10 BOW BACKINGS "that actually work"
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- Опубликовано: 12 фев 2019
- Bow backings can be confusing.
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try my best to explain when to use what kind of bow backings. There are 3 different types of bow backings. Hard material, soft material, and organic material. Between these three categories, there are 10 backings plus that we can use but we have to use them in different situations.
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You've inspired me to try another bow. I'll try the hard backing options.
I havnt made a self bow in 2 or 3 years.. this channel may be just the thing to get my butt into gear! Thanks for these awesome videos!
Try using denim with modge podge instead of regular adhesives between layers of denim. When it sets up its almost like wood. Takes awhile to completely dry. I backed a white oak bow with this years ago and it still shoots great .
Hi Kramer, I really enjoy your videos. There are a lot of videos out there on backing with rawhide. Most people soak their rawhide in water and glue in on with titebond. A couple of us use hide glue with I feel is better and much cleaner a process. One advantage is soaking the rawhide in a thinned hide glue mixture with I do so the hide glue gets into the rawhide for a better bond. Soaking in water fills the rawhide with water, keeping glue from soaking in: forming only a surface bond. Hide glue also sets up faster so if you trim your rawhide like I do before applying, so you can get the rawhide going over the edge of the back, there's less chance of the rawhide slipping sideways when you wrap the bow. Lastly, I can use my gauze that I use to wrap sinew backed bows AND rawhide backed bows, over and over because it doesn't stick. I've made well over 100 rawhide and sinew backed bows, maybe well over that, and I've found that for me, this is by far the best and easiest way to do it. Given proper sizing and glue viscosity during the soaking process, it's like applying rawhide with contact cement: I have gone so far as rawhide backing without wrapping. If you go that far though, trim the rawhide so it goes over the edge. It dries faster along the edge and it keeps the shrinking rawhide from getting squirrelly on the back. Thank you.
I'm doing my first cinew/ rawhide backed juniper. I'm using hide glue. I always kinda figured titebond was too brittle. It's ostrich tendons I'm using.
Love watching your videos. Your enthusiasm is contagious.
great quality as usual, keep posting bro, really helps alot
Underrated Chanel subbed !!!
awesome quote from maya angelou - one of my faves
Linen works well
seen some amazing things from PMF, "poor man's fiberglass"
using just wood glue and layers of cloth.
Thanks master, very important your tips and ideas always. Greetings
So many options for the back of the bow but only one for beefing up the belly. It's messy, takes lots of work but if you're chasing those last fps it's going to help. Mælming, technique from traditional ski making but works for bows as well.
Ja,Ja,Ja ....that's life....a pleasure watching you ....!!
Awesome video, dude. Really well edited!
Kramer Ammons you’re welcome! I make tutorials about this sort of stuff so I can appreciate how much effort you put into it! Keep up the awesome work!
lol So good. Talents abound.
What do you think of fiberglass on the belly of the bow? Why would you use anything on the belly?
Going to be hitting the hardware store up for a poplar board like in the one video you made, going to try and make one for my son and myself. The backing you used in that video will be on my bow, my son would like something else so that is why I am on this video, time to see some options. Thx for the videos, God bless you and yours.
Don't use poplar man, that bow stacked up on him (its a very light wood so it has no strength in compression). Use a real dense wood and back it with something like the fiberglass or sinew.
Started watching a week ago and came across vid. Try some fishing line, I tried it for fun and it wasn’t bad. Maybe a “will it bow” episode with it.
I've made 3 bows and I'm 10 and all of them worked
Dude u r my mentor u put everything in layman's terms so we can understand I have 2 questions I'm from south Louisiana we have alot of cypress would that b gd now wood and 2 would ace bandage be gd backing for a bow
Good video bro and thanks for sharing 😯my bow. I was told that a backing is not necessary on a well made Osage bow. With other woods it’s quite important. Even on Osage it can always help and prevent a splinter from rising up. Backings like sinew can actually add some FPS to your shots. The Bowyers bible mentions how good Osage is - extremely durable, forgiving, and easy to heat bend. Lucky for me, it grows like crazy in N. Texas😁
Kramer Ammons I noticed on my bow I actually made a mistake, but it hasn’t created any issues yet. I cut string nocks on not only the sides of the tips, but along the back of the bow too. If i cut them too deep along the back, I could have cut completely through the growth ring. Now I know, this is why bowyers make tip overlays - so they can have string grooves along the back of the bow, without cutting into the growth ring, but into the overlay instead.
going to try a poplar or maple bow project.... thinking I'll use the drywall fiberglass. I'll get my string from you. jeff
@@kramerammonsarchery I went to Menards tonight and managed to find a nice piece of maple with the grain running pretty much straight through the long way parallel to the margins. Also picked up the glue you recommended and the fiberglass drywall tape. hope to start next weekend.
Have you ever used nylon string as a backing
Do you have videos making bows with hard backings?
What about synthetic sinew? Can I use that for now backing
What about synthetic sinew? Love your vids man.
I've used snakeskin over a layer of silk--applied separately.
I have this pretty awesome snakeskin. Just wondering if you have any video references to adding snakeskin for decoration?
@@kramerammonsarchery Diamondback rattlesnake.
Most important part of bow making is the wood. If a board choose carefully. There are plenty of videos out there on how to. If stave osage is very forgiving but expensive. There is plenty of ash maple oak in our woods you can start with. Practice with that. Just let the stave dry at least 3 months before attempting to make a bow.
is synthetic sinew from say micheals gonna work as well as the real deal?
Does Hunter have a channel? I would like to watch the Osage build if it is available
Hey there Kramer I have yet to hear you suggest what type of glue is best in what areas. (Example) you use an epoxy but what type and for what reasons. What glue is best for what type of bow?
Where would you categorize woven fiberglass mat
you deserve more subs man great content. have you ever managed to make a hornbow? i recently met someone who makes them and his work is amazing.
Kramer Ammons no problem. i bet you could make one judging from your knowledge. everything would come together and aid you in such an endeavor
Kramer Ammons ill be rootin you on brotha!
Is it possible to glue a wood veneer onto the drywall tape backing to cover it up?
A question can I use black walnut wood to make a bow or is it to hard.
You should try to make a pvc recurve bow
Did you see the brace height on hunters DIY bow ?
Please, test Bilbo Backings next...
Do you do like giveaways on the bows you make?
Hi god bless have a good day
Is sinew better than bamboo?
Hi,
I am looking for a material for backing bows to increase strength and flexibility, but I don't want to use products that come from animals. Are there and synthetic materials that I could use? Is it possible to use synthetic wood glue instead of animal glue?
@@kramerammonsarchery yep about fiberglass drywall tape, you might get prettier results easier going "poor man's fiberglass", is strips of cloth instead of the drywall tape, same TiteBond type 2 or 3 applied with a squeegee paddle. built up 5-6 thin layers it starts getting really strong, may even add some draw weight without adding a bunch of real weight. laid smooth will be easier to fill and sand smooth for painting, or do the top layer of cloth with a color or camo design.
another idea not done much now, a paper canoe. if you can borrow one a couple weeks, invert on saw horses, plastic wrap layers bottom up (like shingles) with thin coat vegetable oil to keep the original canoe/mold clean, it gets layered up 1/4" thick with newspaper and wood glue. after its set and popped loose, add the gunwales, corner blocks, seats and cross brace(s) with wood. so simple a child can do it, after 1/8" built up, some sanding, after 1/4" built up sand again and use couple layers cloth for the harder skin.
it just might be possible to build a recurve bow limb the same way, 5-6 layers of newspaper, a layer of cloth, then 4-5 layers newspaper, a layer of cloth, then 3-4 layers newspaper a layer of cloth... then 2-3 of paper then cloth... as it builds up to the backing its getting more cloth, then finish with 3-4 layers of cloth as its back. now... imagine taking a 56-58" long 2x12 cutting the bow shape, a positive and negative of the curve, glue some inner tube to its faces, and using many furniture clamps for the lamination process to give it some compression.
it'd take experimenting (do I start with 8-9 layers of paper first?) to come up with different approximate draw weights, cutting+clamping in the wood center handle+brace section being the "easy" part when it's strung to 2/3 or 3/4 of its strung curve, so it's not trying to suicide itself when its unstrung. the wood glue loses most of its weight when it dries, it wouldn't be horribly heavy when finished. edit: if the draw weight were wimpy starting with 5-6 layers paper, sand the belly smooth and start adding to the belly, like 6-7 layers paper then layer of cloth, then go 7-8... working it like that can make it pretty "correctable" at whim, could be a real bonus if this process is viable/doable.
What about duct-, electrical- or painters tape?
I'm looking for a board that I can make into a off hand shooter, a ELB or a flat bow if I can, I've made survival bows, but I'm thinking of boards and what backing, I tried a Osage, I made the limbs WAY too narrow 😭
Jonathan Wilfred Michelin an Osage board bow? I don't think that will work without backing unless you are very lucky and get straight grained osage boards. But otherwise, having really narrow limbs is a good thing. most of my bows have extremely narrow limbs that make up for that by getting thicker at the tips to maximize speed. I usually wrap sinew or cut a notch and then glue on wrapped flax fiber soaked in wood glue to make a nock that allows the string to sit without slipping off. or you can custom make the loops to be the exact right size so they don't slip down the bow.
I want to make a walnut bow with backing, preferably a wooden backing, would the hickory strips work for that?
Yep
Have you tried using a flat piece of PVC for backing? I think if would be a phenomonal material for backing.
How would you stick that to wood? And then why not just make a PVC pipe bow?
What about 4 or 6 oz fiberglass cloth?
Decided to back a bow with hickory. I also did the rest of the bow with hickory. It's a hickory bow. Unfortunately.
im making a bow from leopard wood, Libidibia ferrea you should try this wood
Seriously...TRY SELF FUSING TAPE !
I've just tested a bow where I used it. I used it because I was ready to throw the bow away. It had a completely terminal hinge near the handle. I glued a wafer thin sliver of the parent wood to the belly, then wrapped it it self-fusing tape. That bow has just been tested and it shoots !
The tape seems good for EITHER the belly OR the back. It can handle both extension and compression.
I may even experiment wrapping the whole bow with it, just to see if it works.
can i use sofa leather?thank you
If it’s your neighbor’s sofa you should.
What can you tell me about using wide carbon fiber yarn as a backing? I have a coil that is normally used to reinforce sailboat sails and I think it could work well too, although it is extremely rigid. What do you think about it, thank you very much. thanks¡¡
They make limbs entirely of carbon fiber, they are typically minimal deflection. It will work but it’s going to add a lot of draw weight to your bow, and if it’s too thick it’s could cause issues on the belly (extra compression). Unless it’s paper thin I’d avoid it, that is unless you have a large supply and want to experiment. You might be able to make a very thin limbed wood bow with it and that could be something unique. If it’s thicker than 1/16 I’d choose a good wood for belly compression and play around with it as an experiment, it would be more a hybrid limb at that point since you would be getting soo much of the draw weight from the fiber it wouldn’t really be “backing”.
Carbon fiber doesn’t like to stretch much, so I’d also go with a longer bow to minimize your issues, more length makes stiffer limbs less of an issue. Hope this helps.
Need affiliate links for the backing materials....
Did you ever tried artificial sinew ??
I'm now trying 3 layers of stretchy old jeans I have
And soaking it in glue
It get hard when it dry but it split of the wood so I will try scratch the wood and try again
Ever try to use Wood Veneer edge banding strips to back a bow?
I had this idea a bit ago. Haven’t tried it because I can’t find the non preglued, but if you’ve tried it let me know
I've thought about this as well. Did you ever try it? thanks
Linen actually work?
Bamboo with linen...
Which is stronger?
And for bamboo,
The young tree (green bamboo)? or the old tree (yellow bamboo)?
I tried to make a bow out of a hockey stick. I was almost done, but I went just a bit too fast and it broke. But I could stretch it to almost 26 inches. Talking about backing a bow: Do you use fiberglass tape or just plain fiberglass? I used fiberglass tape and my bow was very powerful. But I noticed that the tape was starting to split from the bow, even though I glued it.
Thanks for your answer Kramer. You had a fair influence on me! I am now completing my fourth bow and I do understand the utmost importance of tillering amd TAKING OUR TIME. All the credit goes to you and your passion for bows. THANKS A LOT! (M.G.,Quebec, Canada)
Should you put the backing on before you start tillering ?
I'm doing my first bow and it's black locust..... I don't want it to break on tillering hahaha
Other than the obvious harvesting sinew yourself where can a beginner go to get some?
I have a longbow with glass on the back and the belly. It is 69 lbs at 28 inches. I have a 30 inch draw. After the formula and the math it is 82 lbs at 30 inches. Thats too much draw for this old guy. Do you think I could safely remove the belly glass to reduce the draw weight to 60 lbs or something like that?
Kramer Ammons, can I ask you a question. If I use fiber glass tape on the same kind of board you used in your board bow video, I am not chasing a growth ring right? Won't my bow break faster because I use a soft material for my backing? And would you know where to buy bamboo strips?
Kind regards, Jannes.
the drywall tape, or cloth (poor man's fiberglass) gets pretty darn HARD when locked up with the wood glue, so its not really a "softer" material when its done.
Hey, I am guessing that maybe not all regions are the same? I can get bamboo in many areas where I live. I just have to look for it.
Try Home Depot etc.. Have a look in the gardening section for a bamboo pole or a set of bamboo blinds in the curtain section.
@@modelnutty6503 okay, thank you for your answer!!
@@stegmonjurvinweirdt1834 I live in the netherlands, bamboo unfortunately is not really common here...
Hummm. How about a bow with sinew and rawhide?
Consider Kevlar, stretchier than carbon fiber, in polyester or epoxy.
Kramer Ammons , didn’t think you would be watching something this old. There is something else you can delve into. Look up the chart of bimetal materials, you will find that temp has the least affect on carbon fiber and most on fir, so if you put those two together the bow would change significantly with temp change.
FOUND IT! yes dog bone.
Wait....did you say sinew isn't good for horn bows?
i think you should judge them by flexibility
Content begins at like 1:40.
Do it yourself, visit the Woodglut website and find out how.
You completely ignored carbon fiber for bow backing.
Bow builder's are pricing their self out of work anyone can build a bow same thing goes for arrow makers with a little effort anyone can build.......
Depends on the amount of time $700-$1000 for a custom bow. By the time you add materials , labour cost , warranties , admin time , medical , holiday pay etc... Most would most likely earn more in a trade as plumber , carpenter , electrician etc... There is a reason why Chinese bows are cheap AVG wage is around $100 a week and the work week is way longer than 38hours.
tooo much talk
What did you expect from a video teaching us about bow backings?
No showing. Talking blah, blah talking
Where are the "how to put backing on a bow instead of talking!