxes and full accessories the price goes to 69.900 euro or 76988 $
I think the profile of the old type r is better looking, because this new one has a giant front overhang. The inset bonnet makes it look worse
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The rear of the old type r was horrible but I agree the front of the new one isn’t as good looking.
3:57
Doug: "It's the truth"
10th gen Type R owners: "No, it's your truth"
Doug not bringing up the retro EK9/DC2 style type R gauges in sport mode is depressing. That is soooooooooooooo cool!!
I must be one of the only guys that actually likes the look of the 2017-18 type r's lol especially in black or blue. 🖤 💙
If i could find a clean used one under 40xxx in mileage and price. I'd hop on it.
Yep that design is smaller and it actually suits type R but previous gen civic is pass though
I really do miss those performance shifting lights from my 2012 Si ...a real nice "gimmicky" touch., but once you have it you really appreciate it :)
I really disagree about the styling, especially the rear wing - this one looks like someone took a Civic Si (or really an Accord) and slapped an aftermarket spoiler on it. The supposed "overstyling" of the previous model at least looked like there was a consistent design concept. I know this one will be more popular among those who like the idea of stealthy performance where you can't tell what it's capable of just by looking at it, and I don't think it looks awful by any means, but my only real problem with the old one was that so many of the vents and cutouts were non-functional. If they had kept the styling similar and booted the unnecessary parts or just replaced them with actual air intakes, I would be a bigger fan of the car overall. At least it seems like it performs up to expectations for the Type R brand because it doesn't really look the part to me.
You could look at the red badge on the back to know its performance, or the massive wing staring you in the face
This is what a Civic Type R has always been since the EK9. A simple, understated track car with a few minor but meticulous adjustments and modifications. A lot of people don’t realize that the Civic Type R was never as insanely designed as the FK8 in prior generations, because we didn’t get a Type R outside of the JDM until the FK8. People who saw the Civic Type R before the 10th generation release know that it was never an overstyled car, that’s not what it was supposed to be.
doug is roasting the old type r so much lol
I think the most underrated comparison people aren’t making is between the cost of this type R (with the markup) and the TLX Type s. It’s also a Honda, it’s faster, nicer inside and out, and is a true luxury car. Yes it may not be the same track weapon as this, but at 55 grand for the Type S, and 60-75 for this Type R… I’d go to the Acura dealer asap.
The Acura has zero “track prestige” though
Cooler colors too in my opinion. Boost blue and sonic gray are alright but I’ll take the tiger eye Pearl and that royal blue over those anyday
Neither cars are winning many drag races though; the CTR would take the ILX's cookies on a race track, or mountain pass - that's all that matters to buyers of such a vehicle.
Nah atp just buy a tesla
I think giving it a 6 for value is being pretty generous for the fact its probably going to be marked up so much. Especially when you can get an Elantra N for less than $40k OTD which is, IMO, at least 90% as good. I guess it just depends if you go by MSRP or actual asking prices.
Why do dealers often mark up prices on new cars nowadays?
@@joshbacon8241 🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑
@@joshbacon8241 High demand for new cars, especially "special" ones and low inventory.
@@Roflcakes88 Yes, and they need to maintain at least _some_ profit margin to make up for the fewer sales from the limited inventory. After all, they are in business to make money...
Do you consider resale value when evaluating a new cars value? The N won't hold a candle to to the R when they're 3+ years old.
Should have commented on the Nordschleife time, 7mins 44 seconds is the same as the Pagani Zonda c12s … not bad for a fwd hot hatch, it should be at the top of the list mate.
The outgoing Type R looked like someone designed it over the phone 😂 definitely had that “look at me” factor throughout its entirety
Look at me Hector.
@@engineergaming4399 kid named finger
11th generation looks like a regular sedan with wings lol. The 10th generation looks like a racing car.
@X XL who tf play forza? weirdo.. lol
With fake ass vents
@@EldePHX idgaf. It still looks like a racing car.
@@Prime-nf5yy are you 12?
@@garytryan are you 60?
Comments on the pricing are spot on. I made some calls to local Honda dealerships in the Atlanta area and all of them are tacking on 20K-28K on top of MSRP. At that price I doubt Honda will move the volume they want to keep this Type R idea alive, which is really sad.
The base price is high already, but depending on markup this car could end up the same as the MSRP of a nicely equipped 2023 Audi RS3, and that car is on another planet compared to a Civic
@@993mike just curious, no dealer's markup on those new RS3?
@@993mike If a Civic is being marked up over 20k, what makes you think Audi will sell an RS3 at MSRP? Lol
i remember in 2020 i was going to buy a type r , and the mark up was at 15k , i walked across the street and bought a tacoma instead
yeh for sure makes no sense at all to buy this car for more than $40k
Manufacturer's need to put a halt to the Dealer mark-up's. Unfortunately, there are those that will pay the obscene prices.
I love how threatened Doug is by the FK8. lmao Love mine. The perfect car for me.
At LEAST the old wing looked 'factory', even if it was a huge eyesore. The new one is easier to overlook, but when you DO, it sort of looks like an aftermarket spoiler that someone just bolted on the trunk themselves?
that wing did not look factory at all, that's why ppl keep roasting it till this day. It's the kind of wing a 16 yr old would've copped from ebay and threw on their beater civic or accord.
I preferred it
I liked the factory wing on FK8 but I think it would fit better if it was a saloon car, like the FD2 Civic Type R has. It has a wing that fits the design of the FD2 gen very well.
They should do a touring version with no wing or 3 exhaust tips but the same engine, wide body and suspension.
yea this wing looks fucking awful if by some unfortunate turn of events I ever found myself in possession of one of these overpriced pieces of horse shit I would immediately rip it off
🏁🏁Doug is the type of guy that goes into a restaurant and asks can I order at the drive thru 😂
😂
Lol I’m dead 😵
I can see him looking up at the waitress and saying, "Allriiiiight! Lets talk appetizers."
@@SSJBart-jb5dw 😂
Last week I traded my beautiful red 2022 Honda Civic Sport for the 2024 Civic Sport Hatchback with CVT. The dealer had one Type R there and it was beautiful. I really wanted to get it instead but I was held back by my inability to driver a manual. The Civic Type R is definitely going to be my first manual in a year or two.
No more monkey laughter when he cracks a good one?!
Doug is the kind of guy that brakes my heart.
I have a 21 type R and I LOVE IT. I actually bought this one instead of the 23 because I do not care for the style of the new one. It looks like an accord to me. Part of the reason I have always wanted a Type R is because of the badass body design, so I was extremely disappointed when I saved for years to get a new Type R off the lot and then seen this new 23 Type R design. It doesn’t look like a sports car to me at all.
While I understand Honda wanting to change the style drastically, but they should have given this one a completely different name because it looks nothing like a Type R.
Have you seen a 1997 civic type r? Ek9? It’s not aggressive at all. This new FL5 matches it’s original civic more.
11:09 why’d he grab the shift knob like that 😳
Forgetting about everything else for a second, that dash is gorgeous. 10:54
I thought he was next to a lowered Range Rover for a minute... It looks enormous.
Funny! I can see that now
I like the older version more.
I think the previous civic was pretty cool!
“Designed over the phone” I’m literally in tears 😭😭😭😭
Only issue I had with the previous Type R was the large amount of fake vents around it
I keep seeing comments like this which makes we wonder if y’all ever actually seen a Type R in person the only fake vents are the 2 in the back and you can cosmetically do something with them.
This car has just been announced in the UK and it's retailing at £47k so about $38.5k at todays rate but I don't think that dealers are allowed to mark-up like they do in the States. All the reviews here are much more favourable so I wonder if they are set up differently. The steering has come in for criticism in US reviews especially when compared to the FK8 and maybe the ride but here they say the steering is superb and although the ride is obviously firm it's well rounded off. All reviewers say it's well worth the £47k and is probably the best hot hatch of all time. Top Gear have awarded it Car of the Year!
I think you have your FX rates muddled up. £47k in the UK is the same as $57k. The £ is stronger than the USD, so £1 buys more $.
@@kevincockburn7805 yeah, that was daft.
Honestly i think i like the look of the fk8 better.. the new one is kinda shaped like a pug or something… to bulky at the front and too stubby at the back lol. I will say however the interior is an absolute upgrade over fk8 hands down. But maybe when body kits and stuff comes out i will like it more
Isn't the fk8 the one with the bulky short front? The fl5 kinda narrow like the accord but it has a wider body obviously. Both cars don't much of a difference in the rear except the fk8 is taller due to the fastback design.
the new one is a strange looking car
@@ii_dynasty nah i think i dont like it because the front is too long… reminds me of the acura integra redesign where it was too bulky and long and not at all sporty looking… they keep trying to throw in soccer mom factors in cars meant for tracking and all.
here we are 8 month later.. no dealer mark ups. Even the Integra Type S.. no mark ups. Thanks for the review as always.
It has markup still
I personally love how the old type r looks
I would delete the spoiler immediately upon delivery of one. Kinda like how Porsche did with the 911R Seems like a decent car! Nice work on this review Doug.
I have an FK8 and I love it so much more than the new type R. I think they made it look so boring now. Makes me appreciate my 2018 more.
You sir are much appreciated.
i agree with you
I agree I love my fk8, gets complimented all the time
22:05 LIKE THATS WHAT YA DO *nyaooooooomm*- civic type r
Love your reviews man, keep up the good work. I want one of these so bad but the markups are insane right now, my nearest dealer here in Florida was asking 70k. Has anyone ever told you, you remind them of Quentin Tarantino? Lol.
This cars are trash
Love the old school look with the interior, the red carpeting is impractical but it pays homage to the original EK9
I actually prefer the old Type R's wing. The spoiler on the new car looks too aftermarket for my tastes.
I prefer it over the old but I see where you're coming from
I was so happy when I seen that you did a review on this car Doug! Finally.