Just How Much Better Are Weightlifters Than CrossFitters? Fraser vs Lu Xiaojun
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 25 июл 2024
- www.weightliftinghouse.com/sh...
Disclaimer, I genuinely have the utmost respect for Elite CrossFitters.
00:00 - Intro
01:16 - Stats in Question
02:47 - Stats in Context
04:52 - Back to CrossFit
10:00 - A Fairer Comparison
12:17 - Conclusion
13:12 - Outro 
Спорт
![Cordae - Saturday Mornings (feat. Lil Wayne) [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/z2GYJua09F0/mqdefault.jpg)
Leave us a cheeky algorithm spikenning 'like' and 'comment'
Shots fired
Cf are muppets !
The actual heaviest snatch on the women side of the games was actually 202lbs by 15 year old in the teen division
Spikenning? Is that German or Dutch
I think CF has done more for WL than WL has ever done for itself
Funny cause its true haha
So true! Before I started Crossfit, I couldn't care less about weightlifting... now I watch it all the time, watch world championships online, etc....Crossfit has introduced the discipline to a whole new audience. And as with anything, once you try something, you can really appreciate watching the best in the world do it!!!
Though it is fun to see how far weightlifters could take it if they could have more than 3 attempts, Lasha would still take his time to break his own records xD so he can get the prizes.
Absolutely
100%. I did weight lifting only for 5 years just to make sure I could safely do the movments before getting into crossfit
Gommaar here from wod_science. Great video. Thanks for the perspective and nuance. All the things you mentioned in this vid are entirely correct.
I'm with you, the only reason I know anything about weightlifting is because I got into CrossFit. I loved watch the CrossFit Games and I loved watching the Olympics. Best of both worlds!
As this video shows, if you're into CrossFit you don't know anything about weightlifting.
love your videos and this is exactly the question I had asked myself many times
Picking a choosing stats is the way of the world these days unfortunately. Great video 💪
Was waiting on this video!!
Great video as always.
Nice video! Thanks for the great content.
Crossfitters are basically jack of all trades, master of none, similar to those competing in multiple disciplines at once in athletics, like heptathletes and decathletes, from which they probably got their inspiration for their sport.
And the biggest difference between heptathletes, decathletes and crossfit athletes is that the former 2 has the Olympics to aim for which is much more prestigious/has more history and tradition and therefore attracts overall far superior athletes.
@@CatNerfer3000 Even so it's still a million times more respected than the crossfit games. One Olympic Gold is worth an infinite number of CF games championships
@@CatNerfer3000 Same with Crossfit, the only difference is the Olympics is universally respected, crossfit pittied, made fun of or just unknown to the general public.
One CrossFit gold though is much more profitable than an Olympic gold
@@chrisdawson9312 depends greatly on your nation. For example, Kuo received approximately 1.2m for her gold.
Great video Seb! The only point I think is missing is that at the last CF Games the weight stoped climbing once there was only one athlete left or if anyone else could lift the weight. In the woman's case, I think Tia and Ani both stoped at 200 and it's fair enough to say that it was pretty close to their 1 RM. On the man's side through, I think Malheiros could have gone for 2 or 3 more weight increases with no problem.
I think he covered that, and it is a good point. But he also pointed out that if WL comps had the same rules (20-30 sec window, multiple attempts allowed), they would lift even more than they do. When you only have 3 chances, and only 1 lift per chance, your weight decisions are much more cautious.
CrossFit has improved in weightlifting over the past decade. It seems like they’re still improving
Exactly. IMHO the most important thing Crossfit is bringing to the table in regards to strength sports is: How good can you be without specializing?
And the answer is, pretty darn good, given that the foundation of Crossfit *isn't even the strength/weightlifting component but the cardio conditioning*. Yeah, they can lift reasonably heavy weights, but what makes these athletes elite Crossfit athletes isn't the weightlifting. There are quite few regional level athletes snatching 150 or more and clean and jerking 180 or more, but they're not good enough in what matters the most.
@@kblkbl The answer is: nowhere close to specialists. It depends on your point of reference. If you compare crossfitters to general public, they are fit as fuck. If you compare them to the specialists, they are a joke.
@@wiadroman it’s not really a joke unless they train as much as the specialists. I’d say they do pretty damn well considering they only really touch on weightlifting as compared to an oly lifter who does only oly every day for hours.
@@hittman1412 You do realize that when you say "it’s not really a joke unless they train as much as the specialists" you only confirm that specialization beats generlization. If you still don't understand that you contradict yourself, here, in plain English: crossfitters can only become as good as specialist when they stop doing what they are doing and start doing what specialists are doing, ergo, when they stop being crossfitters and become specialist.
@@wiadroman I assume they are rational athletes, they look at which sport they have the best potential, a specialist sport or a generalist one like crossfit that demands that you are good at a lot of things, but not great at just one thing and hopefully every athlete can be happy with their choice and so on.
Another well made and correctly informative video.
Those who hate on you for this aren’t thinking past their egos.
No manscape?
Really like this type of video keep then coming!
That matt fraser video literally was what made me decide to do weightlifting.... just shows how much more other sports are with advertising I guess
Loving the content!
Very informative. Thanks for the deep analogy. It's always going to be a subjective comparison unless CF ever decides to implement weight classes . Weightlifters in the lighter classes 61kg to 73kg and female 49 to 71kg produce a lot more robi points or Sinclair.
crossfit got me into barbell, so even if i dont do crossfit anymore i will always be grateful for it (and enjoy watching it)
Why don’t you do CrossFit anymore?
Do Crossfit man it changes up the game so much and you have so much fun with it
@@rsfarris86 i really enjoyed it but found myself looking forward most to barbell exercises and focusing on those numbers the most. so i opted to train for more specificity (also fewer numbers to keep track of lol)
I still do CrossFit and I’m nowhere near the strongest person. But I enjoy the Olympic weightlifting the most. I enjoy the technique and skill work with the barbell the most. Also, most of my coaches are Olympic weightlifters by trade that do CrossFit on the side. They do a lot of weightlifting competitions and travel for them too. So I’m not being taught just by basic CF coaches. We have time slots during the week where we have straight up weightlifting only classes.
@@jasonberger9 ahh ok gotcha, glad it’s not because of injury or anything. And yes…so many numbers to keep track of haha
Brilliant journalism - keep it lit, Seb...
It's impossible to really compare, but just describing 19% decreases at various activities gets the point across pretty well. Usain Bolt's 9.58 would turn into an 11.83, which won't win many HS meets. Lasha's mind blowing 488 kg would become 395 kg, ie Clarence Kennedy could beat him handedly with a best training total of 415 kg. Clarence is awesome, but no where near the strongest weight lifter of all time.
Clarence Kennedy is one of the strongest people in the world??
@@chrisgeorge84 probably not but he is elite level for sure
@@M4NOK oh he most certainly is. I don’t think there are more than 40000 people stronger than him in every single country in the world(195). Which would put him in the 1 percent of the 1 percent.
@@chrisgeorge84 real weird criteria there. Clarence is strong AF, but he's not comparable to the super heavyweight sized dudes. He's a very impressive athlete though.
@@drewe51 you compared him to a HS track athlete?
Edit: that was just to put it into perspective.
As someone who does crossfit, this was an awesome video
I think Wodscience made a post clarifying their point, part of which was that this is WAY closer than crossfit athletes have been in the past, and the progression is great as it means more people might get into weightlifting.
cool video and i hope cf ppl dont get too mad over it!
Nice graph Seb showing that strength (muscle growth too) grows logarithmically
I like the way you did this... the comparison for me is running... there's years of training difference between COMPLETING a 10K and COMPETING in a 10,000 meters race. That being said CF athletes are wonderful non-specialists!
One thing to remember is that crossfitters are only tested internally and not by WADA-sanctioned agencies.
Also algorithm
Yeah top crossfitters are super juicy in a way that still-juiced but tested (and therefore more careful/different drugs) weightlifters can't be.
really you just need to emphasize body weights to lift weight ratio, and focus on that practical progress is not linear but a logarithmic function where diminish of return plays a larger and larger role at higher end and no need to mention other lesser factors. 15% of difference in weight might as well be night and day. It's like how much effort you need to study to ensure you score 85 out 100 on a exam, and how much effort you need to ensure 99%. is it 15% extra study time? Intuitively everyone would know that's far from truth.
But Mat was a weightlifter before CF. He weightlifted for 10 years prior to moving on to CF.
An important point and true (to a greater or lesser extent) of quite a few successful CF lifters.
True and was never close to making the olympics
@@iainrobin6314 exactly average
But the 5 time fittest man on earth bollocks 😂
@@pauldavies7251 Fraser was the junior national champion then broke his back in 2 spots. Olympic lifters are no where near as fit. They matched up a crossfitters with a 2x Olympic weightlifting medalist in Grace. That’s 30 squat cleans and jerks. The crossfitters crushed the Olympian.
@@normcmiller Good point - it's not just specialists in movement but specialist in rep range i.e. 1RM. Training primarily for volume is fundamentally different to OLY.
Awesome video! 2 take aways: Everyone is amazing. Everyone makes everyone else look bad.
I would also love to see an analysis of how top cross fitters compare to elite level runners and swimmers.
Im not a runner but grew up a competitive swimmer. They.. suck
It would be far worse. Their swim and run is awful. They are much better comparatively in weightlifting. The top finishers normally have a short stocky build that is great for lifting, it is not good for running or swimming.
The winner of this years swim event, Jonne Koski, competed on a national level as a youth (quit at the age of 16), others claim to be good at a college level before they switched to crossfit. So that would be some of their levels, talented but not elite. I imagine if they were, they would have stuck to running or swimming which are not niche sports.
@@klasholmertz7351 Add in the fact that training for so many other activities just straight up makes them worse at it too. Eddie Hall was a national level swimmer when he was younger. Now(ish) he pulled a WR deadlift, but sucks at swimming.
they would get destroyed.
Great video
The CF athletes had a time domain to hit a lift (20 seconds)
Yeah, I was thinking about that point, too. VERY different parameters, hard to get an apples-to-apples comparison. (Not that even the lightest olympic WL-er couldn't have sleep-walked through the event ... Horses for courses.)
"if elite crossfitters moved to weightlifting" - that reinforces the point about the specialists vs generalists discussion. Performance differences are similar to the pentathlon / triathlon athletes compared to swimming or running specialists. Number wise there is "only 20% of difference", non training people don't realise that "only 20%" is a yawning gap in athletic performance.
Differences in athletic performance are almost logarithmic. Depending on your weight, sex, natural ability and experience level you could easily go from a 70kg sntach to a 100kg snatch in
But CrossFit athletes aren't good generalists. They're shit at every discipline despite taking huge quantities of drugs. Even elite CrossFit "athletes" get destroyed by club level competitors in every sport.
Do you have personal lifts/sessions on your patreon? Would love to something like
Great video
Great vid
For the algo: Sika bois already covered this
But did they do it with a belt strangely placed on the table?
I liked this video more.
Thanks for telling us... potato 😑🤦♂️
I'm a crossfit coach and completely agree with this video 👍🏻 good stuff bro, keep lifting💪🏼
Where can I get that belt?
Not even a comparison worth making. However I am happy that you did.
Finally, someone that makes sense. That graphic is comical. I spent 1K hours trying to add 1kg to a PR. When you're close to your genetic potential, it's going to take 10x the effort to maintain and 100x the effort to make gains.
A lot of people don’t know, but Mat Fraser was an Olympic weightlifting competitor close to competing in the olympics earlier on before an injury.
On a similar discussion, i'd love to see Halfthor Brjorsson compete in olympic weightlifting in order to compare him with Lasha. That's probably happening in a parallel universe.
Only if Lasha goes to WSM.
Martins would be better, his squat is amazing and he seems lighter/more athletic than other strongmen.
@@MaestroJericho and he actually practices snatch and C-Jerk
One big factor, The men's snatch at the CrossFit Games this year was elimination style. They stopped at 138kg(305lbs) because he was the last athlete. I think he could have snatched as much as 147kg for 1RM if there was another competitor to match him up to that threshold
Agree with most comments but not with "oly lifters only had three lifts" - they could choose their weights!! Malheiros had to snatch, like, 8 times before they gave him his heaviest weight, and who says that was his max for the day?
Also, it's safe to assume that among the roughly half million "amateur" crossfitters (2018 Open) there are some with better lifts but they might not have enough cardio etc.
What would be interesting is a low skill barbell cycling comp pitting oly and power and crossfit lifters together. theres a great youtube vid of a 5 minute max rep bodyweight backsquat from the floor. What about Grace or Isabel WODs. Eddie Hall has the WR in Isabel (30 snatch at 60kg) in around 50s I think - would love to see oly lifters try that (after some cardio training) - would be a lovely race!!
I would never have touched a barbell in my life if I hadn’t tried CrossFit. It’s the strength and weight lifting aspect that now keeps me going…..
Cool story bro
I was the same. Basically only came to CrossFit for the lifting, despised every second the wod. So after a year of that Ive just done weightlifting for a few years and it’s great. If you go for the lifting stay for the lifting (if your box has freestyle training sessions) ;b
Crossfit is not weightlifting...
You need compare Guilherme Malheiros. Have tou sem what he can do with the barbell?
I've never had to block someone on RUclips before. Congrats
I enjoyed that. Lots of caveats for the haters though. I agree stats can be misleading and a couple of kilos is more than you think at the end game.
Would Annie’s snatch have counted even with the rotation in the shoulders?
In olympic weightlifting, nope, no chance. That was an amazingly gutsy lift, but it would have got three red lights. CF DOES have competition standards - but no Verbot on press-outs. (BTW, Annie knows the difference. More than 10 years she and her boyfriend actually coached me on my snatch! Besides everythign else I admire about her, she's a great coach.)
Some good points on the statistics but I think you read the stats a little bit more biased to weightlifting which is understandable. I think a really good comparison with context was ranking the crossfitters and I definitely agree that placing 27th or 25th is really damn impressive for a generalist.
I also have some points on your statement that “Weightlifters would lift more if the weight would be just added 5 pounds to every lift and you could do as many attempts as you want in every weight”. In that event, they had 20 seconds window (the last lifts it was 30s) to make a lift and if they didn’t do that event was over. Also, in your video of stats in Tokyo you said that 56,7% of the lifts were made in Olympics. Pretty often they missed their first lift and in CrossFit Games you wouldn’t have a time to rest for couple minutes and try that weight again for second or third time. It would be over right away. So, saying that they had multiple attempts at one weight is kind of miss leading. You don’t see very often weightlifters miss an attempt at near maximum weight and then do it just a few seconds later…
All in all, I really liked that you brought this subject up and keep doing the work. Really nice content!
Also for comparison at Mid-Atlantic CrossFit Challenge (qualifying event for CrossFit games) athletes had 3 attempts to find their max snatch as a first event. 7 out of 40 male athletes made over 300 pounds then. Being fresh matters.
This is superb content. That was a dumb article. I am a crossfitter and the difference is massive
so we can conclude lasha would do well at the snatch in cf
LOL! He'd fall asleep from sheer boredom. But - and this is no knock on his tremendous athleticism - he also wouldn't even get to that part of a cf competition. a bazillion Burpee box jumps followed by a shuttle run - or whatever - wouldn't exactly be in his wheelhouse. Lü Xiaojun, OTOH - something tells me he'd do juuuust fine, if he actually wanted to train for cf!
Am I in sikastan????
objective review... nice
Why must we compare??
Matt Fraser also was weightlifter in his young age ;)
Too many numbers for me you stat nerd !!
Love the videos normally . Keep going 👍🏽
"please don't hate on this video... but if you do, do it in the comments section."
I laughed so hard at this
I'm so mad I'm gonna like the video ; )
I notice that a lot of crossfitters have a very loose technique in the snatch. More like a top swing against the movement of the weight rather than an aggressive pull under.
I wonder whether the lack of a press-out rule has something to do with that. You have a little more wiggle room. OR simply: We're just not all that good at it!
can this all just be provided in a tabular view? following this requires a lot of memory.
No comparison . I’m a Crossfitter. Weightlifters are on a whole nother level. They’ve spent a lifetime perfecting their technique. Cut the silliness guys.
@@davestephens3246
Good point. Mat is the rare example. We’re talking about strictly weightlifting. Overall, Crossfit is untouchable and in a league of its own.
@@davestephens3246 Mind you - and I'm a crossfitter - I'd LOVE to see someone like Lü Xiaojun take a stab at a cf workout. He might lack a bit in the cardio department - but something tells me he'd do more than just fine.
As a person coming from a country with no Weightlifting culture, Crossfit was actually a good place to know what Weightlifting was (take it with a grain of salt) and right now a lot of CF places have people training only weighlifting, because of that I really have to thank Crossfit to introduce me to the sport I love so much practicing and for having the setup i need to practice
Tottaly agree!
I do like that you're trying/kinda giving them credit for not coming in fresh to the snatch. That said, look at the 2 events preceding that last event: the snatch. The amount they moved after doing events that would probably dissolve an average human being, is just silly.
In similar fashion, the best Decathlon participants would be nowhere near the top of any of the 10 individual events. Specialization has its benefits and selects for very specific qualities and talents which in most cases are different than generalization.
That's only kinds true. Look at this years olympics where damien warners long jump in the decathlon could definitely be competetive in the pure long jump competition. Similarily Nafi Thiam who won the heptathlon could just as well be competitive in the womens high jump. It appears, that the heptathlon/decathlon favors certain kinds of athleticism, which results in some athletes being somewhat competitive in disciplines like the long jump or the high jump, while athletes will never get close to being competitive in the shot put or even the 800m/1500m.
@@eliasandradeschindler9402 I mean the heptathlon/decathlon people are generally fit fast people whereas shotput/hammer throw/discus people are usually giant fat people. Surprisingly javelin throwers don't seem to be the same type of body as the other throwing sports.
Completely fair. One other thing that's a big difference is the training difference. Training to the higher variety of skills will take away from the raw capability of weight lifting. To me they aren't comparable. They are both skill but with two very distinct differences. One is raw power and technique. The other is for a greater variety of skills and strengths.
While the best weightlifters are substantially stronger than the best CrossFit athletes, the point of the stats at the end of the day was to highlight how strong our athletes are AFTER 9 brutal events
Hey Seb, could you do a video explaining why people get stuck with certain weights and can't progress anymore?
Cool video idea. I wish CF did more regulated events (1 mile run on track, 100 meter swim, long jump, etc) so that we could compare their performances to the world's best in more events
As a male CrossFitter I aspire to do the women"s RX. ;) No really.
Interesting, especially algorithmicaly...
The comment if you are angry segment deserves all the likes!
please send this video to angry people! and any future videos! haha so funny
Did they guy in the back move at all?
if you take as reference training session in crosfit lifter, if you do same thing on Olympic weighlifter, diference is even bigger, some Weightlifter in training session have lifted a ridiculous amount of weight, Morady has lifted more 200 kilos in training session, and another thing is that 70 or maybe 80 percent of lift in crosfit world are not valid in weightlifter world, i would like to see Tokyo juries in Crossfit event, and i think crosfit doesn't make drug test, or i'm wrong
All who qualified for the crossfit games was tested, a couple of team athletes was disqualified this year, and I think some individual from south America. There is usually a couple of games athletes each year that get caught. Their off season testing is not very extensive though I believe, a handful of the top athletes at a handful of times over the year.
There is testing but it's not as thorough as Olympic weight lifting. Most athletes are drugged (just look at the "women" lol).
@@anaussie213 100% agreed all you say, mowen look as men
Who’s that little fella in the background?
I remember James Fitzgerald highlighting the even bigger disparity between top Crossfitters and cross country athletes. He wrote that he found it odd that Crossfitters were qualifying for weightlifting nationals (at the time), but would not be able to make a high school cross country team. It just goes to show that televised Crossfit is heavily biased toward barbell training. But yeah, still much respect to the athletes.
Because the ped's they take are far more helpful in the Olympic lifts than they are for distance running.
All of them would make a high school cross country team, there are no try outs if you want to run your on the team.
awesome
Is that a backdrop or is that dude in the background just that intense?
One thing you have to consider is that in the particular 1rm snatch event Malheiros only stopped at 138kg because he was the only one to do it. If another guy made the lift they would increase the weight until one could stand as the winner. Therefore, Malheiros could do a bit more.
Nevertheless, great video!
a bit more that wouldn't be close to a weightlifter...you can't part time to be a weightlifter just as you can do the same as a CrossFit.....but a cross fit person can have some crap technique.
Who would win at equal weight? A male crossfiter or a female weightlifter?
I tried weightlifting and hated it. Technique and flexibility made it not fun for me. So I moved to Crossfit about a year later. Fast forward 5 years all I do now is weight lifting but still run and do burpees to maintain that sick pack lol
also that 305 lbs snatch was because he was the only one left, he coulve kept going
And it wasnt even on lifters...
His stated best is 308lb, so could he keep going? Maybe. Could any weightlifter at the Olympics lift more in training with unlimited lifts? Yes.
@@iOSAT totally agree. I literally was just stating he could’ve kept going but everyone else was out. No doubt weightlifters could lift more with more attempts
Matt Fraser weighs 195 which is 88.something kilos. His snatch of 142 would be put him at 20th in the snatch. That’s damn good, but he’d be like 30kg behind the best. Top 20 at the 2019 world championships with his snatch is very respetable given the lack of specialization.
He does have the advantage of having been a full-time weightlifting trainee at a national Olympic training centre. Pretty good fundamentals, no one else in cross-fit stood a chance while he was around!
People’s poor understanding of basic math is being exploited this huge difference is also like comparing a talented and untalented person.
angry zack has recently commented on impressive cross fit snatches and copious jerks
is that cheeky enough
I started focusing weightlifting back in 2013 purely because I'd started crossfit the year before and was dog-shit at the snatch. Within 6 months I'd given up crossfit and was 100% commited to weightlifting, and from what I've heard a lot of people who compete in weightlifting have similar stories, so you have to give it to crossfit for that. As much as I love weightlifting it had a really stuffy reputation when I was a kid, it was the weird weightlifting sport behind bodybuilding and powerlifting.
It's way more exiting to watch a crossfit event than a weightlifting event...
If Lu Xiaojun competed in crossfit, how would he do?
at 2:30 you got my like sir
I would say as a CrossFitter that it has progressed dramatically in technique in the past 5 years or so. The top level athletes have realized that proper movement and technical movements equal bigger power and longevity. Obviously this can’t be spoken for everyone doing CrossFit as it is in weightlifting. But the quality of lifting in CrossFit has increased.
Also tia cliar-Toomey medaled in Olympic weight lifting and won the CrossFit games in the same year
1rd for the algo
edit: also BELT
Okay, this comment section gave me hope again for humanity. Thanks guys
It's the cart before the horse. I believe most of the standout weightlifters in crossfit, either were weightlifters first, or their overall training leans more to weightlifting than the long cardio stuff they do.
Top of the line crossfitters are just like top of the line athletes in any sport. As Macho Man Randy Savage would say, "They are the cream of the crop."
Naim snatched 152.5 In Seoul Olympics. Why didn’t you mention this?
Because that wasn't the comparison. I was showing how young the sub 60kg Naim was able to snatch the best CrossFit snatch.
crossfit adopts #kickoutthepressout
The obvious difference would be lifters can focus on quick twitch muscle development while crossfitters have to focus on slow twitch training with some fast twitch movements.
So oly lifters crush the 1 rep max. But when oly lifters are faced with lifting weights in a CrossFit wod like Grace, they get destroyed by the fatigue. Jacob Hepner crushed 2x Olympic medalist Javier Mosquera in the 30 rep clean and jerk work out.
No hate, just a like! :D RUclips engagement fodder!
I really don’t get why this comparison is done over and over again just to come to the surprising conclusion that athletes who focus on very few things are better at them than athletes of a different sport whose training is a lot broader. The weights of Olympic lifters are absolutely insane, but that’s the sport. These are all athletes who dedicate every minute of their day to getting better (especially since there is a lot of money involved for top CF or Olympic athletes of some countries) but at the end of the day it’s a different sport only with shared elements. I see why the question gets raised, the comparison is still as pointless as the one between running times of football players and Olympic sprinters.
Still liked the way of approaching it, nice video