COMPARING SOUTH BEND 9" LATHE MODELS
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- Опубликовано: 19 окт 2024
- This is a TYPE STUDY of the many models or variations of the venerable SOUTH BEND 9" precision bench lathes.
I have many videos regarding SB lathes. Here are a few that are particularly applicable to this type study.
Making a Belt Guard for a South Bend 9" Lathe 306 Pt 1 tubalcain
CLEANING THE APRON ON SOUTH BEND 9" Lathe 328 tubalcain
LUBRICATING THE SOUTH BEND LATHE 342 tubalcain oiling
DELIVERY OF A SOUTH BEND 9" model C LATHE 780 tubalcain
INSPECTING the SOUTH BEND MODEL C LATHE 781 tubalcain
TUTORIAL on SOUTH BEND LATHE APRON PARTS TUBALCAIN
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I have a total of 1300 shop videos on youtube. WATCH THEM ALL!
#loganlathe#atlaslathe#clausinglathe#craftsmanlathe#emcolathe#encolathe#sherlinelathe#monarchlathe#hardingelathe
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I have a 1957 9" model a and i have to say it is one of my favorite pieces of equipment. These lathes were very well built back in the day.
I wish I would’ve seen his video before I bought my first Southbend. I thought y’all were the same and I end up buying a C with no quick change gears at all. Thanks again for your time talents and treasures.
Here I am, a nurse, never did machining in my life! Watched too many of your videos - now I have a craftsman 101.21200 lathe in my basement staring back at me. I guess I'll be making everything I have rounder and smaller for a while.
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Thanks Mr Pete it’s great to see the old photos of the Southbend machines I really enjoy the ones that I am taking care of for the next guy
Never get tired of looking at, talking about, listening, eating, sleeping, dreaming lathes.. Keep it up Mr Pete... Don
Happy new year Don
Excellent. Thank you for posting Mr. Pete. Amazing to see so many variations.
Thank you. I really enjoyed this video! Love thinking about the good old days and the machines that made the world go round back them... and still do today!
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I have the 1948 model A as pictured in the ad shown. My dad had mid 50's model A tricked out with a longer bed, and V- belt drive with16 speeds. He bought it new with loads of accessories. I believe he paid A little over $600 for the whole package. Thank you Lyle for another great video.
Awesome that you still have that machine. $600 was a lot of money that year
I have a 1939 model C .However I have an apron for it from an A. And I have watched your Vids for a few years now Mr. Pete. I bought this lathe in pieces . for $200. Had no idea what to do, or what all I had. I found your vid on servicing a SB 9". You helped me get it all together and up and running. Thanks again.
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Great explanation of the different models of the 9" South Bend lathe. I love your voice over the old ads, it sounds like a sales pitch, with the phrase "deluxe carriage apron"
Wow, thanks!
Mr. Pete, I had the basic same machine as the model A, told by South Bend it was produced in 1928. Purchased from a gentleman's estate who made model railroad engines. The difference was the flat belt was vertical off the lathe to a rocker plate 3 step pully to a unique chain drive driven by the motor, all factory. I had never seen a chain like it had , was a v shape.
The machine along with the milling attachment , tool post grinder and other tooling is now in a shop producing vintage motorcycles. I wish I was 40 years younger and had you for a neighbor. I must also say I am very proud of my 18 year old great nephew who is in the trades working in a machine shop!
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A very interesting, historical video. Thank you, Mr. Pete.
If I may, I would like to add a bit to this history. The South Bend Lathe Co. actually manufactured standard, industrial, 9-inch lathes as far back as 1914. In 1935, the first 9-inch "Workshop" lathe was presented in catalogs. This lathe was intended for individuals and small shops. It had change gears, lead screw and half-nut powered longitudinal feed, hand cross feed, and 6 spindle speeds (3 straight and 3 back-geared). In 1939, the Workshop lathe, with some upgrades, became the Model C and South Bend introduced the Model B and the Model A, which were increasingly sophisticated upgrades to the basic, Model C. It should be noted that the 1938 and 1939 advertisements shown in the video refer to the lathe shown as a Workshop lathe, not as a Model A, B, or C.
I own and use a 1935 Workshop lathe, which I purchased at an estate sale in 1975. The lathe is still in very good condition and shows very little wear. The only part I have replaced is the carriage lock bolt. The original developed a crack and failed in early Nov., 2021. Original, South Bend parts are no longer available for this lathe, so I was forced to make a replacement.
Thank you very much for that clarification
Many thanks for your time to make this video,I would love to see more like this😁please,it's information that's nearly died out and needs to be passed on😊.
Thanks again from all your followers in England,
Thank you very much
Served my apprenticeship under my father as a tool and die maker. We had a 9” Model A with the steel cabinet that came out of a school. Great lathe that was extremely repeatable and accurate and rigid for such a small lathe.
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I have a 1948 A model with 52" bed. It was shipped from the factory 3 days after my birth. I also have a 1917 15" SB with a 96 inch bed. I love by south Bend lathes! Thanks for the video!
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Not sure what it is Mr. Pete, but the video quality lately has been stellar in my opinion. Crisp and clear and great lightning. Keep up what you're doing!
Thanks
Thank you, thank you, thank you. Exactly what I was looking for.
I’m seriously considering an old South Bend lathe and this video helped me understand the differences between models.
P.
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Delightful presentation. We had SB's in high school and I now own a 13 and a 10K.
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Very good run down on this lathe and its differences based on model. Why didn't I take metal shop class as a teenager? I spent all my time in the wood shop.
I love my little 9 inch sb. Mine has the extra lever on top of the gear box and the sliding gear. Probably one of the most used tools in my shop👍
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A fantastic and most enjoyable history lesson
Even for myself I would love to have one the 9inch toolroom model A lathes in my shop . What great looking little lathe .
Yes
The model A we had in auto mechanics in high school had a maple top on it. I have a 3 1/2 foot model A with a lot of extras and love using it. These things seem to last forever. Thanks enjoy the video’s.
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I have a 1937 South bend 9C that a woman gave to me after purchasing a benchmaster milling machine from her her father apparently was a research scientist and had a lab and use the equipment to build whatever he needed tool wise I guess anyhow I noticed it when I was picking up the mill and commented on it anyway she contacted me about 9 months later asking if I was interested in it I told her I couldn't afford it at the moment and she told me to come pick it up I could have it and it's in my shop to this day
Wow, you are a lucky man
They also produced metric models going back into the forties. I OWN a model A toolroom produced in 1944. I sent it back to South Bend about thirty years ago and had the bed and carriage reground. It's very accurate..
Early last year I bought a 13 x 6 metric. Made in the late 1970s. It came with a Hardend Bed.
Best wishes for a happy and healthy new year. Take care.
I have an old 1920ish 14" lathe on cast iron legs and I have thought long and hard about building a bench to replace them. I have a very small space to work in and even now have not enough storage for what tooling I got. I love the look of the legs but the utility of a bench is appealing too.
I pretty much agree with you. You can never have enough storage
Surely if you are skillful enough to use a lathe, you are skillful enough to construct some storage that fits around the legs? Why would you bother replacing the legs, when they are already there?
Always educational and interesting Lyle.
Thanks. It appears I have the six speed 9" precision. But this guy must have bought a lot of the accessories, including collets and keyway milling attachment. Luckily, I have a friend that make drive belts and he made a new flat laced belt for me. I need to go see him again and it it shortened as it has stretched. I solved the problem for time being by made a threaded coupler to extend the tighting rod. Not perfect but it got me through. I need to check what gears I have.
Good video. I have an A that I plan on restoring. I am likely going to make pattern to upgrade it to having the taper attachment. Issue with the 9 in is that the taper attachment was integral to the 9 in. Cant just bolt it up.
What most folks don’t understand is the 2nd world war. Many folks had south bends in their home shops. Once a week you dropped your parts off at a drop point and picked up the order for next week. You worked a day shift, came home to eat dinner and then spent a few hours making parts for the war effort. This cottage industry made general purpose non precision parts freeing up space on the bigger more precise lathes.
Bryon told me about this as he watched his grand dad do this. The shear number of south bend lathes during the war was impressive. The Germans could not keep up with the shear number of US machine tools running both in factory’s and in home shops.
So while the Germans enlisted your grand pa with a ruffle at the end of the war, women and older men were running machines in the US making anything from typewriter parts to shell casings.
The contribution of US machine to the war effort was massive and never really coveted by the historians.
Thank you very much for that little history lesson. I know that Henry Ford did that back in the 20s in Michigan. Hey used the cottage industry to make model T parts.
@@mrpete222 I did not know that. Makes sense though!
A bud has a nice South Bend. His dad bought it new FOB from SB. She is a beauty, and like you, he has spent countless hours using it.
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Very nicely presented. Lots of choices.
Thank you.
I have always thought that the Atlas Craftsman was substandard to the Southbend. I don't know enough about either brand to know why and where. Your explanation helps me understand the features and differences better. My Craftsman doesn't have a quick change gearbox or reversing spindle motor. This frustrates me since I learned on Clausing Colchester industrial machines.
My Craftsman is the same class as this series of Southbend. I have the cross slide milling attachment and the collet drawbar, but no collets. There's so much backlash in my cross slide that even light milling was a failure. Without collets I also tried to hold my mill in the lathe chuck. My back gear lever won't stay in back gear forcing me to keep hand pressure on it during back gear operation.
I am anxious to complete my Leblond restoration (spring project) and finally have an industrial class machine. The Leblond was moved into my new shop January 1 along with the entire machine shop, but this is a fair weather shop. The heated shop is now exclusively for woodworking hobbies.
There is no doubt about it, the atlas is a light duty machine
I'm lucky enough to have a model C and a model A. The A is a turrent lathe, the only one I have ever seen.
I have an adapter that I made to accommodate a mini-turret table for my South Bend. Only issue is the limited travel on the compound.
Gracias por todo lo que informan y comparten, excelentes personas...
Thanks for the great explanation of the differences. It would be very helpful for buying a Southbend lathe.
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I acquired my model A in 2012. It was a '61 model with the v-belt drive, 4 1/2 foot bed. The V-belt gave you four positions, which meant 8 speeds. I never took advantage of the other speed available at the drive pulley. That would have given me 16 speeds. Great little lathe on which to learn on. I was aware of the B & C models when I was looking for a lathe, but I wanted the advantages the A came with.
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Wonderful Lyle....cheers, Paul
Interesting models for sure... Thanks for sharing ... Stay safe ...
I had a model C years ago. I remember it had a tag on it saying it was U.S. Govt property. I often wondered what they used it for.
Love your videos . You didn't reference the older 9 inch lathes like the one owned by your friend with the taper attachment that appears in some of your videos ?
Great info mrpete. Could you please do a comparison on the No. 10 & No. 10 Heavy? Thanks a bunch!
It appears my SB 9” is a “tool room” version. I have the 4 1/2 foot bed, the collet drawbar and collets, the taper attachment, QCGB, steady rest, travel rest, AND the milling attachment.
I had been looking for a lathe, pretty much of any sort, and my Pop called me from Atlanta one day. “Hey, I think I found a pretty good piece for you…”. My response on seeing pictures was “Buy it. Right now!” That was around 1995 or so, if I remember right.
I recently had the nice old guys at Grizzly pull the data card for it, it was delivered in 1945 from a machine broker to a private individual. I highly suspect that was the fellow Pop bought it from.
With a quick change tool post and some nice cutters, it still turns a mirror finish.
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I just picked up a south bend model A cabinet lathe that use to be in the local community college near me. The shop teacher who brought it home when they retired it, he was put in a home and his son just wanted it gone so he could sell the house. I got it for $100 !!! And it came with soooooooo many extras. Dude doesn’t realize what he had
Wow
Thanks for the video very interesting.
Great video Mr. Pete!! Can you do a video on how to adjust the flat belt? The belt on my 1955 model A rubs up against the gear guard when the belt is on the smallest drive pulley to the largest driven pulley. Thanks for ALL of your videos! as a shop teacher: I much appreciate you!
You need to correct the alignment of the motor pulley assembly. The shaft of the motor pulley containing the flat pulleys is not fully parallel to the headstock assembly. This angular discrepancy causes the belt to walk.
The only South Bend Lathe I ever had turned out to be an 8" I found it at a garage sale years ago. It had a 1 3/8 X8 spindle and was different in most other dimensions too! I ended up selling it after I bought my Atlas 9"
Interesting, I never did see an 8 inch south bend
Evidently the 8" lathes must be fairly rare. I haven't found much information about them at all . In face I only found one mention of them in all my research. I know it was really old, so maybe it was one of their first machines. With that strange spindle thread and the other differences it just made more sense to go with something more common. for some reason I have always been partial to Craftsman and Atlas machines, Probably because of time spent looking and drooling over machinery at the local Sears store with my Dad when I was a kid. I now have almost all the machinery that Sears ever sold, both for metal working and wood working. It does grow on you !
I bought a 1974 10k from the son of the original owner. The man's marked up wish list, PO, receipt, and South bend catalog came with the lathe. It has 1/32nd collects to 5/8. The best thing it has large dials.
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Thanks for putting this information together. I would like to have a small lathe. I find Atlas or Craftsman lathes similar to the South Bend vintage. I am leaning toward a South Bend. However, if I find a well maintained machine and 12"or bigger it may come home to roost. Al B.
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I wouldn't waste time with that little junk, it was ok in it's time but get a 13x40 size it's just right for the home hobbyist or even some job shop work. Been there done that, I try to help others not make the mistakes I made several yrs ago. Grizzly is a good source to look at styles of machines.
@@larryrobinson7492 Grizzly machines are made over seas not in the U.S.
@@sallybrokaw6124 AND.......
@@larryrobinson7492.... AND ... they don't have 70 or 80 years of wear.
@8:48 It should be "C, B, A, = Good, Better, Best"
C = Good - Base model
B = Better - Middle model with Full power feeds
A = Best - Full power feeds and Quick change gear box
First lathe I ever touched was a SB Model A in High School Machine shop 1971. They had the under drive in the cabinet.
It’s interesting that my 10L Heavy has the older single lever gearbox even though according to South Bend in 1983, when I called for parts, that it came off the line September 15th at 4:25 p.m, 1953.
Thanks Lyle. I take it that you are using your new iPhone for this, great picture but your sound levels go up and down depending if you are close or far away from it. How about you getting a lapel mike if you are going to do long shots. Regards from Australia.
Mr. Pete, could you do a like video for the Atlas lathe?
I never thought of it. But that would make a good video.
mr pete I have a question on 9" South Bend Lathes, I bought a 9" from an online estate auction up in central Illinois, It is a model C and by the serial number (34,219) it was made between 1926-1927. My question is, did the older lathe beds wider than the later ones? I have a 9" made in 1969 that I wanted to swap beds with and the width of the beds is quite different. The older lathe has a 4' bed and has all it's hand scraping still, no wear. Do you know when they made the change?
Sorry, do not
i own a model B, but i never saw a brand name on it, i didn`t expect that its imperial wen i bought it. it was fount in a east German barn and im missing most gears. ther are only the gears for metric screws
My first lathe was a model B 9 in, finally got it from my neighbor built in 1946, set in a barn for 30 years, I did a total tear down and clean job and converted it to a model A and still learning how to run it, its so quite when running you can't hardly hear it
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Lyle, his was an interesting video. My old 10-inch South Bend was built in 1911 as a treadle lathe, but a motor was added (so the treadle mechanism is long gone). It _was_ sold through Sears-Roebuck in _1934_ for some reason, so Rose at South Bend agreed with me (back in the '90s) that it must have sat in a back room being used by someone at South Bend for some reason. The record card/sheet didn't show why it sat around for so long before being sold/shipped. It is Serial Number 1054, and, if I remember correctly, South Bend started their Serial Numbers with numbers at 700, so my lathe is fairly early. I have no idea how many lathes, if any, they might have made _before_ they started putting Serial Numbers on them? It is basically a Model "C" since there is no quick-change gearbox (and several change gears have been lost too, unfortunately!), no fancy carriage, and, of course, has no guards of any kind. Fortunately, the "brass feed/threading plate" is still riveted to the leg. They didn't really have any kind of spindle through-bore: I think I can pass a 3/16-inch (~4.67-mm) rod through it, but that's about it.
Thank you, that was interesting
I just got a dirty but functional 1961 vintage model A from my work, paid 400 bucks. I think I got a good deal 😁
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I just acquired a 1937 9" Southbend. with a 3 1/2' bed
Mr Pete, wonder if you know if there was a connection with southbend and British Boxford as I have a Boxford BUD and there are a lot of similarities with the southbend
Thanks for sharing this.
I picked up a model B a few years ago and would be very interested in changing yje drive over to one like you have there. Maybe an idea for a future video.
I have a model c with v belt. Got it in great condition for cheap. Just didn’t have the change gears with it unfortunately
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interesting. our high school metal shop had 4 all cabinet mount. 2were tool room models and 2 were just a models. my brothers a has the thread dial like a tool room but no collets or taper attachment. i wonder does the catalog show optional accessories?
I have my grandfather's 9" model A lathe.
I just found a sears craftsman 109. Cleaned it up and it runs good.
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I think variable speed drive was available in the Monarch 10EE around WW2 era. Would love one of those.......or an HLVH. lol
I just acquired a toolroom 9in with the desk and underdrive. I have not been able to get more than a minute to get it started.
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Can the 6 speed be converted to 12? 🤔
(1/4hp & 1/3hp motors, if anyone's wondering)
Thank you very much for the videos.
Aún se puede conseguir piezas originales y refacciones de este torno ?
I have a 1937 southbend 9 lathe. They only produced the one model that year. Different wheel on back and no adjuster between the lathe and motor post. But you are missing one gear. I don’t see the 120 teeth gear. Mine has it and it is not a completely solid gear. Mine was purchased by a navy( I think Canadian not sure) for small ship use. Aside from losing a few things over the years one previous owner didn’t understand bed twist and filed the v groove on headstock.
Looks like my herchel available in the McPherson's catalogue in Australia came without motor and bench
I have a 9" 1935 Junior. You should add them to your comparison
Awesome video, as always. Do you have any experience with sheldon lathes?
Nice sweatshirt !!
Thanks for sharing 👍
I was at Grizzly Tools here in Washington yesterday looking at the current South Bend offerings.
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In name only.
@@CB.5 I agree. They are a step up from the Grizzly badged machines, but almost anything would be..
I'm watching this video with my father's South Bend 9incher staring at me. I learned the workings of this machine before learning to read. Dad used me for his "oilman". I need help finding a replacement flat belt. Any ideas?
We are sentimental old fools lol. Look on eBay for belts
Hi do you have opinions on the early Colchester Britannica lathes/
I have a 1939 South Bend and have been using it for more than 30 years. I changed to a quick change and otherwise it is like new, still use the original motor. I love it. Thanks for the video. Do you have one for bedding the drive?
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A couple of lathes together add to this would be a 2.5 ' model and a lathe with "singles step , triple- V groove drive " shown in the 1936 catalog .
Thanks
I think mine is from early 1930s . Threads on the spindle are different size from all other years.
Very nice demo. These beauties could be used as pictures in a yearly calendar. Along with some of your other interesting macines, ads, and documents. Calendar girl type calendars are now verboten anyway. PS You are still allowed to make fun of Scotts, Germans, Irish and English.
And Swedes
I just purchased a 9" Toolroom precision floor lathe, underneath motor drive, Model A, no taper attachment though. I was wondering if you installed the variable speed motor and if so, where did you get it?
I did not. The previous owner did that
I have the Model B. From somewhere between 1930-1932. I should double check the serial number.
as always great content
Hi. I just acquired what I believe to be a south bend model B 10k. Its model CL667Z. I would like to add a gear box. Can you tell me, how would I know which gear box would fit, or are they all the same by bed length?
You need to look at the parts list for that model.
Also, different bed lengths require different length lead screws
Unfortunately I don’t have the parts list. This 10k came with change gears and no quick change gear box. I don’t even know if I can add one.
thanks. i have a 4' c in pretty good shape i paid 750 for it. adjusting for inflation i guess thats not too bad. I could have bought the mini lathes with the plastic gears but it makes me cringe seeing the stories of them cracking. The old savage shotgun they made there own screws pitch. is it possible to make a copy from another screw?
A set of Mini Lathe steel gears is easy to obtain and not expensive. It will only take you a week to de-burr them before use.
HI, I would like your help. I just bought a South Bend 9 C 42 inch I believe is from the 31 era. I am looking for the right platform (if that is what it is called.) to restore this thing. I am having hard time finding any pictures of examples of what it would look like. Can you help?
You can find old South Bend catalogs on vintage machinery .org
@@mrpete222 Looks like that site is up for sale
I own an older SB 9 inch. It is catalog 82-Y. It has a gearbox and is belt drive to the rear, with cast legs. I was told that it was pre WW2, but don't have that documentation. Flat belt headstock with three steps and back gears. It does not have a taper attachment. And the original motor and countershaft are long gone. There's a wheel operated drawbar and collar for 3C collets. I've managed to find some chucks and faceplates, but have not yet had it under power as the motor and drive that's there is an abortion.
The closest pictures of the headstock, apron and gearbox are from a 1928 catalog. 9 inch, with that catalog number.
What confuses me is that while a SB 9 tailstock fits on the bed and seems the right height, it's offset to one side, so the headstock is set back differently than most.
That sounds like a pretty old machine, I am not familiar with that model. Grizzly tools, can tell you the amyear from the serial number but it cost $20.
@@mrpete222 I'm assuming it's about 1928 as the serial number is just a bit higher than one I've seen attributed to an early 1927 lathe. Bed is stamped 35910 by the way.
If I could find a decent countershaft with a flat belt pulley I can add a 3 phase motor and VFD for the drive. I recently did just that on a Habegger 102 and it's surprisingly easy. Surprisingly, most of the catalogs seem to call for a 1/4 horse motor which seems to me to be small, but I have a couple of small motors that might work already.
Thank you Sir.
Hi Mr. Pete, Wonder if you can give me some advice? I had a piece come out of my three jaw chuck and jammed the chuck, problem is I was using the quick change gearbox when it locked up and now I have a knocking noise from the gearbox even though it still operates. I suppose I have done some damage to the gearbox and wonder if there is a typical damage from such an event and whether I should take it apart to try and fix it? I don't use the lathe too much and am no expert! The lathe still works okay other than the noise.
You would have to take the gearbox off of the machine, clean it thoroughly and turn it upside down and examine it for damage. If you do not use the machine very often, don’t worry about it.
@@mrpete222 Thanks, I'll leave it for the time being...maybe one day when I have nothing to do (ha ha when will that happen!) I will tackle it. Love your channel.
Probably broke a tooth in the gearbox. As long as the bits went down, probably OK to use. But, you might get some chatter if using the power feed or threading and that feed uses that gear. Personally, I'd pull the gearbox and make sure that there's nothing floating around in there that's going to jam and do more damage. But, I'm a bit of a perfectionist on such things.
Thanks Bob. Don't use it that much and it still works, just a bit noisy..........to many other projects. 🙂@@bobmazzi7435
If a South Bend has a drill chuck only with it, can a 3 jaw Chuck and/or a 4 jaw Chuck be put into it, please?
Yes
which is better south bend or myford?
Hello Mr pete.. just got my first lathe but need some parts. It has a stamp 85979 and I was told it was a 1936 9A south bend lathe? How would I confirm this? So I can buy the right parts! Please help..
Go to vintage machinery.org.
Research some old South Bend catalog from the 30s
@@mrpete222 thanks Mr Pete..bless you!
Mr Pete or anyone...what is an engine lathe? I don't get it
Long bed southbend 9" swing. Good clean lathe. Comes with tooling, chucks, etc. he want 2000 for it catalogue #844R i think
I have an old lathe but the identification tags have been removed. I believe its a South Bend lathe. Looking to sell it but not sure what its worth. Anyway to figure it out? I live in Niles Michigan and this lathe belonged to my grandfather who lived in Mishawaka IN.
Send me a picture. Mishawaka is very close to South Bend Indiana
@@mrpete222 Here is what I have
Not sure how to attach the photos to send you
To any that may know, I've got a model C like the one in the video. Is there any way to convert the tool post from the lantern style over to something that would hold a newer style tool? thank you.
Aloris toolpost
Agreed. Aloris AXA, or clone. Feebay has loads.
Aloris also has a mini post that I've never used. They also had a model MA meant for lathes of about that size, but they are like hens teeth.
Thank you for sharing. Enjoyed.👍
Best sir